Can I Get a Refill?

Ageless & Unapologetic: Redefining Beauty, Visibility & Power with Kate Bell ✨

• Steph Bruno-Newton • Season 3 • Episode 68

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If you’ve ever felt like the world starts to look past women as they age… this conversation will shift something deep within you.

In this powerful episode, I’m joined by Kate Bell - one of Australia’s most iconic models, whose career has spanned over four decades. At 57, Kate is not slowing down… she’s leading a cultural shift.

From fronting major campaigns for brands like Myer, Bonds, and Nike, to becoming a voice for visibility, authenticity, and the evolving face of beauty - Kate is redefining what it means to be seen.

But beyond the fashion industry, this conversation goes deeper.

We explore the truth about ageing in a world obsessed with youth…
What it really takes to stay grounded in your worth…
And how to cultivate a sense of self that isn’t dependent on external validation.

With a lifelong foundation in yoga philosophy and a deeply reflective inner world, Kate shares wisdom on:

  • Embracing natural beauty and authenticity 
  • Navigating identity through different life stages 
  • The power of visibility for women over 40 
  • Letting go of societal expectations and coming home to yourself 

This is an honest, expansive and empowering conversation for any woman who is ready to feel seen - at every stage of her life.

Have a listen to our chat, or watch the full video on YouTube here.

Thanks for tuning in today to The Can I Get a Refill? Podcast, and be sure to jump on my website (below) to download a free 33 page eBook on 7 Steps to Protect Your Energy & Fill Up Your Cup. 

You cannot pour from an empty cup, so I’ve designed a guide to help you take care of yourself, in order to uplevel your life. Download it today and make yourself a priority in 2026!

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SPEAKER_00

I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which this episode is being recorded and pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Trade Islander peoples today.

SPEAKER_01

Jumping in here to talk directly to my Sydney friends about one of my absolute favourite cafes, Pilgrims Crenolla. Now located in their gorgeous new location opposite South Crenolla Park, with expanded indoor and outdoor seating, including pet-friendly tables out front, and delicious food, juice, and coffee. The menu is full of wholesome, vegger-friendly eats that feel both nostalgic and nourishing. Expect brecki wraps, vibrant salads, smoothies, fresh juices, and some of the best plant-based sandwiches going. I strongly recommend the corn fritters and the chai shake, which is definitely big enough for two. Check them out on Insta and be sure to visit when you're next in Crenola. A podcast for ambitious women who are tired of pouring from an empty cup, but still want to grow, evolve, and build a life they're proud of. Through a mix of comforting solo episodes and inspiring conversations with industry professionals, authors, wellness experts, and entrepreneurs, we talk about what it really looks like to refill your cup while up-leveling your life. Topics include mental, emotional, and physical wellness, hormonal health, manifestation, career and finance, boundaries, self-trust, and redefining success on your own terms. Hosted by me, Steph Bruno Newton, each weekly episode is designed to motivate, ground, and empower you to take care of your needs and go after the life you actually want. Pour yourself a cup, take a breath, and let's refill it together. Today's guest is someone who is not only an icon in the Australian fashion industry, but a woman who is helping to redefine what beauty, ageing, and visibility really look like. Kate Bell has had a modeling career spanning over four decades, working with major global brands like Nike, YSL, Clarence, and my personal favourite, the Beauty Chef. And becoming one of the first mature models in Australia to headline campaigns across beauty, underwear, and sport. What I love most about Kate is not just her presence in front of the camera, it's what she represents. At 57, Kate is part of a powerful cultural shift, challenging outdated narratives around aging and showing women that they don't become less visible, less valuable, or less powerful with time. They become more. Beyond modeling, Kate is also a writer, a longtime yoga practitioner, and someone who brings a deeply grounded, thoughtful perspective to conversations around beauty, identity, and self-worth. I truly enjoyed my chat with Kate so, so much. It's so evident in my energy throughout the chat. This is such a rich and expansive conversation, and I'm so excited for you to hear it. Thanks for tuning in again to the Can I Get a Refill Podcast. Be sure to jump on my website, www.cannegetareefill podcast.com.au, linked in the show notes to download your free 33-page ebook on seven steps to protect your energy and fill up your cup. As I always say, you cannot pour from an empty cup, so I've designed this guide to help you take care of yourself in order to up level your life. Download it today to make yourself a priority. Okay, now let's jump in. Hello, my cup fillers, and welcome back to the Can I Get a Refill Podcast. As just promised, we are very lucky today to be joined by Kate Bell. Kate, welcome to the podcast. Oh, thanks for having me, Steph. It's so lovely to have you. You have such beautiful energy. I always thought you did, but it's so nice to connect with you in person. And for those who know, I've referenced many times that I used to work for the beauty chef for many years with the lovely Carla Oates, who you know quite well. And your face is so familiar to me because you were used in so many of our campaigns. So I was so excited to connect with you and have you on here today. Um and you you know Carla quite well, don't you? Yeah, yeah, I've known Carla for years.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I really appreciate what you're doing too, Steph. Like, yeah, no, seriously. I just reading your bio and and you know, the the bit about the voice, like you know, you that you felt like you've been silenced, and this is why you do the podcast. And I think women, all women, really resonate with that. So I think that's why we've got this month, Caitlin. Look, they're so prominent. That's why we're doing all of this, you know. We're just changing and and putting our narrative out there because, and that's what we'll be talking about today, but you know, we have been under this other narrative, and you know, we've been a bit mind-controlled. So the fact that you're doing what you're doing, I really do appreciate.

unknown

Really?

SPEAKER_02

That is so kind conversation.

SPEAKER_01

And you had such a lovely email chat with me, too, where you no one's no one's ever done that. You actually came back to me and were asking me, why did you start this podcast? And you really wanted to know for your for your own benefit, which was really moving. I really liked that, and I had to go back and remember why I started it. But I really love the concept of podcasts because you you sort of take the reins and can express whatever you want. Whereas I used to do singing and I I yeah, I said this to my husband the other day. I felt like I was always waiting for someone to hand me an opportunity with singing. You know, like you send your demo CDs out, you know, Bacmen CDs are a thing, to record labels hoping to get a deal. And now it's like with podcasting, you know, I do all of it. You know, like you, you don't have to wait for permission anymore. You could just, it's you know, like modern society is a little hard because everything's online and it can be overwhelming and overstimulating, but it's such an opportunity out there for us to express ourselves.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely, absolutely, and to work collaboratively because this top-down sort of system where only, you know, you're talking about the music industry and stuff, like only one person was going to tell you that, you know, one person give you this opportunity, and now it's just like, no, it's like you know, we can create a collaborative space, and I think that's that's what women are doing, you know, and that's why we're lifting each other up, and the collaboration is so important.

SPEAKER_01

And now that I don't work that job at the Beauty Shep, I really realize how much I miss collaborating with people. And I love doing my solo episodes and my blogs because they're cathartic, they're therapeutic, but I love connecting with like-minded guests. You see my energy shift, and my husband comes home, like, oh, you're in a good mood. You must you must have interviewed someone you like today. Like it really lifts my mood. It's a really conversations are powerful and it's really beautiful to share them. So okay, what a lovely intro. I'm feeling so good right now. Let's jump into it because I have a lot of things I want to ask you. You've had such an interesting career. I've been modeling for four decades. How has your relationship with beauty and identity evolved over that time? Because, you know, I would imagine when you started, the beauty industry was rather different to what it is now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, well, the beauty standards were sort of skinny, white, and young. And that's it. Yeah. And that's that's pretty much it. So all of those things sat very heavily on me as soon as I sort of figured that out. Because we're we were all so similar, we were all skinny white females, there was such a competition. And so that whole thing of like, you know, wanting to be the prettiest girl in the room, because you there wasn't much else to be. And I think as a young model, that whole thing of you'd you'd find little bits about yourself that weren't what you considered perfect. And I think young people I know are doing this also with social media and stuff, but I think younger people are are also like just tossing that whole idea out of like just perfectionism and embracing the fact that they are who they are. I think we can really learn, older women can really learn from from that from that frame of mind.

SPEAKER_01

So yes, Kate, I actually look at some young women with a bit of envy and I'm proud of them and I'm happy for them, but I'm like, man, I wish I allowed myself that permission to love my body at every size when I was young. And it wasn't my fault because that wasn't the society I was in at that stage. And you know, um, what you said is so interesting to me because I don't think that's just modeling. I think women were always pitted against each other. I saw something the other day of two celebrities. Who was it? Were they singers? I can't even remember now. Was it Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera? Maybe, but they were like, that's what the media industry always did. They always pitted women against women because it was interesting fodder for, you know, tabloids and that. But we're we're seeing through that bullshit now. We don't want to see that. That energy doesn't make us feel good about ourselves. We would rather see people, you know, like now female celebrities are friends with each other. Jennifer Lawrence and Emma Stone are building each other up and encouraging, like, we want to see that. But it was always, I was in dancing and I always found it very much the same. Very, my husband was in footy, and they had a real team culture, and I'm not a very good team player. And I, you know, with dancing, it was very much I was in Stedford's every weekend against my friends, and it was very competitive. And you were, do you did you find that with the modeling industry that the aspiration was to be the best?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, exactly. And and your question of identity and beauty, and it was sort of all one thing, and yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I your identity was wrapped up in how you looked. Is that how you felt, especially as a model?

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely, because because women really at that state at that point, I mean, I just come out of a um a family where my mother's still in a very traditional role in every way, you know, emotionally, like mentally, uh physically, she's she's in that space, and that's great, and that serves her, and she's happy, and that's all fine. But a a woman my age just came out of that situation where women who were working could create a life, not have children, all these sort of different different paths that you could choose. So I am of that gen X generator who had the choices, and I think modeling has really been this vehicle for me, well, to see the world for sure, but to sort of be very up close and personal with with myself as a person, because yes, it's about this, but on the job, it's about how do you then relate to everyone else around you because they're new every time, they're new every you know, every casting you go to, they're new, everyone's new all the time. So every single time you have to show up, dig deeper in yourself to be unique amongst all these sort of same, same people.

SPEAKER_01

Um almost like you you can't switch off, you always have to be on, almost like a performing, isn't it? Because it's not like a nine-to-five job where you're coming in and seeing the same colleagues every day and you're sitting at the same desk and you can just no, you're having to almost like prove yourself each time.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, yes, but prove yourself almost with yourself as well. Like, why am I feeling self-conscious here? Why am I not feeling confident here? Why is this person responding to me like this? Like all the time, all the time, these questions. And it can be and was a very um fraught situation of just like wanting to please everyone. And as I've grown into myself as a human, I suppose, it's like more and more like it comes at you, but you're able to sort of sit back and witness your responses and make them better. And so now turning up on a job, it's divine because I'm actually able to hold the space for everybody else. I'm able to really witness other people on the job, see their work, see, you know, see in their heart, have these little sort of, you know, snippets of conversation and really relate to people. And I think that's why I'm still here because I honestly, I honestly love that. Like I honest, yeah, it's a different people all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I now get the glow you have. You have a glow. I don't think it's just the Beauty Chef products. You have a you have a glow. Let me ask you, we'll stick with the modeling thing. You're at the forefront of changing how women are over 40 are seen in fashion and media. What do you feel we've been getting wrong about aging? And what truth are you here to show instead?

SPEAKER_02

So I'm not here to do anything but just turn up and work. That's all I want to do. I want to keep working until I don't want to keep working anymore. But I think we've just been in this bandwidth of how we see women. And to go right right back, how modeling and acting started, like how sort of women in the media started. It was like show girls and good time girls, and they were, you know, we won't say that the payword, but they weren't women necessarily that were good women. Good women. And so that's how it started with modeling and acting. And then, you know, in the 50s with advertising and the whole sort of capitalization of the world, it was men working. So men were making the decisions about who what sort of women they were going to use in advertising, and it's just gone on from there. And I've been in it for 40 years, and I have seen changes and big changes in say the last 15 years, but I still feel that the bandwidth is even though there are tons more women in places of being able to choose differently, different aesthetic, different conversations, their mindset is still in this male mindset of what makes a perfect woman. And I really think that we're just tired of it. We're just we're tired, we're tired of it, you know.

SPEAKER_01

And we're tired of having to explain why we're tired of it. It's like we're complaining. But it's so age-focused. Every article about a woman has always been, you know, like Kate, 57. And I'm like, you know, when I always read magazines, I'm like, why do we have to put their age in everything? I don't understand why you can't just say their name. It's like you have to put the age to decide how you feel about them in the context of that story. So if she's with a younger man or if she's doing, you know, you know, like remember when Carly Mano did the spinning around film clip with her gold hot pants and they're like, oh, she's so brave. She was 34. I was at my peak in my mid-30s. Like, why was that? But it was so not abnormal then. I was like, oh yeah, like we were so conditioned. And I just feel like we're so damned if you do, damned if you don't as a woman.

SPEAKER_02

I feel like it's a it's a male, it's a male headspace, but it's all male headspace. It's like from the freaking 50s.

SPEAKER_01

But it is, Kate. And when it's women who are saying this, I'm always like, I feel sadder because they're saying it because they've been conditioned in a patriarchal society where it's they think they should comment on a woman's appearance. That's why I do always find it's older women more than younger women that comment on it. I find younger women don't comment on other women's appearances. I think they've learned this makes us uncomfortable because then it's going to be projected back at us. There's a sisterhood now.

SPEAKER_02

It becomes more to a woman than just what she looks like. And I and I think that's the exciting thing about being where I'm at with modeling is that it is no longer about how I look, it's about my way of life, and that becomes the interesting uh thing.

SPEAKER_01

I always say if I'm with if the most interesting thing about someone is how they look or how much money they have, they're not very interesting. So I like the fact that the most interesting about me, uh thing about me, I think, is what comes out of my mouth because that's never gonna change unless, you know, I get dementia. But I'm saying, like, I'm always in control of that. So I feel a sort of uh calmness and a comfort in it doesn't matter if my appearance changes. I like the things that come out of my mouth. That makes me interesting. So yeah, there's like you say, like there's been a lot of growth, but there's so there's so much yet to be done. We're still just so judged. It's like I just feel women are so damned if you do, damned if you don't, especially in the public eye of any image of a famous woman. It's um either she's too plastic or she's too wrinkly. So I'm like, you cannot win. And I just feel like it's no one's business whether I choose to inject things into my face or not, you know, like, and I love when people are more natural like yourself. You have this beautiful natural look, but that doesn't mean that I want that for myself either. And I just think we all have the autonomy, you know, that autonomy over our bodies to what we choose. And it's it's not up for debate what I do with my appearance on my bodies. And I'm like, but why do people think that they have that permission to narrate or you know, commentate on other women's appearances, both male and female, do so it's um this maybe work to be done.

SPEAKER_02

It ties into a another question that you were going to you you you will get to, but maybe it's something to do with like women like playing, they like changing things up and playing with their appearance, you know. And that's a good point. Yeah, and I think in in in terms of like beauty and stuff, like we can change our we can change our hair, we can change our eye. I mean, my eyebrows have been like I've had two microblading of two different shapes, and then I had them completely lasered off. So I've played with my face in you know, in in to just have a different sort of it's your canvas for your art going on. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

No, I really like the point you make because I just had a flashback to me and my primary school best friend doing dress-ups and her mum taking photos of us. That's really part of our play, isn't it? Doing dress-ups more than boys. For some women, for some women, find it really fun. It is fun, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I like that. Yeah, it's like um, let us just do what we want to do. It's part of our process, yeah. And I'm gonna change my mind next week. It's like cool. Exactly. So I think what you're saying is you're not here, and I love that response, Kat. You're actually not here to say anything or shit, you're just here to show up as yourself. Yeah. Yeah, okay. I like that. I like that so much. Well, you've achieved several firsts in Australian campaigns for mature models. Did you ever feel like you were pushing against resistance? And what has it taken to internally stay the course?

SPEAKER_02

For those particular jobs, like the rebel was sport, beauty was mire, and underwear was for bonds. And it does just seem so shocking that it was such a big deal for a woman over 40 to be in a Rundes, to be in a beauty campaign. Oh my god, you know, to to just play some sport. And for those, for those campaigns, no, there was no resistance at all. I felt I was finally sort of like, here's me, and this is what we're doing, and and we're making headway in this industry. But prior to those things and in and around those sorts of campaigns, there was just a ton of ageism that had laid on me, and that's what sort of got me to start writing.

SPEAKER_01

Um You did. Okay, so what are you talking from like in the industry, like casting agents, going for jobs, or more public feedback?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so the the tokenism of the work that I got for a good sort of I don't know, maybe a good 20 years, the tokenism of of it, like I was the mother, or you know, as I got older, I was the grandmother and mum chest. Yeah, the mum put in a box and the and the and the low barn and like all these sorts of very tokenistic and sort of insulting. I mean, not there's not anything insulting about being a mum or a grandma, but why couldn't I also No, but it's saying that's who you were, you had no choice, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Why couldn't I just be there as a woman? And I and I really felt that. And then I'd get sort of, you know, I'd get the assistant makeup artist, and um you'd you'd have the photographers sort of clamoring to shoot the beautiful young 20-year-old and sort of you know, a few frames on you, and then you know, this there still is this uh I've been talking about it at Fashion Week and stuff, and the last Australian Fashion Week it was better. Um, I did see a bit of a change, and also because there are a lot more female photographers backstage. I love that. Yeah, that makes a difference. It really does, but the male photographers were just Pathetic the way that you know, like these middle-aged men just vying for these, you know, young beauties' attention. It was just like, you know, it was ridiculous. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I I went for a walk the other day in Crenola and saw an old man photographing the cheerleaders through the fence who were rehearsing for the upcoming NRL game. My husband filmed him to show. I'm like, are we still doing things like that? Like, are you going home to pleasure yourself to these photos? And I'm like, are you? Have you no shame? He saw me walk past. And I'm like, oh god. So, yeah, that's interesting. Okay, so you probably felt a bit bit of a token and a bit pigeonholed there. I see that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and and plus, do you think still? Oh no, no.

SPEAKER_01

No.

SPEAKER_02

No, I um I'm pretty much in a space that without having tickets on myself, but I have been carving out, and it's empowering because I'm being booked for yeah, the life that I represent. And I'm being booked, not because of my age, but because of my way of being. And that way of being is only because I've had the whole, you know.

SPEAKER_01

But you're magnetic. When I see images of you, you're magnetic. Like your eyes go to you. And I don't think that's age specific. I think that's you specific. Um, I just want to point out how you felt the need to say, I don't have tickets on myself when pointing out what you've done. A man wouldn't say that, Kate. You know what I mean? Like, see how and I do that all the time. Like, oh, not to toot my own horn. Fucking toot your horn. Like, have tickets on yourself. Like, you've done something good, point it out. I don't care anymore. You know, like I know there are people that think that about me, and I'm like, it doesn't matter because yeah, be unapologetic about your success. You have carved out that path for yourself.

SPEAKER_02

Over the last month, I've been at nine o'clock at night, I've been sort of casting for representation in London. I I did five, and the first couple, they they they just sort of said, Okay, Kate, so tell us a bit about yourself and what you've been doing. And it was and it was just the whole, the whole, it just really threw me. It was like far out. What have I been doing? And the being able to like especially at 9 p.m. My mind's just shutting off at 9 p.m. Like, you know, not set almost where do I start, but that whole thing that we've just been talking about was like, oh, okay, I guess I'm I guess I'm gonna start talking about saying, oh well, you know, like it's hard, it can be hard to sell yourself. Yeah, yeah. It was and that, like that's what I mean about modeling, continuing, continuing to make me up close and personal with myself because I thought I was doing really cool. I thought, oh, I've got this, you know, this life thing that's, you know, like I'm I'm on top of it all. And then I get situations like that where I'm so nervous, and then I'm back for being, you know, makes me feel really good hearing you say that because it is that really affirming thing that life is nonlinear.

SPEAKER_01

And I always say that, you know, like how I talk about my personal growth, and I'm like, I thought I was past that. And I'm like, but it dips, it dips all the time. It's not like you're past something, things will come up all the time, and it's about catching yourself out, isn't it? Yeah, that is so funny. You make me feel better about myself hearing that because it does. It's um, it's not a final destination growth, it's that journey where it's up and it's down. Yeah. Oh, I love that so much. Yeah, I don't think I could sell myself at 9 p.m. I hate that question, too, of tell us about yourself and what you've done. It's like I hate that. It's like I love interviewing people and like I try to avoid that question as much as possible. Because when I've been on podcasts, I'm like, oh, I gotta talk about myself now. And it's like I like it in the moment, but that first initial of telling people why they should listen to you, I'm like, I can't do it. I'm not a salesperson. I'm just gonna.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's so hard. Oh, that's so interesting. Jumping in with another message for my Sydney friends. If you're a pizza lover, you absolutely need to head out to Crenella and visit my friends at Queen Margarita of Savoy for traditional Neapolitan pizza and other Italian classic dishes. With my Sicilian background, you know that I've traveled to Italy many times over the years. I've eaten pizza all over Italy, including in Naples, and I swear to everyone I meet that Queen Margarita is still my absolute fave. I like simple classic flavours, so I highly recommend the traditional margarita and the three cheese pizza. Puppy loves the prosciutto and the pork and fennel. I also have a soft spot for the travel orangini. Check them out at Surf Road Cranella and the link in my show notes. Definitely will not be disappointed. This is this is a bit of a bit of a spicy question, but I want to get your take as an insider. Do you think that the beauty industry ever actually wants women to feel confident, or does it rely on us constantly feeling like we need fixing? Because in a way, we are consumers, aren't we? And if we feel like something's lacking, we might purchase something to make us feel part of something.

SPEAKER_02

Look, you know, we live in the capitalist society that we do, and there will always be another and more. But at the same time, I think it also does get back to what we were talking about before that women enjoy the play of beauty, and so many beauty brands are started by women, and they honestly believe, and they've put so much time and effort into creating this product, and they honestly believe from their hearts that it will be everything you your skin needs, and so I believe them. I I meet them and I believe them, and their products are beautiful, there's a ton out there, like the one product might be great for that skin, or one you know what I mean, and you might have them as your backups and then as your new ones. Yeah, if we approach it as a sort of a perspective of play, and also being loyal to the brands that are speaking to us, like especially for me, if they're speaking to me, then they're speaking my language, they're yes, but you know, this whole thing of agelessness and timelessness and all this rubbish. It's it's just it's just really old and tired. And I think if they just just just speak to us as women and and then we'll approach the beauty industry in a playful and exploratory way. Um, and and and find out about the brands that you're buying, things that are important to you. Are they backing those? Are who are their major shareholders, like the big ones? Who where does your money go? Like, I think they're more the questions that you need to ask.

SPEAKER_01

It's yeah, that's true. And I've sort of been on that whole um more natural journey of not having endocrine disruptors and trying to, you know, spend a little bit more and buy more natural where I can, and that just makes me feel better. Like, I haven't worn perfume in years. I wear like essential oils now, and that just you know, not that I don't miss my Dolce and Gabbana light blue, but it it makes me feel better doing things like that. But I like that what you say about looking to the company and I do like so you know, something like Carla with a beauty chef, for instance, creating that because her and her children had eczema. Like I love those things that start organically where you're trying to create a solution rather than how am I gonna make money. I find that I align with those brands more because I feel like they're not just trying to take my money, they're trying to create solutions for your problem.

SPEAKER_02

So yes, yes, yes. And and a lot of brands, like especially the big brands, just to turn away from a brand because it's like, oh, that's so generic, or that's the price point is, you know, I'm not going to be interested in it either being too high or too low or whatever. But they also have all different sorts of products. And I found that a, you know, a number seven lip liner was super fantastic. But perhaps I wouldn't do another thing in that range. But it's so I think it's that whole thing of like women being a bit bow birds and just discovering and finding different things that work for them.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, and you really everyone knows what their favorites are, and then it's that really devastating thing when they ever discontinue them, and you're like, oh no, I've got to go through and figure out what my new one is. I've been using this for 20 years. You do, you get really um emotionally tied to your favorite products. But I really like your take on that, Kate. I really like that how you keep repeating that uh, you know, women like to play. And you know, like for instance, I'm sitting on the couch last night thinking, I'm thinking for the podcast tomorrow, it's a bold lip and a hair up day. Like I love that to me. You know, I didn't used to film them, and now that I film them, it's fun. Like it's fun playing around with the hair and the makeup and the and I might just be wearing a black t-shirt a lot of the time, but I I like sort of reflecting how I'm feeling in that day. You know, if it's a more personal thing and it'd be less makeup, hair out. Like that's the thing with fashion.

SPEAKER_02

That's why I think it is like, you know, it's not just self-expression thing. And it's also not just a business thing, it's actually a form of expression. And I've seen it in my mother, you know, hasn't worked a lot out of the home, but is the most one of the most stylish women I know. Just this innate sense of like dressing for how she feels for the occasion, for and then trying all all different sort of styles and yeah, just having like again, just this sort of playfulness and and yeah. I mean, I lie awake at night figuring out outfits, like I love it.

SPEAKER_01

I love you know, when you have every few months you go through your whole wardrobe and try on different things, and I'm like, I don't need to buy anything new. I'll look at all the great things I've got. I can work in different ways, but it is fun, it's a role-play thing, but it is self-expression, and I think that's why in your teens you go through all those different styles. You know, I remember going from it was all I have great abs, so I was always the tiny midriff tops and the big baggy jeans was my thing. But then I would mess. Yeah, no, well, actually, it was first scary was my favorite because she had good abs too and always had the midriff top and the pants. And I I more I had one of her like Barbie doll things at first, but that was so the look. Because I was in high school, yeah, 97 was when I spent up. Then I went through all the like where I used to do my own tie-dyeing my own shirts at home. I went to school in Newtown, so you, you know, you try your your goth era where I had the black beanie and the tie-dyed shirt and the the dresses over the pants. And like it was self-expression. We were trying to figure out who we were by trying different styles, you know, and people would always criticize you. I remember my principal telling me off and dye my hair pink. But it was, you know, we would just it was self-expression. And I think you get to this sort of age where it is, but you sort of get to a point where you you know what your style is too, but then it's fun to mix it up as well and and switch it up every few years. But yeah, it's self-expression, it's beautiful. That's a really nice response that's actually left me feeling good about the industry. I really like that response. You've lived uh a life deeply rooted in yoga philosophy. How has that inner practice shaped the way you show up in such a visually driven external industry? Because you do seem quite grounded and in touch with yourself. I imagine yoga has a big part to play there.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, look, I think um a lot of the Aston philosophies, what they can assist us with is sitting and witnessing your thoughts, your emotions, your actions, and having that witness of non-judgment, just witnessing your outside your personality. Once you see things in yourself that don't lead to harmony, that you know that I continue to do that, and when I do that, that's what happens. So you know that those responses won't lead to happiness, they lead to chaos, and so I think that's what Eastern philosophies help us to do is just to be a witness to ourselves and just how we've sort of grown into who we are, and it's like, okay, well, this is me right now, and when I sit quietly or go for a little swim by myself or go for a walk or whatever, just to be aware of the thoughts and then start to oh, that thought just keeps coming through. It doesn't serve me every time it comes now. I'm gonna click my fingers and I'm gonna make myself aware of it because I don't want it anymore. And so for me, that's what yoga and all the different things that I've I've incorporated in my life. They've they've helped me to clear out the junk and replace them and practice just kindness to self and kindness to others, and so that builds compassion. And I think once you start to build your compassion, you you cease to speak badly about other people because it only really sours yourself. And and so I think to me, why those you know, Tibetan Buddhism and all the yoga philosophy, that's why they really do resonate with me because they make my life happier, they make me a better person. In the modeling industry, perhaps the reason that I'm even still here is if there's you know, a couple of people being bored. I guess the client just wants someone that's just gonna be easy for the day. They just want to have a good day, do the job out of I I think often that's the case. It's not the fact that you know I'm a better model or I'm a but I think I'm just sort of, you know, I show up and and I'm nice.

SPEAKER_01

Like listen, who do you want to spend your day around? Energy matters. And I remember when I was young and danced, and there was this girl who was one of the best dancers I'd ever seen. She never got booked for work because no one wanted to work with her. She was just a nightmare to deal with. She was so argumentative, so chip on her shoulder. Yeah. That that I just find have you ever read any of Louise Hayes' books? Yeah, love Louise Hayes. Yeah. Same. And I remember her talking about, you know, she would go, I think she was working at a bar or something when she was really young, and people were complaining about the boss. And she really sort of took the time to get to know him and was really compassionate. And she ended up getting a lot more shifts, and then her landlord never put her rent up, and it's sort of philosophies that I've really worked at for years. And I just find professionally are always treating me really well. But I think because I'm treating them with the that mutual respect and compassion.

SPEAKER_02

And I find that I think it's because you're doing the work, because often we respond in ways that aren't cool because of our self-confidence, our lack of self-love. And it's just like, just do the work, man.

SPEAKER_01

Just you know. But on that, Kate, do you find because I have found a lot, even in the last year, the more personal work and growth I do, the more I clash with people who have done no work. Yeah. Have you ever found that? Yeah. You have. And how how do you deal with that? Because you seem quite compassionate. Do you sort of just do a bit of a Mel Robbins Let Them theory and just trying to remove yourself a bit from it? It's self-preservation in a way. Less tolerant, would you say? What's that? Like less tolerant of the drama?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, like I yeah, like it's just like you're really lovely and you're super fun and you know and gorgeous. But not for me. I'm not gonna travel in travel along with you because because it's too random. It's too you're not solid enough in yourself. And sorry, like until you get a bit more solid in yourself. I just I just you know. Yeah, yes. You you you just go live your life and yes.

SPEAKER_01

But that's a nice way to live. It's um yeah, yeah. But it's it's not pro it's non-problematic when you live like that, like just letting people be. I I've got to get better at that. That's definitely the journey I'm on at the moment because I I get triggered by things a lot. It's it's something I I'm working on. Uh, what age did you introduce yoga into your life? So I've been doing yoga since I was a kid.

SPEAKER_02

Since you were a kid.

SPEAKER_01

Because I was gonna ask, you were talking about it almost like it helps you to make better choices for yourself. So I was gonna ask if you ever struggled maybe in your, especially when you first started modeling, maybe in your 20s and that with you know, lots of, I imagine it can be a wild industry. Did you ever struggle with not making good choices for yourself? Or you found that yoga always helped you sort of stay grounded to do things that were good for your body and your mind?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so I've I've always had a foot in in both both courts. Well, I did until I was you know 35. I'd had yoga and that whole sort of approach to life. You know, I also wanted to experience life. And so there were choices that I made that I knew were wrong. And I and I just stepped right into them, knowing they were wrong. Let's just see what happens type of a type of a headspace. But then, you know, after going out and partying all weekend long, I'd go and have acupuncture on Monday morning.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, you are speaking my language with both of those. It's a rite of passage, isn't it? There's a vlogger I watch who's like married at 23, then had a baby, and she bakes bread and she's beautiful and I love her. But I'm like, holy shit, I would have died doing that in my 20s. Like I needed to be out and experiencing, and you know, everyone has their own journey. For me, that was very much part of it. Whereas now I I haven't touched a drink in nearly two years. It's just sort of not where I'm at now. But I'm I have no regrets that you know, and I did make some poor choices and things that weren't great for me, but it, you know, like that's why I am who I am today. I feel like it it's a rite of passage, and you know, that it's experience, isn't it? As a as a as a spirit, as a soul, to learn things about yourself. So I think that making mistakes is like literally part of the journey. And I I wouldn't want to have that sort of silver spoon life where I avoided all problematic areas. I think that it's part and parcel, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. I think some of us are luckier than others that for whatever reason in this life you've got um sort of an inbuilt, you know, maybe a guiding light or something to get you through because some people don't make it through.

SPEAKER_01

No, that's true.

SPEAKER_02

And yeah, I saw a lot of that in modeling, um, in the modeling world. Some girls don't have anywhere to go home to. Some their poor choices led to more poor choices, and and and you go down really quite dark.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you can't, and you know what? Any of us are capable of it at any any stage, aren't we? You could go this way or you could go that way. No one's immune to sort of disaster and yeah. Yeah, it's funny because I do I used to do a lot of work with the Wayside Chapel with the homeless community in King's Cross. And there's I find that there's a I gotta do an interview with the pastor there, but I find that there's a lot of stigma around the homeless community, and I'm like, why? Like it literally could be you. You could lose your job, then your partner might leave you, and then you then you're out, you know, you get kicked out of your rental, and you think, well, I might just stay in my car for a week, and then all of a sudden, like it's only a few choices. So that what you said about privilege or being lucky, that's true. Like it might not be that you're a stronger person, it might just be that you've had better circumstances. So exactly, exactly. We're we're all capable of going one way or the other. It's it's a matter of just a few sort of circumstances changing, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's interesting. Well, we've gone off on a tangent there, so I'll bring it.

SPEAKER_02

But I just we can talk about so many different areas. It comes back into the gratitude thing, and yeah, like yeah.

SPEAKER_01

My episode today I released was uh an episode on gratitude. It's funny you say that. So speaking of we were talking about your natural look. So you your look feels very grounded, natural, and earthy in a world that often pushes perfection. How have you cultivated that sense of self-trust and authenticity?

SPEAKER_02

Um, I don't really look at myself all that much.

SPEAKER_01

I it's which is very interesting for a model to say.

SPEAKER_02

Well, it's not up to me. I'm like this, I'm like a sort of a blank canvas. And so I turn up at work and I have no say whatsoever on how I look. I'm told how I, you know, even how I have my hair cut or colored or anything like that, that's all that's all work. And so there's a lot of surrendering. I have to surrender to whoever does my makeup. I may not like it, can't change it. Hair, same thing, what I'm wearing, you know, it may no say whatsoever. And so I think that's surrendering of all of this, um, and just doing the job, bringing the feeling, doing the job, it suits me in a way because my mother was never sort of someone that had had a lot of artifice, she was very natural woman, still is, and I saw her as beautiful and still see her as beautiful. And I guess my aesthetic, like that sort of I really love what French how French women The best of the best. You know, their hair's just a bit that, and then you know, and they might have a little bit of lippy on or whatever, but they've styled themselves because that's how they've, you know, that's what they like. And so it's a very much showing up as yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Um there is no style like a French woman. Hey, like there's something about it. And I remember when I was in France a couple of years ago with my husband, and I was, I had been watching Selling Sunset on my phone with all the girls in LA. And LA is just such a a particular look, right? And I get cosmetic work done, but it's so like it gets worse and worse and worse each year. Like it's so, you don't even know what the real woman looks like anymore. Like it's the full-on makeup, the full-on lashes, the full-on uh filler and injectables and all that. Not judging, I'm just saying that it's so not natural. And then when when I'm in France and the women are just like one bit of eyeliner, and I'm like, they are so beautiful and stylish. And I I really like that you sort of you still see the real woman, and I do get work done, but I'm also like, some days you just want to look like a human in a t-shirt with not much makeup on, and I'm like, it's still so beautiful, but then it's like we're so used to seeing such perfect faces that you could look at yourself like you're not enough, but it's so refreshing sometimes to see a really fresh face. And it's hard for me to say that, Kate, because as I said before we started recording, I don't like that bullshit of women saying, I saw something online, oh, women who don't get Botox, I'll be your friend. And I'm like, women who don't judge women for getting Botox, I'll be your friend. Because I'm like, it's no one's business what I do to my face. But if there is that, you know, such perfection on our screens all the time, it's gonna get to a point where we start questioning our natural beauty. And there's something so lovely just about how we look as ourselves because it's quite unique. Whereas, you know, the more work that we get done, I pass some women that I'm like, didn't I just pass you? You look the same as that woman. Where we're gonna lose some of that uniqueness, and you know.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I just yeah, I just think it's more fun, actually. That's all. Like just what being more natural? Yeah, just being me. I just think it's more fun. I think my hair looks better, I think my my face looks better without makeup. I mean, I understand that, you know, for for work and stuff that make helps in the situation of then the whole post of a of an image and uh you know, like the sort of the back end of of how image is is then put out there. So makeup is really helpful in that respect. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I really like the word you use, Kate, surrender. I almost feel like in a way, you're you're more in touch with who you are than us not modeling because you're surrendering it to other people. So you're more in touch with who you are as a person. So I'm always saying to people, you know, you're you're that that soul having a human experience. So the real you is that spirit, and this body is just clothing. And it, you know, when we move into the next life, because I believe in that, you know, this skin gets left behind, but I don't die, I just move on to the next thing. So I like that surrendering to it's really just it's just the outside, isn't it? It's just a yeah, it's just a nice outfit. This body.

SPEAKER_02

And with with social media, in some ways, we're all models now. Like everyone's a model now. So every you know, everyone can, if they choose, have a slightly different perspective on the on the outside. Like yeah, with what I've sort of had to build or or had to grow or something. Uh I think everyone can can sort of come from a space where how do I feel? You know, what makes this make me feel rather than how does this make me look, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's a very important question. How does this make me feel? That's something that I bring up a lot in the podcast of always, you know, sort of questioning, you know, how you sort of, as a younger woman, I went along with a lot of things. And then now I sort of question, how does this make me feel? How does this relationship make me feel? How does this job make me feel? I think it's a really powerful question to always check in with the self. So I love that, okay. That was you, you you're surprising me in all your answers, but I like it. It's really you're in touch with something in yourself. I love that. For women listening who are moving through their 40s, 50s, and beyond, perhaps feeling unseen or questioning their worth, what would you most want them to know?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so I I talk to myself a lot. I actually I can't.

SPEAKER_01

No, I I'm smiling because I do too.

SPEAKER_02

Chad, chat, chat your way. You know, I can't talk for women that have been in the home with children and then the children leave, and it's a whole other life. Like I've because I didn't have kids, I I don't know what that feels like. And so I really can't, I can't imagine the space that you'd be in just going, Who am I?

SPEAKER_01

You know, I've got because you wrapped your identity around being their mum for so long. I imagine it's gonna be really tough.

SPEAKER_02

And it's just like give it all, give it all away, you know, give it, put everyone before themselves. And so what I've been doing is putting myself first. So all I could say to women, sort of, you know, stepping out in thinking that and feeling perhaps not seen and not heard and whatever, is to put yourself first. And just even simple things, like for a while there, I had a really sort of down patch around 30, and I think I partied too much and messed my brain chemicals up a little bit, and I had a sort of you know, a depressive phase in my life. And the thing that really helped me, and I'm not saying women are depressed in any way for you know, feeling like that, not at all. But what I found was that walking, just the bipodal motion of your arms and your legs just like resets your brain. So, you know, if you if you add that to just movement in itself, any sort of movement, sign up for a class, go for a walk, go, you know, go for a swim, any sort of movement is gonna help you. And then it we get to that like, well, how does this make me feel? This makes me feel happy when I'm in the water, this makes me feel great when I'm dancing, you know, and then I think that's a way of perhaps transitioning into the world through movement and that choice of no, I am going to go for a walk. I know everyone here's doing their thing or whatever, and and I'm gonna choose myself first because yeah, I want to go and unapologetically, right?

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I love that movement is so powerful, but a long walk in nature with your head, yes, yeah, yes, it shifts the energy in the body, but that long walk in nature with no headphones is so powerful to reconnect with yourself. It's like I if I don't get it for two or three days, I'm out of my body. I need that long walk in nature, yeah just hearing the birds chirp. There's something so powerful about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love what you said. I mean, the the whole premise of my podcast is that filling up your cup first. And I love that. And I'm on such a different level with that now. And I we were saying just before we started recording, I'm so excited because I've just gotten my son into two days' daycare. And I, because I go, I should be so happy with me, you know, not working the nine to five anymore. But I'm it's like I've been working for my son, like I haven't had time to myself. And there's something about a woman that disappears into motherhood. You lose a sense of self. And it's it's not complaining because you're so wonderful with how much you've gained, but I'm very aware that I need to carve out that time to give back to myself. And it is so important.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And if you don't know what to do, just go for a walk. That's what I mean in that story before. Just go for a walk. Yeah, it comes all the answers come to you. I didn't ever notice the tile work on there, and then you'll walk along.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, house poving's my favorite activity.

SPEAKER_02

You know, it just it yeah, just just look around and and just be present.

SPEAKER_01

I'm a tree, I'm a tree hugger, and now my son has started doing it because he watches me. His face lights up when I go, he's our tree, and I stop and I hug them, or I shake hands with the branches, or I just touch the trees to exchange energy. And it's yeah, it's really lovely. Yeah. And he I'm glad that he's watching me and he's sort of developing that for himself. But oh, you just I have so much more I could say on that. It's just putting yourself first is so, so important. It's really yeah, to that point about women, you know, that emptiness syndrome. I've had a few episodes lately with like menopause and that. It's a really interesting time of your life because it's um very often painted as a a lack or a negative or what you're losing, but it's really a beautiful sort of love affair with the self because you get to rediscover yourself and what you love. And you know, there's a sort of a wisdom that comes with that age where you yeah, you just you you're more yourself unapologetically than you were in your 20s and 30s, and it's um it's a real beauty in there.

SPEAKER_02

I think you just if you allow yourself, you just get more wild and free. That's that's yes, yeah. That's all my plan is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think I've realized Kate is that people judge me no matter what, so I might as well just do whatever the hell I want.

SPEAKER_02

It's just been really sort of uninterested in what other people are doing. And that comes from that whole sort of you know, male competition thing. It's just like, I don't care what you're doing, your journey is your journey. You might be in exactly the same industry as me, exactly the same sort of category as me. And that's why with social media people go, oh, it's really terrible. It just makes me feel so, you know, threatened and it makes me feel like I'm not. And I just sort of think, why would my, you know, my journey be the same as somebody else's? That's their journey. Like all of our lives are so different that there's no competition. There's no competition in life. The only competition you have with is with yourself, and it's like, I'd really like to start writing. Well, I've been saying that for years, and it's like, you know, it's taken me all this time to actually start to write. I mean, that's all you should be worried about. What do you want to do?

SPEAKER_01

And start doing it. Like I love that. And how good is writing? It's so cathartic and therapeutic, but also you can do it at any age, in any s any setting. Like, I love that. It's something you can carry with you forever.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So that's also what I'd say to people, try things. You know, my sister is my sister's a wonderful um example of the kids have left, the girls have left. And so Annie was feeling it a little bit of a loose end. And so she started arts course at the National School of Art of Love Arts. And she's doing her first exhibition.

SPEAKER_01

So you're an artistic family. How beautiful. Yeah, which is just, I just think fantastic.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Doesn't it light you up inside seeing women do new try new things? And I I heard I interviewed someone once that she said um the divine feminine energy loves newness. So I'm like, I love that. I like to sort of stretch myself and not get too comfortable and try new things all the time. There's something your energy feels youthful once you try something new. I love that.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. And and Steph, that does, that sort of reminds me of something else that I was going to say that the amount of travel that I've done by myself, I think has been really, really helpful. So if that's something that, you know, women my age and whatever, at, you know, coming out of their 40s or whatever, not my age, younger than me, but if that's something that can help too, maybe just even if it's catch a train and go to a different suburb and you're by yourself.

SPEAKER_01

I used to take myself on dates all the time before I had my son, like always on a train to do somewhere different and doing different things. And I love it. I have a I have a real love affair with myself, you know, like that's always been my thing of that real um, I think because I always had those sort of longer relationships and some that were suffocating that whenever I was on my own, I really don't didn't want to waste a second of it and getting to know myself and sort of romancing myself and romanticizing all those little um mundane things of life. I think women have a real beautiful knack of doing that, don't they?

SPEAKER_02

It's a beautiful way of saying that. It's a beautiful way of saying it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I could talk to you for hours and hours. You really have this beautiful energy that's like impacting me even through the screen. But tell me, Kate, it sounds like you're very good at giving back to yourself. What's something you're gonna be doing in the next week to fill up your cup?

SPEAKER_02

See, I've got a very special spot that I go to. I mean, and it's so beautiful, and I just it's so undiscovered that if I were to say it, don't say it.

SPEAKER_01

Keep it for yourself. Is it in nature? Don't say where it is. It's your spot, it's your sacred spot, and you're gonna go there and what, have some alone time.

SPEAKER_02

It's my yeah, it is my little sacred spot. And I if I don't get there, you know, once or twice a week, I just don't feel like me. And I'm lucky enough to be able to get in the ocean. I mean, some people around the world, it's it's not how they, you know can live their life, but um, I can at this point. So I do love getting in the ocean.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, really it's therapeutic, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, nothing like salt water. Well, you enjoy that in your sacred spot. I'll I'll be thinking about it for the next week where that spot is. Now I'm kidding. Keep it to yourself. No, I want you to keep it to yourself. It's like when you um, you know, when you pick those things in the garden and bloke make a wish. I said to my six-year-old neighbor, so don't tell me what your wish is. There's certain things that it's good to keep for yourself. It's um it's sacred. I love that. Kate, you are such a beautiful, beautiful human. I really enjoy, I enjoyed our chat, but I'm so grateful for you for just sharing that beautiful energy and such wisdom, not just with the audience, but with myself. So thank you so much. You too. Thank you so much. Really lovely. Thank you, Kate. It really meant so much to me. And everybody, I hope you enjoyed this so much. And please do something in the next week to fill up your cup. Thank you again for being here today. I hope that this episode brought some value to you. I look forward to your company in the next episode, and please connect with me on socials to keep this love fest going.

SPEAKER_00

Feel free to DM me with any questions at all. And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a loved one or in your Insta stories. And if you're feeling super generous, a review on Apple Podcasts would be greatly appreciated. I'll catch you in the next episode.