Joy | Navigating the World of Clinical Research With Purpose

Discover how Darious Davis, a clinical research expert at CenExel, brings innovation, joy, and leadership to the complex world of clinical research. Learn about his approach to advancing clinical trials, overcoming challenges, and driving impactful results in the life sciences industry.

Transcript

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Music. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of The SCORR cast. This is our third recording of 2025 and I am selfishly really excited about this episode, because even in the five or six minutes before we hit record, Darious is making me very, very, very jealous of his background, of of just everything that Darious Davis is, but also a little sad that we didn't get to do this over the last year, this has kind of been six, seven months upcoming. We were originally going to play in a golf tournament and record this podcast live, and then I think we both cancel on each other three or four times over the last, you know, six months or so. And I know that there's going to be a lot that that people get out of this, and we're going to kind of just cover the whole spectrum. We're going to talk industry. We're going to talk your background, talk community, within the clinical research space, within the site space. But Darious, before I start running and asking you different questions, I would love to to have you introduce yourself to the listeners, give us a little bit about your background. You know where you've gone and where you're at today, and then we'll jump in from there. Awesome. So first, it's exciting to be on the call, and I love that we canceled on each other three or four times. That's what true friends are for, at least in our industry, the friends I've canceled on three or four times back and forth, they're some of my best friends. So something is good is brewing here within our relationship. I love it, um, with that being said, so yes, I'm Darious Davis. I've been in the industry for about five years, which is crazy, time flies, but also, some may consider, some may consider me a youngster, but that doesn't mean that I don't have much to offer to the industry and the things that we do each and every day. I think we all do. We all have something to offer with that being said, I started in nursing. So I was in nursing, doing my thing, and then I've never heard of clinical research in my life. You cannot tell me, you know, I just thought they produced these medical devices and drugs and all of these. And they just, you know, sent them to the drug store, and people went and picked them up, and they got sick or they were prescribed whatever. And then, right before COVID hit, I was like, I'm going to nurse practitioner school. I'm going to prescribe drugs the rest of my life. Lo and behold, Nicole Osborne, former owner of Meridian and Andrew Kimball, scooped me up and said, you're actually built for clinical research. And I was like, Oh, I don't know about this, but I'll give it a stab. And it was funny, because I went from wanting to do direct patient care in nursing or as a nurse practitioner, over to they saw my niche in BD because they were like, you can talk to a brick wall, which I can, but I like to put the two hand in hand. And so off to the reins I went. I joined Meridian as a BD manager, and it was great. I got to meet many people in the industry, learn various things. Learn about how the drugs are made in the Phase 123, and four. But most importantly, one of the things that really stood out to me in the industry were the protocols. They were so interesting to me that I felt like it was giving me the the what I was missing in nursing when I left, I was like, Oh, I can read this protocol. I know these terms, I know these things. I know the mechanism of action and things of that nature. And so I was like, okay, I can stick with it. So I stuck with it. So when I joined meridian, they were 21 sites, and then they scaled very much larger than that, before merging with velocity clinical research, which it is now. Right after that, I went over to a few other organizations to learn a different side of the industry, Datacubed health. So I learned the eCOA, ePRO, the digital side, which is kind of cool, and seeing how that plays into clinical trials. And then Alkaline Clinical Research, which is a single site down in Naples, Florida. And most recently, I'm here at CenExcel, which feels like I'm back at home with Meridian, because it's a multi specialty site network. All of our centers of excellence are and so I'm really proud to be here. I love what I do. I'm still in BD. Have not changed. Every now and then I like a little clean ups to razzle dazzle make me feel that nursing niche that I miss sometimes. But other than that, it's good. And so here I am in clinical research. I don't plan on leaving. I only plan on going up from here. And it's people like you, Alec, that keep me going in the industry. So that's always. Good, oh, well, I there's so much there that I have to to dissect, starting with the the niche within business development, because you can talk to a brick wall. And I distinctly remember one of the first, like core memories that I have in sixth grade is my teacher telling me that she would put me by the door alone, but she knows I would talk to the doorknob, and so she might as well just leave me in the middle of the room, because it would cause too much chaos for me to be talking to a doorknob. And so I think that's why Darious you and I might be kindred spirits here as we kick off this podcast. So I love that, but I do have to ask you mentioned something in terms of five years, and then you mentioned, you know, maybe there's some that consider you a youngster. You have a lot to offer. And then at the end, you tie in that you're not leaving clinical research. You only want to go up from here, and one of the things that I've learned as part of these 3040, plus episodes of The SCORR cast is very similar to myself, where six years ago, if you would tell me that I'm having a conversation with a BD manager, BD director in clinical research, I would have said, You're You're out of your mind, and now I don't picture myself ever leaving. And so I'm just curious, kind of, what's your what? What's the the nugget, right? What's that spice that keeps you so passionate in this space where you can say, I love this, I feel like I'm at home, and I know that this is what I want to be a part of for for the rest of my my career. What's that piece that really keeps you honed in and inside the industry? This is hilarious because I've actually had this conversation with Lauren Stockwell a few times. Shout out, Lauren, yeah. Always if I don't, if I, if I don't mention Lauren Stockwell on a podcast recording, we're in trouble. So she's going to love this. Oh, but we've actually had this conversation a few times, because I think at one point she we're both young, and so it can be viewed sometimes as do they really know what they're doing and what they're talking about? But one of the things, there's a lot, but one thing that I really want to hone in are the patients. And I know that a lot of people say that, but I don't find it that I'm in clinical research by surprise, coming from a former medical background, niche or whatever, and so it kind of fills the void, because nursing would have been patient facing, but now I'm affecting various populations by drugs that Go to market so or the drugs we're working on and putting through these clinical trials at our sites, or wherever you academic institutions, wherever that may be, you may, for instance, there's a drug right now that was approved for one thing, but they're trying to approve it for something else that's totally different. And never would have thought in my mind that it could affect that. And then that starts bringing in my undergrad background, which is public health and how we're affecting the whole population, not just one by one, but like the disease, state, community, health, all those things. My brain's just flattering right now. And so the patients are the main thing, just seeing the joy on especially people in underserved populations. I come from an underserved population. I partially grew up with my my grandmother, and so I got to see things that they didn't have access to, drugs they didn't have access to, even if, oh, you got prescribed this, oh, the truck doesn't come for another two months because you're in a rural population, and so and so. Won't bring a truck in from for CVS or whatever. Not that they had a CVS at the time, but just saying that as a as a niche and so, yeah, the patience. Yeah, it there. There was a word that you said there, Darious, and you lit up when you said it. And it was the word joy. And I'm not like, I'm a very, I'm a very emotions on my sleeves, kind of individual. And get, you know, a lot of Goosebumps throughout some of these recordings. And when you said joy, you just kind of lit up as you were talking about the impact and the the the patient as the the end user. This is why anybody in this space, you know, it's one of the things that keeps me going. When we get to see the clients that we work with that SCORR, the stories that they get to tell from their patients. It's surreal to be a part of that. And one of the questions that comes up a lot is, How do you stay focused in such a chaotic industry, there's always new regulations. Things are changing. A lot of times you can lose sight of that patient and and, and, you know, when I asked this question, Lauren Stockwell was one of those individuals that was like refining the joy and and appreciation and gratitude for all of this. So now I'm just curious, as we talk about this, and we're starting a new year here in January, as we're recording this will come out in February, what are some of those things that you do to maintain that joy, to make sure that you don't lose sight of why you started this, even going back to undergrad with public health and then nursing, and then now the impact that you can create today. How do you make sure that stays front and center for you and your own individual kind of aspect here? Yeah, so one thing I want to say is there's always something happening. There's always something new, like you said, regulations and things. So it's interesting to kind of learn that and see how it applies to your role, or how it applies to your organization, or even just our industry in general. For instance, I know I have a friend's mom right now that has diabetes, but she's been taking a GLP one, and her a 1c is almost back where it needs to be, which is insane. So that's one. I just got Joy right there. Did you see I'm laughing about that, and that's the joy, and it's just those types of things. And so sometimes I have to, I do have to remind myself of that. And I live here in Dallas, so we're pretty Dallas, Texas, so we're pretty medical heavy. I live right here by UT Southwestern Med Center, which is one of the Top in the US. And so a lot of times for me, another way, I find that Joey is talking to my friends who are physicians, my neighbors, who are nurses and things like that, and understanding or them saying, Hey, we gave a patient miss today. And I'm like, wait a minute, five years ago, that's the first drug I saw, and now you're giving it to somebody. Like, what do you mean? Like, that's so cool to me that this went all the way through the sites, or whoever was working on it, got FDA approved, sold to physicians. Physicians started selling prescribing it. They're getting it filled at the pharmacy. Boom, it's now in the hospitals, taking care of people, saving lives. Um, so when you talk about joy, that right there is just like, so that kind of keeps me grounded. And then, on the flip side, I'm not mentioning people maybe once or twice, um, but it's cool to see what other people bring to the table. I meet people all the time that I'm like, oh my goodness, they're so different than me, but together, we work like a powerhouse, and we just did this and sent it back to a sponsor, or even if I'm working with a sponsor, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I just worked with that sponsor, and we're like, killing it right now. Like, this is awesome, and, you know, and those are the times too, that I get to know the people, um, there's a and if he listens to this, he'll know, so there's, there's a top sponsor, and a guy that works at a pharmaceutical company at the the sponsor. And every time him and I see each other, we talk business. Obviously, sites need sponsors. Sponsors need sites. CROs, you know, ePRO, Eco, all the things tie in, but the first thing we always talk about is fried chicken. I am from the south, and I love a piece of fried chicken with some hot sauce, so we talk about that all the time. So I remember how my relationships were built as well, which kind of grounds me and gives me joy. And sometimes I talk to those people, and we may not even talk about business, but down the road. Hey, Dee, today I actually like have something that I need to talk to you about. Can you run this trial for us? Do you have the patient population in those in those types of things? So that's another way that I keep myself grounded and back into why I'm here, what I'm doing the impact I'm making. And even on the tough days, I had a low day yesterday, and I was talking to a colleague, I was like, today's a low day. I'm telling you like I am down in the dumps because i Something had came across my desk where I was like, Okay, what do I do? And so I start, you know, trying to figure everything out. And I text her, actually, right before this call, and I said, today's a high day. This just happened. So those types of things, gosh, Darious, i That answer is, is fantastic. And the the word that sticks out to me throughout that entire thing, though, is, is humans, right? This is all h to h, and it's the stories that we tell, it's the stories that we hear. And you know, your friend's mom who has diabetes, I think of you know, we've had on on the podcast, and one of SCORR partners is the Oliver patch project, and being able to work with them and hear their stories, Project outrun, see the impact that's being made, but then also inside, like you said, on the business level, site sponsors, CROs, Eco, ePRO, like all of the platforms that exist in order to make this happen, it's just human beings running it. And I think a lot of times we can lose sight of that, and it becomes really transactional. You. In nature, I need this from you. You need this from me. But when we can create those human relationships, when we can have that connection, it's going to allow us, even if that connection is over fried chicken. And now also, I want to know all about like, I'm, I'm, I'm completely in on, on just you calling me up, and we only talk about fried chicken for a little while. And now, now I'm a little hungry. I was thinking I might get a Reuben tonight, but fried chicken might be, might be the play, but that's so important, just to have the collaboration. Because in the sequence that you talked about five years ago, the drug was at the site. It gets it's approved, it moves on. It goes through. Think about how many different parties are involved in order for that to happen, and one hiccup, one miscommunication, one misstep, and that drugs not accessible to to the market. And so I don't really have a question here. I'm just you kind of fired me up with that whole process. And it's been this theme around collaboration, that not one company, not one technology, is going to solve the problems that we're facing. It's going to take a group effort and the entire industry moving in the right direction, right? Literally, 100% okay, I'm just like, that's kind of my soapbox these last couple of months is, you know how? Yeah, I mean, think about it. It's such a competitive market, and there's always new entrance into it, especially from, like, the side of AI, and you talked a little bit about the technology and the digital side, but there are new tools, you know, every every day, every month, and yet we're all trying to achieve the same thing. And so that's I'll put a semicolon and stop the transgression here, because I could go on for another hour and a half. And I do want to pivot a little bit to the network, and then I want to ask you a couple of questions about your work and send excel as a whole. But you've mentioned a couple of people, whether it's lauren or, you know, the individual that you you converse with, for you within the network, coming as a quote, unquote outsider, if you will, from nursing how have you seen the the industry kind of open its arms to you. You go to trade shows. I know we actually, I think we saw each other first at scope, either last year or the year before, was kind of our first initial touch point. How is the network? How is the community for you? And if somebody was hesitant about reaching out on LinkedIn and making that first connection, what advice would you give to somebody that's maybe joining the industry from a different part of the B to B, or just general landscape here. That's hilarious. And I say this because you said you start talking, and I immediately thought of this person, and I thought about her earlier. I won't mention her name, but she is a powerhouse in the industry. And I thought about her earlier, and you start talking, and I was like, Oh my gosh, I didn't know I would be talking about her today. And I say this in terms of one you said, what advice do you have? You have nothing to lose. Do it literally, that's what I've learned. One of my first trade shows I went to had reached out and hadn't got a response, and then found that same person at a conference, and I was like, Oh, this is my child. Like, did not respond to my emails, but like, I'm going up to her, we're going to talk. So lo and behold, she gave me the time of day right then in the in the conference hall, she was like, Okay, let's step outside and chat. So he got outside, and she looks at me and goes, What do you want from me? And I was like, Whoa, but in that moment, I thought on my toes, I talked about what I knew, I remained Darious, and that night, her and I were the top dancers on the dance floor at the after party at the conference, and she's now one of my best friends in the industry. Oh my god, and so. And it wasn't, it wasn't anything. And she wouldn't mind me saying, This is hilarious if she listens to it, um, but it wasn't anything against me and it wasn't anything against her. She was just meeting to meeting, to this, to that. And so she's like, What do you want? Like, what do you need? Yeah, and so I had to do, do what I do best, and that's being a business development person. I know everyone says they can be BD, and Alec, I'm sure you know this, everyone says they can be BD, and you're always BD wherever you go, your face or representative of your company. But everyone cannot be BD. Everyone doesn't have that twinkle of an eye. It can be taught to an extent, but everyone, and I hate saying this, but I'm being honest, because I've heard this a few times, but at the end of the day, I don't, I don't see just little me that didn't know I would be talking to brick wall. Was the rest of my life, when I got bored, I would have ran away, or I would have been like, Did she really just say that? And it wasn't anything like back how she said it. But so, yeah, my advice to people is just, do it? Go for it. You miss a 100% of the shots you don't take isn't that? I knew it was COVID. And so in thinking about other people, I've had the same encounter with other people, like I've talked, I've reached out to people for a year and hadn't got a response, and then a year later, they're like, Hey, let's chat, like I'm responding to your email. It's chat, and we chat, and they were a top enroller in one of their studies that are deploying and so but even on the flip side of it, it's not always sponsor CRO that I'm trying to make connections with. I genuinely love talking to people and getting to know them and who they are and why they're in clinical research. And the famous saying we all fell into clinical research, which I believe is so true. Yeah, I know it's here by chance that I was that yeah, or just knew about it from the that's what they wanted to do from the get go. But I enjoy understanding, you know, someone just started a company in AI or something else. Okay, how will your company contribute to to our industry? How can I help you? Because it's not always about, hey, I need. I need. How can I give? Give, give. And a former company I was at did a dinner, and some industry people were involved in this where it was, I forget the name of it was like a give back dinner or something, or whatever. And people went inside at this table, at each conference, a group of people, and they talk about how their conference was growing, but they'd also say, oh, Alec, you should know Darious, over at sin Excel. Y'all should be friends, things like that. So I love it, and just the genuine nature for me, comes back to being curious. If you if you're trying to grow your network, to try to grow your business development pipeline, people are going to sniff that out. But if you're genuinely curious about what an individual is doing, and their interest and their passion and their business, you're gonna create a really good connection. And I think about, you know, frankly, and I'm being a little selfish here talking about this, but the podcast here at SCORR started as me rambling on LinkedIn for a year, and a half, and it was two years ago at scope in 2023 when Lauren actually came up at scope and said, I see your face on LinkedIn all the time, and I just wanted to say hi, and we had a short conversation. And then so on down the line, you just continue to have those short combos, and then you end up having, you know now my phone, I remember when I canceled on you. We were talking about this earlier. I was telling you, hey, my wife and I are expecting a child and like that was such an exciting thing. But I was telling you and Amanda over at ripple and Lauren stock, oh my God. Don't get me started on Amanda. I love Amanda. Oh my gosh, we well, we can again. This is where Amanda's probably gonna No, she's definitely gonna listen to it. Because I'm gonna say 24 minute mark, we hype up Amanda, but you don't realize how accessible the people are when you go into it with an open mind and curiosity, and you're not going in trying to sell a thing, you're just going in to try to create that connection. And like you said, you also have nothing to lose, right? Like, I cannot tell you how many people I have emailed or messaged on LinkedIn, and they've never responded. And then a year later, I meet him at a trade show, and they're like, oh, Alec, I see you on LinkedIn. I know that you've emailed me before. I'm just too busy. It's almost never about you, and it's almost always about their calendar, the work they're doing, the how busy they are, and they're just not ready to meet you yet. And they will be. There's some point, right? Boom, boom, that's just it. End of the end the episode, and that, boom, it's over right there. Okay, I do want to ask you just a couple of questions about senec cell. You know, one of the one of the requests that I've gotten from a couple of these episodes is I get too excited, and I ask about you, and, you know, and people love that, but they also want to know your role in the industry and what your company does, and kind of what you do. So obviously, a lot of people listening to this are directly in the clinical research space. That's pretty much our main audience here, if you just want to give us a little bit about Sen Excel and then a little bit about the work that you do, dare. Is that would be great, however much you want to share, kind of put you on the spot. I didn't say I was going to ask you this question. I guaranteed one bad podcast question, and I think this might be the one. But this is your this is your elevator pitch time. This is where you get to shine a little bit. This is good. So I am a Senior Director of Business Development here at sin Excel. Shout out the BD team. So we have, we have multiple levels in BD, senior directors, VPS on which our VPS are great directors, wherever you are, business intelligence, feasibility, wherever it is. It makes our dream team work. And I know everyone has a dream team, but there's something special about this team here at senec cell so and saying that Sen Excel stands for centers of excellence, and I want people to know that, and I say that very proudly. So we have 17 sites. We do a lot of early phase work and multiple disease states. Some of the primary stuff is going to be just gym, med, neurology, CNS is really, really big for us. We can do some dermatology down in one of our Florida sites. Obesity trials are really big for us. But what happened here was there were a number of sites that ended up coming together some years, several years ago, on creating the centers of excellence. And I say this because everyone can't be a center of excellence. You have to make this an Excel standard. And I I say that, and I don't want anyone to take that the wrong way, because all sites are great. We all have different patient populations from our varying backgrounds. But there's a, I don't want to say, a guideline you have to meet. That's not the word I'm trying to say. Let me say it correctly. There's a, there's a standard to which, to which our sites are upheld, as well as our teams, not at the site, the ones that are working remote or in other adjacent offices, and we uphold that standard, and we take care of each other, but most importantly, we take care of our patients and so and another thing I want to point out there about those centers of excellence, which is always something that comes up, we're one of those sites. Are going to tell you straight up, if we can't run your trial, we're not going to take it. We're going to say, hey, Alec, I can't run your trial, but I know that this side over here can fostering that relationship, keeping it good. We we will tell you what we will enroll, and we will meet that enrollment goal. We have, our in house marketing, our in house patient recruitment in house. BD, of course, all the things you need. And one thing I want to point out about our phase ones. We have a few of those. And we have multiple, multiple beds, so we're not shy to first in human early phase trials. We're actually always looking for, excuse me, always looking for those. And that's been interesting for me to learn, being that I primarily focused, focused on late phase in my prior life, which I still do, but I'm seeing it more first hand, because we didn't do a lot of early phase first in human in my prior life as well. So that's been cool to see, especially when they're enrolling just a few patients here, just a few there, several here, and based off of the indication, or the or the areas, or them saying, Hey, we don't need any more sites here, but we need like, 20 extra sites in this state, yeah, which is so cool. But sometimes people are like, Okay, you need extra sites. Why can't you take us? Then it's, it's about understanding, look, I'm off on a tangent. I'm not even talking about things so anymore, um, but it's about understanding that, okay, we understand they need more sites, but they may need a different patient population. They may need more this, more that. So there's that. In a nutshell. I love it. And you know, one of the things that you mentioned there, in terms of like, the transparency and the partnership and the value, hey, we're going to be we're going to be honest with you. We're going to help whether it's us or or it is somebody else, I think is so important. And you said that, you said the Centers for Excellence with pride, and I could see that beaming through you there. I do have a question, just in terms of, we're recording this in January, Darious, it's you're going to be listening to this in February. I know that you and I are gonna hopefully meet at scope, and then we've got 1010, months right of 2025 another unfair podcast question, but there's a lot of conversation about 2025 and what's to hold for us? What are you looking forward to this year? This could be, it could be both. It could be personal and and professional. Here it could be sites. It could be Sen, Excel, all of the above. But what are you looking forward to here in the calendar year of 2025, professionally, getting back on the conference train. I had fell off just a little bit. Sorry. Fell off just a little bit, but I'm really excited to see everyone and get the group chats going and everything again where we're like, Okay, I'll see you in three weeks. Yeah, literally, you'll see them in three weeks, but also continuing to foster those relationships, but to continue to understand and grow in my role professionally, and the things that I do and the goals that I have for myself, as well as the goals that have been tasked to me, which I will meet. Um, but personally, I qualified for the Chicago Marathon, so I am running Chicago marathon October 12. Holy cow. So I'll be doing that with Team MDA, mustard, dishefe Association, team hit momentum. So I'll be running in honor of my late bonus brother, Sam Osborne, which is the golf tournament. Um, so we expect to see you in September this year. I'll send you those dates. Oh, I'm playing this year. There's no, there's no, there's no backing out this time around the 12 week ultrasound was a pretty good reason to back out, but that won't be the case this time, and so I will be ready to lace them up with you in September. I love it. So those are just really quick Chicago marathon. That's a big deal. Um, you know, I'm going to ride my peloton after this for about four and a half miles for 20 minutes, and I'm going to be cooked so I'm that's really awesome. Um, congratulations on that. I feel like I'm breaking news here on this podcast, like what a moment I wanted. That's just going to be the video that I share, because that's, that's really cool. I love it. Yeah, I'm excited. So, oh gosh, okay, um, I felt like I had one, one last question, um, and we talked a little 2025 we talked sent Excel. You mentioned trade show circuit. Where can we expect to see on the circuit? Do you have kind of a road map for your year? Are you still building that as we go? I'm still building that as we go. Okay, actually, I was just just texting Jess Thompson about Magi, but you'll definitely see me at scope. SCR, one or two of those, depending on the timing of everything CNS, probably we'll see. We'll just, we'll just let it flow. Follow me on LinkedIn, like, like everyone does, yeah, I'll be posting and keeping everyone updated. But most importantly, if I'm seeing you at scope and other conferences, I like to keep up with people. So I'll be like, hey, I'll be at this moment. So you Let's hang out, or let's grab a bite to eat. So yeah, I love it. Well, I recorded Jess episode last Friday, which was fantastic, and that will be airing, I think it'll be airing this week right now, as we're recording this. So you'll have to check that one out, Jess and just fantastic, but I will certainly see at SCR, and likely the CNS summit in the the fall. For SCR, for sure. Darious, you get you get the microphone. Final 30 seconds, final minute of this before we thank everybody for listening. What's on your mind? What do you want to leave people with? Oh, Andy Andrews once said, Every move you make and every action you take matters not just for you, but for everyone around you and for all time. So everything you do, even when you feel like it isn't going the right way or you're not making an impact, someone out there is feeling something, and if they don't even someone behind you is going to feel that from years down the road. So just to leave that mic drop, folks, that's going to be the snippet I might be posting that today on LinkedIn to promote the episode. That is a clean Mic drop. I don't know if you had that pre saved, but that was very impressive, as was this entire conversation, Darious and you in general, I just want to say thank you again for taking your time to share your story, talk a little bit about yourself, and send Excel your passions. I know that anybody that's listening to this is going to get a lot out of it, and genuinely just for taking 4550 minutes out of your day to spend it with just a guy up in Omaha, Nebraska, so it means a lot, and I'm looking forward to to seeing you on the trade show circuit this year. Oh for sure, and hoping to be in Omaha soon to see some family. So we'll get together. I don't want to go to Ramza, but we can go to like Oscars and get some tar buff wings or something. So we'll talk that sounds that sounds fantastic. There is a place right by my house called Tracks lounge that has the best wings in Omaha. I've been there. Okay, so maybe we'll, we'll coordinate something. We'll, we'll set something up. I love it. For everybody that is listening, as always, if you have questions for Darious, reach out to him. He would love that. Um. Um, reach out to him on LinkedIn. I'm sure you'll see him at a show and bump into him, tell him that you listen to his episode on the SCORR cast, and he would be excited about that. So would I, selfishly, as you continue to listen, we love when we hear that our listeners and our guests are able to connect, either online or in person. And as always, thank you for listening to the show. You can rate review us five stars. I am not good at the podcast. Host, sign off with telling people to rate and review. So Darious, I'm going to put you on the spot, and I want you to tell everybody to listen to this podcast and rate and review the SCORR cast five stars because of your episode. Are you ready? He goes. Champions come and go, but legends are always there. I'm one of them. So if you know what's right in the world, you'll write this 10 out of 10, you'll like you'll subscribe, you'll share it to all of your friends, and if not, I'll hunt you down. But if I did, if you do, you may see me soon, and I may buy you a coffee. Talk to you soon, guys, that's it. As always, thank you for tuning in to this episode of The SCORR cast. Brought to you by SCORR Marketing. We appreciate your time and hope you found this discussion insightful. Don't forget to subscribe and join us for our next episode. Until then, remember, marketing is supposed to be fun.