Why Working Less Won’t Save Your Marriage (the work:life balance BS) l EP. 92 l

Most men think the problem is “work-life balance.”

It’s not.

The real problem is that work has become the safest place to hide.

In this episode of Behind Closed Doors, Harrison Orr breaks down the difference between:

•  working from purpose 
•  working from avoidance 
•  providing vs escaping 
•  quantity of time vs quality of presence 

This is for the high-performing man who:

•  loves his work 
•  feels pressure at home 
•  struggles to switch off 
•  feels guilty no matter where he is 
•  wants to provide without losing himself, his marriage, or his family 

Because most men don’t need to work less.

They need to understand:

•  what they are actually chasing 
•  what they are avoiding 
•  and how to become fully present wherever they are. 

You don’t have a time problem.

You have an internal leadership problem.

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If you’re a business owner or high-performing man whose life is stable on paper — but your marriage feels flat, your presence at home feels off, or you’re tired of trying harder without real depth or connection click below to apply for coaching.

Apply HERE 

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Transcript

Harrison Orr (00:05.934)
Is this balance a myth? And do you need to stop working or slow down working to save your marriage?

Harrison Orr (00:15.992)
You're listening to the Be Better podcast. I'm Harrison Ohr and I help men that are defensive, withdrawn and people pleasing update their identities so that they can lead themselves and their marriage to a place of deep connection and fulfillment. So in this episode, we're going to talk about the myth that there is this mystical place of work-life balance where we can suddenly find this place where we're working enough to pay the bills and make the money that we want.

still have enough time for our personal hobbies and fitness and health and everything and still have time for our wife and our kids. And everything is in this perfect symmetrical balance of life, which I think is bullshit. I don't know who came up with that term. I've never met anyone that is in that place. I've heard plenty of people striving for it. Like I just need more work life balance, which

I've never heard that coming come from a person who loves their work. I've only actually in hindsight, I've only ever heard that from people that worked nine to five jobs that worked jobs that they weren't fulfilled by. And so it's worth noting if someone is telling you, need more work life balance, you need to work less or you should work less. Be very careful of that word should.

You should work less. should spend more time with your family. You should do this. You should do that. No one is going to have the context of your life better than you. No one is going to know your life and the intricacies of your life better than you. No one is going to know the goals and desires you have for this life and for your marriage and for your business than you. So be very careful about whose perspective you take on this, even mine.

that don't have those insights.

Harrison Orr (02:14.53)
Because recently I've been sharing more of my story on online, both in different formats, right? There's the story of when I was working, growing the two businesses at once and working in face-to-face gyms, running the group fitness classes, burning myself out, trying to be a better provider, trying to make more money and do everything. And then there's the letter that I wrote to my son about

about this time in my life and my goals for the man that I'm becoming and who I want to be as a father to him and how I'm doing all that for him and for us and this journey so that hopefully he doesn't find himself in a position that I have and hasn't been able to learn from my mistakes and my journey. Cause that would be, I think that would be one of the hardest lessons or hardest things to observe.

as a parent, seeing your kids in a position that you are in and watching them have to having to struggle through instead of being able to learn from, from your mistakes. Like both of us having to suffer through that, that'd be tough. And so on, on these stories on this, these letters, there've been people on both sides, like some posting about, well, know, quitting those jobs and

doing this was all one dimensional, right? It's impractical. It's stupid. I don't like this. Funny comments to make about somebody else's story. But anyway, and then there's people on the other side saying, well, you know, your wife doesn't appreciate you working so hard and she's just this and she's just that. And unnecessarily mean comments. And it's interesting how

very quick people are to make a judgment of someone else's situation like they know better with limited information.

Harrison Orr (04:13.996)
And so that's why I share that caveat to this of if you're feeling like you need to do something different because you're being pressured into should do something different, you should work less. You should X, Y, Maybe, maybe if you are genuinely happy with the balance that you have right now in the way that you're living your life, in your marriage, in your fatherhood, in yourself, in your business, then disregard what anyone else says, keep doing what you're doing.

But if there is elements in your life that you are not happy with, then it's worth opening up that possibility that mind as to what else might be out there. Right. And a lot of people say, well, you work too much. So just work less and, and put more time into your wife and your kids. And that seems to be the stock standard advice for business owners or people that love to work hard. Right. And especially career driven men that

have so much drive in their career and their work because they get so much out of it, right? They get status, they get financial gain, they get like the gain of the business or the positions as they go up, they maybe even get fulfillment and purpose out of it as well. Like part of their just makeup is just to be driven and just to strive for more and to tell a man like that who work less.

It feels insulting. It feels like having been in that position, you look at those people that just tell you to work less and

instantly, you probably want to just block your ears. Like, fuck off. I'm not going to lower my standards just because you're weak. I'm not going to do this just because you had to. And there's this ego about it also as a protective mechanism because for a lot of men in that space that

Harrison Orr (06:25.054)
what they have used as drive for their business, like the time and energy they put into their career or to their work. Like there's an element of passion there. No doubt. There's a passion drive like places for sure that can easily blend into a avoidance tactic.

into a source of distraction from hard conversations, from things at home that they want to avoid and where that line is, is going to be different for everybody. But it's entertaining that thought of my drive to work and do these things when, and it's not yes or no, like one or the other. It's, it's going to be moment to moment. Like when is this driven by my desire to

to be more, be better, to earn more, to grow that status and that business in that position versus when am I avoiding something? When am I avoiding a conversation with my wife? When am I avoiding something at home? When am I avoiding something in myself? Avoiding feeling something in myself? When am I using work or business as a distraction from the glaringly obvious?

hold and lonely marriage that I found myself in. When am I using my business as a distractor from the fact that I barely know who my kids are, that I haven't been intimate with my wife in months, that all of these things are happening and business and work gives you a reward. gives you something to focus on. Finding that line.

can make a huge difference. And it's something that not many people can find on their own. That's why I highly recommend getting a coach or a mentor or someone external to be able to navigate this so that you can see that line. So that you're not just throwing the baby out with the bathwater because so many men think that, well, to do all these things that my wife wants to have this amazing marriage, I need to sacrifice my career. need to spend all this time at home. It's like, well, even if you spent more time at home in the current state,

Harrison Orr (08:39.886)
It probably wouldn't work out any better because what's important is not quantity of time, but quality. That's why for so many people, just going on more dates doesn't fucking work because you can go out to breakfast more. You can go out for lunches and dinners more. But if you're bringing the same energy and attitude that you had at home, just out to a restaurant, well, it's not going to change anything. You're just going to have the same conversation in maybe some nicer clothes and in a restaurant instead of in the kitchen.

So it's not about the date nights. It's not about the quantity of time together. It's about the quality of time together. It's about the emotional connection, the emotional availability of one another. That is what's going to make the difference if you feel that you're in that space. All right. And this is also a good.

a good opportunity for a lot of people to understand themselves a hell of a lot better because there is no golden rule of you should spend X amount of time working X amount of time with your wife X amount of time with your, your kids per week. And that's the golden ratio for life. It just doesn't exist. Like you've got people like Elon Musk, who work a ridiculous amount of hours every single week.

But then you look at his track record, maybe has questionable relationships with his partners or ex partners or like the mother of his kids or maybe his kids. don't know. I haven't looked into Elon Musk family relationships, but you would say that that would be a common trade off for working that hard, having that bigger mission that he does. The trade off is going to be some sacrifice with the relationship, his personal relationships, right? That would just be a given. But then there's

people on the other end of the spectrum where happy to just do a, a job, work for somebody else, do the bare minimum job, make enough money to pay mortgage and stuff like that and spend as much time as they can with their, their kids and their wife. Totally happy to do that. Then there's people in the middle, right? There's the optimizers, the business owners, everything else like that. And knowing where you are in all these spaces will take

Harrison Orr (10:59.47)
so much pressure off you. Like if you were someone who was driven to want to work 60, 70, 80 hours plus a week, and you've got this thing in the back of your head that says like, you're a shit dad, you should be more present, you're a shit husband, you should be more present, you need to be doing this for your family, you you're failing them and all this stuff. First of all, maybe worth listening to that voice a little bit, what it's actually trying to tell you, because that will help you discern between, I,

working in the business because I love it and I'm enjoying it and it's, fruitful versus where am I actually avoiding something? I'm avoiding the parts of me that I haven't known the parts of my childhood that I'm subconsciously passing onto my kids and everything there. And then you can navigate you. You understand that part, you update it, and then you can move through with ideally no more guilt. Right? You've, you've got your time for your business. You've time for your kids, your time for your wife, and you don't feel guilty about whatever you're doing.

I think that's where a lot of people start to become very ineffective because you're not present in them in whatever you're doing, but they create a hole for themselves because they're working. They feel guilty that they're not with their family when they're family with their family, they feel guilty that they're not working. So then they're not present in either of the situations. They're not effective and not having high quality of time in either situation. And so everything suffers.

They feel like no matter what they do, they're not good. It's not good enough. They spend time with their family. They're like, fuck, I to be working. I to make more money when they're doing the opposite. And so it's understanding these parts of you.

understanding what is the, what does it look like for you? What is the ideal day, the ideal week look like for you where you have enough time to have the impact, make the money, whatever it is, whatever it is that you get from work to be able to do that.

Harrison Orr (12:59.084)
or yourself time for yourself, time for your wife, for your kids and feel like, I don't want to say you are balanced, but feel like you are whole, right? Not feeling like you are missing out on any of the way you're not somewhere that you shouldn't be.

Harrison Orr (13:20.322)
Because when you, when you know who you are, how you are pro, when you know these things for yourself, then you can do all this without the guilt.

because you've owned the parts of you that maybe try to pull you in different directions. You're not trying to live up to somebody else's standards of you should do this or you should do that. Like if your marriage is genuinely on the rocks or you're having problems in that area, look at why you have the problems in there. And I can guarantee it's not just because you don't spend enough time there. There's, there's other shit. There's the way that you're showing up in the times that you are there that probably needs more addressing than just working less. And then also what's driving you.

Cause if your main driver for making more money and growing a bigger business is driven from the fact that you are only as good as the money that you make or the success that you get from your business and that you're not worthy or you're not enough, you could work a thousand hours a week and it won't be enough. You can make hundreds of millions of dollars a year and it won't be enough. And you keep beating yourself up over it.

but you do this parts work, identify where that's coming from. And then you can be driven by purpose and mission. once you're out of survival, right? This is all given that, okay, you're not struggling to make ends meet. You've cleared all your basic needs. You've even got some going into investments and all that stuff. This is more like big play. Then you can actually identify what it is that you want to be doing with life. Because when we get to do this,

We then start thinking about the legacy play.

Harrison Orr (15:04.428)
When you've got your base needs met and ideally even maybe before your kids get too old, you start to look at how you're showing up impacts them and the lessons that they are learning from you in the way that you show up or don't for them. Like I never remembered this one client that I had years ago when I was doing more based coaching, right? It was mainly nervous system stuff with no diet and training.

And I had this client who was a truck driver, made decent, decent money. And, but he would work like 10 days on two, three days off. Right. That was his usual roster. And I said to him, I was like, mate, would you change jobs? Like, would you ever want to spend more time with your family? And in a fucking heartbeat is like, no, because I'd be unhappy is I genuinely

fucking love driving trucks. Like looking back, like almost to the point of like autistic level of love for trucks, but do just love driving trucks. Like he's like, man, when I I'm, I'm in the truck, I'm heading down the highway. It's just me in the road and the truck. Like it's, it brings me a level of peace that I haven't found anywhere else in life. Like, man, that's beautiful. Like I love that for you. And

He said, if I were to give this up just to spend more time with my kids, I would be miserable around them. I would end up getting probably resentful and I would also be teaching them to give up what they love and prioritize other people's needs over their own. And that's not an example that I want to set for them.

Well.

Harrison Orr (16:53.88)
That's pretty profound,

Like I don't think many people consider that when they think about the time that they spend with their kids and the examples that they set and the actions that they do. Like what lessons are your kids learning from this and how is it impacting your ability to show up for your kids and for your partner and your family? Cause even though, you know, taking this into a small example, seeing a lot of people feel selfish for going to the gym. I feel bad for going to the gym for, know, for, for 90 minutes because

then it's not time with my kids or my partner has to look after them and whatever else that you're modeling health to them. If that's what you love and enables you to show up better, then do they not benefit because they have a better experience of you being there rather than more time, but just lower quality, like lower engagement.

Harrison Orr (17:53.592)
I've heard Jesse Itzler talk about this and he, I think he said he wants three hours a day. Right. This guy's a billionaire. He's a billionaire. You wouldn't think that looking at him, but he is, I think he, he sold his company for like a billion. I think his wife even outdid him. So well off like out outside the bell curve in terms of financial position and you

things that have to get done in life, like working and whatever else, but cool model that we can always then scale up or down. He said, I need three hours a day for myself. He's like, if I have three hours a day for myself, I'm happy to do whatever the fuck sand Sarah, his wife wants to do, whatever the fuck the kids want to do. I'm good. I'm taking care of me. And for him, that's usually some long ass run or bike ride, his sauna, maybe some, some journaling or meditation. It doesn't need to be three hours like straight, but

throughout the day is like, if I've got that and if I've done that and Sarah's like, Hey, you know, I want to go to the, to the theater. I want to go and do this. he's like, yeah, sure. Let's go. Okay. No, where else to be. love that. But if he hasn't done that, he's going to sit there kind of muttering under his breath, like, I should be doing this. I don't want to be here. This is stupid. I hate this. And like blustering that and that's not good.

Harrison Orr (19:18.67)
So I think learning actually how to be selfish and seeing how that allows us to show up better as the man that we want to be and take some of that pressure away. And you'd actually enables you to be real with yourself and with your wife and your kids. Because I think that's the big mismatch is if you've, you've dedicated your wife, your life to, to your career, to your business and it's set things up.

you know, for your family. If you have no intention of slowing down, like if you want to keep on this schedule, you're loving this and it's doing well for you and for the family and everything.

Communicate that like actually communicate that because what's going to end up? What's the phrase I'm looking for like I was a body you was done Got the phrase anyway, just coming back to haunt you is if you are If your wife is expressing concerns about hey, we want you we want your homework

When are you going to slow down? said you would do this. You'd said you'd have more time. You said, you said, you said all these things and you keep just making these promises, kicking that can down the road, but you actually don't want to or you have no intention to.

That's going to do more harm than good long-term. Actually better off to have the harder conversation and get real like, babe, I actually don't want to. I actually love work so much and I get so much for filming out of it. And this is what I want to keep doing. And I want to, this is how I want to show up. This is what my ideal life looks like in terms of work, work time, home time, time with you and everything.

Harrison Orr (21:00.91)
And then you guys can navigate that.

Harrison Orr (21:05.678)
a place of understanding and expectation where people get pissed off is when words, someone gives their word or an expectation or a promise is set and it's not followed through on that creates resentment. That creates frustration. But if you straight up, so no, I like working this. I promise that if I can do my, give my business, my, my career, this energy, then you will have

my energy on these times or these spaces. The kids will have my energy and time on these spaces. This is what I'm comfortable giving.

and then you get to have the conversation of misalignment or miss expectations, if that's the case.

because it's worth noting if I've been like this the entire marriage and I didn't promise I would change what made you think I would. Right? Not an easy conversation to have, but what I'm getting at is drawing the line between what you want and what your partner wants, not just folding to what someone else wants. Cause that's a guaranteed recipe for resentment and frustration. So

but we only get to that point where we know where we're truly operating from. Okay. I'm not avoiding hard conversations. I'm not avoiding things that I don't want to deal with at home.

Harrison Orr (22:31.65)
And I genuinely don't think too many people fall into the category of wanting to work so much that they would sacrifice time with their wife and kids. I'd say that would be quite a small percentage. I'd say most people fall into the category of they want to create enough wealth, maybe even into maybe even generational wealth, but enough wealth that they could be in a position to fuck you. And position to fuck you is you've got enough money to live off for six months without having to work.

whether it's a boss or a client or someone disrespects you crosses a boundary. Fuck you. You get rid of them. Like you don't have to, I need the money this month or whatever, whatever. Like, no, you can do what you want. You can live where you want to. You can like make all these decisions you want to and finances isn't a constraint because you've got enough set up. Like that's, I'd say most people's at least maybe not worded that way, but once you're in that kind of position,

then you can actually live the life that you want. But it takes a lot of people, this inner work to actually realize that, I can have flaws. I can need to work on my own self-worth and self-value and self-love and my wife is still gonna love me for who I am. I don't need to be this perfect man that makes millions of dollars a year and never makes a mistake and just says yes to everything for her to love me.

I don't have to be this, this thing to earn the love and approval of everyone around me. It starts with doing that for yourself.

But when you've got that, then you can decide on how much time you want to spend with your kids and your partner and everything. And that's the freedom that think a lot of people are striving for. So if that's the place that you're striving for.

Harrison Orr (24:26.894)
Then I love that for you.

And if you're feeling like your balance is off in life.

I'd look at how you're showing up. Look at where you're maybe trying to hide from certain emotions or certain conversations. You're using them as distractions. And maybe even look into whether it's myself or somebody else, look into having a conversation with someone, maybe some coaching or mentoring to highlight those spots and those parts of you coming out and to address and update them so that whatever your life looks like, you do it from self.

guilt free, self led, purpose led even if you subscribe to that, I wholeheartedly do. And then you just fucking love your life. And as hippie as it sounds, love yourself. And by extension, you'll be able to love your kids and your wife so much more because you're not operating from a place of scarcity or deficiency. You're radiating this shit because of the energy that you are.

That's a stock difference.

Harrison Orr (25:37.164)
and one that is hard to communicate via words if you've never felt that before.

It's one of the weirdest things to and express to someone, but it's one of the...

the most powerful things that I can express in the power of this work is feeling like yourself. Like people talk about authenticity all the time, but I don't think enough people know what it genuinely feels like to operate from that place of authenticity. Not operating from a place of, I need to do this thing to make money. Not operating from a place of, well, I'm going to do this thing because I hope they like me or I hope people approve.

not doing something out of guilt, not doing something because well, I hope my wife likes this or I hope it's the right thing or trying to avoid something else. Just getting to be wholeheartedly present and yourself is so fucking freeing, so liberating. And when you get there, life is easy. You so much less thinking and so much more doing.

Harrison Orr (26:44.75)
Pretty fun.

Harrison Orr (26:49.486)
So with that, if that's a space that you're in, below this is a link. You can apply for coaching. We can have a chat to see if you're in this dichotomy, if coaching would be right for you. But otherwise, I hope this reframe has been helpful. I hope this has given you a new lens to view the work-life balance bullshit that people spew, the difference in working for purpose versus working for avoidance, and any other little nuggets that you may have taken as to...

that have resonated for your life right now. Don't be sorry, be better. I'll see you next time.