Ep #103 - Do It Messy: Yoga for Women Who Have No Time

If you’ve ever thought “I’d love to do yoga… but I don’t have time (or a tidy house, or the right leggings, or the headspace)” — this episode is for you.

This week I’m joined by yoga teacher and mum-of-two, Jolanthe de Koning, and we’re calling bullshit on the idea that you need an hour, silence, candles, and a perfectly curated “yoga corner” to feel better. You don’t.

We talk about:

• Why little and often (5–10 minutes) beats the occasional “perfect” session 
• The real point of yoga (spoiler: it’s not flexibility) and the myths that keep women stuck 
• How yoga supports nervous system regulation — and why that matters when you’re stressed, snappy, overwhelmed or anxious 
• The “it’s selfish” story so many mums carry… and what’s actually more selfish (hint: staying in burnout mode) 
• Jolanthe’s honest story of how yoga “saved her” through different seasons of life — including the fog of postnatal depression and that moment where it felt like “the clouds parted” 
• Practical ways to start when your brain resists and your life is chaotic (because of course it will) 

This is your permission slip to push the toys aside, roll out the mat, and do it messy — because waiting for life to calm down is a guaranteed way to never start. 

Connect with Jolanthe:
Jolanthe’s work is all about yoga amid the mess — with a library of short, realistic classes you can fit into real life. 

 Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jolanthe_de_koning/?hl=en

You can also watch this episode on YouTube with Captions - https://www.youtube.com/@TheWorkingWomensLifeCoach

If you'd like to have a chat about how I can help you further, please don't hesitate to click here & book a time with me, I'd love to meet you.

You can also follow me on IG @NickyBevan_LifeCoach

Transcript

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Welcome, welcome, welcome everybody to this week's podcast. And this week, I am joined by the beautiful Lilanthi, who I will…

As always, let her introduce herself in just a second, but we are going to be talking all things yoga today.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And we are…right in the middle of life, aren't we? Philanthy at the moment?

Jolanthe de Koning

Oh, yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

So, Eilanthropy has a young toddler… well, not toddling, yeah, six… how old's Daisy?

Jolanthe de Koning

She's like a baby toddler.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

A baby toddler.

Jolanthe de Koning

She is, uh, she's 15 months, but she's walking very well, so she's… but she's tiny.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Oh, okay, she is.Awww.

Jolanthe de Koning

So she's like, she looks like a baby, but she is a toddler.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Aww, that's so cute.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

But with all the joys of nursery, the bugs, so, you know, if we were just saying that

Jolanthe de Koning

Mmm…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

You have a bit of a sore throat, thank you for being here, even with the sore throat. If you need to cough, cough, this is not the place to be perfect, this is the place to be human.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And we're also… we're up for all of that. but before we get into our topic of conversation, do you want to just…introduce yourselves. Introduce… tell us a little bit about who you are, and why you're here today.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes?

Yes, thank you, Nikki. So, I'm Yolanta, Yalanta de Koning. It's a Dutch name. I'm, um, I'm Dutch originally, but I've lived in England for a very long time.

Some kind of English-ish now.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, my main focus, uh, in work is yoga. So I'm a yoga teacher, I've been doing it for ages and ages.

And I love it. It has… saved me several times in my life, I would say.

It's kind of come… it's like a friend that's always…been my… been my companion through different points of my life.

So that's what I'm doing. Of course, like you mentioned, I'm a mum, I've got a 4-year-old and a 15-month-old.

So I'm right in the middle of the jungle.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes, in that messy, does this ever end?

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes!

Jolanthe de Koning

I'm in the… in the kind of…phase. Yeah, constantly quite tired and ill.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

But, uh, that's beside the point. So that's me. Um, I have a sports science degree. My background is all sports science-y. I love… research and science-y stuff. But I realized that when I was in academia, I worked there for a bit as well,

I realized it wasn't for me. Uh, several reasons. I didn't like the egos in academia.

And also, I want to have direct contact with people and direct effects on people. So, when I teach a fitness class or a yoga class, I can see that effect I'm having.

So I can see they're sweaty. Sweaty, happy, contented faces, and I'm like,

Ah, I've made the world a little bit better, one person at a time.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, and I didn't get that from academia. So that's why this is the path I've chosen.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Nice! So, are you willing to share with us, you said that yoga saved you a couple of times. Are you willing to share what those couple of times looked like?

Jolanthe de Koning

Mmm…

Yeah, sure, I think it's, like, at least 3 times. Um…

So, first, I found Yoga First when I was a teenager. about 151/6, and of course, anyone listening to this, if you've got teenage children, You'll probably recognize that. The stresses are high.

Um, so when I was just drowning in social anxieties and academic stress,

Yoga was amazing for me. And I often did yoga in, like, a group of adults, so actually…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Okay.

Jolanthe de Koning

You don't have to hang out with all your annoying teenage friends. I was in an adult environment.

And then I forgot it for a bit, and when I was doing my PhD, I was…

Again, drowning in stress, I was… very close to a burnout. And I don't know if you know the feeling, but you know when you just become one big head? You're disconnected from your body.

And I was just in my head with the reading and the research and all that stuff.

And I found yoga through a yoga app. Started doing it daily again.

And it really helped connect me to my sense of self, my body, um, calm my nervous system, as we'll talk about later.

So at that point, when I was really gonna have a breakdown at the end of my PhD,

That saved me. Um…

And then moving on, so after that, very, very soon after her PhD, I did my yoga teacher training, and I started teaching

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Mm-hmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

And I started practicing regularly, every day, and I was in this wonderful…

Yoga zone! Oh, blessed out. Um, and then I had my… we had our first baby.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Mm-hmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

And as my… as the usual people say, Life, oh, we're just going to do everything like we've done before when we have a baby. Nothing's gonna change!

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, change!

Jolanthe de Koning

And, uh, it was a hard shock, um…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And so, for the first 7 months, I felt… I couldn't… I couldn't get back to my yoga practice because our baby was one of those contact nappers.

So there wasn't a minute in the day that I was away from our baby.

Um, and so for the first 7 months,

That carried on, and I had no yoga practice, and I really delved deep down into postnatal depression.

It was really… not. Nice. They're the thoughts I was having, the way I was acting.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, and the turning point then was when we taught our baby how to nap in his cot. required a bit of sleep training.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And I got my yoga practice back, and it was like the clouds parted. you know, I just got my… I reconnected with my sense of self again, which I'd completely forgotten.

And just, yeah, all that, again, the nervous system regulation, and… all of that calmness, because I had become really anxious and really almost bitchy and catty and reactive, and…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

So yeah, the postnatal depression was definitely one. That, again, was solved by yoga, and just having some time for myself.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah…

And I think that is the key, isn't it? I speak to so many women, especially mums, but this happens for most of the women I speak to, they're like, oh,

I can't put myself first, I'll be selfish.

And I was actually only talking to someone about coaching someone on this yesterday, and I was like, okay, we were talking about walking. She just wanted to walk, on her own, without her kids.

Jolanthe de Koning

Mmm…

Yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

She said, but that's really selfish. I'm like, okay, so if you don't do that,

How do you feel? She's like, well, I'm frustrated, and I was like, how does that show up as a mum? She said, well, I'm…Snapping at my kids, I'm irritable, I'm telling them to leave me alone for a minute.

And… and I was like, so…

How is it… if you take that like, half an hour, or even just 10 minutes out,

Isn't it more selfish to actually keep away the beautiful, calm, like, mum, or partner, or friend.

I think that's more selfish. I think it's more selfish not giving our best self to people.

Jolanthe de Koning

Absolutely. Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

It's not selfish, because it's not done with a self-interest in mind, but it's… it's…silly, I would say. It's a mistake that you don't realize you're making.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

Isn't it? It's, like, not… not the best path.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Definitely. I think if you, um, get that self… self-regulation time.

And you can show up in a calm, regulated way, you know, that's the best example you can give your children. And I often… so when I go for runs as well, now and then, I do a jog, a very easy jog.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Mm, yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And I will say to our eldest, I'll say, Mommy's gonna go for a jog.

It makes Mummy really happy to go for a jog. I'll come back so happy!

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, I'm always talking to him about that, and then…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Often, he'll be like, yeah, Mummy, just go for your jog! Go! It'll make you happy! Go! Go, go, jog!

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah. Yeah.

Because I think that is the big… our happiness is the biggest gift I think we can give our children.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

They just want a carer that's… content. And…

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah, and I think, especially because I'm in the phase with a 4-year-old, and, you know, emotional regulation is the word of the house at the moment.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

you know, we're… it's so helpful if we are regulated.

And then, because, you know, our 4-year-old, or any teenagers as well, for other people,

Those bare motions are mad, and they don't know how to regulate them, so you need to be able

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

to be regulated, to be able to be the buffer.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

to handle all the craziness from the… the developing children, and to show the example.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, exactly. Exactly that, because…

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

The child hasn't got the cognitive ability to rationalize. As adults, we do,

Jolanthe de Koning

No. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And yet, we try and get our child to change, be it teenager or toddler.

Jolanthe de Koning

Mmm.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

It seems easier for them to change, because then we don't have to do the work on ourselves. But actually, it's impossible. And then you just end… you then become the toddler or the teenager,

Jolanthe de Koning

work. Yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

As an adult, we can learn how to regulate, because we've got the cognitive ability.

Jolanthe de Koning

Mmm…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And yet, very few… Few of us learn that lesson, like, it's a skill, it's a… whether you…

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah, it is.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Whether you learn it through coaching, whether you learn it through yoga, whether you learn it through running, like, it doesn't… it doesn't really matter what your go-to is.

Giving yourself permission to regulate yourself,

I think is… I don't think it's just helpful, I think it's essential. Like, I think it's…

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes, absolutely.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

If you want a calm house, it's… it's essential.

Jolanthe de Koning

if you want to have a good relationship with your romantic partner, with your children, if you want to be the best example,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah, you need to have that reflective time. whatever that is, if it's a coaching session, if it's a yoga session, if it's a long walk in nature,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, yeah, you need to… I guess it's self-awareness, I guess, we're talking about.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Mmm, yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

You know, whatever practice gives you self-awareness, when you can notice,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

I'm starting to feel really angry right now.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

What am I going to do, take a deep breath, or am I gonna shout?

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, yeah, it's that… it's interrupting yourself, isn't it, and making that choice, that conscious choice.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah. Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And what you said, I really love that whole disconnect from the mind and body, because a lot of what I do with my clients is thought work.

Jolanthe de Koning

Mmm.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And then it's okay if… when… if it's not appropriate to change the emotion, let's learn how to sit

With the emotion. And so, it is about

it is surprising, isn't it, how many people are disconnected from from their body, and from their mind.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And the impact that that has on us. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that?

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes, yes, absolutely, and well, first of all, I want to say,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

connection.

Jolanthe de Koning

The actual word yoga means union,

It's union of body and mind. That's the kind of purpose of it, yes! It's… the purpose isn't to get really flexible,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Oh, I did know that!

Jolanthe de Koning

To put your leg behind your head, and make a cool Instagram shot.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Oh, okay. Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

It's, um, union of body, mind, spirit kind of thing, in union with the universe, if you could go a bit further than that.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, so yeah, and I think daily life is now

It's structured in a way that's quite unnatural for us, isn't it? You know, we're…

thinking with our, kind of, intellectual brain. almost a whole day, and we're not really designed to do that.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, so it's no wonder people are just up in their heads. They're just churning, churning, churning in their brains.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And unless you build in your opportunities to be active,

You just don't. So there'll be people who sit in the car,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

thinking about traffic, because it's really cognitively engaging.

thinking about work, go back to their car, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, and they never actually… feeling their body move.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

So, I mean, it's no surprise that people are in their heads and not in their bodies.

Um, but yeah, I mean…

How to explain. It's…

I think when you become disconnected from the feeling in your body,

It's that awareness, so…

Um, in lots of yoga books I've read, I've heard… I've read about people who literally

They lose the feeling of… Like, for example, their thighs, or their hips. Like, things become quite dull.

And then once you do a mind-body practice, you become aware of

The extremities and the muscles in different places that you've never really… put any awareness to.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Hmm…

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, and…

It just… yeah.

It's really important in a proprioception way, so you…

Being aware of everything going on in the body, you…

A become a bit… um, you become okay with feeling discomfort.

So you become very aware of which feelings are… good discomfort? So it's like, oh, it's just my muscle being a bit tight, it's just that being a bit achy, and that's fine. And you practice that feeling of…

Staying calm in the physical discomfort, but not running away from that feeling.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, and then if you really work… the more you do this, the more, aware of your body you become, and you do then notice when it's not good.

So when there is a sensation in your body,

That is, like, a warning sign of something that's not good.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

You'll be more heightened to it.

And you'll maybe catch something really early.

So you'd be like, okay, that's not my usual sensation of discomfort, that's something else.

So this whole process just…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Hmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

makes you more aware of your whole being, not just what's going on in your brain and your thoughts.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah. And it's kind of important, isn't it? Because our body is significantly bigger to us than our heads. Like, if you think… like, our head is this bit, and then there's this whole thing down below that's…

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And really incredibly functioning

Without that attachment, and without that consciousness, you know, you think about the blood that's pumping around, the oxygen that's going around, and the way that it's holding you and moving you, all without you thinking. All without you thinking.

Jolanthe de Koning

It's amazing. Yeah, and we should be so grateful. I think…

Doing, like, a mind-body practice will make you feel…

Gratitude for all of that that's being done for you, and I guess another benefit of that

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

is to really start to appreciate and love your body, whatever shape or size or capability it is.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Hmm…

Jolanthe de Koning

You become connected, and you just appreciate those parts of you more.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes. And then what… what fascinates me is how, when we do tap into that cognitive awareness,

How much more effective could our body?

Jolanthe de Koning

Oh, yeah! Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

function? Like, what could it… if it is… if it's going to heal a cut without us needing to think about it, well, if we thought about stuff. What else could we heal that we're not aware? Like, Jess, I find it really fascinating.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Really fascinating.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah, and I guess when we talk about… talk about healing, so, you know, there's so much science now showing the effect on the sympathetic nervous system,

So it, like, lowers your fight or flight, nervous state, which is the reason why it helps with the depression and the anxiety, and all those things, how it helped me in the past.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, the deep breathing. the mindfulness, which is the being aware of every sensation without any judgement,

Um, it just taps you into that safe…

Nervous state where your body is like, I'm in a safe place, I'm gonna send blood to the organs, I'm gonna send blood to all the places that need nourishment.

Rather than if you're in the stressed zone, as you probably talk about all the time,

The blood just goes through the, run away! And it doesn't go to digestion, it doesn't go to the immune system.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

So yeah, if you're in that calm state, which a mind-body practice always promotes, things like the immune system function better.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Things like your lymph nodes are flowing because you're moving around, and so I think

Healing-wise, um, it's only going to be positive for getting over colds and… of avoiding… colds, and… yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Healing the body, wherever it needs to be healed.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, so good. So we've talked about some of the benefits of yoga, and having that mind-body connection. Now tell me some of the myths that you hear quite often.

Jolanthe de Koning

Oh, yes. Yes. Well, we said a few benefits. There are also more, if you want to get into more, I could even say more. We've done the very, like,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Nervous system stuff. Um, but myths, oh my god.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

That's true.

Jolanthe de Koning

I spend most of my life dispelling myths.

Jolanthe de Koning

Because, you know, everyone hears yoga, and they're like, oh, it's not for me, I'm not flexible. Or, um, they think… they think of an image of someone meditating for hours, and they think, oh, I can't possibly meditate.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Ah, my brain's too busy, I'm not flexible enough, I'm not strong enough, my body's too big, or whatever.

Um, all of those are myths.

All of them. The actual purpose is connection with your breath,

And it's the… it's the mind-body connection which helps you to calm, um… your mind. And by calming your mind, we don't actually mean

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Mm-hmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

stopping the thoughts. Everyone thinks, oh, but I can't possibly stop my thoughts.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Your thoughts never stop, and that's not meant to happen. So that's… that's a myth.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah. Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, it's just becoming aware of the thoughts, isn't it?

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Mmm. Mmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

And learning how to release judgment, or release…

Um, identification with all your thoughts.

So that's a myth, um, obviously the flexibility, you don't have to do the splits, you don't have to do a handstand or a crazy back

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

spend. Um, fun fact,

yoga, so hatha yoga,

A lot of styles of yoga are based on Hatha yoga, and so…

This was actually developed for young Indian boys, or the physi…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Oh, okay.

Jolanthe de Koning

all the physical postures. Um, so yoga goes way back, and actually, at its roots, it wasn't a physical practice at all. It was more the mind-body meditation piece.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Okay.

Jolanthe de Koning

Later on, the physical poses came, which are also

really beneficial, and they kind of… they're like a gateway into meditation, because it's easier to do movement.

than it is to sit down and meditate. So the poses are like…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

the stepping stone to…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Hmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

coming to joining mind and body, and then after you've done the poses,

Meditation is easier.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Oh, interesting.

Jolanthe de Koning

But the initial poses were actually developed in India, um, by a man called Krishnamacharya.

And it was… he was teaching, I think it was, like, in a palace, and it was…

Young Indian boys, which are really flexible, you know, they can do just about anything. So, a lot of poses

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Nowadays aren't directly appropriate for our bodies. So you don't have to think, I have to be able to do lotus pose,

Or this crazy backbend.

They weren't… those poses weren't developed for our bodies as they are now.

Um, in your age, with your ethnicity, with your life. work pattern.

So that's a nice myth. to what nice fact to know.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

that if you see crazy poses,

take it with a pinch of salt.

It's still yoga if it's not that pose.

Um, and another one… sorry, I'm full of these.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, go, go for it.

Jolanthe de Koning

If you go to a yoga class, or if you do yoga at home,

I so often get people saying,

How do I know if I'm doing it right?

No one's looking at me, no one's correcting my pose.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And I'm like, it doesn't have to look like a picture.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah…

Jolanthe de Koning

Everyone's Safety Triangle Pose, with your legs kind of wide, you're kind of leaning over to the side with a straight back.

trying to touch your leg, maybe your shin, or your foot, or the ground.

Everyone's triangle pose looks different.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And no one's is correct.

You know, everyone has a different version for their body.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Even their dimensions, and on every single day, your pose might look different because of the state that your body is in that particular day.

Jolanthe de Koning

So, if you are mindfully breathing and moving,

Jolanthe de Koning

That is yoga. No matter what the pose looks like,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And people are like, oh, but how do I know if I'm doing that right? And I need to do it in the right… No, there is no right.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

There's just breath, and movement, and mindfulness.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, so that's a big one.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Another one that I hear, and I'm sure you've come across this, and I had this myself,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Oh, well, I have to do it for hours. Like, it has to be at least an hour's practice for it to be beneficial.

Jolanthe de Koning

Oh, yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And then, so you then you don't do it at all, whereas…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

I found with my yoga practice, thanks to your app, actually,

Jolanthe de Koning

Yay!

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Um, was just 10 minutes, like, just start with 10 minutes. And so now I am in a very

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

regular habit. I can't say it's everyday, but it's definitely…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

5 days out of 7, like, non-negotiable. If I could do every day, I do every day, but sometimes it just doesn't, but

Jolanthe de Koning

That's lovely!

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

definitely at least 5 times. I start my morning…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

With, I drink my… my lemon water,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And then I just let my back warm up a little bit, so I don't go straight into stretching, I give myself, like, 20 minutes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And then I do about 10 minutes of a yoga practice. And that has…

Jolanthe de Koning

That's perfect.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Because I've got into… I started small, I literally, I was like, right, I'm just gonna do 5 minutes, and now I'm at 10 minutes, and…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

If I didn't have to do the school run, I would maybe be looking at increasing it to 15 or 20 minutes, but

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Actually, I really notice a difference when I don't do that practice now.

Jolanthe de Koning

Mmm, yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

you know, my hips are more achy, my shoulders are more teense, and I'm like, it's only 10 minutes!

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

But that connection and that movement, and I've, you know, adjusted it to do things that I enjoy,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

It's really made a huge difference, so I think the other myth is this doesn't have to be, like,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Hours of…

Jolanthe de Koning

Absolutely, you're… that's the nail on the head. Bang, definitely. It's… it's the main thing keeping people back is, I don't have an hour.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah. Mmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

Or you go onto YouTube and you find, like, an hour's class, or…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

So, yes, the way you're doing it is perfect. Little and often.

Jolanthe de Koning

is much more beneficial than doing one hour class once a week.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, and by all means, if you can fit it in, do that hour as well. You know, that's lovely if you can go to a studio and you've got the social element.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Of course.

Jolanthe de Koning

But if you could do 10 minutes every morning,

Jolanthe de Koning

Even 5 minutes. I think you… it's the… it's the body's transition into that

Jolanthe de Koning

calm state. And so you're training your body to more quickly get into that state,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

So if you do it frequently,

Jolanthe de Koning

Your body can quickly switch into that mindful breathing movement zone.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

So yeah, you're just… it's frequent training. I mean, it would be the same

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

For weights, for example.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

If you did 5 minutes of weights every morning,

Jolanthe de Koning

It would be better than doing an hour of weight once a week.

Jolanthe de Koning

Because it's just… it's that constant training.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Whereas we're training the mind as well with yoga, but that would be just training the muscles.

Jolanthe de Koning

Constantly. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's so beneficial.

Jolanthe de Koning

much better.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

So, if someone's listening, and they're a working woman, and maybe they've got kids, and maybe their life is full,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Um, what would you… I mean, I think you've just answered it, actually, but where would you suggest they started?

Jolanthe de Koning

Mmm, yes. So…

Jolanthe de Koning

Picking a few… so I've deconstructed what I think is, like, the perfect session.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Mm-hmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

making it very small. So I always think, take 5 or 10 minutes, and you do…

Jolanthe de Koning

It can… like you, it could be in the morning, but it could also be if you work from home and the kids are at school,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Mm-hmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

Do like a lunchtime thing.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

or if your biological clock is such that you are a night owl, and you feel like you've got energy in the evening,

Jolanthe de Koning

I haven't. I'm like, whoa.

Jolanthe de Koning

I'm dead. I'm dead. But if you have energy then, after the kids have gone to bed, but you know, that's up to you.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, me too. Half 9, I'm, like, done. Yeah, yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

10 minutes to start with, and you start with a little warm-up.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, if you're a beginner, it could just be a little cat-cow, hands on the ground, knees on the ground, arching your back and rounding with the breath.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Mm-hmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

That could be a warm-up, or if you're… if you know the moves a bit better, you can warm up with a few sun salutations.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, you'll have to… if you don't know what that is, you'll have to look it up on YouTube, or on my app.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yep.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, just a few minutes of sun salutations or that.

Jolanthe de Koning

Then, do some strength?

Jolanthe de Koning

I think everyone… this is another myth I'll talk about in a bit. Straight is very important, so do a few, like yoga squats, or even with a weight, combining strength and yoga.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And then do a posture-opening pose, so I really like one called King Dancer.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, you might have to look it up, but it's your standing up, one hand is in front, one hand is reaching behind you, grabbing a foot, and you kind of do, like, an archy back.

Jolanthe de Koning

standing pose. It's really good for opening up your posture.

Jolanthe de Koning

And after that, you lie on the ground, and do some visualizations, and that keeps it really short. So you lie on the ground, you kind of hands on your belly, let your belly expand.

Jolanthe de Koning

and visualize, um…

Jolanthe de Koning

This lovely golden light on the inside. It really brings you back to your inner, true self.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

So, I mean, that's a really short…

Jolanthe de Koning

practice. It'll take 5 or 10 minutes.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, you can build it out from there.

Jolanthe de Koning

But those are the elements, I'd say, a warm-up,

Jolanthe de Koning

Strength, a posture opening, and then some visualization.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

To start with.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Oh, it's so, so nice.

Jolanthe de Koning

Don't do any more. Yeah, and then, and then as you get into that, you're like, oh, this is curious, oh, I'm seeing some benefits, oh, maybe I want to do a little bit more.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Another myth I… didn't say.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

It's… flexibility is overrated.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Oh, tell me more!

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes. People all want to be complex, um, and you know what? Yes, mobility for daily life is great. If you can, you know, reach up high to get stuff, and you can squat down on the ground easily,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

sit cross-legged on the ground.

Jolanthe de Koning

But any flexibility beyond that is really overrated, like…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Interesting.

Jolanthe de Koning

You know, being able to hold your leg up like a ballerina, or do the splits, those things were actually only

Jolanthe de Koning

Probably not be beneficial.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Hmm…

Jolanthe de Koning

for your daily life. If you're a runner, you don't want super flexible hamstrings, for example, or calves.

Jolanthe de Koning

You want them to be mobile enough to do all the stuff that you do well.

Jolanthe de Koning

So, rather than focusing on that flexibility, strength is so much more important.

Jolanthe de Koning

And you can get strength from yoga.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

People often don't link that.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

So, yoga can, even if you're just using your body weight,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Hmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

really strengthen your whole… your back, your core, your legs, your shoulders.

Jolanthe de Koning

So I think when you're doing yoga,

Jolanthe de Koning

Focusing on strength rather than flexibility.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

And the flexibility will just be a… the mobility is just a nice…

Jolanthe de Koning

secondary outcome. It'll happen anyway.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Hmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

But you don't have to be, like, really aiming for the splits, or aiming for…

Jolanthe de Koning

crazy flexibility.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah. So I'm purely asking for a friend here, but if someone's really into yoga, and they're kind of like, yeah, I've got the habit, like me, 10 minutes in the morning,

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Um, what… when it comes to strength,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

What are the… have you got, like, 3 go-to poses?

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

that you think are the most impactful from a strength perspective.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. So, I already mentioned in my, like, quick

Jolanthe de Koning

10-minute sequence, the squats.

Jolanthe de Koning

So, you know, legs nice and wide, toes pointing, like, 45 degrees out. You can do it just with your body weight.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yep.

Jolanthe de Koning

But if you've done that a lot, and you feel like this is easy for me,

Jolanthe de Koning

Grab a kettlebell, grab some weights, and do the just deep, deep, like, sumo squats. You know, like, really get, like, you'll be your bum right down.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yep.

Jolanthe de Koning

Almost, if you can, you get your bum lower than your knees.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And then you squeeze back up, either with your body weight or a… or a…

Jolanthe de Koning

A kettlebell or other dumbbells. Super good for

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

your bum muscles, your hamstrings, your thighs, all of it.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, then we've got your very basic plank.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

plank and side planks. And when you do plank,

Jolanthe de Koning

One thing that's important is try not to make a straight plank.

Jolanthe de Koning

Try to round your back a little bit.

Jolanthe de Koning

So you're really, like, almost hollowing out your chest, you're rounding your back, so you're really squeezing all the muscles at the front of the body. And when you do side plank,

Jolanthe de Koning

You want to actually make a side banana!

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Okay.

Jolanthe de Koning

So not a straight, you want to kind of lift your rib cage up.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

So there's a really good little bass…

Jolanthe de Koning

Oop, my microphone has come out.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Oop!

Jolanthe de Koning

Headphones.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Oh, we can still hear you.

Jolanthe de Koning

There we go, I couldn't… I couldn't hear you. There we go, we're good.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Okay.

Jolanthe de Koning

So those are your bread and butter. Another great one for the back.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

We're back.

Jolanthe de Koning

I would say is a post called Locust Pose.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Mm-hmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

You lie on your belly, you slide your hands down the mat,

Jolanthe de Koning

Forehead down, legs together, and you just gently lift your chest up and your legs up at the same time. It's a really…

Jolanthe de Koning

unimpressive pose, it's not gonna win any Instagram competitions.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And it doesn't even matter how high you get.

Jolanthe de Koning

So I don't… when I teach it, I say don't focus on getting high with your chest and your legs.

Jolanthe de Koning

focusing on lengthening your whole spine from the top of your head to your toes.

Jolanthe de Koning

And it's amazing for strengthening the lower back, and all the muscles along the back.

Jolanthe de Koning

So what you've worked on with those poses…

Jolanthe de Koning

is the back, with the locust pose.

Jolanthe de Koning

The core and the shoulders with your planks and side planks, and your legs and your bum.

Jolanthe de Koning

With a deep squat.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

I've made notes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

I've got sumo squats, planks, side plank, Lotus.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes, great.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes, and you're good to go. You're good to go.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Head and feet. I'm gonna add those into my routine. Because it's interesting with strength, isn't it? I hear

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

You know, every expert tells you you have to drink water. Doesn't matter what they're… whether they're a nutritional therapist, or a physiotherapist, or they go keto, or they go vegan.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Everybody says drink water, and I feel it's the same with strength, whether it's Pilates,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yoga? Is the physio telling you, the chiropractor telling you, the doctor? Everybody is repeatedly saying strength, strength, strength. And so, especially… so, I'm in my gorgeous paramenopause,

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

Mmm…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

pausal phase, so I'm 49 this year,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And… and I just consistently hear strength.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Strength. Strength.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes, especially for your face, especially.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

So important. Yeah, yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, so it's trying to find a way of

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

getting that into your life without

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

I… it being such a huge hurdle to overcome, because the part of your brain is never going to want to do it.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

So even now, I know the benefits of yoga, I always feel brilliant once I've finished,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Never does my brain actually want to do it. There's always a teenage huff attached to it.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yep. Yep.

Jolanthe de Koning

Well, same here, and I'm a yoga teacher, and same here.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

It's crazy, and this is the thing, everybody thinks their brain is… it's only their brain that does it. I'm like, no, no, no, this is…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

This is the human… part of the human brain. It never wants to expel that energy.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah. Yep.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Which is why, consciously, we have to remind it, no, this is

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

the greater good. This is for the long-term benefits.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes. Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

And you have to not believe your own thoughts.

Jolanthe de Koning

I think you've got to go against… and one lovely thing about yoga philosophy is there's this notion of the koshas, which is

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Exactly, yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

layers of the being, that is you,

Jolanthe de Koning

So you get the, um, outermost layer is the…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Oh…

Jolanthe de Koning

Ugh, I forget the order. The physical body?

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Okay.

Jolanthe de Koning

Or maybe you get the energy body first, and then there's the physical body, and then the thoughts, and then there's the emotions, and on the inside, there is your…

Jolanthe de Koning

bliss body, or Purusha in Sanskrit, and it's, like, the inner essence

Jolanthe de Koning

of you. And that inner essence is not your thoughts, or your emotions, or your physical body.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, and so that inner essence, needs to guide your actions. And you can say to that thought layer, like,

Jolanthe de Koning

No, no, no. I know these thoughts exist, but…

Jolanthe de Koning

You know, um…

Jolanthe de Koning

that's why I say when you do the visualization, you lie down and you visualize this beautiful golden light.

Jolanthe de Koning

In your chest, or your head, or your belly.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Connecting with that, and disassociating from…

Jolanthe de Koning

The thoughts and the emotions.

Jolanthe de Koning

usually aren't correct, are they?

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, no, no. I've just recorded, just this morning, I recorded my hundredth

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

episode. So, it's coming out next…

Jolanthe de Koning

Ah, congratulations!

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Next week, so that, well, depending on… it won't be next week, that's coming out on the…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

When's that coming out? I can't remember the dates. So this one will be coming out a couple of weeks after that, so with… so I think that one's coming out February the 11th.

Jolanthe de Koning

Mmm, yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Something like that. So this one will be episode 102.

Jolanthe de Koning

102. Exciting!

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

So, um, but I… but what I was saying in my… I was trying to come up with, for the 100th episode, I wanted something really grand and really celebratory, but I was like, actually,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

The biggest message that I think people need to hear is we have a choice.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And that choice can be not to listen,

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

to that negative part of our brain. And so, as you're thinking about doing your yoga,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

exercise, and you just want to start in court. Even if it's just 5 minutes. Even if it even if your just looks like, right, I'm just gonna sit here and breathe.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

for one minute, I'm gonna put the timer on,

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah. Breathe, do some neck rolls or something, like, side to side, just…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, just…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes, exactly that. One minute.

Jolanthe de Koning

Mobilize, yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Um, start there,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Celebrate that massively when you have done it, but your brain's still not going to want to do that one minute.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

But that's the choice. It's okay, do I follow that part of me that's never going to want to do it?

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Or do I choose to follow their, like you were saying, that deep essence, that knowing that actually this is going to be really beneficial?

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

That's the choice that you get to make in that moment.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And the more you do it, the more you become connected to that deeper inner you,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes. Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

And the easier that becomes, I think the more connected you are,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, to that self.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah, and I think maybe, Anil, practical tip is to anticipate.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes. Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

the, uh, the resistance. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do it in the morning,

Jolanthe de Koning

I know my brain's gonna be like, nah, I wanna stay in bed, or I'm gonna do it at lunchtime, and my brain's gonna be like, no, I just wanna sit and have my lunch.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And anticipating that, and then when it comes, you're like, aha!

Jolanthe de Koning

I see you. You're there!

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Ah. Yeah, I was expecting you, yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Of course, you're here! Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah. I mean, it's so tough. I have this at the moment in the week.

Jolanthe de Koning

I can get to do my yoga practice only when Baby Daisy naps.

Jolanthe de Koning

And oh my god, I'm tired then. I'm like, ugh, I just want to nap.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

I just… I dragged myself to my mat, and I, like, shovel the toys out to the side, and I'm like, uh…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

But, like, yeah, I tell my brain,

Jolanthe de Koning

you're doing this, regardless.

Jolanthe de Koning

And I know at the end, I'm going to be happy that I've done it.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes, exactly. It's always that, isn't it? It is always that.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah. Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

That brings me to one more myth, sorry to interrupt.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes, go… no, go for it, yep.

Jolanthe de Koning

Before I forget, it's the main message I want to bring people. It's do everything amid the mess.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

Because so often I hear people say,

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah, yeah, I really want to start my fitness routine, or my yoga routine,

Jolanthe de Koning

But I'm gonna tidy the spare room first.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

I'm going to create my lovely yoga zone.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And I'm like, that's never gonna happen.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, yeah. Lush! If you've got time to clear,

Jolanthe de Koning

Lovely thought!

Jolanthe de Koning

But, yeah. Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Cat some candles, or you could do it in the middle of the

Jolanthe de Koning

Just do it. Today, tonight. Um, shove away the mess, because the thing is, with yoga, you focusing inwards.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, kitchen, yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

So all the mess just fades into the background anyway.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Mmm.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, yeah, close your eyes and it's disappeared.

Jolanthe de Koning

So you have enough space for your mat, um…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

you know, seriously, you should see the mess I practice in.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

That's the only way it happens, you know?

Jolanthe de Koning

wait for your house to be perfect and tidy, and it will just never happen.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Exactly. It's…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes, exactly. And I think that's a really key point, isn't it? People are trying to do things too perfectly.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Mmm, yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Just do it messy.

Jolanthe de Koning

Absolutely.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Do it messy. Like, the triangle, hold it messy.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah, yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

You know, the toy… push the toys aside. Get the… like, close the door if the dog's gonna

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

interface. Like, it doesn't… it doesn't matter what it is,

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah, yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Giving yourself permission to create that space.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

for yourself, even if it is only

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

5 minutes in the middle of the toys.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Close your eyes, focus inward, connect with your essence.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And just start there.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah. Yeah, and even if the first many times you try, it's not even, like, a chilled zone.

Jolanthe de Koning

Even if you can't get any distance from your young family,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Mmm

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

Let them watch something on the sofa,

Jolanthe de Koning

and you do your little 5-minute, 10-minute practice, and even if you feel like, I'm not getting into the chill zone here,

Jolanthe de Koning

That's fine. For that moment, that was…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes. Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

You've done the best you can. You've done the movements, you've put in the effort and the practice.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

With practice, the chill zone will come.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Even if there's craziness going on around you.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah. I think that's a really important point, actually, especially to begin with. It is about doing it uncomfortably, isn't it?

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes, yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Because, you know, you're gonna… it's gonna take time to train yourself not to engage with those thoughts. So when you first start,

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

There is a tension attached to trying not to engage, and that's normal, and that's…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

that's… that's the lesson, isn't it? That is the learning. You are learning how to disassociate.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes. Yep.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

from your thinking, and to begin with, that's not going to be comfortable.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah. Well, to, yeah, disassociate, or just not, yeah, not place attachment to it.

Jolanthe de Koning

So you're associated in that you are…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes, yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Observing your thoughts, you're aware of it all happening.

Jolanthe de Koning

But not kind of placing too much importance on the thoughts.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah. Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

It's almost like having a radio on in the background, isn't it? You can hear the radio in the background, but you don't necessarily connect with what the

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

presenters are speaking, or the words that are being sung, or whatever. That's all you're doing with your mind, isn't it? You're just like, oh, it's there in the background.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah, because your attention is on the sensations in your body.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

In your body, yes. Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

So you're feeling, oh, what am I?

Jolanthe de Koning

Ankles doing? What are my thighs doing, what are my shoulders doing? And all of that takes up the bandwidth in your brain.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

that the chatter just fades a little bit.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

So good. So before we wrap up our conversation today, Lil Anthony, is there anything that we haven't spoke about that you think is relevant?

Jolanthe de Koning

Well, I was just… you reminded me about another myth.

Jolanthe de Koning

Because there's just endless, there's endless myths. So often, people have said,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yep. Endless, yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

Oh, yeah, but yoga is so uncomfortable.

Jolanthe de Koning

Like, it physically hurts my body a little bit, like…

Jolanthe de Koning

I just, ugh, people go into it thinking…

Jolanthe de Koning

This is going to be a really enjoyable spa session.

Jolanthe de Koning

And it's like, no, no, no, we're not going to the spa. This is work. This is work.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Mmm…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And part of the training of yoga

Jolanthe de Koning

is to allow yourself… to train yourself to stay calm and really…

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, in that, uh, parasympathetic nervous system, which is the relaxed one,

Jolanthe de Koning

Even if you're in physical discomfort.

Jolanthe de Koning

So you will feel physical discomfort. Stretching can be uncomfortable if you've got really tight hips.

Jolanthe de Koning

doing a hip opener feels really uncomfortable. That doesn't mean it's bad for you, it's good for you. And you're training yourself to stay calm.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

And then slowly, slowly, slowly catchy… softly catchy monkey.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

your body will release and feel okay, I'm safe, I can release, so…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

If you go in… if you're a newbie, and you go into a yoga class thinking it's going to be this amazing, chilled-out,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah. Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

spa experience, you'll be disappointed.

Jolanthe de Koning

And that's what people, you know… and people need to toughen up a little bit. If you want the benefits, and there's so many benefits, but you need to get

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah…

Jolanthe de Koning

a little bit uncomfortable.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, yeah. And it's… it's exactly the same with emotional resilience. We don't become resilient and strong because we avoid our emotions. We become resilient and strong because we sit with our… the discomfort… the uncomfortable ones.

Jolanthe de Koning

Mmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And realize it's harmless. And it's exactly the same with physical. Now, obviously, you don't want to put yourself in actual

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes!

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

torturous physical… because I guess there's a difference between… there's a… yes, there's also… you don't want to do yourself damage,

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes. There is a line, yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

But that discomfort of the stretch or the, you know, the tension and…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

That's what makes us stronger.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes, and I think that's where the real self-awareness comes in that I talked about right at the beginning.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

You'll become aware of when a sensation is purely a sensation of stiffness, or weakness,

Jolanthe de Koning

or when it's, like, a real twinge, and you're like, no, no, no, this is not good for me. So you become aware of your body, and you'll know when to hold back.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, that's… yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, and you'll have that autonomy. A good teacher should always say,

Jolanthe de Koning

You listen to what's right for you, you don't have to follow every pose, do less if you want to do less today.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

You take it in the way that suits you, if you're connected with your body.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, so good.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

So, you've got your app, we've said about the app a couple of times, so wherever you are in the world, if you kind of like these energy and her style,

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Tell us about the app.

Jolanthe de Koning

Thank you. Well, it is… I don't know when this is coming out, but it is… I'm currently going through a rebrand process.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Ooh, okay.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, so the old name was Bendy Life Yoga.

Jolanthe de Koning

The current name, as we are today.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

But I realized from everything I've been speaking about, my main messages actually say that it's got nothing to do with bendiness.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Why? Why was I using this word?

Jolanthe de Koning

So my new name is going to be Amid the Mess Yoga, because it's all about doing it amid the mess and chaos of your life.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Nice.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

as short and as imperfectly as it needs to be.

Jolanthe de Koning

So I have… I have a huge library of lots of little tiny classes, like 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 15 minutes, a few longer ones as well, some focused on posture, relaxation, strength,

Jolanthe de Koning

all the types of things, prenatal as well, there.

Jolanthe de Koning

Um, yeah, and it's an online app.

Jolanthe de Koning

You can just go to, um, my website, which I'm sure you'll link below.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes, we'll put all the links.

Jolanthe de Koning

You can have a look at some freebies that are there, just if you see if you like my style.

Jolanthe de Koning

And then, um, go on from there if you like.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, brilliant. And for people that are geographically close to you, do you do in-person yoga now classes?

Jolanthe de Koning

I do… excuse me, I do one in-person in Corsham, which is in Wiltshire.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

So on a Tuesday evening, I do that.

Jolanthe de Koning

currently, it's just because of the phase of life I'm in, with the young children, the bedtimes…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

So, um, once a week is enough at this phase.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, yeah, so if you are just… if you happen to be in Wiltshire and you're listening to this, and you're close to Corsham,

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Mmm, yeah.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And you can always… what time is that?

Jolanthe de Koning

7, 7 to 8.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

On which day, did you say?

Jolanthe de Koning

Tuesday. Tuesdays, 7-8pm, and it's in the town hall, it's got these… it's a huge space, but really warm.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Tuesday.

Jolanthe de Koning

And it's got twinkly lights, it's like… it's a magical yoga space. So, if anyone's, um, in North Wiltshire, I do recommend

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Nice.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Oh, pretty!

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

give me a shout.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, so good. But we will put all of…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

your links in the show notes below.

Jolanthe de Koning

Thank you. Thank you. And then, like I said, there's free stuff if someone wants to just dip their toe in.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

So,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Hmm.

Jolanthe de Koning

Turn on to the free one, absolutely fine.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, and they are really… and it… well, it was you that got me into doing the shorter…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Um, the shorter…

Jolanthe de Koning

Yay!

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

you know, the shorter class practices, yeah, exactly.

Jolanthe de Koning

practices. Yes, yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, so it's so good.

Jolanthe de Koning

Fantastic. Oh, that makes me so happy to hear that I've…

Jolanthe de Koning

impacted your life that way. That's wonderful.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was brilliant. Thank you so much. Well, it's been so lovely to have this conversation today. Thank you so much for joining me. I think I… hopefully the people listening will

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Oh, thank you.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

find it really valuable, and just inspire them to take

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

some action, even if it's a minute, even if it's 5 minutes, just start there.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

Especially… especially if they are a beginner.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

And then…

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes.

Jolanthe de Koning

That's the most barriers people have, is if they've never done it before, and they're so intimidated to go to a class, or to… they think, oh, no,

Jolanthe de Koning

I'm just not flexible, I can't do this, especially then,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

is really, really beneficial. And for the most stressed of us, who think, ah, my mind's way too drantic for yoga,

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

You will have the most benefit from it.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yeah, absolutely. In amongst all the mess. I love that new name.

Jolanthe de Koning

Yeah.

Jolanthe de Koning

Ah, yes.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Yes, love it.

Nicky Bevan, The Working Womens Life Coach

Thank you so much for joining me, and everybody else, I'll see you next week!