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The Working Mums Podcast
Teaching working mums mind & emotional management tools so they enjoy their kids, their job & themselves again without all the shitty mum guilt.
The Working Mums Podcast
Ep #62 - Curiosity Creates Connection: How to Be a True Ally for Disabled Colleagues
When was the last time you genuinely asked someone with a disability what they needed to succeed? In this eye-opening conversation, Sarah Petherbridge shares her journey as a profoundly deaf professional navigating workplace challenges with growing emotional resilience.
Sarah's story highlights the powerful shift from the outdated "medical model" of disability—where individuals were expected to "fix themselves"—to the empowering "social model" that recognises external barriers as the true disablers. "We're not disabled by our disability," Sarah explains, "but by the barriers in the workplace that are disabling us." This perspective transforms how disabled employees advocate for themselves and how colleagues can become meaningful allies.
The heart of this episode explores what true allyship looks like. Sarah defines an ally beautifully as "someone who has your back"—a person who intentionally includes rather than unintentionally excludes. She emphasizes that being an ally doesn't require perfection, just willingness: "You don't need to be perfect from the start, but you can make a start and just ask the right questions." Simple questions like "How can I help you?" demonstrate genuine care and open pathways to meaningful support.
We discuss how emotional resilience helps disabled professionals set healthy boundaries, advocate for accommodations, and overcome the "low-level anxiety" of navigating a world not designed for them. Sarah reflects how developing self-compassion transformed her relationship with past workplace challenges: "It's about not blaming myself for what happened... giving myself more compassion and understanding."
For leaders and organizations, Sarah offers practical guidance for creating inclusive environments through personal storytelling, awareness training, and making disability a comfortable rather than taboo topic. The business case is clear—inclusive workplaces enable everyone to contribute their best work.
Whether you have a disability, work alongside disabled colleagues, or simply want to become a more compassionate human, this conversation offers invaluable insights into creating workplaces where everyone can thrive through curiosity, empathy, and emotional resilience.
You can also watch this episode on YouTube with Captions - https://www.youtube.com/@TheWorkingMumsLifeCoach
If you'd like to have a chat about how I can help you further, please don't hesitate to click here & book a time with me, I'd love to meet you.
You can also follow me on IG @NickyBevan_LifeCoach
Welcome, welcome, welcome, my friends, to this week's podcast, and I have with me a very special guest today. I've got the beautiful Sarah Petherbridge, who is well. Actually, I'm going to let Sarah introduce herself in just a second, but for those of you that are watching us on YouTube, you will notice that my background is somewhat different, because I'm in my lounge and I just have to point out that this huge Snorlax teddy in the corner is not my choice of interior design. It's my son's. He loves it, I go with it, but it takes up a lot of space. So so please do excuse the uh, the, the not quite so put together background, but that's not what we're here to talk about. We are here to talk about Sarah and how emotional resilience has really helped her move forward in the workplace. So, sarah, would you like to introduce yourself please?
Speaker 2:Yeah, hello, please. Yeah, hello everyone. It's a real pleasure to be here today to talk with you, nikki, and thank you for inviting me to this podcast. So just to give you a bit of background information about myself. So I was born profoundly deaf and my communication style is oral, so I speak and I lip read. So I do know some sort of sign language, but I'm not fluent in sign language, so I do have a bit of a deaf accident, so hopefully I'll be able to understand me okay. So I had a corporate career for many years and I left that career about four years ago now I can't believe just how quickly time flies. So, yes, it'll be four years this month actually. And then I started my own business. So I actually provide disability awareness training, helping businesses create inclusive workplaces for disabled people, and I also am a public speaker on disability and inclusion, really loving my business and really pleased to be here today about Emotional Resilience with Nikki.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you so much. So we are really going to focus today's conversation all about emotional resilience and good mental well-being in the workplace, especially when it comes to people with disabilities, because Sarah and I have had some really incredible conversations around how, if someone's feeling a little bit insecure in themselves, how to actually ask somebody who might have a disability, what do you need? Or help me understand. Or you know, it takes a bit of a confidence to be able to do that, and I think most people shy away from the unknown. As human nature, we tend to just kind of we avoid, don't we? We kind of avoid, turn away and shy away from the unknown and which then inadvertently creates this disconnection, unsupportive environment, especially if that's on a leadership or management level. Um, so that's what we're going to focus our conversation on. It's not scripted.
Speaker 2:I have no questions in mind to ask you, but I think I would like to start with if you, if you're just willing to tell us your story about your experience and we'll go from there yeah, and I think when I look back on my career, I think it's probably fair to say that I could have done with your coaching on emotionally resilient at the start of my career. I think it would have made a huge difference on how I navigated my way around the workplace in a corporate environment way around the workplace in a corporate environment. I think for me, just looking back on my personal story, I think not having the emotional resilience and also the confidence to actually ask for help when I needed more support in the workplace. Also, stetson, setting boundaries as well, I think that's really important. So knowing when to set clear boundaries to actually protect your mental well-being, especially with your disability, knowing when to say no rather than say yes to everything and barely coping. Also, I think if I had more emotional resilience, I would have learned not to internalize other people's behaviors and language that can be discriminatory and not inclusive. So I would have learned not to internalize what we call ableism, which is a form of discrimination against disabled people. I certainly would have had more resilience against barriers in general and having that confidence to ask more help when I needed it to bring down those barriers, and also I would have learned to take back control of the situation I was in when I felt that my needs weren't being met. You know, sort of looking at the situation and rather than just sort of letting things rumble on and my needs are not being met, I would have certainly been more assertive and taking control of that situation and actually asking for more support. So just having that confidence to say hang on a minute, you know I'm really struggling here, I need more support. So I kind of look back on all of these things. But I've also got to remember that at the start of my career the environment was so different to how it is now there wasn't anything like disability awareness back then. Like disability awareness back then.
Speaker 2:I was working under what we call the medical model of disability. That's a perception of disability where they say that you are disabled because of your disability, so the problem very much lies with you as an individual. So you have to be fixed, you know, and nothing else. And what happened under that model means that you know there's no awareness of the barriers in the workplace, there's no concept of workplace adjustment to help bring down those barriers. So if you're working under that model you're not going to have very much confidence to ask for help because you think it's me. You know I've got to fix myself, I've got to 15, so I think the environment certainly didn't help in building your confidence and your emotional resilience. But over time that model has turned to what we call the social model of disability, where we would say that we're not disabled by disability but by the barriers in the workplace. It's the barriers that are disabling us.
Speaker 2:I think under that model you can actually have more power to say hang on a minute, I can't do the job, not because I'm deaf, but because there are no captions or there are no subtitles, or you know there's no subtitles or you know there's no sign language interpreter. The problem isn't me, the problem is because there are barriers out there stopping me from doing my work. Yeah, and I think under that model you're going to have, hopefully, more confidence and more emotional resilience to say hang on a minute. I need more support and I think you know.
Speaker 2:I think that's why it's so important that younger people this is showing my age now that younger people who are disabled must have emotional resilience and the confidence to say look, you know, I need to work in an environment that is accessible and inclusive and actually put your hands up and say look, I'm really, really struggling here. I need more help and support. So when you were saying that you were doing workshops for emotional resilience, I just thought that sounds brilliant, you know, and I think it'd be really powerful if you can do those sort of workshops for people with disability.
Speaker 1:I don't know what you think about that, nikki?
Speaker 1:yeah. Well, I mean, I'm willing to help anybody. I suppose my limiting belief comes up then in the sense of well, how could I talk on behalf of someone with a disability? Because I I don't have, so I don't know what I don't know, which I think is then really interesting how, when, like I've, I've really appreciated the opportunity to work with you and learn from you and have you in my life, because it's opened up my awareness to a whole other, um, way of living, really isn't it? And how we take so much for granted, and how I'm really curious and and hopefully my listeners are too about how we can, like, what can I do as a way of educating myself, and I want to say kind of doing the right thing by somebody and I guess everybody's different, but I would be curious to hear from you, like what do you think, from your lived experience, is the most like compassionate and amazing thing someone could do for you?
Speaker 2:um, yeah, this is interesting actually, because I've just had a weekend with some friends and, you know, something didn't work so well and something did, and I've been reflecting on that this morning and it kind of ties into your question of how can you be that supportive, compassionate, ally? Yeah, thanks, but it's all about being an ally, isn't it? Yeah, with a disability, and I think for me, it's all about, you know, practicing empathy. I think that's really important, you know, really taking the time out to listen to our issues and live experiences, trying to understand them and supporting. So I think you know, sort of really listen to us and education yourself at the same time. You know, and with empathy, some of us have it in bucket. Some of us are very empathetic by nature, but others less so. But you can actually work on it, you can develop it, and I think, you know, for people with disabilities or disabled people, empathy is incredibly important because you know we live in a world that is not built for disabled people, you know we have lots of barriers.
Speaker 2:Every day we almost live with what we call low-level anxiety, you know, trying to sort of navigate all these barriers. So if you, you know, if you're being empathetic and curious, you know, I think being curious is really important. There are no judgments involved. You know, if you're being empathetic and curious, you know, I think being curious is really important yeah no judgments involved.
Speaker 2:You know no bias or judgment. Being curious, so asking the right questions, you know. Ask us are you okay? How can I help you? Yeah, um know, it doesn't have to be perfect. You know you don't need to be perfect from the start, but you can actually make a start and just ask the right questions, learn about our disability. You know be empathetic and also just be respectful in your language as well, and I think you know treat it how you want to be treated yeah with respect.
Speaker 2:You know, love and empathy, and I think that little thing goes a really long way because it makes us feel seen and heard. You know, and I think sometimes we can feel a bit ignored. You know, especially with regards to our needs. What do we need, you know, and asking us, what do you need to be able to, you know, go somewhere, or even like go into a restaurant and ask what's the best place for you to sit in my case so that I can look good as everyone, what's the best place for you to sit in my case so that I can lip-lose everyone, and it's just that you know that thought process in the brain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the most important thing is you have to um intentionally include them yeah and and I think otherwise, it's very easy to unintentionally exclude them. Yeah, and I think if you think about it and intentionally include someone like me, then you know you're on the way to being a compassionate and supportive ally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just give, just let tell me what your description of ally is, what's your definition of an ally?
Speaker 2:I think for me, an ally is someone who has your back.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:You know that thing. You know, and I actually said that to one of my friends this weekend, you know. I said we were talking about, you know what was going on in their lives and so on, and from talking with her, it's a feeling I felt she had my back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I felt that she would make sure that I was included and supported, that she was thinking about my needs and what I needed, and I think also in the workplace, I think they would make sure that you're included in the workplace, that your support is in your job. They would proactively provide you with that support. So you know they have to ask all the time. They also helped to create that inclusive workplace by way of intentional inclusive behaviour, you know every day, and they also help to create that really important safe space in the workplace. Yeah, and you know it's really important to have that safe space because Otherwise we're not going to feel we belong. Yeah, we don't feel we can be our authentic self and certainly we wouldn't be able to open up and share our story about our disability and get the help that we need. So I think our lives play a big part in creating that really important safe space where we can actually open up, talk about our disability and get the help that we need.
Speaker 2:So I think they play a big part in that as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and I think that's that's where the emotional resilience comes in, because I think it's so easy to, when we're faced with something that we don't know or is unknown to us, or that we don't understand as humans, it's really easy to just say nothing.
Speaker 1:It's like I don't want to offend anybody, I don't want to ask the wrong question, so I won't say anything, and we can. I think we can apply this to all different scenarios. I'm thinking, you know, if someone's just lost someone and you don't know what to say to them, so you avoid them completely because you don't want that discomfort of the awkward conversation. Whereas when we build our emotional resilience skill and I love how you use the word curiosity if we do that from real compassion and real love and be willing to be uncomfortable ourselves because that's what I really think emotional resilience comes down to it's not being frightened of discomfort Then we can have that really compassionate loving. I may not say the right words in the right way, but what do you need? Like help me understand how I can support you, because I'm guessing every person with disability is different.
Speaker 2:Everybody's needs are different because every human is unique anyway absolutely yeah, and I think people make the mistake of of making the wrong assumption so they think that they know what we need or or what we can, our abilities to do our job.
Speaker 2:And I think the most important thing you can do as an ally is to avoid making those wrong assumptions. And the way of doing that is to be curious and ask the right question, but not to be afraid to ask those questions. If you get it wrong in terms of language or the questions that you, you know ask, we'll just educate you, you know, tell you, yeah, you know how to say the right thing, so that you can learn for the next time. So we're not going to bite if you get it wrong, but I think it's better that you do ask the question, because if you don't ask the question, you kind of feel that, oh, we're not really interested in helping yeah yeah and and I suppose that works both ways, doesn't it is the person with the disability also getting curious.
Speaker 1:Oh, I wonder why that person's behaving that way. Because we can instantly jump to oh, they don't care, they're not inclusive, they're grumpy or miserable or arrogant or whatever. But actually the reason that that person's behaving that way might be because they're really uncomfortable. So it might be. Do you know what I mean? It's also getting curious on both parts, isn't it? And being willing to have that kind of effective, open conversation, that then benefits both, especially in the workplace, benefits both people. Because you know, we kind of get to choose our friends, we don't get to choose our colleagues. So how do you think so, if there's someone listening and they work in a team or they work for an organization and they, they realize that they've got maybe a unintentionally, a bit of a culture of kind of avoidance and not having those challenging conversations and I think again about all topics actually, not just disabilities what would, what would you sort of say to that individual, say to that business, as a way of kind of helping them become better allies in the workplace?
Speaker 2:I mean, I would probably say that they perhaps want to. Suggestion would be to bring someone in like myself with lived experiences but actually talk to them about disability, but also from my personal experience, because I think if you share your personal story it becomes more relatable and I think it can also give us the light bulb moments and people. So if you tell people, um, for example, how that makes me feel, if you do this because how it makes me feel, then hopefully that would generate a light bulb moment in them and that will start their awareness journey. So I think they need to go on a journey with this and it. It can take a while, it's not going to be perfect twist away, but they need to make a start on that journey and, you know, educating themselves, being made more aware.
Speaker 2:One way of doing that would be to bring somebody like me to do a workshop. You know, just talk about disability awareness in general, yeah, and you know, for example, what do we mean by disability, and just sharing my personal stories. And I think they can do that for others to know it's not necessarily disability, you know, they can talk about what it's like from you know, for working mums, for example, and I think sharing personal stories is really powerful and it can give rise to people, you know, thinking oh my goodness, I didn't realize how that made that person feel. You know I need to change my behaviour, I need to be more inclusive. So I think that's the way of educating people, but also on an organisation level. You know you can talk about awareness, whether that's disability awareness or, you know, race awareness. You can just talk about it on an organisation level so that it's out there.
Speaker 2:It's not like a taboo subject. Yeah, it's not a subject that is uncomfortable, it's out there. It's an important part of the workplace culture. You know People can see that. You know people are talking about it all the time. So I think that could be a really good way of educating your colleagues in the workplace. Yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 1:And having done this work for yourself. Now then, Sarah, having built your emotional resilience and worked on your mental health, what do you think has been the biggest gift that you've given yourself?
Speaker 2:um, I think there are lots, of, lots of gifts. I think for me, it's about, um, not blaming myself for what happened, um, and not feeling ashamed, um and not and yeah, just not beating myself up about what happened, like the start of my career, you know, giving myself more compassion and understanding and actually saying to myself as if I was saying to a friend well, of course you felt like this. It's not surprising that you felt like this because, for example, the environment wasn't inclusive, there wasn't much deaf awareness back then. You know and you know. So you know, of course you were frustrated, of course you sort of found things really hard. So I think I was. I started you sort of talk to myself like if I was talking to a friend.
Speaker 2:You're going through similar things and I think, you know, giving myself compassion and kindness. But also, I think, for me is I've become much more assertive in terms of certain boundaries yeah, it's all about boundaries for me and looking after my mental health first, my mental well-being first, yeah. But also, you know, I've learned to be more compassionate towards others as well and be more empathetic towards others, because I think if you've gone through some really challenging times in your life, it can help make you be a better person, more empathetic person, so you can actually help other people as well. Yeah, yeah. So I think you know, for me, it's all about understanding me better as a person, based on what I've been through, but also helping other people, you know, with more empathy and compassion.
Speaker 1:I love that because it does always start with us and it is, it is kind of us, especially in the workplace with leaders. It is. It starts with us building our emotional resilience, building our self-confidence and really being willing to step into that compassionate curiosity that starts with our relationship with ourselves first, and once we start having that compassion internally, it's so much easier to do it externally. And then you get to influence your, your, your people that are around you. And because unfortunately, we don't get to control other humans, wouldn't it be nice if we could, but we can't? But we do have a huge influence based on wouldn't it be nice if we could, but we can't? But we do have a huge influence based on how we show up and how we behave and how we conduct ourselves so when we?
Speaker 1:approach something or someone with a compassionate curiosity. We are also inviting everybody else to do the same, and in the workplace. I think that is just so much more effective.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and it's just created a better and more supportive and inclusive workplace. Exactly, it's not just spiralled.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then you get the brilliance out of all of your people.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and it makes great business sense because if you are working in an inclusive workplace where people are sort of practising compassion and support, people are going to be able to be more productive and they're going to perform better. So it's going to help the business. So it makes good business sense to have that sort of environment in the workplace yeah, yeah, 100, and love sometimes sounds like no.
Speaker 1:so sometimes it's having that emotional resilience to set that boundary and go no, or this is how I this is what the support I need in order to do my job to the best of my ability, because that's what I really want to do so we can have those kind of you know, we can set those boundaries from a place of real love. It doesn't have to be then that we take on everybody's everything.
Speaker 2:No, no, absolutely not, and I think that for me as well, another thing I've learned is that I'm only responsible for my own behavior and how I show it, and it's not taking on responsibility for other people's behavior. And then there was there was one incident that happened over the weekend and I really had to stop myself from actually reaching out and know being responsible for another person's behaviour. I kind of said to myself no, they can do it themselves and I need to step back. I think that's another thing I've learned big time as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing. I'm celebrating you so much. I'm so grateful that you are even in my world because I just think you're the most incredible person and if you ever get a chance to meet Sarah, she definitely get her in to do your workshops. If you work in a team, but you just have the most amazing light. I know we're talking virtually now, but I love it when we get together. We have lunch, we have a coffee and just being in your presence I just think you're just so gorgeous.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. Well, you've been brilliant in my life. It's really helped to turn my life around. As you know, I wasn't in a great place when I first met you, but what we did together really helped to turn my life around and be more aware of my thoughts and my emotions and how they can influence my action and my responses. So, yeah, I mean, you know, it's been brilliant working with you too, nikki.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you, and long may it continue that we have this beautiful relationship. It doesn't end, does it?
Speaker 2:No, definitely not. I think we need to do a workshop together.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, oh my gosh, let's talk about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can talk about emotionally resilient in general, and I can put a layer of disability on top.
Speaker 1:I would love to do that, and the world needs it, I think absolutely in our in our, with our love and our tone of voice. I think the world needs it. So, um, on that note, if people do want to get in touch with you, we will put all your links in the show notes. Anyway, sarah, but what is the best place for people? Where is the best place for people to find you?
Speaker 2:Well, it's our website. It's sarahangelscorepepperbridge at yahoocouk so you can have a look and see what I do. There's more information about my business on there and also there's a contact point on that website so you can actually send a website inquiry. So LinkedIn I'm on LinkedIn, so send me a message on LinkedIn. And also on LinkedIn, there's my email address as well. I think it's.
Speaker 1:I'm not very good with my memory, but it's on there. We don't often email ourselves. Brain box, brain box.
Speaker 2:But it's on my LinkedIn. You can contact me through my email address there. But you know there's lots of ways you can get hold of me and do reach out and I'd be more than happy to help you yeah, amazing, and we will all put those links below.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, come and uh, come and chat to sarah and her linkedin posts are really educational, if you're like, if you're, um, if you want to learn more about how to be a better ally, whether it's in the workplace or personally. Sarah's posts are really insightful and they just get you thinking in a way that you have no idea how someone else would. I'm just, I'm just how do I word it? Because we, because we all assume that everybody's experiencing life the way we're experiencing it, because that's all we know. But reading your post just gives, opens up my awareness to how someone else might be experiencing exactly the same circumstance, but in a very different way. Um, so I love following you on Instagram for, sorry, on LinkedIn for that reason.
Speaker 2:I think it's just amazing, so thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you so much and have a wonderful. Was there actually? Before I end it, was there anything else that you wanted to say that we haven't covered?
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so. I think I've covered all the main points. But you know, over the days of people, you know, do start with your disability journey. It's not that scary, we're not scary people and we're happy with the journey, um, but please, you know, we need you more than ever yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're welcome. Well, thank you very much for being here. Have a wonderful week, everybody, and I'll speak to you all next week. Bye.