The Whole Self Method: Saru Gupta on Emotional Regulation, Reinvention & Leading Without Burnout🙏

In this episode, I sit down with Saru Gupta — practitioner, mentor and creator of the Whole Self Method — to explore emotional regulation, nervous system health, embodied leadership and what it really means to feel safe being your authentic self.

We talk about why so many high-achieving women feel exhausted, disconnected or emotionally flat despite “doing everything right,” and the hidden difference between coping and true regulation.

Saru also opens up about her deeply personal journey — from growing up in India and navigating multiple cultures across the world, to the childhood stutter that emerged from suppressing her emotions, the grief of losing her mother, divorce, remarriage and the life-changing insights she gained through thousands of hours of meditation.

This conversation is grounded, thoughtful and deeply validating for anyone who’s ever felt stuck in survival mode while trying to hold everything together.

We explore:

·        Nervous system regulation vs emotional suppression 

·        Why burnout patterns often hide behind achievement 

·        Overthinking, rushing and hyper-independence 

·        Leadership, relationships and self-trust 

·        Cultural identity and reinvention 

·        What it actually feels like to come home to yourself

Have a listen to our chat, or watch the full video on YouTube here.

Thanks for tuning in today to The Can I Get a Refill? Podcast, and be sure to jump on my website (below) to download a free 33 page eBook on 7 Steps to Protect Your Energy & Fill Up Your Cup. 

You cannot pour from an empty cup, so I’ve designed a guide to help you take care of yourself, in order to uplevel your life. Download it today and make yourself a priority in 2026!

Be sure to reach out to us on socials (outlined below)

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Jumping in here to talk directly to my Sydney friends about one of my absolute favourite cafes, Pilgrims Cranolla. Now located in their gorgeous new location opposite South Crenolla Park, with expanded indoor and outdoor seating, including pet-friendly tables out front, and delicious food, juice, and coffee. The menu is full of wholesome, vegetabriats that feel both nostalgic and nourishing. Expect breckie wraps, vibrant salads, smoothies, fresh juices, and some of the best plant-based sandwiches going. I strongly recommend the corn fritters and the chai shake, which is definitely big enough for two. Check them out on Insta and be sure to visit when you're next in Crenella. I'm recording this episode on the lands of the Darowal people and pay my respects to their elders. As this is a digital platform, I also want to pay my respects to the traditional custodians of the lands on which you, our listeners, are based, and acknowledge that you are telling stories on these lands too.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Welcome to Can I Get a Refill?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

A podcast for ambitious women who are tired of pouring from an empty cup, but still want to grow, evolve, and build a life they're proud of. Through a mix of comforting solo episodes and inspiring conversations with industry professionals, authors, wellness experts, and entrepreneurs, we talk about what it really looks like to refill your cup while up-leveling your life. Topics include mental, emotional and physical wellness, hormonal health, manifestation, career and finance, boundaries, self-trust, and redefining success on your own terms. Hosted by me, Steph Bruno Newton, each weekly episode is designed to motivate, ground, and empower you to take care of your needs and go after the life you actually want. Pour yourself a cup, take a breath, and let's refill it together. Today's guest is someone whose work immediately resonated with me because it aligns so deeply with what we talk about on this podcast, the idea that success means very little if you're constantly abandoning yourself in the process. I'm joined by Saru Gupta, practitioner, mentor, and creator of the whole self method, where she helps high-achieving women move beyond survival mode and reconnect with themselves through emotional regulation, nervous system health, and embodied leadership. Drawing on training in somatic psychotherapy, developmental trauma, attachment styles, emotional intelligence, and nervous system repair, Saru's work explores the deeper patterns that quietly shape how we lead, love, work, and move through the world. In this episode, we talk about burnout, overthinking, emotional suppression, identity, cultural conditioning, and what it actually means to feel calm, grounded, and connected to yourself again. Saru also shares her own powerful story, including the childhood stutter that emerged from ignoring her emotional world, the lessons she learned through thousands of hours of meditation, and how experiences like grief, divorce, remarriage, and living across multiple countries shaped the work she does today. This is a really thoughtful, grounding conversation, and I think so many of you are going to see yourselves in it. Thank you for being here again for the Can I Get a Refill Podcast. If you're new, I'm Steph, I'm your host, and I help women stop pouring from an empty cup and start building a life that actually supports them. Jump on the website www.canagetarefill podcast.com.au, linked below to download your free ebook on seven steps to protect your energy and fill up your cup. Every area of your life comes back to the relationship you have with the self. So make sure it's a very strong one. Download it today and make yourself your number one priority. Okay, now let's jump in. Hello, my cup fillers, and welcome back to the Canada Refill Podcast. As just promised, we are blessed today to be joined by international guest Saru Gupta. Saru, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Thank you so much, Steph. And I'm so excited to be here and having this chat with you.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

I am too. I was just saying to you, your what you do for work is so aligned with my podcast, maybe more so than any guest I've ever had. So I'm really, really excited to have a chat with you. And for those listening, Saru is joining us from Dubai at 6:30 in the morning, looking very vibrant, and the sun is so bright if you're watching on YouTube. So thank you for joining me so early. But actually, it was your your request.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

So yeah, it was like the sun, you have to have an early morning start here.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Is it because you said because of the noise, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:44

No, it's uh noise as well, but like I was sharing, like the podcast is about that, like because in summers you're always in aircon, and it's so important to be out. So early morning before the sun rises or before it gets really bright, I love just being out. So that's the reason I like starting really early.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Yeah, some morning girl too. I love that so much. And um, you said you've been in Dubai only around a year, so why Dubai? Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

It's a crazy story. I actually thought a year and a half ago, never Dubai. I really told my friends, never Dubai. And then I met my current husband, my husband. And he's like, This is my second marriage. And I had kind of like, no, I don't, I don't think. And then we met and he's living in Dubai, and it just felt like the right move. But it's taken me a while to adopt. It's been a year, and I've been doing a lot of back and forth between Australia and Dubai.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Right. You were in Melbourne, you said for 16 years.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

16 years, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

And I'm just seeing a lot of very like up and coming podcasters living there. It seems like it's, is it very, is it city culture? Like I've only been in the airport. I was saying I nearly died from the heat going on the tarmac to get my flight to Morocco. But it is it very like bustling, or what's what's the energy like there?

SPEAKER_03 6:01

It's very hustle bustle. So like I used to live in upstate New York and California before before Melbourne for 16 years. And Dubai is, I would say, a mix of like, you know, lifestyle of very hustle. Like, you know, Australia is a little bit laid back, but Dubai is like, you know, if even if you look at the way the city is, sky rises, like, you know, internet, it's very hustle bustle. And it's got the mix of east and west because it's also got the facilities, like, you know, which a lot of western countries don't. So that's why people love coming here and living. And my husband calls it. I mean, I think he loves Dubai, that's why he calls it the new London. He likes Carl, but I also think he's biased towards Dubai. It's just as he just starts a debate every time. Dubai is the best, so yeah, that's his philosophy.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

That is so funny. No, it sounds like a very happening place, so yeah, it's good energy to be an entrepreneur from, that's for sure. Well, we'll we'll jump into it. Uh, Sarah, you work with high-achieving women who on paper seem successful, yet internally feel exhausted or disconnected. Why do you think so many women are experiencing this right now?

SPEAKER_03 7:12

This is such an important question because I think um we have so many labels these days, right? It could be we have UDHD, we have perimenopause, and there is a truth about all of these labels. But there's another truth I've realized through my work. It is we're living, first of all, in uncertain times. Look at with everything that's coming, we can't deny that. I think that's a world situation. Men and women both are feeling it. But then on the other sense, women have been carrying so many roles: leadership, career, motherhood, caregiving, relationships, emotional level during all of this, and we have been awarded for being on top of things, right? Let's be on top of things, top of everything, you know. So what cost does it come at? It comes at cost like if you look at from the time we were teenagers as women, we are still in that you know, hustling, bustling, like that energy that rises within us, the hormones that rise, it brings up different emotions, and then as life continues, we start getting learning to suppress because the world hasn't been built to navigate life with emotions. Yes, that's and and I mean, and that's the truth we can deny. So all the labels we have gotten kind of help us still avoid that fact that we haven't learned how to manage our emotions while navigating life the way life is now.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Probably a lot a lot of the episodes I do can be similar and a lot of the content might be similar, but I'm proud of that. I'm not like, oh no, I'm doubling up. You know why? Because we need to hear these messages repeated to remind ourselves to take a breather and to fill up our cups, like truly, and no one would get in a car and drive, you know, from Sydney to Perth and just keep pushing it with no petrol, no servicing. Like we understand that a machine needs, you know, servicing or something to charge it or it needs a rest. But we we wear that exhaustion with a badge of honor, and women especially, as you said, we get we've always been rewarded for taking on all these extra roles. And it's yeah, it's sort of we're really at that crux in society where women are shouting out saying can't do all this, need to need to have boundaries, need to have a rest, and then there's people coming up against us with resistance. So, yeah, I'm gonna keep repeating shows like this because I think that need we need to remind ourselves. And I was just saying that with my last guest, we're both feeling really tired, and I'm like, yeah, like even I'm preaching these messages, but I have to actively remind myself, like I've been booking back-to-back guests, and I'm like, no, I'm feeling burnt out. And even though it's really filling, it is filling my cup, but I'm tired, and I need, and when my son's in daycare, I need to be able to take some rest because when he comes home, that's my real job.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

That's when I'm yeah, completely, and uh, and I'm so glad you said this thing that this message needs to be repeated. And I think, I mean, I'm sure your other guests have spoken about it, it comes at a cost of self-sacrifice, self-denial, self-abandonment. But I want to actually bring another thing. So even if, and I think this is something I have had to in my own journey, even if I have all the time to rest, I still don't know how to rest. And and this is something a very important point, which is very important for women to understand. I mean, I think there's a fine line between self-responsibility and responsibility from what being told. I have, after the work I've done with high-achieving women and myself, my own journey has been there is something else happening under the system. So, so there we have wellness at the top level. Like the wellness industry is billion dollars, it's gone more than before, but yet disconnect is more than before as well. So there is something happening which is not enough. And I think it is about addressing why are we not resting when we know we need to? We're talking to high-achieving women, like brilliant women who are super intelligent, so they can Google, they know what to do. But something's happening in the system that is still not getting in.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Yeah. And I always say, I worry. Um my intellect knows rest is productive. My intellect knows I need to be taking regular breaks. But there's something in my nervous system that says if you stop, if you take your foot off the gas, someone else is gonna come up and grab the success you're after. And it's such horse shit because there'sn't enough success for us all. And I truly believe in my gut that's what's destined for me is already mine. Like, you know, I'm on my way to it. But there's something about me that feels like if I'm not working hard 24-7, I'm gonna drop the ball. Do you hear a lot of your high achieving clients say the same thing?

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Yes, they do, but yes, 100%. Like, I mean, I have been there and there are times when that still happens for me. I think this is the conditioning as well, which is there. But I have also realized there are others, so there is this fear of which is a primal fear, which is human fear, like you know, which comes from we can we can say it's not in all of us, it is there, you know. We cannot deny that we wanna be better, we wanna be the best. And I think that's what has helped evolution evolve, survival, right? Yeah, and and there is no denying that I have realized that there's something else happening in the system, which is we don't know how to process what our system's showing. So, so when we rest, there is freeze, there is suppression of emotions, there is memories that come up, there is, you know, so so it's it's other things that are happening which stop us from resting.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

There's my no, I'm saying it because my husband and I went on a walk last night and had this exact conversation. There's someone in a couple of people in our lives who can't be alone. They feel every moment with catching up with people and they're always saying that they're tired and exhausted. And my husband and I both uh we make sense together because we're both the lone wolves of our group. We love alone time and we love to recharge. We give each other, it's the only relationship that's ever worked for me because we give each other space to be the individual. Whereas I've had men who, you know, control. But there's yeah, there's people I know who will, you know, go from relationship to relationship. And then if they have time off and their kids are taken somewhere, then they're catching up with friends. And it's like, when are you um sitting in the stillness or the silence, like to rest? And I and I know it's people who are um, this is our sort of um estimate of the situation, is that they don't want to face certain things because they've had some emotional things happen. And I know they're they're running from that stillness and that silence. And it is that what you you were alluding towards that it it brings things up so that the stillness can feel unsafe for the nurses for some.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it is part of it, so it's not even like they're aware of what's happening, so it's like the body is used to, but then also there is the wiring, there is a habitual pattern of just being, you know, on the wire, like you know, it's that's how your condition from childhood to be like, you know. So it's it's not just like one, it is like you know, when you start sitting in stillness, you know, it's hard to sit. First of all, like I remember when I started meditating 10 years ago, honestly, like I'd gone on a meditation course, and for because there was silence and there was I didn't have my phone, I'm not kidding, I could not sit still even for a minute. So because it was not a retreat, it was not a retreat where I could do yoga. I was just like sitting with myself with breath. It was the hardest thing I'd ever done in my life. And afterwards, years ago, years afterwards, I did uh skydiving, and I'm like, oh, there's thrill in that, but this is nothing compared to when I had to sit.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

But are you saying that the first the first meditation was harder than the skydiving?

SPEAKER_03 15:42

100%, like you know, because uh because because skydiving was like you know, jumping, the thrill thrill. It was like a minute thrill. You're moving, you're moving, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:53

It was stillness that caught you.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

It caught me, but more than that, who I was then and who am I now, it's taken me a lot of work off trauma work. It's not just stillness, it is understanding what is driving me, what's happening in my body. There is a reason is trauma.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

I was in a violent relationship from 05 to 2010. And 2011, I did a meditation course, and it was, you know, it was a good year of um well, when I say good year, it was the year where I started the real quest to find myself. And it's you know been a lot of work. Now I'm in a very comfortable state. But it is, you know how sometimes to clean your house, you gotta get really messy first before it can get really clean? That that was my 2011. Let's delve into all the the shit inside my system. And you know, like being in a violent relationship is a lot of stored trauma, and I had other trauma prior to that. So when I started that meditation course, oh my God, I was so uncomfortable sitting in that silence. But I hadn't gotten all the trauma out yet. So it was uncomfortable to sit with myself. And maybe someone who'd been in a violent home, stillness is dangerous because you don't know what's coming at you next. So, and you know, this is years and years later, and I'm getting to a good place now, but there are still times when I my nervous system. Yeah, like I said there's um, I've been trying for seven months to fall pregnant and I from with my second and I haven't been able to, and I'm still fertile, but I have a hormone issue because my body. But I've been doing a lot of work in the last few months, and I said to the doctor, Oh, I'm not stressed. And he goes, No, no, you might not be stressed in your brain, but your body hasn't caught up to that yet. And this is what I'm saying, on an intellectual level, I'm telling myself, Steph, you are safer than you've ever been in this home and this life. But my nervous system isn't fully caught up to that yet, and I'm aware of that.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

100%. And to be honest, like if I also think so, like, you know, meditation, like that's one part of my training, but I'm trained in other things. Meditation can also be freeze in the body. So so it's like it's like, you know, so I wrote an article years ago, and the reason I'm bringing this thing is so it can bring awareness. Just because we're doing all the tick boxes, which is meditation, which is yoga, which is this, doesn't mean that it's the only thing. The body might need something else. So it it's it sometimes all the wellness tools can become another way of bypassing what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Ah, you mean like a distraction?

SPEAKER_03 18:32

No, because it feels good, it's soothing. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

It's soothing facing the the root cause.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

It's the root cause still. I mean, it is important to survive in the world to soothe the way the world is becoming, but not necessarily it is the only thing. So this is something this conjunction with the in yes conjunction with the deeper work, what's happening. And and I mean, in some ways, I feel like it's a better band aid. It's it's it's a better, it can be a better band-aid. I mean, I gotta be very careful how I say this. I meditate every day. I'm a meditation teacher, I've trained with teachers, I have run some of their programs as well. I'm all for it, but I also believe it's got its own part. There's another part of the other work which you spoke about, like, you know, the body's stressed. It's not, it needs other things which are required.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

This is uh probably controversial. I'm not a medical person. This is my opinion, but uh, do you know much of Louise Hay's work? Yeah. Louise Hay, the author, yeah, how she had stage four cancer that she was told inoperable. So she went and did her own work and literally got rid of the cancer through all different treatments. And that she had scans to prove the cancer was gone. But, and you know, meditation, self-love. Well, she did a lot of work, but she said what I believe, because you know, when you hear of people who get cancer and they'll have the chemo, they'll have it cut out, and then it comes back in a different body part. So, like I trust doctors implicitly, and I would go do, I always go do both. Take the medicine and then do the other thing to figure out the root cause. So if you're, I always believe that if you're treating that illness but not getting to the root cause of why it got there, it's gonna come up again in another way. And I always talk about that all the medical issues I had while I was in that violent relationship, what I really needed to do was remove myself from the unsafe place. So yeah, get getting to the root cause is is very vital.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

Yeah. But you know, like for much of my life, I looked really successful on paper. This was years ago. I'd built a career in the US, Australia. You know, I achieved many things like on paper, but it never felt enough. I when I really look at it, like I mean, even sitting down, I'm like, oh, but I haven't achieved much. This was years ago. But yet underneath there was exhaustion, there was emotional suppression, constant feeling that I'm always going on. Even if I took rest, it was never really rest. Like, you know, it was never I would go for spatial.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

For you, sorry, was it you were trying to prove yourself to yourself or someone, or you you were suppressing your emotions?

SPEAKER_03 21:16

I don't I don't think it's that simple because I think there are different um things that come together. So, like now, after 12 years of deeper work and this body of work and having worked, yes, I can say in hindsight, you know, I was doing this and this and this, you know. And one thing I always say is that our childhood shapes our career, our life path, and which makes us geniuses. There's no denying it, sometimes it can, but it also can be our human wound, which have to be healed as well somewhere. That's why I saw like and look at all the great people in the world. They've had some kind of stuff, you know, happening in the childhood which has Driven them to do great things, right? Like, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

I always said that. Like Lady Gaga being bullied at school. That creates such a beautiful person. Such a beautiful persona. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:09

You know, and a lot of, but then from the human side, when I'm saying human side, it seems like others not human, but that that fire that drives also burns internally. And that's why a lot of things that are happening from burnout to all of other things, you know, are because we haven't addressed that. Yes. Yep. I'm not saying the burnout is not real, but I'm also saying on conjunction, other work has to be done which can address why are we pushing ourselves so much? It's not just for the success. There is something else driving that pushing. And that's what needs to be addressed.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Yes. Yes. Very well said. You speak a lot about the difference between coping and being truly emotionally regulated. How can someone tell the difference between the two in their own lives?

SPEAKER_03 23:07

It's when you're in that environment, when you're in coping, you can't tell you're coping. Because what you're seeing is you're highly functional, you're always on the go, you're getting, you're on top of things, you're in control, you rely on control, you're not in close perfectionism, you're being awarded. It feels great, you know, because at some level it feels excellent. But then on the other side, you are waking up in the middle of the night, the mind's going on. Um, you can you might feel these different symptoms in the body. It could look like fight, freeze, anger. There's a freeze that happens, which could look like chronic fatigue at times. I look at that as well, um, which could be stop and start, the mind forgetting things. There are a lot of other symptoms of these symptoms of coping. When you look at regulation, regulation, I mean, it's not clean. And that's the thing with all this emotional intelligence everyone's talking about, they make it sound it's so neat. Oh, talk about emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence is never neat, it's messy. Yes, it really is in regulation, it can be messy in the beginning. It allows you to stay connected to yourself, so it means at times, I mean, this might not be attractive to a lot of people, but I might not be able to make sense what's happening. Yeah, because that is regulation because I am connected to myself, and we are not supposed to make sense of everything in the moment. Emotions move.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

It's about how you react.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

How to react to it, yes. And yes, emotions move through you. So, you know, in a day I will feel anger, I'll feel sadness, I'll feel happiness, I'll feel all of that. I'll have guilt come up, you know. But then once you get used to this, then you know how to respond rather than react. Because there is a familiarity with these emotions, there's a familiarity with being messy, with the messiness of life.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Yes, you know, and and so for example, I was gonna say people will repeat like dangerous or unhealthy patterns in their life because it's familiar. Because doesn't the the brain or the the ego want what's familiar because it feels comfortable?

SPEAKER_03 25:35

100%, 100%, like you know, and also that's what it knows. So, like, you know, like there is something called like negativity bias, which is the mind is wired towards negativity more than the positivity, but there is a reason for it because it's needed for survival, it's needed for survival, but then because we we want to avoid that, we sometimes become too positive and we want everything under control. So, you know, uh, we want everything under control, like you know, life has to be perfect, life has to be if I'm on top, and it works well for our corporate careers because it means I can be highly functional, I can be structured, I can keep going forward, I can achieve all my goals, I don't get that promotion at work, someone else does. I'm talking about someone in their 30s and then they're growing, but then what I can do is I can push it inside and I can work more harder while I keep denying what's happening within me as a woman. As a woman, what's you know, so in a in a boardroom, someone who is at a higher position, you know, might be carrying a lot of responsibility, seems very contained, coping exceptionally well. But is she is she is she actually hiding aspects of herself which are not serving her personal life? And it's not like you can't have both, you know, even though your question was about coping and emotional regulation, you can. But my philosophy and my whole body of work is how do you learn to live in the messianess of life with your emotions and still be highly successful? So you're not denying your personal needs, so you're not denying your personal health, your personal, and it's not just about drama, it's also about how do you kind of balance these aspects. So as a woman, and women's body has a different way a man's body is.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Yes, we cannot deny it's a cycle, but control, you said control there, and that really sparked something for me. I had a guest the other day that said she's my age in her early to mid 40s, and said that in her 20s she was very manipulative almost because she was trying to control everything. I completely resonated with that. I feel like I was, you know, I sort of grew up around other people that were manipulating situations too, to because they hadn't faced things that happened to them. And I I feel I've done I did that for a lot of my adult life, trying to control situations so that I wouldn't feel uncomfortable. And I guess meditation was that starting point to allow myself to allow things to be uncomfortable because it's um I often will remind myself it's okay. Like I'll play the worst case scenario in my head and I'll be like, it's okay. Even if that happens, you're gonna be okay. And I think a lot of the time we're we're scared of what might go wrong, so we control the you know what other people might do. Do you fight? Do you find that's a bit of a common thread?

SPEAKER_03 28:43

Oh my god, I think it's the most common thread for high-achieving women.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Ah, right.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

It's like it's it's it's the common thing I've worked with with women. Like, you know, so when I say coping signs of practical sense of coping, racing mind, an ability to switch off, emotional numbness, and control is in the top. Overthinking, needing constant productivity, you know? Yes, these all are coping signs, you know, just because you're functioning doesn't mean you're regulated.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Okay, because I've even heard women with eating disorders say that that was they might have had some abuse in their life, and the eating disorder was the area where they felt they had control. So it is something we we lean on, isn't it? And I think especially as women, because so often in my life, control was just taken away from me from my own life or my own body. And it's um it's such a scary feeling to feel like you're not in control of your own path. So I feel like I'm more prone to doing that than my husband because no one's ever tried to take his economic power from him.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Exactly. Like if even if you look at a woman's body, I think you brought such an important point. Like, you know, yeah, our body is changing so much. Yeah, it's changing, like it's changing. And I mean, I always say that probably hundred years ago, 50 years ago, when women were not in the workforce and careers, and we had more time to slightly accept more breathing space to slightly accept the changes in our body, you know, it's it's that, and with the advancement and with our desires, and which is I think a fair, we want to be known for our intelligence and our brilliance, but it comes at a cost of are we functioning along with our body? Are we actually and when you talk about manipulation? Like, I think I was a queen of control, and in and like it's I think we all do that, it's it's such a common threat. And you spoke about eating disorder. I don't think it's only eating disorder, overworking is a sign of control in some ways, yes, like alcohol, like anything, anything that will make me feel on top of things so I don't have to feel helpless. Yes, because it's the helplessness we are trying to run away from.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Yes, and but I even see some people parent like that in that way of control, and I've I'm really actively allowing my son to do things and explore and like fall over. I know this sounds odd, but I was very much wrapped up in cotton wool, and I know that my parents wanted to protect me, but I feel like that made me trust myself less as an adult. So I allow my son to do things like not extreme, you know, jumping off buildings, but I'll allow him to do things that I know he's gonna stuff up because I know that's how he's gonna learn to trust himself.

SPEAKER_03 31:28

I think that's great parenting. Like in some ways, you're letting him figure it out on his own.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Yeah, learning trust himself better. Because I was always taught, no, no, no, we adults know better. You can't do and like even into my adulthood, that I never trusted my voice or my ability to take care of myself. And that's why I didn't grow up emotionally until much later. I wasn't allowed the space to have say in my own life.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

So, like, you know, you just gave me such a great example. Like this is something I used to always say to my clients, and even sometimes at friends as well. I'm like, you might not feel like you owe this to yourself to get in um regulation, but you owe it to your kids. So it obviously seems like Steph, you've done your work. So the way you're raising your, I mean, of course, we're all we can always do more work. Like I'm always working on myself, you know, on deeper wounds and deeper regulation, but the way you're bringing your child is because you've gone through the journey. So I think I always feel like we owe it to the next generation. Yeah, but that's so true.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

And you don't want to put pressure on yourself as a mom because it's all no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

I'm not talking about that. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

No, but I agree with that, sorry, because isn't my son Leo gonna have a better life if I'm addressing what's not working for me?

SPEAKER_03 32:45

Otherwise, that stuff's gonna project onto him, and he doesn't need to take on my emotional baggage, he's gonna have his own stuff in in life, and also I also feel like the generation before, our parents' generation, depending on which part of the world, they didn't have these privileges because the information was not there, the science was not there. That's what I'm saying, not the language, not the language, not the science. I mean, it's quite new comparatively, the way it's widespread, and also they were they were not the dreamers. I feel like they were still the generation to kind of create the world the way it is. Yeah, our generation has more options, like the generation now women in their 40s, 50s, have more options and the younger generation.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Yeah, I have a lot of gratitude to be in this generation. Patient, yeah. Yeah. That's why I always say I never say the good old days. Like we're very lucky with what we were allowed to do now, not allowed, but you know, at our fingertips. Jumping in with another message for my Sydney friends. If you're a pizza lover, you absolutely need to head out to Crenella and visit my friends at Queen Margarita of Savoy for traditional Neapolitan pizza and other Italian classic dishes. With my Sicilian background, you know that I've travelled to Italy many times over the years. I've eaten pizza all over Italy, including in Naples, and I swear to everyone I meet that Queen Margarita is still my absolute fave. I like simple classic flavours, so I highly recommend the traditional margarita and the three cheese pizza. Hubby loves the prosciutto and the pork and fennel. I also have a soft spot for the truffle orangini. Check them out at Surf Road Cranella and the link in my show notes. You definitely will not be disappointed. Um, I just remembered what I was gonna say earlier too. I think often too it's a sign of weakness. People do I was saying this with a couples therapist. People don't want to admit when something's not working in their life. Or and I felt like the moment I freed myself was when I started admitting, I'm struggling now. You know what? I'm not doing so good. Even something as simple with my friends of if I couldn't go to something because I was, I get really bad, I get PMDD, so I'll get really bad just before my period. And and I used to, you know, like try and hide it, like, oh, the car's broken down or something's come up, and now I'll be like, you know what, I'm not feeling mentally fit today to be around people. And I feel like I freed myself a bit when I started being honest if things weren't working well. Do you think there's an element of that, especially in like the corporate world of not wanting to look like you've dropped the ball?

SPEAKER_03 35:28

Yeah, I I think I actually not think I know from my own experience and clients. Um, it's because I work deeply in the emotions in the body. That's one part of my work. So I've got three uh whole self-method has three distinct elements whole self-awareness, emotional body and emotional intelligence, and nervous system rewiring. Shame. So shame is such a driver, and people think shame is about you know, it shows up. It doesn't show up directly in our face, it's driving. I had to experience a lot of helplessness as a child, so because I studied which, and I'm sure everyone has their own helplessness they experienced in a different way. Something was visible for some people, it's not, and that helplessness feeling which drives wanna control, because that helplessness also brings shame. There's real shame, like the story you said, like you know, so all of these emotions are driving, which are within the body at the somatic level, it's not at the intellectual level. So even if I can tell my mind, hey, there's nothing to feel helpless about, or there's nothing to feel shameful about, I won't even know when it's hit the system, and that's what's driving me to take my next action.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Yes, wow.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

You gave a great point when you started owning, you're struggling.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Yeah, it's owning a story, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 36:56

It's owning a story, but at the body level, right? Like really owning that, and then being able to see what's driving you.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Yeah, yep. I love it. I love honesty. It's something that I just never did. I was never always hiding things about myself before, and I'm so honest now, and I like it. I feel I've built far healthier relationships just by showing up as my honest self. Um, your work blends nervous system repair, somatic therapy, attachment work, and emotional intelligence. What shifted for you personally that made you realize healing isn't just mental, it has to evolve the body as well.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

Um, it was not a clean linear line. If someone I am I am a classic intro extra. I, if I had my way, I would be hiding under the blanket and not doing this work. I'm being very honest. Because it's it doesn't come naturally to me to want to promote myself or the or this work. I'm very passionate about it. So my journey was similar. I was very happy in my corporate career, you know, and then even when I started entrepreneurship, because I really wanted to um bring what I believed into the work, into the world. When I started, it was because I was really struggling inside. The stress was showing up, and I was always stressed. And when I would go to the, like I had I was on top of things, but internally, something didn't feel and when I would talk to people, they would say, Oh, I'm busy, or this, I'm stressed. That word stressed did not make sense, give me answers to what was happening in my body. I had chronic fatigue, I get burning out. Um, from job after job, I had different careers, I would get to the high, and then I would crash again. And and then I started my own business um years ago. This was like my almost 12 years ago, I started to startup. This was before apps became big. And it was actually a health and wellness.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Let me ask you, you said you liked the did you like the work you were doing?

SPEAKER_03 39:00

I was actually, I won't lie. I loved I loved like you know, tax. I loved, I was in banking afterwards, it gave me purpose. I I was client-facing roles, I had very intellectual and also relationship roles. I really loved them. So it did not, well, it was driving me, it was giving me a purpose, and I enjoyed it. But because I was struggling internally and externally, I couldn't find the answer. And I still look like I was just like everyone else. I was doing fine on paper, go for drinks with friends, you know, and on Friday nights and then Saturday, Sunday, you're still working a little bit, then you're relaxing, and then Monday, same thing started. But it was the start and stop in my system. I couldn't get answers of it. And then I started my own health and wellness 12 years ago, which was called Live Being Fit at that time. It was like this whole startup with experts from all parts of the world trying to create something for high-achieving individuals. Six months into that, I crashed again and I couldn't figure it out. I'm like, what's going on here? Here I am working with the top experts, and I'm crashing again. And that's when my real journey started. Then I that's when I started to question so where is the wellness not bringing the bridge to what's actually happening in the real world? And that's when slowly studying my own journey. I started meditating when that brought up stuff, then I started personal development, then I started getting curiosity about somatic work, started training into that. That didn't give me the full answer. Then I started looking at attachment styles because my relationship was struggling and the way I was showing up, and slowly studying like the different modalities you explain. I just, it was not a linear process of, hey, I need body. It was more about my mind still going crazy. Why is it going crazy? And I'm meditating and it's bringing stuff up, but when I'm out in the world, I can't bridge the gap. Why why can't I bridge the gap? And that's and through this work, I realized, oh, there's stuff happening in the body, and body is has more information information than mind can ever bring because body takes time to process, mind's going so fast. It's so I hope that answers the question. So it was through it, it was not like a linear insight I had one day, Saru, you need to have body, or I listened to some experts.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

It was such a journey, and it's ongoing, it's always ongoing, isn't it? It's always ongoing. Is there a like a time delay between the mind to the body for the body to understand?

SPEAKER_03 41:38

Oh, spot on. I mean, I think there's a lot of my there's a big delay, also because we are used to listening to the mind. The body has to wake up in some ways, the way we have become. Our bodies are in some ways frozen. It's they're they're frozen. Like I always used to say, there's a word I used to learn, landing. Am I landed in my body? I might be doing yoga, but am I really in my body? So even sometimes you're not.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

You're just going through the motion.

SPEAKER_03 42:09

So going to the motion, or even when I'm breathing, when I have my like years ago, my breath used to be short. It's kind of developed on its own. I don't believe in the long breath inhale, exhale, because am I is my body still online? Is it just my breath going up and down? And I can still control my mind, but I'm actually not really embodied. I'm really not in the visceral sensation of my body. Because when I'll be in the visceral sensation, it's gonna bring up different stuff for me. And that's where I think the bridge between mindfulness and somatic work and nervous system work is important. It's not just one or the either. You cannot just do trauma work and not bring embodiment by learning to sit in the body.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

Does that answer your question?

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Like it's but everything holistic. It's like you can't go to the gym and lift weights and then smoke a pack of cigarettes and say you're healthy. It's got to be a holistic thing, it's gotta be a holistic thing. Yes. No, I absolutely agree with that. And it's sort of a domino effect, isn't it? Once you start fixing one area of your life, you want to start fixing the area.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

And then in insight creates awareness. So, like in some ways, like, you know, if we're talking about is inside, we're talking about discussion, but embodiment creates change. So we can be insightful, right? Like, I know this, I can explain my emotions, I can talk about my emotions, but that's a insight, that's just awareness. Oh embodiment is at the body level, that's what creates change.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Okay, that's a really good point because there's a lot of people that say, you know, you can read all these books, read all these books, but if you're not actively implementing anything in them, it's really just entertainment, isn't it? It's just going in one ear and out the other. Embodiment creates change.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

Like you can do emotional intelligence courses. It's all nicely packed, like science is packed, but very nicely, intelligently. But when Emotions rise, they have five emotions at one time. I was telling a client the other day, last week, because I wanted to explain to them this is natural. I woke up in the morning at 5 a.m. Sorry, 1 a.m. and I couldn't understand. And when I started journaling, because I'm very aware of what's happening, literally I had five emotions show up at the same time: shame, fear, anger, grief, and confusion. It's ability to kind of understand and learn to navigate those emotions. And that's what's happening in the world at the moment. We are caught up in our emotions.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Yes. Yes. Look, embodiment, yes, that's when the change happens. But awareness is such a great place to start. And I thought on the yeah, one of my loveliest compliments is someone who said to me, You're very self-aware. Thank you. Like I really took that as such a compliment. But I just find the the people I clash with are the people who don't have the self-awareness. And I know that you can't preach to people that you have to just lit sort of lead by example and let people do them. But I'm like, you're poisoning my chi because you had you don't have self-awareness. Don't you think that self-aware people are just um they have more compassion or grace for others and it creates just a nicer environment?

SPEAKER_03 45:18

It does. So that's why, like, you know, the one um umbrella of whole self-method is whole self-awareness. So awareness is so important. Like otherwise, you can work with the coach, you can work with a therapist, but it's while you're working with them. But it's only when you create self-awareness over a period of time that you can change yourself. And then you have enough embodiment tools, how to navigate your emotions, how to work with your nervous system, you become like a whole functioning machine on your own. And then you can say awareness is definitely the first step. But then after that, there are other steps. And of course, Steph, you've already done a lot of work the way you're saying. So for your for you, awareness probably comes very naturally now. But I'm talking about depressed. Yeah, likewise, you know. But I'm talking about when we are only feeding awareness through intellect, but not bringing the body in or the nervous system or the emotions really in, the change is not going to happen.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

That's such a great sort of advert for what you do. Um, I was gonna ask you what you do with your work, but you you described it so beautifully there with that whole self-method. It's um, what did you say? You become a whole machine. What did you say?

SPEAKER_03 46:36

So you become like a whole function, like whole. I always say like you become like a separate organism. I forgot the word I use. It just came, but I always tell my clients or like clients who worked with me two years ago, and even now someone gave me another review recently. Their life has changed because the system has changed internally. When your system changes, you kind of become like a new whole organism which knows how to function, which and that's what the whole self method is all about.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

No, but you do have to do it internally, you know, like people will move across country or move into state. Your problems are gonna follow you. It's not the it's not necessarily just the environment, you need to work on the inside first. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

Oh my god, I'm so glad you said that. This is what I actually realized when I quit my job and then I started my business, and then I went back to corporate after that. I'm like, so the person who actually quit her job, because everyone said corporate is evil, and that's what I believe too, like, you know, and then I went to my business, and I'm like, one six months to one year, I'm crashing again. So the so the person who's moving is me.

SPEAKER_02 47:40

I hear it.

SPEAKER_03 47:41

Yeah, such a humbling.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

It's humbling. I said, My husband, 2025 was so freaking hard because I started the year by going straight back to work when my son was five and a half months old. A few months later, I quit, and then I was grateful to be with him, but then we were stressed trying to figure out how we were gonna make the money. And I said, It's only now, halfway through 2026, that we're both feeling so in joy and abundant in our lives because you know, we had to, like I said, you've got to make a big mess first before you really clean it all up. And that that was our 2025 was messy. This year is feeling very joyous and abundant.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

So oh, thank you for sharing that. That is such an important point, Steph. A lot of people wouldn't say, I always say there's genius in messiness. That's a line I always say. Yes, there's a genius, our genius comes in messiness. One of my mentors used to say that years ago. There's a genius in messiness.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

There is. Would you like to see the um crayon drawings? I've let my son do all over.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

Please, I would love to.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

I was like, look, he's in his zone. I'll figure out later which cleaning products will get that off.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

But aren't kids genius in some ways?

SPEAKER_01 48:49

I love watching him in his element. He really looks like a little Picasso who likes the way he likes. I think my husband wants him to be very sporty, and I think he's taking after the very artistic side of my side. And he runs around looking at what he can draw in, and he's really passionate when he draws. And I'm like, oh, I love watching it. Like they're in their zone of genius, aren't they, when they're concentrating? It's a beautiful thing to watch. Uh, speaking of children, you've shared that as a child you developed a stutter from suppressing your emotional self. This was the question I was most interested to ask you, Saru. Looking back now, what do you think that younger version of you was trying to communicate?

SPEAKER_03 49:24

I think there was a lot of fear and a lot of change. So when I look back, my parents had moved from a smaller town to a bigger town in India. So I was born in India, I was raised in India, I was in India until I was 20. And then after that, I moved to US and then Australia, and now in Dubai. So I pretty much lived my you know, my life mid-east and west. So I consider myself a mix. Um so my parents had moved from a smaller town to from India to a bigger town. And there was a lot of stress, a lot of pressure. And I and now looking back, I can see I was I was a very sensitive child, but more than that, I think also the fear I took in, the emotions, like not being able to express what I'm feeling, because as children, and I think this goes on to probably your story which you shared, like you know, you feel like with a child, you kind of you spoke about how with children, if we are not aware as parents, we don't know what we are passing on. And because probably as a child, I picked up my parents' fear when they moved from a small town to a bigger town and had to make ends meet and start life again. And my father had to start a new business, my mom and like my parents are doing really well now, but it was a long journey of struggle and trying to make ends meet for a while. Yeah, I picked up their emotions, I picked up a lot of stuff and I didn't have places to uh go and talk. And I still remember the first time when I joined the school in Chandigarh, where we my parents moved a town in India, which is actually a very beautiful town, which is not like the rest of India. It's it was designed by a French architect. So it's a newer town, it's like a 60-year-old town. Um, I went to school and I was asked to be introduced, and I still remember that memory. Uh, I've worked, I've worked a lot on this aspect of myself, but when I was asked to introduce, I saw I stood up and the word that came stuttered, and everyone started laughing. And and that started a new journey of trauma. It's a trauma. It's it's like it was like a long journey off, a lot of stuttering, disassociation from myself. I would go to school and kids would start mocking me. And that was pretty much it, it it doesn't mean that I didn't, I didn't know, I was very creative as a child, but that also meant it shaped up a lot of my life, and I can only see it now, you know, because it I still went and did my MBA, I did great things in life, but that little girl who stuttered and who didn't feel safe and who learned, it's not safe to express, it's not safe to share my fear because others around me can't hold me, always kind of was underplayed. And I think can she can still come online, and I think that's where also the control comes in. And probably a lot of people can relate because they have their own different stories, which they they like mine was so visible, stuttering, so I had to kind of go and look at it, what's happening. But a lot of people, the stories are not that visible, but something is still driving them to do what they're doing, and it's just happening within.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Yes, yeah, and you might not have the language until you don't have the language or the understanding of it until you're an adult. You sort of just when you're a kid, you just this is my life, this is this is how it is. It's you don't really question things as much. And there's certainly, you know, I think the older generation thinks we're pointing the finger of blame, but we're not like I'm immensely grateful for the way my family took care of me as a child and how hard my dad worked. My dad came from Sicily and came here not speaking a word of English and you know, built his business and took care of all of us, and it was a single income home for so long. And but there's definitely um they didn't have the language to deal with their emotions. That generation, that whole generation, all my friends say the same thing about their parents. And I feel there was a lot of as I was just a deeply emotional, sensitive, empathetic child and an adult as well. And I I feel there was a sense of um, and this is where my control came from. I think I wanted to make sure that everyone was happy in the home, or it meant emotional instability for me. You know, if someone was gonna be upset, I knew I was gonna have a bad night. So I just want to make sure everyone's okay, and I feel like there's a part of me that still tries to do that, you know, like um, yeah, but they didn't have the language to deal with their own emotions, and I think that's why our generation as children took that on. Would you agree?

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Oh, I I think you just like I think it's you're sharing something similar to what I just shared, right? Like we see like your journey as well. So Italian, I mean, culture is also very passionate, like Indian culture can be like very um emotionally like available, like when I say available, like you know, very in touch with, but that it can have strong emotions as well. So in some ways, and that generation, it could be in any culture, I think the focus was not given that much to children's again. I'm not pointing blank, but this knowledge is quite new, how to bring up. Like when I look at my friends raising kids now, or my nieces' nephews.

SPEAKER_01 54:34

Oh my god. So different.

SPEAKER_03 54:36

It's so different, so different. Those generations, they didn't have an option. Like, like you said, like your parents came and they had to work hard. My dad came from a smaller town to big town, had to work hard. So there was no availability for, I mean, they provided for me, they raised me well, but no availability for my emotional needs.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

And also, but like the mothers didn't even have mother groups to get together and talk about hey, parenting's really freaking hard. Like they they just had to deal with it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:05

And they had to deal with it, and and that's true for like you know, some cultures like Italian, Indian, but I've also worked with so many clients from American cultures, like, you know, where it's a similar thing, but their struggles are different. Like, you know, they're just taught to have everything together, you know, and just go on with life. And that means a different kind of suppression, right?

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Where you just become I think it's yeah, definitely cultural, but I still think it's more generational because I'll see, you know, like my you know, the younger relatives in Sicily being so different to the way my dad and his siblings. Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 55:39

No, no, 100%. I agree with you, but I'm saying, like, you know, it's generational, but across different cultures, it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 55:47

Same, it's the same thing. It just shows up in a different way. It shows up.

SPEAKER_01 55:50

Totally, because I actually prefer the Sicilian way where it was like yell and get your emotions out indicative. Whereas the Aussie side was more uh like manipulative and passive aggressive and like not sure emotions. 100% alive. But like that makes me feel way more walking on eggshells. Like, I'd rather let's yell and just get it out. And that's how I am with my husband. Like, let's just talk about our feelings and let's just get it out now and deal with it. That's yeah, I just I prefer communication, even if it is a bit yelly.

SPEAKER_03 56:22

No, this is this is funny. So, like, you know, um my parent, my family is like that. They're very like you know, they can they can get mad and angry. And I think as a child, because I put a lot of fear in, even though I can be like that, I kind of suppress that. And my current husband's like that, very passionate. And it's taken me some time to get used to, even though I'm very passionate myself, and I agree with you. Like, then there's just honesty. There is like, you know, you know at the face value what you're getting, and it just I mean me too. Me too.

SPEAKER_01 56:50

Walking on eggshells. I just want to let's deal with things now, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:53

Now and get it done with.

SPEAKER_01 56:55

Yeah, I think my personality is just more of the Sicilian side, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:59

Yeah, mine too.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

Yeah, so interesting. Well, well, that's why probably why when different cultures marry, things arise, you know. Like when my husband and I, we understand each other now, but when we first got together, I think he was a bit like, whoa, I can't deal with all of this emotion coming at me, you know. And I was like, I would get worse because he's not communicating, so I'd get up all up in my head. So it definitely took a good six months to understand each other, and now we get it, you know. But yeah, different cultures can bring up the the different upbringings for sure. Okay, you've given such wonderful insights today, Sarah. And I feel like you and I could really, we understand each other very well, and we could really want some more talk about. Yeah, very much. So we'll keep in touch online for sure. Um, but this show is all about filling up your cup. So, what's something you'll be doing in the next week to fill up your cup?

SPEAKER_03 57:44

Um, so one thing, something I do actually pretty much every day is meditation. I like some things I do every day is like moment of the body, moving of mind, you know, connecting with my feelings. So, like I kind of really make space for that. Um, something I'm really looking forward to doing this week is actually my father is traveling from to spend one day uh with me, and my relationship has changed quite a lot with him as I have learned to settle more in myself as a woman, and when I'm not always in the high achieving, like highly functioning role, and I think that's allowed me to soften for men in my life. Like, I'll be honest with you, this was like a struggle. Um I didn't think of it as a struggle years ago, but it allows me to soften for men in my life.

SPEAKER_01 58:34

Where okay, so what you're describing is getting into your feminine energy, and not in terms of male, female, but no, no, no, but the feminine is the being energy, being energy, and it allows me to just, and I think that's what I that's how I fill my cup.

SPEAKER_03 58:46

So when I'm always on the go, and that's taken me years of practice, it's not this this energy doesn't come through, you know, doing yoga, or it doesn't just come through going for spa days. It's actually comes through working with my emotions, having the ability to sit still, having the ability to go with the flow of the body rather than the mind, rather than being in the push. And that's how I kind of fill my cup. And I'm really looking forward to doing that this weekend with my father rather than just with myself.

SPEAKER_01 59:17

So lovely. You really you're very insightful, you're very self-aware, but you really embody what you talk about. I love that so much. But I really like how you, you know, relationships with parents as we've gotten older can can be complicated. So I like how you said those relationships have improved as you've settled into yourself more. That's really beautiful. I like that so much. Thank you. Yeah, that's lovely. Thank you so much for everything you've shared with us today. It's been very vulnerable and really beautiful. And I think the audience will take so much away from this. And everyone, check out the show notes because I'm going to link everything for you in there, Sarus, so everyone can check you out if they want to work with you further. But thank you so much for your time today.

SPEAKER_03 59:58

And I also want to say thank you so much, Steph, for your honesty and bringing such an authentic self and like really going deep with me. Because I know it makes such a big difference who's asking you the questions and if they're willing to go there as well. So thank you so much. I've really enjoyed this chat with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

I appreciate that very much because I I don't look at myself as an interviewer. I look at myself as having joint discussions. And so if people think, oh, I'm talking to, I'm like, I'm not Oprah, I'm not interviewing. I'm here to get deep and have a conversation, but I want to talk just as much as my guests to share. But I find the more I share, the more they're willing to share. So that's I love that. Thank you. I appreciate that very much. Oh, thank you so much. I really love that. And you enjoy your time with your father. That sounds lovely. Thank you. Beautiful. And everybody, please do something in the next week to fill up your cup. Thank you again for being here today. I hope that this episode brought some value to you. I look forward to your company in the next episode. And please connect with me on socials to keep this love fest going. Feel free to DM me with any questions at all. And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a loved one or in your Insta stories. And if you're feeling super generous, a review on Apple Podcasts would be greatly appreciated. I'll catch you in the next episode.