Creative Marketing | What Role Should Creative Play in Your Life Science Company?

Explore the transformative role of creative marketing for life science companies with Alec and Drake. Learn how strategic creativity boosts brand awareness, engages audiences, and drives measurable results for your business.

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Music. Folks, you are going to love today's episode where I sit down with SCORR marketing's senior art director Drake Sauer, and we discuss the role that creative and design should play for life sciences companies. This is a topic that is near and dear to my heart, because I don't believe that B to B marketing should be boring. It doesn't have to be boring, and it should be fun. And there's nobody better to speak to this topic than Drake and so on this episode, what you're going to hear are a couple of different topics. We go back and forth on establishing your brand within the B to B space, how to create memorable experiences, how your creative teams can help distill complex ideas and systems into digestible content. And then we also talk a little bit about design and creatives role in helping glue together this kind of intersection of marketing, business development and the science aspect of your organization. I promise you you're gonna want a pen and a notepad for this one, because there are so many good insights that Drake brings to the table. Enjoy this episode. Look at this Drake. We are We are live. I am so excited for today's conversation. We've got the wonderful Drake Sauer here, the senior art director at SCORR Marketing. Today's conversation is a little bit different than ones we've had in the past. I feel like Drake, and maybe that's why people are so excited. I was I was telling you, before we hopped live, that I was getting a lot of messages yesterday and today about people that were like, Yep, we're definitely attending. We've got a lot of questions. What does this look like? How can we really achieve creative marketing in the life sciences space. So we're going to, we're going to do fast and furious. We've got 30 minutes. I see people are starting to join. If questions come in, I'm going to throw them right at you. Otherwise, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to hit you with some hard hitting questions about why life science marketing, why B to B marketing is is boring, but before we do that, before we jump in and why don't you go ahead, just real quickly, on behalf of yourself, and introduce yourself to the to the team here. Well, thanks so much. I'm excited to be here to talk with you. My name is Drake Sauer. I am the Senior Director at SCORR Marketing. I've been with SCORR for just about 10 years now. Prior to that, I actually worked in more business to consumer products, so I've seen both sides of that area. I work alongside our chief creative officer to make sure that all the branding, logo work, identities that are going out the door are on strategy, differentiate our clients. Work with everyone from heavy hitters in the industry down to startups in every aspect of life sciences. So I've seen a lot through that time, and have seen some trends that I think are applicable to our conversation today. I love it. I love it. Drake, I so appreciate you taking the time out of your day to have this conversation with us, because I think you said it. You know, there's trends, but there are going to be things that I think can be applicable to brands right now. I think one of the biggest misconceptions for me that I see, you know, in the marketing and then in our business development conversations, we were just in Boston for bio, is this complexity around branding, and that if you're going to do it, it has to be this giant thing and has to be really fancy and it's really expensive, and then you see the other side that's like, we can't do that because it's science. It's, it's not supposed to be that way. It's sales, it's, we're going to call people, and it's really business development forward, and there's not this thought process around the brand. So I'm going to put you right on the spot. I told you this to start this meeting, and this a question that I hear all the time is that, you know, B to B, and specifically, as we talk about the life sciences, can be very boring and it can be very scientific focused. What are some of the things that you see that can make the brand come to life? Why do you think that is, you know that that brands kind of tend to play a little bit more conservative or reserved from a brand. That's a lot of questions in one but I'm just going to put you on the spot. Microphones, yours here. Drake, all right. So I think when we talk about that aspect of being boring, what a lot of times we're really saying is that these brands are playing it super safe. Yeah, be, you know, life sciences, input. Particular, it is a heavy regulated industry, and businesses tend to mirror that. They don't want to step too far out of that box for fear of looking abnormal from the rest of the pack. So, more so than other industries, it's a lot of we all are going to look like this and stick together that way. And what happens is you lose that voice. Everything becomes homogeneous across the board, and when you start throwing competitors up side by side, you're like, Okay, I have no idea in some instances what you do or what differentiate to from the next guy over another aspect of this is when you get into the B to B side, historically, across all industries, it tends to be more buttoned up, because rather than selling to an individual consumer, you're selling to A counterpart in another business who then has to take, you know, I want to use this company to make our service better, or to compliment what we're doing, or to do something we can't do. They have to then run it up a flagpole to make sure that there's buy in across the board and human nature, we tend to start thinking outside of what we're experiencing. And we're like, how, how's the CEO going to look at these two companies, one that's a little a little extra, yeah, with their creative and and one that is more traditional. And they'll tend to because we do as humans play that safe side. So there's a lot of reasons that kind of influence that thinking when, when companies go into that, when we bring in a company and we're sitting down looking at what we can differentiate, I liken it to being a therapist a lot of times for for our clients, where they don't necessarily know what differentiates them, because they've never had to think about it that way. So we do these exercises where we hold up that mirror, and then when I'm presenting that creative to them, and they're looking at it. Sometimes I show it, and you know that mirror does not show what they want to see, right? And other times we show it, and you know it's a perfect representation of of who they are in a way that they've never been able to articulate it. The the creative side of that, you know, how can we make it look cooler? Right? To use a very vague term, comes from finding those hooks of what differentiates them and giving them something that stands out from the crowd, so that when someone comes to engage with them, they know, they know exactly what they're getting. They get a bit of that personality that a lot of others hide behind. They don't want you to see that they're you know a certain way. And you, you then invite potential customers to start building a relationship in a way where it's beyond just the the BD representative. It is the always on, you know, your brand is the the one BD sales person. And this is, this is not, this is not an attack on you. They're the one that they don't sleep. Yeah, they they are always there, and a properly maintained brand that has some of that personality there, and you can keep fresh. They'll want to keep coming back and engaging with and once you start doing that, it makes BD sale sales much easier. And vice versa, where, if you've got BD involved on that marketing aspect, they build and someone a potential customer, a then existing customer, feels a sense of loyalty and that I, you know, I get something special from this, and that's what we're ultimately trying to do, yeah, gosh, I You said that you were going to leave us with some insights right out of the gate. We're four minutes in, five minutes in. I've got so many follow up questions here, you know, talking about what the brand is and how that builds reputation, and then love the aspect of of the competition I'm gonna, I'm gonna jump there, because we were at, we were just in, in Boston for for bio, and then we were in Philadelphia for c, p, H, I North America. And it was so interesting because, you know, especially at bio, they put all of these similar. Companies right next to each other, and if you just remove the logos, they would all say the exact same thing. The designs were pretty similar as well. And I think one of the one of the challenges that I urge everybody to think about is that creative isn't just design. It's also the words that you use. It's the that's the value proposition, it's how you display it, but you have to stand out in one way or the other. And we were talking about this this morning, is it's not always just differentiation, but it's clarification, and that's what design can really allow you to do. And why wouldn't you want to do that? If there are eight things right here, and all of them are gray. Why would you want to be the ninth one that that's green, especially if you're trying to break into that marketplace, especially if you're trying to, you know, find a new target audience within that space too. Yeah, and it trade shows, especially you've got walls and walls of people in booths, and as someone who's I've exhibited, working in the booths, I have gone as a visitor. When you're walking through those aisles, it is so easy for everything to become gray. And if you don't give someone a hook and understand why they're walking in to talk to you. They're going to keep their head down, maybe grab a free pen if you've got one sitting on the table, and move on. And that's that doesn't help anyone. So when we start thinking about and we'll keep it on the trade show path for a bit. In my mind, for a successful trade show visit, you want content of some sort. You want your booth to be something it doesn't need to be crazy over the top. You don't have to spend hundreds of 1000s of dollars, but it has to have an inviting space for someone to come into, yeah, a booth experience, if, if you can build one that makes sense and ideally loops back around to what You're doing, that's that's a big plus. And then one that's often overlooked is the team that's going to be there working it. We've come up with so many, what I thought absolutely amazing ideas on what we could do for a booth activity. We've done special things shows that really wrap up everything and create this really immersive experience. And then we find out that that company's team could have cared less. Either weren't in the booth, they weren't playing along. People want to be entertained, especially at events like that, and if you can't mirror that and give them that reason to stop in, feel like something amazing just happened, so that they not only start thinking about you as a potential avenue to use, but you want them to walk away, and when they're talking to their buddy that they haven't seen in three years, say, Hey, did you see that booth over there, right? I just, it was super fun. We had a great time. The ideal situation is that at a trade show, you come away, yes, you want, you want to fill that pipeline. That's that's that. But if you've got three team members that are selling for you, but those three team members and the tactics that you have there can transfer their excitement to a handful of others that are not representing your company at all. That then become walking billboards and advertisements to say, hey, go talk to them. Yeah, that's your that's where it comes together. And, and ideally, to loop it all back, all of those things work together, that content, the experience, the booth, your workers. If all of that syncs up, you're in for a good show, regardless. Well, and, and Drake, you know what you're describing to me, and again, not a designer here, right? So, but what you're describing to me is, what I would say is the brand, right? I'm a big proponent that a brand is not a logo. A brand is not this just the CEO. It's not a tagline, it's everything. And so the way that I like to typically describe the brand is as simple as what people remember about you when they leave, and that includes the people at the booth, that includes the giveaway, that includes the strategy, that's everything that's encompassing So kind of going back, putting that back on you from a design perspective, from a from a from a creator perspective, you. Is that kind of your thought process when building a brand and making sure that we're on strategy, is that this isn't just one item, this is everything that we're going to do for the foreseeable future. Yeah, and this, you know, this is something that was great about SCORR, was that I lined up with the values that we have that when, when we start talking about a brand, it is all of those things. It's the value prop, the visuals, then stem from that value prop. They help extend that, as does the messaging, as you know, then you just keep going down the workers you know that that company themselves, all need to reflect that to be that experience. Because you think of the big brands that you know in your life, that brand has become a character in the background of your life, whether it's the clothing brands that you like, the car brand that you like, whatever that is, they become part of that. And it's not just I like how their their logo looks or I like how the packaging looks on this. It's so much beyond that. It's all of those experiences built upon each other to the point where you feel like you know and have fully understood and immersed in your, your engaged with that, that brand, and so, you know, for lack of a better term, a proper functioning brand almost acts as a mascot, like I said earlier, they're That BD member that's always there because they're all put together. And on the creative side is, as a designer, I want that to visually stand out from the pack. I want, I want that person to be so memorable in your mind that there's no mistaking it anywhere else, whether it's the copy or the visuals. Yeah, I think here's the argument, okay, okay, our side, our science, our science, will speak for itself, right? And that's something that we hear all the time, is that we don't need to put an emphasis on the brand, that the science, science will speak for it. I have gone on 1000 rants and 1000 meetings, and so I'm going to let you go on a rant. So you've got, we bring you an opportunity, Drake, and it's a great opportunity. It's a it's an up and coming company, and they want to say, we don't need to focus on the brand, because our science will speak for itself. What's the what's the counter argument, the the RE and I, you've kind of made it over the last 60 minutes already, but kind of honing in on this specifically, what does that look like to you? Well, to take a little step back before I dive into that, when you look at what is being done in this industry, life science industry, it is mind blowing. And I am regularly humbled and amazed at I sit in with brilliant scientists, brilliant CEOs that have brought together, an idea, a service, a solution that betters lives, yeah, and while what what you want out of that, what should happen is we should be elevating that. That's where the story lies for most of these companies, and that's what's lost a lot of times, is they are so zoned in, rightfully so, on that solution, on providing this potentially life saving opportunity, that they don't understand that those on the outside don't have that full story, right? You in an ideal world in this space, if you're selling B to b1, scientist to another scientist, they don't need to understand they'll understand what you're talking about, what you're bringing to them. That's not how any of these companies work. You have to sell sometimes to boards, private equity. You are selling to the government. You're selling to financial officers, you're selling and they've got, if they don't understand what you're selling, yeah, what you're talking about, you're going to struggle so much more than pulling in a creative to help distill down, okay, what? What about this process? What about this how can I make it so that I always like to think of it? Could I put. Together so that my parents could look at this and understand, granted, there are different levels of that need, right? But in an ideal world, you should be able to put it in front of a competent human and have them be like, Oh, I get this. You know, I don't understand the intricacies, but I get this. You understand that part of this, right? And and on. On that note, we run I run into this. We run into this a lot that it's either we're going to tell you every detail or nothing and creative can be brought in if, if, if they're pulled in in a way that helps elevate that you can say you have a process that you're you're trying to offer as a service. It is two schools of thought, where you either show everything and it ends up being a 40 page PowerPoint presentation of every step along the way and everything that happens, or we're going to talk about it in three bullets and move on. Ideally, you have that quick sale. You have the long, unabridged version. But the sweet spot in there that can be used across everything else is that interim piece, a piece that's brought in, creatives brought in and tells you enough so that you understand what you're going to get without giving the whole thing away, and that is if you lock in with a creative team that can listen to what you're trying to sell and then pull that back, your BD team starts speaking the same language. Your customers start understanding what, what is happening, and a consistent experience starts to emerge. And that's what customers want. I want to know what I'm going to get from you. Yeah. And so I think in a roundabout way, I got to your it's and it's not an easy answer. And the reason that I'm excited about your answer, especially where you finish, is one of the biggest things that I challenged companies to do when we're in the BD process, if they don't believe that they need a brand, is to go ask five internal employees that work on different teams, what how would you describe what we do here, and it you're probably going to get five different answers. And if that's confusing internally, imagine what it is externally. And you talk so much about, you know, how you're not just selling to one person. You know, there's multiple parties in this, but at the end of the day, you're selling to humans, and humans only buy things that they that they know that they like and that they trust, and so the brand is what's capable of doing that. And so I could go on for for 10, 2040, minutes, but you got three questions in here, Drake, you know you're really sparking the crowd this Thursday afternoon. You are nervous about my questions, but now it's a whole other ball game here. We've got a question from Barbara. She says, Drake, from a marketing perspective, your trade show, Dream experience is great. Everything needs to work together, the branding, the graphics, the message and the visitor materials, but the boost team members are perhaps the most important factor. They are the catalyst that brings it all together. If the marketing team puts the right people in that booth, they can create pure magic. I'm realizing that's not a question from Barbara, but it is a fantastic call out. And I think that's that's exactly the piece is. And I've talked about this after scope and after cphi is that now has to be taken into consideration for all trade shows, you can't just show up anymore. It's not enough just to be there. You have to have that entire story and strategy built before the show. Yeah, and, and something to add to that is right now, as the world returns to more in person events, people are still they're starved for, for what that was. And while, pre pandemic, we ran into situations where people are like, this is stale. That's old. It's, you know, there's people that have been going to trade shows for 2030, years, and they're like, we've seen it. It's just we're over it. The opportunity that exists right now is you have potentially people that have that are new to the industry, would have been considered new to the industry, that have worked their way up to decision making. Hers over the last three to four years, yeah, that are getting to go to shows for the first time. You can tap into that in a way that that you haven't been able to do. We basically reset what it was to go to a trade show. Yeah, what you could get out of a trade show. And people need to be cognizant that there's a lot of opportunity within there and and knowing where we were, you know how it's been, and then where we're at right now, that there's a lot of windows open that they're there for you. They can become brand ambassadors. You just have to engage with them and give them something to hold on to, and that would be ideally your brand, yeah, as a whole. So I love that. And I think the last piece there on Barbara's comment is, you, if you're going to build this team that's going to go. Don't just tell them they're going to the trade show, right? Give them as as much information as they possibly can. Who are the targets? What is this going to impact? Like show them the full picture. It's the same thing I always say about SMEs with content. If you just say, hey, subject matter expert, I need you to write a blog. I've got other things to do, right? But if you kind of sit them down and you show, okay, here's what we're trying to do. We're trying to build our thought leadership, our expertise, so people know the science, you know, that's type of, that type of full picture of what we're trying to do as a marketing program, as a business, is going to be really successful. So I love that, and I think it kind of lends itself to we got a comment here from Alec. The better Alec, not me. And every time I look over I see his your the bio says, I play golf, and I just love that. And so his comment is, I think the whole science speaks for itself. Idea proves to be true for recurring business and expansion retention, but won't do good for new business acquisition. And this is something that I believe wholeheartedly in, because I cannot tell you how many CEOs, CCOs, CFOs, that we have talked to that say, well, once we're in a room, once we have them, it's a lock. Like, we're going to get them like, we're going to make this work. We're going to do this once they see the science, once they see the facility, it's a no brainer. And it's like, okay, well, how do we increase those at bats? Right? Like, let's that's what we need to focus on moving forward. Yeah, and yeah, the you know, something that that can be done, and we do this with a lot of our clients, is to give more of a flexible platform for their brand. I think a lot of times they lock into thinking that they need some you know, we're either we either need to stay pretty stoic over here, or we're going to get crazy, and you can build a consistent brand that is able to stay stoic when it needs to, to get crazy when it needs to, and have that function together to keep the business that you have, keep them engaged, because you do need to, you know, this is the last thing you want, is a long term relationship getting stagnant, because they know what we do, right? You need to foster that, but you also want to bring in and get excitement from that new work. I've sat in on calls where we're talking about next steps for our branding exercises, what we're going to do, and you'll have a CEO say we're really not interested in getting more work. You know, we keep everything going as is, yeah, and, and if we want it, we just have to get, like you said, we just have to get in the room and we'll do that and and that first off, kudos to them, right, that they've been able to do that. But to such a net, it could be a potentially narrow path to sit there and think what we got going on is fine. We don't need to do any more. Think of what you could do if you added that. Yeah, it's just, you know, those opportunities are limitless. When you start thinking, okay, how can we build upon if you, if you got that much expertise, you're looked to that strongly. What can you do with a little bit extra what can you do bringing in that brand and creating a strong voice and strong visuals to really enhance what you're doing? Maybe it's not as much with your current clientele. Maybe you're not actively targeting new audiences. It could be into. Internal, internal, yeah, and that's an aspect that we haven't touched on at all today, but yeah, but creating long term brand representatives within your own company so that they're speaking on that same platform, everybody's in unison. If nothing else, it's going to make HR job easier. So we've gotten the HR people here, yeah, support, support the brand well. And I think Drake, you make a great point. And I know we're coming up on the half hour mark. I said we'd go a couple minutes long if we were on a roll. And every time you and I talk, I feel like we're on a little bit of a roll. But Lauren makes a comment in here as a comment question, you know, what are some of those best ways to leverage the BD team and their brand and and, you know, obviously I am one of those individuals that is a massive proponent of your employees having personal brands. I I'm gonna call Lauren out if she's still watching this, or if you're watching it later that she is one of those individuals that has an excellent brand herself, that that really combines with companies. And I like maybe, maybe that's just because the life sciences space is a little bit slower, but maybe 510, years ago, that really started to take off. And I think it's slowly taking off in this space, more so with CEOs and founders. But if you have alignment on the story. If you have alignment on the value proposition, why you exist all these things, then it's a dream scenario to be able to leverage BD team members, art directors, marketer, whoever it is, to be able to leverage them in the public eye as part of your brand. So it's kind of a comment, but a vague question as well, thoughts on how you can have people, a people focused brand, but then you also have the brand in general, you know, building up the company Well, I think, I mean, you outlined it incredibly well, and it's, it's one of the skills that that you have that I think should be replicated across the life sciences industry. I don't need any anybody stealing your your skills. But if you can get buy in, and there's constant communication between marketing and BD on, hey, what's coming up? What are you seeing? That's something that you know, we have those conversations regularly where it's what, what are you seeing? What? What problems are you having when you're selling? Can we change the presentations that you're using to accommodate that? Are you running into roadblocks here or vice versa? Are you having a lot of potential clients reaching out to you and saying, Hey, have you been dealing with x? Do you have any information on that? If that's related to marketing and can be absorbed into the brand so that you are sharing assets, you're sharing topics, you're sharing all of those pieces. You can have really vocal BD members that have their own thing going on, but they're going to be talking the same language that the brand is talking, and that consistent experience comes up and and they know that when I'm talking to you, it's the same thing I'm going to get when I get transferred over to an internal team member to, You know, handle my prod project or my product, that's what you want. Yeah, you don't want that dissonance to be there. And so you can leverage those personalities that you brought in and and give them the tools that you want them to use back, right? And it's, you know, that that symbiotic relationship, so yeah, and I think it goes to the consistency part that you were talking about earlier is, you know, the story that I say about brand, you when then you're in a meeting, are going to say a very similar, smarter, more design focused, but, but same story, tasks, account strategies is going to say the same story. And so it's just that kind of continuity across that. And I think again, it goes back to people. Buy from people. And I talk about this a lot in the in the daily videos, is just like, if they trust you, they're placing a bet on you, on your organization. And at the end of the day, your organization is made up mostly of people, right? You know, you've got, you've got tech, and you've got machine like, you've got the facility, but it's the people who operate it that really are the the scientific expertise, and so being able to showcase that, I think, is, is absolutely essential. Um, okay, we are. We're a couple minutes past. I'm going to put you on the spot for a final thought. The one thing that I didn't mention, but you were kind of going into it before, one of the last questions is, I think brand marketing and just brand in fact, I'm going to get rid of the word marketing, because I think that sometimes gets us in trouble. The brand is one of the few tactics and strategies, in my opinion, that this. Same time, it can help the pipeline being filled from the top of the funnel, and it can also help time to close, right? Those are the two biggest struggles that we see right now that our clients in the industry is dealing with, is the top of the funnel, getting pipeline to be filled with leads, and then the time to close is, you know, it's going from nine months now to 18 months, and a really strong brand, a really strong foundation, is going to help on both of those parts. And I think that's something that's often overlooked, because if, if you're trying to sell, you know, let's put me, for example. I'm trying to sell to one person, but the decision making team has nine people. If all nine people have to go through this on their own, the brand is going to be more of an asset than my voice will be, right? And so we just have to use that. And I think that's something that we overlook too often when it comes to the science versus brand perspective. And I don't think that there's, there's a need for that argument, in my opinion, yeah, I mean that you it comes back to that consistent element. Yeah, you can get, if the BD member can bring in a person, and then you can get them into the funnel where they are getting that same message consistent. What you're selling becomes simple and not overly complex. You can dive into that any one of us listening to this call can get on a call with a client and talk them through the X's and O's forever. If you can't, you shouldn't be selling it. That's just the way it is. But if you get them in, simplify it, give them those bites, so that they're continuing to come back, engage, allowing BD teams to come in, help be that physical person that they're talking to, developing that relationship you've taken What would have to be a team of 20, and brought it down to one or two in person, people that are fostering that relationship and that brand is serving as those other 18 people who are bringing in those pieces. And so there is a value add when you start thinking of how to build out your teams, you know, bring partnering with someone like SCORR, who can bring in a marketing team to help alleviate and let your sales people sell yeah and not do so much teaching a brand can teach yeah and and let, Let your sales people sell and get them in unison with each other. And when that's happening, magic happens. Yeah, I I love that. I want to end it like, right? I don't even want, I shouldn't even have to say anything, because that that line the brands can teach is so vital if the education of your offering is already out there. My job as a salesperson, BDS, whoever 70 times easier, right? Like, if the education is there, and by the way, sometimes that's education just on the industry, not even just specifically score. A lot of times I like to just educate on marketing. Go do it yourself. Find a free like, that's fine. But if, when you do come to me and you're ready to have that conversation, you're already halfway there, or 25% there, 75% there, it is world changing, because now that conversation is a collaboration. And so I love to say that brands, you said brands can teach. I think the brand can help you sit at the same table. And if you're sitting at the same table, you're going to win more often than not. So I love that. Yeah. Okay. Final thoughts, I make this. I make you do this every time, whoever comes on this for the SCORR LinkedIn lives, or these ones that we do randomly on Thursday afternoons, you get 30 seconds, I'm going to start the timer, and I just want your your final thoughts on on brand, or the final takeaway that that the folks that are watching this should have. Are you ready? I am ready and go. All right, so when you start thinking about how you can build out your brand, what it can do for your company, I would encourage you to start thinking about what are the stories that need told for your company? What are those hooks that when you do get in the room and you start talking about it, what? What are those things that resonate with the team your brand should be that whether it is flashy, whether it is stoic, a brand can be creative by telling those stories and bringing an experience that's consistent and wants to be engaged with, and that's creatives here to do that you went four. 14 seconds over, but you had me. You had me the entire time. The brands can do that, the stories that need to be told. That was exactly where I was going with my final thoughts is, if you think about what other people are gonna say about your company, that's what a brand can help narrate, right? And we can control that. And I always go back to most CEOs. If you're a marketing team member watching this, even if you're a CEO, you might agree. Most CEOs, most boards, most private equity care about two things, revenue and the story that's being told about your company. And with brand, you can control both of those things. And Barbara finishes this with, it's all about the stories. Is the last comment. And I could not agree more, Barbara, so on that note, Drake, thank you so much for making time today if you were able to watch it. Thank you so much. This will be, you know, on the on the platform to find if you watched you have any questions, either for me or specifically for Drake, just DM me on LinkedIn, leave a comment. I'll make sure it gets to Drake, and we'll supply an answer for you. So thank you so much, Drake. Yes, thank you. It was a lot of fun, awesome. All right, I'll talk to you soon. Bye, bye. As always, thank you for tuning in to this episode of The SCORR cast, brought to you by SCORR Marketing. We appreciate your time and hope you found this discussion insightful. Don't forget to subscribe and join us for our next episode. Until then, remember, marketing is supposed to be fun.