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The Working Mums Podcast
Teaching working mums mind & emotional management tools so they enjoy their kids, their job & themselves again without all the shitty mum guilt.
The Working Mums Podcast
EP #66 - What Happens When You Choose to Heal at 79?
At what age do we become too old for personal transformation? According to Richard Hulley, a retired naval officer who began coaching at 79, that limit simply doesn't exist.
Richard's journey begins unexpectedly through an NHS diabetes course that evolved into a profound exploration of his mind. Growing up in what he calls an "Edwardian upbringing" where emotions weren't discussed, Richard initially couldn't even identify his feelings when presented with lists of emotions. "I didn't know I had emotions. I certainly couldn't describe them," he shares with remarkable candor.
What unfolds over a year of intensive coaching is nothing short of extraordinary. Richard gradually confronts decades of accumulated guilt, learns to understand unconditional love (a concept that took 42 sessions to fully grasp), and develops boundaries—what he now considers his most valuable tool. The process wasn't easy; Richard describes it as "terrifying" and "challenging," yet the results speak volumes: "I am me now. I'm not someone carrying guilt and shame and worries that I can do nothing about."
Most striking is how Richard's transformation occurred without any external circumstances changing. Same home, (although the cats are new), entirely different experience of life. Now 82, Richard continues monthly coaching sessions and reports being more confident, thoughtful, and genuinely happier. Perhaps most profound is his newfound peace with mortality, concluding that "if one is happy in this world, you just take it into the next one."
Whether you're 28 or 78, Richard's story challenges us to question what's possible when we're willing to explore our minds with courage and persistence. What emotional weights might you be carrying that could be set down? What transformation awaits when you're ready to do the work?
You can also watch this episode on YouTube with Captions - https://www.youtube.com/@TheWorkingMumsLifeCoach
If you'd like to have a chat about how I can help you further, please don't hesitate to click here & book a time with me, I'd love to meet you.
You can also follow me on IG @NickyBevan_LifeCoach
Welcome, welcome, welcome, my friends, to this week's podcast, and I have one of my although I shouldn't say this favorite clients with me today talking, who is not a working mom, actually the complete opposite of a working mom. He is a retired naval officer. I'm sure I haven't used the right title, but what's very funny I have to tell you this before we get going is that I came onto our call with Richard, my client today, thinking it was a normal coaching call. So, off, I went into my normal coaching spiel and Richard, looking a bit confused, said to me but Nikki, aren't we doing the podcast interview today? So that's going to be the theme of our conversation.
Speaker 1:We the reason I've invited Richard particularly to come and talk to me is because I feel so, really, so very, very honored, richard, to have you as a client, because so many people say to me, oh, I'm too old and they're like in their 40s or their 50s, and you are not. That and your willingness to explore your mind and explore your emotions at 79, I think you were when we met I just think it's the most incredible thing ever. So do you want to? Ladies and gentlemen, I have with me today Richard Hulley. He's a poet. He's an amazing human. Do you want to tell us a little bit about why you started coaching with me, richard?
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, let me start off by saying I'm not a poet, I'm um. Otherwise I might get um, I might disappoint a lot of people. I do verse every now and then and I try and make people laugh. Okay, there's this wonderful expression from one of frank sinatra's songs where he's in the autumn of his life.
Speaker 2:And I got to what I thought was the autumn of my life and I had to be frank, my mind was a bit of a mess. I thought I had feelings of guilt, I had upset feelings about things I'd learned or seen over the years and I didn't think I'd like to go through the autumn carrying this weight into the next life. And I came across you by accident, um, and it was a sweet thing really, because I was on this course, nhs course about how to combat type 2 diabetes, not that I was a pre-diabetic, but I was on the course willy-nilly and someone mentioned your name and I followed it up and and we did the, the sugar bit, the, the six, six visits on on sugar, which, incidentally, that worked, although I do cheat a bit every now and then. Of course, I can't, I can't say what we use, the word we used when you, we did break the rules every now and then we um oh, you can say it, this is a sweary.
Speaker 1:We, we have fuck it moments oh, all right.
Speaker 2:Well, I do occasionally have fuck it moments, moments, and at the end of that, because of the process it seemed that you use, it seemed universal. It could be applicable to all sorts of things. You know, for instance, your, your mantra and circumstance and thoughts and feeling, and feelings aren't facts, and so on. Um, and so I asked about other things and you said, yes, we can do that. And then so we then embarked embarked on a year-long investigation, and I just find the process very challenging. I mean, I didn't know I had emotions. I certainly couldn't describe them. Yeah, I remember I had four sheets of different emotions and I didn't recognize any of them applying to me. And you took me through that process from A to Z, talking about the main features of what I considered to be my for want of a better word hang-ups, and that was the beginning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was fascinating and I think one of the two of the we don't need to go into the reasons why, but two of the biggest emotions that I think we looked at one was guilt, yeah, and in various different scenarios actually, and then the other was we did a lot of work around love, didn't we? Yes, and actually creating love, because you were like what?
Speaker 2:I couldn't comprehend unconditional love, and it was a major factor in the process and, uh, uh, it took a long time and it wasn't before the the end, 40, week 42, that I I actually got there. Um, and it's all applicable now. And that's true about all the things that, all your methods. They are applicable in daily life and I think I follow most of them and one is happier for it. I think the other thing was that because of your methods, one was able to go way back in time, that because of your methods, one was able to go way back in time. We even went back to when I was 15 and a half at HMS Ganges and things that had lodged in my mind then, and here I was, 70 odd years later, regurgitating them as factors that are affecting my life today.
Speaker 2:Yes, then, but not now. And that's the thing, the process. It took the year. I don't think it could have been done in less than that. What else do I think? I think it's the language of the mind and the language of relationships, not something one is commonly in touch with, especially with the people one associates with who aren't similarly involved.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's not really something we talk about much really, especially men, and I would imagine you're well being in the the Navy for the length of time that you were and then business. It's just not really something that men talk about.
Speaker 2:No, definitely not, and that's you know. I guess that's because we have a sort of one's had a sort of Edwardian upbringing, because we have a sort of one's had a sort of Edwardian upbringing, and our fathers were in the war and they didn't talk about it. And I remember on occasion, many years ago, many, many years ago, going up to visit a friend and we were just about to enter his house and he said um, by the way, my uncle's there don't mention the war and uh, don't mention the wars. It had a real meaning in that case. It wasn't a joke, you know. Yes, this man was very susceptible to the memories and anything might well trigger a reaction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm curious, because now we're three years down the line. So we coached intensively, didn't we? For a year, and then we've been meeting monthly ever since just to keep you on top of your mind management, because it is. I do think it's a skill that once you learn you it's a bit like cooking once you learn how to cook, you still then have to do it daily in order to have food put in front of you, um, or you buy in your trays, I separate them up and put them in the oven could be, class is cooking, um. But I'm curious, what do you think has been the biggest impact on your life through the coaching?
Speaker 2:Oh, biggest. I think a lot of it is keywords, isn't it? I think the biggest is boundaries. It's one of the biggest. There's quite a few. Biggest Boundaries makes you stop and think and say what do I want out of this, what does this mean to me, and and how can I walk away from this and feel satisfied and happy and not be overtaken by events that I can't change or or make better? Yeah, um, and establishing those early on in relationships and with existing ones, um, again frees your mind from unnecessary angst. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, what has been the impact on your life, having done that for yourself?
Speaker 2:Well, that in particular or the whole thing, of course is, you know, I greet the day in a completely different way. I'm happy and I'm not carrying a huge weight on my shoulders like I was. Whether or not I was showing it, I don't know, but that's the difference. I am me now. I am a different person. I'm not someone carrying guilt and shame and all sorts of things and worries that I can't do nothing about.
Speaker 1:That's so incredible, and isn't it fascinating how, in your physical environment, other than your two cats, nothing changed. So your past didn't change, your current external circumstances didn't change, but the fact that you worked and learned the skill of changing your mind and managing your emotions fundamentally changed your experience of your life.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and it's a very happy feeling and, as I say, it's like a huge weight being lifted from your shoulders and it also must make me outwardly, to other people, better, because I am definitely much more, I think, much kinder and much more caring and much more interested in other people and the things that are going on than the two. So it has downstream effects which are very beneficial to not just me but to other people. But also you have the. You know, if you want to do something, do it, which are very beneficial to not just me but to other people. Yeah, but also you have the. You know, if you want to do something, do it, and you make sure one does it, like menu planning and financial thingy, bobs and so on, even if they are very tiresome, which is all very helpful, which eases the flow of the daily life yeah, that's so good.
Speaker 1:So are you? Are you pleased you made this investment into coaching?
Speaker 2:yes, very much so. And if I could be a disciple and sell it to everyone, I know I would. But if you could see what's going through my mind when I talk to some people, I think, oh my God, you do need help, you really do. And I've got the answer. But the question never comes up and even if it is, it has done once or twice, I'd say it's always ignored. People don't recognize the benefit and I guess I wouldn't have done if it hadn't been for sugar yeah, yeah, it is interesting that that's where it all started, isn't it so?
Speaker 1:so it's fascinating, isn't it? With the helping people, because and that's that's when unconditional love steps in and we get to love we get to choose to love them in spite of their desire to not change or their willingness to moan but never actually do anything about the situation. That's when unconditional love really benefits us.
Speaker 2:And the other thing to get slightly more it could be more morbid, I mean going beyond the autumn of your one's years, it's, it's going into the next life. I was, um, spending some time working out on preparation for um the next world and having talks with my bigger friend and so on, and after studying all sorts of texts, religious and other, I fell back on the mantra and what was a fact and what was a feeling, and I came to the conclusion that if, if one is happy in this world, you just take it into the next one and uh, and that that's that reduced the debate to it's time for a sherry and I love that for you so much, because a lot of people we do.
Speaker 1:Death is something that we do fear as a society generally, isn't it? And yet the way that you now see that time, which is still hopefully many happy, healthy, pain-free years away, it is an inevitable part of our existence. It is an inevitable part of our existence. We are born and we will die, and what we do in between is a choice. Not that everybody realizes they have a choice, but to be able to come to terms with and be content and happy in this life means that you will be content and happy in the next whatever. Whatever listeners choose to think, the next means heaven. Whatever it's it, it just calms everything down, I feel yeah it um reduces the uncertainty in your mind yeah yeah, I always remember my dear father-in-law as he got older.
Speaker 2:We'd go to the pub whenever I went to see him and every now and then he would talk about he's getting that point in his life where he thinks about the next life, about the next life, and he was hoping that he had been worthy of the next life. And I think I was only about 20 when I heard that sort of thing and I often wondered what it meant. And now I understand it in my own way. Yeah, but I don't think he ever got to understand it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He was always wondering.
Speaker 1:So, out of the the work that we have done together over relationships, menu planning, sugar cravings, time management, um dealing with other people in all different family, friends, complete strangers in the street what do you think has been your um I want to say favorite, but I don't think you would call it favorite because I'm not sure that any of it, whilst it's been impactful and very beneficial, has, like you said, it's been challenging um. What do you think is your favourite tool?
Speaker 2:I suppose that you keep going back to, if any, oh, definitely, as I mentioned, I think boundaries is definitely one, manuals as well, through the self-coaching section we did that was good. And then bits about one's mind what was it? The emotional child and the emotional added adult? Yeah, there are applications all the time in many of the thoughts that one has, um, but I think the basic one is the. But I think the basic one is the crunch circumstance, thought, feeling, action and result. I think that that's if you can get the question right at the beginning, or sorry, circumstance, um, uh, it works. If you um, you know you haven't got the right question. If you, if you do the process and you don't get an answer, you have to go back, get the circumstance right.
Speaker 1:The question yeah, yeah, that's. And in your interpretation, what do you think a boundary is? Silence, richard did said to me at the beginning of this what if I don't know what to say? That this is not a quiz, by the way. There's no right or wrong answer. I'm just curious as to how you would explain what a boundary is. When we say boundary, obviously you and I know what we mean because we've coached on it. But for someone listening who is new to all of this, how would you describe what a boundary was?
Speaker 2:Before one does boundaries, you find yourself thinking things and doing things which are maybe reactionary or emotional or whatever. Reaction maybe an iraq, reactionary or emotional or whatever and um, meaning to me, um, often there'd be irritating, annoying and unnecessary and um, then, if you work out the boundaries, you work up what is in, what is in it for me, um, for my peace of mind, my interest, my happiness, and what is in it for the other person or the idea or the thing, and it's an exercise in who is going to benefit from taking a particular action. And when you, when you work it out, you set the boundary that this is what I'm going to do because, because, and that will be the, and that will be the result. And, um, I don't say I do it all the time, I think I probably do it. And I don't say I do it all the time, I think I probably do it unconsciously.
Speaker 1:Now, yeah, and that's interesting, isn't it? Because I don't ever think that we can be well, we can't be perfect humans all of the time. So whilst through coaching, we learn the skill of managing our minds, managing our emotions, setting boundaries, you know, putting, starting to be in control of us rather than trying to control other people, it doesn't then mean to say that we're going to be able to do it all the time, because being human, that's just not possible. Bringing it into our consciousness as much as possible as possible, then those new patterns of behavior become unconscious and but your, your, the level of your life has shifted, hopefully positively, and then that becomes those new patterns of behaving become unconscious, and then it becomes easy yeah, and your point about we're all human as well is is a is a factor that you have to keep on bringing into any equation that you're considering.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, because that is the only fact other than being born and dying is that we're human. So I'm curious how would you describe and please be honest, brutally, brutally honest how would you describe your the experience of coaching with me?
Speaker 2:um, basically terrifying often starts with something like I'm curious, and then you'd ask a question and you'd be looking at me and I'd be looking down at my notes or looking away, and then I'd ask for a question again and it's still the same question, it hasn't changed, and I wouldn't know how to answer. My mouth would go dry, I'd have to drink water and then I'd say I don't know, yeah, and then we'd have to go through it again. So I've forgotten the question what was your experience like?
Speaker 1:how would you describe your experience of coaching with me?
Speaker 2:yeah, it wouldn't go away terrifying, but thought generating the outcome of course, was highly successful, but the journey was, um, uh, challenging. I think I put it in my testimonial best about um, how that uh, it was challenging and I put in truthfully it. The answers are all found in myself and not from you, but that's why it was a difficult journey, because myself ain't that brave.
Speaker 1:Well, you think that and I think every person thinks that they're like oh well, no, I won't be able to do it because I don't know, and it's just simply not true, because we are the expert of ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's well, one certainly didn't know that. Yes, and one must always be wary of believing that entirely, I think, always be ready for change.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. I think that that is key, isn't it? To be able to take on the challenge. And that's a sales pitch, isn't it? Come and coach with me. It's terrifying, that's a sales pitch, isn't it? Come and coach with me. It's terrifying. You have to want to change, don't you? Yeah, you have to want to do it.
Speaker 2:Yes, and one of the early hurdles was to get over what is it resisting, reacting and avoiding? Hurdles in your mind. You have to free up your mind to be able to find the words to investigate the problem. Yeah, that's very important.
Speaker 1:Important, yeah, um, but it takes time and, having been on this terrifying challenging journey, what's the benefits of it?
Speaker 2:um well, I think I've said that I am. I'm much, I think I don't know how many I just I'm relieved. I am confident, much more confident in my relationships. I am certainly happier. I was always a bit of a raconteur, chatty fellow, but I'm more thoughtful now in what I say and in myself. Horrible expression.
Speaker 2:I feel very happy with my life yeah, that's incredible, isn't it yeah, um, and but also I, because it's you need to keep being trained. Stay in touch. Yeah, it's like anything that you're studying If you don't go back and review and rework things, you forget and you fall back into old ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those little check-in calls are really valuable, aren't they for that? So if someone was listening and they're kind of on the fence about, is this what I need to do, or is this a good investment to make, or they're just a little bit worried about having a conversation with me in case I try and sell them something that isn't suitable, what would you say to them?
Speaker 2:um, have you got a problem? Yes, if you've got a problem and you want to solve that problem and I know someone who can help you if it's a problem of the mind or a management of yourself I know someone who can help you overcome that problem.
Speaker 1:And would that be me, let me think. But what if they go? Oh yeah, but my mind's not the problem. My husband is, or my children are, or my boss is.
Speaker 2:Oh, I just say it's to do with relationships as well. It's your, it's your aura, it's all around you, it's everything about you yeah, yeah, yeah, and it does have to start with you, doesn't it? It does have to start with us. Oh, yeah, yeah, gosh. I know so many people who are desperately in need of help yeah, yeah and, and, then I know they would benefit yeah, what do you think holds them back?
Speaker 2:they know better. Oh yeah, it's a part of their ego. Their characteristic is they're very happy to say what the problem is, but they're also very happy to say I don't need help yeah, that's interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 1:and I know better. Actually is also true when you think I, as in my higher wisdom, if I'm willing to access it, does know a better way, but it's just used. It's used, like you say, that ego, that defensive. Oh no, my way, I know better. Yeah, that's fascinating, so interesting. So is there anything out? Because obviously I was highly prepared for this interview, given that I thought we were going to be coaching. So this is the thing. I had it in my calendar being as I teach time management. It was in my calendar richard holly, richard holly dot dot. Podcast interview. I just seen it, totally assumed it was a coaching session, went off into how I would normally start my coaching sessions and with which is confused and aren't we doing a? When I said to him what you want to get coached on today, he's like well, aren't we doing a podcast interview? So obviously, having gone into this highly prepared, is there anything that you, that we've missed, that you think is beneficial for somebody to hear that I haven't thought about that. Maybe you have.
Speaker 2:Well, I hope I've said enough. It depends, it depends on the individual, their state of mind, their condition, where they are in their world. Are they unhappy? Can they not overcome what's in their heads and make themselves feel happy? If they're that sort of person and they do want to find a solution, then they need Nicky, the Life Coach.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. Thank you, so, if there's nothing else, is there anything else that you want to say? Not?
Speaker 2:at the moment. I'll probably do it tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Yes, me too, when I go. I could have asked that question and I could have said that that's totally normal, always is the case. But I just want to end, then, our conversation today, richard, by just expressing how deeply honoured I am that you chose me. How what's the word? Um? How I have so much gratitude that you come and speak to me, first of all weekly and then monthly, and you, you trusted in my space and my coaching to be vulnerable and to talk about things that were not supposed to be talked about, and I just want to celebrate you so much for having the courage for doing that At what was 79 is now you're 82.
Speaker 1:So we've been working together for three years and we still find things to talk about. I think that's the amazing thing, isn't it? There is still always something to talk about, um, so thank you so much for choosing me to be your coach, and I've been around to your house for tea and I would love to come around again and sit in your little. We didn't get to sit outside last time because it started raining, but the weather's so gorgeous here in England maybe we could do that on your patio by your river again. I would love to do that, but thank you so much for joining me today and thank you for being in my world and thank you too.
Speaker 2:It's made mine a good one yes, thank you.
Speaker 1:So thank you very much for listening everybody um, I will talk to you all next week. Bye.