Always Postpartum: How Motherhood Permanently Transforms Your Life a raw look at how motherhood shapes us with Laura McHugh

The journey through postpartum is often portrayed in sanitized, picture-perfect images that fail to capture the raw, messy reality that so many mothers experience. In this deeply honest conversation between Becca and Laura McHugh, we explore what it truly means to navigate the fog of early motherhood and beyond, revealing truths that are rarely discussed but universally experienced. Have you ever wanted or needed to burn down your life or business after having a baby? Or seriously questioned if you should? Or maybe pre-baby you insisted that motherhood wouldn't change you, but then it DID? 

Motherhood strips away our control and transforms us in ways we never expected, often leaving us feeling lost until we learn to embrace the fog and trust ourselves through the journey.

• Laura McHugh, a pediatric and NICU nurse turned entrepreneur, shares how her first postpartum experience crashed her expectations and business

• The identity crisis of motherhood hits especially hard for high-functioning women used to "hacking" life through control

• Sleep deprivation impacts mental and emotional health more than most new mothers realize

• Learning to embrace motherhood as transformation rather than loss

• Postpartum mental health often goes undiagnosed, with current screening methods catching only a fraction of struggling mothers

• Laura's second postpartum experience felt healing because she had more support and a different mindset

• Our culture's high standards for mothering create anxiety where grace is needed

• Coming back to trusting yourself is the most revolutionary act in a world of expert noise

• Different seasons of motherhood require different paces and expectations

• Finding small intentional actions that help you feel like yourself in the midst of chaos

Don't forget to take up audacious space in your life. If this podcast moved you, if it inspired you, if it encouraged you, please do me a favor and leave a review, send an episode to a friend.

About Laura: 

Laura McHugh is a mom of two, a certified lactation counselor, and a postpartum nurse navigator. She has taken her years of experience as a pediatric and NICU nurse and women’s burnout expert to build her new company, Holding Mom Postpartum.

Find Laura:

Instagram 

3rd Trimester Checklist

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Motherhood Mentor Podcast
• 0:43 Meeting Laura McHugh
• 2:52 Unexpected First Postpartum Experience
• 8:13 Control vs. Chaos in Motherhood
• 17:22 Birth of Postpartum Nurse Navigation
• 27:09 Mental Health in Postpartum Period
• 34:39 Transitioning Through Different Postpartum Seasons
• 43:57 Learning to Trust Yourself
• 53:33 Motherhood and Business Connection
• 1:01:32 Outro and Call to Action

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome to the Motherhood Mentor Podcast. I'm Becca, a somatic healing practitioner and a holistic life coach for moms, and this podcast is for you. You can expect honest conversations and incredible guests that speak to health, healing and growth in every area of our lives. This isn't just strategy for what we do. It's support for who we are. I believe we can be wildly ambitious while still holding all of our soft and hard humanity as holy. I love combining deep inner healing with strategic systems and no-nonsense talk about what this season is really like. So grab whatever weird health beverage you're currently into and let's get into it.

Speaker 1: 0:43

Welcome to today's episode of the Motherhood Mentor Podcast. I have a really fun guest with me, laura, and she is one of my friends I made in a mastermind and I'm so excited to have her here today because we follow each other and get to stay connected just a little bit on Instagram, but that's not the same as getting to have a good long conversation. So, laura, will you introduce yourself, and today we're going to talk about postpartum and like the long postpartum journey, what it actually feels like and looks like and, I'm sure, many other things. So will you introduce yourself, laura?

Speaker 2: 1:17

Of course. Thank you so much for having me. I feel like we have talked about doing this for about a year now and it's finally happening, so I'm really excited. But my name is Laura McHugh. I am a nurse by trade in pediatrics and the NICU, but have been an entrepreneur since 2018, kind of all over the place. I live in Delaware. I have two little girls. I have a three and a half year old and an 11 month old. I have two little girls I have a three and a half year old and I'm 11 month old and I just am extremely and always have been passionate about helping women through their lives, and that's just evolved over the last couple of years as I've evolved. But now I feel like it's so much more deeply impact driven, just based on what I've been through and what I've seen my fellow moms go through. And yeah, I don't like small talk, I like deep connected. You know walks on the beach and you know fun for me is reading a book or like doing personal growth work. So that's kind of me.

Speaker 1: 2:26

Which is why I love you so much. I love it as soon as someone's like I hate small talk, I'm like we're going to get along great. Like where do we start? Like let's dive in, I'm so curious. So at first in your entrepreneurship journey you were doing a lot of work with nurses and now you're moving more towards like postpartum and helping moms prepare for that. I'm curious what your postpartum journey was and if that was part of that evolution for you.

Speaker 2: 2:52

Yeah. So if you had asked me during my first postpartum I would have said, heck, no, I would never work with moms. And that's actually when I met you. I was pregnant with my first. So I was only about like I had joined ashes mastermind because I knew that I wanted to get pregnant soon. And then I signed up and, I kid you not, I found out like two weeks later that I was pregnant and, um, I met you in person when I was about 14 weeks pregnant and I was so determined at the time that my life wasn't going to change.

Speaker 2: 3:29

My business was on the up and up, like I was seeing so much success. I was full time in it. I was working solely with burnt out nurses, and then nurses who also wanted to lead in some capacity, and I, I mean, I was like fully booked and busy. It was such a crazy time because I was growing this human, but like pretending I wasn't, and then also just like thriving during COVID and building this business. And I remember specifically asking you guys in the mastermind, maybe like a month or so before I was supposed to give birth, and I said you know what, what should I like prepare for? Like what should I know, like I feel like I'm going to be good Cause I'm like a pediatric nurse, no big deal, and everyone was like Laura, you just really won't know until you're in it. I was like, no, but I'm going to be fine, like don't, like I'm really not worried about it. And then I got rocked. I feel like no matter what any of you could have said to me because you were all moms already would have prepared me.

Speaker 2: 4:32

And I had like an unexpected NICU stay with my first which, as a pediatric ICU nurse, like that just killed me. Because I was like wait a second. Because of course, I was going down the rabbit hole of like why is this happening? My pregnancy was perfect, my delivery was perfect, is she okay? Does there something underlying? And that kind of really set off my journey with postpartum anxiety, which I didn't realize I had until after the fact, which I didn't realize I had until after the fact, and so that, coupled with my husband at the time, was we're still married. At the time he was traveling it sounds like we got divorced At the time. He was traveling for work up to five nights a week.

Speaker 2: 5:20

So I was solo parenting down in Virginia, which is hours away from my family so I had no support around me. I was extremely anxious. My baby was not a napper, so like my initial plan of like, oh, I'll work during her nap times, that was impossible. She hated sleep at night and I just everything kind of went to shit. Like all of my preconceived notions of motherhood and business just went down the drain, and it took me until getting pregnant with my second to really kind of come to terms with everything that happened and then really start to embrace motherhood itself. It was crazy Like I shut down my first business. I lost so much money Like it was just the identity shift itself of going into motherhood Like I could have never expected that. So yeah, it was really really tough and my second pregnancy and postpartum was really healing and that's kind of how I've gotten to this place now of wanting to work solely with postpartum was really healing and that's kind of how I've gotten to this place now of wanting to work solely with postpartum women.

Speaker 1: 6:28

Yeah, oh, that that identity shift is such a big one. And do you remember what I told you on that call? Because I actually remember what I told you, because I kind of got a little bit of like Becca, you don't say that to women. I was like no, why not?

Speaker 2: 6:43

I remember you being, I think, the most honest.

Speaker 1: 6:46

I can't imagine like I can't, but it somewhat feels like you get hit by a bus and you can't possibly prepare for how much this is going to change and blow up everything and you're going to be okay. It's. It's going to feel like you're not going to be okay, but you're going to be okay eventually. But it might. It might rock you.

Speaker 1: 7:04

And I remember like some people were like that's encouraging and it's so hard, because I've always been someone who it's like I don't want to be the like oh, just wait, it's going to be miserable. But I also think like I had very, very rough postpartums and I think the only reason I was okay is because someone told me that it was okay that it was going to be so rough, like I knew that it wasn't just me and I knew that it was going to get better. Because I saw these women who had gone through that, who told me it destroyed me and I thought I would never feel like myself again, but I do. And so when it happened to me, it felt positive for me to be like it's going to be okay, like eventually.

Speaker 2: 7:51

Well, I wish. So I remember it now that you say it. But the only thing my like, I think I blocked you out because I was like no, I'm going to do fine. Like, what do you mean? Like I am mentally strong. Like I've done this before, I like take care of babies for a living, like. But I wish that I had taken that with me, because then I would have not had those thoughts of like oh my God, am I doing this wrong? Is something wrong with me? Like, am I being selfish? Like, am I a bad mom? Am I being selfish? Like, am I a bad mom? And I feel like, you know, pregnant me shouldn't have blocked that out, but it was probably like a, you know, self preserving.

Speaker 1: 8:33

Even if you would have taken it in. It's one thing to know it, it's another thing to experience it and I think, I think, I think motherhood is such a potent I mean it just it rips away all of it so much capacity that you have as a person. You're put under so much pressure, you are being pulled on and pushed in on every level of being, on every level of identity. I mean we're talking hormones, biologically, physiologically, relationally, environmentally, like your sleep, like every your emotions, your marriage, your family structure, like everything. Yeah and yeah go ahead.

Speaker 2: 9:16

I was just going to say, like, for me it was just so tough because I was so used to being in control, like in control of my energy, like I had, like I was a burnout coach like and a nurse, so like I was so used to being like, oh, as long as I get my sleep and my sunshine and my movement and my nutrition and all of those things in, like, I'll be good.

Speaker 2: 9:39

And then this little like thing comes into the world and your body's not your own, your hormones aren't your own, your emotions and like I'm also not a very emotional person. So feeling these like uncontrollable, like mood swings sometimes, whether it was from the sleep deprivation or the postpartum hormones shifting or then weaning hormones, like getting my cycle back for the first time, these were all things I had absolutely no control over, no matter how much I tried to hack them. And that was, I think, one of the hardest things because I couldn't control it and I couldn't control the baby's sleep, Like I couldn't do any of those things and that was, that was like a big wake up call for me and still is one of, like, the most frustrating things is like now I can recognize it, be like oh, these are hormone shifts happening, I know that, but you still can't do much about it.

Speaker 1: 10:31

Especially that control part and especially that hacking, I just resonate so much. I feel like I spent 10 years in the healing world creating these coping mechanisms and all of this resource and capacity and it's so interesting. The last like two years of my life has been so much of there's so much outside of my control and learning to literally have peace with it Not like I'm going to control everything else so hyper that I'm okay with this little piece. It's just like how can I be okay with this messy humanity and still stay in personal responsibility, still stay in life leadership? But I do think that's so hard for so many women of finding that balance and I I hate when people use in that season because there's so much that it's like doesn't matter how hard you try, like some things are outside of your control, even when you're doing a really good job.

Speaker 2: 11:26

Yeah, and it was so frustrating because it was also the time I feel, like on the internet, where it was very much of like if you aren't succeeding in business or in your health, it's because you're not trying hard enough or you're making excuses or you're not investing enough. So I'm like down this rabbit hole, like, oh my God, it's me Like, why can I not make this work? Yes, Like it was like you have to embody like the person that you want to be. I'm like I'm trying to embody, like I'm pulling cards hours a day and trying to meditate and like do all these things and it's not working. And it took me a really like honestly, till probably a couple months ago where I was like, oh, it just wasn't meant to work anymore. That season was not matched up with what I was trying to do. I was just trying to force it, but I couldn't see that at the time.

Speaker 1: 12:18

Yeah, Well, there's a lot of, so much of the personal development world, especially like what you see online. It's all this like like David Goggins, grit, like I will just will be a way that I can make this happen, and it's all on me to like force and I think there's some health to that. But I think we're forgetting like there's also health and especially like when you're a high functioner, when you know how to function highly, I don't need someone to tell me how to grit my teeth and bear it and work harder. I know how to do that. I needed to learn how to know when to quit. I needed to know when to take the easy way out, how to have some grace with myself, how to have slow energy and rest and like nurturing.

Speaker 1: 13:06

That wasn't all me. Recently I was talking to a friend and I was like it feels like I'm pushing a boulder up a hill and I was talking about this thing that I was trying to do in my business and she was like what, if you just like let the boulder roll down the hill, and I like felt this giant relief in my chest and I was like that never occurred to me. Like that like my, I was just like I've got to get this boulder up the hill and I think I I'm. I'm curious. You said your second postpartum was different. Yeah, I'm curious, like if there was something that changed and how you showed up. Was it just age? Was it just like you know, different babies, different pregnancies, different body, what do you think? I'm curious. What was different?

Speaker 2: 13:52

and if you think there's anything to it. I think it was. A lot of things were different going into this pregnancy, one of them being that we made the relocation from Virginia to Delaware. When my first was about 11 months old, my husband and I had this conversation where I was like if we stay here, we will not have more kids, like I cannot do it and like we wanted more kids. I was like we have no support. I have no, there was no village, there was no friends, there was no family there, there was no village, there was no friends, there was no family there, and my desire to work just wasn't being supported because of our situation. And so we made that major change and that like changed the game for us, because now we have my parents and my in-laws and then my sister moved back home this past year, so like that was a really big thing. The other thing that really changed was my husband quit his corporate job to make that move and now is a business owner and it's a super successful business. He gets to make his own schedule, he's like doing great and he's home so much, like he's home for like everything, which was such a game changer.

Speaker 2: 15:09

And then, on top of that I because I had let go of my business last year while I was pregnant with Riley like officially I had a different view of ambition and of my work and, like my purpose, had a different view of ambition and of my work and like my purpose and that kind of mindset shift and identity shift. I like felt like I finally was leaving and like shedding this part of me where I was defining myself by my work. Because first it was I was defining myself when I was a pediatric ICU nurse like I had a lot of ego wrapped up in that. And then I was like, oh well, I'm a successful six-figure business owner and I had a lot of identity wrapped up in that. And then when that was going down the drain and I wasn't making it work anymore, I went back to the bedside as a nurse and that was a huge ego hit for me because I was like, no, like I failed. But then I just kind of let it. Like, like you said, I just kind of let it all go. And when I allowed myself to let it go I just didn't have this like stress and pressure anymore. I knew I still wanted to help women. I knew I still had this deep desire for impact on my own terms, but I also accepted that it wasn't this season and so I felt like I the minute that I got pregnant with Riley.

Speaker 2: 16:34

I have this journal entry where I was like everything's about to happen for me and for my first pregnancy I was like I'm afraid that I'm going to lose everything and so I don't know. I just think, yes, the physical environment was so much different, like I had so much more support, but I just felt different. I was like I'm going to embrace this time because I looked back at Quinn's first like year of her life and I had no recollection. I was so lost and wrapped up in anxiety and stress and like just trying to make business work and finding myself, that I didn't remember how she felt, like all curled up on me, like as a newborn, and I didn't remember that. I don't even remember the newborn scrunch from her and I think I just finally accepted like there's nothing wrong in embracing motherhood, because for so long I thought that it was soft or like I had a lot of judgment around embracing motherhood, and so that in itself really changed.

Speaker 2: 17:38

I didn't have this. I had a paycheck coming in from my nursing job. I was working in the neonatal ICU at the time and, yeah, I don't know, I was just all. I was different. I was just a different person going into it and it was so, so healing, which was nice.

Speaker 1: 17:56

Yeah Well, I'm even thinking to like before we got on this call, before we started recording, you said something of like you're always postpartum, I think there's there's so much language around getting your body back or maintaining yourself in motherhood, and I think for some women that is going to encourage them, because I think there's so many women who do lose themselves and I think most of us would say like I don't want to lose myself, but I think then we lose the whole idea that like what if you're losing parts of yourself that weren't ever really you? It was what it was, another different agenda of something someone told you you needed to be or do, versus who do you become postpartum? Like you become when you're a mother? How does it change you? And how can that be a really good, beautiful thing? When it's not like you're not losing yourself into, you don't exist anymore. It's who am I really?

Speaker 2: 18:54

yeah, it was like I lost the parts of myself and still I feel like are, like I'm actively doing that of things that were no longer aligned with me, like doing the. I mean, I I don't know if you remember, but my, my old business I was on zoom calls like all day long, like I had multiple cohorts, I was working, you know, a full-time job, and that's not why I wanted to do it. I wanted the freedom and flexibility. And so I just feel like motherhood and postpartum it, I lost the parts of myself that were supposed to be lost and just really stripped those away. I just kept saying that the pregnancy with Riley, it forced me to strip away parts of myself that were no longer meant to be there.

Speaker 2: 19:42

And I found myself in motherhood through Riley's pregnancy, where I felt like I really lost parts of myself in quins. But like, looking back, I was supposed to, and so I just feel like motherhood has been this like personal growth journey for me that I would have never expected it to be like again. Like five years ago I've been like shut up. That sounds so lame, like no, I don't want to. You know, I don't want to think that, but I wouldn't be here today with the goals that I have and the mission that I have and the way that I parent and how I approach you know my time with my girls. If I hadn't have gone through all of those things, yeah, yeah, the.

Speaker 1: 20:28

I was talking with one of my groups of masterminds and we were talking about business specifically, and I loved the way one of the gals said that she was like I can go 90. I've gone 90. I've proved to myself and everyone else that I can go 90. And she was like I still could if I wanted to, but when I'm doing that I'm going so fast and I'm missing this. And she was like it's so hard to take my business and put it on the back burner. But as soon as I've put it on the back burner I'm realizing, realizing like I actually really enjoy, like this 45, 50 pace, like this is actually what I really wanted and needed.

Speaker 1: 21:02

It's just that my, like my foot was stuck on that gas pedal.

Speaker 1: 21:05

It was like there was a brick on that gas pedal, but it was dissociative and like high functioning and it's like I didn't feel present, I didn't feel in my body, I didn't feel connected to what I was doing and who I was.

Speaker 1: 21:18

And so it's like I think for so many women they're terrified to take their foot off the gas because they're afraid that that means nothing, like that they cease to exist or their business is to exist, and it's like I get so frustrated with the marketing of like moms can do it all and moms can have it all, because all of it is so inspirational and it sounds so positive.

Speaker 1: 21:40

But I know so many women who just need permission from someone to say like, yes, it's okay if it still feels good for you to keep the pace that you did before.

Speaker 1: 21:50

It's also totally okay if all of feels good for you to keep the pace that you did before. It's also totally okay if all of a sudden, you decide like whoa, this doesn't feel right anymore and I want to slow down temporarily, or at least for this season. Like I look at my life and it's like I didn't have business, I didn't have that entrepreneurial side at all until my babies were older, and so I've had this season of like I know I could go 90 right now and there is a big part of me that really, really wants to like, but I have to look around in my life and be like it's not time yet, like it's not time to be on the highway and I have some days where I get to have that feeling, but like right now I don't want to be going so fast all of the time and it sounds like when you slow down, when you change, that it also changed your business and your postpartum this time.

Speaker 2: 22:42

Yeah, it was like, like you said, I was giving myself that permission to just take it day by day, hour by hour, because I was afraid that if I let go of it all, that I would never come back, that I would lose that part of me, or like not for me. I think it was a lot about like reaching my potential or like unfulfilled dreams, and I just didn't want that to happen. But when I gave myself that permission, I found so much more joy in the day to day. I was able to stop feeling pulled in multiple directions, like I was just feeling for so long of like oh, I'm with Quinn right now, but like I want to be doing this. Or I'm like in my business, but I feel guilty because I want to be with her. And then it's so funny Cause, like my husband is like a stereotypical, like masculine, like bro marketer, like he's an insurance agent, like he's like Laura, like if you want to make this, he's still saying this.

Speaker 2: 23:44

If you want to make it happen, you just have to like stay up late and get up early. I'm like I'm waking up three, four, five times a night. Still, when would you like me to do that? Because I'm not going to sit here and drown myself in exhaustion just so I get there faster. Like this time when I do it, I want to do it because it feels really good and I want to make the impact and be creative and like see myself fulfilled in that way and also be the woman, the mom and the wife that I want to be. Like I don't want anything to suffer because I think I have to go 100. But it's that permission slip Like you I think I had.

Speaker 2: 24:33

There were so many times that I just like completely got off social because I just needed to hear what I wanted and tune out all the noises of like oh, you can have it all or you can make a million dollars in 20 hours of business. If you just do these things, I'm like what the hell is happening? Like I just don't understand here, and so like getting quiet and just checking in with myself and being like what do I want in this season? Like what are my values? Because they're different and I think normalizing that they can change, like those values and priorities so often in different seasons of motherhood, and just checking in with yourself is so powerful because the way that I feel now, at 11 months postpartum about work is so totally different than I felt at three months postpartum when I left my bedside nursing job to work even less in nursing.

Speaker 1: 25:28

Yeah, well, and it's true that I think I think every season of motherhood postpartum right, you're always postpartum, you're always post this now and I think there's so many different seasons where, even lately, there was a year or two ago where, like I was hitting the gas a little harder, and then last year I just had this knowing that like I needed a different pace.

Speaker 1: 25:51

I needed and wanted something different.

Speaker 1: 25:53

And I'm constantly telling moms like it's not about if you're, if you're leading from this place, of like the mom guilt, of like I'm trying to have it all and do it all and be it all, which I think is mostly shame, not guilt, but without getting on that soapbox for me, like I keep coming back to like balance is going to change, your priorities are going to change, because you're in a season when you are a mom, you are in a season where there is something, there is a giant force outside of you and every time that force changes, you have to change, you have to adapt.

Speaker 1: 26:28

I mean, motherhood is the most intense form of leadership. I think that exists, honestly, and I'm always telling people like the law of motion right, like an object in motion stays in motion and an object at rest, stays at rest unless acted upon by an unequal, uneven force. And I'm like is that not motherhood? Like it's? You're going to have to change your pace and whenever that happens, it's not necessarily going to feel pleasant, right, like if you're speeding up or you're slowing down. That doesn't always feel great, but you have to pay attention to when the pace no longer works or the direction no longer works. I'm curious, I want to, I want to jump back into more like the postpartum, especially like that early postpartum.

Speaker 2: 27:13

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:14

What is the work that you're so passionate about doing? Like, tell me about what you're doing.

Speaker 2: 27:20

Yeah, so I am launching my new business holding mom postpartum um as a postpartum nurse navigator. And so it all was kind of born just a couple of weeks into my own postpartum nurse navigator. And so it all was kind of born just a couple of weeks into my own postpartum because I was in it. I was in you know the thick, the trenches of fresh postpartum, terrible nipple pain, like 10 out of 10. I was like something's not right so and we were like navigating like toddler illness, and so there was so much stress, there was so much anxiety, there was all these things happening in those first just couple of weeks. And I remember thinking to myself I can do it this time because I've done it before, but I also have more support, and yet I need someone in my corner, that's just for me. And I don't have that because I'm navigating. Okay, my own health issues, because something's not right breastfeeding, and I'm a certified lactation counselor I knew something wasn't right and so I'm like going down all these rabbit holes, like with lactation consultants and I'm like you know a thrush diagnosis, and then she was like, oh, but the latch looks fine. I'm like, but something's still not right. And then finally it's like a tongue tie that we had to get released.

Speaker 2: 28:43

But in that journey it was nine weeks of pain, stress and then also navigating the healthcare system that I was only able to do because I'm a nurse and so I had that thing that was taking up all of my time and energy. I also had the healing of postpartum that was happening, that just happens naturally, and the sleep deprivation that happens in those early days and then transitioning from one to two kids and my toddler needing me so much, especially because we came home from the hospital and two hours later she spikes a fever. So I was like, oh, my gosh, like how am I like what is happening? And there were so many moving parts. And that lactation consultant came into my gosh. Like how am I like what is happening? And there were so many moving parts. And that lactation consultant came into my home because I was like I can't leave, like I cannot physically leave this house there's, I don't have the energy.

Speaker 2: 29:42

And I was like, oh, I could do that. I could come into someone's home and support them, maybe not in a completely lactation capacity, but I have my parents, I have my in-laws, I have my sister, but I still feel alone, I still feel lonely, I still feel like there's no one here to talk to or that I have in my back pocket just for me. And that's kind of where this all happened, because postpartum is such a transitional time where your identity is shifting, your family is changing, your health is all over the place. I also had food poisoning seven days postpartum and I was like deathly ill, like in bed, like trying to pump myself, like horizontal, and there's so much happening. And then you also have to deal with the health care system if things aren't going well, and that in itself is a stressor.

Speaker 2: 30:45

So I was like, okay, how can I combine my experience as a pediatric and NICU nurse, my experience?

Speaker 2: 30:53

Now? I'm a care coordinator nurse, so my job is to navigate the healthcare system for parents. Put that in my lactation knowledge, my baby care knowledge, like all of these things. How can I combine them, plus my work with women to make sure that no woman feels alone in their postpartum period, so that they feel empowered going into it? They feel like they're really lifted up instead of feeling lonely, even when there's people around them. And that's where this was born, and so, like now, it's almost been a full year of tinkering and refining and working with clients and it's just. This mission is something that I would have never thought to like help moms really thrive in the postpartum period. But if I can help someone spot a perinatal mental health disorder sooner or prevent it, or help them feel more empowered or help them elongate their breastfeeding journey, like then I will feel so good about that, because the way that you enter motherhood and the way that you experience postpartum affects you for the rest of your life.

Speaker 1: 32:10

What you just said there, yes, a thousand times, because I got so sick of the whole culture around breast is best, or fed is best, or the births, or it's like, and it's like the only reason any of that, like that stuff does matter, but it it matters because you matter, it matters because this baby matter, it matters because this baby matters, it matters because your experience and your health and wellbeing matter, like that's why all of that matters. So people can talk until they're blue in the face about what's better for you and your baby. But like what if you actually had someone to figure out what you needed and wanted and the reality that, like what we think is best doesn't always work out in our control, or what we wanted or how we wanted? And even just when you said, like looking out for the perinatal mood disorders, we had a provider, like a local group of providers that all got together talking about like perinatal mental and emotional wellness and that was one of the things we were talking about is like your postpartum screening at your doctor's appointment.

Speaker 1: 33:10

It's like, even if, even if you have red flags on that, like most of those providers, like they aren't, they aren't equipped for that, like they're not equipped for helping you or supporting you, and it's like you have these women who, it's like even well-connected women like, who have a network of people. I think people are so busy, unfortunately, I think our culture is moving so quickly that even when you have really good friends and family, it can be so easy to miss, especially for, like, your high functioning women or the people who present really well, but like they're struggling so much underneath. And I think of like if there could be one person who saw someone and like actually wasn't afraid to talk about it, one or ask the hard questions without them being hard, like just normalizing the experience without terrifying people normalizing the experience without terrifying people.

Speaker 2: 34:13

Yeah Well, and my postpartum anxiety wasn't caught. My first time I lied on that questionnaire I was like I'm fine, like I'm just tired, like, and if I had actually, I think, recognized in the moments that I was really struggling with PPA and probably, honestly, some PPD, that like was just missed, I think my entire postpartum experience could have been so much better and I wouldn't have struggled so much. And it's why I get so fired up about it. I'm like you really think a sheet of paper at six weeks or eight weeks postpartum is going to do anything? Women's drowning, like there's no way, like there's just there's no way.

Speaker 2: 34:54

And it's such an important and like honorable thing to walk through a walk through postpartum with a woman. And it's why I'm like sitting for my perinatal mental health certification too, cause I'm like I, I refuse, I refuse to do this work and then completely ignore this huge part that one out of five women experience. One out of five women in their pregnancy or postpartum experience like a perinatal mood or anxiety disorder. And if that's the case and most of it is undiagnosed, like that's so many women suffering and it's just like you said, this idea of like well, breast is best, and like don't use medication and labor, and like all this stuff.

Speaker 2: 35:40

It's like that's part of the issue. Is this judgment that we're all passing, whether it's from practitioners or just you know friends or colleagues or you know acquaintances. You just have to be supported and lifted up and celebrated and whatever happens is totally perfect, like if you're taking care of yourself and you're taking care of your baby, you win, instead of putting all this pressure on yourself to do it a certain way. So I get so fired up about it because I'm just like it shouldn't be this way. Like I got so fired up about it at this postpartum that I applied to grad school to become a women's health nurse practitioner, until it's like I don't actually want to do that Because the system has to change the way that we treat women and especially postpartum women. Like it has to change and if not, then like motherhood is going to continue being a struggle for people and continue being overlooked.

Speaker 1: 36:39

Yeah, well, and what's wild. I was listening to what podcast was Diary of a CEO, but I'm trying. I can't remember who his guest was and you know some of the stuff his guest said. I was like whatever. But there was some stuff he said about like the birth rates, how much they're declining because people aren't interested in being mothers anymore, and he had some interesting ideas of how we solve that, like robot nurses. It's really bad, you'll have to listen to it. I was like what is happening when we're like embracing that, like AI should raise our children?

Speaker 1: 37:10

Anyways, without getting on that note, what I was gonna say is that, like this is a huge issue and I think what's hard is I'm such like a big bleeding heart for women and I look at like when I first started my business and like same like that was so much of my heart is. I was like so many people are looking at mothers as they parent, right, they're like how are you parenting? What are you doing? And I was like who's looking out for the person, the person of the mother, hence, like the name, the motherhood mentor. That's where that came from. It was like who's looking out for you as a human being, as a person Like who's looking out for you as a human being, as a person, and I think there was so many times over the last couple of years where I'm like man, this is too big, too big. And then I have these moments where it's like that one mom or that one person or that one little tiny change, where it's like, if you can impact a mother, what's crazy? When you impact a mother, you impact her entire family, her entire lineage. Like this is cycle breaking at its best of like you, when you are helping a mother, she will automatically go and help her children more. Like when a mother feels better, she'll be able to parent better. Right, because the parenting comes from the parent. But I think so much of parenting, education and experts for so so long has been about how do you do it the right way. It's all of these books, it's all of these experts telling you what to do, and it's all very informational, which I think is helpful. But I'm like we have more information than we've ever had and like, at what point does that stop helping? Because what people really need is relationship and advocacy, someone to believe them and trust them and hear them out and support them in the decisions they're making.

Speaker 1: 38:57

Because it's like man, that postpartum period. It's been so long since I've been there, but I had the like honor of sitting in a room, I was sitting at dinner, with a group of women who, like they're all still in that, like two and under, yeah, and I was just like, oh my gosh, that was so fucking exhausting. Like when you get to like second or third grade, like none of the moms are talking about, like you black out, no one knows where your babies were born or how or what they were fed, or like. And I still remember I think it was like kindergarten or first grade year I like looked around and I was like I breastfed this kid for so freaking long and she is sicker than every kid in that class, yeah, but like, honestly, I didn't realize how bad my postpartum anxiety was because I was so controlling, I was so like I have to do the right thing at the right time, and that perfectionism postpartum is always so brutal.

Speaker 2: 40:03

It's. I mean, it's paralyzing that perfectionism because you want, you want to do everything for your baby perfectly, you want to be perfect Like you, the way that you show up in your body and like like it's just nonstop. And I don't know, I truly don't know where that comes from, because no one's telling me that I have to look a certain way or I have to do these certain things, or, you know, show up for both of my children at this point, going from one to two. In a certain way, it's all me, like I'm the one having these crazy high expectations to the point where, like, I'm driving myself insane and my husband's like what the hell is wrong with you? And I'm looking at him like you don't care. He's like, well, of course I care, but like, what are you stressing about?

Speaker 2: 40:57

Just last night we had an experience with you. Know, we have had an angry face in our toddler's life and I guess she's a preschooler now and I'm like stressed. I'm like I don't know. Are we doing the right thing? Like with this discipline, like I don't know, because this person says this and this person he's like Laura, they're not in our house. I was like, but aren't you concerned that you're going to traumatize here. I was like, no, I'm not.

Speaker 1: 41:27

I was like must be nice, must be nice. Like there's so many times where I'm like if I could just not care too much, right, would it be easier. But also like I could never not care too much. Like I like that part about myself that there's too much, but I've had to learn to let it be this permission for growth, this permission for wanting to do things better and better and better in every arena of my life, like classic perfectionism. But like I have to also realize like it's not going to be perfect, it's going to be messy, it's going to be human, and like that's also how it's supposed to be. But it's.

Speaker 1: 41:55

It's interesting that you were like wait, why did we get this? And I think it's because it's it's so much unconscious, it's so much unconscious of like our animal bodies are picking up I do think social media has a big thing to do with it of like our animal bodies are unconsciously taking in data points of how we belong and what we need to do to survive. But like that no longer looks like just make sure you're a decent parent and don't abuse your kids. Like the bar used to be pretty freaking low. Like it used to be pretty low. Like that bar, to like be a good parent. And now you think of the like extremes and I do. This is coming from someone who, like I, I care way too much about parenting. Like I tended to the over parenting category. I read all the books, I listen to all the podcasts and sometimes I just remind myself this is too much. Just go connect with my kid and like be a decent human being. Like, be a healthy human being, be a leader of my own emotions, my own decisions, my boundaries. Make sure that I am teaching like, what do I want to teach my kids? I come back to that values work, which I think.

Speaker 1: 43:04

How many mothers, how many people are going into motherhood with someone talking to them about like, what do you value as a person? What do you value for your kids? What hills are you willing to die on with your kids? That's where I always come back to is like is this a hill I need to die on? Is the kid going to be okay? We don't have villages anymore. We don't see other kids throwing tantrums and how other moms respond to them, and a wide variety of responses too, of like. There's a lot of different versions of healthy responses to toddlers throwing fits, but we only see one. We see like, by the way, I love Dr Becky. So when I say like we only hear Dr Becky's response to the toddler throwing a fit, and I'm like yeah, that's one version of healthy, but like there's a whole different orientation of like how you might respond. You might not be Dr Becky and we I love her Right.

Speaker 2: 43:54

I'm yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:55

No, go ahead. I was just going to say how is your?

Speaker 2: 44:02

postpartum season changing. Now I feel there are days where I feel so very much in that postpartum season still Like I'm still very actively breastfeeding because this child, my children, just refuse to self wean. We also are like still having many night wake ups. She's got like a million teeth coming in. She's going through all these developmental changes. I don't judge, no matter what people choose to do. I can't let her cry Like I'm going in there whenever she needs me to.

Speaker 2: 44:36

So, like those days I'm like I'm in it, like I'm in the trenches. I'm still very much in baby phase. But then there's other days where I'm like there's maybe half of the days last week that I was like wow, like I feel really good, I feel creative and ambitious and I've gotten to the point where I just finally admitted that I want to be working more Um, which I didn't at all like the last year and a half Um I cut. I like cut down to a what we call in the nursing world a soft nursing position where, um I'm not client-facing, I'm very much like working with parents behind the scenes. I'm remote Um, I work 20 hours a week and now I'm like I want another day a week at least of working on my business and I'm feeling that itch again, like I'm feeling kind of myself emerge. But it depends on the day.

Speaker 1: 45:29

So like that fog, it's like I always tell people. It's like when you're in the fog, like you don't know when it's going to go away, and like sometimes it's like looser fog, like you can see through it better. Sometimes it's denser and like sometimes it'll lift, sometimes it'll come back, but like it's just not panicking when you're in the fog of like it will get sunny, like today we were both talking about. Like it's sunny and it's beautiful out, Like I just have to remind myself it's just a season.

Speaker 2: 45:57

Mm-hmm, and that has been really helpful for me. This time is like the second time, mom, energy of like I know this is all going to end. First time, mommy, I was like I know this is all going to end. First time, mommy, I was like, oh my God, this is never going to get better, never going to end. Like my first didn't sleep through the night till 17 months, and so that for me was just so hard.

Speaker 2: 46:15

This time I'm like, all right, we're 11 months, like we'll see how long this will last, but like I know it's going to end. And then I'm like, when that's it, the sleep is such a big thing. Like once that sleep happens, things feel so much better and even like I got my first postpartum period, like a couple last month maybe, and that in itself, like that hormone cycle, actually led me to feel a lot more like myself than I had been. Um, and I think, until I end up weaning from breastfeeding, like it's, it's like an acceptance, that like okay, like I'm still going to feel. Like that fog I have, like it's almost like um, like one of those filters that like you put in front of a camera, like that sepia filter from the early days. That's just gonna. It's how it is, until for me at least, until I get my body back, until you know I don't have to wake up every one to three hours, or you know, whatever it is.

Speaker 1: 47:16

Oh, that season, uh, like it, it's a season that asks a lot of us. It really does. It asks a lot of so many different parts of ourself mentally, emotionally, physically. And can I just say, as someone who was out of those years of like the sleep stuff we had kids who had been sleeping through the night for years and I mean, like our kids were like, our kids were big enough that it was like you say goodnight, it's like five minutes, they're in bed, they go to sleep on their own, they sleep in. It was magical and we got got a puppy. And not only was this puppy, it was a very unexpected like holy shit, I now am responsible for this thing.

Speaker 1: 47:55

That's just like trying to kill itself or destroy everything. Again, like very much toddler vibes, yeah, but we started not sleeping and when I tell you, it took one week for me to all of a sudden be like what the fuck is wrong with me, like why is this destroying me? And it was. I think it was sleep and I think it was like we were fighting more and bickering more and I was like mad at my husband and like I was like not as patient and like I'm grateful that, like I was healthy enough to be able to like kind of go outside myself and be like it's okay, it's just because you're not sleeping good. But I was like I wonder if women in that season know, like literally, how much this is making things harder on you. And then it's not even your fault, like that's. I was someone who was like I was perfectly stable, I had so much mental and emotional capacity, everything in my life was fine. And then you took sleep away from me and all of a sudden I was just like am I okay?

Speaker 2: 48:48

Oh, it's insane, Like it's actually insane how much it affects you and like I have an aura ring, so like I'm tracking my sleep and so like every day, like it's like something stressed you less. I'm like no shit. Of course my body is stressed because I'm not sleeping through the night, but like those few nights where it's like, oh, I got five hour stretches, like twice last week I think she slept five hours in a row. I woke up and I could take on the world, and it's. It's just so funny how the littlest things could.

Speaker 2: 49:23

Because you've got the sleep deprivation, you've got the hormone shifts, no matter if you breastfeed or not, like you're still, your hormones don't regulate for up to two years postpartum.

Speaker 2: 49:29

So, like you know, you're not going to feel completely yourself for a long, long time.

Speaker 2: 49:35

And it's why I started doing this like intentional motherhood challenge recently that I've started posting about, because on those hard days I've been finding that like, oh, I just I'm so frustrated by this, like I want to have more of those really good days, but I wasn't enjoying it anymore.

Speaker 2: 49:53

I wasn't enjoying the you know, playtime with my kids or whatever, and I'm like, okay, well, if that's the case, like what's actually going on and I just wasn't being intentional Part of it's winter. I just wasn't being intentional Part of it's winter but, like, I was like how, how can I make this more enjoyable for me in a season where it's not perfect, where I'm not getting the rest that I need, where I don't fully feel like myself yet, and knowing that that's okay. But, like, what are the small things I can do to enjoy every part more? And that's been really helping too is just like doing these small things like training for a race and enjoying my coffee and getting dressed in jeans rather than leggings, like just small things at this point postpartum, where I get those glimmers of like oh, like, I'm here, it's going to be okay.

Speaker 1: 50:42

Well, I think that's so important because I think there's so many women who they they go to that like hyper control area of, like perfectionist, trying to do everything really, really well. And I think there's this fear of this other side where, like women, get into this victim mentality, where, like they lose concept of they're so dedicated to motherhood that they stop, they stop feeling and showing up to the actions they can't make Right. And it of course, it makes sense why that happens. But coming back to this place where it's like what can I control, what is what is within my capacity? And it's like, yes, I can't, consistency can't look the same that it used to. But maybe my consistency can be dependent on my capacity, and I can. It doesn't have to be an hour in the gym every single day. It can be a 10 minute walk outside with my toddler. Is that perfect? No, but like it, it brings you back little by little, and I think so many women are so used to that all or nothing. And I think in motherhood it just like it really intensifies it so much. And if we can get out of that all or nothing, and I think in motherhood it just like it really intensifies it so much and if we can get out of that all or nothing. And especially the comparison too, because I think we look at what someone else is doing and if we can't do that, we just don't do anything.

Speaker 1: 51:56

Versus what can I do, what's within my capacity? If you are early on postpartum, that capacity might be smaller versus like, and then also you get to this shift where you go I need more, I need more time, I need more space, I need more intensity. Like I'm in a season right now where I'm coming out of like a personal winter season where I'm going like okay slow, isn't feeling good anymore. Like we've had enough grace, becca, like I literally like the other day with like journaling and I was like we have had enough grace and compassion. We need a little bit more Goggins energy. Like we need a little bit more like get up out of bed early in the morning to get stuff done, because I'm craving that, I'm needing that. Like things aren't feeling good anymore and there are things that I can control with it. So it's it's interesting to notice those kinds of different waves of seasons, yeah.

Speaker 2: 52:49

And like, if you get like even deeper into it, like if you're into astrology and everything like. Mars has been in retrograde literally until like the other day, and that's our planet of like action, and so now it's direct, so like we might all start to feel this energy of like. Oh, I do want to take some action now and I feel kind of ambitious. This energy of like, oh, I do want to take some action now and I feel kind of ambitious and the you know astrological new year is coming up in March. So like I will never forget, yeah, like my spiritual like side, my spiritual friends are like yeah, I mean, the new year technically doesn't start astrologically until March. So like, if you feel like you're in a winter December, january, february that's totally fine. That always makes me feel a little better too. I'm like oh, okay, like you know, it's not technically the new year.

Speaker 1: 53:32

I am not an astrology person at all, like I just like I don't get it. But just the other day I like looked at a friend and I was like is there a planet in the microwave again? Because something's going on, something has changed, and I was like there's something happening on an energetic like our animal bodies. There's something happening. And it's so fascinating because, like I work with such diverse clients Like they're all moms Most of them are entrepreneurs Like there's a lot of similarities, but like when I start hearing the same themes over and over and over, I'm going huh, what's happening?

Speaker 2: 54:10

out here.

Speaker 1: 54:12

What's happening in the realms that, like, I can't concretely see. And obviously there's like the culture is a lot of chaos and stuff right now, but I was like there's something going on right now, so that's, I have to look that up. I'm curious what did we miss? Is there something that you wanted to like touch on about, like postpartum, or just like something else you would share that we didn't talk about yet?

Speaker 2: 54:35

I think the biggest thing that I come back to time and time and time again when I look back at my last two postpartums and how I feel as a mom now and an entrepreneur now and in the vast ways that I have helped women in the last couple of years, it all comes down to being able to trust yourself and know that you know yourself, your body, your baby, your business best.

Speaker 2: 55:04

And if we can remember that and tune out the noise like, I feel like that is the most empowering, powerful thing that we could ever do as women, as mothers, is trust our intuition and trust ourselves to make those decisions, no matter if you are three months postpartum, whether you have older kids that are 10 and 12, like, no matter what stage of business you're in, when you can come back to yourself. I think that's what the world wants us to forget and to like ignore, and there's nothing more powerful and I just feel super honored to help women remember that, like in this age of over information. Yes, I will. You know, I will empower you with education from you, know my nursing background and my lactation background. But, like, at the end of the day, you've got to do you and you've got to trust yourself, and that's my biggest thing, no matter what.

Speaker 1: 56:05

Can I ask you something about that? Mm-hmm, what if a woman says she doesn't know how to trust herself? That's my biggest thing, no matter what. Can I ask you something about that? What if a woman says she doesn't know how to trust herself?

Speaker 2: 56:13

She just has to look for like ways that she can and for like what is that word? My postpartum brain, but the examples of it. Because there are times that you've been able to trust yourself. There are times that you have shown able to trust yourself. There are times that you have shown up for yourself when you thought that you couldn't, or you went through something really, really tough and you thought you weren't going to get through it, and you did. Or you advocated for a friend, or you advocated, you know, you left a party early in high school because it felt weird, like that's you trusting yourself, like it can show up in such tiny or large ways. And I think sometimes, if you feel like, oh no, I've made mistakes or I've not been able to trust myself in the past, there's so many more examples of times that you could have.

Speaker 1: 57:02

Yeah, I really like that and I hear, too, something that I work with women a lot of sometimes we're not trusting ourselves because we've given our like emotional, energetic authority outside of ourselves right, and I think this especially happens in motherhood, because there's so many experts, there's so many people outside of us who know better and we give I was doing air quotes there on the know better.

Speaker 1: 57:24

They do know information, but there's not relationship, there's not connection and it's like I would never trust a rando on the street to make decisions for me. I might trust someone who knows, loves and likes me, who has only positive intent for me, but I think some women, when they, when we're like, oh, just trust yourselves, or trust your intuition, it's like you can start by taking some authority back and creating consistency and, like you said, like the evidence of when are times where you didn't know what you were doing and yet you figured it out, you asked the right questions or you got the right support, or you figured out like, what would a trustworthy person do, who's someone I trust in my life, and how do they show up, how do they talk, how do they relate? And then bringing that back to how you relate to yourself, because I do think trust and intuition for so many women is so hard, especially in motherhood. Because it's so it's that hasn't been a very important part for a long time.

Speaker 2: 58:22

Well, because people don't make money If you trust yourselves, well because people don't make money.

Speaker 1: 58:29

If you trust yourselves, I know how to make you. I can't have you pay me three grand for me to teach you how to make seven grand if you know what to do already Exactly.

Speaker 2: 58:38

It's like and with the clients that I've had so far holding mom postpartum, like they'll text me questions, right, and they'll say, like this thing is happening with my milk supply. Or you know, I decided to sleep train and now my milk supply is going down. Like what should I do? I'm like, well, first. Or like they're trying to troubleshoot something's happening and they're like I don't know if she's getting enough. I'm like, okay, here's what we look for, here's the evidence, the education here. I know what I think, but I always say I'm like what do you think? It is? Like check in with your gut right now. Is this your anxiety talking? Is this actually real? Or like, is it something different? Like what do you actually think? You're just looking for me to give the answers, but you already know the answer. And every single time they're like this is what I think it is. I'm like, oh, yeah% agree. But like yeah, I'm glad that you came to that conclusion.

Speaker 2: 59:29

They want that affirmation and permission that they love themselves exactly, and so I think the more that we get to do that as women, the more that we can help other women do that, like our friends and our clients, like we end up really empowering like an entire generation of women and our daughters to do the same. So then we are no longer giving our power away and and looking outside of ourselves for the answers or for what's like what you said earlier, like what's right. That's a huge thing for me. I'm like, oh, I always want to do what's right, and it's like no, like that will exhaust you to the point of no return.

Speaker 1: 1:00:06

And it's interesting. We're talking about motherhood right now, but my brain just went and this goes for business too, and I think that's that is one reason why motherhood and business go beautifully together is because you start realizing that like there is no perfect formula for it, especially when we're talking, like entrepreneurship, business, of like you like, yeah, you need some strategies, yeah, you need some information, but like at some point, like you're, you're going to have to take messy action, you're going to have to trust yourself, you're going to have to make some mistakes and figure it out along the way and pivot when necessary. I have loved this conversation so much, laura. It has. It has just like lit me up to be able to like see you and talk to you and just see your evolution since I first met you too.

Speaker 2: 1:00:53

It's been so nice. I mean, I remember when you like, when we first met and you were just starting your business and it's just like so cool to see how much you've evolved.

Speaker 1: 1:01:02

It was like a postpartum mom. Yeah, my sisters.

Speaker 2: 1:01:06

Yeah, it was just like so sweet and you've just come so far and I've just loved watching you like every step of the way and I'm so grateful that we're still in contact and I've loved being here.

Speaker 1: 1:01:16

We need like a reunion or something. I love all you ladies. Well, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for joining me on today's episode of the Motherhood Mentor Podcast. Make sure you have subscribed below so that you see all of the upcoming podcasts that are coming soon. I hope you take today's episode and you take one aha moment, one small, tangible piece of work that you can bring into your life. To get your hands a little dirty, to get your skin in the game. Don't forget to take up audacious space in your life. If this podcast moved you, if it inspired you, if it encouraged you, please do me a favor and leave a review, send an episode to a friend. This helps the show gain more traction. It helps us to support more moms, more women, and that's what we're doing here. So I hope you have an awesome day, take really good care of yourself and I'll see you next time.