Perspective | How Optimism, Curiosity & Discomfort Fuel Growth

How do optimism, curiosity, and stepping outside your comfort zone drive success? Joshua Webber joins The SCORRCAST to share insights on embracing challenges, adapting to change, and unlocking new opportunities. Learn how shifting your mindset can fuel growth, inspire innovation, and build resilience in both life and business. Tune in for strategies that turn discomfort into a catalyst for progress.

Transcript

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Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of The SCORR cast. This is actually the second podcast that I have recorded today. It is Tuesday, March 4, and I cannot believe we're already at the end of q1 by the time that you're listening to this live on the the SCORR cast, you know, platforms, on Spotify and on YouTube, on SCORR marketing's website. It's the beginning of April, which means we are in full swing here in q2 hopefully the weather is nice where you are listening to this episode right now, in Omaha, we are dealing with a snow storm and a thunderstorm. And so Josh, I'm going to introduce you in a second, buddy. You got to bear with me here, because I've been ranting about this all day. It's 58 degrees right now, a thunderstorm is happening, and by eight o'clock tonight, there will be a blizzard in the same exact location. And so that is what I'm dealing with right now, which is why I'm in my basement and why I'm also very excited to be able to distract myself, Josh with with interviewing you for a little bit here, and this has been a long time coming. We've both canceled on each other, which I think is a sign of a good episode and a reason to be excited. And I've kind of wanted to have you on, I think maybe, since the end of our first season in 2024 because of your LinkedIn presence. And so I'm going to talk a little bit about that. And I've seen that you have continued to be really active in LinkedIn and active within the community. And so I'm excited to dive into all of that as well. But before I do all of that, people are tired of hearing me talk already. It's three minutes into the episode, and I haven't shut up. So Josh, do you mind just kind of giving an introduction to yourself, your background, your roles, what you've done, and maybe you know what you're passionate about within this space, and then we'll be off and running from here. Yeah, yeah, that sounds good. Well, thank you so much for having me. And you know, like you said, I feel like we've kind of crossed paths at a certain point. And, you know, excited to be here and excited we could finally do it after, you know, three cancelations. But yeah, so I mean, I've been in the clinical research industry for, I guess, roughly five, six years now, I started in the beginning of COVID, so april 2020, basically, I started the Elligo health research and just was doing, you know, on the phone patient recruitment, calling hundreds of people a day, you know, asking if they would like to be stuck with a COVID vaccine. A lot of tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist, you know, all that, that good stuff of everybody remembers how crazy that time was, and then just kind of worked my way, you know, up the ladder there did, like, medical records collection after that, and then got into this was, like, right when decentralized clinical trials were becoming a big thing, and So Elligo was building out that whole department, essentially. So I was like employee number, like four in that department, which was pretty cool to be kind of tapped, to kind of build out that all those processes and get to kind of scale that department, and then found my way into project management after that, and I was lucky enough that I had a good, great mentor named Kevin Forsyth, who was a senior project manager, and just kind of, you know, took me under his wing and taught me the ropes of project management within the industry. And then I just kind of stuck with that from there and from Elligo, went to, you know, more like biospecimen delivery was a project manager at a phase one clinical site for quotient sciences in Miami. So that was pretty wild to see the Phase One stuff, at least, was pretty cool. And now I'm a project manager for a company called Massive Bio, which is an oncology hematology patient recruitment company. So again, kind of done the breadth of everything and everything in between, and kind of stuck with project management. But yeah, that's a very abbreviated history. I love it, and I'm excited to kind of poke and jump around in there. And I think starting with you said staying, you know, across the industry, but kind of within Project Management. What is it within the industry, from graduating moving into Elligo, moving through Quotient, Massive. What is it about this industry that attracts you so much, whether you're on the patient recruitment side or you're on, you know, in the project management side, with where you're at with Massive, what about the industry is really what drives you? Yeah, absolutely. So I, I feel like, and this is, you know, a reason. I feel like everybody kind of gets into the industry at some point or one way or another. I was a pre med student, and I wanted to be a physician assistant, so I have a pre med degree per se, like, you know, biomedical science, essentially. And I was going to go to PA school, and then I. Moved out to Austin, Texas, like right after college, and I met a guy at a car meet, and he I was like, what do you do for a living? And he was like, I do business development for this company called Elligo. And I then he applied and got hired in four days. So if you know Lisa Marie O'Brien, she was the first person that ever hired me at Elligo, and I was first hired. So we have a kindred history there. But yeah, so I mean it, I never left because, or I could probably go back to school and, you know, do the whole pa thing. But I've also always loved business and always loved medicine. My mom is a critical care nurse practitioner in the ICU, and then my dad worked for all scripts. So doing like EHR platforms from the moment that company was founded for like 33 years. So growing up, I kind of got both, like the tech side of medicine and then also like the patient side of medicine. So clinical research, I found, kind of married the two of those things perfectly together, like my two passions for wanting to help people and like understanding the science of things, and then also like the scalability and business So project management within that industry or within this industry, kind of married the two of those things together and merge my two passions, essentially when I just never left. So I that is a fun story. I You hop over to Austin, Texas, you're at a car show, and then next thing you know, Lisa Marie O'Brien is, is bringing you into the fold. That is, I love it. And I think you kind of said the reason you haven't left is, is the the industry itself, and there's different avenues. One of the things that we talk about all the time on this podcast is, you don't know a lot of the jobs even exist, and then all of a sudden you're in this space, and you're like, I don't want to leave. I might change the subset of the sector, but I want to stay within this space and stay motivated. And I love kind of the business tie that you mentioned is you get to kind of see the both impact. You get to see the impact to the patient, but you're also getting to flex that kind of business side of things and those muscles as as well. Which is, which is really exciting. I am, I am curious. You mentioned at the beginning of COVID, is when you started. And I joked, I always joke, and I joked before this that I have to ask a bad podcast question, and this is the bad podcast question. Josh for the episode, and I reserve the right to use another one, but this is the one right now, which is 2020, to 2025, how have you personally seen this shift? And what was that first year, two years like, and then you mentioned the decentralized clinical trials and building that team. What was that like in the first year, year and a half of the COVID 19 pandemic, and then where we're at today? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's a good question. It's a good podcast question. Don't ever let anybody tell you. It's not. We'll see. Well, I appreciate that. I love the I love the that means I'm excited for your answer. Josh, alright, yeah, so, so, yeah. I mean, it was probably the best time to join the industry. But just because of all that inner, energized industry, kind of like everybody was working on vaccines. Everybody was like, full ahead, full to try to figure out what was going on with COVID. And I probably couldn't have joined at a better time. Honestly, if I joined like the year before the, you know, five years after, who knows what would have happened. But definitely like when I joined, it was, it was an intense moment, because everybody This was like either right before the moderna vaccine came out, or, like, just on the cusp of that being, like, you know, FDA approved and released to, you know, the wider public. So, you know, that was a very like cresting, especially since you're just trying to, like, brand new to the industry, trying to learn everything that you possibly can, absorbing all of that information about, you know, what are clinical trials? What is, you know, this, that and the other and so going from like that, those first two years of intense like just work and learning and just trying to pick up things to kind of a calming down, like the a little bit, or at least getting not calming down so much, but just getting out of the like intensity of vaccines and focusing on other therapeutic areas the last, like, two years, two, three years after that, it's definitely been a roller coaster that I've noticed throughout the industry, and I think that because of that, maybe that like, semi chaos of like, the whole ups and downs of projects. And, you know, this study is canceled. This study is, you know, going to start in five months from now, and it was delayed, like 10 months, is also exciting. And I think that that kind of, just, you never know what the next day is going to bring is also pretty exciting. Just in, like, a startup culture, kind of, you know, you. Day is never the same. And I think that's probably true of almost any role in the industry, no matter whether you sit at the very top or you sit at the very bottom and you're just trying to figure stuff out, or you're working directly with patients, you know, like every every day is absolutely different. So in the wider picture, you know, those, those first, like, two years of me being in the industry was just really absorbing as much knowledge as I can, throwing myself into everything, and then just trying to, you know, kind of work my way up the the ladder, so to or the corporate ladder, so to speak, yeah, um, you know, and just I've enjoyed every facet of what I've done. And, you know, once I once I feel like I've mastered, or at least gotten to know that role to a certain extent, then I'm excited to go on and move to the next thing. And that's kind of what I like about the industry also, is that, you know, like I said, No two days are different, and you can kind of, there's so much flexibility within the industry that it's just great. So it I love the roller coaster, just like image, especially in 2020 and like you said, it's not that it's slowed down, it's it's that the microscope that was on the vaccine creation, and then you add in the political and like everybody's eyes were directly on this, like seven month time frame, that is Usually a much longer time frame. It just put everything to feel. And it was, it was literally life or death. But in that moment as a project manager, I mean, even at SCORR, I started at SCORR in 2021, and so we were kind of in that, like that post pre COVID, second run, right where, like, people thought it was over, and people were like, well maybe. And then we had another resurgence. And it was like, one wrong email, one wrong misstep, was enough for people to ask 1000 questions. And so that was like, I can only imagine how you felt. Like learning drinking from the fire hose times, you know, 25 and so I'm sure there are still emergencies today, and there are still fires and things like that, but maybe the temperature just feels a little bit different because you were, you were trained in in such a chaotic experience. And I, like you said, I wonder if you started in 2018 and then all of a sudden, COVID happened, the pace of play would have been way different. And so it's intriguing that, that that's kind of the perspective. I think it's a fresh look on on how that impacted a lot of us going forward. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I, like, I said, like, I think that had I started earlier or whatever, but I even now, like, you know, six years later, five years later, whatever from, from then, now that I'm, I don't want to say more seasoned, but at the same time, more I have a wider breath of experiences to oppon me or, you know, like aid in my ability to solve problems. You know, I think that because I was just thrown into that, such like chaotic environment and forced to learn at a rapid rate. I think that almost and especially being right out of college, right, like, no prior, no real prior, yeah, whole corporate work experience and just being kind of thrown into the the fire there was probably the best way to learn. I mean, some some people either, like, love it, and they, you know, take off and do really well, or you're like, This is too much for me. And I, you know, want to go do something else. So just kind of knew that I would always probably enjoy it and want to stick with it. You know, there was probably a moment at one point where I was like, Yeah, you know, I don't know, just because of how chaotic it was, I'm like, every day, every day, you know, should I stick it out? Should I probably try to go look for something a little bit more stable? But at the same time, especially during that time, there was no stability, right? Like, nobody was safe, nobody was, you know, there was nothing you could do. So, yeah, oh, I love it. That is, I again. I think there are going to be so many, like, business documentaries that come from that time frame, and they're obviously, you know, podcast stories. But I think there's just so much, so many interesting learnings, especially for people that were graduating and going right into the workforce and starting businesses, and so we're not going to go down that soapbox, because I you know, that's a whole other angle, and maybe that's another day. But I do want to ask about one of the things that I've noticed on in this industry over the last two years is the community that once you get to know somebody, they want to introduce you to the next person. And a lot of times on this podcast, we talk about how, you know, no one company is going to solve these problems. It's going to take a huge village effort in order for us to be successful. And although there are competitors and there's new companies coming out every day, for the most part, I have seen a really positive community and introductions and referrals and network creation. Have you what's your experience with with just the community? As a whole, I know there are people who are hesitant about trying to put that foot out there and and get involved and be at a trade show and make friends within this space. Kind of what are your thoughts just around the the community that that supports this, this industry? Yeah, absolutely. And I'm glad you brought that up, because over the last year, I was probably well before, before, probably a year ago, I was definitely one of those people that kind of just lurked in the shadows on LinkedIn and, like, you know, just kind of like, poked around like, people, stuff, you know, never really, like, truly engage with people. Yeah, and I had just kind of like, tried to follow along with people. I didn't really message, like, direct message people on LinkedIn, or get to know them in that way. And then, you know, like April of last year, I decided to start my own company, which was clinical research Learning Network, which was founded on the basis of expanding clinical research education for everybody. So and because of that, and because I was trying to network and meet more people and get that kind of promoted and in front of as many people as I could, I immediately found that same community that you're talking about, those same people that everybody runs into. And while this industry is relatively large on like a market cap, you know, the community itself and the people that are in it is very small, like you end up running into the same people over and over and over and over again. No matter where you go, no matter what company you're at, you're always going to see those same people, especially on LinkedIn, is even more, you know, niche and narrow down of a group of people. And I feel like I over over the last year, probably met all of those people that are the most active on LinkedIn, you know, became great friends with them over, you know, both at, like, SCR and scope, and we finally actually got to meet all in person. Yeah. I mean, they've been my, like, internet friends that I got to meet in person. Yeah. So, like, and even you I feel like, you know, I probably never would have met you if I hadn't, like, started posting. And, you know, got to, you know, at least the courage to start posting stuff and, you know, really just honing in on, like, the education factor, because also what I'm, you know, passionate about. And the whole reason I founded the company to begin with was that I realized that everybody that I met stumbled upon the industry in one way or another, just like I did, and I wanted to make that as accessible as possible. So like that, you know, my company, clinical research Learning Network, really breaks down all of those barriers. From a cost perspective, from a language perspective, from you know, a global perspective, because it's online, it's virtual, it's accessible. There are people in 47 different countries that have signed up to, you know, take these educational courses, so and again, just the people that we meet are the kindest, sweetest, you know, will most supportive people you've ever met in your life. And I get that everybody is in the industry for the same reason. You know, at the end of the day, we're all just trying to help patients for one extent or another, no matter what your job title actually is, or what you're trying to do within the industry. So that's been like, the best thing ever. I think, just as a part of this industry in particular, is those caliber of people, those kind of people, they were all just here for the same reason. We're all put on earth to do the same thing. And it's, it's been fantastic. So, yeah, I that answer like I could, I could feel the energy coming from you. Josh on that answer, and it gives me the same feelings. I remember the first trade show that I went to. Well, not the first trade show, maybe the third or fourth trade show, but it was the first one where I was in a new role within business development at SCORR. And what it was scope in 2023 and I remember being like, very nervous. The outlook after JP Morgan wasn't that positive for 2023 and I'm at the show with our president, and I had been posting on LinkedIn, and very little success. Maybe, you know, a couple of likes here and there, I was just starting to, like, crack into just even having somebody within the industry watch it, and I am standing at a table, and I tell this story all the time, she's going to kill me, but Lauren Stockwell, like, runs over and is like, oh my gosh, Alec. Like, I've seen you on LinkedIn. We need to be friends. And the the emotion that I got from that one interaction, then carried the next seven or eight. And then, you know, I know you're you're connected with, and I've seen you share with like Jess Thompson, who was just on the podcast. And so it just, it all of a sudden, creates this environment where not only are the people in it for the right reasons and they're supportive, but it also feels like they actually want to lift up the thoughts that you have. And so when you talk about education, especially with individuals who are maybe outsiders, for lack of better terms, or younger individuals under the I'm going to say under 40, but I'm just going to say under in terms of maybe they're under in. Just experience in the industry that have new ideas and different ways to do things. And have you tried that? I have felt like although there might be pushback at the very top level, sometimes at that medium middle level, there's a lot of optimism around how can we do things better? How can we do things more effectively? How can this make a better impact? And I think that's such a huge aspect of the network and the community in general, too. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, like you said, those that like medium level of, if you're looking at a pyramid of, you know, the industry as a whole, like sponsor sitting on top, and then like, you know, working your way down, yeah, that middle level of like in I just call them like, LinkedIn, LinkedIn influencers, or, you know, whatever you want to call them, but they're, like, the most active people that are, you know, all connected within and they know this person knows like, 100 different people. This person knows 100 different people. I just met Jess Thompson for the first time at scope this year, and we all that's awesome run into each other, like, here, there, everywhere on LinkedIn, but like, never actually got to actually talk to her, and we're like, Finally, actually working together. And it's, like, amazing. And she's an amazing person. And then Lauren, who I know is, like, one of the most well known people ever have met her, and I'm actually meeting her tomorrow for the first time. Oh, that's awesome. Like, she's like, we were like, you know, DMing back and forth or whatever. And she's like, Okay, well, there's like, an 85% chance that I probably know you and we were, like, going back and forth. And she's like, Okay, well, yeah, we there's a 20% chance that I, like, haven't run into you at all. And I'm like, Yeah, we definitely known of each other for a very long time. Just never actually got to talk to each other. So like, whoever you like, meet introduces you to that person, like you said, the like, the daisy chain of, you know, introducing people as great networking works. And like you said, I don't know if you've met Elizabeth Tabor, but she, oh, yes, I met her at scope this past year. Yeah, she would be a great person to have on this podcast. If you don't already, I do not. I'm going to have to set that up, yeah, because her entire mission for her clinical research referral club is lift as you climb, right? So, like, that's the entire premise of the company, of, like, networking as a whole within the industry, and trying to just pull people up with you as you, you know, advance in your career, and you meet more people, you know, introduce more to the other people, and so on and so on. So, I mean, she's, I'm like, I think, like, the only person that's an official partner of hers, but at the same time, like, we've become super fast friends, and, you know, getting doing some great work together with both of our companies. And so, you know, we're just trying to make the world a better place together. And she's got tons of great ideas and big ideas of how to, like, disrupt the industry. And he's another one of those, like, really go getters, who's just, you know, doing great things. So it's, I mean, you'll find a lot of those people, and a lot of those, like linked influencers that I keep referencing, all have their own companies. They're all trying to do something in some way, in the niche, so to speak, but at the same time, just trying to disrupt a tiny little piece of of whatever it is they're trying to do. And what with a great cause, you know, for with a great passion, with a great cause, just to kind of disrupt it in some small way. So, man, I love all of that. And I also love just the word disrupt at the end, you know, I think that is at the end of the day what a lot of these entities and individuals are trying to do because there has to be a disruption in some way, shape or form. And I talk all the time about the conference that we go to each year in the fall for D farm. And you know, it's the disrupt idle, you know, you talk about all of these things, but it's the actual like, the people behind that are the ones that are going to cause that disruption. And a lot of times you have to be willing to disrupt your internal teams and workflows and communications and be a little bit of an outsider in that space. And so I love that. I love the just the word, the LinkedIn influencers, and just all of that is great. I am curious, would you have thought that you'd be this, you know, you're on the podcast on a Tuesday night at 630 Eastern Time, five years ago, when you just all of a sudden, you know, get started at Elligo. Would you have thought, hey, I could see my personal brand and my personal education being helpful. Like, what? Where are you at mentally in terms of that five year journey, and is this something that you would have foreseen yourself taking on, you know, five years ago? Yeah, yeah, that's a great question so on, like, five years ago, no, I definitely don't think I would have had the courage to, you know, step out and, like, feel comfortable enough or confident enough and like, my own knowledge and my own abilities to kind of like, Oh, I'm like, oh, you know, I don't know enough. I'm not prepared enough. Like, nobody really wants to hear what I have to say, almost like, not imposter syndrome, because that's kind of, but at the same time, like, you know, I'm a nobody, like nobody really, why would they care? Why would they care? Yeah, so, why would anybody care what I have to say? I'm just, you know, a word. Or at a company, right? Like, I don't know anything. I'm not building anything at the moment, you know, like, nobody really cares. So, I mean, throughout even my childhood, like, I've always been obsessed with, like Silicon Valley and like entrepreneurs and like tech, you know, disruption and, like, we go back to that word disrupt, but you know, so I've always wanted to, or knew that I wanted to start a company or start and build something like, I didn't care what it was, I didn't know what it was that I wanted to do. But I, you know, like, a year ago, finally decided that I'm like, Okay, there's a big enough need for what I'm about to create. Or, you know, there's enough of an of an audience at least, that would want to have access to this, and I'm just going to go for it. I'm just going to try it and see what happens. And I think that, like, courage, if you could tell your like, you know, old self, like, why didn't you do this five years ago? Why didn't you, you know, you this is where you could have been in five years if you had just stepped out. But, I mean, I am still young, so I still, you know, have plenty of life left to live. It's not like I'm 98 and, you know, finally, you know, start a company. But at the same time, I think just building that confidence and building that support system of people who are like, yep, we fully support you. Go ahead, full heartedly, you know, go for it. And also I think that like, the backing of like, Massive Bio CEO, I pitched it to her just on a whim, and I had no idea what she was going to say. And like, yeah, we're entrepreneurs. We got to stick together, which will ring in my head for the rest of time, you know, and that's just so rare that you would find somebody who you work for to be like, yeah, yeah, fully support you. Go try it. Go do whatever you you need to do. Obviously, focus on our work first. But yeah, I'm, I'm fully supportive of you, you know, we'll, we'll give you the support that you need, and just, just see what happens. Just go for it, and we, we support you 100% so like that, I think also gave me, like, the, you know, even bigger boost of confidence to be I'm good. I'm like, I don't have to worry about, like, HR breathing down my neck, or, like, somebody, you know, noticing that I'm trying to do something and then getting fired for it, which is obviously a huge fear that people have, yeah, unless I were to go out and, you know, raise a bunch of money, which is not necessary, per se, but I think that that's, you know, a leap that people may or may not be or have the ability to do if you are wanting to disrupt and start something of your own. So that was definitely a big boost that I got that, you know, I was like, okay, yep, I'm I can actually step out on LinkedIn. I can build my personal brand. I can network with people and talk with people in my own time, and, you know, build that network personally and professionally, and still be able to, you know, have my day job and do all the things that I want to do, I think that everybody should be allowed to do. Because if you are passionate about something, why should somebody else tell you that you can't do something? Yeah, I love it. I love that. And I think, you know, I talk all the time about just the personal branding, and that's a that's a piece of the puzzle in this industry that is wide open for the taking. I think the reason we all know the LinkedIn influencers in this space is because there's 47 of them, right? And there should be 4700 and I think companies make it really difficult on individuals to let them do that and in whatever capacity, whether that is you know your situation, or me having a podcast, or somebody else just doing content like it. We make it hard in general, because we don't want them to go and, you know, say something that they shouldn't say, or, more realistically, we don't want them to go and get poached and taken to another company and all the different things. But for me, I think companies should just get over that. You got to deal with it, your people being really well known, and also other companies wanting your individuals is only good for you. If you can work it into the system, it's only good for you. And so instead, I want to focus on you mentioned that imposter syndrome, and I think it's really interesting, because at times I have even thought like I'm not doing enough to even have imposter syndrome. And so it's like, that's not where it's at. But getting that one step of confidence, that one validation, that the idea that you have is worthwhile is all it really takes to go to number two to number three to number four. And that's where I always say, if you think that there is somebody that has a problem, that you can solve it, or your ideas can speak to it, or your experience can speak to it, just post about it. Talk about it, write about it, post a picture, do a video, whatever it is. Because if one person says, Yeah, damn, I actually have had that situation, and it is really a pain in my ass, and I would like to figure out, like, there's more than one, it's right, like, there's no bad question. In theory, if you're asking that question, somebody else has that same question. And I think you're a perfect example of where you're like, Okay, I'm going to dip my toe in. I'm lurking a little bit. Now I'm going to start commenting, and now I'm going to start posting. And it's like, that's the process that you can take to start to build. This foundation for the personal brand. And you know, beyond that, it's going to help you on the business side. It's going to help you on the company side. Whatever it is that you want that personal brand is only going to carry you, you know, even further, yeah, and even when you just talk about, like, regular career, you know, and regular career skills that you should have is really just networking should be a basis of one of them, regardless of what industry you're in, regardless of what you're trying to do, is to, you know, and I know that I get it. It's incredibly hard to have that confidence, to get up the nerve to, like, talk to somebody who you think that will answer you will never read your messages, but you should at least try, you know. And that's like, I think one of the biggest skills that not a lot of people have, but can definitely be, like, learned and taught and practiced over time, because that will help you in whatever you end up doing, or whatever career you're in, or whatever goal you're trying to reach, like whatever title you're trying to reach, whatever platform you're trying to go on. I think it'll just help you tenfold down the road with because the more people you know, the more means that the more people will eventually help you if you get into a sticky situation, or will really just be there for you to support you in whatever you're trying to do, so as many people as you can meet, the better. Yeah, now we're talking marketing, Josh, and that's going to get me on a whole other, a whole other topic. I asked for 30 minutes of your time. We're at the 37 minute mark. First off, just really appreciate you taking time. Walking through your experience has been super like I just love hearing different pathways and different stories of how we get started and then where we're at. The last question I almost always ask is just what advice, not giving back to yourself five years ago, but what advice you given to somebody who is just cracking into this space? Maybe they are in a career change, or they're coming out of college. What advice would you give them about joining this industry in in 2025 Yeah, I think if you can start to get, like, like a good base knowledge, and there's tons of free resources out there. There's a lot of, you know, obviously paid courses you can take, but and then, like, on top of that, foundational knowledge just to learn, like, what is a clinical trial? What are the phases, you know, just so that you can kind of speak more knowledgeably in an interview, or if you're just trying to talk to somebody, or reach out to somebody, because there are people from many diverse backgrounds that come into this industry, and that's kind of what I like about the industry, is you industry, is you don't technically have to have any particular certificate or degree or anything like that. You can pull from any experience that you do have. So that's, I think, more unique about this industry, that other people are able to get into the industry, whether they know it or not. You know, like it's, it's that door is open for you to walk through if you're willing to do it, and if you're willing to kind of just network yourself and talk to the right people, or even just anybody within the industry, and they'll be more than willing to help you. I found whether you've known nobody or, you know, 500 people, you can at least just talk to one person, they'll be, yeah, I'll introduce you to this person. I'm super, you know, excited that you're even willing to it's a great industry, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, yeah, I would say that would be my advice. Is just to try to get into one door, if not another, no matter what your background is, whether that be like insurance, car sales, you know, whatever it may be. Yeah, the door is open and you definitely can it just takes that one, that first step. So, yeah, that would I love it. And even just in terms of the learning and jumping in, you know, I think one of the things that I have said, I will say, is the number one trait that I look for in a higher but it's the number one trait that I think I've seen in everybody that I've interviewed on this podcast, and it's this, like intense curiosity, curiosity about the industry, curiosity about the companies at play, about the patient, about the site, whatever it is, the curiosity, if you can come in and have that energy, they will find a place for you. This industry needs more of those individuals who are dedicated, but that if you can stay curious, you have an opportunity to win. And I think it's such a it's such a fun way to look at continuing education and diving into an industry like this. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, 100% so I love it. Well, Josh, I thank you again for everybody that's listening. If you're thinking, hey, I want to expand my network, I'm certain that Josh would love a LinkedIn message saying, Hey, I listened to that episode in this SCORR cast. You are the best can we please? You know, get a virtual coffee. Leave Josh a note. If you have any questions for him, feel free to reach out to Josh, or you can reach out to me if you did listen to this full episode. Thank you. This is, I said 47 earlier, but we are close to our 50th episode since June of last year. We're on pace for 52 episodes in the calendar year of 2025 which is just incredible, and I did not expect that to happen so quickly. The reason that we can do that is because you the listeners, are paying attention, and you're listening to Josh and saying, holy cow, that's. A great episode. I need to leave a five star review. So do that on Spotify, and then one more time, we can only do this, Josh, if you are willing to take your time out of your day to share your wisdom and experience with us. So thank you again, Josh. I really appreciate it. I hope you have a great night. Yep. Thank you very much, Alec, and thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate it. Oh, as always. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The SCORR cast. Brought to you by SCORR marketing. We appreciate your time and hope you found this discussion insightful. Don't forget to subscribe and join us for our next episode. Until then, remember, marketing is supposed to be fun.