Can I Get a Refill?

Beyond the Bounce Back: Postnatal Recovery, Safe Exercise & Supporting Mums with Jen Dugard🤰

• Steph Bruno-Newton • Season 3 • Episode 63

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 36:23

Send us Fan Mail

Postpartum recovery is one of the most important - and often overlooked - phases of a woman’s health journey.

In today’s episode, I’m joined by Jen Dugard, founder of MumSafe™, award-winning exercise professional, educator and author who has dedicated her career to helping women safely navigate pregnancy, childbirth and postnatal recovery.

After becoming a mother herself in 2008, Jen recognised a significant gap in the fitness industry when it came to properly supporting women during pregnancy and after birth. Since then, she has been on a mission to educate both mums and fitness professionals about safe exercise, recovery and long-term wellbeing during the postnatal period.

In this conversation we explore:

• Jen’s journey in the fitness industry and how motherhood reshaped her career
 • What every new or expectant mum needs to know about safe exercise after birth
• The long-term consequences of ignoring postnatal recovery
• The pressure many women feel to “bounce back” after pregnancy
• Why the fitness industry must move beyond aesthetics and focus on supporting women’s health
• Responding to the harmful narrative that new mums are simply “lazy” if they don’t regain their pre-baby bodies quickly
• How busy mums can still prioritise their own wellbeing and self-care

This episode is an important reminder that postpartum recovery isn’t about rushing back to how your body once looked — it’s about honouring everything your body has been through and supporting it with the care it truly deserves.

Whether you’re a new mum, expecting a baby, or simply interested in women’s health, this conversation offers valuable insight into why postnatal care matters so much for long-term wellbeing.

Have a listen to our chat, or watch the full video on YouTube here.

Thanks for tuning in today to The Can I Get a Refill? Podcast, and be sure to jump on my website (below) to download a free 33 page eBook on 7 Steps to Protect Your Energy & Fill Up Your Cup. 

You cannot pour from an empty cup, so I’ve designed a guide to help you take care of yourself, in order to uplevel your life. Download it today and make yourself a priority in 2026!

Be sure to reach out to us on socials (outlined below)

Can I Get A Refill? - Website - SIGN UP TO RECEIVE YOUR FREE 33 PAGE eBOOK ON 7 WAYS TO PROTECT YOUR ENERGY & FILL UP YOUR CUP

Can I Get A Refill? - Instagram
Steph Bruno-Newton - Instagram
Can I Get A Refill? - YouTube
Substack - Blog Articles
The Barefoot Blogger - Blog Articles

Jen Dugard - Instagram
MumSafe- Instagram
Jen Dugard- Website
MumSafe - Website
The MumSafe Pro - Podcast

Pilgrims Cronulla - Website / Menu
Pilgrims Cronulla - Instagram
Queen Margherita of Savoy -

SPEAKER_00

I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which this episode is being recorded and pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today.

SPEAKER_01

Jumping in here to talk directly to my Sydney friends about one of my absolute favourite cafes, Pilgrims Crenulla. Now located in their gorgeous new location opposite South Crenolla Park, with expanded indoor and outdoor seating, including pet-friendly tables out front, and delicious food, juice, and coffee. The menu is full of wholesome, vegger-friendly eats that feel both nostalgic and nourishing. Expect brecki wraps, vibrant salads, smoothies, fresh juices, and some of the best plant-based sandwiches going. I strongly recommend the corn fritters and the chai shake, which is definitely big enough for two. Check them out on Insta and be sure to visit when you're next in Cornella. A podcast for ambitious women who are tired of pouring from an empty cup, but still want to grow, evolve, and build a life they're proud of. Through a mix of comforting solo episodes and inspiring conversations with industry professionals, authors, wellness experts, and entrepreneurs, we talk about what it really looks like to refill your cup while up-leveling your life. Topics include mental, emotional, and physical wellness, hormonal health, manifestation, career and finance, boundaries, self-trust, and redefining success on your own terms. Hosted by me, Steph Bruno Newton, each weekly episode is designed to motivate, ground, and empower you to take care of your needs and go after the life you actually want. Pour yourself a cup, take a breath, and let's refill it together. Today we're talking about something that so many women experience, yet surprisingly isn't spoken about nearly enough. Postnatal recovery and how we support women after they've brought a baby into the world. In a culture that often celebrates the idea of bouncing back and getting your pre-baby body back as quickly as possible, many new mothers are left navigating one of the most physically and emotionally demanding periods of their lives with very little guidance about how to properly care for their bodies. But the truth is, pregnancy, birth, and early motherhood are not something the body simply snaps back from. They are profound experiences that require time, care, patience, and the right support. My guest today is someone who has dedicated her career to changing the conversation around postpartum recovery. Jen Dugard is the founder of Mum Safe, an award-winning exercise professional, educator, and author who has spent years helping mums safely navigate pregnancy, birth, and their postnatal recovery. Through her work, she's empowering both mothers and fitness professionals with the knowledge they need to prioritize long-term health over unrealistic expectations. In this conversation, we talk about what safe exercise after birth actually looks like, the long-term consequences of ignoring postpartum recovery, and why the fitness industry still has work to do when it comes to supporting women through this important stage of life. We also touch on the cultural pressure many mothers face to get their bodies back and why it's time we shift the conversation towards something much more meaningful, helping women care for their bodies with the same love and attention they give to their babies. So if you're a mum, an expectant mum, or someone who works with women in fitness or healthcare, this conversation is for you. Thanks for tuning in again today to the Can I get a Refill Podcast. And as always, jump on the website www.cannegetareefill podcast.com.au, linked in the show notes, to download your free 33-page ebook on seven steps to protect your energy and fill up your cup. As you know, you cannot pour from an empty cup, so I've designed a guide to help you take care of yourself in order to up level your life. Download it today and make yourself a priority. Okay, let's jump in. Hello, my cup fillers, and welcome back to the Can I Get a Refill Podcast. As just promised, this one's a very special episode for the mums and mums to be out there. We're joined by a special guest, Jen Dugard. Jen, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02

I'm excited that we got here.

SPEAKER_01

I'm very excited. We're just saying we've had a bit of rescheduling. We've both had a bit of tech issues. I've got construction about to happen tomorrow in the building. So I'm so grateful that we finally got to this. And Jen, I must say, for me personally, this is so beneficial to me. I have an 18, I'm 18 months postpartum. I have an 18-month-old son currently trying for number two. That's not happening as easily as the first one because we're a bit busy and stressed. And there's there's a third person in our bed. But I I honestly, other than YouTubing a few ab exercises to do postpartum, and I had a C section, so I really waited the full six weeks. I really didn't know much about taking care of my body physically postpartum. So I'm and I I would imagine that there's a lot of women out there like that. So I'm very excited when I was reading up on you to do this episode today.

SPEAKER_02

I'm excited to be here, and I think you're absolutely right. There's a lot of what I hear from a lot of women is why did nobody tell me? Yes. And you know, and then Dr. Google is great, but also add in ChatGPT, and it's like, you know, what do you believe? Who do you believe? And how do you even figure out what is right for you from all of the information that's out there?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you're an individual. There is never a one size fits all approach. And you know, and births themselves and pregnancies are so different from woman to woman, and our bodies are so different from woman to woman. So it's really good to jump into that today. So let's talk about um you've had a great career in the fitness industry. So talk us through your career in the fitness industry and how your career evolved after becoming a mum in 2008. Is that right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so I said the other day it's 2018 and no one could do the math. But no, my son was born in 2008, which means he turns 18 in July, which is absolutely mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_01

July, but again, my son's in July too.

SPEAKER_02

24th.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, so he's a Leo. That's what I was aiming for.

SPEAKER_02

My son's both my kids are actually born on the same day, which is wild.

SPEAKER_01

My husband and my son are on the same road with it.

SPEAKER_02

It's just yeah, weird how that stuff plays out. Yeah. But um, yeah, so I started, I was a personal trainer before I had um Mali, and then I became pregnant, had a um, had had him, left the gym like two weeks before he was born in the end. Like I was supposed to have, you know, a month off, and then he came two weeks early. And then I was just launched into this postpartum period that I knew that I wanted to get back to the gym and I had every I had the knowledge to go back to the gym, but I didn't really know what I was doing. Um, and then I launched Body Beyond Baby, where again I it reinforced that I knew I wanted to help mums to move their bodies, but again, whilst I could help them to do squats, help them to do lunges, help them to take time out from their baby, I didn't really understand the intricacies of their body, the postpartum body. So at that point, uh I had done a pre and postnatal certification, they were very, very basic back then. At that point, 18 years ago, I went to find a pelvic health physio because I figured that if I didn't like who was the person that knew more, even if the education wasn't available to me in the fitness industry. So back the way back then, I started a partnership with Joe Murdoch, who owns a clinic in Sydney called the Physiotherapy Clinic, and we still partner today. So one of her teams coming in next week to do a research update for our team of trainers. And so that's where my journey kind of evolved from from having my son launching Body Beyond Baby, which was group exercise with childcare. Because whilst I didn't know what to do for myself physically, aside from what I knew, I did know how to go to the gym, and what I saw was other mums around me struggling, number one, to go to the gym, number two, to even get time out to be able to do that. So we launched with on-site nannies, and that was the start of the journey.

SPEAKER_01

It's such a vulnerable time in your life. I was the gym gal. Like I met my husband at the gym, he was a PT, I was doing a course, like a search reading fitness. You know, I'm very comfortable being fit, and your identity just shifts so much. And I always talk about it's my hunger for it that's shifted. So I'm 18 months post-partum. I'm still training every day, but a lot of it now, you know, some days it's just a very long walk, some days it's a circuit at home with my wireless. But that hunger to get into the gym is not there because sometimes I sometimes I crave time away from my son, and then sometimes I feel like I'm gonna miss him. And then it's a real identity thing, isn't it? And then fresh postpartum, you've got all those hormones, so it's it's such a journey. It's just it's so vital to have someone like you to guide women through this time. And you know, you yourself worked in the industry and you still questioned what do I do with my body now? So imagine how many of us are just clueless. Absolutely. Yeah, wonderful. Well, tell us a bit about your business, Mum Safe, and how it's helping so many mums throughout pregnancy, childbirth, and their postnatal recovery.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so Mum Safe is the evolution of my first business, which was called Body Beyond Baby. And we ran group, like I said, group exercise with childcare in the park. And throughout that journey, I launched a certification called Safe Return to Exercise. So we run a pre and postnatal certification for trainers. And at that time, I was thinking about do I want to license Body Beyond Baby? Do I want to franchise? And then eventually realized that I wanted to support other trainers to grow their own brand, but with a framework and a credibility around it. So Mum Safe Today looks like ongoing education for exercise professionals that work with mums. So when you work with a mum safe trainer, they don't only have one pre- and postnatal certification, which in some cases could have been done, I don't know, five years ago, ten years ago. They get to redo safe retent exercise as many times as they like. And we provide them with a monthly upskilling masterclass every single month, and we've got four years worth of extra content. So if you work with a mum safe trainer, she's probably got education on. Why say she? They, we do have some men, not so many, but we do. Um they may have education on endometriosis, perimenopause, menopause, wrist pain, pelvic pain, like they're gonna go deeper, trauma-informed care. It's deeper than only the initial pre- and postnatal certification, and we're making sure that they're upskilling and staying up to date with all the research because the courses that were done five years ago, they're not, I mean, yes, they're relevant and they're good, but there's so much new research. So, you know, mum safe is providing the exercise professionals that want to be known as and be the gold standard of pre and postnatal exercise in in the world, the tools and the support and also the business systems in order to do that. So, from a mum's perspective, if you're working with a mum safe trainer, you really do know that you're in very, very safe hands.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's so great. And it's such a big um demographic, isn't it? I feel like it's huge. Because I'm in it, but all I see are mums wanting to work out, and there is one gym in my area with crate. Like, I'd be in the gym every day if there was a crate at my gym, because he would love mixing with other kids. So yeah, we need to be supported in this time. We really need to.

SPEAKER_02

We do need to make sure though that all gyms that have crashes actually have education because just because they have a crash doesn't mean that their trainers are educated and pre- and postnatal.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Well, what does every mum or expectant mum need to know about safe exercises post-birth? Because I know that the hospital that I was at told me to go to something, but I either didn't have time or money and I didn't. And that's when I YouTube's the ab exercises. But what do we need to know?

SPEAKER_02

I think the biggest thing to know is that your body is postpartum. Uh, it's never gonna go back to what it was, so we can stop chasing the pre-baby body, which I feel like we'll talk about a little bit later on.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, but from a physical perspective, to understand that if we're talking early postpartum, we want to make sure that you go through a phase of, I call it rebuilding from the inside out rather than rehabilitation. So it's rebuilding from the inside out, making sure that you understand your pelvic floor, making sure that you understand your abdominal wall, knowing where your body is right now, and then choosing the appropriate exercise. And, you know, for some women, that rebuild from the inside out period could take six weeks, six months, six years even. And for others, they'll move through it really, really quickly. So I think one of the misconceptions is that you have to do gentle exercise for a really long time. A lot of the research now is saying that's not necessarily the case, both in pregnancy and postpartum. But what it does mean is that the individual mum and exercise professionals really need to understand the nuance. So if you're leaking, that's that's common, but it's not normal to live with. If you've got a heaviness in your pelvis, that can be common, but it's not normal to live with. Uh, and to understand, you know, around pelvic floor that it's not always a pain that you're gonna feel. So if you had pelvic pain or pubic sepsis pain or sciatic pain, that's a pain trigger. Whereas pelvic floor, abdominal wall, if you're going too hard, uh then those, you know, those muscles can be fatiguing and weakening over time, but they're just gonna feel a bit weird or a bit not right. And I think as new mums, we can go, oh, I've had a baby, it just doesn't feel the same, but it's fine. And it might be fine for the short term, but if it continues long term, maybe it might not be fine. But it could be fine if we understood the information and then gave her the tools. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Education. Education is everything. So it is. Look at me, 42 years old. Look, I didn't read any material because it I I love being a mum, but I was not like into it when I was pregnant. I'm like, I don't want to read it. I didn't listen to one podcast, I read one page of what to expect when you're expecting. I was like, this is so boring. Then I just went back to my Colleen Hoover books. But I was so under the impression that I had a planned C section. So I have a neuromuscular disorder, my pregnancy was difficult. I was on a walking stick, my muscles just all sort of stopped working properly, and I knew they would come back um straight, and they did straight away. But so I had to have a planned C section. So I was like, I don't have to worry, this is what I thought. I don't have to worry about the pelvic floor because I'm not pushing. I didn't realize it's about the carrying, it's not about the birth. So I was like, it's gonna return. Yeah, like I was like, it's gonna return completely normal. So now when I sneeze, I do the legs crossed and brace for impact. Yeah, yeah. It's not gonna happen to me with C-section. So something as simple as that, like, I didn't know. So education is everything. You don't know what you don't know.

SPEAKER_02

It really is. And you like exactly what you said, you still had a baby bouncing up and down on your pelvic floor for the last nine months. C-section or no c section.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, I know. It was just like the heaviness. It was the same as I didn't breastfeed and my boobs drooped because they got big for like three days. And I'm like, why didn't they just bounce straight back up? I mean, just today I was looking in the mirror and I was like, oh, they're higher than they were. That's great. I just know what everyone likes. Just in time for the next one so that I can droop again. Yeah, no, I love my body. I'm not talking about that. I'm being silly. But what are some long-term consequences of ignoring that postpartum recovery? What can we do? What's dangerous? How can we damage ourselves?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I want to like if we I you know, we use the words dangerous damage. I I want to, I guess, reduce fear. So anything that I share is, you know, it's these are the things that could happen. They don't have to happen. Um, so prolapse is a thing. So let's say a woman has a uh so 60 we know 60% of women when they think that they're drawing their pelvic floor up, they're actually pushing it out. So the pattern between their brain and their pelvic floor muscles is the wrong way around. So if they've just only read how to do it or verbally been taught how to do pelvic floor, it might be that you know you're sitting there breastfeeding, waiting for the kettle to boil, all those things, waiting for the traffic lights to change, or you go, oh, I should do my pelvic floor exercises.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

If you don't know and if you've not been assessed by a pelvic health or women's health physio to know that your pelvic floor is actually lifting and squeezing, 60% of women actually bear down when they're doing that. So if you then think, if you're someone who loves the gym, loves Pilates, loves strength training, women are doing more and more um intense exercise than ever before, which is absolutely awesome. We love it. And if you imagine that you've been doing your pelvic floor exercises, you go into the gym, you're pretty strong, you put a barbell on your back, your trainer or coach does something like brace, lift, tense, or in a Pilates class, you know, draw your pelvic floor well actually, and you're pushing out, now you're pushing out under load. Now, one or two times might be fine, but if you add the impact of that over time, then you can understand that you're weakening, you're pushing your pelvic floor out, and you know, the pelvic floor muscles are there to support the organs of the pelvis, which is the bladder, the uterus and the rectum rectum in a woman. And if the pelvic floor is not doing its job, those those organs could descend and could, in the worst case scenario, become a prolapse, which is where one of those organs falls into the walls of the vagina. In the worst case, sits on the outside. I say that's the work worst case, and I share this because prevention is key, not because I want everyone to go, oh, it's not about I'm gonna get this. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So prolapse, can that happen at any stage?

SPEAKER_01

I thought that was just during birth.

SPEAKER_02

No, it can happen. You can get a prolapse years postpartum. And you may also be so we've got this huge conversation now about perimenopause and menopause. We're being told to lift heavy, we're being told to jump train because it's good for our bones. Yes. But we've got this massive cohort of women that have never been given any pelvic floor education in pregnancy and postpartum. So now they've had babies and they've continued on their life. Maybe they, maybe they've got their movement pattern mixed up, maybe they don't, maybe they just, I don't know, maybe they had a very mild prolapse that no one picked up on, and that's fine because it's not symptomatic, so it's not bothering them. But then let's say we get to 45, 55, we're now strength training, there could be an impact on the fact that our pelvic floors have never been looked after. So if we can educate our younger women now, or the older women, or any age women that have had babies, and just get them to go and get a checkup with a pelvic health physio. You know, I work in some countries where they don't have pelvic health physios or they don't have access to them. And I know that it can be preventative for some people, like there's a cost and there's all the rest of it involved, but we do have access to this care. And if you're paying for a gym membership, then I believe you could pause your gym membership for two or three weeks, pay for your pelvic health physio, go back. So there are some funds you just got to choose where they're going.

SPEAKER_01

There are things there's always things where you're like, oh, I don't have the money right now. You've just gotten your Uber Eats, you've just you've booked your Botox. You know, you can find that money. No, it's so true, but we do also have a tendency to put ourselves last, you know, like I now buy clothes for my son rather than myself. So of course. So I will link all your links in the show notes. But so where does a woman go today if she wants to assess the pelvic por?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so we've actually got a really good database of pelvic health physios on the Mumsafe website. So if she goes to mumsafemovement.com, clicks on find a physio, then there's a huge database you can put your location in there.

SPEAKER_01

And if you're not gonna do that, I'll have to if I'm trying for number two. I better double check. Where are you based, Cranola?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, there's heaps of um great physios. We can link you up. There's also a really, really awesome Mumsafe trainer in Crenola.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, great. Yeah, all the best info and info on this podcast. I gotta say, I'm just almost booking appointments for myself after these interviews. Nice. Oh, that's really, really, really helpful. Jumping in with another message for my Sydney friends. If you're a pizza lover, you absolutely need to head out to Crenulla and visit my friends at Queen Margarita of Savoy for traditional Neapolitan pizza and other Italian classic dishes. With my Sicilian background, you know that I've travelled to Italy many times over the years. I've eaten pizza all over Italy, including in Naples, and I swear to everyone I meet that Queen Margarita is still my absolute fave. I like simple classic flavours, so I highly recommend the traditional margarita and the three cheese pizza. Hubby loves the prosciutto and the pork and fennel. I also have a soft spot for the truffle orangini. Check them out at Surf Road Cranella and the link in my show notes. You definitely will not be disappointed. I want to talk about something that's really sort of hot topic, and it probably has been for some time. It's that bounce back, and I I don't love it. I remember hating um I don't like the royal family to begin with, but when they they would give birth and then have to stand on the steps in high heels in a dress holding their baby. I mean, like, you know, I just picture what I wore on the way home from the hospital, and it wasn't. It was not that, was it? It wasn't that just picturing it now. It's so horrible. But it just feels like a lot of pressure. And I had a good chat with you when we first were booking this in. It was right when a male influencer had talked about women being lazy for not getting their bodies back or using motherhood as an excuse. And there's nothing we love more than someone without a vagina telling us about how to live, you know. But what what what are you seeing? You know, it's such a huge time on it takes such a huge toll on a woman's body, her emotions, her hormones, everything. What are you seeing in society? What would you like change? What what's your opinion on this whole bounce back culture after motherhood?

SPEAKER_02

It starts way before that, doesn't it? You know, we've got people commenting on women's bodies full stop. You know, there was a a post over Christmas about uh newspaper article about Tiffany Hall. She posted it this, you know, great photo of her in Bali. Um, and the only thing that was pulled out, I think the Daily Mail or somebody wasn't Daily Mail started commenting about her body, and there's all of these people like commenting, and it's you know, number one, where do we just get off commenting on women's bodies? Absolutely, yeah, yeah, and women, they were women tearing her apart in that, and it was absolutely disgusting. And then to add to that, you've got a man who's got no fucking clue about anything. I say that with love, talking to women about what they should or shouldn't do. I think the biggest thing is stop commenting on women's bodies and then removing the phrase get your pre-baby body back. And I talk about this in our pre and postnatal certification. We have a whole module on body image, and what the key message is that exercise professionals need, and I use the word need very, very purposely, need to stop having get my pre-baby body back as a goal. Or assuming that women are walking into the gym to get their pre-baby body back.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Because it's simply fueling the fact that women have been taught for so long that her self-worth is wrapped up in the size and shape of her body, and that on top of adjusting to motherhood, keeping a keeping a baby alive, living on no sleep, that one of our priorities should be what our body looks like rather than what it's done and how amazing it is, and the fact that it birthed a human.

SPEAKER_01

It's so damaging. And I'm lucky that I follow mainly, you know, very nice female influences and oh you know, we just people in the media on my socials that I'm seeing just beautiful, compassionate content. I'm not seeing all that, but you know, I obviously must follow some news pages because I see things like that pop up and they trigger me. But it's so funny how it's a systemic problem in society because I will admit that I as a woman used to have that view that if a woman gained weight after giving birth, that she gave up, she no longer cares about herself. And now I realize, you know, like I'm still fit, but I'm just not who I was. And that's not a failure. I haven't failed. And I think there's some sort of shame. I remember when I would feel very liberated when I would get rid of outfits that I had in my wardrobe from 10 years ago. I I did that recently, like outfits that I wore when I first started going out with my husband. I was in the gym, sometimes twice a day. I was 31, lived with my parents, didn't have stress. Why would I think in my 40s that I can wear those backless things that, you know, like without a bra or a strapless bra that I used to wear? That's not who I am. And holding those clothes in my closet made me feel some honestly, it was a feeling of shame that would come up that oh, you've failed, Steph. You're being a bit lazy because you're not back in that. So I've very much tried to not get my life back to what it was or say wording like that or get my body back. I'm just embracing mum Steph, new Steph, current Steph, and just doing the best with what I can at the moment because it just, yeah, it puts pressure on me. But yeah, isn't that funny how me as a woman used to think that about women? So that's a problem in society.

SPEAKER_02

It is a problem. But do you think when you look back, and I can self-reflect on this myself, was the exercise that you did and the food that you ate back then the healthiest version of you?

unknown

No!

SPEAKER_01

I'm healthier now. I am so I would have smashed these protein bars that, excuse me, my language would make me do stinky fards. I would have these, oh, what's that ingredient? Those powders that are like toxic colours to help burn things. Because I remember I was in Bali just laying around the pool and put on weight. So I came back and I'm happy. I was unwell. I wasn't well. I have such a gut-friendly, wonderful diet right now that I am my healthiest version. Isn't that funny that you say that? That is so true.

SPEAKER_02

When I look back, I at my smallest and my leanest, and where I got the most praise, I was going through a really hard time in life. I was incredibly anxious. Uh, and then even pre that, I didn't, I didn't eat enough. I used to study the amount of calories that were in the back of, I don't know, brightness. Like compulsive. There's no fucking calories in rice crackers anyway. My fitness. I was over-exercising. Yeah. And I think it's interesting because on the flip side, there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to change your body composition. So this is what we come up against. It's, you know, we shame fit women for being fat, we shame fit women for losing weight. So what we really need to get to is a place where women understand that their self-worth is not wrapped up in the size and shape of their body. Yes. And that the desire to change their body is not fuelled by thinking that changing their body will give them something else other than I'd like my body to be leaner because I could run faster, or I'm going to experiment, or I'm going to do these things. And maybe I just want to alter my diet, eat more whole foods, cut out the rubbish, and potentially there'll be a body composition change with that. But when it's pressure to look and feel a certain way, either externally or internally, that's the work that we all need to do as women to try and then move on to the next phase of our journey.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. And I just recorded a solo episode on manifestation that you would think would not be related at all. But what I was talking about was where, you know, like you'll be manifesting the thing, the house, the money. But I said, you gotta think about why do you want those? What's the emotion that comes attached to them? So, you know, does the the job or the house make you feel secure? So it's like you were saying, don't think about the the why do you want that number on the scales? Is it it'll make you feel a certain way? And if it's that it'll make you feel like you fit in, that's a problem. That's a problem. You need to be your healthier self to run around with your kids, to wake up and feel energy. That is my number one priority right now. Because I think too, with a lot of women in Sydney, especially, we're starting later to have kids. So I'm, you know, 42, just had my first, working towards a second one. And I may have just uh ticked over into perimenopause. Literally, the week I released a perimenopause episode, my period completely changed and went for 10 days, and I always get them for five days. Yeah. I've my That sucks. I've had my period since 1997, and it's always five days, heavy for days one and two, light, and then I had 10 straight days of heavy bleeding, and I was like, oh fuck, I'm I jinxed myself with the perimenopause a minute. So we're up against immense changes and challenges. So removing that shame and the pressure is just vital. Or you're just you're just doing yourself a disservice, aren't you?

SPEAKER_02

We really are, and it's not only affecting us, it's affecting our future generations. So we're raising young people, and uh, you know, it's you know, when we think about generational trauma and things that happen, it's like we have to heal what is in ourselves so we don't move it forward. So if you are someone who's looking in the mirror at the stomach or commenting on food, your kids are picking up on that male and female, and they're you know, the pressures, you know, we like to think or I like to think the pressures are getting less, but they're not. I have a 15-year-old who feels pressure. Um, and I, you know, when you see all these different beautiful bikini bodies on the beach these days, like wearing next to nothing, and then you've got social media that have got, and you think there's a level of we think that there's more body confidence confidence out there, but we'd be remiss to think that people are not still struggling um through life. And for the older women, when did that stop? Like surely we get to a point in our lives where we just stop having the food noise and stop worrying about it and be a little bit more free.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but when does it? So I listened to another uh podcaster, she who was going to the beach with herself, her daughters, her mum, and her grandmother, who has now since passed, right? And the grandmother was maybe 80s or 90, and she was like, Come to the beach with us. She's like, Oh no, no one wants to see my body in a swimsuit. And the host was crying, going, because I always pictured in my head, oh, I want some what over 65, then I'll stop worrying, then I'll stop, you know. And maybe you never do if you don't shift the mindset. So you've got to do the work. Podcast host was like, how sad that this woman, and when she was recording it, the grandmother's still alive, has said no to a day of joy and you know, memories with her family for fear of how she will look. The woman's now died. That could have been a core memory to take with her and the grandchildren. And I catch myself all the time. No, I can't do that. I uh I'll be due for fake tan. I haven't shaved my legs, you know. I'm in my luteur face, so I'll be a bit swollen. I do it all the time. Instead of just saying, yeah, you know, like seven-year-olds deaf would be like, I'm coming to the beach, great, that sounds fun. And so when did we choose, you know, how we look over joy? It's it's so it's sad, it's upsetting. And when will it end if we don't shift it now? Absolutely. Yeah, but you're right, it's definitely in society. Look back at, you know, like uh Brittany Spears and Posh Spice. Posh Spice was called Porky Spice and then Skeletal Spice. You're either too fat or too thick, you're never perfect. There are this page I follow, and I can't think of her name now, but they publicly shame the comments. Oh, I've seen them. Yes, I love them. I love them, but then it makes me sad too. Should I be looking at them? Like, and it'll be this is what women said about Margot Robbie. I mean, we're picking women who are just so stunning, and everyone is so mid and just commenting, like, oh, it's so overrated, so a waist is too thick, and oh my god, like how does where do these people have time to just spend commenting on other people's bodies anyway? Like there's so much shit to do that doesn't include like yeah, it's um there's so much pressure on us. But funnily enough, I thought it was just women. Funnily enough, because I, you know, with celebrities, you you know, they would be pro-dad bod. They don't get the the slaughter that we do. But funnily enough, it's happening with boys too. One of my best friends has um uh 10-year-old son, and he's getting bullied and body shamed at school. And oh my god, did that make me so upset? I thought, I would figure that young and even as a boy, you would be immune to that, and apparently not.

SPEAKER_02

You wonder then, though, what's going on in that household though? Like, where does that come from? Like, what is that child on the receiving end of to then take that into a school environment? Because these kids are not. I I like to believe that anyone saying anything mean about anyone else, it's it's it's about them. So when but when kids are doing it, who's being mean to the kid that the kid then needs to then try and be mean to someone else to make themselves feel better?

SPEAKER_01

No, that's true, and it all comes down to compassion and education, and bringing it back to that male influencer who said that I don't hate him, I don't hate anyone because what did he grow up hearing in his home that made him think that that's what he should be saying?

SPEAKER_02

Or and and he's a grown-up now, so he gets to take accountability.

SPEAKER_01

True, 100%. So, but again, as I said, I even had that view. So he needs to go on some sort of education course of what women go through with emotions and how you can just be standing there cutting a piece of fruit and then burst into tears, and like it's just it's it's so much you go through. So, yeah, we've got to lead with a bit of compassion and definitely education. So, what you're doing is absolutely a service to the community. Um, you seem to be so incredibly busy as a career-different mum. What are some ways you take time to look after yourself and what is something you'll be doing in the next week to fill up your cup?

SPEAKER_02

We got chickens no longer sound sorry. We got chickens. Um, I don't think that fills, well, it does fill my cup. I have this vision of living on like we're on just under an acre up on the Gold Coast. Um, so I have this vision. I keep saying to my husband, can we get goats now? Can we get this now? No, not really thinking about the fact that it actually adds to what I have to do in a day. Um, but I really enjoy going and seeing the chickens. Like, so my day, you know, my day doesn't start, like I didn't start work until we started talking and generally doesn't start till about 10 a.m. now, which I know is a huge luxury. But it's I get up at 10 past five, I go to the gym, um, I'm at the stage where I can leave my kids at home, even if my husband is not at the house, which is awesome. Then I take the kids to school, I walk the dog, I have my breakfast, and then I start work. So I've battled with that for a really, really long time. But slower mornings are something that I'm doing for myself now, rather than just trying to do all the things and get stuck into work at 8:30. And then I still get frustrated sometimes and I'm like, oh fuck, it's 10 o'clock already and I've not done anything. Yeah. But I know it's good for me. So permission to be a bit slower is what I'm trying. Oh, a slower morning.

SPEAKER_01

Trying is the ultimate word. Yeah. No, I was due for my strength workout this morning. Um, went to bed a little bit late last night and you know, felt tired when I woke up, and I was like, I'm not gonna push myself. So I did 15 minutes of just doing steps and like some sort of movement to get things flowing. Uh and I feel good. I would have felt tired and rushed trying to get in, you know, get the makeup done to get the recording done. I love a slow morning now. I think it's such a gift to yourself. But you'd be surprised how many of my guests have said similar things about chickens and the gardens. And I was like, oh, the third guest. I like that.

SPEAKER_02

My friends keep sending me there's a reel that's talking about henopause. It's like women get to this point in life, but they get chickens, and I'm like, shit.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Damn it. She's that lady. She's become chicken lady. I love that so much. Well, um, keep an eye out on socials. I can't just can't wait to see what other barnyard animals appear in your yard. I think it's gonna no, it's really kind of the um the goal, isn't it? To sort of live off the land and you know, you know why you like going out and seeing the chickens? Because you're in the present moment. I am you're so right. Yeah, it's it's again, it's the outcome. What do you get from that?

SPEAKER_02

You get in nature, you ground, you get yes, love all those things.

SPEAKER_01

Jen, you're a powerhouse woman. I've enjoyed our chat so much, and what you've you've told us has been so beneficial. And I'll link everything for everyone in the show notes. My God, everyone, go check the pelvic floor. I can't believe how important it is. Thank you so much for your time today. Thanks for having me. Everyone, please do something in the next week to fill up your cup. Thank you again for being here today. I hope that this episode brought some value to you. I look forward to your company in the next episode, and please connect with me on socials to keep this love fest going. Feel free to DM me with any questions at all.

SPEAKER_00

And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a loved one or in your Insta stories. And if you're feeling super generous, a review on Apple Podcasts would be greatly appreciated. I'll catch you in the next episode.