The Working Womens Podcast

Ep #86 - Be Curious, Not Furious: Breaking the Evening “Treat” Loop with Nan

• Nicky Bevan

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Today I’m joined by the brilliant Nan – a former Life Coach School coach of 5+ years and now “The Cravings Coach” – to talk about evening overeating, wine o’clock, and why that so-called “treat” often feels anything but a treat the next day. We’re not talking macros or meal plans; this is the emotional side of eating and how to get your power back.

Nan shares her own story of being “good all day” then raiding the kitchen at night, and how she now helps women – including those who crush it in the gym and hit their macros – stop the pantry calling their name. We dig into the “toddler brain vs adult brain” dynamic, the five-minute look-ahead that changes everything, and the phrase I’m stealing: “be curious, not furious.”

You’ll learn practical tools to pause an urge without white-knuckling: tiny challenges that build self-trust, swapping quick-hit dopamine from cake for the deeper satisfaction of keeping your word to yourself, and redefining what a real treat is (spoiler: you won’t die without the cake). We also chat mindful indulgence (hello, picky dark-chocolate lovers) and how leading by example can give your friends permission to do the same.

Nan works globally and hosts a free weekly webinar on breaking night-time binges – links in the show notes. If you’re a busy working woman who’s brilliant at getting sh*t done but feels stuck in the evening “I deserve it” loop, this one’s for you.


To discover more from Nan, check out the links below.

Step 1: Start Here — Get Inspired by Real Stories & Practical Tools

Let Nan's experience as a coach support you. These free resources are a great way to begin:

 

Step 2: Ready to Stop Overeating? Use These Free Mini-Guides

Simple tools to help you feel more in control — starting today:

 

Step 3: Let’s Connect!

Let’s chat 1:1 about your goals:

You can also watch this episode on YouTube with Captions - https://www.youtube.com/@TheWorkingWomensLifeCoach

If you'd like to have a chat about how I can help you further, please don't hesitate to click here & book a time with me, I'd love to meet you.

You can also follow me on IG @NickyBevan_LifeCoach

Nicky: Welcome, everybody, to this week's podcast. And I have a guest with me. I'm gonna let Nan introduce herself in just a second. But it's quite a funny little scenario as to why Nan's joining me today, because… You used to coach me. Back in the life coach school days, I always used to try and get Nan… our time zones were very similar. so I always used to try and get you as my coach, because I love your coaching style. And obviously, we've all moved on now, so we had a catch-up a couple of… Well, months ago, actually, wasn't it? Before the summer. And I was like, come and talk to me about everything you do, and tell us your wisdom. Around what you do and how you do it. So. I'll let you introduce yourself first.

Nan: Right, well, thank you so much, yes, and it was also such a delight to have you, because I love your energy, I love your accent. And it was always so, yeah, so nice to see you on my calendar. I was always excited. So yes, as you said. I've been working for… well, I worked for the life coach school for 5 plus years. And coaching all types of people, and for all sorts of issues, and it was fascinating. And I actually got into coaching because my main issue was that I couldn't stop eating. I was good all day, you know, doing what I wanted to do for my work. I used to be a teacher, an English teacher in Paris. And, doing all the right things, checking all the boxes, and night came. And I was exhausted, and I thought that the only way for me… now I see it this way, the only way for me to relax. To get some relief, maybe to reward myself, too, was to eat my favorite foods. So, cake. Chocolate, cookies, that sort of thing. And I… Well, I didn't know how to break that cycle, because it was not comfortable. In the moment, it felt like, yeah, that's good. But, it felt.

Nan: Yeah, it repeated itself day after day, and of course, I was not happy with the way I looked, the way I felt. So, that's what made me look for a solution, and I found life coaching, and that's how my life changed. So. I then decided to dive deeper and become a certified life coach. But just so that I would learn more about this, and I loved it so much. And, um… And then there was this opportunity at the life coach call, so I clicked, yeah, let's see what happens, let's… You know, apply, and they hired me. So, that's how I made so many amazing people, and had such a blast for… yeah, four or five plus years now.

Nicky: Yeah. Nice. And so now, with your own private practice. What is it that you mostly coach on, or who do you want to mostly coach?

Nan: Right, so I mostly coach women. Who struggle with overeating of every kind. It can be grazing, you know, throughout the day. Or binge, as I used to do at night, or, you know, not being able to say no to their mom's lasagna, or things like that, when they don't thought, actually, that. And, and I'm actually very interested in. Bodybuilding, weightlifting, etc, so I'm very interested in those women who do their best in the gym, they crush it in the gym, they hit their macros during the day, they're really proud of themselves. But life comes. And then… the fridge, the pantry called their names, and they don't know what to do to…

Nicky: Yeah. To break the spell, or the, I heard somebody say, the voodoo, it's as if they're, you know, under, like a voodoo doll, and. They don't know what to do, so I really help them, I love helping them, you know, do what I did, which is, yeah, change that. Shift that.

Nan: Yeah. So incredible. And I think the reason why I'm so excited about having our conversation today is because both you and I focus on the emotional element of.

Nicky: Absolutely. This is not going to be a nutritional conversation. What you should or shouldn't eat. I think what we're going to be definitely diving into is the… Like you say, that kind of… that… at the end of the day, when you're exhausted, I want to feel better, I'll just… it's a… I deserve a glass of wine. I deserve to relax, it's a treat.

Nan: Yeah.

Nicky: Mm-hmm. What we don't actually consider is the long-term effects. Of that so-called treat, because it's not a treat to feel like shit the next day, or have weight gain, or lack of energy. So, do you want to speak more about that kind of side of it? Oh, totally. And I love the way you described it. This is exactly… So true, so real. And I like to describe it as a tunnel vision. All of a sudden, all that matters is the right… the moment right now, and we completely forget the impact that we know is going to… it's going to have on our body, on our day, the next day.

Nan: Yeah. And, I love to think about our brain and the ways that there's the toddler brain. And the adult brain. The adult, the one who wakes up the next morning and feels terrible, bloated, and full of guilt, or full of shame, man. Regret. This is the grown-up brain who… knows that, nope, this is not what we do want for us long-term, but in the moment, it's the toddler brain that speaks the most, or the loudest. It's just, I want this now! You know, what kids can be like, in supermarkets, in grocery stores. I want the lollipop!

Nicky: Yeah. Nowhere else? And this is actually so true, that's exactly the way I used to feel in the moment. Nothing else would matter but the peanut butter, or the chocolate, or the cake, or whatever. And I wanted it right now. And we completely forget. What we're going to do. But what I find fascinating is that most of my clients. When they actually manage to break this cycle, these urge, if only once, it's because they think about the next. What's going to happen next? It doesn't have to be in the super long term, you know, next month, or, you know, it's just…

Nan: Yeah. In the next 5 minutes, I'm going to regret this. And when they're able to shift. From that very moment to… What's next? Then, they take very different action, and sometimes they close the free zone, they close the cupboard, or they put the candy jar back on the shelf, and.

Nicky: Yeah. Yeah… That's fascinating.

Nan: Yeah. And it's so interesting, because sometimes when I'm coaching, I'm actually encouraging people. Come back to the very present moment. Like, come back to the present moment. Is your life under threat right now? Absolutely not. But when it comes to sugar… We kind of want to do the opposite, or wine, or cheese, or whatever your go-to relaxation is. It's kind of the opposite, isn't it? It's going, okay, right now, that toddler brain, that primitive brain, I call it Sue. She's screaming at me. To eat the whole bag of chocolate buns. But Nikki, just for a minute, who's learning how to be in charge, and I think I said that to myself repeatedly when I was. Learning how to get control of my sugar cravings, was… Hang on a minute. Um…

Nicky: Mm-hmm. What is going to be the consequence? If I… you know, if I carry on and eat, well, I am going to feel shit. And then what happens. Is my teenage brain comes in. And my teenage brain goes, why can't I eat the sugar? Like, why can't… Then I have to have a conversation not only with the toddler, but now the teenager, because I'm trying to be the adult in all of this. But it's… isn't it so… Incredible. Oh, I love it. When you learn that skill of. Being okay feeling that urge. Totally. I miraculously, it does pass. I just think that was one of the most… and then we can apply that to any of our emotions, obviously. But I think, for me, that revelation that, okay, I don't actually have to follow what this voice is telling me. I can be okay feeling the urge. And not eat the thing, and not die. Like, this… and then feel great tomorrow.

Nan: Right. Yes, and I get what you're saying, and I love what you're saying about going back to… coming back to the present moment, and it's actually what we do if we… yeah, if we think about the impact it's going to have. We also can come back to, okay, right now I'm experiencing an urge, I'm experiencing a craving.

Nicky: Okay, what is it like in my body? What… what is it… yeah, where is it? What does it look like? And, and it's also… we can also… use that urge or that craving as a signal, something must be going on right now for me, so that. The candy jar, the chocolate, or whatever seems to be so appealing right now. What's going on for me? What seems so unbearable or painful? That I need to turn to the chocolate to comfort myself. Yes.

Nan: Right? So, I love that, because then it goes back to what you were saying, it's just. We can, in the moment, we can let go of this urge by focusing on it, but we can also. Explore and let go too, about maybe the stress, maybe there's. I don't know, um… bored feeling, or loneliness that we feel. Maybe at the end of the day, or whenever we want.

Nicky: Yeah. The food. Yeah, so it's… you're right, it's always also bringing us back to the present moment. Okay, what's… what's going on for me right now? And as you said, it can go very fast. Contrary to when we eat, we think it's comforting us, but actually, the reason why we were eating in the first place, whether it's stress, boredom, loneliness, you name it. It's still there. It's just covered with chocolate and cake on top of it, and then we create regret, so… It's like the lasagna thing, but… Not the best, kind of. Oh, can't hear you. I can't hear you, why can't I hear you? My microphone must… might have just died, and am I back on now? You are back on. Is that everybody? I might as well take it off, then, if it's not working. So, if that's the case, the sound quality may have just changed, if you're listening. And if you hear any background noise, that might be my family. But that's okay, this is life, we'll carry on regardless, because that's what we do. So, coming back to… you were saying about, yeah, when we… actually learned to deal with. Manage the stress or the boredom, or the loneliness, or whatever it is that we're avoiding by eating in the first place. If we don't address that underlying emotion, then all that's happening is now. We are gonna feel it the next day, but now we're feeling it with a sugar hangover, maybe an alcohol hangover, weight gain, foggy brain. So, it's never like we're actually addressing the root cause of the problem, we're just always. Continuing to cover it up. Yes, absolutely, yes, and that's a realization that took me a while to acknowledge, and… Yeah, and… and let go, because I… It felt so… like, really, this was the fix. The food was going to fix whatever I was feeling.

Nan: Yeah. But then, yeah, I had a lot of opportunities to realize that, no, you feel worse the next day. So if you're in the… if in the moment it seems like the.

Nicky: Yeah. Best solution. Look, it's not. And also, I realized, you know. Going back to the present, as you said earlier on, I realized that what I thought was amazing, tasted so good, etc, when I took the time to slow down.

Nan: Yeah… Actually, it was not. It didn't make me feel better, it was more the ID I had of, okay, if I eat this, then I'll feel better, than the reality of it. And it took for me to slow down and really focus on what I was eating. And what it was feeling like in my body as I was eating it, to realize that, no, you think. It's making you feel good, but actually. Not that much, so… I did that, exercise with pizza. So I… pizza's something that I thought I really loved. Mmm… And then I really consciously one day sat and very… very consciously looked at. The taste of pizza, how it felt in my mouth, and I was like. This actually doesn't taste that nice. This actually isn't… Or that it's made out to be. I have to admit, I haven't quite got there with croissants yet, and being in Paris, I mean, you must just be surrounded by beautiful food everywhere. But isn't it fascinating, then, on that comment that I've just made, how beautiful we instantly go to processed? Whereas actually… The reframe of beautiful could be… You know, natural, homemade. Everything. Rather than going to the pro… like, I just went to Croissants and pizza, but.

Nicky: Yeah, it's so fascinating.

Nan: Yeah. Right, and you're right, there are quite small everywhere in Paris, and even at the bottom of my building.

Nicky: Yeah. Yes. There's a bakery. So, you can't avoid them. So that's why I really needed to learn what to do, so that I wouldn't stop at every bakery in Paris.

Nan: Yeah. Then just stuff myself. So, it's really a good skill. And yes, and it's so fascinating to see that, yes, indeed, we tend to go towards processed food, and. And, food, we use lots of sugar. Because that's where the dopamine, comes from, and… Yes. But I love that, also. We can reduce, you know, it's just like turning down the volume on the remote control, on the TV. We can turn down the attraction, the desire, the impulse, the urge, the craving, however you name it. For a type of food. And that's what I actually did with croissant, because I thought, oh. So good! Croissants pas chocolat, chocolate bun. Um… I thought that was really good, but then, when I slowed down, I realized, no, actually, I don't feel very well after eating them, so that helped, that really helped me. Stop creating the memos. And now I realize that I still like chocolate, I still love chocolate, but not any chocolate. Now, I'm very picky. It has to be this dark chocolate with coconuts from this particular brand, otherwise. Yes. Yes! No, thank you. It's so easy to turn down food now, even at restaurants, when everybody's ordering dessert, it's just like. No, I'm usually very disappointed about the dessert that I get. So, I know exactly what I want. This particular square of dark chocolate that I can have at home.

Nicky: Yeah. In Mayo time, really savoring it, rather than this, in this restaurant, nope, it sounds good, but. I get disappointed so often that it's not worth it.

Nan: Yeah. Yeah, I love that you said that about the dark chocolate, because I…, so in England, we've got Cadbury's. I mean, they probably are international, but I hear from my sister-in-law in Canada that it's definitely not the same if you do get caberies abroad, but…, I used to love, especially chocolate buttons. especially with a suite called Squashies that are, like, these pink and white… GUI, jelly, sweetie things. but now… I just… it's… for a start, it's too sweet, which blows my mind. But I do really love a good quality dark chocolate. For me, preferably mint. I love peppermint and chocolate together. I've just started making my own dairy-free, actually, sugar-free, or my gosh, it's delicious. But I have to not tell my children I've made it, otherwise they eat it without savoring it! I'm like, no! But it's… but it doesn't make me feel shit on the other side. I can have it. And still feel good. That's a treat. Like, when your body is feeling good. That is a treat. Not when it's feeling shit. So I'm curious… When you're coaching your ladies. I've noticed if… There's a bit of a self-relationship issue as well underneath all of this. Now, you said most of your ladies are doing the right thing during the day. They're going to the gym. And yet, they can't quite figure out this binging in the evening, or whenever they do it. Do you see that as a relationship issue? With themselves as well. Like, so for me, is that we don't… we look after the things we love. We don't look after the things we hate, not that a hate is a really strong word, not people would use that, but. Hmm… Right, but I see what you're doing. I wonder if that ties into all of this as well. I think it does. I think you're onto something. Yes, I think it does, because… Well, what we tend to do is, when we don't… Do what we think would be best for us, we tend to beat ourselves up. So, that's very common, that.

Nicky: Yeah. Those questions, I shouldn't have eaten that, what's wrong with me? Why did I do that again? That we're being furious, you know, we're using the stick instead of the carrot.

Nan: Yeah. Just because we think that if we beat ourselves up enough time, then we'll understand, then we'll change our. Yes. Or behavior. But actually, what I've come to notice is that it's the complete opposite. When we're going to beat ourselves up, we don't want to be curious, we don't want to be kind, we just want to ignore the whole issue. And so we actually, unwillingly, keep doing it, and we… yes, and as you said, it kind of destroys our relationship with ourselves, because we keep. On the one hand, beating ourselves up, and then on the other hand, mistreating our body without knowing how to do it better.

Nicky: Yeah. And maybe you were right, maybe at the very beginning. It's also something about. I don't… maybe it's not a Haiti issue, but it could be. But maybe it's… I don't know how to treat myself to feel better, because. If we consider it, we've been taught from a very young age that. Whatever emotions we're feeling. Food is the answer. If you scrape your knees, well, have a cookie. You don't know what to do, well, have some, I don't know, candies or something.

Nan: Yeah. And food is also what we do when we want to celebrate. It's very linked to, yeah. Feeling good equals food. Eating food.

Nicky: Yeah. So it would make sense that we… try to solve for emotional… Issues, or life. With food, and then we propitiated this, and then…

Nan: Yeah. The more we do it, the more we blame ourselves for doing it. And it's just, like, syncing in quickset, and it's just harder and harder. To get out of it, and to build that better, loving relationship with yourself.

Nicky: Yeah, it's so true. Yeah. And then, what came… But it can be solved. What came first for you, the bodybuilding or the food? Definitely the food, yes. Although, I had always dreamed. Of, you know, looking strong, looking good, looking fit, but… because I was binge eating so much, I had known. I… well, I had no results. I couldn't see muscle definition. So, it was so easy to give up. But yes, I needed to start, I needed to… You know, tackle my eating first? So that then, I could think.

Nan: Okay, now I'm going to do this, and now I'm going to see… You know, the body, I want to see. And also. Learning the skill to stop. Eating whatever was inside. Taught me that I could trust myself. To want to do something, and to actually do it, and that was huge. And you can start very slow, you know, just a tiny thing, like.

Nicky: Yeah. The other day, I was running, and I turned to myself, okay, can I sprint until the next tree? And I did. And can I sprint until the next mailbox?

Nan: Yeah. I did, and it's just, you know, giving yourself some very tiny, doable challenges like this, it builds your self-confidence. It's the very same with food. It's the very same when you lift weight. Yes. Can I lay that just a little bit more? Can I lift, can I do one more rep? Can I load a little bit more on my dumbbell? And, it's just, okay, can I challenge myself to wait for just one second?

Nicky: Yeah. Before I actually get the cookie. That's how we build confidence, trust with ourselves, and that can grow.

Nan: Yeah. Yes. It's just like a snowball. It's just, okay. First, maybe you need to think to take the snowflakes one in, but after all. After a while, it just falls on its own, and it's easy.

Nicky: Yeah, I'm not so good. So that lesson right back at the beginning, what we were saying about, right, okay. Think about the consequence of this. Like, instead of just going with it in the moment, think about 5 minutes from now, or tomorrow morning.

Nan: Absolutely. Exactly the same applies to going to the gym, doesn't it? Okay, I don't want to go now, but how will I feel 5 minutes once I'm there? Okay, will I… you know, I might just be starting to get into it. Well, how will I feel tomorrow morning? Amazing, because I did something that I said I was going to do. And then there's all the physical elements attached to it as well, so… The same skill when practiced, applies to both of those, doesn't it? Totally, yes. And a lot of, yes. How will I feel when I've done it? Well, I know that a very common emotion that comes up for my clients, but also for me, is. Proud. I want to feel proud of myself. And it's easy to feel proud of yourself when you give yourself very tiny challenges, just like. Can I just put, you know, my sports shoes in my bag? Yes, okay.

Nicky: Yeah. Check. I've done it! Amazing! And you can, on purpose, create that pride. Yes. Yeah. So, first of all, it's super fun, and then it really is going to… spread, you know, have this ripple effect on. And the whole experience. That's so much fun.. Yeah.

Nan: Yeah. And then, we get dopamine from that. And then that dopamine that we get, because dopamine is a motivator, so if you're getting your dopamine from cakes, chocolate. Wine, whatever, you're going to continue to be motivated. Whereas if you're getting your dopamine from the celebration. You're gonna be more motivated towards that behaviour. And then that dopamine grows. But that dopamine enhances your life, versus the dopamine that you get from. Chocolate, or wine reduced… That's what I was going to say, totally, yes. One gets you closer to a happier life that suits you, that matches your desire, and the other one keeps you stuck in.

Nicky: Yeah. Yeah. So interesting. So, if you were gonna give. An endless cycle of, yeah, you can't get out of it, so… I think you've already covered it, but if you were going to give one tip. For someone to… whoever's listening, to go away and practice this afternoon. What would you say that would be? Well, I think the best tip. That worked for me and for so many of my clients, is to be curious. Not curious. So, you know, what we were talking about when. You've eaten something, you didn't mean to eat, but… So it seems irresistible at the time. Try to be curious, not furious, and by that I mean, instead of, why did I do that? Again, and what's wrong with me? Try to ask the curious version of why. It's just, oh, I wonder why I did that. And so it's the same word, why, but with a totally different intention, totally different tone. And that's going to help you open up and explore and, okay.

Nan: Yeah. What was going on for me? Why did I do that generally? What can I do better next time?

Nicky: Yeah. even if it's just a tiny thing, instead of, why did I do that again? Which is a dead end. Once you've said that, you just feel terrible, and it doesn't help at all. Be curious, not furious.

Nan: Yeah. Yeah. I love that! I've never heard those two put together, but it goes beautifully, doesn't it? Be curious, not furious. Yes. You're very welcome, yes, absolutely. I might take that into my coaching, if I may. Thank you. Um… So, is there anything. That we haven't covered that you think is relevant to… Helping people overcome, like, the binging and the food cycles.

Nicky: Right. I think that maybe, um… Well, maybe what's relevant and what's really important, too, is to have a vision. You know, it's like when you start to drive a car, it's… Yes. The goal is not just to drive, it's to get to a destination. So maybe thinking about that, who you want to be, what you want your life to be like. That could be super friend first, and also it's going to keep you focused on, okay, this is what I want. So for me, it was, I want to be strong, I want to be fit. I've got a 106-year-old grandmother, so that's the main motivation for me. I want to be as strong as possible for the longest time possible. Wow. Yeah. Considering my genes. We'll see. So, that's my motivation. And so, yeah, I like to ask my clients, okay.

Nan: Yeah. What do you want? And this motivation is super important, because when it gets tough, and of course, unfortunately, it will, from time to time for. Yes. And this reasons. You want to go back to that reason, or those reasons why you're doing this. And I like to think of it in two different ways. What you don't want. And what you do want. So, for instance, what you've experienced in the past, maybe it's back pain, maybe it's. You know, not fitting in your jeans, and you no longer want that. But also, what you don't want in the future, maybe it's to get diabetes or, you know, diseases like this. That's not fun. And what you do want instead, so… Feel good in the moment, you know, or learn how to manage an emotion.

Nicky: Yeah. In 5 seconds, 1 minute? And that's it. Let it go. And what you do want in the long term, which is, yes, maybe. Not, react whenever there's a plate of brownies in front of you, and maybe it's also to have an influence on the people around you, maybe your kids, maybe your partner, maybe… your friends, and… show them that, yes, it's possible to change, because lots of people don't think it's possible for them to change, so… Having you as a change, as a picture of change, that can be so… you know, inspiring.

Nan: Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it? And I think that…, kind of leading by example is so very powerful, like. Influencing someone because you're… you've done it, and showing them a way that they could also do it, without judgement. I think it's really… it's inviting them to take up the opportunity also, isn't it? Totally, yes. Giving them hope that it is possible.

Nicky: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, and I think what's really fascinating, especially around sugar particularly. because I think if… Well, I suppose when I… I've given up alcohol as well, and that has bothered me not, because I wasn't a huge. at-home drinkers, certainly. It was just when I was ever out. So that… I found that really easy to give up, and I… I don't really ever get any questions. When I say, oh no, I don't drink, no one really ever questions it. But when I say, oh no, I don't really have cake, they're like. What? What do you mean you don't have cake? Like, society… Society finds it difficult to accept. That someone doesn't eat… cake. and yes, I do have, you know, croissants on occasions, but even that's not… it's certainly not a… even a weekly or monthly occurrence. But it is fascinating when you say to someone, no, I don't really eat chocolate, or I didn't really eat cake. They just… they… Because we've been so conditioned. That it's a treat, and a luxury, and it's going to make us feel better, and all the conditioning that we've had. How society find it very hard. To accept that could be a possibility for them. So when you then sit there and don't have a… dessert when you're out with your friends. And you don't die, and you feel better the next day… That maybe just might give them the opportunity to go. okay. Well, maybe I could do that.

Nan: Yeah, so sweet. No, I love that. And yes, we don't die from not having a piece of cake. They do! So funny! I always love looking at it, like, in that moment. Fancy that! When I, like, when… when Sue wants the chocolate, or she wants the cake, or whatever it is. And with the croissant as well. I just have to remind myself, like. Having… not having this food. Is not life-threatening. Hmm… Not having this food could actually be a life-enhancing moment. So we don't really need our toddler primitive brain's opinion. We don't need to really take it into account, because right now, this is not a life. Threatening scenario. That primitive part of our brain is brilliant when we are… But choosing what we're gonna eat… Actually, we want our higher wisdom. And our knowledge, and that part of our brain, because. What we eat is life-enhancing, and if we continue to eat all the sugar, drink all the alcohol. We're not going to be the best version of us out.

Nicky: Yeah. Totally. No, and also. what… when we actually, um… Eat something, and we think it's so important to have it right now, I like to remember myself that. To remind myself that, actually, tomorrow, I probably… I've completely forgotten. Yes. That I had this, so does it… will it really matter in the long game, if I have it or not have it, and it's easy then to let go, just, okay.

Nan: Yeah, as you said, I'm not going to die, and I'm not going to change my… my next day or next week, very much. And also, I've realized that. Yes. When I'm having the food, very often I disconnect after the first 3 bites, I disconnect, and I think about something else. Maybe having more, maybe something completely different. And so, if I'm not really enjoying it, you know, fully, mindfully.

Nicky: Yeah. Yeah. As we do, then… Is it really going to be worth it? And it's really asking myself that question. Is it really worth it?

Nan: Yeah. Yeah. If I'm not completely present with it. And then it's easy to think, oh no, I can't… I can. Do without, it's okay.

Nicky: Yeah, so good. So if people want to find you. Well, they can find me on my, website, which is. How do they do that? Www.thecravingscoach.fr, so cravings with an S. And.fr, because I'm in France.

Nan: Yeah. And, and they can also join my, free webinar, which is on Tuesday, every Tuesday. And which is around how to stop binging at night, and why we do that, and of course, how to break the cycle. So, you're very welcome if you want to. Great. Yeah. Join this free webinar, it's going to be super fun. You're going to have lots of, aha moments. Brilliant. Oh, I love that. We'll put all the links in the show notes anyway, so people can just click on the link. to find you. And it… what I think is brilliant with that is that whilst you can hear that she's French and she lives in… near Paris. You… a lot of what you teach is virtual anyway, so you don't need… it doesn't matter where in the world you're listening from. That is available to you, should you resonate with her. Yeah. Totally. That's what I love about the internet, and yeah, we can go anywhere in the world, it's just… and English really helps, so…

Nicky: Yeah. Yeah, that's it, yeah. Thank you so much for joining me today, it's been so lovely to talk to you and hear your wisdom around…

Nan: Thank you so much for having me, it was so fun!

Nicky: Yeah, thank you so much, and I'll see everybody. Bye!