She's Giving Wealth: What Every Woman Needs to Know About Money - with Caitlin Bath 💰✨

What does it really take for women to build wealth in today's world?

In this episode, I sit down with financial educator, author and founder of She's Giving Wealth, Caitlin Bath, for a powerful conversation about money, motherhood, financial confidence and what it means to create wealth on your own terms.

Ahead of the release of her debut book She's Giving Wealth, Caitlin is challenging the traditional financial advice women have been fed for decades — advice built around linear careers and uninterrupted earning, not the reality of caregiving, motherhood, burnout, divorce, career pivots and rebuilding.

We dive into the hidden cost of being a woman, the connection between money and nervous system safety, and why so many women feel disconnected from financial confidence despite working incredibly hard.

Caitlin also shares her own story of rebuilding after divorce and depression, becoming the primary breadwinner of her family, and redefining what financial sovereignty actually looks like in real life.

This episode is for every woman who wants to feel more empowered, informed and confident about her financial future — regardless of where she's starting from.

We cover:

• Why traditional financial advice often misses the realities of women's lives
 • The connection between money and nervous system safety
 • Motherhood, invisible labour and the wealth gap
 • Rebuilding financially after major life changes
 • What financial sovereignty really means
 • How women can build wealth on their own terms
 • The mindset shifts that support long-term financial confidence

Have a listen to our chat, or watch the full video on YouTube here.

Thanks for tuning in today to The Can I Get a Refill? Podcast, and be sure to jump on my website (below) to download a free 33 page eBook on 7 Steps to Protect Your Energy & Fill Up Your Cup. 

You cannot pour from an empty cup, so I’ve designed a guide to help you take care of yourself, in order to uplevel your life. Download it today and make yourself a priority in 2026!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Jumping in here to talk directly to my Sydney friends about one of my absolute favourite cafes, Pilgrims Crenolla. Now located in their gorgeous new location opposite South Crenolla Park, with expanded indoor and outdoor seating, including pet-friendly tables out front, and delicious food, juice, and coffee. The menu is full of wholesome, veggio-friendly eats that feel both nostalgic and nourishing. Expect breckie wraps, vibrant salads, smoothies, fresh juices, and some of the best plant-based sandwiches going. I strongly recommend the corn fritters and the chai shake, which is definitely big enough for two. Check them out on Insta and be sure to visit when you're next in Crenola. I'm recording this episode on the lands of the Darawal people and pay my respects to their elders. As this is a digital platform, I also want to pay my respects to the traditional custodians of the lands on which you, our listeners, are based, and acknowledge that you are telling stories on these lands too. Welcome to Can I Get a Refill? A podcast for ambitious women who are tired of pouring from an empty cup, but still want to grow, evolve, and build a life they're proud of. Through a mix of comforting solo episodes and inspiring conversations with industry professionals, authors, wellness experts, and entrepreneurs, we talk about what it really looks like to refill your cup while up-leveling your life. Topics include mental, emotional, and physical wellness, hormonal health, manifestation, career and finance, boundaries, self-trust, and redefining success on your own terms. Hosted by me, Steph Bruno Newton, each weekly episode is designed to motivate, ground, and empower you to take care of your needs and go after the life you actually want. Pour yourself a cup, take a breath, and let's refill it together. Today's guest is financial educator, author, and founder of She's Giving Wealth, Caitlin Bath. Ahead of the release of her debut book, She's Giving Wealth, Caitlin is on a mission to change the way women think about money, wealth, and financial power. Particularly for women whose lives haven't followed the neat, linear path traditional financial advice was built around. After navigating divorce, depression, career pivots, and financially rebuilding herself, Caitlin now speaks at the intersection of feminist economics, nervous system regulation, and practical financial strategy. In this conversation, we unpack what women really need to know about money, the hidden financial realities of motherhood and caregiving, the connection between money and emotional safety, and what financial sovereignty actually looks like in real life. We also talk about the inspiration behind her upcoming book, the challenges many women face when building wealth, and how women can begin creating greater financial confidence without shame or self-judgment. This is a deeply empowering conversation about money, self-worth, and creating a future that feels secure, aligned, and sustainable. Thank you for being here again for the Can I Get a Refill Podcast. If you're new here, I'm Steph, I'm your host, and I help women stop pouring from an empty cup and start building a life that actually supports them. If that's something that you're interested in, you should hit the follow button and stick around. I also recommend jumping on the website www.canagetareefill podcast.com.au, linked in the show notes, to download your free ebook on seven steps to protect your energy and fill up your cup. Every area of your life depends on the relationship you have with yourself. So make sure it's a really strong one. Download it today and make yourself your number one priority. Okay, now let's jump in. Hello, my cup fillers, and welcome back to the Canada Refill Podcast. We are so blessed today to be joined by special guest Caitlin Bath. Caitlin, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Thank you so much, Steph. I absolutely love your work, love your voice, and I'm so excited to be here and share with you.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

That's so nice. I'm very excited for this podcast to talk about. I love what you're doing with work, but we did have a chat off-air, and it was really nice how you had been listened to my solo episode, which was a very vulnerable episode for me. So it was very nice to connect on that. That's really means a lot. Before we jump into questions, I'm really excited for this because I haven't, I wasn't doing a lot of finance episodes or career episodes. I was doing a lot of inner work and wellness for the first two seasons. And now I'm like, okay, we've worked on ourselves. Let's hit the finance and the and the career. And I'm really into the female perspective of finance. So that's something that we're going to talk about. And we're both mums of toddlers. So that's something that we can. You have a 20-month-old girl, I have a 22-month-old boy. So and it really does, doesn't it? Sort of shift your perspective on everything.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

100% on everything, on what wellness is, on filling your cup, on what wealth is. It just a whole journey. And it's it's part of a bigger journey, you know, of our lives. And it's been really beautiful and really confronting at times. A lot.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

A lot. And it's funny, it's like so joyous and so rewarding. And it does make you shift your perspective on things in terms of financial goals. But also even the day-to-day spending um changes. I used to have, if you watch old videos, see these chip nails? They used to be like perfectly like done now. I haven't been to the nail salon in months. My the delivery driver used to deliver to me all the time. He's like, what's going on? All my orders on the iconic have shifted from women's clothing to kids' clothing. So like shifts so, so much, you know, your body hormones. Oh my God. So, but it's good to talk about it from a finance perspective. But before we jump into the questions, very excited to announce that you have an upcoming uh debut book being released, She's Giving Wealth, which is the coolest title. I love that so much. So talk us through a little bit, maybe about how you became a financial educator and how this book came about to be. Actually, what's the the release date too?

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yes, thank you so much. Um 30th of June. So End of Financial Year. Yeah. And thank you for it. Spacey devoted. And that was really it. Hey, it's it's actually being launched um, you know, West End here in Brisbane in an art gallery, um, and on the 30th of June. And it's all around that reclamation of you know, power for women. And end of financial year is typically a time that's dominated by men and built for men. So it's actually around subverting that and going, actually, we're going to release a book about money, women, and power in the traditional um end of financial year. And the book actually examines my lived experience, but also the experience of 14 other women who are just range. Yeah, their stories are all woven in. So it's actually a book for women by women, and it examines things from perspectives of single mothers, directors, business owners, um, First Nations women, um, migrant women, disabled women, queer and trans women. So it actually really encompasses, I've I've really sought to consult because we we are very constrained by the financial system as women. But when you start layering on top of that different identities, you know, some of us are starting further back with even more weight. And their voices need to be heard in the financial space as well. And we never talk about that, we don't talk about that. So these beautiful women, they've all contributed to my book, they've all given their voices, they've all co-written pieces with me. And I've partnered with this incredible artist, um, Nicole Shafter, and she is doing an individual portrait of every woman in the book. They've sent her their best photo, she's like got their energy, and she's actually painting commissioned portraits, and we're gonna hang them in the gallery in West End on the 30th of June. And so it's actually, yes, it's about my experience, but it's also around women, you know, and when women don't gatekeep. When we share power, we can make the earth absolutely shake. So that's what it is. It's it's very different, it's not your traditional finance book. I don't tell women what to do in it because let's be honest, women are sick of being told what to do. We're sick of it. I'm sick of it.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Well, I'm gonna end it. I'm gonna end the episode here because we're not getting better than that. That was the best Caitlin. How special. Firstly, congratulations. On my vision board is having a book released. I'll get to that one day. What an amazing feat to do that. But what a unique book. I never really hear of experiences like that with all different women from all different walks of life and how beautifully inclusive to include women because already you're on the back foot as a woman in the career world or finance world, but to have people from all different demographics like that is really special. But with the portraits and everything, what a beautiful experience. This book launch is going to be so magical, and I'm super jealous because I really wanted to go until I realized it was in Brisbane and I've been sitting. I also love a good book launch, but I'm so excited to read the book, Caitlin. I cannot wait. And I'll share my thoughts and feelings on Instagram. I'm an avid reader and I love reading books from my guests as well. Everyone, check out the show notes and everything, the description. I'll have everything linked for your website, your Insta, your book, and everything. So, what an empowering book this is. Super, super excited. We might do a part two after after I've read the book. I would love that. Absolutely. Further questions. There's always going to be finance questions to be had on this show. So that's great. Absolutely. Well, let's dive straight into it. So you speak a lot about women's financial journeys being nonlinear with caregiving, career breaks, divorce, burnout, and rebuilding and hormones, especially. I even forgot that. Why do you think traditional financial advice has failed to reflect the reality of women's lives specifically?

SPEAKER_01 10:05

It was built for a life that wasn't hers, is the simple answer. When we look at financial advice, it is from a system that has not just not included women, but it's actively constrained women and been designed against women's entry. So that's very different. It it takes things from emotion into it's it's actually not an emotional issue. It's data and it's factual and it's logical, and it's there's a logical reason that we feel the way we do as women about money.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

It's validating.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

So validating. And it's that relief of oh my god, it's not in my head. Yes. It's not in my head. You weren't designed to succeed. Yeah. No, thank you. We're not designed to succeed. And traditional advice assumes a linear career, uninterrupted earning trajectory, two income household, and no disruptions. And that's it reflects less than 50% of the population. And rarely for women, I can count on on my one hand the amount of women who have had that kind of financial life or that kind of life. And it does come back to the system acts as if women's economic exclusion and restriction just doesn't exist and that it's a personal problem. And that we just need to work harder, budget more, be more disciplined, be more motivated. Yeah. And it's absolutely not right because caregiving, career, you know, even to aged parents, the amount of women I talk to and and Maria in in the book, she actually turned down promotions, she turned down relocations, she turned down things not for her kids, but because she was looking after an aging mum. And that's even that that's an experience that men don't typically have because Kennedy Money is firmly, yeah, typically on women. So I think that when we follow the advice and we still feel behind, that's systemic design. You know, it's actually not personal failing.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

And the language around women, it it's fucked. You know, like it is definitely you've failed, you need to save more, you need to spend less. But then our expenses are skyrocketed. And then it's the expectation of if a woman's in public not wearing makeup, she's shamed. But then, oh, but women are overspenders. Well, you you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Yeah, you cannot win.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

You cannot win. And I think that the traditional advice is built for a life we just don't get to live as women. And so, and then it's um personalized when we think that it's, you know, and the system's like, oh, it's not working for you. Well, that's your problem, and this is where you you get to make it up. But really, if we were compensated for the work we actually did, women would be the highest paid demographic in the world. But we're not. No. We're not, we're actually overworked and our energy is under-leveraged.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Yes. Do you know what an age we're living in, though, where these conversations are starting to immerse. So I always talk about, you know, people, I'm a very nostalgic person. If you follow me on Instagram, always sharing 90s things that, you know, I loved. But, you know, we always say things of like the good old days. But the good old days, we were silenced. We were, you know, we had this discussion off air. Women didn't have voices. It wasn't that long ago that women couldn't co-sign an ownership without her dad or her husband, that you could couldn't have credit cards, all that bullshit. And I'm seeing in society now, you know, it sort of started, I reckon around lockdown times, it really started, you know, with the Black Lives Uh Matter movement and the Meeting movement. People have had enough. And the people who've been controlling things and we were all puppeteers or we're all puppets, we're done. So, yes, yes, it's an overwhelming society where everything's at your fingertips with social media and the internet, but it's given us that space of freedom to have our own voice that we didn't have before. And all of a sudden, the the momentum of women, especially in the space of empowerment, career, and finance, we're just we're building a sisterhood. I have goosebumps. Can you see them?

SPEAKER_01 14:23

I actually do too.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

It excites me so much. It really is the the time for the divine feminine. So let's A, have a voice, but B, let's do things our way that suit the female body and life and 28-day cycle, not the 24-hour cycle. So it's wonderful. What you're doing is as a service to the community. And and I think too, also wanting to be wealthy and abundant was seen as sort of a greedy or selfish thing years ago. And it's not, I always talk about money as an amplifier, much like alcoholity that brings out if you're in a good mood and drink, it brings that out further. If you're in a bad mood, it brings that further. So I think if you're a good philanthropic person, you can do great things with money. So it's it's a wonderful time. It's a wonderful time to be a woman and have your say. So it's really great that we've got conversations like this.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Absolutely. And I think what we're seeing as well is a sharp rollback in many um countries and many areas as well, almost as a reaction against what's happening on the grassroots level. So we're seeing obviously what's happening in America and where women's rights that, you know, have taken hundreds of years to actually achieve, uh, you know, there is that rollback and there is that reactivity, and we're seeing the reaction against it, but on the same level, we're actually seeing consciousness, you know, that that evolving consciousness.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

And I think the abuse of power brought that out, though. So it's like what we were discussing off air. There's certain things that happen in my personal life that I used to feel resentful for, and now I'm like, yeah, but you know what? It unlocked my superpower. When people abused power over me and took my voice, it unlocked the superpower where I'm going to inspire other women. Whereas I may not have felt that before. I may have been more of a silver spoon life where I just went along like the current. Yes. Yeah, it's that abuse of power. We've all had enough. We're all speaking up.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

100%. And I think that's the commonality in our experience. We are used to being constrained by a system that is designed not to let us win. And the more we speak to it, the more we actually share power. And the sisterhood doesn't, you know, gatekeep, it shares power. And our power as women has always been in our connectiveness, in our empathy, in our ability to share, to create those networks and to champion each other. And in the book, I talk about Agatha, like she's this beautiful, beautiful woman. She's she migrated from South Korea. She's got multiple degrees, she's director level, phenomenal woman. What she describes to me as the calibration that she has to do to her energy, to her attitude, to her way of being in a room that wasn't built for her as a female and as a woman of colour. But the most beautiful thing that Agatha said to me is in the book. And we're on the phone one day and we're talking about how difficult it is sometimes to, you know, make these steps and make these changes for women. And she just said to me, But Caitlin, like if we all share power, you know, she's like, Oh, it's like that saying, if we all jump together, then together we can make the earth shake. And I was like, I haven't heard that saying. I think you just made that up. And it's true, like, if we all just do a little bit together, we don't have to go out and and change the absolute world. But and it does start. I'm sorry, I could talk all day, but moving back to what you said, your first few seasons were on health and wellness, and that is foundational Steph. And that's where reclamation of power begins in our bodies and actually reclaiming our energy, reclaiming our mental health, our emotional health, because that is the infrastructure that wealth is built on.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Yes. But look at where our energy really jump up because we're this is an exchange. We're talking about these things, and there's something, like you said, about women when they come together, standing on each other's shoulders, lifting each other up. You know, like when you go to a seminar where it's all women and you leave with the best so I think that that's the natural feminine urge. But in the patriarchal society, we were pitted against each other. You know, there were Miss Universe pageants where you're standing there in a bikini being judged for how you look. So we were competitive with one another. Or like I always say the bachelorette didn't work as well because the men all became friends and the women were more competitive with each other. But that's the way that the producers made that happen. But I think the natural inclination is to really bond with each other, you know, like back in village days of, you know, the women really work together. You know, like I always think about the elephants at the zoo, they separate the men because they keep trying to hump the women and then they're the women are all together and all the aunties are helping raise the kids. And I'm like, the elephant is my spirit animal because I just feel like I go further in life when I've got that sisterhood around me. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

I think that elephants are a matriarchal society. So that that actually works really.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Oh, Caitlyn, we could talk for hours. I will move on. But yeah, I love that so much. Uh, one of the most powerful things you talk about is the connection between money and nervous system safety. This is so up my alley. Can you explain what happens psychologically and physically when women feel financially unsafe and why just budget better often doesn't work?

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Great question. And that comes back to because the body knows things that the spreadsheet doesn't. And when we look at financial stress versus financial trauma, there's a really big difference, and no one talks about financial trauma. We need to talk about those different things because they come from different starting points. So financial stress says I'm overwhelmed, I've got a lot to get through right now. But financial trauma says, I am not safe. I'm not safe with money, money is not safe around me. And we put that down to personal and we go, we'll manifest our way out of it, I'll do some self-work on it. And that's really, really important. But something really fundamental to first see and acknowledge is that the system that that's a result of systemic conditioning and also the way that women have been excluded from economic life and in fact exploited by the planet.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

This trauma and the nervous system, it's subconscious, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Or I think for me it is. I I believe for most women, and it's because, and and that's very actively that's a design, you know, by the system, because they don't want us to examine our beliefs. We they just want us to work on ourselves. So when we actually reflect back and go, actually, how much of this is societal conditioning and historic conditioning of women's economic power or lack thereof, that's when it gets really trippy. And for women, money has always represented safety or lack thereof. And when you look at it, for millennia, money has controlled. I'm getting goosebumps again. Money has controlled our safety. It's controlled who we get married off to, like chattels, you know, traditionally, whether we get to be safe or not, whether we get to be able to leave, whether we have any choice or agency at all. And, you know, you touched on it really briefly, but as late as 1980, women in Australia had to have a Male guarantor to take out a loan. Crazy. Like that's eight years before I was born. That is not, you know, back back back in the day. That's recent. So it's we women are judged for having money. Um, we're judged for not having money. We're judged for showing that we have money. We're judged for showing that we don't have money. We're judging money. Oh my gosh. And then we kind of go, oh, I don't know why I feel so unsafe around money. Well, you've got generational financial trauma, most likely. And it's been passed down from great-grandmother all the way down. And the conversation today is still about restricting money when it comes to women. Like it's overwhelmingly, it's around budgeting. It's around get this app to get 20 cents off your grocery shop. I'm not saying don't save. I'm not, I don't, I'm not saying don't be aware.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yeah, but it gets to a point where it's really just about building more wealth. And I had that discussion not long ago with my, oh, a little while back now with my husband before we started doing our own businesses. And I he's like, listen, it's gotten to a point where you can't make any more cutbacks. You're you're like budgeting as well as you can. Now it's just about increasing your salary. You know, but my go-to was where can what am I doing wrong? Where can I stop spending? And it was really just, girl, for your talent and your skill and your intelligence, you are just not earning enough.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Yeah. Bam. Bam. And then it's that whole work of reclamation of going, okay, I don't want just want to like control money or I actually want to direct it. You know, I want to, I want to just dictate where it goes. I want to protect what it invests. I want to direct it. I don't want to shrink it. And in the book, I talk just briefly as well. There's so many beautiful women in this book, but Cassie, my friend, she actually grew up in a housing commission sort of environment. She and her sisters, they used to pound macadamia nuts on the concrete back porch to get enough food to supplement because they were always hungry growing up. And her dad was abusive, you know, terrible, terrible uh man. But essentially he would borrow money from them and go and spend it at the pub. And then it would never be referenced again. You couldn't ask about it, it was gone. He would borrow it, but it's use of power. Yeah. Absolutely. And so for Cassie, you know, it was really interesting talking to her throughout the book because I said to her, Well, what kind of messaging did you have from that around money? And she literally for one sec.

unknown 24:34

Please.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Can I guess? Can I guess that her blockage around money was don't make more because it'll get taken away.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Bam.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Bam. It's never going to be really yours anyway. So why even learn how to make it or direct it or do anything with it? It's never it's never really yours anyway. Yeah. And that's just one story, but that just illustrates the mindset that most of us have unconsciously inherited from our families and you but like from the system as a whole.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah. And you know, like even uh the safety of money is choice. And I I don't want to be too repetitive, but I came from a many years ago I was in a domestic violent relationship and it was a long time ago, 2005 to 2010. And I always talk about how the fastest growing demographic of homelessness in Australia is women over 55 because they didn't have, you know, they took all that time off to raise the kids, didn't have super, didn't have all this money. Their husbands controlled the money, they're out on the street, they're living in their cars. It's horrendous. But I was obsessed with the movie Waitress. Have you ever seen it? And it's a musical now. Carrie Russell from Felicity. That was 2007 that came out. So right in the midst of me being in that, and he she has a violent husband, and she's pregnant, and she's hiding away money and just trying desperately to escape. And I remember her saying that she was writing a letter to her baby, I think, the upcoming baby, and she's like, There's just so a lack of freedom, just uh security when you're a woman, a lonely woman with no money. And it just resonated with me so much that like I was lucky enough to have, you know, a family to go home to, but so many women don't. And it's so, and you know, people will always ask, Oh, why did you stay? Because they might not have fucking options and they don't want to be homeless, and they especially don't want to make their children homeless. So, yeah, having like that financial literacy for women is really, you know, it's not just power, but it's safety, it's independence that we can not rely on dangerous men to feed and shelter ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Yeah. 100%. And often the avoidance around money is protection and it's biology, it's a biological response, you know, to keep us safe because we associate money with danger or with lack of safety. So a regulated nervous system thinks in years, and a dysregulated nervous system thinks in hours or days. So it has a huge impact on yeah, because it's all around short-term like survival versus long-term wealth building or investment. So when you were saying, like, listen, I've spent two seasons on health and wellness, that's a beautiful foundation because it is that's wealth building in its earliest form, is actually safety first, safety in the body. And only when we are safe can we physically, emotionally, can we begin to build. And that's something I've been really explicit about in the book. So it actually opens with a note on safety and it says if you are in a domestic violent relationship, if you're not physically safe, if you're not emotionally safe, then no amount of work you do, you know, financially, it will keep on getting disrupted because the first thing is actually getting you to safety. And we don't talk about that for women. We don't talk, like we talk about debt as this terrible thing, yeah, and that women need to stop buy now, pay later. And and yes, absolutely. But what about the debt incurred by leaving a domestic violence situation? Um, my friend Alina in the book, she escaped terrible DV with she and her two daughters. She had to flee across state lines, and you know, she incurred $30,000 in credit card debt because, like, just to get them to save it. Yep. And then it's like, well, okay, so now that's affecting the rest of her financial life. But she's being told that that debt is bad. Well, what about the system?

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Like 100%. Caitlin, I do so much reading into the nervous system. That's the first time I've heard that brilliant analogy of the regulated nervous system thinks in terms of years and the dysrelate dysregulated. It's it's the now, isn't it? Because it's in that panic mode. That's so brilliant. I'm actually recording a solo episode next week. I hope you don't mind. I'm gonna pinch that line. That's anything, anything.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

We shed power.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

We should have power. I always do no gatekeeping. My I always say, if I've gone to therapy and I've done that for years, you know, my my I know on an intellectual level what I need to do. It's about convincing my body or my nervous system, and it's very hard to do if trauma is stored. I was talking to a medical professional about I I've been trying seven months, haven't been able to fall pregnant with my second. And it's just so different, you know, like trying to do that when you have a toddler in the house as opposed to before, because I fell pregnant straight away with my son. But I said, Oh, but I don't feel stressed because my my stats, my bloods are showing that um I've got a hormone issue, and that's why it's not happening, even though I'm still fertile. And I said, But I don't feel stressed, I feel really good because I've put all these things in place. And he goes, You might not feel stressed in the brain, but the body might. And I said, Okay, so even something like as simple as, you know, I was having really disrupted sleep because my son's teething, that's stress to the body. So it's very different. The nervous system from the intellect is so different. Like you think you've got things all worked out, but the nervous system, it takes time to reprogram, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Hugely, and that's a beautiful way to put it. It it is so true. And what the stats measure is the financials, but it can't measure the nervous system impact. So we talk about the the caregiving years, and yes, we lose superannuation and we lose say, like, and and we and we begin behind, but also our bodies, you know, that takes emotional, mental, physical, cognitive load to actually be a mum. And yeah, I co-sleep with it with our nearly two-year-old. And I just said to my partner the other day, I haven't had a full night's sleep in two years. No, and like he does, and and I'm very lucky because is he in a separate bed?

SPEAKER_00 30:46

He is, yeah, we've got a one bedroom. Occasionally, one of us will come out to the couch, and I slept on the couch last night and got seven hours sleep and a 96% sleep score. I haven't had that in so long, and I have no guilt for it.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

And don't know, and don't you isn't it amazing? Because those those nights when you do get sleep, you're like, oh wow, this is what it's like.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

It's not you know it's the lack of sleep, yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Absolutely, and I'm very careful not to demonize men because I do recognise that the system is not actually optimal for them either. It's just that it was actively designed against women, so it it is. So, yeah. Exactly, yeah. But but I look at it and go, you know, I often compare my life to say a single man or a man who has a a full-time wife at home and can go do his work and come back and and sleeps all night. And I'm like, you know what? Anything I built is actually even more incredible because I don't like that's not the same starting point for me. So, and but we don't we don't think that we just go into oh gosh, I need to try more, I need to try harder, I need it's my fault.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Yeah, so interesting. I had another female guest this morning, she said, we're amazing. And I was like, Yes, we are amazing, we are so amazing. Like honestly, when you look back at how much we do and how much we're capable of, we're so amazing, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

And I like growing up, I didn't think that. And I mean, I'm from a very conservative, sort of cult adjacent upbringing, so very patriarchal. I was actually homeschooled, um, so I didn't even go to school because that was very um like you needed to be in the world, but not of the world, which meant you were going to be isolated and kept very, very safe. And it was really interesting. My progression through to, you know, I was very judgmental on women um for a lot of my journey, and that came from ignorance and it came from not understanding or seeing the system for what it was. And then, like the more I Caitlin, we all have been.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

We all have been, and and older generations, yeah, and when you when we were talking before about 1980 is when you know we got ability to what was it, sign for property, or is that the credit card?

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Without it, without a going to all, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

And I was gonna interrupt you and say, well, now you can see why, you know, baby boomer women can be more misogynistic or even Generation X. And you don't blame them because they're a product of a very patriarchal society. So the younger women have a really stronger sense of sisterhood. Well, why wouldn't they? They're grown up where we have more of a voice. So I don't hate on women. I'm disappointed when they judge other women, but we've it's big of us to admit that we've done it. I certainly have in the past, and I try not to do that at all now. Yeah. Yes. Jumping in with another message for my Sydney friends. If you're a pizza lover, you absolutely need to head out to Crenella and visit my friends at Queen Margarita of Savoy for traditional Neapolitan pizza and other Italian classic dishes. With my Sicilian background, you know that I've travelled to Italy many times over the years. I've eaten pizza all over Italy, including in Naples, and I swear to everyone I meet that Queen Margarita is still my absolute fave. I like simple classic flavours, so I highly recommend the traditional margarita and the three cheese pizza. Pubby loves the prosciutto and the pork and fennel. I also have a soft spot for the truffle arancini. Check them out at SurfRoad Cranella and the link in my show notes. You definitely will not be disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

There is a phenomenon called the Queen Bee phenomenon where, you know, women uh actively can of a certain age can oppress women coming through and discourage them. And it's almost that um mentality of I had it hard, so why should you have it easy? You know, I had to, I had to earn my stripes, I had to do this, so you shouldn't get a free ride.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

And in my teens and twenties, I always said I hated female bosses because that's how they were to me, like telling me what color bra I could wear under my white top and shit. And the men were focusing just on the bigger picture, and there was very much a insecurity of the women that someone's coming up to replace me. And look, even women in my family, I think, you know, yes, there's been that. Like they liked me when I was a kid and not as an adult. Like, is it a jealousy thing? Like, I'm gonna replace your authority or something. I don't know. It's um you're a threat.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

You're a threat. It's incredibly sad because it's the opposite end of the spectrum, right? Where we're talking about women's power and sharing and networking. And I think that's actually growing. But also just to acknowledge that that, you know, that attitude from some older women is actually a result of their, you know, they had to ex exist within a system that was actively built against them, and there wasn't the consciousness, and resources were so scarce, um, and and positions for women were so scarce that the system encouraged us to sort of keep that and not share. Whereas what I'm loving now is there's there is that change and there is that awareness, and there is that, hey, you know what? Life is really hard for me, but I want it to be different for you. You know, from parenting all the way through to the generation coming up. Yeah, it's exciting times.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

It's exciting times, but I think it's also nice to have uh sense of self-awareness because it removes the judgment of others. You have a sense of compassion. So I've again, the the guest I had earlier said uh her husband was saying, You don't judge people. She goes, No, I don't judge others nor myself. And it gives me that sense of compassion. And she was such an infectious personality in that it just makes you a much nicer person. If you can look at things from the other person's perspective. So if we, you know, it's disappointing if women judge other women, but when we can remove ourselves and and look at why, you can have this sense of compassion. And I just think it makes for a kind of just better feeling world, doesn't it? I love that.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

And coming from that abundance mindset rather than the scarcity. Yes. And you know, the like we're conditioned into that scarcity, but kind of going, no, no, no, like there's more than enough to share. And we actually increase power when we give it in the right, like to the right recipients in the right way. And if I'm showing up as my authentic self, then that's going to encourage other people to do the same. And I can live in my values despite what people do or say. Sometimes hard. It's very hard.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

It's always hard, but it's a beautiful way to live. Life's just more magical and more comes to you when you're in that abundant mindset. I completely agree. Uh, so many women in their 30s and 40s feel financially behind, even when they're objectively doing okay. Why do you think the feeling is so common right now?

SPEAKER_01 37:38

They're measuring themselves against a finished line that wasn't drawn for them.

unknown 37:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

So, and we touched on it really briefly, but we are comparing ourselves to people who do not have uninterrupted careers, who get full night's sleep, who have professional advantages, who don't have the super gaps, the unpaid care is obviously an hour extra per day for Australian women. And so that accumulates. And in a lifetime of earning, that's seven years of unpaid work that we do over our lifetime. Um, so you can't say that that's insignificant. So when we compare ourselves against that, we're always going to lose. And then the feeling is it's my fault I'm losing, but it's not, it's very structural.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Yes, that's so true. Yeah, that's why advocating for yourself for pay rises is so important, right? To make sure you're you're getting what you deserve. Yeah. 100%. I I heard someone say something like men um do that better. It's like an ego thing, like they feel less apologetic. I've I've always gone in for pay risers and always gotten them. But I I I think I've always had a sense of knowing my worth. So I think a lot of it comes down to that. That's why I always talk about working on the self is it adds to everything, your finance, your career.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Absolutely, absolutely. And um, in the book, I actually use the example of Katie and Steph. Um, this beautiful queer couple. They're just oh the most incredible, incredible girls. One works in finance, the other's um like a scientist. And together they actually sat down together. I love this, and they decided they were going to ask for a pay rise. You know, they did their research, they found out what the median would be. Um, they figured out they were underpaid, and then they actually put forward a dot by dot, you know, point of case for why they needed it. Yeah, and it was factual and it was logical. They spent an hour preparing together, walked in, um, and ended up with a combined $37,000 worth of pay rise for an hour's work. And like, how wonderful is that? And I love that their partnership, like, they have that relational capital, you know, where their relationship actually um increases their wealth, and you know, they've they've got that together. And yeah, and they could do that, and that's a huge part of being able to ask for what we're worth. And I also touch in the book on we all talk about imposter syndrome, and it's really interesting. The psych the psychologists that came up with that term in the 1970s actually called it the imposter phenomenon, but then the culture changed the word from phenomenon into syndrome. And when you say syndrome, it then becomes something that women have to work on, they have to fix about themselves. It's not a critique of the room, it's a critique of the woman. So I've actually recoined it and I'm not using imposter syndrome anymore. I'm using exclusion recognition because that's what it is. It is. We are just recognizing that the rooms weren't built for us and that we are excluded, and that becomes that's actually a systemic awareness instead of a oh gosh, this is a personal problem of mine.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Have you seen a new movie on Netflix called Ladies First with Sasha Barron Cohen? Have you seen it? I am obsessed.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

I watched it two nights ago and I was like, Reuben, you've got to read.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

You're like, it's so, it's so funny, but it's so spot on. Every little thing that they reverse, I'm like, I said to my husband, you see, that's how much it the double standards impact. You just don't see it because it's so just normalized in society. It's so brilliant. Everyone needs to watch. Is it ladies first? Is that what it's called? Ladies first. Oh my god. Every single thing, but especially, you know, the sexuality. I always put sexuality and money on the same thing, the the two taboo things to talk about where women can't claim that, and now we are. But yeah, it's it but that movie's brilliant. It really articulates how like how much of that happens in society all the time. And when you flip it, it becomes very obvious. Yeah. So clever.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

Absolutely. Oh, it just scratched a niche that I was, I just was, I was like, wow. And then it just like even watching it, I just thought, wow, it really is so pervasive and so ingrained. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Oh, no, you know what it's for me? All the men in the corner typing on laptops and taking notes, and all the well, when they flipped it, at first it was the women in the corner taking notes and the men in power, and then they flipped it. And I said to my husband, that has always been me. The coffee and tea bitch, the and I'm like, listen, I'm smarter than you, and you, and you, you know, but it just the doors weren't opening up to me, people weren't listening to me, and it's oh, I loved it. I loved it when they flipped and put the men in their little cardigans in the corner typing.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

I was like, this is 100%. Yeah, and even the the um like the billboard outside of fairy dishwashing liquid. Um, and then there was a naked man posing with this, you know, and I was like, We like we are still used in like anything domestic that's let's do a female.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Always uh noticing subtle shifts, you know, where they'll have um interracial couples in ads now, or the men might do a bit more housework. That's what society reflects, guys. Like, go and look out in their households, you know, it's not all white families. There are interracial, you know, and my husband does, you know, pitch in is not as good as you know as things that I do, but it's like he pitches in. So no, it was good. It's so well done, it's so detailed that movie. But look, it's real conversation stuff. Yeah, it is, it really, really is. Um, you've personally rebuilt your life through divorce, career changes, and depression. What did starting over financially teach you about resilience, identity, and self-worth?

SPEAKER_01 43:39

For me, it was really around the actions that I thought were so small were actually the work and they were the whole work. So every action after divorce or when you're rebuilding after, you know, illness or whatever it is, it is a small act of reclamation. And And I feel that that's never acknowledged. Like we always acknowledge the big moments of, hey, I bought a house, or hey, I'm going on this overseas holiday or hey, I'm doing this with our career. But we don't acknowledge those huge moments that are so tiny in the everyday. And for me, I remember standing in the grocery shop and we'd just broken up. I just remember crying about which dog food to buy because it was the straw on the camel's back. I always, you know, managed the finances. I led the way in terms of what properties to buy, investments. That was always me. I did most of the housework. I did most of the cooking. He did some yard work and bought dog food primarily. And I just remember there, it was just overwhelming because it was just, you know, talking to the lawyers and sorting out the property settlement stuff. And then like the emotional impact, trying to heal and grieve, but keep going and don't let it affect, you know, what my work life and don't let it affect my other dynamics. And then like all on top of it was just building, building, building, and then dog food, and I just was crying in the grocery shop like a weirdo. And I think that no one sort of acknowledges those tiny moments of just going, okay, I bought dog food for the first time in years, and it's not going to be so hard next time. And okay, I've just signed the papers, or I've made an appointment with a lawyer, or I've made an appointment with a financial advisor, or I've taken myself out for a walk today and I really didn't feel like it, or I've made that appointment with the psychologist. All of those little things, you know, I've just put $30 into my savings account, I've just shut my joint account, all those things that no one else sees that are a huge part of the work of financially and in every way rebuilding. And I I will also say that every quality that you have and that you build during your phoenix moment, in and what I call it in the book, is that moment where you rise again through these your repeated small actions. Every quality that requires wealth building is actually built through that phoenix time. You know, the ability to tolerate risk, the ability to pivot quickly and to make it.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

But that's funny you say that because there's so much um data around the biggest companies in the world started after GFC, the depression, those times when people thought things were ended, that's when the really works were built. So yeah. Yeah, elementary. Yeah. Yes, things need to crumble to be able to build, don't they? So it is a female.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Hundred percent. 100%. And I also think it was for me coming from my very um traditional, very um patriarchal background and religious background, divorce was the worst thing that could happen to you. It was worse than death. You know, it actually would have been easier if if my husband had died in some ways, my ex-husband had died, because it wasn't then going to be my fault. I wasn't going to be um told, oh, you should have tried this, you should have done that. The unspoken message wasn't going to be you should have tried harder. And because I'd worked so hard on that relationship, and it was like resuscitating a dead body. You know, he just he didn't want to be there, but he didn't have, you know, the ability to tell me.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

And so I was working so hard and and you know, like, oh, do you think exhausting today working hard when someone's not wanting the yeah? There's nothing lonelier than being in the wrong relationship. Like, there's just divorce doesn't have to be a bad thing. And you know, sometimes too, like it might have been a bad partner, or sometimes with people, it's more that they were for that season of your life, and then you outgrow them, and then it might be someone else. So I don't really necessarily see divorce as a bad thing. I know that it can be out of hurt and grief involved, but yeah, staying in the uncomfortable is just so much worse, like in the long term, like taking away dangerous relationships, just um yes, putting up with what's okay, it's the kind of life I ever want to live.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

I agree, and I I do. I think that and you know, there comes a point where it's not a healthy dynamic sometimes. And if both partners aren't committed to, you know, changing that, or if the load is on one partner and it's often the female to, you know, to contort, to adapt, to change, and it's still, I just feel like for me, divorce was a reclamation. It was incredibly painful, and it, you know, my depression rapidly followed that because I didn't process it properly because I bottled it all down and I kept on working. And the the lessons you avoid are the ones that chase you, um, as the saying goes, and they'll keep on chasing you till you confront them. And for me, divorce turned into a huge phoenix moment where I actually went, the worst thing that could have happened to me it from my upbringing actually did, and I'm still here. I survived, and if I can survive this, I can do anything because this is my worst fear. And I think there's this special freedom that comes and this sense of freedom when you're like, I survived something that I was brought up to believe could not be endured or survived, and I'm still here, and this is not the end. This is just this is a chapter, and it's going to like there's more to come. So that would be my biggest thing. That the qualities that you evolve during those times, that you know, that courage and the risk taking and the willingness to do the work, that is actually exactly what building wealth, building a company requires.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

That's beautiful. You're not the first guest at all, you know, and you're not even the first finance guest to talk about that Phoenix moment after a divorce. I think it's, you know, there's something very stifling about being in the wrong relationship. And it you certainly, whether you go single or into a healthier relationship, there's certainly an empowering thing about stepping away. But I love what you said so much about the micro things. And I think that's why it's so important to pat yourself on the back to the little wins. And I've always been a terrible saver and was never good with money. When I started putting that little bit into savings and my son's savings and my shares and just seeing it grow bit by bit, it's just such a comforting feeling. Like I feel so good. But what jumped in my head the second you said about the small things was it's not finance related, but when I used to have people many years ago, I might give details that who were, you know, silencing me was the first time I said no. And I used to be a fly off the handle, scream and cry, and I just went, and it was my it shocked people that were trying to keep me silent. It was my first moment of, oh, I can do this again. And it became a muscle that I strengthened over time and over time, those boundaries and oh best thing of my life. So it's yeah, those micro movements, they're not Instagram worthy, but they're the things that you remember in the in the dark nights when you want to remind yourself how powerful you are. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Very 100%. And they compound, they just like money, they compound over time and they do directly lead to wealth. It can take time, but yes, it's just that compounding effect.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Yeah, I think we're also in a society of um they want that instant gratification, and it's not things can take time, uh, you know, there's the behind the scenes work. Yeah, I love that so much. Uh, you talk about financial sovereignty rather than just wealth accumulation. What does financial sovereignty actually look like for women in real life, especially mothers juggling a million invisible responsibilities?

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Financial sovereignty and self-sovereignty is something I'm so passionate about. And I really view it as wealth isn't then a number, it's the number that allows your life or that life allows. So it's actually building a life where you have choice and you have agency and then legacy comes into it as well. And we're really conditioned to view wealth as only assets, wealth as property or shares. But wealth is also legacy, and it's actually sharing and giving and showing the next generation, or even sideways, when we're saying to a girlfriend, hey, have you, you know, seen this article, or have you listened to this show, or you know, the way that we're we're sharing knowledge right now and sharing power. So I think for mothers in particular, and speaking for myself, wealth for me and sovereignty is for for me is going, okay, I want to spend, you know, no more than 25, 30 hours a week at work. And I want, I want to do work because that really fulfills me, but I want to do work that actually lights me up, and I'm going to pursue that and I'm going to invest my time and my energy in that. It's all it's spending time with my daughter. For us, it's my partner staying, you know, home and actually caretaking for Auri as well while I work. It's weekends off together as a family. And for everyone, it's going to look different. You know, for some people, it could be that designer car. But for us, it's really at this stage of our lives, it's it's around time and and wealth and sovereignty sort of gives us that time and that choice on where to put it. And and that touches back on what we talked around priorities changing, you know, at different seasons of your life.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

Yeah, that's beautiful. And that's definitely something that parenthood's brought up for me as well. And it's it's the time I value more. But you know what I reckon really, really helps you to find what you value is when you really start, you know, like I think that people get caught up just in the autopilot of life. And then when you stop and say, and this is why I always talk about lockdowns. Yes, they were bad for a lot of reasons and businesses and that, but it was, it gave some people, like office workers like myself, that that space and time to look at their life and go, well, what do I want to change? What do I value? What lights me up? What brings, you know, what makes me feel wealthy and abundant? And that's definitely something that I stop. I have a lot of reflection now. You know, like I sat here last night, my son has now started counting and saying the alphabet. And I said to my husband, how lucky are we? Oh no, I think I said how abundant are we? Because I'm like, I'm my husband's not out at work in the evenings as much lately, which is amazing because he's always out. We're watching a show on Netflix together, my son's sitting there playing, and I'm like, oh my God, I'm so abundant. This is so good. Like, you know, and it's um we have been conditioned to see it as physical things or financial things, but it's it's it's an all-encompassing thing. I know a lot of financially wealthy people with poor physical health or you know, lonely in relationships. So it's good to look at the whole. And I I always encourage women to sit down and just write down, A, what are you good at? What can you do? How can you make money from it? And what do you value? I just think it's a great framework for you for a happy, healthy life.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

Uh, I and I think that choice, you know, really to go, okay, what do I want and how do I get there? And actually sitting through, and and part of the book is around, like, let's actually set some goals and not as a, you know, like a punishment or as a far-off thing, but more around what lights me up, what fulfills me, and where is my time going now? And what return on my energy can I actually get? Because we talk a lot, Steph, about return on investments, but when we apply that to our actual lives, like where is the return on our energy? And where are we, you know, putting out in or outputting our energy in certain places that we're not getting a return on? And that can be relationships, um, that can be, you know, things like household work. And then let's look at the return on other, you know, things we invest our energy on, like good relationships that uphold us and that that are healthy and strengthen us and health, even like returning that energy, like going to the gym or doing that walk or just spending five minutes in the sun, having a good quality supplement. So I'm really big on that as well, just looking, where is your energy going and what and how is it returning to you? Is it, you know, really low return on energy, or you know, where can we put it into higher producing outcomes that's going to actually support the life that we want to live?

SPEAKER_00 56:16

I love that. Assessing your life on a regular basis is something I preach all the time. I love that so much. Yes. This show, as you might know by listening, is all about filling up your cup. So I do like to ask my guests what's something you'll be doing for yourself in the next week to fill up your cup.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

I love that. I love this question so much. Um, I actually just a very quick little segue, but my partner and I do um, I don't know if you've heard of Brene Brown's percent system. She uses it like a fuel tank, but we use it as an oxygen tank because for me, somehow, I think because of conditioning, it's like filling my cup sounds luxurious and it sounds extravagant, which is not true at all. Like it's like water. If we don't have a full glass of water to hydrate, we actually can't function and we shut down. But for me, it's actually helped my brain in with the reject that conditioning to put it in oxygen tank. Um, so my partner and I go, How much do you have in your tank today? And Brene Brown uses it as fuel, but we go, literally oxygen, literally survival here. And if I say to Ruben, okay, I'm at 20% and I've got three articles to write, and I've got, you know, Ori screaming, and you know, I've got three loads of washing on, and you know, um this is happening at work. And he'll be like, okay, okay, I'm at 65%. We're very accurate, by the way, very accurate. Um, and he's like, I'm at 65%. Why don't I take Ori for three hours? Will that give you enough time to do? And I'm like, oh yes. And then he's like, what can you do for yourself? What can you do to fill your cup? And I'm like, well, I could go for a walk. He's like, great, go for a walk. And then he's like, and then when I come back, if you could just have Ori for a couple of hours so I can get my projects done, you know, because I'll and I'm like, yes. And it just has helped us so much.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

Because then it's not I'm laughing because if you listen to a lot of my previous episodes, I have referenced Brene Brown's percentage thing. I'd say at least seven times, but the percentage I used was 20 and 60. So when you said 20 and 65, I'm laughing, like, oh, this is gold. But I love that, and I say it to my husband all the time because I'll watch him a lot, but he doesn't do that. My husband gets in a his name's Alan. We call it the Alan bubble. He um he can only really focus on one thing. He's a beautiful, kind man, everyone loves him, but I have to verbalize what I need. He's not good at reading, and that's not his strength, so that's fine. So Saturdays, uh, he takes my son to swimming, and I might either do me, go for a run, or you know what? Sitting and editing podcasts, people might think that's work. Do you know how much I love that? Like, I like this chat with you now is filling up my cup for the week. Tomorrow he'll take him to swimming. I'll probably edit this episode, and that's really filling up my cup because it's in a quiet house. I don't know if she feels guilty. Because I do most of the parenting during the week. But now that he's in daycare, I'm like, well, I'm not doing as much, but it's okay. And my husband has more free time on the weekends. So him taking him on a Saturday for me just to do things for myself guilt-free is the ultimate cup filler. But I do love the percentage thing. I'm very big on that in my house.

SPEAKER_01 59:25

It removes like the emotion out of it, isn't it? Because then it becomes statistical, it's just data, it's not personal, it's not even saying to him, you know, like I'm at this and you're like, and we're not comparing, it's just factual and it just removes so much of the guilt out of it for me. I just, it's a game changer.

SPEAKER_00 59:43

Um it's very kind and respectful to your partner too, to look at the percentages like that, but not as a scorekeeping thing. Because I used to say for 10 years we didn't do any scorekeeping until our son came along, and then it was, I said, we both verbalized, like, oh, I did this and I did that. And I said, we need to stop doing that because we're doing it to point out to the other one how much work.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

Oh, I'm really glad you said that because I it's exactly the same for me. It's very much when Auri came along, suddenly there was less time, less energy, less sleep, and a whole new life, you know, to sustain. And yeah, like sometimes it is that comparison, sometimes the resentment of being like, Well, you got to sleep, you know, you know, bed by yourself for seven hours last night, and I were, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

You never did it before, my son.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

Yeah, huge. For me, my and it might be because of my last name, which is bath, but I love baths, like there's something about being in water, but that's luxury. That just oh, that is, and it just like it sometimes I can be so in my head that actually getting in warm water, it just kind of connects my head and my body.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:51

But there's something about water because if you swim in the ocean and if you have a hot bath or even a good hot shower, there's something about water, isn't it? That brings you into the present moment, I think, and takes it. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:01

There was um there's a study I'm meaning to read, I will send it to you. Okay, so around a, I think a marine biologist around how water actually, like physiology, all of it. Yeah, and and why we feel like we do when we're in and around water. Um, so I'm gonna find it. I've locked it away in my mental to look at. Yes, because I I feel that it it relaxes me and like, yeah, 30 minutes there, and I'm out with just fresh.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

It's really so much. I just remembered something back to the scorekeeping. I'm reversing the scorekeeping now. So I'll be like, I had a girl's night, you go take a guy's night. So I reverse it of I've had, you have. You know, like you know, we've done this now, you go do that. So yeah, it's it's it's very good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:48

And it comes back to that abundance versus deficit model as well, kind of going, Well, hey, I'm feeling really good. I've given these things to myself today. I've made, you know, time in my day. Um, and they I can see you're a bit tired. So you go because I'm good.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

I think it's preempting the burnout. Whereas when they're a newborn, you're in survival, there's no preempting. But when the the kids become a bit more autonomous, you can preempt that stuff and be like, what can I put in place to avoid that burnout? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:15

100%. And you can your pattern recognition gets better, right? Because you've had them for longer and you can go, okay, we're we're running pretty fast this week, but by the weekend, we're gonna crash, we'll all be in tears. Isn't that funny?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

They're such a stranger when they first come into your life, and now you're like, I know what you're gonna do today. Yeah, it's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:33

Yes, it just helps, and then you can recalibrate and go, okay, well, we're gonna change a couple of things today to you know, fill our cups, fill our oxygen tanks, and then it means that the weekend's not gonna be everyone just crashing and burning if you can actually enjoy ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:49

Weekends shouldn't be for recovering from the week, they should be for enjoyment. It's R R. Yeah, totally okay. Yeah, we've got a music festival around here and sunshine in Sydney this weekend for the first time in about two weeks. So I will be out getting that vitamin D hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

I'm gonna try and avoid doing work, but I love your work, so I'll probably do something. I know it's a fine line sometimes. I'm the same. I'm like, I'll just do this. And sometimes, honestly, if mentally you are going to think about it the whole time anyway, may as well just do it, get it out of the way. That's that's my philosophy.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

I agree with that so much. I actually go to bed feeling accomplished, like, oh, I edited that episode. I'm good. Caitlin, we could talk for five hours. I you are such a beautiful human. I have enjoyed this chat so much. I wish we were in the same city, but if you are in city, please let me know. But we'll stay in touch on socials, send me any stupid thing online that you think I'll like. But um, you're a beautiful human. I love what you're doing. It's so beneficial for women, and I'm so excited to read your book. So, everyone check the links in the show notes 100%, and I can't wait to read it. And I I think we might do a part two after I've read it. I'll probably have it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:55

I would love that. Thank you so much. I could just talk to you for hours, but thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for the amplification of women's experiences, and I'm so excited to connect with you, share power, um, and shake the earth with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:09

Oh, love that so much. Everybody, I hope you got so much out of this episode. I know you did. Do check out those links in the show notes and please do something in the next week to fill up your cup. Thank you again for being here today. I hope that this episode brought some value to you. I look forward to your company in the next episode, and please connect with me on socials to keep this love fest going. Feel free to DM me with any questions at all. And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a loved one or in your Insta stories. And if you're feeling super generous, a review on Apple Podcasts would be greatly appreciated. I'll catch you in the next episode.