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The Motherhood Mentor
Welcome to The Motherhood Mentor Podcast your go-to resource for moms seeking holistic healing and transformation. Hosted by mind-body somatic healing practitioner and holistic life coach Becca Dollard.
Join us as we explore the transformative power of somatic healing, offering practical tools and strategies to help you navigate overwhelm, burnout, and stress. Through insightful conversations, empowering stories, and expert guidance, you'll discover how to cultivate resilience, reclaim balance, and thrive in every aspect of your life while still feeling permission to be a human. Are you a woman who is building a business while raising babies who refuses to burnout? These are conversations and support for you.
We believe in the power of vulnerability, connection, and self-discovery, and our goal is to create a space where you feel seen, heard, and valued.
Whether you're juggling career, family, or personal growth, this podcast is your sanctuary for holistic healing and growth all while normalizing the ups and downs, the messy and the magic, and the wild ride of this season of motherhood.
Your host:
Becca is a mom of two, married for 14years to her husband Jay living in Colorado. She is a certified somatic healing practitioner and holistic life coach to high functioning moms. She works with women who are navigating raising babies, building businesses, and prioritizing their own wellbeing and healing. She understands the unique challenges of navigating being fully present in motherhood while also wanting to be wildly creative and ambitious in her work. The Motherhood Mentor serves and supports moms through 1:1 coaching, in person community, and weekend retreats.
Follow on IG: @themotherhoodmentor , send me a dm and let me know you found me through the podcast!
Website: https://www.the-motherhood-mentor.com/
Want to join the email fam for free workshops and more support: https://themotherhoodmentor.myflodesk.com/ujaud8t4x9
The Motherhood Mentor
Beyond the Waiting: Navigating the Emotional Rollercoaster of Fertility and IVF with Lisa White
This episode explores the emotional and holistic aspects of fertility journeys, how we show up to seasons without control, particularly focusing on IVF and the journey many women have to becoming a mother. Becca and her guest Lisa White dive deep into how we show up to infertility, IVF, becoming a mother, the identity we hold outside of motherhood and the timing of things. Lisa shares powerful perspectives on how she showed up to this season and how it impacted her and now supports the women she works with women going through fertility and IVF. It's more than just physical and biology- it's mental, emotional, and spiritual to walk through the journey and we hope this episode gives you language, permission, and support for your journey.
Topics in this episode:
• Discussing the rise of fertility struggles in women
• The role of male factor infertility in couples’ challenges
• Importance of early medical testing and support
• Emotional toll of fertility challenges on women
• Holistic approaches to coping with IVF and self-care practices
• Building community and finding sisterhood during struggles- building resource and support
• Using mindfulness and self-care to nurture the emotional self
• Exploring the concept of choice and personal empowerment
• Lessons learned about resilience throughout the IVF journey
• The importance of staying connected to oneself during fertility challenges and seasons of waiting
If this podcast episode resonated, Becca and Lisa would love to hear from you. Send us a DM on social and let us know you listened! What resonated or stuck out to you?
About Lisa:
Lisa White is a holistic IVF Coach, a national board-certified occupational therapist, author of the fertility book, ‘HOLD ON, BABY!’ and the host of the SOULFUL IVF Podcast. She specializes in helping women navigate the ride of IVF with a focus on mindset, energetics, and soulful living.
As a lifelong practitioner of manifestation and holistic approach to wellness, Lisa applied these same principles on her fertility journey. With one healthy embryo holding on for her and her husband, they beat the odds and found “success” despite a long road of unexpected setbacks and surgeries. She helps women stay empowered, hold onto hope, and most importantly hold onto themselves while on their path to motherhood. Lisa guides women through private coaching support, group programs, and online
resources. Most recently she created her signature online course – ‘‘The Energetics of IVF.’ She resides just north of Denver, Colorado with her husband and 7-year-old daughter.
Connect with her at:
Website
IG:
LinkedIn
Facebook
YouTube
Book
Podcast
Join us next time as we continue to explore the multifaceted journey of motherhood.
Thank you for tuning in to The Motherhood Mentor. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review us.
Stay connected with us on social media and share your thoughts and experiences tagging @themotherhoodmentor
Welcome to the Motherhood Mentor Podcast. I'm Becca, a somatic healing practitioner and a holistic life coach for moms, and this podcast is for you. You can expect honest conversations and incredible guests that speak to health, healing and growth in every area of our lives. This isn't just strategy for what we do. It's support for who we are. I believe we can be wildly ambitious while still holding all of our soft and hard humanity as holy. I love combining deep inner healing with strategic systems and no-nonsense talk about what this season is really like. So grab whatever weird health beverage you're currently into and let's get into it.
Speaker 1:Welcome to today's episode of the Motherhood Mentor Podcast. Today I have Lisa White with me and I am so excited for this guest interview. I met Lisa two years ago at the Ellume Denver, like gala, and we sat together at a table and it was just such a great connection and I've been wanting to just sit down and have conversations, and having a podcast is a really good excuse to have wonderful conversations with people who I just find fascinating and I just love the work you do in the world. And today in the podcast we're going to talk about fertility journeys and IVF not just the medical model, but also what it feels like, what it looks like and how you can support yourself. And I wonder if we can even talk about how to support other people when they're on that journey. But I would love if you would just introduce who you are and your journey with fertility and IVF.
Speaker 2:Thank you, becca. This is so fun that we're here together. Thank you for having me. My name's Lisa, I'm here in Colorado and, yeah, this whole world of fertility was something I never anticipated stepping into as far as facing struggles, going to get pregnant pretty easily and it was something that my husband and I faced when we had been married for about a year and I got married at 37. He's 7 years older than me and so age was not really on our side per se, but it's something that we confronted together as a team, and after about a year, year and a half it was like, okay, we're going to get some testing done and then discovered that we had some male factor issues, which isn't always talked about.
Speaker 2:A third of fertility challenges can be male related. I knew I had some uterine polyps and that was like our starting point of getting support, getting some answers of like, okay, why are we not getting pregnant? I always knew I wanted to be a mom. That was something on my heart that I'm like, yeah, it's going to happen in one way, shape or form, and I did not know anything about IVF. It was the whole world and I don't think many do. It's not something we ever think about really, and now it's talked about a lot more, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:I think I just heard a recent statistic that one in five now are facing fertility challenges. It was one in eight for a long time, I think, when I started down this path and became one in six. I just heard a doctor yesterday say it's one in five and like I don't have the answers to know why, you know there's hormone disruptors, people are waiting longer, women, you know, per delaying childbearing, all the things, and so this whole world opened up that I took a really unique out of the box approach and how I was going to navigate through this. That really supported us and I'm happy to share, you know, really in depth, like what we went through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was? I'm curious what it was like in that year of trying and then making the decision to like something. Might be wrong and I even hesitate to use that word wrong of like but I, you know, I've had the experience, and I know other women have had the experience, of feeling like betrayed by their bodies, feeling very lonely, especially like if you're experiencing losses along the way too, or just like, month after month, it's not happening. I wonder, like, what did that feel like for you, and was it a relief to get help? Was it scary to get help?
Speaker 2:Yeah, our situation was unique. I never experienced ever getting pregnant and never had a loss. So I'll just share that right away. Yeah, I don't know what it feels like to have gone through a miscarriage and I have many clients who have gone through so much loss, and I know loss in another way. I know loss of embryos, which I'm happy to share about, and loss of family members, which each each has its own, you know, sense of meaning and loss and but, um, as far as when we uh, it was actually a family member that was like you might want to get some testing done, a family member after we were trying for a little over a year and we were, you know, I was getting older and and my husband was early forties right, or mid forties, no, mid forties Right, so it was just like something that kind of woke me up a little bit.
Speaker 2:I maybe needed to hear that Like, yeah, I kind of was just really naive about it, like, oh, it's, it'll happen, we're just going to keep trying and and then I have a friend that's an OB, an OBGYN, and she was like I have a clinic and a doctor I'd recommend to you. So that was really so helpful and kind of I trusted and this is honestly the way I approach life. I let I allow to be guided for the right supports to show up. And this family friend who I've known for a very long time our dads are good friends, our moms are good friends Like she was like the first, one of the first people that was like here's a clinic, here's a doctor, just like go get some answers. And so that's really key.
Speaker 2:It's like and I would not encourage others to wait longer Just there's no harm in getting testing done and test male partner, female, all of it, just get some answers. Well, I mean even not know. We did not know we had male factor. We didn't wouldn't have known if we kept trying and trying and trying and trying right, like so much as I feel, like on the woman is like why you know we got answers and that was so key in helping us navigate through this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and I love, I love that you said like you got it quickly, like once that idea came, yeah, and I think that's that's a huge thing to pause on, because I think so many women wait men too, but right, like our audience is women so many women wait until things are desperate and dire before they get help or support or even just answers of what's going wrong. Like I think that can be very common in the medical model, whether we're talking physiological things or even like the mental, emotional side. Like I look at so many women and it's like they wait until the boat is sink, like the boat is already almost sunk, everyone's off ship. And then they're like, okay, we need therapy. And it's like what if, what, if?
Speaker 1:Before everything goes to shit, we, we don't just focus on what's gone wrong. We say like what are some answers of? Like what are some things that might be subtly off, what are some things you could get support and help with? And it sounds like you went and got the support and the help to figure out some answers and what you need to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, Medically and what I know. Now, looking back, like I would have looked more into like learning more about my cycle and cycle charting and like those specialists who are so valuable and I I feel like I'm very self-aware and know my body but I wasn't probably like optimizing that to the fullest to really be tracking things. I could have been tracking more. I could have maybe seen a functional medicine practitioner early on, gotten some testing. But like things I did discover also was low thyroid, so I got on a thyroid medication and that's really key.
Speaker 1:That probably helped you in other areas too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, For sure, Right. So there's no harm in doing that and I can tell you countless clients and people I know who like I wish someone had told me. Like, consider freezing eggs, just like getting information, all these things, we wait so long. It's just like if we knew this information earlier. It would just help us feel better, Like okay, I'm jumping off topic, but yeah, freezing eggs is one thing.
Speaker 2:Freezing eggs is one thing, but just like testing, getting like some baseline data, that's really data about yourself and your body, of what's going on is, is so powerful.
Speaker 1:So for you, once you, once you got that medical support, it sounds like there was something you needed that they weren't offering. You went and found for yourself. That's what we were talking about before we jumped on. What did that look like for you and like? What made you know you needed that? Did someone tell you? Was it just like your own? Like this isn't enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, sadly there's not a lot of support in the emotional space on this path your mental health, your emotional health, because the focus is on the medical side.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The focus. The doctors have a specialty in understanding protocols, medications.
Speaker 1:Which it has to be like. That's what they specialize.
Speaker 2:That's why we pay them the big bucks, right Like they are guiding our protocols and sadly I just see such a gap in what clinics can and are offering. As far as here's someone to talk to that has gone through this path, that can guide you with making this path easier, and there's some resources that were given, but not a lot. It wasn't until after I went through two egg retrievals. Okay, so first step is after testing and I learned, you know, we had the male factor, the uterine polyps. I went through an egg retrieval. We got four embryos. So much hope for these four.
Speaker 2:We did genetic testing because we were older and we just wanted to get some answers to see if they're healthy embryos before we move forward. Found out all four were not genetically healthy. I would have likely miscarried with all four of those and it's devastating, it's heartbreaking. You have so much hope for these potentials and to get that news it's like shattering, it's crushing. A lot of grief, a lot of grief and you just feel like, oh my gosh, what was all that for? We have to start again, we have to do another.
Speaker 1:I knew we were going to do another. It's a lot of like shots and appointments and your, your hormones, do crazy things right Like it's a it's. It's an intense process even before yeah.
Speaker 2:Everyone reacts so differently. I didn't react to adversely to the medications. I was more emotional, but I've always been really emotional that's kind of normal but like crying at the simplest things. But I handled the shots Okay, went through another egg retrieval to get three embryos and tested them genetic tested them and one came back healthy and like. So this path is so full of unknown, there's so many setbacks, there's so much uncertainty. So full of unknown, there's so many setbacks, there's so much uncertainty.
Speaker 2:And so for myself, and just to let others know, my background is in holistic wellness, I'm an occupational therapist and so I feel really fortunate. I had some tools. I knew the most important thing I had to do was to take care of myself, to prioritize my self-care and to be an active participant. To prioritize my self-care and to be an active participant I've been in the manifestation principle practices for as long as I can remember and, knowing that I couldn't let just stand by and wait for things to happen, I also had to be a person to actively be involved in this process. And because I was very aware of my thoughts and my mindset and energy, like all those are, I was very intentional about like okay, I'm open, I'm going to be open to how this is going to unfold. This is our path before us to, you know, hopefully, have a child. We have answers.
Speaker 2:And so, going back to your question about what resources were given to me, there was really nothing for the first egg retrieval and then, after we had we were able to, we were trying to get a healthy embryo. They were like, oh, you might want to consider acupuncture, and I think it was like an ultrasound tech person that was like we have some recommendations? Oh, that would be nice to know up front. But I did see an acupuncturist and it was extremely helpful and they have a specialty in seeing someone that is like certified, aborm, certified they, they understand protocols and things, and so helping with blood flow, helping with peace of mind. That was really the only holistic support that was given to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, in the spirit of like knowing I'm going to give it my all and be an active participant, I knew I chose to do some things differently and I chose to be a part of a book club and a sisterhood and that opened up so many doors for me. This was in 2015. And I love these ladies so much, because they were the sisterhood that I didn't know I even needed and you know this, rebecca like the power of community and sisterhood and how we need each other. I didn't really know any other people who were going through fertility challenges.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I knew I didn't want to do this alone. And I knew I didn't want to do this alone and so I was like I'm going to put myself out there and like I've always been a pretty adventurous person and not afraid to meet new people, and it was the best gift because through that, yes, I'm reading these empowering books and, like, surrounded with this energy that was fueling me, have a journaling practice that I've journaled since I was 10 years old, had all these tools and things, but, like this sisterhood, I met a Reiki practitioner through that group. I was getting Reiki and I did a, an art program through one of the women who was looking for individuals to be beta testers for her art program. I write about it in my book and hold on, baby, and I just share these things. Because it's like it took me doing things differently and stepping into this space of like I'm open to receive, these supports were just naturally coming to me.
Speaker 2:I got to hear Brene Brown speak. I was hearing all these people speak and events and opportunities and like this is some of the magic that I really preach and believe in when you open yourself up to these possibilities, like I did experience a beautiful path through IVF. I know that's not the case for everyone, and so you know we can take this wherever you want to go, but I just feel like there was so much magic serendipity that I experienced and it took me saying yes, like I'm open, I'm available.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's interesting I'm noticing myself Like I just my whole body softened when you were talking of just like, and I'm curious if this matches your expression or your experience. I think you know, when I think of IVF and I think of fertility, I think of like this hard, heavy thing where you have to do a lot of things. There's so much in your control and out of your control and there's so much like over and under responsibility. And hearing you share and talk, I was just like what a beautiful permission for women to hear like that you can do hard things in a very soft way. I think there's so many women who are trying to do more to better themselves or to get to this hard thing. And I just heard this like beautiful permission and what you just shared of like what are the right more things.
Speaker 1:Like what are the things that bring you joy and peace and camaraderie. I think community is so under I can't think of the word in the personal growth world. In the personal growth world, there's so much an emphasis on like do this, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do the hard thing. And it sounds like you went in and you were just like who can support me and love on me, who can hold me, who can believe for me, who can? So you didn't have to carry it alone. You gave yourself places where you weren't hyper fixated or hyper focused on this journey. You gave yourself permission to build a beautiful life. Kind of no matter.
Speaker 1:What happened is what I'm hearing is like you went. That's what I'm hearing is like you went on your spot on life of like what are the things I love, what are the things that I enjoy doing? Not out of I have to do this. Not out of like I'm going to check the box of I should do this. It's just like, oh, that would be fun, that would be nourishing, that would be exciting, and I like felt myself soften into this, like what beautiful permission and the season that can. It could still be very heartbreaking and hard, but it sounds like that built a lot of capacity for you.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, you nailed it. Um, this, doing energy. There's such an emphasis on that in the fertility world, where we're doing shots, we're going to ultrasound appointments, we're getting blood draws like every other day, we are monitoring follicles, monitoring uterines, lining all these measurements and things I totally kind of let go of. I really didn't choose to focus on that. That was not something I wanted to focus on, really didn't choose to focus on that. That was not something I wanted to focus on. Like I trusted in this process and my body and I let go of the things that I could not control. So like, yes, there's such a focus on do more, eat the special diet, eat, do these, use these supplements.
Speaker 2:I honestly didn't do really any supplements. I did do a couple things. My acupuncturist recommended with a few things to eat and I followed his uh recommendations to me, like I was doing hot foot soaks, which your womb and your feet are connected. You know learning all of these things that really supported me and you know being having the thyroid issue. My feet are usually cold and my hands are usually cold, so that was a practice I just soaked up. I loved doing this hot butt soaks every night and knowing and making that an intentional practice. So I'm just sharing some specifics with you of things I did, but I really didn't do a lot of crazy restrictions. I reduced caffeine. I was still exercising, not to the point of like heavy, intense workouts, but I was still moving my body.
Speaker 2:And, you're right, I focused on joy. I focused on living my life fully because that is, I wanted to enjoy the path to motherhood Like not make it this grind of like I've got to do more. It can be a miserable process and I'll share this too. Along the way, the loss I was facing and the challenges I was going through outside of fertility was my mom's health was declining, and so this is a lot of what I write about too, because it was such an interesting place to find myself calling in a child, wanting to be a mom so badly and then seeing my own mom's like health decline, yeah, and navigating that duality of life.
Speaker 2:It's this holding on and letting go holding on. I want her to be there. I know I need to let her go holding on to myself as, like idf is this life-changing, freaking ride of your life, and I was gonna like hold on to me and not lose myself through this process, cause it will really change you. If we let it. It will fricking like, it will rob you of your joy, it will suck the life out of you. People stop living, people stop doing things that light them up. And so thank you for like seeing and hearing like what I'm sharing, because it is.
Speaker 2:It requires a softening. It requires us to like, lean in, not to push. Not to push because the more we push, the more resistance we're creating. And it's like so many of the women I support you too, like ambitious women, go-getters, high achievers. Like we go after what we want, we make things happen. And I always say like this fertility path, or IVF, is one you cannot make happen and it requires the exact opposite energy. It requires a totally different way of going about it, softening through it, a new way of being. I really speak about this a lot because it's like this is what is not the focus. It's not like if you're relaxing and that's not looked at as productive, if you're doing self-care, sometimes it's like, oh, that's not productive. Well, heck, yeah it is. You know that. We know when we take time for ourselves and pause, that can be more beneficial than people realize.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just got chills because I've actually thought of this a lot. I really think the process of becoming a mother is such a reflection of the transformation that happens to women when they're mothers and what you were just saying I was like I can't tell you how many times. That's what women have to learn of. You know, I work with a lot of high functioners who are used to if I just follow the right formula, I'll get the right results, and we're very good at it. We're very good at like if I just do this, I'll get this result and fertility, motherhood, pregnancy.
Speaker 1:It brings us back to the reality of nature of yes, there are things within your control, yes, there are things that you can do, but part of this is out of your hands, part of this like, it doesn't matter how perfectly you do it and that's not a.
Speaker 1:That's a terrifying thing for you when you're used to control, equaling safety, but it's also an invitation of like it you had, you had the perception of control and I think a lot of women, especially high functioners, they double down when things get hard, when things get stressful, when something's going wrong.
Speaker 1:So I can only imagine in the IVF process like oh, it's within my control, I have to do this, and one of the things I heard in your story is trusting the people you brought on your team. Trusting them to see what you couldn't see, not in a disempowering way where you told them like you gave away your authority, but in a way of like this is something that you are skilled at. I'm going to trust you to tell me what's enough, because I think for so many women, nothing feels good enough to themselves of like their diet or their supplements or their movement, and that's when self-care becomes this way that we punish ourselves or say like, did I do good enough? Did I do enough? And it's like we're robbing ourselves of the joy and the richness of life that's going to build our capacity when we make it something we should do or we have to do, versus like how does this feel in my body?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you hit on so many good points. I want people to like who they are in pursuit of motherhood, wow, yeah. And a lot of women think, oh, when this works when I'm pregnant, then I'll be fulfilled or happy or when. But let's flip that, let's enjoy the process. It's our embryos are these little clusters of cells, these little balls of light, these little potentials.
Speaker 2:And I was writing letters to our little one before. I didn't know it was a girl at the time, before she was here, I was writing to our little one and I think these practices, these more spiritual practices, they're just so key in helping us connect, keeping that hope alive with what's to come. I held a mantra always expect something wonderful to happen. I was focusing on good things coming my way. I was not focused on the minute details of every part of this process, which I see many focus on the numbers, the lab results. They're important for sure, but it's like how are we showing up to these appointments?
Speaker 2:And what is something that I just don't want to give any more energy or attention to, that doesn't need to be there, like I want to give my love to this future little, this embryo holding on for me. That's my book. I'm like hold on, baby, hold on on for me, that's my book. I'm like hold on, baby, hold on, I'm holding, I'm coming for you and I'm holding on to me first before you're here. Like I am, I wanted to create this warm, nurturing space in my womb.
Speaker 2:I was lucky to carry and I could only carry our one. We had one embryo and then, you know, there were some complications later that I I won't be able to carry another and I'm okay with that. She was our one. But just to experience that, to be able to have that gift, you know it, it's like I wanted to create this experience of calling my baby in. Yeah, so I hear you, there's a lot of the pushing and the do more, but I truly believe this path requires us to navigate it in a more soulful way and that's, you know, with my podcast and everything.
Speaker 1:It's like these are the conversations I love to have, because this isn't the focus right, yeah, the emotional, mental, experiential side, everything that's happening energetically behind the scenes, that truly does shift the way that things happen. I think a lot of times we're playing whack-a-mole with symptoms. We're playing this game of like if I just get the right behaviors, and it's like, well, what's what's guiding the behaviors? What's guiding either the stuckness or the flow in your life? And you know something I want to touch on I hear no toxic positivity of like everything's going to be magical and easy. And I love you use that word connection. And I think that's so key Because, you know, I think in motherhood one of the reasons why I started my business and what made me so passionate about the way I do what I do, is that, like me so passionate about the way I do what I do, is that, like I refuse to brush my humanity and my messy reality underneath the rug of good and grateful Like that doesn't serve anybody, that doesn't help anybody for me to pretend that everything's fine when it's not fine.
Speaker 1:And I also refuse to go through this season hating everything and just being negative and a victim. And it's like I felt like I had to choose one of those camps. I either had to be this hot mess mom who hated life, and that was like the funny joke. It was like somehow cool to not give a shit, or I had to be this like really perfect, like everything's magical, and I really truly struggled of feeling like I needed to choose a camp. And then I was over here like I care way too much about this. I give so many shits about motherhood, like not only my kids' experience of me, so like the role of parent, but also like my experience of motherhood, who I am, how it feels, how I'll look back at this season of my life, and I was just like, wait, isn't there, like this third option. So I'm curious if you can speak to that with your experience, or like what you see with clients.
Speaker 2:Good question. This is so good. You hit on something that's so key and it's choice. We have a choice and I appreciate how you share about all of the messy parts of this path and sometimes we think we got to choose one way or this way. I feel you on that.
Speaker 2:I chose to ride the wave. That's like as simply as I can put it, yeah, choosing that. Yes, the wave is going to come, with the ups and the downs, and that's really key in the surrendering part of this process. Yeah, really key in the surrendering part of this process. Yeah, so choice is a very empowering place to be, to choose I'm going to be open, I'm going to have fun, I'm going to live my life, I'm going to surround myself with people who light me up. That's. Those are all choices, those are all within our control. Right, choosing even your doctor and your clinic. If you don't feel like they resonate with you, choose another one, choose a second opinion, choose outside resources, choose something that really resonates with your heart.
Speaker 2:You know, and this process is so costly, it's expensive. A round of IDF can be 20K and clients have had to come to me with multiple, multiple rounds and sometimes they're like they've tried it all. And this is like a new approach, like, okay, I'm ready to do things differently. I just believe, like we invest so much in this process, we really we deserve to invest in ourself too. Yeah, with what you offer, with what I offer, it's, it's really priceless, it's invaluable. It's these intangible things that, like we're putting so much into this, that, like I say, the shots and the medications and all of it 5k for this, 300 for this test, 500 for this test, and all of it 5k for this, 300 for this test, 500 for this test, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah All these.
Speaker 2:But like, what about nurturing us and our soul? Like we sacrifice a lot, we sacrifice, but we don't deserve we don't get to sacrifice our soul. That's something I just will stand on forever. It's like holding onto ourselves through this. It's the most important thing. So, choice, choice and we get to define how we're going to go about this. No one else is going to decide that for you.
Speaker 2:You get to write the narrative. You get to write turn the page. Yeah, we all have shitty days. It's hard. I was going through grief multiple times, many times going through this, finding out our four embryos were unhealthy, holding on for one. You know wanting one and not even knowing like. It took ultimate faith and trust that this one would hold on for us and work. I leaned on friends to help guide me. I leaned on to faith, I leaned into my practices and at some point you kind of like throw up your hands. You're like, and at some point you kind of like throw up your hands, you're like I've done it all, there's nothing more I can do other than show up and be this energy, this open vessel, really, yeah.
Speaker 1:Something you just said is so powerful of you, let it be good enough. And I think there's so many women who are so driven by shame and it's shame because and we know it's shame when it's never good enough, even when it's working, even even when you're doing what you said you would do. And women, I think, get really confused between self responsibility, right, your ability to respond, which is what you're talking about, which is noticing this is good enough and I'm going to let what I did be good enough. And that's going to look different on a Tuesday than a Thursday. That's going to look different on one week to the next, especially when you're grieving, especially when you're going through something like fertility or IVF. That is like you said, like those waves of there's going to be ups and there's going to be downs, but letting that just be part of the human process and not making your humanity a problem. Because I think women think that consistency and self-responsibility is going to look like I think of 75 hard and listen, I am not coming down on 75 hard. I love it for women that like it's great if you want to do that, but there's so many people who think that, like, if I can't commit to that, what's the point? Or they hold themselves to the like I have to be on 75 all the time, and then they hit a season where they can't do that anymore and they make it mean that they're a failure, instead of like I'm at a low part of the wave, not a high part of the wave. So just, I love what you said about like letting it be good enough, because I think so many women think if I just have to keep chasing this too high bar and they hate it when I tell them this. But I'm like if you just lower the bar until you can reach it and then, once you reach it, you can start putting the bar back up higher.
Speaker 1:But I was like as long as you feel like a failure, as long as you feel like a piece of shit, you're going to show up like that Because you're going to feel like nothing you do is good enough. And when people feel that way, we don't show up. Well, I think women can be so hard on themselves of feeling like all of it is their control and you're sharing about how you took agency, how you had choice, how you showed up. But also it wasn't all on you, it was community and faith and things outside of you. Even I think of practices. I really think of practices as me leaning into something that's not me, whether that's a wall or a pillow or the floor or gravity, like it sounds so weird, I think, for a lot of my clients at first when, like, we start doing some like woo, woo, somatic stuff, but I'm like there's a whole world of energy surrounding you. It doesn't all have to be you.
Speaker 2:Totally. You talked about expanding like what I believe is expanding our capacity to handle more, and I think, drawing from my occupational therapy background, it's like there's these imagine like with this wave, right the high point, the low point, and there's that middle, like range, where how can we kind of just stay in the range and not let ourselves be too consumed with the high, the extreme highs and lows. It's finding that place of how do I say this? It's like the skillset that requires a lot of self-awareness to know ourselves for what's going to help me ground me more, what's going to help me enhance my energy, right All of these things, and we're in the low or the high to find that sort of middle ground so we really have tools to ride the wave better. I mean, that's exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 2:It's building our capacity to know, and you know what you and I both do I think is so key to mention. It's like these are skills that are gonna help you through life. It's not just what I do, helping women through a fertility path. It's gonna help them be better moms. It's gonna help them just in their everyday, like life challenges. The challenges never stop, yeah, and that word skill is so important.
Speaker 1:I still utilize all these practices. Yeah, that word skill is so important because it's something you can learn, and I say that as someone who used to be massively dysregulated. I mean like CPTSD. I mean like I was having fits when my toddler was having fits. I mean like I had so much going on mentally, emotionally, and it wasn't that there was something wrong with me, it's that I didn't have skills to hold it. And motherhood asks a lot of you.
Speaker 2:Fertility asks a lot of you.
Speaker 1:Grief asks a lot of you and a lot of women come into it, even having been professional and successful in other areas of life. They then come into this season and they're like what the hell, my skills aren't cutting it here. And it's like, well, yeah, this is like intense life leadership on little to no sleep, like this is no joke. You're working with an emotionally erratic toddler or six-year-old or teenager. Like this takes skills and those are skills that you can learn and build and I love I've been working in. It's called alchemical alignment my coach uses it, but I'm also doing some trainings with them right now.
Speaker 1:And the way that they talk about that window of regulation. They talk about low health, medium health and high health. So like within that range, like what up regulates you in a healthy way. So like am I really really high and do I need something that like brings me down a little bit? Like there's there's a whole range of health of when I'm down here low, what does that look like?
Speaker 1:Because sometimes self-care might be doing something really slow and easy and feel good. But also if I'm high energy and I'm feeling dynamic, high health and self-care is going to look way different up here. Or if, let's say, I'm experiencing rage and anger and frustration, that's going to require something different of me than if I'm feeling grief. Those need two different types of self-care because of where my energy is going.
Speaker 1:And I think we freak out with regulation because we think it means being calm and even and having this very consistent mood and it's like no, you're human, you're supposed to have a wide range of experiences and emotions. It's just that no one ever taught you the skills of how to move through those emotions. No one taught you the skills of how to handle high and low human experiences without leaving health. A lot of women had parents who, if they were up here on the high level of dysregulation, they took it out on their kids or they shut down or they had unhealthy behaviors, and so when we feel that in ourselves, we get terrified. When it's like, oh no, this is okay, you just have to learn how to be with it and move through it.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize what a gift it was to be an OT to understand these concepts. We talk about arousal level, their arousal levels, basically high arousal, low arousal. So, and I work with kids too. I've done OT with kids, adults, and so, yes, it is finding these tools. And what's so cool too is like teaching my daughter these these skills.
Speaker 2:You know she understands the importance of a breath. Or we, we in the car, she needs to scream it out, I will cover my ears, I give her. I say okay, give me the warning. She goes. She'll say mom, I need to scream and I cover my ears and she screams. Talk about opening your throat chakra, she needs to let it. Oh, she has no trouble doing that. Or at home, like, punch the fricking pillow, like we physically need to release out, and I teach her she can scream into a pillow, she can punch the pillow. You know all these ways to calm through. She's got her own little essential oils for kids. She has her stuff to pull and stretch because heavy muscle work, calming to the nervous system, joint compress, all these things. She has her trampoline. It's like funny how we can adapt and utilize all these skills and tools as adults. Like play, go out and play. Last night I went roller skating with her.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I love roller skating, went to Skate City.
Speaker 2:I had not been to Skate City in frigging forever. Talk about like, bring back your childhood. But like these things, movement, vestibular. I will get on the swings with her at school, like after school. She goes to playground every day and I know we're kind of moving to another topic, but it's like this is so important because we forget to play. We forget that movement is nourishment for the nervous system.
Speaker 2:Music Think about all of your senses. Auditory Music is calming. We sometimes want uppity music or we want to bring it down and have the soothing music Things for the mouth. There's sometimes I want to suck on something. There's times I want crunchy food.
Speaker 2:Okay, so now we're going into the whole OT thing. But it's like this is so key because it starts with us and it starts with us knowing what we need to feed our nervous system and to help us, and that's window of tolerance, expanding our capacity to handle more. So I mean you and I could talk forever about this, because it's it's you know, it's important that individuals just be open, and maybe this is the first time you're hearing kind of this conversation, but I think it's more. People are talking about self-regulation and nervous system work and you do somatic work, as do I. This is so key, right Through tapping through bagel, calming the nervous system. There's so much and I think what's key and just sharing too is like simplifying. There's a lot out there, but there it can be very simple. It doesn't require. I've taught my clients like how to calm themselves within a minute. It's just simple, simple things to really help you get more grounded safe within your body. I think safety is like very overlooked. I think safety is like very overlooked. I think it's.
Speaker 1:I think it's perfect that we went in this direction, actually because I haven't experienced infertility and I haven't experienced IVF. But when I think of, when I think of women in that position and women I've worked with. One of the very common themes I see in women that I don't think is from motherhood. I think motherhood brings it out and I can only imagine this is a part of it is that you become not you, you become a body, you become this being of servitude where you are only thinking about what you have to do for this other thing, and I'm thinking about women going through this fertility journey of if you're only focused on the medical side, versus like you are a human being who needs things. You need things and not meeting those needs has consequences. It's like in motherhood.
Speaker 1:You know, a huge common thing is I don't feel like myself anymore, I don't feel like me and it's like. No. Women literally mean they don't feel themselves Like it's. It's not logical, it's not mental, it's not it's. They literally don't feel their physiological, human body anymore. And this is why so many women are like I don't know how to take care of myself, I don't know what, and they're doing all of these quote, unquote, self-care things, but none of them feel good because there's a disconnection with their human body. There's a disconnection of I am a human, I am matter, I matter, I have needs, which are basic human needs that I think most women, if they're looking at a child, could say oh, that kid's jumping around, that kid needs some input, right.
Speaker 1:Like we can see it in kids. We can say like, oh, that baby is throwing a fit in Walmart. It's because that baby needs a nap, that baby needs a lunch, that baby needs someone paying attention to them, right. And it's like, obviously, like we can't avoid all fits. I'm not saying we can like somehow create an environment where kids are perfect, but I think women are convinced that if they just hit the certain level of doing hard enough, they won't need anything.
Speaker 1:And it's like what a beautiful thing that you're teaching women this on their journey to, hopefully, motherhood, right. Like I hope they get that experience. And even if they don't, what matters most is that like they matter, like the only things that matter about motherhood are that you matter and that baby matter. And so if there's no, if there's no baby, you matter just as much. You matter as a person, as a human in your neediness, the music you like, the things you like to eat, like those simple things you were sharing about. We underestimate how much we still need those things and our culture is very disconnected from that.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh gosh, rebecca, everything you're saying is so right on. Everything you're saying is so right on it's. I'm thinking about a client who just had an unsuccessful transfer with her last embryo, her only embryo. And what she shared with me, which touched me greatly, was her saying I helped her keep that magic alive in a very clinical process. I helped her keep that magic alive in a very clinical process and by that you know we were working on these different, all these practices and holistic kind of teachings and and her really stepping into a space of like, trusting and and the signs and and she was still whole, though, even though it didn't work out, she still existed. It makes me emotional because she gave it her all, she really did it all and she, she shared with me. I don't have any regrets. I really did everything I could and I met. I met a point and of course you know she's grieving and it's just um, you know she doesn't know what the future is going to look like, but it's, she's okay and that's what I feel like I want all women, whether you have a baby or not, like the goal is to not really lose you through this and she feels still really connected to herself, like that is the best gift. I mean I wish I could guarantee babies, yeah, this is going to work. I can't, you know we can't do that, um, but I really can guarantee like you're not going to lose yourself, your light, your spirit, like she gave it her all. Yeah, and it's just like it's hard. It's a heartbreaking path, cause none of us have the answer to knowing will this work out.
Speaker 2:There are so many different paths to parenthood. Ivf is one and for some, after treatment, they want to stop. And there's women and I know in communities of women who created supports around that You've stopped fertility treatment and you're okay, your chapter is complete. Or there's others who do go explore other ways surrogacy, adoption, all things. I just believe in this so strongly that holding onto you and not letting yourself be consumed, overtaken by this process, like we're powerful women and we've often forgotten, like this strength within us.
Speaker 2:And this path takes so much courage, it takes so much the words I don't even have all the words because financially it's costly. You invest so much emotionally, mentally, physically. Your body goes through it the bruising, the shots, the needles. People don't probably realize the size of the needle for progesterone. It is a thick ass needle and you do that in your butt every, every day. You're doing it and I you alternate your butt cheeks. I mean you are putting yourself through it. I did all my own shots. A lot of people you know sometimes their partners help it was empowering for me to do it. You know we're bad asses like going through this path.
Speaker 2:I really believe it and this whole fertility experience that I went through. It has become a superpower, one that I didn't even know that. What if we look at it that way? Like I'm living life fully. I'm a badass. I am. Yes, they're hard days, don't get me wrong. I mean I cried, I was so emotional, like this path and the setbacks, and I didn't even really share all that.
Speaker 2:But like I had polyps, I knew that we had some polyps in my uterus. I had to have surgery for that and then three months later they found out I had scar tissue. So I had to heal another three months and then I was getting ready for how did that go down? I had scar tissue surgery. Then I my first doctor left the practice, left in limbo. I was getting ready for a transfer. My transfer got canceled because they found some blood in my uterus right before our embryo transfer. They transferred a little embryo into me, canceled that a new doctor. He found I had fibroids and then I had fibroid surgery.
Speaker 2:I mean literally the span of a year and that can be relatively short. There are women I know who go through years and years and years. So over that whole course of the year it's like all these practices are things I was doing doing the book club, doing my Reiki, doing my journaling practice, all these somatic things and feeling good, like, okay, a setback, this is a redirection, it's meant to be, this is guiding me down the path. That is the approach I took. So I just share all this because it's like this is not a straightforward path and when you learn these tools and practices and you're surrounded in sisterhood like this is what we need more of. We need more of this kind of community and being held, as you mentioned in the very beginning of this, it's like allow yourself to be held, you don't have to do this on your own. So that's just a little bit of the backstory too, because it's like, yeah, there was a whole year of waiting and setbacks and preparing for the one transfer and after I was cleared from those fibroids.
Speaker 2:They transferred our one and she took, and actually her transfer date is January 19th. I don't know when you're going to release this, but we're talking right around this time and it's like we call it her dot day. She starts as a little dot, her little, just a little dot, a little, you know, magical ball of light, I call it. And so her dot day is coming up and it's like forever, the most transformative thing I will ever go through I mean, I'm sure there are many more, but one of the like biggest, most magical experiences of my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's. It's such an all consuming season, it sounds like, which reflects motherhood, right Like it. I think everyone goes through things that are all consuming Fertility relationships can be all consuming, I think of. Like grief, or women who work through addiction, like there can be so many different things that can feel all-consuming. And learning how to exist outside of that all-consuming thing, understanding how much of you is still there, that you exist, that there's a part of you that is still existentially you, even if it shifts or changes or develops. And I think this is such a season that asks so much of you. And understanding that like that can be such a beautiful invitation.
Speaker 1:It doesn't necessarily have to be something terrible and that doesn't mean every day is going to be magical. It means that you are able to find the magic in the mess, that you find your feet, that you stay present, and one of the things that I keep hearing you say is this connection. You stayed connected to yourself and you stayed where your feet were, and that can be really hard to do when you're working so hard for this thing that you want so badly, like just the thing that so many women want more than you know. I've heard when. Like the thing that you want more than anything.
Speaker 1:I know that's how I was with motherhood and my experience was I got here and I was like wait, this doesn't feel how I thought it would here, because it wasn't about my location, it was about my connection, it was about being where my feet were, it was about the way that I was seeing and feeling and experiencing my life, and I really hear you sharing that story and I think it's going to be such a beautiful permission for women and such a new. It's like that third option of like either miserable or everything, or I have to pretend like everything's perfect versus like all of it's happening. Life is just still lifing, but here I am, in the midst of it, and what am I going to do and respond and how do I look outside myself? For that support too.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you sharing that and taking the pressure off. That's what we get to do. I love the word invitation that you shared a few times. It's an invitation. How do we want to step into this beautiful path? It's one of the most incredible experiences to get to be a mother and how do we want to walk forward in this uncertainty? Life is uncertain. Life is full of uncertainty. Ivf is full of uncertainty the unknown, everything right. Yeah, it is a choosing and that's an empowering place to get to write. We are co-creators of our story. Yeah, I love this conversation so good. I know. Yes, great question. Yes, great question.
Speaker 1:I just I'm just sitting here like, oh, there's so much more, but this feels what you just said of like this is your story. I feel like that's just a beautiful place to end on and I even think of I'm a big reader and I loved Harry Potter. I love the Harry Potter books and I remember I wish I could think of who it was but they were teaching on the hero's journey and the heroine's journey and they were talking about, like if you stopped halfway through reading Harry Potter or you stopped at one book, or if you think of like the character development that they go through and you realize that your life is a story. Like there are going to be chapters or moments where you think this, it couldn't possibly get any better. And then there's going to be moments where you think it couldn't possibly get any worse, where you think it couldn't possibly get any worse.
Speaker 1:But what happens when you see yourself as a main character and there's lots of other characters? That doesn't mean that you're self-involved, but you realize that, like, this is your life, this is your invitation, right here and now. What does this chapter look like? Because you don't know what's going to happen. Five chapters down the road because you're still right here, but what does it mean? To just be right here and be in your story is just what I'm thinking of when you shared that. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what chapter do we want to write right? How do we want to turn a new page? And these conversations like what we're doing right now, like I'm so grateful because if it weren't for this fertility struggle that we went through through IVF, I would never have stepped into working as a coach to writing a book, a podcast Like this is a dream, you know, and this is really where the heart of, like, the heartbeat of life, I'm just, I, just I'm so thankful that we're here having this, because you and I have such a deep passion for motherhood, for for appreciating the journey and helping individuals. You know, we don't have it all figured out. We're just a few, maybe, steps ahead. Right, we're just, we've just learned some things that have helped us.
Speaker 2:We're here to help others and teach what we've learned and, like help make this experience a little bit easier, more, more enjoyable. You know, bringing it back home, like I love, how you said, staying connected, um, keeping your feet where you are right, like coming home to ourselves, like we're creating these spaces that are so uh what's the word, rebecca? Like it's, they're, they are these magical spaces that it's hard to hard to describe. So I'm just thankful for this conversation because I hopefully we're, hopefully we're helping a lot of individuals who are in this, this waiting, the season of waiting or this struggle, and just maybe looking at it with a new set of eyes and a new lens.
Speaker 1:I think it's amazing when we get to be in spaces and conversations where our hard humanity is still allowed to be expressed but it's hope-filled. I think that's very unique conversation and connection and time to not just talk about what we're doing and our behaviors but how it all feels, how it looks, how we're making those decisions, where it's not just like advice giving, it's true human connection and I think so many women crave that. So I just I love this conversation and I'm so grateful for you coming If this podcast episode resonated. I'm so grateful for you coming. If this podcast episode resonated me and Lisa would love to hear from you. Send us a DM, let us know you listened If you want to share it. We would appreciate that so much. But I know both Lisa and I we love that like real connection. We want to hear from you. Lisa has a book. She has a wonderful podcast. Is there anywhere else that people can find you?
Speaker 2:YouTube. I have a wonderful podcast. Is there anywhere else that people can find you YouTube? I have a YouTube channel, so my website's IVFmanifestingamiraclecom and then Hold On Babies on Amazon, soulful IVF Podcast on iTunes and Spotify. And, yeah, connect, say hi. I love hearing from individuals. Yeah, Awesome.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for being here, lisa. Thank you so much for being here, lisa. Thank you. Thanks for joining me on today's episode of the Motherhood Mentor Podcast. Make sure you have subscribed below so that you see all of the upcoming podcasts that are coming soon. I hope you take today's episode and you take one aha moment, one small, tangible piece of work that you can bring into your life, to get your hands a little dirty, to get your skin in the game. Don't forget to take up audacious space in your life. If this podcast moved you, if it inspired you, if it encouraged you, please do me a favor and leave a review, send an episode to a friend. This helps the show gain more traction. It helps us to support more moms, more women, and that's what we're doing here. So I hope you have an awesome day, take really good care of yourself and I'll see you next time.
