Can I Get a Refill?

Why People Believe in You but Still Don’t Buy: The Missing Link Between Confidence & Conversion – with Stacey Ellis Fisher🌟

• Ballpoint • Season 3 • Episode 80

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What happens when people like you… believe in you… trust you… but still don’t buy from you?

In this episode, I sit down with brand strategist and conversion copywriter Stacey Ellis Fisher, founder of Conversion Copy (formerly Clevr Copy), to unpack the hidden gap between visibility and conversion — and why so many talented women are unintentionally underselling themselves.

We dive into the psychology of authority, the fear many women have around taking up space online, and how years of conditioning around being “humble” can quietly sabotage business growth, opportunities, and income.

Whether you’re building a business, personal brand, podcast, creative career, or simply learning to communicate your value more confidently, this conversation is packed with practical insights and powerful mindset shifts.

We discuss:

  • The difference between a visibility problem vs an authority problem 
  • Why being “good at what you do” isn’t always enough 
  • The messaging mistakes keeping people stuck 
  • How women can market themselves without feeling fake or salesy 
  • The link between self-worth, confidence, and conversion 
  • Simple ways to communicate your value more clearly online 

This episode is your reminder that shrinking yourself doesn’t serve anyone — and learning how to own your voice is part of building the life you actually want.

Have a listen to our chat, or watch the full video on YouTube here.

Thanks for tuning in today to The Can I Get a Refill? Podcast, and be sure to jump on my website (below) to download a free 33 page eBook on 7 Steps to Protect Your Energy & Fill Up Your Cup. 

You cannot pour from an empty cup, so I’ve designed a guide to help you take care of yourself, in order to uplevel your life. Download it today and make yourself a priority in 2026!

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SPEAKER_01

Jumping in here to talk directly to my Sydney friends about one of my absolute favourite cafes, Pilgrims Crenolla. Now located in their gorgeous new location opposite South Crenolla Park, with expanded indoor and outdoor seating, including pet-friendly tables out front, and delicious food, juice, and coffee. The menu is full of wholesome, vegger-friendly eats that feel both nostalgic and nourishing. Expect brecky wraps, vibrant salads, smoothies, fresh juices, and some of the best plant-based sandwiches going. I strongly recommend the corn fritters and the chai shake, which is definitely big enough for two. Check them out on Insta and be sure to visit when you're next in Crenella. I'm recording this episode on the lands of the Darowal people and pay my respects to their elders. As this is a digital platform, I also want to pay my respects to the traditional custodians of the lands on which you, our listeners, are based, and acknowledge that you are telling stories on these lands too. Welcome to Can I Get a Refill? A podcast for ambitious women who are tired of pouring from an empty cup, but still want to grow, evolve, and build a life they're proud of. Through a mix of comforting solo episodes and inspiring conversations with industry professionals, authors, wellness experts, and entrepreneurs, we talk about what it really looks like to refill your cup while up-leveling your life. Topics include mental, emotional, and physical wellness, hormonal health, manifestation, career and finance, boundaries, self-trust, and redefining success on your own terms. Hosted by me, Steph Bruno Newton, each weekly episode is designed to motivate, ground, and empower you to take care of your needs and go after the life you actually want. Pour yourself a cup, take a breath, and let's refill it together. Today's guest is Stacy Ellis Fisher, brand strategist, conversion copywriter, and founder of Clever Copy, which has now been rebranded to Conversion Copy. Stacy helps experts, entrepreneurs, and thought leaders turn their ideas, expertise, and personal brands into messaging that actually converts. Without sounding robotic, overly salesy, or inauthentic. In today's conversation, we unpack why so many brilliant women still struggle to communicate their value, the difference between visibility and authority, and how years of conditioning around being likable and humble can impact not only the way we show up online, but also the opportunities and income we attract. Whether you're building a business, creative career, personal brand, or simply learning to own your voice more confidently, then this episode is for you. Thank you for being here again for the Can I Get a Refill Podcast. If you're new, I'm Steph, I'm your host, and I help women stop pouring from an empty cup and start building a life that actually supports them. Be sure to jump on the website www.can Igetarefill podcast.com.au, linked below to download your free ebook on seven steps to protect your energy and fill up your cup. Every area of your life, including career and finance, comes back to the relationship you have with yourself. So make sure it's a very strong one. Download it today and make yourself your number one priority. Okay, now let's jump in. Hello, my cup fillers, and welcome back to the Canada Refill Podcast. As just promised, we are joined by a very special guest today, Stacey Ellis Fisher. Stacey, thanks so much for being on the podcast today. Thanks for having me. I'm very delighted to have this conversation. You're a real pro at what you do, but the audience will know I talk about frequently. A year ago, I left the nine to five. I'm doing my business. I do sales for my husband's business. So both he and I are delighted to have a chat for me to have a chat with you today and pick up some tidbits. I'm really, really excited to talk about you specifically from the female perspective. Of I was always, for years, I'm I seemed very confident and chatty, and I was always like, oh, I'm good at customer service, but not sales. And that was just something that I told myself because I always felt like, I don't want to put people out. You know, I don't want to put them out. But the older I've gotten and the more aligned I am with what I'm selling, the more confident I've gotten with that. So I'm actually really excited to get your perspective on that. And I presume that's um something that you hear a lot. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yeah. I work with a lot of women. Uh, I don't know whether it's just because I'm a woman and therefore women feel more comfortable working with me. I work with men too. They don't have a preference, but uh yeah, I do work with a lot of women. And because I am helping them, you know, I'm a conversion copywriter, so I help them so close to the point of sale. Yeah, I it really brings up a lot of that resistance from women, and that and they say that a lot. I I you know I'm not good at sales, and it really is just a mindset thing.

SPEAKER_01

It's a mindset thing, it's something that we've probably been conditioned to hear because we've heard other people say it. Uh, just give your business a little plug. Tell us about your business and when you when you started that. How long have you been doing that for?

SPEAKER_00

Uh so I have been copywriting my whole career. I did start out in brand and digital marketing, but I really focused in retrained as a conversion copywriter specifically. So that's a conversion copywriter is different to what I used to do back in the day when I worked on big ideas and agencies. It is somebody who is trained in user experience and also copy. And we bring those together and write sales copy specifically, and I write mainly website copy at uh a business that was called Clever Copy, but I've just rebranded to Conversion Copy.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I didn't know about the rebrand. Oh, great, excellent. I was actually just looking on your Instagram and you um posted one of my favorite movie scenes from Bridget Jones's diary. Mr. Titsperfect, Mr. Titsperf. Mr. Fitzherbert, because that is his name. I love that. Excuse my randomness, but I just love that scene so much. And before I get into the juicy questions, you had a little offer for my listeners if you want to just let us know what that is.

SPEAKER_00

I did, and your listeners will be the very, very first people to access this. So I would very much encourage them to be brutally honest in their feedback because I'm still I'm still not sure whether the app is as good as it could be. Uh so I have downloaded 20 years of all of my brand messaging and conversion copy training and knowledge into a knowledge base in an AI app. And people can submit their website pages to that app and it will give you a really comprehensive, very thorough report into what is working and what is not from a conversion point of view on your website. So that is Oh, I love that. Yeah, that's conversioncopy.app. And if any of your listeners would like to access 10 free pages, they just need to enter the code STEF at checkout and it can scan 10 pages of their website and give them a comprehensive audit of each of those pages from a conversion copy point of view.

SPEAKER_01

And I can do that too. I appreciate you can already. I will be doing that this weekend. That's awesome. I love that. Yeah, I I've just started a coaching business and I have I have not had time to sit and look at my website, and I'm sure you hear that a lot, but I've just been recording back-to-back episodes and I'm like, but funnily enough, I don't record all through July because Mercury is in retrograde and it stuffs up communication technology, and I would never risk that with my VIP guests. So that will be my downtime of working on my the back end of things. So I'm happy, looking forward to doing that. But this episode will probably be airing by that time, to be honest. And one last thing before we do jump in, just on the topic of AI. It's like everything in the world, politics, environment, it's very divisive and it's very I'm always seeing points from both sides. I don't believe in being very black and white. I'm sort of open to learning new things all the time. But especially with females, because of the Reese Witherspoon post about women should get into it or Mel Robbins. And I understand writers feeling let down, or I understand that Mel Robbins has, I think, some sort of financial interest and something backing AI. So I understand why people are looking into it, but I also don't like people attacking celebrities for having an opinion. And I love race.

SPEAKER_00

So can I just quickly ask me? Attack all the other billionaires, but not my race. Really? She's always been there for us, Stacey.

SPEAKER_01

No, I'm looking at the later stuff. I like the book club and all that. But look, what's what's your take on AI?

SPEAKER_00

I think it's useful to separate out a small language model from a large language model. So what most people have concerns with are large language models which scrape everything from the internet. And, you know, there's all these copyright issues. A small language model is a knowledge base that an individual creates for the purposes of their own customer base. So the app that I have created, you know, at full transparency, there is an element of LLM to my app, but the knowledge base is actually my own. So it's essentially a small language model. And we've been using those for decades. Uh Grammarly is a small language model. The other thing I think it's it's worth thinking about is that the big data centers that are in production at the moment, which are causing, I mean, data centers just generally, again, full transparency. I'm not like trying to claim that it's super ethical. The data centers that are being produced at the moment, created at the moment, are mainly for surveillance and for data, like, you know, analyzing our data. It's not helping you write your emails. It's not for I didn't know. And they're not for they're not for AI slot. That capacity currently exists.

SPEAKER_01

The because the things I've seen out of the US of the water pressure being down, brown water coming out of the tap. Honestly, I don't watch the news at the best of times, but I'm like, oh, I just feel like you can't win, you can't do anything right. And it's like I was so morally opposed to AI when it first came out, purely because I've always been a creative. I'm, you know, I used to do singing and songwriting, and I my brother writes music for films, and I'm like, that you know, those jobs will go. And I just felt really betrayed by it. But I don't want to be left behind either. So I, as I said, I'm open, I see both sides, but the environmental impact is what stresses me out and keeps me.

SPEAKER_00

And I think the left behind messaging is in it of itself quite manipulative because a lot of AI is a solution in need of a problem, right? There's, you know, we've got all these billionaire tech barons who are kind of trying to push AI onto us that we never asked for, that isn't actually solving any of our problems. There is some good AI that will be useful or it's currently useful, but the like the left behind messaging really grinds my gears.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's when people were against Reese and and Mel Romans because then then they do were doing a lot, a lot of parody posts about, you know, here I am being left behind. But the the thing with me is I'm always like outsourced when it's something you can't do yourself. For writing, I would never because I love writing. I want every piece of writing that I do to be in my voice and my tone. And, you know, that's when people people connect with my writing still probably more than the podcast because it's really my authentic tone of voice. I mentioned it in another episode, I did a human design chart, and it is like, I don't know, 50 to 100 pages long. It's absolute gibberish to me. And I like this is stuff that I'm interested in. I'm like, oh, I don't understand the fucking word of this.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I had it sitting there for months, always wanting to know what it meant. And I'm like, oh, I'm just gonna put this into AI within like seven seconds. I had a full understanding of it that I'm able to help use me in my work. And I was like, okay, so to me, that was value added. That's something I just couldn't get my head around. It sat there for months. That was a problem there, creative.

SPEAKER_00

Right, AI provided a solution. It wasn't a solution in need of a problem. Like that's you know, and that's I guess the app is that's how I see it. Is it's not something that I have the capacity to provide my customers myself. I do do a human roast, and people can upgrade to what I call a copy roast, you know, where I sort of, you know, roast their page. But that's I just saw that on your site.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So it'll continue to divide us, I'm sure, but it's again, I just want to be open to learning new things and learning more with before I cast my judgments. Okay, let's jump into it. So so many women are incredibly talented, experienced, and trustworthy, yet they still struggle to attract opportunities or clients from my perspective. You can correct me if I'm way off there. Why do you think women in particular have such a hard time confidently communicating their value?

SPEAKER_00

I think it's that, and I don't want to make this too much, you know, men and women are so different because I think in the world right now divisive. Yes, you know. Um, but there is a biological reality for women where rejection from the in-group has greater consequences for us, you know, deep in our kind of psyches than it does for men. And why more for us? Well, I guess because we're we carry babies and need protection in those moments of vulnerability, and our offspring need protection. And so, you know, it's not been a long time since we were in caves, and and so rejection from the in-group, we rely so heavily for our physical needs on the on the tribe. I think that we still carry this deep. A lot of it is the way that we are brought up, but a lot of it is our training. But some of it is this kind of deep psycholog physiological fear of hearing no, of being rejected from the in-group. That's just my personal opinion. I am no sociologist, but I that's just what I that's why I feel uh women are so afraid of selling themselves and being rejected. And the solution is just to really concentrate on the consequences of hearing no. So if so let's say you pitch for a job, the worst that can happen is a feeling. Somebody says no to you, that's it. And then you get to move on to the next pitch. And I think if women spent more time out of their heads and actually, you know, with their journal in front of them, thinking, okay, I'm gonna pitch for this, I'm gonna ask, I'm gonna sell, what's the worst that can happen? Well, they say no. And they could say no for any number of reasons. How many times in your life have you said no to something because your own finances weren't in a place to be? It's not personal. It's not personal. It's not a rejection of you or your knowledge, or it might be, and so what? Like that's just again, just a feeling that you have to deal with. They might think that you're shit. Okay, it's just a feeling. The consequences of never asking, of never are worse, are worse, are so much worse.

SPEAKER_01

I love that so much. And I always say to people, what's the worst they can say? No, like it's not that bad. And I really like what you said there. You've highlighted something I was talking about the other week that most sports people, it seems unrelated, but hang in there. Most sports people will visualize the ending. They'll visualize them winning. Michael Phelps, who I think is the greatest swimmer of all time, stats-wise, he used to visualize things going wrong. So that when things and things do go wrong in life, so when they did come up, he was able to not panic and go, okay, so in my visualization, when this happened, I did this. Now it's sort of the same thing, really. What you're saying is get get comfortable in that uncomfortable. Like get tap into that feeling of being told no, it's not that bad. And, you know, as I said, I've always been in customer service where, you know, I like to see people leave with a smile on their face that I've created a solution for them. And so when I started going out on the road doing sales to my husband, and you get way more no's than yeses, but it's not a no in the long run. It might be a they have to think about it, they come back to us in in a few months and they're like, yes, we'll take that business on. It's just wasn't right then. But the feeling used to make me feel flat because I was so used to people being, but I'm a recovering people pleaser. So the pat on the head of, oh, you did a good job with customer service wasn't necessarily there with sales. But now it it just doesn't impact me at all. I'm like, I know, like you said, you know, they might not have the money right now. They but and and then very often they're coming back to us later at a different time. So it's like I just get in their face and get in their face. You know, what they say, it's like seven to fourteen times to see a brand for it to register.

SPEAKER_00

So I think it's I think that's that's those are old stats. I've been hearing those stats for years. I think that's been pushed out, you know, because we're so overwhelmed with messaging now, they need to hear us more.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yes. Well, that's probably why people are posting so often on socials now. So I would love what you said there so much.

SPEAKER_00

For your for your listeners who are recovering people pleasers, I would or currently people, I would offer an alternate thought as well. Because if you genuinely want the best for your customer, if that's your goal, if that's your mission, is that your customer uh gets the best experience and they go with somebody else. I'm not the best copywriter in the world, I'm not Eugene Schwartz. Someone might go to another copywriter who might give them a better experience. And that's great because my mission is for them to have a really great website that converts really well that gives them financial opportunities. So if the worst that even if they never come back to you, even if they think you're terrible and they go on and they use somebody else and they have a great time experience, well, that's okay too.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

There's so many customers in the world. There are so many, there is enough to go around.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, I love that. I say that all the time, but I just love how you're removing the emotion there. It's like it's it's not personal. What's the worst thing that can happen? And it is, it's like that panicked feeling of I won't be accepted. And I always say this like rejection hurts, you know, like with friend groups or colleagues, you're built to be part of the tribe for your survival. So it it's normal, it's okay that you feel that, but it's sort of, you know, reprogramming the mind, isn't it? That it's not it's not about you.

SPEAKER_00

And the objective isn't to never feel bad when someone rejects you. The objective is because I still feel bad to this day. When someone says no or goes with a competitor, I feel rejected. It's human. Yeah. But the objective is to not let that stop me from keep making offers because it's that serves nobody.

SPEAKER_01

Love that so much. What's that old saying? Fall down seven times, stand up eight. I love it. I love tenacity. I just think it's very sexy, especially in a woman. Yeah. You talk about the difference between a visibility problem and an authority problem. I hear I hear this a lot. Can you explain what that actually means and how someone can tell which one they really have?

SPEAKER_00

Uh, their stats. So they're they sh, you know, they're for me, I'm a website copywriter. I will say how many people come to your website, and I, you know, I I'll I always ask for access to their Google Analytics first. How many people are seeing your posts on LinkedIn or socials or whatever? If that is if that is a good number, you don't have a visibility problem. But if no one is converting down the bottom of funnel, you have an authority problem. So I am never there are there are people that I will never ever buy from, no matter how many times I see their advertising because there's no values aligned, or they're not offering something that I feel that I need.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

But if people are coming to your website and they're not converting, you haven't given them enough reason to believe that you can help them. So they're Yeah, because if they're visiting your website, they're interested in you. Right? And most most of the time that's because you haven't clearly articulated a clear point of view. You've you're blending into the competitive set because there's no reason for you to stand out.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Or do you think that's a confidence issue? There's a there's a few things that it could be. Some of my clients just treat their websites like a brochure. And they're like, well, if I just tell people what I do, yeah, they will come and if they need me, they will come and utilize my services. And for some people, it's a confidence thing. They don't want to sell themselves. They don't want to be like, hey, I have these qualifications. I'm the best person for the job. And so there'll be, there'll always be this. I'll be able to tell very quickly in the job which one of those problems that they have, because they'll resist me when we're in the we're in the briefing process and I'm like, oh my god, it's so clear to me that this is your point of view, this is so interesting, and they'll be like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Uh no, that's every doesn't everybody think that? No, no, that's your secret source, that's your zone of genius. That's a confidence thing. But if they're quite happy for me to go, oh yeah, I'm so clear that that's that's your secret source, and I'm gonna put that in your copy, and they're like, Yeah, sure. But that's just uh they haven't thought about it.

SPEAKER_01

Great. Yes, lack of knowledge. That's why it's so helpful sometimes to have that third party to see things that you don't see. Because I always say I'm a creative, like the numbers, the analytics, I I shut down. My brain emotionally shuts down. So it's good to have someone to lean on for that. Jumping in with another message for my Sydney friends. If you're a pizza lover, you absolutely need to head out to Crenella and visit my friends at Queen Margarita of Savoy for traditional Neapolitan pizza and other Italian classic dishes. With my Sicilian background, you know that I've travelled to Italy many times over the years. I've eaten pizza all over Italy, including in Naples, and I swear to everyone I meet that Queen Margarita is still my absolute fave. I like simple classic flavours, so I highly recommend the traditional margarita and the three cheese pizza. Hubbby loves the prosciutto and the pork and fennel. I also have a soft spot for the Travel Orangini. Check them out at Surf Road Cranella and the link in my show notes. You definitely will not be disappointed. A lot of people think selling means being pushy or performative. How do you help people market themselves in a way that still feels authentic and aligned with who they are?

SPEAKER_00

I asked them how, so we go through this process where you know we do their features and benefits analysis and we will get all their product features, all their own personal features, everything about them down into a spreadsheet down one column. And then we pull out all the functional, social, and emotional benefits of those things. And they get to see in black and white. These are all the ways that I help my customers. These are all the ways that I'm providing value. And once they see it in black and white, they tend to get over that resistance. Like they don't feel pushy anymore because we've put that the benefits of what they're providing into the context of helping others. So the you are like all of us, if you're not, if you're not genuinely helping your customers, then you shouldn't be in business. Most of us are genuinely, no one gets up in the morning and says, you know what I want to do? I want to give thousands of dollars to a copywriter. No one wants to do that. They want more sales on their website, right? So I help them, I help them, you know, achieve what they want to achieve. I'm helping them. And I think that's that exercise gets them into that mindset where they really think, oh, these are all the ways that I actually help people. This is fantastic.

SPEAKER_01

That's beautiful and a beautiful spin on it. So you're able to sort of focus on the why. Why did you start that business in the first place? And I I always think that it's sort of it's so obvious to me who really believes in what they're selling and who doesn't. Because you know, when someone really believes in what they've got, they they're just talking about it with so much passion because they know it's going to help people. So do you have you found that it depends on what the product is as well?

SPEAKER_00

Like, is it sometimes that I haven't encountered anybody who oh god, I mean, some men are pretty hard to like crack the shell and they'll that you know they'll be like, oh you know, try to keep things very, very rational. But when you dig enough, and I am a nosy bitch, you know. I well like when you dig enough and you get in there and you're like, look, look at this, look at this great thing. But you need that. Yeah, they they do they they crack and they're like, Yeah, actually it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01

Like do you do the hair flick after it? I love that so much. Are your clients from all different industries?

SPEAKER_00

So, like, does everyone every different industry come to you or is there like a common I I have worked with pretty much every industry, mainly because friends, you know, who are in my like target industry will refer or whatever. Um my target audience is consultants and experts, coaches, those sorts of people, because I just love getting to that like unique point of view piece. I really love that. Yeah, but they tend to be from a broad variety of industries. I'm working with a lot of lawyers, leadership consultants, coaches, those sorts of people at the moment. I won't take on life coaches who I don't think are adding any genuine value.

SPEAKER_01

So I've got there's some Yeah, you're so you're standing behind your business then. If it's you're only working at things you really believe in. Don't you fall asleep when you're talking to the lawyers though? I would really fall asleep. No, you can't say that.

SPEAKER_00

It's funny though, it's funny. Not really, because once you crack the shell of, you know, and lawyers are often a difficult nut to crack. Everybody has chosen their career path for a reason. Like there's a reason that someone is an environmental lawyer as opposed to a family lawyer, or a family lawyer as opposed to a commercial lawyer, or they're a leadership consultant as opposed to a marketing, you know. So like when you get un when you get into the guts of their why, most of them have a great story to tell. And I am yet to work with a client that I haven't found kind of cool. I love that.

SPEAKER_01

Do you find your work very fulfilling, like seeing because I like to have a purpose in life and I like to see that I'm adding value to someone's life? Do you feel very when they tell you that the results they've gotten, do you just feel an immense amount of satisfaction?

SPEAKER_00

There's like there's a lot of because I am, you know, I spent a lot of years in management. I'm I'm like you, I'm a corporate SKP. So, you know, there was a lot of years where I just kind of moved things around and I wasn't on the tools anymore. Like it can be, it is grunt work. Like having to, you know, a being 44-year-old woman with kids, like finding the time to really focus and grind out copy can be very tedious. All of the stuff that you have to do to run a business, your account, you know, that stuff can be tedious, right? Like it's not all fun and games, but there is this moment which is the payoff for me, where we crack the secret source, where I'm like, oh, hold on, this is this is so, and you know, you see them kind of light up and they get excited by the stuff. And you know, often I'll deliver the copy and I immediately get this email saying, Oh my god, I love it. And you just see, I love that I can help people see their what they're great at, help them feel confident, and ultimately help them make money because I just I grew up very poor and I had very few opportunities as a, you know, like on paper, you would have thought I had very few opportunities. But, you know, thanks to growing up in Australia and all the great things that Australia was able to provide me, I've been able to, because of access to opportunity, I've been able to do to live a life that fulfills me and you know is greater than probably was on paper would have been expected of me. And I love be to be able to provide people with opportunity. What they do with that is up to them, right? But I love the idea that they come to me with a problem, I get to help them solve that problem, and then that opens doors for them because people are really clear about what they do, who they work with, how they can help, and then they have more money, or they have uh speaking opportunities, or they think, oh, I really like that. I'm gonna go write a book. That's the bit that I love. And then of course I love it when they come back to me. And you know, we do a three-month check-in where we'll look at their stats before we rewrote their copy and their stats afterwards, and you know, we can go back to them and say, hey, like this is really, you know. So that's so there's a few moments amongst all that are like, oh my god, I've got to write everything. It's a balance. I'm back on the tools that really energize me, and I get very excited about.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I feel the same with the podcasting, even though I love editing, but it's that yeah, I don't think people realize the hours, it is a full, it's become a full-time job. I'm not kidding. Like the hours of you're you're finding the guests. I mean, a lot of them come to me, but a lot of them I have to find. You're researching about them, you're creating the questions, you're emailing back and forth, trying to book in the time. Then you're so people only see this part of it, and this is so the highlight of my week getting to talk and connect with people, finally having a bra and makeup on because I work at home all the time. But then it's you know, the editing of the video, the editing of the audio, the the cutting of the reels to put on socials. It is full on. So it, but it's a nice balance. Like sometimes I like to sit with no bra and makeup and put my headphones on and just grind out the editing. Yep. And then I love this. It's a good balance because I would be drained if I talked to people 24-7. But yeah, what a beautiful little story there. Like that made me get that full body warmth. Like hearing that you grew up, you know, with not a lot of money or not a lot of opportunities. And here you are, gorgeous looking woman doing an amazing job. And you're such a boss lady at it the way you speak about it, sitting in a beautiful home in Baumain in Sydney. I mean, this is what I live for. I love seeing people get ahead. You know, I love an underdog story. Yeah, and I just love seeing women succeed. But more than that, I love seeing people do what they love. And I just like I love entrepreneurs, and it just makes me so excited because I think about my nan who just absolutely loathed going to work in was it a paper factory or a glass factory? You know, just shitty things where people were slicing off fingers and she just hated it. You know, I just thought, gosh, she deserves so much more. And what would she think of me doing this now for a living? Like it's the opportunities are endless at the moment. And I, you know, you you get scared of the data centers and that, but just the opportunities that we have now, it's just so exciting. And and on that with your clients, do you get a lot of people like me, like and yourself, really, like mums who are don't want to go back to the nine to five, so they're creating, yeah, like coaches.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the first conversation I have with them is uh don't do this because the hours are shorter. Please, you will be very disappointed. Yeah, it's not about that, it's about the fulfilling yeah, yeah. So yeah, a lot of a lot, and that was my story. I was in corporate until I had my first baby, and then my husband was working up in he his job was Sydney based, but his team was up in China, and so he was back and forth to China all the time. And I just couldn't, my job had me traveling, and I just had this baby, and I was like, Well, what's going on to you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's a failure.

SPEAKER_00

And yeah, and so ever since then I've been grinding, you know, trying to kind of keep this balance of being home for the kids because I'm still home, you know, I have managed to stay. I've had a kind of combination. They've my oldest is 14 now, so 14 years is a long time. But through it all, have managed to live my purpose, which is growing great boys, and it's such a short period of time that I've got them at home with me. You know.

SPEAKER_01

Do you cry when you see those things on Instagram where you've only got this many summers with them, this many? And I'm like, oh my God, I have to hate them.

SPEAKER_00

Because you're getting close to the they're off to schoolies, they're off traveling with their friends. Yeah, you're making it. Yeah, yeah. My son's planning, you know, he's already planning to go to my scuba diving in Micronesia with his mates. Oh, he's you know, like, what mate? What happened to Cavill Avenue and so far?

SPEAKER_02

I know, right?

SPEAKER_01

I've got great clubs up there up there. I've got great memories. But, you know, like for my friends who we, you know, mine's nearly two, we're trying for the second. We're in the trenches, but I always keep saying, push through. We're gonna get through. It's so quick, you know. Like, I'm looking at my son running around saying words, and I'm like, I just brought you home from the hospital. Whoa. What the fuck? You know, like it's so blinking you miss it. That I'm like, we'll get through this, and then we're gonna have that beautiful time where they come home from school and tell you things about their life.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, it's full on it's all like there's you know, I say this to my friends who I've got a much younger sister. So my mum remarried, and I've got a sister who's 15 years younger than me. And sometimes her friends will say things like, I just don't know, they're all turning 30 right now, you know. I don't know whether to have children or not. And my answer to them is I can't tell you because I don't think that kids have, I can't tell you how much joy they've brought me and how uh focused I am on my purpose, which is to grow great boys. I can't tell you the joy of that, but also the cost is like it is a 50-50 coin flip. The cost is so great. But do you know what I think?

SPEAKER_01

I can't tell them. You can't. And I, even pregnant, was still freaking out. Like I was never a baby person. And I remember being in the shower with this big belly going, oh my God, it's happening now. It's too late to wake out.

SPEAKER_00

And I just when I was giving birth, I was like, oh my god, this is happening. I'm gonna be a mum in like 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_01

It's too late for condoms. Look, the second he landed on my chest, because I was always singing and doing performances, and I said, and it did impact that, and that is on pause at the moment. But I remember my husband saying, I think it's gonna motivate your creativity and career, and it absolutely hasn't. I can't believe it has because maternity leave made me realize that's it. I'm going out on my own with my business. I don't want to work for people anymore. Like, but I often look at both, it's just it depends on who you are. Because I'm like, I still could have had a very good life not having children too. My husband and I had a great life. And someone who now who's been trying seven months to have the second child, I'm like, you know what? No matter what happens, you're gonna have a great life if you decide you're gonna have a great life. But it is like when people used to tell me how rewarding having kids was, I'd actually get annoyed because I'm like, I don't want to hear it. Like, I it's not something you can hear from someone else. I think you just have to go through it. And I I couldn't believe how much I slipped into the role with ease, how much I adored it, and how much other avenues of my life opened up once I met this little person. But God, I hated when people told me about it. Like, I was like, I don't know if I want to have to, like I was back and forth. So, yeah, to each their own. And I I can understand, you know, I was 41 when I had my first son. So I was definitely when they were 29, 30, I was not thinking about it. So they gotta go live your best life now, girls. Yeah. No, I I love that so much. I could talk on and on with other mums about stuff like that. You work with thought leaders and experts all day. What are the biggest mistakes highly intelligent or capable people make when talking about their work online?

SPEAKER_00

They forget that they're running a business. I think. I think these like very intelligent people can get a little bit head in the clouds and they forget to ask for the sale. I know that sounds so dumb and so basic, but they just forget to be like, oh, and I'm I want to help you. And in order to do that, you need to buy from me. I've got one client at the moment, and she will not work, she will not be like concerned about me sharing this because uh like this is nothing I haven't said to her face, and she laughs all the time about it. But she's got this podcast, and it's a very, very niche podcast, and it had like tens of thousands of views almost instantly. She still to this day does not have an ask on her podcast where she says, This is how you can work with me, or this is what I need from you, or how I can help you.

SPEAKER_01

And it Yeah, I only recently brought that in not long ago. Right? Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00

Because yeah. And the hilarious thing is because she's so niche, her product is so tied to their needs. I'm like, they're obviously listening to you because they are desperate for your knowledge, right? They're not the guilt thing again, like you feel bad in asking. Yeah, she feels bad. She's like, Oh, I just want to give, I just want to give. And I'm like, Yes, which you give by them joining your program because that's they're it's such an enriching You're not putting them out, you're adding value to their lives.

SPEAKER_01

And what I have realized time and time again, people are more than happy to pay for things that add value to their lives. And when you underprice, people don't think they're as valuable. Honestly, I'm learning that more and more. When I used to do singing gigs, I would feel guilty for asking. And people have a way to rip off performers, and they're bringing people in and entertaining crowds. They're worth every cent. And when I just became unapologetically demanding of what my price was, people were very happy to pay it. Yeah. But I had a wonderful guest a few weeks ago, Mel Brown, money expert. And she was talking on the episode about how her partner Lausy was like, Oh, I hate how we're all about marketing at the moment. She goes, make no mistake, I am still here to make a profit. And I loved that line so much. That really hit home hard for me. Because we do struggle to ask, don't we?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. And I think it's because, again, we aren't marinating enough in the in like the the attitude of service. We aren't marinating enough in, we aren't giving ourselves enough credit for how much help we are providing our customers.

SPEAKER_01

But I like asking for, you know, the side projects, but I I don't like when people pay for the podcast episodes, you know, when it's like they make some difference. It's odd, it feels icky for me. Like it feels like Netflix, know where Netflix brought in ads, and it's like you can stay on this price, but you've got to watch ads, or you can, you know, I always say they dangle the carrot, you can pay a little more and then there'll be no ads. So it feels like that with the podcast. I feel like, I don't know, because so many podcasts are free. I can't, I always want to keep that funnel as this is my free service. Yeah. If you want to work with me further, this is my paid service that goes deeper.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I do love a uh Patreon though. Patreon?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. No, Patreon is correct, and I haven't done that. I again I have more to learn.

SPEAKER_00

I'm yeah, I'm a bonus episode for someone who's giving me lots of value, I will pay for that. So I think I'm probably signed up to four Patreon, like a bonus episode things. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

See, that's good to hear. Because in in my back of my head, I'm like, no, no one, no one wants to do that, Steph. But people obviously do that.

SPEAKER_00

They don't have to. You're not forcing them under your head, right? Like, so if I get, if I really like listening to your podcast, and then there is a whole other bonus episode where I get extra content, then yeah, like that's that's my money, and I'll do what I want, Steph.

SPEAKER_01

If I want to give it to you, I'm gonna give it to you. Right. We need to have a chat after the episode about my business. We need to, we need to talk. Okay. For someone listening who has a business, creative project, podcast, or personal brand, what's one practical thing they could do this week to instantly communicate more authority and confidence?

SPEAKER_00

Ironically, it is to talk about the customer more. So there's this, and you'll see on my Instagram or my LinkedIn, I touch on this fairly regularly because it is the bits of content that I share that gets the most engagement. I get people to look at their website or their sales materials, their proposals, their marketing, whatever, and count how many times they say I or we or my or me and contrast that with the number of times you say you, your, get, achieve, enjoy. I love this. And just compare them because you can be so much more powerful by just flipping it to I can help you sell coffee cups to you will sell more coffee cups. Like it just flipping it to Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

In the that's a real light bulb moment because what I hear a lot from guests in any area that we're talking about is that people really want to feel seen. So by changing that wording, you're making your customers feel more seen and making it less about you. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because nobody wakes up in the morning and thinks, I want to work with an expert or a consultant. Nobody. What they want is to do something for themselves. Yes. So yeah.

unknown

I love that.

SPEAKER_01

That really real big light bulb moment there. I love that. Turning it on the customer. That's great. Do you think women are often socially conditioned to make themselves more likable instead of more powerful? I touched on this a bit with myself. And is that hurting their ability to make money and be taken seriously?

SPEAKER_00

Like, absolutely, 100%. And again, that's a totally rational thing for them to want is to be liked. But you there are all sorts of reasons that someone will like you. And they can like you because you're amenable and you bend over backwards and you do everything that you think that they want, which girl, you don't know what they want. You are so up in your own head if you think that you can like you have the crystal ball and you know exactly what they want. So take yourself out of the equation, please. But you can like you can be liked for being amenable, but you can also be liked for being useful or helpful.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And I would just encourage anyone who is who is bad attempting to sell to another person to try to be liked for being useful as opposed to being amenable.

SPEAKER_01

I I would agree with that, and I think for women, we We've been set up in a society where that's it's not our fault because we were told we need to smile more, we need to be likable, you know. And when you see a man uh be demanding it's oh he he's got authority, but a woman's bossy, or you know, there it definitely is that difference of a narrative. And I'm not rational. Yes, and I'm not even 100% blaming men for that because a lot of women put those judgments on.

SPEAKER_00

Women are men are big victims of patriarchy as well. Like they're not having the best time either. I don't know if you've noticed, but men aren't out there having the best time right now. None of us are winning.

SPEAKER_01

No, I love that because it takes the blame off the individual and puts it on the system. And yeah, that's really great. And that's why it's good to call for change. But I've just gotten to a point where I'm like, you know what, just fuck it. Because my tribe will like me when I'm just me. And there's always gonna be people. You know, like I always say to myself, you might not be everyone's cup of tea, but you're some people's champagne. So I, you know, yeah. So I gotta remove that being liked thing. And I I think, you know, I'm a lot closer than I used to be, but it is something ingrained in us a lot. And I think for sure that hurts our sales and feeling like we're gonna, you know, upset people or, you know, the men in my life are not like that. The older I've gotten, I just, I'm just so much more confident in my own voice. Like even if my husband and I are at home and we're doing sales and I'm gonna make a call, he goes, Do you want me to go in the other room? I'm like, no, like I'm so confident now I will talk to anyone anytime because I believe in what value I'm adding to people's lives. But I also, I don't know, I just trust my voice and I I didn't before.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, and I think as you get older, you realize that you actually don't know as much as you think you do. So you don't know what people what they actually want. And it's it's exhausting to try to constantly predict what another person is thinking or how how they're gonna behave, or it is so like aren't we just tired for that now? Aren't we just too tired? Like they get to tell you, people get to say no to you, they get to tell you if you're annoying them, or and that's okay. Just let them like let them tell you what they need.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, uh yeah, it's almost a bit comforting, a bit ringing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yeah, and then you you get to do the same in return, and everybody wins. It's it's it feels like I I spent so much of my twenties being manipulative, trying to think about all like how are they gonna react and how can I kind of manipulate this situation to my benefit? And now I'm just like everybody's an adult.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

So you think it's more um upping the listening skills, like just listening to what people want and just being blunt and asking them, what do you want?

SPEAKER_00

How can how can I what do you need? Yeah, love that. And being totally okay. If you've got this spirit of service, being totally okay with saying, I can't help you. And I've got these other people that can, or actually, I just can't. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01

Listen, you can't be everything. No, I always talk about this too, like of all the the years and hours I've wasted trying to be excel at everything, when I could have just put all that energy into what I'm great at. Yeah, it's like you don't have to be great at everything. It's okay to pass on to someone else. Yeah. Love that advice so so much. Stacey, this show is all about filling up our cups. So can you tell me what's something you'll be doing in the next week to fill up your cup?

SPEAKER_00

I'm taking a week off. So I don't I can't work on more than one or two clients at a time because of this like creative work and I'm on the tools. So I block out weeks. And this week coming, I have no clients blocked into the week. I'm just gonna catch up on my admin. I'm gonna get my haircut, I'm going to the mountains with my boys for the long weekend. Yeah, so that is how I'm I am refilling my cup.

SPEAKER_01

That is my dream week. I love that so much. I just had my hair done. For those watching on YouTube, I have had the regrowth to end all regrowth for months because I could not fit in a hair appointment and just having a bit of blonde today. I was like, I feel so fresh. And sitting there in the hair appointment, I was like, oh, I just haven't relaxed like this for so long. So it was so great. So well, you enjoy that so much. Thank you so much for all the info you've added today. It's definitely something I was very interested in because it's very applicable to me, but I know so many in my audience as well. I do urge everyone to jump on the show notes and check them out. But please, and I'll have everything linked for you, Stacey, but can you repeat the offer that you had for my audience as well, please?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so it is conversioncopy.app, and they can, if they use code STEF, they will get 10 free pages. You just drop your URL in, it will audit your page from a conversion copy perspective and tell you what can be improved.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I love that so much. I'm definitely going to be doing that this weekend. So again, thank you so much, Stacy. I really appreciate your time today. Thank you. And everyone, please do something in the next week to fill up your cup. Thank you again for being here today. I hope that this episode brought some value to you. I look forward to your company in the next episode, and please connect with me on socials to keep this love fest going. Feel free to DM me with any questions at all. And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a loved one or in your Insta stories. And if you're feeling super generous, a review on Apple Podcasts would be greatly appreciated. I'll catch you in the next episode.