The Motherhood Mentor

Parenting Your “Spicy” Kid 🌶️ with Mary Van Geffen Learning to embrace and nurture your kids nature

• Rebecca Dollard: Somatic Mind-Body Life Coach, Enneagram Coach, Speaker, Boundaries Coach, Mindset • Season 1 • Episode 23

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This week, I’m thrilled to have Mary Van Geffen, a fantastic parenting coach for moms of spicy ones. Join us as we both share our motherhood journey with spicy kids and Mary shares her secrets for handling those wonderfully “spicy” kids who bring a splash(or a tidal wave) of boldness and emotion to family life. If you’ve ever felt like your child’s fiery spirit is a bit more than you bargained for, this episode is packed with insights just for you.

🌶️ Embracing Your “Spicy” Child: Mary dives into how to really get to know and appreciate your spirited child’s unique traits. Learn how to turn their intense emotions and independence into strengths and build a positive, supportive relationship that works for both of you.

🌟 Shifting from Control to Connection: Struggling to find balance between wanting control and embracing your child’s vibrant personality? Mary helps you shift from a strict, controlling approach to one that’s more gentle and understanding, all while steering clear of being overly permissive. Discover how to manage conflicts with empathy and create a family vibe that’s both peaceful and powerful.

💔 Tackling Mom Guilt and Inner Critic: We all know that “mom guilt” and that pesky inner critic can be relentless. Mary and I about how to set emotional and practical boundaries, prioritize self-care, and give yourself grace. These tips are all about helping you feel grounded and enjoy your parenting journey more.

🔧 Everyday Tips for Busy Moms: From handling morning meltdowns to dealing with outside pressures, Mary’s got you covered with practical strategies. Find out how to recognize the value of your efforts and tackle daily challenges with confidence and a smile.

💬 Join the Fun: Don’t miss this heart-to-heart that acknowledges the ups and downs of motherhood and celebrates your strength. If you enjoy this episode, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with fellow moms who could use a little extra support.

May you and your spicy ones know that you make the world a better place.

About  Mary:
Mary Van Geffen is the international parenting coach for moms of Spicy OnesTM️. She helps people who are highly competent in life but overwhelmed by motherhood to lean into the spiritual discipline of staying calm and cultivating warmth and tenderness all while trying to
wrangle fiery future CEOs. Often this requires serious skill-building and the balm of self-compassion. Mary has a ministry on Instagram where she posts an inspiring parenting tip every single day. Just reading her social media will help you delight in your child and remember that you are enough. Mary believes that when a mom realizes how hard she is on herself and cracks the door open for some self-compassion, her entire family is bathed in light! She offers on-line parenting classes and her signature 8 week group program: Moms of Spicy Ones to help moms gain the confidence to choose gentle, respectful parenting especially if they weren’t raised that way.
Mary is a certified Simplicity Parenting Counselor® and Professional Co-Active Coach, but her greatest achievement is cultivating a calm, kind and firm relationship with her Spicy go-getter daughter (now 18), mild child son (16) and un-Enneagramable hubby.
Where to connect: Moms of Spicy Ones® group coaching program.
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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Motherhood Mentor Podcast. I'm Becca, a somatic healing practitioner and a holistic life coach for moms, and this podcast is for you. You can expect honest conversations and incredible guests that speak to health, healing and growth in every area of our lives. This isn't just strategy for what we do. It's support for who we are. I believe we can be wildly ambitious while still holding all of our soft and hard humanity as holy. I love combining deep inner healing with strategic systems and no-nonsense talk about what this season is really like. So grab whatever weird health beverage you're currently into and let's get into it.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to today's episode of the Motherhood Mentor Podcast. Today, I have guest Mary Van Geffen on with me, who is just one of my favorite people that I've ever met. Mary is a parenting coach for parents of spicy ones, and if you have a child who is intense or emotional and or really hard for you and they're just spicy, Maybe your stereotypical parenting advice doesn't feel like it works on them, or maybe you feel like you are losing it. You feel more sensitive than you expected, or you find yourself just feeling overwhelmed and out of depth. She is such a phenomenal resource and one of the things I love most about her is she addresses the reality and the nuance of it, while keeping a positive intent and relationship to your child, not seeing these aspects of them as problematic or terrible about their identity or their sovereignty or their worth. It's so respectful and kind and generous, while also acknowledging how freaking hard it is. And this conversation was such a life-giving one for me and I'm just so excited to share Mary with you. So, without further ado, let's get into it.

Speaker 1:

Mary, I am so I always want to use your full name, like Mary Van Geffen. Every time I say your name, I want to say your full name because it just feels more fun. I am so excited to have you on the podcast today. Literally right before this, I was voxering one of my friends and she was describing her experience with her child and I just started chuckling and I said I know exactly who to send you to because she was talking about all of these parenting strategies and I just giggled and it was like, no matter what parenting strategy I did with my child, it just none of it worked, Like it just felt like it didn't matter how good I got. I just got a middle finger, like a very emotional middle finger and I remember being like I love this child so much but I think it might kill me, Like I think it might take me out, and so I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. So can you share who you are and what you do? I?

Speaker 2:

can. I'm so curious if your friend was was saying that or if you were saying that about getting the emotion. Oh, okay, it was a collective group of moms, the middle finger was the way that I was expressing what.

Speaker 1:

She said it much more eloquently and gently. I was like this is what it feels like to me.

Speaker 2:

Are you kidding me? Eloquence is a great metaphor and an emotional middle finger is exactly what we get from these spicy ones. I'm Mary Van Geffen and I am the parenting coach for the spicy ones and I provide lots of on-demand digital courses for sort of finding your footing and your confidence and your peace when it comes to parenting a strong-willed, intense and flexible kid. And my big thing twice a year is Moms of Spicy Ones group coaching program, which is opening on 9-11. So come join us. It's eight weeks of group coaching every week and then curriculum that you watch and then we kind of sift through it together and it's hard. It's hard when it feels like it's only you, because you look around and there's so many mild compliant children because developmentally that's kind of appropriate that oh, what does mommy think? Spicy women don't care what you think, except for they deeply care what you think.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, oh, my gosh, okay. So what are spicy ones? How do you know? If you have a spicy man, I mean one, just go and watch Mary's reels. That's what I did before we got on here. I was just like they make me so happy because I'm like someone gets it. You're watching my life.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, a spicy one is a fiercely independent kid. They may be neurodivergent or they may just be socially divergent and that they care more about their own internal compass than what an adult or a parent is telling them is important. And so there's a lot of conflict. And there's more conflict when a parent is sort of unhealed of their own stuff and they have this perspective that they're supposed to be in control. You're definitely in charge. You're not often in control of what a fiercely inflexible and highly sensitive and intuitive kid is going to do. So it's a total spiritual journey to kind of.

Speaker 2:

I feel like with spicy ones you get there quicker than all the other people who get there at teenage years, because I think every teenager is a spicy one, because we stopped being able to have the mirage of control of them. So spicy ones they are louder than your typical kid. They have friendship issues because they're trying to boss and control and they feel things deeply. They're highly intuitive. They notice things about you and if you're in a bad mood and they give it back to you 30 times before you've even had any conversation.

Speaker 2:

They use very powerful and hurtful words, but they also can be the biggest love bugs of all and they seem to have a giftedness, be like amazing at certain things and then just deficient in others. Often they literally can be gifted and often they can be have autism or an extra chromosome, and what makes them spicy is that you are under scrutiny from the world because this kid doesn't act like the rest of them. So it's a broad definition. It's not clinical. I'm a spicy one, my mother is an unhealed spicy one, my daughter is a spicy one and she's completely neurotypical. It's really eye of the beholder. But it's helpful because it brings a euphemism and a positivity around the traits that make this kid so hard to lead.

Speaker 1:

Oh and oh my gosh One of the things I love about your approach. I wanted to raise a spicy one Like. I remember looking at this like tiny little baby and being like I want you to be able to like speak your mind and set boundaries and like feel all of your emotions. And then she did and I was like this feels terrible. I need you to listen and be quiet and stop triggering me, because that that unhinged like I use the word feral, not in a negative way, but like cannot be tamed, refuses to like comply. I had no idea how much that would challenge my ego. And that's you. You use the word spiritual journey, which I also use, but also that spiritual journey. It did not feel like this, like yoga, um, like. I think people when they think of a spiritual journey, they think it's going to be like this beautiful, cute, really fun thing, and for me, spiritual journey is like gnashing my teeth and crying and setting boundaries and having to feel things that are really uncomfy for me to feel.

Speaker 2:

And redefine your identity. Because if you thought that a good mother has a child who listens and who looks put together and dresses the way you want and wants to wear mommy and me outfits, and if you thought that was what a good mother was, then you have this whole identity problem. Thought that was what a good mother was, then you have this whole identity problem. Can I love myself when I see myself acting unlovable to this child? I'm becoming a monster on some level and I'm overreacting and I don't like what I'm doing. Can I love myself? Can I love this kid when they're not trying to earn it? So I feel like there's also yeah, it's not an ohm beautiful light stretching. It's like you got through an overboard. Now try to swim back to the boat. Now I'm throwing you off again. What are you learning?

Speaker 1:

What are you learning? Well, and two. For me, I think part of it was watching her have freedom from things that I had yet not experienced, like I was watching her actually be this healed little human, and it brought out things in me that I hadn't healed. It brought out a lot of the shame culture. That's when I started deconstructing of realizing like, oh wow, was this spirituality or was it shame? Was it needing to be perfect to be lovable? Was it me needing to be neat and tidy in order for people to be able to love me and help me? And I started to realize how small my definition of love was.

Speaker 1:

I really thought love was this me, meek, soft and nurturing thing, and I had never really understood angry love or boundary love or intense, you know, independence, right, like I had a stage five clinger who then all of a sudden was like massively independent and like both of them were triggering in different ways. I'm curious when you're working with moms, what is their experience of? Is the spiciness the child's, or is there also like a level at least the way I see it of spiciness coming from the mom, or her sensitivity, or what she's expecting motherhood to look and feel like? Yeah, there's two ways to answer that. One is like, or what she's expecting motherhood to look and feel like.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and there's. There are two ways to answer that. One is like trying to figure out is it me or them? And a lot of times what we start off with in moms, the spicy ones, is like what, what is your need for control, your need for order, your need for peace? And how might that be on some level in addiction, because it can't be met while you're dealing with this type of child. And then how might you be a highly sensitive person who is overstimulated by 10 AM? And is that really about your child? I mean, yeah, you, you got.

Speaker 2:

It's a mismatch on some level because you got this loud, doesn't care what you think kid, so it's hard to get that quiet time and to reconnect. So some of that is the parent. And then there's just this other way of answering it, which is did you grow up being a people pleaser and having your spiciness squashed? And now, like you said, you're watching this like brilliant, being coming into, like blooming, and you're thinking, well, I never got to do that, is that okay? Like you don't have a lived experience of operating in the world safely, like that. And now you're supposed to be the guide for this kid. Now you're supposed to be the guide for this kid.

Speaker 2:

And then there's also maybe a third component of people who are like, no, I've been spicy since birth and I'm yelling at this kid and I can't get ahold of my anger. And maybe I I haven't learned some of the um, some of the con, healthy conflict, I haven't learned how to communicate in a way that brings people onto the same team, um, but primarily, I think that the person that comes to me is is undercover spicy, they don't, they haven't explored that part. They might say, oh, I'm not very intuitive. It's like, yeah, cause you haven't been honoring what you know to be true, and so that's where this becomes this journey. And the kid is the catalyst and they always think, oh great, I'm going to sign up and you're going to help me change this kid. But really there's so much for you to shift and grow and change in so that they do change, because one person changing in a family system most definitely changes the family system.

Speaker 2:

But it's just amazing how, like, the first four weeks of my class have nothing to do with doing anything with a kid. It's just kind of getting grounded and centered and figuring out yourself and your younger self and what is your capacity for positive response, your CPR. I call it like versus. Do you flip into a critical judgmental space in your head versus. Do you flip into a critical judgmental space in your head mostly aimed at yourself, but also waking up that part of your spicy one who's like you think I'm wrong. Well, I'm actually extremely allergic to shame, so I'm going to bring it back at you 700%.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, that critical nature piece is huge. And I love that you use the word conflict because I think for a very long time, parenting coaches or parenting experts, they only talk about discipline. They only talk about what to do to your child to control them, and I think for a lot of years our culture controlled kids. Parenting was very authoritarian. And then you look, if you look at like the culture of motherhood and parenting, and then we swung really really far into like the gentle attachment parenting, which, like is where I started doing a lot of my parenting. But then there was this like wait, but my kid still needs an authority.

Speaker 2:

Like this is my kid is still only been on the earth for, you know, three years. Maybe I do need to be the one in charge. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Like I remember looking at my kid and being like, okay, like, yes, I want to be this, like affirming positive force in her life, but also like none of your dental parenting is working, like it's not making her more gentle I think that's what I wanted it to do and then it didn't work. And then I thought something was either wrong with her or wrong with me, because it was all about this, like what I was doing to her, and it was never about the reality that there is a conflict between two beings and the reality that at that point in my life, like when I look back to early motherhood, conflict felt like death to me Boundaries, what boundaries. I have needs and wants and I'm supposed to hold those higher than hers, equal to hers, like who gets to decide what we're doing? And I think in that phase of life I was really frustrated because I couldn't find I couldn't find anyone talking about a way of parenting that brought the wisdom from both of those things.

Speaker 2:

Hmm, yeah, brought the wisdom from both of those things. Yeah, and I think that the term gentle parenting has been too watered down and it does seem synonymous with permissive. I don't think it is so. It's like you don't need a phrase for what you're doing. If you're listening to this, you are trying to figure out a way to honor the child in front of you and honor yourself, to be the leader. You could call it respectful parenting, intentional parenting, you know conscious parenting positive parenting.

Speaker 1:

What? It doesn't need a box, it doesn't need a label.

Speaker 2:

It just has to. It has to resonate with your values. And often you come to parenting and you don't even know what your values are, because that's developmentally appropriate for a 35 year old to not quite know what matters most to them, because it's shifting and changing. But what's so hard, I think, is we all have the ghost script of our parents echoing in our heads. And I mean I'm here on vacation with my mom and she would say often, as I was growing up, there's only one queen. You want to be queen but you're not going to be queen. And I mean that's a paradigm that one person's up and one person's down. But what a world this would be if we can actually figure out a way to account and show empathy and compassion for someone's needs, even when we are not going to meet them.

Speaker 2:

You know, the kind of conscious parenting that I'm talking about is not about child led families. It's it might be child centered, and even that feels kind of strong because it's everybody centered. And sometimes that means people are going to be really upset because they're not going to get what they want. And you are trying to build the tolerance for your spicy one of not getting what they want, because there's so much in life they don't get, like I realized the other day and I'm thinking I don't want to do this, and I realized I've kind of created a life where I don't do things I don't want to do. How privileged and economically righteous of me, right, but that is the spicy one. Temperament is like a fiery resistance to having someone else set the frame and people say, well, how are they going to get a job? They're going to get. They're going to be the entrepreneurs, they're going to burn out in corporate, they will make a job. They will make a job and they will. Um, they have that, thankfully, that inner fire where they fall down, they get back up. Um, it's funny, you said like I didn't think this was working and maybe something's wrong with me or my kid, and and there I just I ask everyone to figure out.

Speaker 2:

Well, what does it mean to work? Does it mean that your child is happy? Oh, guess what? We can't make that, especially if we have an Eeyore child or an Enneagram four, like I am. We, we don't get to decide that they're happy, is it that they comply? I don't know if you can get them to comply all the time. So really figuring out and that's a big part of the work I do is like what? What does success mean? And can it be something within your control? And often it is. How are you going to show up in your being, in your energy, in your thought life, in your actions, no matter what the spicy one does, and watch how? That doesn't change how the spicy one shows up, because so many of us are letting them set the temperature, and that gets harder in certain scenarios. You try to go on a car trip with a spicy one and they're unhappy. It is really hard to stay grounded and happy, but that is the work the work.

Speaker 1:

Oh, you just said so many powerful things. Just, I think there's this assumption in motherhood and I think so many women have taken this on, and so it's really powerful to name it. What is your job as a mom? Is it for your child? You know, I think most women would say, well, I just want my kids to be happy and healthy, and it's like that sounds really positive. But the reality is that your kids are going to have a human experience which is not always positive and healthy. They're going to get sick, they are going to face really hard things, and some of that is completely outside of your control.

Speaker 1:

I think the older my kids get, the more I have come to realize, like you know, the rug gets pulled out of you enough times that you realize, like there is no rug.

Speaker 1:

And there's some days where I'm like I want the rug back, where I thought that there was this scenario where I could just I could parent them perfectly enough that I could somehow give them everything they need.

Speaker 1:

And then it was like, okay, they're human beings who, one, there's a lot outside of my control, but two, like they also have all of this agency and choice and they're going to choose things that I might not choose and like.

Speaker 1:

What would it look like to parent in a way that is within my control, that I can look at myself as a leader and how I'm showing up and how I'm behaving, and then look at them as a whole person, who isn't always going to be happy? But how do we show up in those hard times? How do we show up when we're not feeling good? How do we show up when we're angry, having fits and dysregulated? Can I equip them for that life experience? And when I changed that to be my parenting goal? I don't always get it right, but when I don't get it right, I know how to pivot and I'm not constantly in this. Like you know, people talk a lot about mom guilt and mom shame. I don't. I don't experience a ton of that anymore, because it's like when I do something outside of alignment, it's like, okay, I messed up, now I know where.

Speaker 2:

But you also have a super kind internal voice Now I do and you've got amazing boundaries For those listening. I got to see Becca set some boundaries in Vegas with well-meaning people and it was amazing. But you said something like what is the job of the mom? And your job description was so altruistic that they'd be healthy and happy. And we're not all saints. Some of us are like that they listen to me or that they are, um, that they love me, and even that, like I'm now dealing, now having a 20 year old and a 18 year old, almost 18. Um, they they're, they go off and they have independence and they, um, even though you're connected and it's a positive relationship, they are MIA because they're out creating a life and an identity, because they're out creating a life and an identity, and if even something as harmless as like saying, well, I'm a good mom, if I have a connected relationship with my college student, even that can set you up for some harm, because there will be a pulling away and a coming back and it's okay.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so when you're working with moms of spicy ones, you mentioned that you start with them. You mentioned that you start with. Like I'm trying to think of, the word Capacity is coming up to me. I don't know if that word is what you did?

Speaker 2:

I said capacity for positive response, or CPR. What is? That is what you did. I said capacity for positive response or CPR.

Speaker 1:

What is that? Tell us about that?

Speaker 2:

Well, that comes with developing the muscle of noticing parts of you bullying you, what I call your inner mean girl. Inner mean girl. When you become aware of the inner mean girl and you stop treating her as if she's you and you externalize that part of you and you get in touch with your more centered, warm, calm inner parent. So so much of it is an inside game. So it's becoming aware of thought life. It's also practicing pauses throughout your day so that you're not operating out of sort of an unconscious hurried mode so often.

Speaker 2:

When I first started that process of taking two times a day to just check in with my body, I would always find that everything was clenched, especially in my belly, and there was a running ticker tape in my mind going got to get this, got to make, this, got to do this, like that rabbit running around with the clock in Alice in Wonderland.

Speaker 2:

And who can be happy in that internal landscape?

Speaker 2:

Who can be a good leader in that internal landscape, clenched and stressing themselves out with their internal dialogue? So having a I call it a conscious pause twice a day even, either set an alarm or you link it to something. Before I open the refrigerator to make lunch, I take a moment and I come out of my thoughts and I come into my body and I'm sure you could lead us in some amazing sensory moment, and then I choose the next thought and I forgive myself if the thought right before I did my conscious pause was this child's out to kill me, cause that's not a very resourceful thought. Right and it and and often the questions that we're carrying, if it's like what is wrong with this kid, and often the questions that we're carrying if it's like what is wrong with this kid, then our brain will gladly offer up many things that are wrong with this kid. So it's becoming aware of your thought life, bringing kindness and tenderness to it and pausing enough to notice that and that's like that's 40% of the work.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, and, and what I'm hearing in that too and this is something I work with moms a lot is noticing their urgency, like noticing how dramatic we're being about our drama and even about our kids, because I think when you have a spicy one, they can be so dramatic and I'm also a spicy one, so I also tend to be very dramatic, especially about emotions, right Like I'm a very emotional heart driven person.

Speaker 1:

And so then I got a kid who was also that way and I would find I would find that I was feeding off of the, the energy, and not noticing like there is nothing intense or urgent about this, there is nothing dramatic about this, and I was overly empathetic, so I had really bad emotional boundaries where I was not feeling what was happening in my body.

Speaker 1:

I was so attuned to what was happening in her body and trying to like fix it and make it go away, right, like that was my, that's the fawning, that's the people pleasing is I, I need to make you okay so that I'm okay. And one of the profound things started happening is when I started noticing, emotionally and energetically, like this is not urgent, this is not dramatic Like this. This is a scenario that I can pause on, I don't have to respond right away, cause I think I was so quick to try to have some sort of response that I never gave myself time to like get grounded and feel myself before I did that. It was so reflexive, and so I found myself responding in ways that I'm like wait, that's not how I want to parent, that's not how I want to respond, because it was almost just like I was just constantly trying to like swat away the intensity because it was so much yeah and and folks might be listening and being like well, that's great for you.

Speaker 2:

You're not time starved Like my family.

Speaker 1:

We have to get somebody to daycare by 7am.

Speaker 2:

You know that's a lie. That's a lie from your inner mean girl who is like you don't have time for this. You have 30 seconds to breathe and put a hand on your belly and a hand on your heart and to say I love you, I've got you. Okay, let's walk into the day and we don't do it. We don't mother ourselves. We kick into and and that can also be. You can signal that to yourself by like.

Speaker 2:

I want you to brush your teeth and put your deodorant on and your hair and get clothes on and shoes on before you tend to somebody else. It's just the basics. It's not revolutionary, but it will change your being because there's a part of you that's like I'm making food for her and I haven't even had a chance to pee. You've got this martyr within you. It's and tend to her a little bit. Care for her in the first eight minutes of the day, even though someone's going to be upset, someone's going to cry a little bit longer in the crib, though someone's going to be upset, someone's going to cry a little bit longer in the crib, or somebody's going to get ragey because they need to eat immediately and their blood sugar's low. I want you to first take responsibility for you. That's what a good leader does, and it's not being selfish, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, cause well, well-fed women will be different mothers. Because when we are starving, when we are hangry, it's like. I think the best way for me to describe this is like if you take a toddler who missed their nap, who hasn't had lunch, and you take them to target, you can't expect them to behave, they can't. They are outside of their capacity. And yet what moms do is we put on like superhero capes and we're like I have no capacity, I can do all. And there's really like this godlike expectation that you don't have very real, non-negotiable needs in order to be able to show up very real, non-negotiable needs in order to be able to show up.

Speaker 1:

My whole foundation of what I do in my business is like when we tend to the mother, when we care for you, all of your wellbeing, your holistic health and wellness, all of the parenting will flow from that. Because when you, when you are centered and grounded grounded in who you are and you have your needs met, you are able to parent in such a different way. It actually takes less time and energy. Like you don't have the time not to take care of you. If you are the woman who is spinning all the plates, it becomes non-negotiable to make sure that you keep running and yet you keep expecting yourself to go on fumes. So I love that simple strategy and I and I say simple, it's not easy, because this is the work I live and breathe, not only for myself and my clients and I, on a regular basis, accidentally default to what everybody else wants and needs on a regular basis, and this is literally what I do for a living. Like it's. It's hard to remember sometimes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it, it's, it's. It will look different, but it will always be there, this, this push and pull to care for you, and sometimes at the expense of others. And, like now, in these days, it looks like, oh, you only have a few more months or year of them home. Just give up everything and just be with them, and then that's the. That's sort of what my inner mean girl would say. And yet I know that I am more enjoyable to be with when I have a goofy, silly laugh, because I'm secretly delighted that I took care of this thing. That was important to me and I come with a lighter inner landscape than. Okay, I'm showing up for you, I'm doing it all for you so that we can be connected. It's just a that's a gripped um mindset versus or a clenched up one.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. Well, and you mentioned that time thing, and I think this is a perfect conversation, because so many people are getting back to school and mornings at my house used to look and feel very, very different. And what I want to make sure I'm noting is that the children still have meltdowns often and regularly. The children don't want to go to school, the children don't want what I've made for breakfast. The children are stressed that we're going to be late or we're not going to be early, and the thing that has changed is that I am not attuning to. I'm attuning to them and caring for them mentally and emotionally, but first I'm caring for me and I'm letting me set the tone. So my rule is that if we are running late, we do not need to panic because it won't make us on time, and if I'm gonna be late, I'm gonna show up in a good mood, and I have had this tested for me over and over and over again.

Speaker 1:

I do not like being late. I hate being late. It feels stressful. I want to be early to things and I have to take a minute and slow down and breathe and put on some music because I'm going to get there, and so I've noticed my children generally are a little bit less stressed because I've started setting the tone. But that's hard work, that takes a lot of intention and it's not necessarily easy, because I think there's so much mom content out there and this feels important to name for me there's so much mom content out there that makes it seem like you can somehow come up with a perfect morning routine that will make it so easy and smooth and not hard, and I just think it's setting women up with such unrealistic expectations.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, especially if you have a spicy one who you can do, it all right and they might have a need to emotionally melt down for the sensorial experience and they're going to find it and push your buttons and yeah. And I love that you named that we can be doing this right and I'm doing air quotes and still have a uh, an unhappy and unregulated child, and let us not or self or self, like I'm doing all of the things right.

Speaker 1:

Like if you look at the list of things I'm doing right, it's like yep, got it. And then also like I still have shit days where I feel like a bridge troll, like that's like yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I, I love to tell people about the inner mean girls and I still have an inner mean girl who's like nobody wants to hear it from you. It's like, excuse me, I just need to post this real. I have to step around her as she tells me how basic I am and that it's all been said before, and uh, and yet I persist.

Speaker 1:

What do you so? What do you do with that inner mean girl? How do you respond to her? What's your trick?

Speaker 2:

Usually, I don't realize she's there, you know, until I'm finding myself in a funk and saying what's the point of this? And then I realized, oh wow, this is the energetic footprint of that inner mean girl I have, who judges me as needing too much attention and basic and cringy. And so then I notice her and I just tell her oh my gosh, 1,700 moms and families have changed the way they do life because of me and my classes. And that's not true, and I don't have to be for everybody, but I know that there are some people that I am a lifeline for and I know that my mental health is not great when I am comparing myself, so like I don't really.

Speaker 2:

I have people I know who are parenting coaches, who I follow Cause I think it would be hurtful for me to unfollow, but I'm not looking at any of their content, because we are all the good ones, are saying the same thing. We're just saying it from our point of view and our personality. And, um, I'm in the process of writing a book and my inner mean girl is just like oh my gosh, this is the most basic book it's ever been written, Like there's 30,000 other parenting books. And it's just she's there, she's wearing all black she's got and I am just trying to be my Pollyanna self in the midst of her. Sometimes it's just it's. I guess a big part of it is saying it's not you, it's a part of you, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So not being so over identified with it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well, if you ever need me to talk to your inner mean girl, I got your back.

Speaker 2:

We're both scared of that.

Speaker 1:

She ever? Oh, you're both scared. Okay, maybe not. I'll be nice, I promise I'll set boundaries with her for you.

Speaker 2:

How about that good?

Speaker 1:

no, but I think I think it's so important that we talk about those inner mean girls because I think so it's not something other people can see, and it's really easy for women on the other side who are consuming and I say consuming as content, because that was like the frame we were using but when you're just looking at someone, you can't see that inner mean girl, you're not seeing the doubt or the insecurity or the fear, and so you look and you think I could never do that. But what you don't realize is like those women have that same voice. They've just learned not to overly listen or let that voice stop them from doing things that they want to do or that they need to do. And I think, even as a parent, there's so much self doubt and I think women really underestimate themselves of what they're capable, of, the amount of conflict that they can hold, the nuance, the big decision-making. We are really underestimating ourselves because we have learned to let these inner critics name us and decide our worth and decide what we do and don't do. And I have a whole playlist that when that inner critic comes up, whether it's parenting or my business or what I'm creating, and I just put that playlist on and it's just like.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes my inner critic needs like a hug and I just tuck her in and I'm like it's going to be okay. Like just go take a nap, it's fine, I've got you, I've got this. Sometimes it needs a boundary and a middle finger of like you know what, shut up, like don't, don't be mean to me. Like if that voice is abusive or rude to me, I'm not nice to it. Like I don't feel friendly about voices that don't speak from my worth or value, like they don't get to have a hold over me. Um, sometimes it's just sarcasm, like I literally just like. My favorite line ever is like but did you die? But like but will you die? Like, well, you know, just, it's really not that dramatic. Most of the time the things that I have to do are not that dramatic and in parenting the spicy ones it can feel really dramatic A lot of the time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's this like thing that happens for a lot of us. It almost feels like the tide that goes up and then crashes down, or the moon that gets big and then small. And it's when you have to set a limit with a spicy one. I mean, we're setting limits all the time, but when you have to set a limit, they don't see coming, they aren't expecting Um and you know they are not going to be okay with. And it still happens with a 20 year old Um, and you think, oh gosh, is there any way to? It feels like Christ right before crucifixion. Is there any way I can get around this? Like how can I make it their idea or how can I? And you realize like no, I've got to say no to this, it's the right thing to do and I have to enforce it. And then you think it feels like there's going to be a death on the other side of that, like a death of relationship, or maybe you don't have the right to do it. And then you do it and they freak out she, there's somebody in my home that would freak out more than the other. And then it's okay on the other end.

Speaker 2:

Like just the other night my 17-year-old came into my bedroom at 1130, because that's when they want to talk. He's like, hey, mom. I'm like hey, how was your night? He's like good. He's like I think I'm going to head down to San Diego. I live in Long Beach, san Diego is two hours away.

Speaker 2:

It's 1130 at night and suddenly I'm doing all this calculus in my head which is like I'm of the belief let them be pretty un-curfewed that last year before college, because then there's a drop off, and if they haven't had to manage some of what goes on when they don't have an exterior boundary and I don't think that's for everyone, this is I'm talking about my mild child and he's doesn't, doesn't want to drink until he's 21. And you know he's just. I know this kid right, everybody has a different one. But here I am staring at him and he's say I said what are you talking about? It's 1130 at night. And he said, yeah, I just want to like ride down PCH wind in my hair and play music like really loud.

Speaker 2:

And I know the answer is no, because the odds of something bad happening far outweigh the odds of something good Like and I have this voice in my head nothing good happens after midnight. You know what I mean. And also he's, he's only been driving for a year and it's just, it's a bad idea. But I had that wave moment where it's like, oh, we're so connected. Right now he's confiding in me what he what's going to make him feel good and it doesn't hurt anybody, and oh, and you're about to almost betray him on some level, right. And then I was like and also, what if you say no and he still does it? What if you say no and he still does it? What if you say no and he calls your bluff right?

Speaker 1:

So there's all this happening.

Speaker 2:

Like how are you going?

Speaker 1:

to enforce that. What am I going to do?

Speaker 2:

Go, put my hands in front of the front door. And I ended up saying, yeah, that's not okay with me and I give you a lot of freedom, but not this one. And he was like why? Why, I don't understand, and, but not this one. And he was like why? Well, I don't understand. And he said that's how I meditate, mom, that's my meditation just driving and there's always traffic and there won't be any traffic anyway. So I said no, and we got through it.

Speaker 2:

And I will say that two weeks later, on life 360, he was driving with a friend, not at 1130. And that friend's mom is my best friend and she said I just got a life's 360 alert that your child is driving 99 miles an hour. So I'm just so happy. I set the limit and I guess, in you know, we had to have a whole consequence thing around that. But my point being is that it's a familiar feeling that to step up to and set a boundary feels like we are like about to step off a cliff and die, especially with a spicy one, and we get better and better at it and it still feels really wonky.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, cause a lot of times after that boundary there is a grief, or just a suffering of connection right Right, like not only will they may not like it, but you might not like it, and that's why so many women avoid boundaries is like there is a, there's a very real grief that can come on the other side. There's a lot of times it's harder in the moment. Long-term it's usually not, but in the moment it can feel massively uncomfortable. But those moments of discomfort when you are present with yourself, you can learn how to feel that and not collapse in on yourself, especially if you're not allowing that bad feeling to make it mean that you're bad, that you've done something wrong. Because I think a lot of women they get that bad feeling. They call it right Like I just feel bad and it's like well, what's the sensation of it? And is it guilt, is it shame?

Speaker 1:

And this is why I think emotional intelligence is so important for mothers is to understand did you do something outside of your values? Or are you doing hard work? And it feels hard because it is hard. Good things are hard to do. Being a good parent is hard and uncomfortable and it doesn't always feel fun and flowery and joyful. I would love if my motherhood always just felt happy and fun. Or you know, I'm a two. So like I would love if it just always felt like really nurturing and we had these like really beautiful conversations and I got to give them like my beautiful wisdom and they were just like mom thank you so much for teaching me that but like that's not what it actually looks, it feels like so often.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and let's let us not discount the power of modeling that you, as the parent living this life of setting boundaries, that you're cringing at, dealing with the aftermath and the discomfort with maturity, resting in emotions for a bit instead of trying to numb them out. You doing this is your child's curriculum that they are living and breathing and noticing and just it's the water they swim in, and so they're getting better at those things they're learning. You know their brain is wiring, watching your brain work through this stuff. So it's, it's really not. It might, it might hurt, but it has such a higher purpose not it might.

Speaker 1:

it might hurt, but it has such a higher purpose, even beyond yourself. It might hurt, but it has such a higher purpose that's really really helpful of. Like. Noticing is, I think, our culture, really we are. We are creatures of comfort. We don't want to be uncomfortable, right Like if you think of how often we have to be massively uncomfortable. Don't want to be uncomfortable, right, like if you think of how often we have to be massively uncomfortable. It's pretty rare, like we have so many conveniences in our lives and I think it's taught us to be kind of emotionally. We feel inconvenienced when we have to feel things that are uncomfortable and we don't realize like it's okay to feel this, like you're going to be okay, like this isn't an awful, terrible bad thing and you're showing your kids that when you do it and it's such a powerful it creates a new cycle of health for the whole family.

Speaker 2:

That's a great place to end.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I love that. Okay, do you have anything?

Speaker 2:

else you want to name or share. It opens on 9-11 and I think it closes nine days later, so maybe 9-20,. September 20th is the last day to register, and it happens twice a year. So and it's expensive it's $4.99, but it's eight weeks that will change your life.

Speaker 1:

So I hope you'll join us if that sounds like it's interesting to you. That is such a worthy, worthwhile investment. And I just have to say for sure, make sure you're following Mary, because her content like when I tell you, just like on whenever I'm like, oh, I need something to like make me laugh or make me feel normal, I just like I go look at Mary Van Keffen and it just like makes my day. So thank you, thank you for overcoming your inner mean girl, because I'm I'm really glad that you showed up and that you do this work and that I got to know you and meet you. So thank you so much for sharing today on the podcast and if you listened, we want to hear from you. So send me a message or send Mary a message, tell us about your spicy one, or ask a question. I would love to hear your. Thank you so much, mary.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining me on today's episode of the motherhood mentor podcast. Make sure you have subscribed below so that you see all of the upcoming podcasts that are coming soon. I hope you take today's episode and you take one aha moment, one small, tangible piece of work that you can bring into your life to get your hands a little dirty to get your skin in the game. Don't forget to take up audacious space in your life. If this podcast moved you, if it inspired you, if it encouraged you, please do me a favor and leave a review. Send an episode to a friend. This helps the show gain more traction. It helps us to support more moms, more women, and that's what we're doing here. So I hope you have an awesome day, take really good care of yourself, and I'll see you next time.

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Mary Van Geffen

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