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The Working Mums Podcast
Teaching working mums mind & emotional management tools so they enjoy their kids, their job & themselves again without all the shitty mum guilt.
The Working Mums Podcast
Ep #71 - From Rejection to Resilience: Tina Chander’s Journey in Law and Life
This emotionally honest and deeply inspiring episode features Tina Chander, who shares her journey from a modest upbringing in Telford above her family’s corner shop to becoming a respected legal professional. Tina opens up about navigating significant personal hardships — including the loss of both parents at a young age — while carving out a career in a competitive, often exclusive legal industry.
🌟 Key Topics Discussed:
- Background & Upbringing:
Raised above a shop in Telford by her Indian parents, Tina describes a joyful but challenging childhood, shaped in part by her mother's schizophrenia and the family’s financial difficulties. - Personal Loss & Resilience:
Both of Tina’s parents passed away when she was in her early 20s. She shares how grief, isolation, and responsibility shaped her strength and determination. - Education & Career Path:
Tina studied law with psychology, then earned a Master’s in Clinical Criminology. Despite setbacks (like not securing a barrister pupillage), she pivoted to qualify as a solicitor and found her passion in employment law. - Overcoming Barriers:
Tina talks candidly about the discrimination, tokenism, and rejections she faced — often being overlooked despite high qualifications. Her story highlights systemic barriers in the legal profession, especially for women of color. - Employment Law Passion:
Her love of solving real-world problems and advocating for fairness made employment law a perfect fit. She now mentors and supports junior colleagues, drawing from her own experience in nearly every legal support role. - The Power of Voice & Perspective:
Tina emphasizes the importance of knowing your worth, asking for what you want, and using your voice — a lesson rooted in her father's wisdom and shopfront life lessons.
💡 Notable Quotes & Messages:
- “Rejection is one person’s view, not the world’s view.”
- “You’re born with your own voice. You have the right to use it.”
- “I had to get good at something – because there was no other option.”
- “Not everyone is like that — and you can’t let the bad ones stop you.”
🧭 Takeaways for Listeners:
- You don’t need a perfect start to create a powerful journey.
- Emotional resilience and self-belief are key to long-term success.
- Systemic bias is real — but persistence and authenticity can break through.
- Every experience (even as a receptionist) adds value to leadership.
- Ask for what you want. Don’t play small — your voice matters.
🎙️ Future Episode Tease:
Tina and Nicky plan to collaborate again soon, focusing on “Five Legal Tips for Working Women” — practical guidance many don’t realize they need.
If you'd like to connect with Tina, you can do so here - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tinachanderwh/
You can also watch this episode on YouTube with Captions - https://www.youtube.com/@TheWorkingMumsLifeCoach
If you'd like to have a chat about how I can help you further, please don't hesitate to click here & book a time with me, I'd love to meet you.
You can also follow me on IG @NickyBevan_LifeCoach
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Welcome, welcome, welcome, my friends, to this week podcast. And this is quite an unusual one for me, because I am joined today by a guest Who, personally, I've never actually met before.
But I'm really inspired to hear her story. So, I have Tina joining me today. I'm gonna let her explain more about herself in a second, but when I was looking up the email that said about coming on today, and your LinkedIn profile.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
And your website. You're a qualified barrister. And solicitor, you were a woman in business mentor at some point in 2022, it looked like.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Um, so, oh my gosh, my imposter syndrome has just kicked in, big style, because clearly you are a very clever lady.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
And I've got this limiting belief that I'm just not clever at all, so welcome to my podcast, Tina!
[Tina]
Well, welcome, we're all clever, just all in very special ways.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
I love that, thank you. I love that you said that. So tell me, tell me a bit about yourself.
[Tina]
Okay, so, um, you know, thank you, first of all, for the very massive introduction. Now, I've got imposter syndrome. Are we talking about the same person?
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
It's funny, isn't it?
[Tina]
Um, so yes, I'm Tina, and I'm the head of employment law.
[Tina]
I really do enjoy employment law, and I think that that is partially why I'm successful.
[Tina]
In bringing about news and talking to employees and employers, so… Employment law is my thing. Love it.
[Tina]
Now, everyone assumes that must mean I've got the brains of Britain. Actually, I don't, so I want to put that out there. I'm very, very good at employment law, but I'm probably not much good at anything else.
[Tina]
I do… I do live life to the fullest, as best I can.
[Tina]
Um, I've got a range of qualifications. And I'm really proud of those qualifications, because they're really hard to get. There's a lot of grafting involved.
[Tina]
And you have to have constant words with yourself. And you have to… try so hard against so many other people to stand out.
[Tina]
And be seen, and be offered opportunities along the way. Um, so I, you know, I'm from a town called Telford, which is in Shropshire.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
Um, and that is where I was raised by my late parents.
[Tina]
So, I lived, uh, above a shop in Telford, so my dad had the traditional corner shop, if I should say it like that.
[Tina]
Uh, with my three siblings, and we had a great life, actually. It was a lot of fun.
[Tina]
All the school kids thought it was cool. That we left above a shop and didn't live in a traditional house.
[Tina]
Um, but it came with lots of challenges, because obviously it was quite a small house.
[Tina]
It's more flat above the shop. Um, but my parents were fabulous people, and that transcends in all my siblings, because we're a part of them.
[Tina]
Um, so they were great individuals, but suddenly they did both pass away.
[Tina]
Um, when I was in my 20s, so… and that was when they were… my mum was 49, and my dad was 15, quite close together.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Okay.
[Tina]
I want to think back now, at the age of 44, I think, gosh, I was young when they passed away.
[Tina]
Um, and life brought about a new set of challenges then.
[Tina]
Um, and those challenges meant coming out of the darkness, and actually having a belief that you can continue in your life.
[Tina]
And you can get over what is the most difficult, difficult pain.
[Tina]
But you can still flourish and still carry the loved ones in your heart, so… Those challenges took me all the way to my 30s.
[Tina]
Um, and when I reached my 30s, I definitely felt like Tina had arrived in her own space. Um, and I think from then, I really focused on having a career that I wanted to enjoy, not because I needed it on paper.
[Tina]
Or it was the right thing to do, but I wanted a career That would get the best version of me, and… but also utilise what I enjoy. And essentially.
[Tina]
I'm a little bit of a problem solver. I love a problem, can't do crosswords, can't do word searches.
[Tina]
But give me an employment problem, and I'm very focused, and I very much enjoy that.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
So that's how I ended up getting, um, my qualifications. I worked really hard to get there.
[Tina]
Um, and put… and put my faith in me. To get them. Um, and thankfully, they did pay off as well.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah, that's so incredible. So tell me… Take us back a little bit to… Like, how did this… how did it start? Like, how did you get into… Because you've got a number of different qualifications, I noticed, and psychology, and criminal psychology, I think, being one of them.
[Tina]
Yes!
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
So, tell me a little bit about that kind of journey, how you got started Um, and then how you enabled yourself to keep going.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
And going then into… the employment world, you said, I think in the blurb it said that you were… you struggled initially to even be accepted in the law.
[Tina]
Yeah. Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
In the law world. So tell us more about that story.
[Tina]
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, for sure, I had to be a very strong character, but even as a strong character.
[Tina]
I had very many occasions along my journey which… where I wanted to throw in a towel or give up, and I was deeply upset.
[Tina]
By some of the behaviours, as I now look back and see them, that were actually putting me off from becoming who I am today.
[Tina]
So, obviously, as I said, I had my schooling in Talford.
[Tina]
Um, and then I went to university and studied law with psychology.
[Tina]
And I picked that because I'm just interested in people. Um, but also.
[Tina]
My mum, my late mum, was, uh. She had schizophrenia, and she had that Throughout my childhood. So, I would often see my mum's, um… patterns, if I can put it that way.
[Tina]
And it would sometimes make me think, well. It's got a label, but why does… why does… why does she feel that way, or… or why does… her mind go a particular direction sometimes, because it never stopped her loving her children, and of course her husband.
[Tina]
But it did change her, and she would go through these changes.
[Tina]
Throughout my childhood, and It was only until I started going to school that I realized that actually, those behaviors are quite… were not spoken about, and they're not… what all the other parents had.
[Tina]
Because I sort of started to realize, oh, my mum's a little bit different.
[Tina]
Um, but I loved her for it, I loved her quirkiness.
[Tina]
But ultimately, I think you don't realize these things until you're in a space where you see differences.
[Tina]
And that's where I started to notice that things were different at home for me.
[Tina]
Um, and my parents, uh, they did struggle a lot. Um, I think they struggled with life in general.
[Tina]
Um, because it's tough, it was tough to come from India.
[Tina]
It was tough to run a shop and compete against the big companies.
[Tina]
And a lot of the time, my dad was caring for my mum as well.
[Tina]
Um, but I enjoyed working in the shop, so very often my dad would say, do you want to serve this customer? And I was like, yes, yes, and we'd take it in turns to serve customers, or Do you want to come to the cash and carry? Which was…
[Tina]
Far more exciting than going to your local supermarket, so… What I realize is I really like people, and My dad was great at being able to adapt to a customer, so… he used to know what every… every football team that his customers supported.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
And he was able to have a positive conversation with every customer, because Um, they all thought he supported their team, but little did they know, he supported pretty much every team, depending on… because of them that came through the door.
[Tina]
But I… my dad, when I think about him, even if I shook my eyes.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
He is instrumental in the voice that I am today. Because he taught me to speak and to adapt, and to and to not be shy, and I think that's… one of the other reasons that I wanted a job which would allow me to utilize speaking skills
[Tina]
And not always sit behind a computer, and not be able to passionately advance some information that I want to.
[Tina]
Um, so I went… so I didn't just do law, I did law with psychology.
[Tina]
Uh, because I liked both subjects, essentially. I thought, let me have a go at both of them.
[Tina]
Um, and I did well at university, got my degree. Um, but I still wasn't quite clear where I was going with the law and psychology.
[Tina]
So, then I decided to do a Master of Science in Clinical Criminology.
[Tina]
Uh, and that is eye-opening. So, it was a year-long course.
[Tina]
And I learned about stuff which I had no clue happened in the real world.
[Tina]
At all, so that showed a bit of my naivety. And, you know, a lot of it was a criminal focus and behaviors of terrible criminals and what they do from a sexual perspective.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
Uh, so that was quite alarming to… to learn a lot about that.
[Tina]
Um, and then once I… but… the course was very much, again, about how people behave.
[Tina]
And sometimes why they behave, because there isn't always an answer as to why someone does what they do.
[Tina]
Um, and it was interesting to learn about those sort of behaviours and why things happen, or what they are, and the criminal nature of stuff.
[Tina]
Um, and so after that, I thought, oh, I know, I should be on my feet, I need to go and be a barrister.
[Tina]
So that's the path I've decided. So off I went, uh, did the bar vocational course.
[Tina]
Which is, um, the course that it's a bit like, uh, what solicitors do at pre-course, and barristers do a pre-course, so that was the… the course to be a barrister.
[Tina]
Um, and at the same time, I did, uh… An advanced legal practice master, so another master's at the same time.
[Tina]
Uh, which was really good as well, so I got to focus on something.
[Tina]
Uh, by way of a dissertation. So I spent a year doing that as well.
[Tina]
Um. But sadly, uh… I didn't get a pupillage, which is the stage that you needed to have.
[Tina]
Uh, to become embarrassing. That's because there was problems at home.
[Tina]
Um, and that's… and I think that's real life, isn't it? There is no straight path to… anything that happens. I mean, my parents had passed away.
[Tina]
It wasn't… it didn't seem possible for me to be able to be a barrister.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Okay.
[Tina]
Um, so what I actually did at… from that point, is focus on uh, working in a law firm, that's where I started as a receptionist in a law firm, to actually get… what does it actually feel like to work in a law firm? And I did work at
[Tina]
A small law of firm. And then I actually went on to dual qualify as a solicitor.
[Tina]
Uh, and I fell into employment law because I was, at that stage, I was… albeit part of legal in any department, because I just wanted to be a paralegal, because that's… that felt like the right move.
[Tina]
I need to get my experience. So it did have a go at different areas of law, but then when I got into employment law.
[Tina]
I was like, oh, this is the one, this is the one that I really like.
[Tina]
Uh, because it gave me, uh, everything that I enjoy doing, which is analysing a problem.
[Tina]
Finding a solution and talking to people.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah, that's so incredible. And coming from someone who failed some of her GCSEs and has a couple of MVQs, the list of your… your qualifications is quite outstanding to me.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
And I just… we rewind slightly. When you said, um… You were doing… you did… forget me, I've forgotten, I didn't write down what the actual course was, but… When you were doing your, um, I think it was the law, uh, the criminology.
[Tina]
Yep.
[Tina]
Oh, yes.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
The psychology. Just in spaces of timeframe, was that after your parents had passed, or whilst your… Parents were past that. What was it about your home environment that you think was detrimental to then going and getting a placement for a barrister?
[Tina]
Um, because my mum needed… my dad had… support, and because my dad was always at home.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Ask, and please, please say if you don't want to go to this area, but… I know for me, I'm going on a much more spiritual journey at the moment, and… opening up myself to, you know, life on the other side, or whatever one believes in, then we all have different beliefs, don't we?
[Tina]
With my mom. You know, I couldn't be in a different city, I needed to be in Talford.
[Tina]
And actually, I wanted to be in town for my mum. I didn't want my mum to be on her own.
[Tina]
Because, you know, they were very traditional, that they'd always been together since… since their arranged marriage. That's… that's how they grew up.
[Tina]
In their marriage, it was… it was quite the norm. Like, you know, nowadays.
[Tina]
Partners work separately in different locations. They have different working patterns, and you come together in the evening, for example.
[Tina]
But the… my mum and dad were together all the time.
[Tina]
So, when my dad passed away. My mum's heart was broken. It was broken, and I could see it in her face And she tried really, really hard to put on a brave face.
[Tina]
But ultimately, she was super lonely as well, but I lived with my mum, and I knew I wanted just to be with her.
[Tina]
At all times. So, when I took another job as a receptionist.
[Tina]
I was able to travel home at lunch times and have my lunch with Mum. I'd finish work and stay in the evenings with Mum, so I didn't really socialise at that time either, because I just wanted to make sure the woman knew that I was around.
[Tina]
Um, and unfortunately, she… she did pass away, um, and there is a medical reason. Of course, there is, but… I think, uh… I've come to terms with the fact that she died of a broken heart.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
When you look back, because clearly your mum and dad had a huge impact in who you are.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
And I think what's so beautiful, Tina, about your story is how not only did they say it.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
They lived it, because I think, in my experience, my mum said some incredible things to me. You can always… like, if you could do whatever you put your mind to.
[Tina]
Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
But I never had that… evidence. I never saw her necessarily doing that. But it sounds like your parents were slightly different in the sense that they would say it.
[Tina]
Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
And you would see them doing it, because, like you say, your dad knew everybody else's football teams, and He taught you how to interact.
[Tina]
Yeah. Hmm.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Soup! Bama! Spiritual, religious, whatever, however you want to… put it terminology.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
How have you dealt with that passing in in that, like, it was a broken heart. Like, how… What has that experience been for you?
[Tina]
Well, it's… I mean, it's… it was really, really hard, because my parents uh, didn't have.
[Tina]
A significant family here. And, like I said, me and my siblings were in our early 20s, which I now think is still… you're still a kid when I think… think. I mean, I wouldn't have thought at that time.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
But now I'm like, oh my god, I went through a lot, and all my… threatens her parents and grandparents and aunties and uncles, and And so you could feel very, very isolated.
[Tina]
Um, and also. You know, we had a lot… they had a lot of financial difficulty.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Sorry, it's, um… it's… it pulled slightly, so I… I've paused it, but hold, that's saying that my…
[Tina]
Oh, that's okay.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
I'll press record again in just a second.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
I know why. I feel…
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
I literally just had a new internet put in yesterday.
[Tina]
I think it's working! It says this meeting is being recorded.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Okay. Let's carry on.
[Tina]
But I haven't… but I haven't heard it say it, you know, nobody says it's recording.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah. That's okay. Let's go back. I'll press… I'll press pause again. Uh, I'll press record again, and we'll see what happens. Hopefully it's stabilized.
[Tina]
Or something like that.
[Tina]
Hang on, Mrs. Put that there.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
There we go. Sorry, we just had a little technical hitch, though, I think, on my side with Wi-Fi, but we'll carry… we'll carry on with her.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Conversation. Yeah, so you were saying they didn't have any significant family, so you chose You really chose to be there in your early 20s at that time.
[Tina]
Yeah, and I think that's different, and I, you know, I appreciate… the importance of family, because I've got nephews and nieces now, and I'm very involved in their… upbringing, and I enjoy them, and it feels nice that they have that, but
[Tina]
I remember when my parents passed. That there wasn't any significant family, so there was nobody ever checking on Earth. Um, and, you know, because they were… living on very little income.
[Tina]
The struggle… struggle carried on for several years past.
[Tina]
Then… them dying, really, because Because it's not… it was just… it was just really, really hard to get through life.
[Tina]
And to keep smiling, and… to not want to rewind it back, because of course, we can't rewind life back.
[Tina]
But you can want something at that age so desperately that you think it will rewind back, but it doesn't, and I think You know, we're very good now at being transparent, and we talk about things with our friends, we talk about things
[Tina]
Even in… even with your colleagues at work, but… Oh, I just remember people saying, sorry to hear your mum's passed, and then that was it.
[Tina]
Oh, sorry to hear your dad's passed, and then that was it, really. And I think… that… because our circle was, you know, our… my friends all had their big families around them. Like, you would feel it. Of course you do, but
[Tina]
You don't want anything bad to happen to them, but you feel quite isolated.
[Tina]
And then to go on and want… to have a big career.
[Tina]
With no secret connections, or with no, you know, support behind you.
[Tina]
It's, you know, those ladders are harder to climb. Um, but I definitely felt… uh… sad for many years.
[Tina]
That I was pretending to be happy when Actually, I was quite sad.
[Tina]
A lot of the time. Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
And isn't it incredible how… how we do that as humans? How we… It's almost like we wear a mask, isn't it? It's like we have to be happy and positive, and it's just absolute toxic bullshit, because when we've lost someone that we love, it is so appropriate to grieve.
[Tina]
Yeah.
[Tina]
Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Um, so it's… it's the most purest, loving emotion, I think, when we've lost someone that we love so deeply.
[Tina]
Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
And yet, we don't tend to allow ourselves to go through that process, like, right.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Sort of, let's just carry on, put on a… put on a brave face and… and crack on with it.
[Tina]
Mm, mm. Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
So, then what happened? I mean, tell us about this ladder that was… That was challenging to climb.
[Tina]
Really hard time, yeah, because, I mean, one of the things… My dad used to say it quite a lot, you know, they were very open in the sense that they knew that if you… if you want to be something in your life.
[Tina]
And in my dad, my dad used to say, if you want… if you don't want to get married, that was his… that was his one-liner.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
Because he still believed in, you know. Getting two people together, and off you go and get married and be happy forever. Like, him and my mom.
[Tina]
Uh, he said, you need to get really good at something.
[Tina]
And I used to speak to my dad in the shop about things that I could be good at.
[Tina]
Um, but he'd always say, you'll know when you're good at something, because you'll find it easy.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Ooh, that's a good thought!
[Tina]
Uh, and… and uh… But of course, you know.
[Tina]
When you're younger, you think. I can do anything, and I can do everything. So I went through wanting to be a policewoman.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
Or police officer, that's the right word now, to cabin… having crew, uh… to, uh… to being a lawyer, uh… I went through lots of different things.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah…
[Tina]
But just because they… there was something about anything that I picked that was… appealing, but not really knowing… what I really want to do, and… but what I did know, which I was very, very clear about, is that I want to do something which means I get
[Tina]
Interaction with people, that was really important to me. Because I know I would get bored.
[Tina]
If I don't have interaction. I can switch off.
[Tina]
Um, so that was something that I knew I wanted to get involved in.
[Tina]
And, um. Once I'd started law as an A-level first, I was like, oh, I quite like this.
[Tina]
And that's the first time I'd, um… tried any sort of law in terms of learning.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Hmm.
[Tina]
I thought to myself, well, quite like this, actually. And then one noticed, that's why I decided to pick it at university.
[Tina]
And, um, I thought, oh, I quite like this as well, I quite like it at degree level.
[Tina]
And I think with schooling was very average for me, because I don't like having to learn lots of different subjects.
[Tina]
So I wasn't that student that could excel in every single subject. I was… I was average.
[Tina]
Um, but what I found in my… in my education is that as soon as every time the subject got narrower, I got better.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Oh, interesting, yeah.
[Tina]
Um, so I was better at college, because I had 3 subjects to learn, and then I was better at university, because I had two or one subject to learn, and then, um, you know, I'm good at employment law, because that's the only subject I know now.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
Um, so I found that, actually. I got good at something, or got better as soon as the subject started dropping off, and I had to focus on one thing, or lesser lesser things. Um… So, when I used to think about my dad saying, you need to be really good at something.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
Um, that's what drove the university degrees, but then the struggle, the real struggle.
[Tina]
Wasn't, uh, prying myself to learning, because I like learning. It was, uh, convincing law firms that I'm worth a shot. That's… that's where the real shit will come in.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
Because, you know, it's very, very difficult. It doesn't matter Uh, if you've got an outstanding seafly, or an average CV, when I was going through the process.
[Tina]
There didn't seem to be any rationale as to Other than what I assumed was you faced it, or it didn't.
[Tina]
Or you've… you're here for an interview because we know someone, or you've been to a particular school, or you've had a particular education.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Oh, interesting.
[Tina]
That's how it certainly felt. And it was very, very difficult.
[Tina]
Um, I had so many rejections for… paralegal roles, because a lot of students Once they finish the universe, we'll go looking for a paralegal role.
[Tina]
Um, and that's… but I've had so many rejections. Uh, and… I'd look at my CV, and there was never anyone to sense-check what I was putting, because I didn't have anyone that could do that with me, so I didn't have any mentor support or coaching support, so I couldn't see why
[Tina]
Well, my CV wasn't getting me anywhere. Um, but when I applied.
[Tina]
To be a receptionist at a law firm, suddenly that seemed to land. And I thought, well, okay.
[Tina]
Fine, but I remember, uh, you know. Meeting other trainees.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
I'm thinking, oh, you know, I've actually got the same, if not more, qualifications.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Hmm…
[Tina]
I'm meeting other people. And you do feel, sometimes, uh… Do you just feel… I don't know how to describe the word, like, what's wrong with me?
[Tina]
Because you… your natural instinct is to look at someone and go, but I can do that.
[Tina]
And then you start looking for what made you different, or what But what must have been the difference, even if you're wrong, you just naturally start looking for it.
[Tina]
Um, so after I became… after I became a receptionist, which I… Which actually was great fun, because I had I got to read the post every day.
[Tina]
Um, that came through. And delegate it to solicitors, and answer the phone. So in one way, I was in my element, because I was on the phone, chatted away, directing calls, and all the sorts.
[Tina]
Uh, but I… but I had to move up, I just couldn't stay as a receptionist, and… And then I went on to be a paralegal, which I was so happy about. I thought, oh, wow, finally made it, I'm now a paralegal.
[Tina]
And, uh, you know, you feel like you have some say on a file, or you get to have an opinion when you're a paralegal.
[Tina]
And you get to read something that's quite juicy as a paralegal, so I was more than happy in that one.
[Tina]
Um, and then when I joined… Yeah. Uh… a different company, yeah, so I moved on to a different company.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Sorry, can I just check, was that for the same company?
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
That you're a receptionist, or was it a different company? Oh, okay.
[Tina]
And then when I became a solicitor. Uh… I was… I was absolutely chuffed with myself. I thought, this is great.
[Tina]
Um, and that's when I really got into employment law, but… A lot of people that went to uni with me qual… not qualified, but they got their jobs way before me, so I was… I was late.
[Tina]
In comparison, because… Because, for some reason, they were getting the jobs.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Okay.
[Tina]
Straight in as paralegal, or… they seem to have settled quickly in a role, whereas I… definitely had to go through or a lot of rejections.
[Tina]
But one of the best things about what happened to me is that by having nearly every role in a law firm.
[Tina]
I feel very connected to individuals in the law firm, because I have been a receptionist, I was a secretary as well, so I've done the audio typing.
[Tina]
I was a paralegal, and then I went through the different stages of promotion as a solicitor.
[Tina]
I'm… and that makes me a really, uh, approachable person, I think, because I see, even in the law firm that I work now, that I often get, um… more junior-level staff wanting to… wanting support, or they feel more able to speak to me, but
[Tina]
I think that's great, because actually. I didn't come in, uh… without having some real-life experience of what it is like to rely on the people that you… that you need to do your job.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it? How when we look back.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
And I'm sure it maybe didn't feel like this at the time.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
But when we look back at our journey, how it all happened for us.
[Tina]
Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Rather than against us, and how actually going through all those different levels.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Um, that is what makes you so good at your job today.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
And that's what builds our resilience, isn't it? Like, the amount of people that I coach through fear of rejection, and myself, like, rejection is one of those primal fears that we have as humans, because it separates us from the pack if we're rejected.
[Tina]
Yes.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
That primitive part of our brain hates it, but… Having gone through it, and through it, and through it, I mean, what is your view now of rejection?
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Having gone through that many.
[Tina]
To be honest, it just bounces off me. I'm like, okay. Um, I mean, I mean, in terms of rejection now.
[Tina]
One of the things, you know, it can crush your rejection.
[Tina]
It really can, and it can weigh heavy on your mind, it can give you those sleepless nights.
[Tina]
But you've got to remember, rejection is one person's view on you. It's not the world's view on you. It's one person's view, and that view could be tainted with subconscious bias.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yes.
[Tina]
It could be a… it could be made simply because there is someone that they want to put in that position, and it's not you, but as an individual, you will go through so many different motions when you're rejected.
[Tina]
Um, and I did, because I honestly thought, I don't know why I'm bothering with it. It's an absolute farce. This career is just for… a certain individual, and I'm not that person.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
Um, but I was… I didn't actually have an alternative, so I had to stick with it.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah. And it's… it is fascinating, isn't it? How some careers, um, or some job titles… I think the finance industry is changing, but it's like this. Like, when I think of a solicitor.
[Tina]
Um.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
I think of that, like. Middle-aged white man, with slightly greying hair.
[Tina]
Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Uh, who lives in a big mansion in the countryside. And, like, you… you are not that stereotypical image. And it's the same with finance. When you think about a wealth planner, or a financial advisor Or accountant, and you're just like, isn't it crazy how we…
[Tina]
Yeah.
[Tina]
Accountant.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
How we have these images as if Oh, as if being a woman and an Indian woman makes us less… less able to do that job. I mean, it is… when you think about it logically, it's absolute bullshit, isn't it?
[Tina]
Yeah.
[Tina]
It is, but it is, but it's also… Do you know what the… the reason it still bothers people So much, and I came over my hurdles, but I still face, um… But I came over a lot… a lot of hurdles, is because
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
You know, and this is not limited to… North Ends, but… Tokenism exists, unfortunately, and some employees will say they believe in EDI, but they don't actually live EDI.
[Tina]
And, uh, certain people will be recruited. Because, or appointed, because… They all meeting certain requirements that others think is the right ones, which are not necessarily fair.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Oh, interesting. Yeah, so like a tick boxing exercise, because it works… I mean, you know, being a white British woman, I wouldn't experience… I wouldn't have the same experiences that you have.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Um, so it wouldn't… I mean, there are just the fact that we're women.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
There are condi… it's just… it's the same with men. We've got conditioning, they've got conditioning, but… It is fast, so has that been your experience at all, having…
[Tina]
Felt it that's being brutally honest, I have felt unheard and unseen.
[Tina]
Um, and I felt… uh, suitable when needed.
[Tina]
Uh, I'm not… I'm not… uh, hard feeling.
[Tina]
To put to bed when you feel that way sometimes, because You want to be someone that's respected for what you bring to the table.
[Tina]
Um, you don't want to be a person that is there to fulfill a quota.
[Tina]
Or to repair a particular way on the outside. But also, you don't want to be rejected, because you didn't go to a particular university, and it's a lot There's a lot to balance, and… And I'm not saying that this happens everywhere, but I'm certainly also not saying it doesn't happen.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
No. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
[Tina]
Because it does, it does happen, and if you're one of those people that feel it, or have or have experienced it.
[Tina]
It's… it's hard to lift yourself up And then we've got this other problem where we're not having diverse workforces, because Uh, and I've done some work with women's leadership groups on this, that… women won't put themselves forward.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
For certain roles. Because they've all decided they won't get it, because they might want to work part-time, for example, or Uh, they won't be able to work additional hours, or they're just not good enough because they haven't had as much experience, because they've been on mat leave, for example.
[Tina]
You know, so… so… the barrier never gets broken.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah…
[Tina]
Because it's constantly being… I think there's definitely people that want change, and it doesn't happen, and then… There's lots of… lots of individuals that want to do something and then don't do it.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah. It's really interesting, so what I get what I get my clients to do is the challenge of the day, and I've been doing this with myself recently, about asking for what I want.
[Tina]
Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Because I think that whole playing small, not asking for what we want, not asking for… what… what our worth is.
[Tina]
Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
We continue to enable the society and that difference in pay, in pensions, in all of it. All of it, because we're not actually Asking for what we want, and that's… For me, that's something that I feel quite passionate about as women.
[Tina]
Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Not from frustration, not from, um, aggression, but from a real place of empowerment and love.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
I can do that job. Like, if it… and… And if I don't ask for it, I am not going to get it.
[Tina]
Yes, yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
And so, like, being willing to put your hand up and go.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
This is what I think. Being willing to put your hand up and go, hang on, this is my opinion, or being willing to actually ask for what we want.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Is, I think, what's going to help continue the change.
[Tina]
Yeah, I agree with you there, and also, you know, there's… we've got to learn to overcome the fear of retaliation, or the fear of rejection, because You're fearing something that hasn't… hasn't actually happened, and you're using that as a barrier to put yourself forward, and
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
I also think that we can get caught up in, if I work Here, then this is where I'm going to work now, until it's time to retire and collect my function. Um… And you can get caught up in that thought process.
[Tina]
But actually, there's a world of opportunities out there, and there's so much flexibility that employers are now open to, as opposed to Previously, you'd only get it if you come back off mat leave, for example. So now, you know, and…
[Tina]
You know, there's so much new legislation, which I won't bore you with, because it will bore you, but there's so much… There's so much legislation out there to empower employees as well.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah. Yeah.
[Tina]
That we're just not using it. We're just not using it. And, um… I think they… you've got to be realistic. There are some vile employers out there And I wouldn't be an employment lawyer if everyone behaved.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah, yeah, you have a job for a reason.
[Tina]
That's the truth of the matter. Yes, absolutely. But there are also so many employees out there that are fabulous.
[Tina]
That offer flexibility, that have great benefits, that want an inclusive environment.
[Tina]
That want everyone to have an opportunity. Um, and those employees sometimes get forgotten, because because we're stuck in a role, or we're stuck with an organization which doesn't have those qualities.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so true. So, I'm curious, although maybe, maybe the, um… Oh, I forgot what you just… what the word was. That's my perimenopausal, uh, brain kicking in.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Um, maybe we could do another episode all about the opportunities that are out there now that we just don't know about from a legal perspective. What was the… well, I can't remember… yeah. But just coming back to… because I'm, um…
[Tina]
Yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Mind and emotional management expert, building that emotional resilience, and really starting to look at your thoughts Um, how those thoughts make you feel, and then the behavior that you take off the back of that emotion. So… Tina, what… the kind of sense that I'm getting from you is you… you clearly, whether you know this or not.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
I think you probably do, but… Whether you believe it or not, you're clearly a very… bold, passionate.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Woman who hasn't let her… kind of limiting beliefs.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Hold you back. And I'm curious, as to… what you've been saying to yourself Throughout the rejections, throughout the process of going for the paralegal, and then the solicitor, and The obstacles that you've had to overcome What has enabled you to continue
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Moving through that journey, because a lot of people would have stopped.
[Tina]
Um, yeah, truthfully, I had little options open to me. Because… because, uh… my parents had passed away.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Okay.
[Tina]
And, uh, life was a struggle. And it… I had a crossroads. It could continue to be struggling, or… I do, as my dad says, and get good at something.
[Tina]
And by getting good at something, I've now got a better life.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Right, okay.
[Tina]
Um, but people, uh… people have been rude.
[Tina]
They've been, uh, offensive. They've created an intimidating environment at times.
[Tina]
So… and I haven't easily batted it. Off. But I've had to stay focused.
[Tina]
And also… and also remember that those behaviors are not okay, and they're actually… a bad behaviour of that person.
[Tina]
But not… and believe it, not everyone's like that, and I think I got that from working in the shop with my dad.
[Tina]
Because people were nice, people from all walks of life would walk in.
[Tina]
On the way to work, on the way to college. Elderly coming in for a stamp, you know, that's the truth, or their morning paper.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
And so, there are… been… grown up in a shop was… It allows me to see that not everyone is the same, so… and you are going to get those people that are just not nice.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah. So what… the two powerful sentences that I think then you have, maybe even slightly unconsciously, but they… you just say them as if it's a fact.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
One, not everybody's like that, so when you do come across somebody who isn't behaving.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Um, nicely. Then you're able to just remind yourself not everybody is like that. And I think that's really key, because we can really buy into, oh, that's the way men are, oh, that's the way women are, oh, that's the way they are, oh, that's the way…
[Tina]
Correct, yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
And it's just not true. Not everybody's like that. And also, this… Absolute drive, and you created this focus.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Because you were thinking, I'm gonna get good at something. Like, I'm gonna get good at something That created this real focus in you, and it was that focus that then allowed you to Take the actions of batting off the rejections, of not taking on other people's points of view, of not letting other people stop you.
[Tina]
Yeah, yeah.
[Tina]
Correct.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Which is so powerful.
[Tina]
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I think… It's okay to think, um, you know, someone's status doesn't mean that they're right.
[Tina]
Um, because I've heard some crap… come out from some people that… I don't know, I'm just… I'm just bemused. I'm like, how on earth can you say that? Or… They… or they make an assumption, or… They use their power to…
[Tina]
To, uh… for thought process to be one particular way.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
But that's not the real world. We can say what we want.
[Tina]
Within reason, and in the right environment. Um… And you're born with your own voice, and you have… it's okay to have an opinion, and it's okay to disagree, but We need to get better at that, because We're more about agreeing to keep the peace.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah. Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
Which is right in certain scenarios. Rather than upsetting a thought process. And the reason we don't do it is because we think it's upsetting.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah. Yeah.
[Tina]
But it's nice having an alternative opinion. And, you know, I think we could all do with a bit of… how to handle difficult conversation, or how to stand out from an opinion that's against everyone else. And I think We just don't always have the tools, so we don't say nothing.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah, yeah, that's so good. Sue, have you ever had coaching? I mean, you were a mentor at one point. Have you had coaching or mentoring in your career?
[Tina]
Yeah. No, but I think… but… I never happened, but… I talk about my dad, Char.
[Tina]
That was a great environment to learn about people. From, uh, and also, growing up with my parents, and um… having their challenges.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
You know, their real-life challenges, financial challenges, medical challenges. Meant that, uh.
[Tina]
They… they showed that not everything's always rosy, but it doesn't mean you have to be unhappy, and you can't speak, and you can't do something that you want.
[Tina]
And that's real life, actually, isn't it?
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, I love the fact that, like you just said earlier, um.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Just having an understanding that people can have opinions. And opinions aren't right and opinions aren't wrong. And that means that you are okay to have an opinion as well, and… And having that courage, but it sounds like it, especially the environment in the shop, just sounds like it was the most brilliant life lessons
[Tina]
Yeah.
[Tina]
Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, when do you get that as a young child growing up? You don't because you go to… you have your environment, a nursery, or preschool, with your family, with your playgroup friends.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
It's incredible.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
And then you go through your schools, and you have your friendships from schools, and… or your parents.
[Tina]
Children, parents, friends, children's, for example. So, so when… when you're growing up, do you… are you… seeing different people come through the door.
[Tina]
Uh, whether they're stopping for a long conversation, or they're, hi, bye, I just want to get the paper and go, but when do you see those different people? So I… I was very lucky to have had that experience.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah, yeah, that's it. And use that experience. I'm not always… I'm not sure that I buy into luck.
[Tina]
Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Anymore. I think it's more… taking what you've learned and using it in your life that you created your opportunities.
[Tina]
Yeah, yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
I mean, there were things you maybe wouldn't have chosen, I'm not saying that, but… Um, you know, you've took… a lot of people would have just crumbled when their parents died in the early 20s, but you didn't do that. You took the opportunity to
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Keep moving forward and create that drive and create that focus.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
To get where you are today, so… I'm celebrating you! I think it's incredible! So good!
[Tina]
Oh, thank you! But, you know, I'm a very, as she said, I'm quite bold, and, you know, I do… I love a good giggle, but actually, I like my own company, and I think that's really important to where I am today, so… I'm quite happy on my own, in my own company, but also, if I don't want to challenge something today.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Tina]
Because I'm not ready for it, or I just don't want to, I won't.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah. Brilliant.
[Tina]
I'm comfortable saying I'll pick this up tomorrow, or I will go and speak to you next week about that.
[Tina]
Oh, because, uh… the trick is controlling how you want to play your day out.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yes, yes Exactly. We can't control other people, but you can always control you.
[Tina]
Yes, absolutely.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah, I love that so much. So is there anything that we haven't spoken about that you want to touch on?
[Tina]
But the thing is, I can talk all day long, so… Uh, I mean, I've enjoyed our chat, and it's, um It's been absolutely lovely, just to… Just say it out loud, or… and I… to remember all these things happened.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think kind of… You are very welcome.
[Tina]
Um, so… Yeah, thank you so much, Nikki.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
And once I stop recording, let's have a chat about what the next podcast would be like, because I think that would be really lovely to have some, maybe, hints and tips for working mums and working women, that we maybe don't know about would be really fascinating.
[Tina]
Um, I would love to be able to share some of my experience, not… you know, I'm not a working mum. I am a working auntie, though.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah, yeah.
[Tina]
But I, uh… have lots of knowledge about working mums, some of them positive, some of them negative.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah. Yeah.
[Tina]
Because they don't know what to do. So, I'd like to be able to say.
[Tina]
What you can and can't do, and don't be afraid to say this or do this on maternity leave, or… Or, you know, what protections are out there.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah. Yeah.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Yeah, that would be brilliant. Well, well, I'll stop recording and we'll talk about that off the recording Thank you so, so much for coming and speaking to me today. I'll put Tina's contacts In the show notes, so that if you want to follow her on LinkedIn, check out her, um, the website and the business she works in.
[Tina]
Okay.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
And obviously, if you need any employment law advice, it sounds like you might be the person to go to.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
That's incredible. But yeah, thank you so much for your time!
[Tina]
Been great, thank you.
[Nicky Bevan, The Working Mums Life Coach]
Bye!