Puzzles | How Marketing Strategy is Really Just One Giant Puzzle

Join Gokce Wood on The SCORRcast as she unpacks how marketing strategy is like solving one giant puzzle. Discover how to piece together data, creativity, and strategy to build successful campaigns. Learn how aligning the right elements can drive brand growth, improve engagement, and create a clear path to marketing success. Tune in for insights into mastering the art of strategic problem-solving in marketing.

Transcript

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Music. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of The SCORR cast. I'm recording this in my basement. It's February 21 it's really cold outside in Omaha and in North Carolina, where Gokce is at, and I'll introduce Gokce in a second. But I'm so excited about this episode, because I think Gokce, you bring such a unique perspective of being in house, having agency experience, being at SCORR for the last three plus years now, and working with a handful of our clients, from the largest of clients to the smallest of clients to everywhere in between. And I've always appreciated just how you think about marketing and just the perspectives that you bring to the table. So I'm really excited to get into that as a topic. And you know, I mentioned this before we even started recording. But I'm also excited because you were, you were a part of the worst travel experience of my entire life, when we were in Milan for a cphi worldwide back in October, and I got kidney stones and was just trying to survive in advance in an Italian hospital, and then being on the show floor, and so I've never talked about that on the podcast once, but I might ask to ask you a question of like, what the team was thinking as I all of a sudden make a phone call and say, Hey, I'm in a hospital as we as we go forward, but that's not what we're here to talk about. We're here to talk about your marketing expertise. We're here to talk about your understanding of the industry and the problems that we solve. So before we get into that, Bucha, would you mind just doing a quick introduction for those who are listening and for those who maybe don't know you yet? Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Gucci wood, as you said, Alec, been at SCORR for it will be three years in about two weeks. So been at school for three years as a senior account strategist. Now, I did join as an account strategist before, as you mentioned, you know, I've been in the life sciences industry my entire career. Since I graduated, I studied neuroscience because, honestly, I thought that would sound smart, so I studied neuroscience, and then I realized I really enjoyed it. I've always been interested in human health, and always wanted to go into medicine, actually, at first, and it just didn't happen for me. So I went into something that really interested me, really enjoyed it, and then didn't really want to go into the research space. So we looked around and saw what I liked. I was a problem solver. I liked puzzles growing up. I really liked generally, doing any kind of puzzle, problem solving game and things like that at home. So I kind of looked at what I can, combine that kind of science background with that passion that I liked, and kind of dug a little bit deeper, and, you know, looked into sales and marketing. And really, I started my role, actually, in medical device sales when I when I graduated, because I wanted to get into something straight away and really interesting. Got to experience a lot of interesting surgeries, because I saw surgical devices. And then, you know, from there, I really liked the sales side of things, but I started getting interest. Interested in the way that the marketing team were really marketing the products. So that really made me look into the marketing side a bit more. And then I actually moved over into an agency where I started as a project manager, essentially in the UK. They call them account execs there in the UK, and, you know, worked on really project management, but I worked with CROs, and I also worked in the patient recruitment portion of the agency too. So kind of working with CROs and their patient recruitment strategy, but also in their corporate branding too. So worked with CROs and worked with some of the large pharma and biotech in terms of bringing some of their recruitment messaging forward. And then from there, I actually ended up going client side and worked for a CRO for a while in their marketing team, because I thought, you know, get some insight there still young, and we're moving countries. So it kind of worked out. So I worked for then Inc research, which now is known as cineos, worked in their marketing team, did everything from, you know, European marketing, Asian Pacific marketing, and their events as well. So I got to delve my toes in event planning, too. And then we moved to Australia, and spent the last spent four years in Australia, and I decided to go back a little bit into that sales role while I worked for Johnson, and Johnson in the orthopedic department, so kind of back into that med device. But it was, it was a longer sell, so more kind of relationship building and really working and understanding the product, and then working closely with the marketing team too, to develop some of the sales support materials too. So then I was like. Actually, no, I need to go back and go back to an agency, and here I am. I love it. I love the background and the context. And also, you just gave me like, four different tangents that I'm so excited to go down, you know, ranging from the sales and marketing relationship and the importance there, and more and more marketers having sales experience, more and more sales individuals having marketing experience, them working together and being on the same page. I know we're going to talk about the puzzle pieces as well, but I do want to ask a quick question just about your role at SCORR. I think one of the reasons that I was excited to have you on the podcast and your role is that not everyone understands how important strategy is to what a marketing agency should be bringing to the table. And so a lot of times in the sales process, when I talk about an account strategist or a senior account strategist, and we're really bringing that strategy, there's a little bit of confusion, for lack of better terms of what does that role actually do? Is it a project manager? Is it an account manager? Is it an account executive. What does all that look like? And so at SCOR, what is your day to day look like? What type of clients do you work with? And you know, what do you really? What do you love about the position right now here at SCOR? Yeah, so I guess there's a few questions in there. Alex, I told you bad podcast questions. That's not my listen. I might be the host, but I didn't say I was a good one. So no, I love it. So the type of clients I work with, I'll start with that. So I've worked with CROs, job discovery companies, cdmos. So you know, really broad spectrum, med tech, med device. So as a strategist, I guess the in a nutshell, what I do is ensure that everything that we are proposing to deliver our client solutions are really going to help them achieve their goals. So you know, when we think about clients coming in and sharing an issue or a problem or they're like, We want to get more leads and we want to raise more brand awareness. Whatever tactic that we propose should really help drive those results. But I guess Alec is a little bit more complicated than that, because there's a little bit of this, like we talked about the puzzle piece earlier. But for me, the fun is actually identifying what those challenges are truly and not just taking you know, what can I say always as a face value? It's more about like starting with the discovery, not having assumptions. So for me, it's really that detective work that I love the most to really like identify what could be the best strategy moving forward for this particular client? Yeah, I love that. I think it's such an important piece of the puzzle to go back to that, that concept here, you know, in the BD process, and even just last, what, a couple weeks now, ago, now, we were in Orlando for the scope Summit, and you hear these problems that are happening, and it's, Hey, we don't have a full pipeline. Hey, we don't have leads. Nobody knows who we are. And those are problems, but a lot of times they're a symptom of a different problem. And we actually have, you know, a brand recognition problem, or whatever it might be. And I think going down that layer deeper, a lot of times, I don't think happens in marketing, because in a lot of times in marketing, it's just, let's check the box, let's do the thing that we're supposed to do, let's run the campaign, let's hit the button, let's check the box, and then we report on impressions and be part of this. And that's where marketing, I think, gets a bad rap in the industry as a whole, because we're not trying to, like you said, have the marketing tactics and strategies that actually align at the business objective level. And so can you just, can you just walk through, you know, maybe a little bit more in terms of how you think about the puzzle, and how you think about all the different pieces, the sales team, the brand recognition. Do people know who you are? What GEOS are we going into? Competitors? What are you looking at when, for lack of better terms, Alec brings a client in and says, Okay, Roche, this is who we're working with, and here are the problems that they solve. What are the pieces or the steps that you take as part of that process to really identify the actual problems that are causing those symptoms that we're talking about? Yeah, I think there's, there's, like, several layers to this. I think for me, the first thing when I go into, you know, working with a new client is to really start with that discovery as the objective. So a lot of clients do come in with their preconceived idea of what they need. Like, they're like, We need this. We need this. And actually a lot of the time having those in depth Discovery sessions, having stakeholder interviews, doing some of the research, really help uncover gaps that they may not see. So I think the biggest thing that I love about the SCORR core process that we do is we do a combination of that. A quantitative and qualitative assessment at the beginning, so that we help identify gaps, you know, with the qualitative where we do all of the competitive research, the market states and trends. That really is key in bringing insight, you know, some of that insight, but also when you look at, you know, voice of customer surveys, doing those internal assessments, that really helps, kind of bridge that gap that you don't often get with just listening to what they say they need so, and a lot of it's another, you know, it's another layer to it. It's just really identifying the root cause of what they're saying versus the symptom of, hey, we need more leads. We need more brand awareness, and sometimes it could be something like positioning, targeting, their messaging isn't right, or it doesn't align with their value prop. So it's several layers to that. So I see this really as like when we go into a new client, it's start from the beginning, try and go with, okay, this is what they're saying they need. But is there something that I can ask that can dig deeper and figure out actually there's something that they haven't identified. And that's the most exciting thing for me, because we talk about it as a puzzle, but often the puzzle pieces aren't there, so you gotta find the puzzle pieces before you put them together. Yeah. And not only a lot of times are the puzzle pieces not there, they've never been thought of inside that organization. And I think the more and more that we talk about it, especially with our client base, with our target audience, we know that revenue is the problem right like right now, it's a really complicated time to be in the life sciences. It's a really complicated time to be selling into pharma or into biotech, and so we have to understand that the business problems are are really big right now, and the marketing problems are right underneath that. And again, I think that separation between marketing and business objectives is a lot of times where, where we go wrong. And so as you're going through all of this, how important is it for marketing, business development, sales and then the business side to be, you know, for lack of better terms, aligned on what we're trying to do and working in tandem moving forward, rather than marketing running that way, sales running that way. And, you know, the business objectives and the business obstacles are going in another direction. Yeah, I mean, I think for me, it's absolutely critical for our clients, have marketing and commercial alignment. At the end of the day, marketing is a, you know, revenue generating function. We need to be able to support the commercial team, be aligned sometimes, you know, we uncover that there are no go to market strategies, and we need to ensure that we're working together with those clients to support the build out of that, and then how marketing will support getting those goals. So I think it is absolutely critical, so in any organization that marketing and commercial are aligned, so that what we are developing is in line with those with those goals, and we're also reporting back on those and looking and seeing what we're doing. Does that really drive revenue, and is it actually making any difference? But again, it's not just around data that we get. It's around some of those qualitative discussions, listening to their sales team, hearing what questions they're getting, and helping them, you know, with by providing them sales support materials that maybe can help answer those questions. So it's this ongoing process that I think we need to ensure that our clients are doing, and also ensuring that, as you know, marketing strategists and team that we are trying to get ourselves into, woven with their commercial team too, and just being curious about them, being, you know, interested in their business, asking the questions. And if you're not curious about your client's business, then I don't think you ever going to get a good strategy anyway and be aligned? Yeah, I love the I love to be curious and ask the question so much. But I also think one of the things that you alluded to there is that it's a process. This is not a set at one time and forget it, right? Like, it's great to have annual planning. It's great to have, you know, a big four hour strategy session in December, but if come March, we're not communicating with the commercial team, and we don't know, hey, those leads that we've brought in, they're actually beneficial, they are doing X, Y and Z, then it's not going to matter. And so I think building the program to have the the commercial efforts be aligned with the marketing efforts is, is such a important phase here, and an understanding that it's not easy like this is, this is not an easy thing. But if you build it and you follow it, whether that's a monthly meeting, it's a bi weekly meeting, I've talked to a couple of clients lately where they're now meeting weekly and it's just 20 minutes. Hey, we've been doing this. Are you hearing anything new, actually? Yeah, we had a ton of questions last week about this objection. Could we put a, you know, an FAQ on the website? Can we do a one pager to identify that that objection earlier on in the marketing process? And I think that's where you know that voice of customer comes into play. Two. And we talked a little bit about this on a BD call that you and I were both on at this time a couple of weeks ago. Now, when this airs that, the question was like, how do you actually get to that nugget that the audience cares about? And there's no other way to do it than to actually go out and talk to your current customers and your potential customers, you know, lost opportunities, just the target market in general, because if you don't hear from them, you're not going to know exactly what they want. And I think a lot of times that's such a it's an overlooked part of this that it's good market research in general, but it's also the beginning of a content marketing plan, hear from them, learn from them, and then create all of those pieces. And I know I'm rambling now and that there's not really a question there, Gokce, but is there anything that you want to add to that voice of customer and how relevant that can be? I mean, I would say, more often than not, you hear something completely different from the voice of customer surveys. I think that perception of where you know their gaps are, you know, you speak to your client and they they, you know, potentially raise some gaps or challenges that they face, or the perceptions they think they have in the market, when, in actual fact, it's not that at all, and it could be something completely different. And what I think it really does is allows like insight, and it doesn't it's not biased. Whereas, when you have a lot of the internal assessments, you do have a love of the bias, right? You do have some of that. This is what we are strengthen. Well, we don't really have any weaknesses. We heard this, but people are going to be more honest as well. When you have those client satisfaction surveys, right? You're going to have more honesty there, especially when a third party is conducting it. And I think it really helps, as you said, it's a bit of a content plan. It helps develop some of the messaging and some of the content strategy that you're doing, but I think the biggest thing is it really uncovers something that they don't often you don't, often hear an internal assessment, which, again, is critical, because that shows you know where their strategy, where their growth lies, but it's a combination that makes that difference. Yeah, and I think one of the things that I have been so surprised by that process is people being willing to admit like, this is where I get my content. This is who I'm going to talk to. This is like, there's just so much there. And if I hear I said this on a meeting the other day, but I'm starting to get offended on behalf of CEOs and CEOs and Chief Scientific officers that we don't treat them like human beings. And, oh, a CEO or a CTO is not on LinkedIn, or a CTO doesn't, you know, watch football on Sundays or something like that, because we treat them as if they're not going to consume marketing at all. And one of the things that I've loved about the voice of customer process is, hey, where are you consuming information? It's like, oh, I read this article, I read this journal, I read this it's like they they're always consuming content. And it's such a, again, such an easy way to reach out and engage with them in that manner. And I think it also goes a long way for your target audience to show that, hey, we care. We want to be where you're at. We want to have the conversations with you at your level too. Yeah. And I think it's one of those things that you can't have a long standing relationship with a client without doing continuous voice of customer surveys. Yeah, it can't just be like one at the beginning of the relationship, but then never again, because you want to know it has a perception changed. Are you having different experiences? So that maybe you can say, well, this is working. Let's focus more on this. So actually, we're still hearing that there is a piece on delivery that we need to focus on. So let's get that message out there. So there's really, you know, some those. They're just really invaluable. If you do those often, and it doesn't have to be every six months, could be once a year. Yeah, and it could just be a touch base. It could just be a touch base. Now we just got so off track on voice of customer, and I know our market intelligence team is going to be so excited with how much we just talked about that market research, and it's absolutely important, but I do want to change, you know, shift gears a little bit here. The industry is complicated. I'm going to put it that way. It's a complex beast in terms of regulations, competition the industry is, you're at one company for a couple of years, and you jump to another company the technology chain. It's just a complicated sales process. It's a complicated beast in general, especially in that early drug discovery phase too. I mean, the regulations and the changes and to be keeping up with that is, yeah, super challenging. It's difficult. And then you add on, without diving into the current state of the world, but you add on the current administration, and you add on the fears and concerns about clinical trials and the just regular, I would call it, what we hear is that conservative nature of marketing in the industry and wanting to maybe sometimes play it safe. And now what we kind of refer to as that sea of sameness, in terms of everybody has the same messaging. How do we go through and I promised a bad podcast question. I felt like I already asked one, and so I. I don't know if I can ask a second one, but I think it's important because, like, how do we actually find the marketing strategy and convince someone to that, hey, marketing is really important in 2025 with how complex this is, and how do we show them what they truly need, versus like, hey, we can just be really conservative and do what the rest of the industry is doing. I don't know. Does that make sense? I'm rambling now, and I'm not sure if this is the right answer to this, but when I love this about marketing strategies, it's for me, it's not just about what the company's goals are. Okay, marketing strategies should be built around their customer. So how they how they perceive information? What do they care about? What keeps them up at night? It's not just about, okay, our goal is to reach x revenue in this year. Our goal is to launch X it's not just about how do we get that message out? It's how do we answer the problems for their clients? So I think that's the first way of looking at it could be a little bit backwards, right? We ask them about we ask clients about the goals and what they're looking to achieve. But that doesn't really matter if you're not getting the message to your customers and they're not resonating with it. So you're right. Like a lot of you know, what we hear is, you know, the similar type of messaging, similar type of value proposition. It's a combination of understanding their target audience, number one, and then really spending the time to identify what makes your client different. And that's where it takes time. It takes questions, it takes being curious. It takes speaking to key stakeholders in the company. And it could just be a word that they use. It could be the way they you know, their culture is built and it and those are the things that you can really I know people think culture internally may not actually drive marketing strategy, but it actually could build a personality for that company that you can bring out in your messaging, which can make your clients feel something so I'm not sure if that answers your question. It's so did. It's like it was a bad question and you had a great answer to a bad question, which is why I was so excited to have you on and you hit on that core pain point of the target audience. And we talk all the time that that SCORR, or any other agency or any other company, for lack of a better terms, could go into a corner and create something that looks cool and it looks really nice and it looks modern. But if you aren't identifying what position you have in the lives of your target audience, and what position you have in the market, it's not going to matter. And I think, especially, you know, our specialty, a lot of times, is in that emerging company. Maybe they've reached 10 million or 30 million or 50 million, and then they're trying to reach 30 to 5050, to 100 and so on down the line, you're having to call you're you're having to convince someone to change, to use your product or services. And I think one of the questions that I've kind of fallen in love with is, who are they going to go with if you don't exist, and if you, if you can't answer that question, we haven't done the right market research, and we don't know, but a lot of times that question puts it in perspective of where you're at in the market. Are they going to go to a really big company? Are they going to go to a, you know, an individual contributor? Are they going to go back to using Microsoft Excel, or are they going to be fine not using it? And that alone is like, if we can answer that question really confidently. We can own the position that we have and then own the value proposition then that we bring to the table, and that's what we're able to show and I'm I, I'm a broken record of show versus tell. Like, you can't just tell people that you have great people, you can't tell people that you have excellent technology. You have to show them over and over again. I think you do that by exactly what you just referred to, which is starting with those pain points of the of the customers and the target audience too. Yeah. And I think, I think as you kind of hit the nail on the head, you know, looking at those like emerging clients that we work with a lot of the time, there is this apprehension that we can't do something out of the box. We can't be different. But when was the last time you opened an email from a store that you bought from that wasn't like you forgot something, or, you know, you have to feel something. You have to feel positive, excited and get something for you to action on. We are so overwhelmed with emails flooded through all the ads that we get. You go onto any website and it's just overloaded, but the ones that you look at are making you feel something, whether it's from the visual perspective, whether it's from a word that's in there, but it has to evoke some form of feeling for you to really action on it. And I think that being in the life sciences. Industry, it causes us to be a little safer because it's more of a conservative industry in general, like people are more nervous about bringing forward some of the bolder ideas, but there's no there's no harm in trying something and seeing what that response could be, because more often than not, you're going to get people intrigued, especially when you're trying to raise brand awareness. So I think it's a combination of getting clients excited about trying something different, but also finding the right language that really is appropriate for that client, because you don't want to say something about them when internally, that's actually not how they live and breathe their organization. You can't just say, Hey, we are the most collaborative team where and they don't have team meetings, and then ends up coming out down the line. So you've just got to find what that is, and dig deep and find it and then position it in a very unique and emotive way. Yeah, people, people buy from people that they know, like and trust, and that is, like, it's just at the core of every buying decision that is made as a human being. Yeah. And for some reason we pretend in B to B, it's like, no, that's not true. And it's like, what are you talking about if you don't trust the person that that you're, you're, you're buying from this industry. A lot of these, these purchases are make or break deals. If you're signing a three year seven figure deal, you best believe that I'm going to know like and trust that individual before I sign that contract. And so I think a lot of times we lose that story element, and we just go to like, trying to be really like, I don't want to say descriptive, but we're just going to explain, hey, here's the technology, here's what it does, here's here's x, and it's like, really just bland. And we're, we're moving the, like you said, the emotive aspect of it, or the storytelling aspect of this piece of the puzzle, and that's what matters, the story of how you fit in, how you solve the problems, and then the impact that can be made. Am I going to run a clinical trial more effectively? Is the patient's life going to be easier? Is the drug going to be more effective? Like that's what we have to find. And I think it's interesting. In my four years at SCORR, the first two years, this was not a conversation that was an easy one. People were it was 2022, 2023, and out of COVID, lot of confusion, still in this weird bubble, the biotech like all the things. But it was like, No, we we don't care about the story. We don't care about the message. We want digital and we want leads right now. We want leads right now. We want leads right now. And now we've seen this shift, especially in the last three to four months, where more and more people are saying we just don't feel like our story is accurate in the market. We don't feel like our our story is like effectively telling people what we can do and what value we bring to the table, which is obviously great for you and me, because it's really fun to work on those projects, and your marketing is more successful. So I do have a question about that, because I'd love to have somebody besides me say it on this podcast in general. But just curious on your thoughts the opportunity cost, or the sub cost, however you want to word it, if we spend this is a bad example, but this how I usually say it. You can spend a million dollars, and if your message is wrong and you don't know what role you play, that million dollars is going to be so ineffective, I would rather spend $500,000 on a marketing program and have the core message, the design, the consistency and the results in place, and the results in terms of, like, what we can do and the impact that we can make on behalf of our clients and their clients. Can you just talk about, Am I off my rocker here? Like, how much more effective can we be when we have the right brand, we have the right story, and we know what role we play in the target audience's life. I mean, tenfold, right? So you know, we know that standing out isn't just about those features and benefits. It's about telling that story, getting people engaged. And it doesn't come from just putting out benefits. It comes from understanding what your competitors say, being different, right? Finding that unique space that you can own, that is authentic to you, that you can like, tell the story, but it's different, and it stands out from your competitors. And absolutely, if you get the right message, the right value proposition out there, you can spend less than that, it can make more of an impact than a million dollars spent on just getting benefits and features out there, because at the end of the day, you've still got to have someone look at that and say, Okay, that is solving my problem today. That is going to make my life easier, that's going to make me hit my targets quicker, or that is intriguing. I want to speak to the people that I'll. Putting this out there, and at the end of the day, that's what our job is, right? We want to get our clients meetings. We want to have those conversations, because what we do is all it's relationships, and what they're doing is relationships. All we're doing is facilitating the relationship to happen. Yeah, I don't know if that answered your question either. I did. I didn't expect we just went down like I told you that we had, you know, an outline of topics, and then then I was just going to take us in all different directions, and we've already done that. But I think, like, like, what you what you just said there at the end, in terms of stopping someone and, oh, this is intriguing, or this is going to solve my problem, or this, like, and then you mentioned it earlier, in terms of the collaboration, we're the most collaborative team. And then it turns out they're not. You have to, you have to be this brand day in and day out. Like, how many, I cannot tell you how many times we have somebody come in and say, We want to be like, this really bold brand, and we want to, we want to be so outside of the box. And then you get into the day to day, and we learn through the assessment phase, it's like, that's not who you are. That's you aren't that you are. You got great customer service, and you've got this awesome team, and you've got great people. Let's highlight that, and then other times it's the other way around. They want to say, we've got great customer service, we got this great team, and it's actually that their technology is so far advanced and it's so much better than everyone else's. But we're not telling anybody that. And so it's, it's so interesting that when you set this, it kind of sets you up for success or failure for the whole year. And I cannot tell you how many times we hear somebody say, like, well, we ran paid search and it didn't work. It's like, Well, what was the what were we running? What was the? Do we know what content it was like? Oh, it's just this. You know, it's just a random piece of content. We content we had. It's like, well, the content wasn't good, the the message wasn't good. We weren't we weren't identifying with anything and and I think that's why marketing, I think that's why marketing gets a bad rap. And I've said it a lot this week, and I'm probably going to say it more next week, is that if we rebranded marketing to just like, revenue support, marketing's budgets would be a lot bigger, because we don't view marketing and the investment mindset of what it actually should be in 2025 I mean, I think that's why I love what we do here at school, like as account strategists. Like our job, as you said, is to be the integral part of our clients. We need to continuously find out what they're doing, continuously asking the questions. And I think not being afraid to ask the question is like the biggest thing for us that it's something that you know, especially if it's a part of the industry that I haven't had a huge experience in before, it's something that you're open to learn. Ask the questions, because that's how you're going to develop the best strategies. And I think it's challenging, it's fun, but, yeah, I think you'll never get the right strategy out there if you're not finding out, digging and as you said, like finding out their culture, finding out how they do something, and then asking more questions, as you said, it can lead to something like this groundbreaking technology that they had, that you didn't you know, that you weren't saying anything about, and also making sure that you're spending the time auditing, like, as you said, like, if they've been doing paid search and you don't know what they've been running, ask the questions, find out, see what they've been doing, and don't be afraid to Ask those questions, because sometimes you can uncover something that is pivotal in the in the strategy. Yeah, you you hit on the topic. That is the last line of questioning that I have for you today. And I say this all the time on LinkedIn, maybe like once a month, I'll do a random post that says marketing should be fun. And you know, if you stay curious and you stay up to date, marketing is fun, and if you let yourself play a little bit outside of the box, or you just create a bigger box from the get go, it can and should be fun. So I know the puzzle pieces are fun, but what's the most fun thing you've done at SCORR? What's a project, what's a campaign, what's a thing, what's what's something, aside from being on this podcast with me, what is the most fun that you've had in a setting at SCORR right now or prior? I guess you know if you ran a really kick ass campaign before, I'd love to hear that too. I think for me, the greatest satisfaction or fun, I guess, I have is seeing a strategy that we develop come to life and actually provide a difference to our clients. So recent example, we worked with a cdmo who were merged with another organization, we had to do a whole new rebrand. Developer, obviously full year tactical plan, make sure everything was, you know, aligned with their new brand, but also work on multiple different business units that they had and super challenging, really interesting. Got to work with. Multiple stakeholders in the organization. And after a year, you know, of their branding out in, you know, in the wild, we, you know, looked at some of their results, and we were really heavy on working together with them to ensure that we were tracking everything, working through their full pipeline, looking at through their sales funnel, and, you know, reporting back on, you know, one revenue and looked at the work that marketing did, we were able to help them in, you know, we were basically 8% of their their revenue was due to marketing tactics that we had done. So super cool. I know it takes a long time to see those results sometimes, but that, for me, is like the most fun going, Okay, what we did really did work for them. And I would say, looking back and seeing the success is where I have the most fun. But obviously have fun during it too. But I would say, like, that's the biggest thing, being competitive and then getting the result that you were looking for. I love that you right away went to a revenue number. And that makes me and everybody listening to this very happy. And so along those lines, last question that I have for you is just a final takeaway. You know, I'm curious what you might tell someone who is a CCO or a marketing head or a CEO inside the industry and they're hesitant about marketing. What? What would you tell them? You know, I might, you might even just tell me that exact same story, again, about 8% of the revenue, if you invest and you do it right over time. But what's kind of your what would be a takeaway that you would leave with somebody who is in that position, and they're debating making the investment into marketing and really being able to ramp this up in in 2025, and beyond, I would say, I would not talk about revenue. I actually would say, you know, it's in our best interest to make you look good and get the results that you need when, when we do our job effectively, and, you know, bring those leads or raise brand awareness, their results are shown. So for me, it's, you know, we become part of your team. We are invested in your business as much as you are, and we get excited when you succeed, because we succeed. Just Mic drop. Just hands are in the air. Gokce. I I knew that this would be a fan fantastic episode, and you said you had to live up to those expectations, and you absolutely did, as you always do. So thank you very much for for taking time out of your Friday. And I know, as people are listening to this, Gokce has started to post a little bit more on LinkedIn. I've seen you be more engaged on that platform and sharing some things. So reach out to her if you have any questions as you listen to this, I know that she would love to talk all things marketing, and is a nerd in that way, in a very similar way to to how I am. And so if you do listen this and you want to connect with her, make sure you shoot her a message. And then, as you are listening, you probably just made it through, and you're thinking, what an episode. Make sure you leave a review on Spotify. Now you can leave a five star review, and you can even leave comments in there, where I think we're over 45 star reviews, which is fantastic. And this, this podcast, would not be possible without individuals like Gokce, and then the individuals within the industry that are listening to it. I can't believe that. I think you're, I think you're episode number 42 Gokce. And so that has been six and a half months, seven months worth of recordings of individuals all across the industry. And we've got another 30 planned for this year. So our goal is to hit 50, 6070, easily in 2025, so thank you so much coach, and thank you for everybody who listened. And I hope you have a great day. Music, as always. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The SCORR cast, brought to you by SCORR marketing. We appreciate your time and hope you found this discussion insightful. Don't forget to subscribe and join us for our next episode. Until then, remember, marketing is supposed to be fun.