Ep #90 - Choose Your Meaning, Change Your Marriage with Naomi Stonier

What if the way you interpret things is the lever that changes everything at home? In this lighthearted conversation with relationship coach Naomi Stonier, we unpack how choosing your meaning—moment by moment—can shift a marriage from tense and reactive to grounded and loving. Naomi shares her own story (including nine rounds of IVF) and how doing the work herself changed the dynamic for everyone around her. 

We dig into:

• Influence vs control — you can’t control your partner, but you can influence the relationship when you lead with love, not judgement. 
• The emotional pause — noticing big feelings without letting them drive the bus; responding instead of reacting. 
• Stable ambiguity — why staying stuck feels “safer” and how to choose your discomfort to create real change. 
• Get specific about needs — e.g. “more hugs”, and dropping unhelpful “rules” that make love harder to receive. 
• One person can shift a couple — go first, and let the data of your results guide the next step. 
• Coaching vs therapy — why coaching can fast-track the lessons so they compound for life. 

Questions we keep coming back to:

• What am I finding difficult? What do I need? What do I want?
• What would love do here? (and yes, sometimes love says “no”). 

If you’re a busy, big-hearted woman juggling work, family and the mental load—and you’re done with white-knuckling your way through your relationship—this episode will give you practical, no-fluff tools you can use today. 

Connect with Naomi: https://naomistonier.com/ (book a free chat) — she’s also on LinkedIn, YouTube and Facebook. 

https://youtube.com/@naomistoniercoaching?si=h92TY1XhpAXWVy5j

https://www.facebook.com/naomi.stonier.7547

https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-stonier/

If this helped, please follow, rate and share with a friend who needs a loving nudge. And if you want support applying this in your real life, you can always book a consult with me. Let’s make space for the relationship—and the life—you actually want.

You can also watch this episode on YouTube with Captions - https://www.youtube.com/@TheWorkingWomensLifeCoach

If you'd like to have a chat about how I can help you further, please don't hesitate to click here & book a time with me, I'd love to meet you.

You can also follow me on IG @NickyBevan_LifeCoach

Transcript

Nicky Bevan: Welcome, welcome, welcome, everybody, to this week's podcast, and I have my most delicious friend. who I haven't actually spoke to for ages, Naomi Stonia joining me. She is a relationship coach. And the fact that we haven't actually spoke for quite a while now, and when we do speak, it usually goes… We are gonna try, aren't we, Naomi to keep our conversation relevant to coaching. But, as is always the case, I don't have any plans, so we're just going to be guided by our. passion. But do you want to start by telling everybody.

Tell us all about yourself, and what you do. 

Naomi Stonier: Brilliant. Well, I think telling you my story is the best way to go, that… , makes the most sense for everybody. I mean, first of all, my name's Naomi Stonia, I run Naomi Stonia Coaching, I am a romantic relationship coach for individuals and couples.

And the reason I do this work, the reason I am so passionate about this work is because it's my journey. I have gone from dysfunctional relationships from childhood, which I took into adulthood, that were repeating in my adult world. , and I was really struggling. I was… I wasn't just struggling in family life.

I was struggling in my work. Work was really difficult, , friendships weren't great. And I lived on the emotional rollercoaster, and life was really difficult, and I hit a crunch point. when I experienced infertility.

And I was desperate to have a big family, because I thought that was going to give me all the love I needed. I was always going to be needed. I was very… I felt very fearful of ending up alone. And I thought the solution was a big family, but that didn't happen.

We were lucky enough to have one beautiful daughter. But we, no matter how many times I tried, and I tried 9 times, 9 rounds of IV yet to have another daughter. we didn't get to have another one, and that was the moment when I had to just stop and think, what's going on here? Life shouldn't be this difficult.

And that was the moment I found relationship coaching. And I initially did the work as an individual. I just knew I had stuff I needed to work on. I got coached.

It completely changed everything for me, and the most amazing thing about it is the effect it had on everybody else, even though I was the only one to get coached. And I ended up setting up my own business, and now I work with couples too. Me and my husband have done couples coaching too. And yeah, that's what I do.

That's it, that's the story. 

Nicky Bevan: Amazing. So good. So, tell me a little bit more detail about what you mean by the emotional rollercoaster.

Naomi Stonier: Well, I thought life felt it was happening to me. Life was coming at me. all these things were happening to me. And the beautiful thing… , I've done lots of therapy.

And I love therapy. Therapy kept me going. work through in university, I turned to it. And also through my infertility journey, it was… it was, , they kept me functioning.

But I got to a stage where I didn't want to just cope. I wanted more, and it was… , it kept me functioning, but how do I change? How do I be different? And life coaching, relationship coaching taught me how I was creating my experience. And that was the moment when life felt out of control, and that was the moment when I got back in control, because instead of this all happening to me, instead of my boss coming at me, , the weather, the traffic. what my husband did or said. It was the moment where I got back in control of my life, because it's you create your experience, you choose the meaning every moment, moment to moment, and it was a huge revelation. And I got back in control of life. Because before, it was this rollercoaster of. , all of this stuff was coming at me, and I had no… I controlled everything to try not to do everything, but was controlling all the wrong things.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah. Oh, I love that. So, what were you trying to control when you say the wrong things? 

Naomi Stonier: So, I would, … I would… so, for instance. I would plast… to hide the anxiety, the level of anxiety I was in. Yeah. I would, , plaster myself in makeup, and I would wear turtleneck, so you couldn't sit. I would flush.

I would… I'd be having panic attacks, and I would be… and I had to wear this mask. So you… you couldn't see how traumatized I was. So that was an example of something that I did. , I would… , control what I eat, I would, , I would be trying to, , in the workplace.

I would be trying to control myself all the time in the workplace. Which just must be exhausting. So yeah, it was that thing. It was absolutely exhausting.

I had some other great examples, and they've just gone out of my head. Yeah. But, , yeah, I mean, it was… over-functioning, , if I got everything on the… if I got everything on the to-do list, Dan, if the house was super clean. , and this is what I grew up with.

Nicky Bevan: So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is really funny, because in the time I've known you, and how long have we known each other now? I don't know, , 4 years? Is it 4 years when we first met in TimeHackers? I can't remember. 

Naomi Stonier: Yeah, maybe 4 or 5 years. 

Nicky Bevan: Yeah, and when you said I would be classes in makeup, I can't even imagine that version of you, because I've never met her. Sue, tell me a bit about what you're now. Yeah, that's it.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah, I mean, yeah, , another… the most obvious way I was trying to control life, this is what I blanked on. Yeah. was trying to have lots of kids. But, , if I could… , it was trying so hard my fertility… It was, , trying so hard to control that, , if I have all these children, then I'll be okay. So it's just , but, , my body, , trying to… that's why I had all these rounds of IVF. Because it's … and that was a form of control, , I must, must have this, I'll be okay when I have this, ? Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: So, compared to what you're now, tell us about what you're now. 

Naomi Stonier: Yeah. So now, it's the ability to, … be aware, one of how you're creating your emotions. And to no longer be in your emotions.

So no longer living at the mercy of them. So now it's the ability to experience a very uncomfortable emotion. , and be okay with that. , physically be able to cope with strong emotion.  another way was an absolute terror of public speaking, so I avoided all of that. And so now, it's just that ability to feel embarrassed, to feel scared. Yeah. To feel hurt, to feel angry, and to be watching and in awareness of that… those sensations, instead of in them and at the mercy of them, and believing.

Yes, yes. Nice. It's your fault that I'm feeling this. Yeah.

And then you obviously go to controlling other people, don't you? No, I was trying to control my daughter. And my husband, , was very controlling over what everyone asked. I wanted it all to be very healthy.

one of that thing. So now, it's just that stepping back. Yeah. And watching… what's going on and not immediately reacting to it.

So, emotional pauses, emotional… Brazilience. It's a skill that no one teaches us, and you can learn it. Yeah. You got it!

Naomi Stonier: Why? I know, I know! And this is what I wish I could shake everybody and go, you have a fucking choice, with so much love. I love what you said earlier, you choose the meaning to any given situation.

Naomi Stonier: And no one tells us that. No one actually says, your brain's gonna give you a whole load of thoughts. No. You're going to think those thoughts are true, but mostly they're not.

Naomi Stonier: They're just absolute bullshit. so much kindness. But not only that, you not only, … the thing is, is we somehow are led to believe that we should know. We somehow think.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We should just know how to do all of this, when there is no manual, there is no class at school.

Nicky Bevan: No. not only, , we're banging the drum, you and I, to tell people, hey, you can learn this stuff here, do you want to come and learn it? So we're doing that. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: But we've also got to get past the fact that people think they should just know. Yeah. that is, , ever… is every day in all of my sessions, is this deep shame that I… what's wrong with me? Yes.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah, yeah. I should know. And then also, what's wrong with you? You should know.

Nicky Bevan: This is what you do to your partner. You should… there's something wrong with you. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: Isn't it fascinating how… I hear the same. Most people… well, and I say most, every single person that comes and speaks to me thinks that their brain is the only one that's negative. And that there must be something wrong with them. They're the over-thinker.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah. Yeah, we're all thinking the same… things. We all think we're an over-thinker, we all think there's something wrong with us. And you're , if only everybody could hear that everybody was saying the same thing.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and… and also, it's… , a lot of my couples work is about understanding that. experiences that you had when you were younger are… , that kid.

Naomi Stonier: , our society is individual empowerment. We're not all relational empowerment. And for a lot of people. parenting, , pa… parents, in that moment, when that little kid was dealing with a situation, and there wasn't an adult there to guide you, because frankly, even if there was, no one's taught them these skills, and they're not guiding.

Naomi Stonier: That little kid in the moment just did the best it could, and then that little kid. And then we keep that way of doing it into adulthood. So, , I'm… You've got big T trauma and little t trauma, so… If you weren't beaten and locked in a cupboard, you say, oh, there's nothing wrong with me. I'm afraid, , if your mum was out working till 9pm every night.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah. They weren't around to parent, and you were just doing the best you could, and you've taken those skills into adulthood, or if your parents might not have been beating each other up if they were giving each other silent treatment, the screaming and shouting at each other. Yeah. Yeah.

Naomi Stonier: That's created unhealthy habits for you that you now need to address. So, there's that as well. Yeah. Well, and also, it's interesting, isn't it?

Naomi Stonier: Because what, as you were talking then, I was just thinking about my upbringing, and on paper, my upbringing would have been idyllic. , and I didn't expect it… I didn't experience any, what you just said, big T trauma, so I wasn't beaten, I wasn't locked in a cupboard, I wasn't… stopped, or anything that. But… my mum was… She didn't have the emotional resilience to deal with her emotions, so she was, I now see, looking back. That's it.

Nicky Bevan: distant, emotionally. And I… and I did a… I didn't know that as a child. I wouldn't have… but looking back, I'm . Oh, that makes sense now that I have a bit of a victim neediness, because that's how I got her attention.

Nicky Bevan: Because if I didn't do that. She… she didn't know how to deal with her remote. She didn't have the skills, because we don't get taught it. And so she was only doing the best that she could do, but… and my dad the same.

Nicky Bevan: He wasn't given the skills, so he didn't know. how did, , and we don't… We don't think about stopping those cycles. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: That's it. So do you see that kid… had to parrot itself in the moment when Mum was emotionally absent, so that the kid, clever little kid, devised this strategy of. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: This is how I get what I need. And that… and it's brilliant. That's absolutely brilliant. Well done to that little kid, got what he needed.

Nicky Bevan: But becomes maladaptive then, maladaptive in adulthood, and then starts to become unhelpful in your relationship. Yeah, yeah. And it's simple work to… see it, and then adjust it. But we never do the work.

Naomi Stonier: , that's the problem. Yeah. No, no, because we think it's… yeah, we think it's easier for our husband to change, or it's easier for our kid to change. Wouldn't it be better if the weather just changed?

Naomi Stonier: Well, yes! If that was how the world works. Yes. Oh, God.

Naomi Stonier: I don't understand, that's not the issue. We don't understand that's not the issue. I mean, I hear very… this is a phrase I hear quite a lot, it was just a standard 70s childhood. That's what I hear people say, and I have to say.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah…
 diary absence is neglect. , far more children are taken from their homes because of neglect. Yeah. than they are from abuse.

Naomi Stonier: Neglect is a form of abuse. , if you had an emotionally absent parent, either they were there, or maybe they physically weren't there because they were working all the time, or maybe there was…
 Yeah. Yeah. four of you, and you didn't get the attention, and this is not helicopter parenting, it's just the facts, , if you don't lie, because people will say, oh my god, it's Molly codling.

Naomi Stonier: And I… oh, and we're all dismissing ourselves when we say that, but what I say to people is. Do you your results? Do you your results right now? No.

Nicky Bevan: Well, here's… this will help. Yes, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly, because you can't… And yes. ?

Nicky Bevan: If you're really happy, fine, don't do the work, but if you're unhappy, here's the answer. Yes. And then sometimes people go, well, why should I do the work when it's him that's the problem? And you're .

Nicky Bevan: or her that's the problem, or that, , my boss that's the problem, or the… And you're , but that isn't ever the problem. That…
 Well, it can be, it can be. I mean, what I do with people when I work with individuals, if for whatever reason we can't get the couple in, as I say. , give this a go, play Fallout for 6 months, and let's see if it shifts it.

Nicky Bevan: If they… people mirror us. So, if you make these changes, you show up giving what it is you want to receive. Hmm…
 it may well be mirrored back to you. And often it is, but if it isn't.

Nicky Bevan: Yes, yeah, because then you have a choice. Yeah. then that's valuable information. Then we've got a true picture, yeah.

Nicky Bevan: Well, you have a true picture of the relationship, and then… and then, , often people come together, but if they don't, I always say. go first! Go first! Give what it is you want to receive.

Naomi Stonier: And then, , let's get them into the session. I mean, ideally, you want to work together. You want to do this work together. Yeah.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah. And I… and I do think, fortunately, Johnny, so my husband and I have done the work together, , we're both life coaches, you're both coaches, aren't you? No, we're not. My husband didn't do the work.

Naomi Stonier: He's not ever going to get coached, my husband. He didn't do the work. Oh, really? I thought he was a coach, though.

Naomi Stonier: Oh, okay. he's a… he's a… he works in training, corporate training. He's in that self-development world, he's in that… development, , working on yourself well, but yeah, he's never gonna have a coach. Interesting.

Naomi Stonier: And that… it was an amazing journey, because he… we've both done a completely different route, but we've ended up in the same place. So, I went first, I did the work. I was the one who needed to do the work. , I had the big stuff.

Naomi Stonier: Yes. And I did that work, and he married me. , I liken it to, , you're in a tunnel. And no one… we're trying to get out of the tunnel, it's pitch black.

Nicky Bevan: It's , oh my god, how do we get out of this tunnel? And I got a flashlight when I started working with a coach, and I said, hey, I've got a flashlight, I can see the exit! Come on, come on! And I'd take him by the hand, and I was leading with the flashlight.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah, and then… and then, , he did mirror me, and then we got to a point where. Yeah. Oh. Yes.

Nicky Bevan: Where we started doing the work together. And it's about, we've got to stop calling each other out, and start calling each other in. , I invited him to join me here. With love, with kindness.

Nicky Bevan: I love you, will you come with me? Yeah? Yes. I love that, because I think a lot of us try to… I don't use the word mirroring as much, I would say influence.

Nicky Bevan: , you have an influence based on how you're thinking and feeling. You can influence somebody. You don't get to change them or control them, but you can influence them. Yeah, at best, you have influence.

Nicky Bevan: But when that influence is underpinned with love. That is so powerful. When it's underpinned with judgment, it's just gonna feel shit. And I think most people who are in the judgment camp.

Naomi Stonier: Well, we're waiting. I'm waiting for you to change. , I've stopped waiting, and I just started changing. Yeah.

Naomi Stonier: Yes. Yeah. And, , yeah, it was lovely. I mean, , you go through various stages.

Naomi Stonier: First of all, the killer, they don't even notice. That's the killer one. The next stage is they start taking the piss out of you, , oh my god, , my husband. Yeah.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah. I joined Nicole. Third stage is, , often they can up the ante, , people can get even more volatile, they can get more. go bigger.

Naomi Stonier: But yeah, and when you just stay the course, because you're doing it because you feel so much better. But yeah. Or, , many people want to work together. Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting, because.

Naomi Stonier: I only work with. , get a lot of 1.5 polls. I work with individuals. But I have coached… I have coached the husband and wife, but as individuals, never, never together.

Nicky Bevan: Okay. At the same time, do you do it at the same time? So, how does… I've coached… I've never coached them at the same time, so I've had one session with one, and then one session with another. But why are you at their coach at the same time?

Nicky Bevan: Yeah, I mean, I would find that very tricky. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's… well, I think that's when… our skill, our professional skill, is being able to take that step back. And knowing that everybody's thoughts are neutral, and it's not actually the… the circumstance that they think it is.

Nicky Bevan: , so I think that's when our, , professionalism steps up. And… but I do know a couple of people that I work with have said, oh, my… my… I would love my husband to come and speak to you. He would really benefit, but. he can't make that step because he thinks you're my coach, so I'm going to influence the conversation.

Nicky Bevan: And I'm . Well, isn't that fascinating? Because if you went to a G… you've probably got the same GPs. as a family.

Nicky Bevan: But you don't go, oh, I'm not going to go and talk to that GP because my wife spoke to her last week, or, , the GPs are professional, aren't they? Doctors are professional, as are we. in that coaching relationship, so I always… I always find that really fascinating. Yeah, I mean… Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah. It's funny. So, you said earlier… You choose the meaning. Tell me more about that.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah. Well, , I mean, on the simplest… the simplest example I can give you is someone tells a joke, you laugh and I don't. I mean, it's that simple, isn't it? We choose the meaning.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah. on a bigger scale, two women lose their. child to a drunk driver. one sets up a charity and campaigns against drink driving for the rest of her life, the other one.

Naomi Stonier: … in her grief, becomes addicted to, , tranquilizers and never recovers. Yeah. Yeah…
 I mean, just a choice. It's a choice.

Naomi Stonier: And so, it's in… it's an interesting one, that one, because people think, oh, so that means I've just got to put up with any behaviour, because it's a choice of how to… so you could be really nasty to me, and I'll just choose not to be offended. Yeah. I see it as actually completely the opposite. that it makes it easiest to say no, it makes easier to put in boundaries.

Naomi Stonier: And that thing, because if it's a choice how you feel, then it's a choice to say the difficult thing. Because I can't say that because you're gonna freak out. Yes, yeah. Yeah, and what you're saying is it's because of you, I can't say anything.

Naomi Stonier: So, if. being… believing. I create my experience in actual… in reality makes you more able to stand up for yourself, speak your mind even when it's difficult. put in a boundary, , it's not… just about… yeah, oh yeah, I'm the Dalai Lama, I'll never be bothered by anything.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah. It's actually… you can challenge a lot more. Healthy self-esteem. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: we confuse confidence with healthy self-esteem. Healthy self-esteem is, sorry, I don't want to be treated this, I'm not going to be… this, thank you, goodbye. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Nicky Bevan: I'm gonna…
 It's… I was so pleased you said that, because I think when… A lot of people here, they've got a choice, and it's their thoughts that are creating their meaning. , they then think that they're just always gonna feel happy, joyous, and positive, and. Yeah. And that is so beyond… The reality, actually, because, , going back to losing a child, that is not appropriate.

Nicky Bevan: Well, any relationship, actually. It's not appropriate to feel happy, joyous, and positive. You'd be an absolute. Fucking psycho, wouldn't you, if you didn't have an emotion about that?

Nicky Bevan: If you lose a parent or a pet, a beloved pet. It's not appropriate to… it… to feel positive and joyous. Yeah, what I always explain is this is not about feeling good. Yeah, so I constantly coach my clients in sessions.

Nicky Bevan: Yes, yeah. , the bar for success is not whether you feel good. Yes, yeah. The bar for success is you may be having a really awful time, and do you the way you're handling it?

Naomi Stonier: Yes, yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah. You're probably having a really horrible time right now, but are you… Are you happy with the way you are handling this? Yes.

Naomi Stonier: , you're not freaking out, screaming at people, beating people up, drinking, smoking, spending. , you feel awful. And you're just in that, and you're coping with it, and you're just choosing to believe that this will pass, you will figure it out, diddly-doo-dah. Yeah… Yeah, yeah.

Naomi Stonier: choice, that's the choice you've made, isn't it? I mean, I always say we've got two options, suffer or learn. Yeah. Yeah.

Naomi Stonier: You can suffer in this, you're going to be in this anyway, or you can choose to think, right, I'm gonna rinse the learnings out of this. I mean, you and I have been in countless moments, haven't we? I mean, I'm always. whenever I hit a tough time thinking, God, I'm going to be able to help my clients with all of this.

Naomi Stonier: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Johnny and I are going through that right now. We were talking about this just before we came on to the podcast, .

Naomi Stonier: If those of you that follow me on social media, you will know that Johnny's. handed in… , he's left his… what is perceived to be a secure, employed job. for the life of self-employment, and it's fucking sick. scary.

Nicky Bevan: Scary. And I just knocked your post on that so much. , it was the whoop-whoop, Johnny's left his job post. And I'm fucking terrified.

Nicky Bevan: And it's just, , and this is what we do, we have the courage. Yeah. Yeah. We go first, don't we?

Nicky Bevan: And it's very self-affirming that you… you're talking openly about how scared you are. Yeah, yeah, and anxiety and self-doubt and everything that most people then. And I was one of these… I'm , well, if I feel self-doubted, something must have gone wrong. If I feel anxious, something must have gone wrong.

Nicky Bevan: Having the skills to know that nothing has gone wrong. I think it's the most… Freeing! Choice ever! Ever.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah. It's , of course you feel this. Yeah. And, , one, this is physical sensations in our bodies.

Nicky Bevan: , yes, your brain is telling you you might die. if Johnny leaves the police. But this is just, , one, your brain is saying this to forecast danger, two, you have the physical sensations of real danger. Yeah.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah. Yeah. Being able to separate them out. from, , what you want.

Naomi Stonier: Are you willing to tolerate these feelings to get where you want to go? I mean, how many times have you and I both heard that? Yeah, and I love the Choose Your Discomfort. Do you want the discomfort of staying the same?

Naomi Stonier: , shouting, being snappy, beating yourself up, drinking too much, eating too much, whatever, spending too much, whatever it is. Do you want that? Because that's going to be uncomfortable. Do you want that discomfort?

Naomi Stonier: Or… Do you want the discomfort of learning… how to make those choices, how to create the meaning, take the lessons. That's gonna be uncomfortable, but that discomfort is gonna get you the results and the life you want. Yeah. the same quality versus safe.

Naomi Stonier: Safe, you stay stuck in. Quality, you enter in one place, it's uncomfortable as hell, but you come out in a different and better place. I mean, in terms of relationships. miserable, comfortable.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah. Yeah. But that applies to any area, but especially in relationships, we stay in stable ambiguity. So, a very common issue that comes onto my coaching is, I don't know if I want to be in this relationship.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah. I don't think this is worth fighting for. So you're very, very unhappy, but you don't leave, and you don't work on it. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah. the stable ambiguity, and we stay in that place. It's also the same when people spend a lot of time in the past, they're stuck at… they had a very difficult past, and they… They're stuck in it. That's actually the safest place to be, because you can't change the past.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah. harder to be in the present, which you can change. So you stay… I had this awful past… , life is very hard for me because I had this past, you're stuck there, you can't move on from it. It's the safest place to be.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah, and then… yeah, exactly, and that part of your brain is , well, we're not dead, so that must be fine. Let's… we know that, it's familiar. Whilst it's really uncomfortable, it's familiar. miserable comments above.

Nicky Bevan: Whereas change, we don't know. But we don't know the outcome there, and that part of our brain is never really going to be on board with that. Yeah. Sue, I'm curious, Naomi, is there… , one thing… that constantly comes up.

Nicky Bevan: with the people that you work with. Well, the key thing that comes up is… a key issue is. managing stress, stress and pressure, daily, life-to-die… life… day-to-day stress and pressure. And separating that out from your relationship.

Naomi Stonier: Because when you're under a lot of pressure, so I work with a lot of entrepreneurs. And they're either… they're in the squeeze middle, it's either young kids or aging parents, plus a business. Plus, they're going a million miles an hour. And it's separating out that from the relationship, because that stress then gets dumped on the relationship, and it becomes about the relationship.

Naomi Stonier: And I'm always asking people, do you want to check? This is really about your relationship, should we try and separate this all out? So there's that, but then there's also… , because I work so much with business owners. the superpower of the business owner, the Get Stuff Done person, they've got a million… super resourceful.

Naomi Stonier: , super resilient. But often learn in childhood, often learn in tricky childhoods. Yeah. where it was seen as a virtue.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah, this is a vert that you can go, go, go. You don't rely on anyone, and that's… barrier to intimacy. So, it's just the level of stress you're under. Yeah.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah…
 The fact that you're rewarded. for this, society rewards us, it's a business hierarchy, or you're… it's… , it's protective. Yeah…
 childhood, that shows up the most, and that's a barrier to intimacy. And then the other one I get that's most common is my logical people.

Naomi Stonier: , it's great in business, super logical, able to put emotion aside and think logically. Yes. Terrible in your relationship. or messy, they don't make sense, and you need to just lean in to all the discomfort and be there.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah. It's so interesting, isn't it? What makes us successful in one area, or perceived success in one area. really limit us in another.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah. Well, and the relationship's the scariest place. So that… that's the most… common issue I see I gave you about 5 answers there. The most common issue I have is how scared people are of their romantic relationship.

Nicky Bevan: And what do you mean by that? I mean that it's the most challenging place, it's the scariest place, so you can be very successful. But your romantic relationship knocked you on your ass, because. It's the most challenging place.

Nicky Bevan: It's the place that most closely resembles the parent-child relationship. Because parent-child relationship is one way you must rely, you have to rely on someone. And that, , can… is very challenging if they did not show up. as, , I don't think most people didn't get.

Nicky Bevan: what they needed, and… that all comes up in your… in your… in your romantic relationship. So you might be a brilliant parent, you might be very successful. Yeah. But it's just not working in your romantic relationship, and you don't know why.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah. Yeah. And that's… just so difficult for people. So the fear, the challenge, it's so scary.

Naomi Stonier: And what… what do you think they're actually scared of? It's… it's, yeah, people. We are always seeking love. Our greatest fear is, , , I'm not enough.

Naomi Stonier: And I won't get love. So we… we need so… we're seeking so much certainty from each other. Yeah. , and there is this fear that you won't be there for me.

Naomi Stonier: We're constantly checking, can I rely on you? Will you be there for me? And a high-quality. romantic relationship requires vulnerability.

Naomi Stonier: And it requires honesty. Yes. And it's dangerous. A real, alive, romantic relationship is dangerous.

Naomi Stonier: You're constantly challenging each other, and you're honestly speaking. I mean. I'm pretty sure, Nikki, you will have been there. , I am not happy with this.

Naomi Stonier: I don't this. I need this to change. And being… calmly and kindly saying that to someone is the scariest thing you can do. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: Because that's the… there's nowhere to hide. This is where the real conversation's gonna happen. So that's why we're either stuck in the deep freeze with. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: and avoiding, always screaming and shouting, because there's safety in screaming and shouting, because nothing gets solved. Yeah. It's just, oh, they're overreacting, oh, it was heat at the moment, . Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: in patriarchy, in a traditional heterosexual relationship, men are very used to battening down the hatches. And just wait for the storm to pass, and then just carrying right on as they normally do. A calm. woman saying, hey, this isn't okay for me, I'm gonna need more hair.

Nicky Bevan: Then we have to deal with it. And that's very scary for both parties. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Nicky Bevan: Because we, , the greatest fear is, it might be over. Yeah. safer not to look, safer to just leave it as it is, safer to say… you say you're accepting, really you're settling. Yeah, yes, yeah.

Nicky Bevan: And I think, as well. The Cinderella Complex. Disney is a lot to blame for this. , this is… It's that, , the woman is stuck in the tower, she needs rescuing, so she's the victim.

Naomi Stonier: And then the night in shining armor comes the man, on the horse comes to rescue her. Well, what if that man is petrified? So what you are talking about there is the patriarchy. Yeah.

Naomi Stonier: And the biggest myth of patriarchy is that men and women…
 Yes. that men are the winners, and women are the losers. That's the biggest myth of patriarchy. The truth is, we are all losers in this system.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah, because it's… just so toxic for men. to be the hero the whole time, and then…
 Well, it… it's the… well, it's the… it's the masculine ideal. We talk about the feminine ideal all the time, about what women have to measure up to, what do men have to measure up to? They have to be strong, silent, unflappable heroes.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah. Yeah…
 And they cannot get there. And not only that, but… , our… the ability to… connect, articulate how you're feeling, , be vulnerable and honest when you struggle. That is trained out of men.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah, yeah. We are asking, , in the last 50 years, women have been rightly asking for more. But they've been asking for more in heterosexual relationships. Gay couples don't quite have this issue, they have other issues.

Naomi Stonier: that we're asking for more from men who've had it trained out of them. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: And this is what… and so, , the abuse of the patriarchy is traumatic and abusive to men, as well as men, and so… we need to move beyond… we've got two options in patriarchy. We can be strong and in control, the man, or we can be weak and helpless, the woman. Yeah. And so, the feminine.

Nicky Bevan: So many women reject that, and they become the man. We think we're being strong and strong women. Really, we've just occupied the male, the masculine. position of patriarchy, so we must move beyond patriarchy.

Nicky Bevan: What we're doing, and we're evolving into. Yeah. Deep thinking. honest, open humans.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah, and we will do that dance a masculine and Feminine. Yeah, with all the emotions. But without these myths. society has given us.

Nicky Bevan: Yeah. Yeah. So fascinating, isn't it? So, I'm just aware of time, so I'm going to just ask you one last question.

Nicky Bevan: It's probably quite an open question. Other than coaching, , because… well, you could use that as your answer as well, but… If you were to say to someone… so if someone's listening to this, they're , oh my gosh, I now realize that I want to change, I want to learn, I want to invest in myself. What would you say is the first place, or the first thing for them to look at? We both know that's coaching, getting that support.

Naomi Stonier: What would you say? You have to, though, then number one question to start with is, why… what am I finding difficult? Why am I finding it difficult? Why am I fi… if you're struggling with something, you have to just sit with, why am I finding this so difficult?

Naomi Stonier: And every time your mind goes to, it's my boss, it's how much I earn, it's where I live, it's because my partner isn't, … Giving me enough attention, you have to come back to yourself. And then you have to ask, what do I want? What do I want? You have to ask, what is it that I want?

Naomi Stonier: , for me, it was… in my relationship, I want more love. I want… I want a more loving relationship, and I had to ask her, what is it that I want? What is it that I want? And it was, I want… I need more hugs.

Naomi Stonier: , I had to sit with that for a long time, but then, you'll have heard me tell this story. Yeah…
 the hugs had to be unasked for. It had to be spontaneous effective, because I could go to my husband and get a hug, but I'd had to ask for it. It felt wooden, it felt fake.

Naomi Stonier: And I was , ugh, this feels horrible, this is fake. It doesn't mean anything, because I've had to ask you for it. Yeah, so interesting, isn't it? I mean, can you imagine the dynamic?

Naomi Stonier: And it was that moment when it's , what do I want? What do I want? What do I want? And what does that actually literally look ?

Nicky Bevan: Okay, it's more hugs, , and I could change the rule from. It doesn't have to be unasked for, it doesn't have to be spontaneous, I can just go and get my hug and get my love. , it's little things that that's gonna make it so much more simple. Yeah, so good, so good.

Nicky Bevan: And you said right at the beginning that you started off with therapy, and then you found coaching. What do you think is the power of having a coach? Yeah…
 It speeds it up. speeds it up.

Nicky Bevan: The most expensive way to learn is life experience, because it takes so long. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: This is not a dress rehearsal. , speed it up. and get these results quicker. And then you're gonna have them for the rest of your life.

Nicky Bevan: They're gonna compound. This is saving. Start when you're 16. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: That's, , that £100, we all know the story, that that thousand pounds compounds. Yeah. And you could save a million pounds. , I'm getting it wrong.

Naomi Stonier: You could save 100 grand when you're 50, and that 100 you saved when you were 16 is still worth more. grounding. But for now, I just say to people. Yeah, yeah.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah, yeah, it's so true. what it's all about the questions you're asking yourself. You ask yourself the wrong question, you're going to stay stuck. If you're sitting there going, why does this always happen to me?

Naomi Stonier: Why is my partner so horrible to me? You're gonna get really terrible answers to that. change your questions, and what am I finding difficult, and what is it I need, what do I want? To get out of that.

Naomi Stonier: That's gonna… get you going. Yeah. Yeah. One of my most favourite questions to ask is, what would love do here?

Naomi Stonier: I'd love… Love sometimes sounds no. Ah, goodness. Yes! But this isn't just loving the other person, this is loving yourself.

Naomi Stonier: Love sometimes sounds , do what? that isn't acceptable. this is what you… this is… this is how we're gonna, . Yeah.

Nicky Bevan: And another good one for me is, do I … how am I… do I how I'm showing up here? whatever. So that's always one of my favorite…
 Yeah. who I ?

Nicky Bevan: Do I how I am thinking and feeling right now? And if I'm spewing a lot of negative. negativity, if my body filled the negativity, if my brain's going… And they never did this. They shouldn't have done that to me.

Nicky Bevan: I know, I know I'm not in the right place. Emotional pause. Yeah. Yeah, yes, yeah, so powerful.

Nicky Bevan: Thank you so much for coming and chatting with me, Naomi. It was so lovely to catch up, for one, and then to hear. all about your coaching for a second. We will put all the links in the show notes.

Nicky Bevan: But how… where is the best place to connect with you if someone's listening? But they can come to my website, Naomistonia.com, book a call, book a free chat, and have a chat with me. I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on YouTube, I'm on Facebook, I'm doing free webinars all the time. , I'm passionate about sharing this information.

Nicky Bevan: You can get helped. for free with me. If you're good at implementing, I… you can get helped for free. I'm giving out a lot of content all the time, and I've… I just work with those 10% of people who need some help.

Naomi Stonier: Yeah. Yeah, amazing. So good. Thank you.

Naomi Stonier: Is there anything that we haven't spoke about that you think is relevant? I… I think we've covered it. Thank you so much for having me. You're welcome!

Naomi Stonier: It was amazing! And for everybody else, I will speak to you next week! Bye!