Mindful Marketing | How Flow, Meditation, & Presence Elevate B2B Strategy

Can mindfulness enhance B2B marketing? Stevie Jelden joins The SCORRCAST to explore how flow, meditation, and presence can elevate strategy, creativity, and decision-making. Learn how mindfulness techniques improve focus, foster innovation, and create deeper connections with audiences. Discover practical insights for integrating mindfulness into your marketing approach to drive success.

Transcript

0:00

Music. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of The SCORR cast. We are well into the 50s now, with number of recordings that we have done since June of 2024 which is just incredible to think about, that we've basically been putting out an episode of The SCORR cast per week for the last seven or eight months now, coming up on on almost a year. And our goal in 2025 is to actually have 52 episodes, one per week for the entire year. And I am so ecstatic about that. I'm so appreciative of anybody that's listening, also appreciative of all of our guests, and I am so appreciative and excited for our guest today. Stevie Jelden is one of my favorite individuals who I get to work with at SCORR, one of the best minds that we have at the organization, and really excited about what we are going to discuss today. I think anybody listening to this, whether you are in commercials or sales, or you're in a lab, or you're running a clinical trial, or you're thinking about marketing specifically, you're going to get a lot out of this, because we are going to talk about mindfulness. We are going to talk about the intersection of mindfulness and marketing, specifically within the B to B space, but I know that Stevie is going to give us a ton of really quality tips and tricks and nuances on how to find that mindfulness and find our flow states and then being able to be productive as a human being in 2025 and if you have listened to me rant at all, either on this podcast or on LinkedIn. You know that I talk all the time about human to human connection, and that is ultimately what marketing is, and I really believe that's the case for our industry. Specifically with that being said, as you can tell, I'm excited about this. I'm ready to dig in, but before we do that, Stevie, I would love for those who don't know you that are listening to this episode, can you give us a little introduction to yourself? You know, how long have you been at SCORR this mindfulness? Where did that come from? And then we'll, we'll jump in from there. Yeah, totally. Thank you for the hype up intro. That's always lovely to follow. But Stevie Jelden, I am an account manager here at SCORR. I have been here for coming up on three years, which is crazy. Feels like three years and 75 years all at once. Prior to being at SCORR, I had was working in marketing, but in the acute hospital, like acute care, hospital setting and clinic setting. And then prior to that, I was, you know, in college and school and taking yoga classes and deciding that I loved yoga and that I loved meditation and I loved mindfulness. So I decided to become a yoga teacher while I was in college, just as a coping just as kind of adding tools to my toolbox to have some coping mechanisms for dealing with stress, for school and managing that when I got into my career and those types of things. So that's really where I came about. It. Got my yoga license in a long time ago, probably over 10 years ago. And with that came the meditation. With that came the mindfulness. In my first job, I got a little bit more in depth with the mindfulness, and was able to I was working in Omaha, and I was able to go and teach mindfulness to a lot of organizations, including, like COVID So like huge fortune, 500 companies, where there was hundreds of people listening, and then also little, tiny insurance companies in Omaha as well. So I was able to do that for about four years, and I loved it, because I got to just teach people that mindfulness isn't just meditating, and what we, I think, connect those two. It's a lot more than that, and it can be really flexible and really adaptable in the work that we do and the way we show up for work, and the way we show up as like human beings, with our families and kids and those types of things as as human beings. I love it. I love the background. It's interesting. When we started this podcast, Stevie in June, I did not think how many episodes we would have about mental health within marketing and within the life sciences specifically. And we've had the getting unstuck series with Brooke Paige Thompson over at Velocity advisory group, also a yoga instructor, also very heavy on mindfulness, and an author in that space. And then even episodes with Amanda zanier and Jess Thompson and Lauren Stockwell that that really focused on, how do we deal with being a human being in this space on a day to day basis, the breakdown of personal and professional and you mentioned that you were going through some of this just to deal with the stress of college. Yeah, and then all of a sudden, it's the COVID 19 pandemic. It is remote work. It's we're back in there's hybrid, there's all of this stuff. And so all of the things that you are talking about, we're going to have a little bit of this lens on, on the marketing side. But certainly, mindfulness is just a human skill that that everybody should be investing in. And I think one of the things that I'm excited to dig in on today is, for lack of a better way to say this, mindfulness can get a bad rap by certain individuals certain generations. And I think that, you know, when we talk about mental health on the getting unstuck series, we we a lot of times bring it back down to like at the very basis level of like, what is mental health? What is feeling safe and secure? What does that mean? Because sometimes these buzzwords, for lack of a better term, can can be looked looked upon in the end, in a bad way, in a wrong way. And so at a high level, before we even get into the marketing. Can you just kind of break down when you think about what mindfulness is, where do you go, and how would you explain it to someone who is curious and eager to learn about this process? Yeah, I love that too. You said curious, because I think curiosity is one of this, like the beginning places for mindfulness, and that's a great place to be, to show up, if you are interested about it. But I think at the very bottom, base, easy level to understand mindfulness is being present, which can you know, I think we can all think of differently, but I think when we think of dropping into the present moment, or needing to drop into the present moment, we know that our bodies are in the present moment. We know that all of our senses are in the present moment, and we can quickly go through those to recenter ourselves. So it's really just about being in the present moment. But more eloquently, I always like to quote Jon Kabat Zinn, and he is, and I think for for me being a public health major, and for us in our industry that we're in being very data driven and scientific, I wanted to bring forward Jon Kabat Zinn, just because he is a professor. He's teaches medicine, so he is a scientist as well, and he is really the like modern day mindfulness, I think, for for our the Western culture, at least. So he works at the University of Massachusetts, and he really started this Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction course, which is still a present day course that you can find all around the United States. He also opened a bunch of mindfulness medicine clinics as well. So again, he's bridging the data and the science along with the mindfulness. Because, like you said, I think sometimes generations, if you're not sure about what it is, you're like, Oh, it's this fluffy meditation thing. It's not anything that's science backed it doesn't have actual, you know, benefits and those types of things. But we know that there is data and science behind it, which is great. So John likes to describe it very simply, and this is my favorite definition of mindfulness, but he says it's an awareness that arises through paying attention on purpose in the present moment, non judgmentally, as if your life depended on it. And that's my favorite definition of mindfulness. I say it to myself frequently, especially the last part, as if your life depended on it, because that's very dramatic. And Jon Kabat Zinn points that out frequently when he's talking about it, but it is true, right? Like we to experience mindfulness in our lives as human beings. There is a you know, our life does depend on it, because it makes us better, it makes us less stressed, it makes us happier, makes us better, parents, it makes us better, spouses, better, workers, all of those things. So I, I love it. I am excited to talk a little bit more about the granular aspects in a little bit in terms of, like, what does mindfulness look like? Because I think that's where, you know, you can get people thinking, it's, it's meditation, it's yoga. For some it might just be putting our feet on the ground and, like, just having some awareness and, and how you get to that, for each individual person is, is going to be, is going to be a little bit different, right? Yeah, um, I'm, I'm, I love that you were excited about the word curiosity, because that's like, for me, my favorite when I'm hiring someone, if I'm looking for, like a top performer like this, curiosity to do things a different way, to do things a better way, is something that really I'm passionate about and I like seeing in others. And I think when it comes to this topic of mindfulness, you know, I can hear a lot of the pushback that can be said around this topic. And I'm like, Are you curious to know if there is a better way? Are you curious to know if you can handle that, that stressful situation in a more. Calm manner. You know, you have kids at home, you've got the chaos at work, like, Are you, are you feeling like everything is perfect right now? Because, if not, is there not so is there not a better pathway to be able to go into this? Yeah, and a lot of times in like meditation or in mindfulness, and in yoga, we talk about the beginner's mind, or a child's mind. And so just even just dropping into the present moment and being like, what would a six year old think about this situation? Or what would a six year old be thinking right now? It's like, most of the time, something that's presently happening in the moment around them, because they're so present beings like children are. So that is something that we we talk about a lot with beginners minds, Child's minds, curiosity and keeping that really relevant, and your interactions throughout the day. Yeah, I love that. Well, I know we're going to get into some of those, the more granular pieces, but let's take a little pivot here and talk about marketing, because I think that this is when you mentioned mindful marketing and just the intersection of mindfulness and marketing, my first thought was, okay, what is that? What does that actually mean, and what are the factors that you're looking at? How is mindfulness going to influence marketing and vice versa? How do we find that middle ground? What makes you excited? Where do you go? Just thinking about the intersection between these two, I think when I'm thinking about mindfulness and when I'm thinking about marketing, I'm also thinking about kind of what we were talking about, the curiosity, the beginner's mind. There's lots of components that make up mindfulness, gratitude, non judgment, and that's really what I kind of lean into when I'm thinking about marketing. Because in marketing, we're humans, marketing to humans. So at the end of the day, we're communicating to other human beings. And I think that sometimes that's easy to forget. So when we're looking at the data, and we're talking about the ROI that we frequently are trying to talk about and gather when we're in marketing or doing marketing and looking at, you know, the customer surveys or lost opportunities or talking to past clients. I think the biggest thing is, what is ours as marketers, our reaction or our response to these or what are the biases that we are just noticing that are happening? So when I would teach mindfulness in Omaha, many years back, one of the biggest things with mindfulness, in the way we show up to work, really was the difference between reacting to something and responding to something, and you have the present choice to do that. So if the data is bad, the ROI isn't looking good, the customer surveys, we're not hearing good things. It's easy to make a reaction about that, and, you know, get angry and start blaming and all of those things, but the mindful response would be to get curious, right? Like, how can we not assume that we know what our audience wants. How can we use this data to be curious to maybe the topic of something that we're talking about is great, but we just need to tweak the messaging a little bit. So how can we use this information respond to it? Get curious with information that we have, so that we're not responding with scarcity, which I think we see a lot in marketing, is that's just not good marketing. We don't want to scare people into buying the product or making the decision. We want them to have. We want to hear their voice, and we want them to make a decision, and we want to be supporting that, because we're humans, and so are they. Yeah, I love that you instantly went back to the human to human connection. And I also love this concept of of not assuming what someone needs or is looking for. And I think a lot of times, you know, we talk about, and I ran all the time about like, the story aspect, if you are selling to a human being, there has to be a story. And what role do you play, versus what role do they play, and how do you help solve their problems? And I think a lot of that ties in. It's not necessarily a perfect, a perfect one to one connection, but you talk about the scarcity marketing, it's not mindful marketing. Stop assuming what your audience wants. How do you to put you on the spot a little bit, I promise one podcast question, we're 15 minutes in, and I'll bring one to the table. How do you use this when we are going through, say, a big idea process or a website process or a specific tactic that maybe you really resonate with. How do you apply this thought process to actual execution and creation on this side? If that makes sense, yeah, I think also it's important to have somebody when you're going through these big things, like Big Ideas. That is just going to be the rock to ground everybody back down, because there's lots of opinions happening, there's lots of sparks happening, there's lots of creativity. And if somebody in on the team can kind of be your mindful rock to bring us back down to ensure that we're not reacting to anything, but we're responding to things and making sure that, you know, everybody is level headed during the process. I think that's like a good beginning piece of it. But I think in my role specifically that I'm taking all the research right as an account manager, I'm bringing it to the team, and I'm bringing it to the team in a way that is curious, like this is what we're hearing from our from this person's customers. It doesn't look good. We're working on a new brand. So asking those questions, having those open ended conversations about, why do we think they were engaging with this in this way. Why do you think that we lost this contract? What could that? How could that impact the going forward with a new brand? How could we, you know, this, the questions that we ask in that process of, how can we speak to the the audience in that way and address the problem that they've had in the past so that we can get in front of it and ahead of it, and just be curious to explore, you know, all of the the information and the research that we've gotten. If that makes sense, no, it doesn't. I like the that that that combination or difference, I guess, is the better way to say it, between reacting and responding. I think is interesting within marketing. I also, I think that you said something in terms of just the questions that we ask, we're going to try to dig deeper to find that problem and not just offer a solution. And then I think the third thing is not taking things at face value, right? Like in our industry, especially, we hear all the time, we've always done it that's this way. This is what we need to do. This what we need to do. We have to check this box. We have to check this box. And that's not always the case, right? And so having that wherewithal to be able to take that step back and say, Okay, why have we always done it that way? Is there a better solution? And being able to navigate those conversations in your role and in my role, very like, very essential, especially when you're looking at outsourcing marketing within the life sciences space. Yeah, I think that's definitely our role as account managers, or anyone that's in charge of a marketing team, is being the person that's going to unfortunately, sometimes have to ask the hard questions that do make people feel uncomfortable. But when we know we're doing it with the right intention and we have the research to back it, we know that we can help others put their egos away right lots of times, ego start flaring in these processes, we can try to remove the fluff and be more present in what we're trying to do. And that's I feel like the core of it. I love it, and I think I got to get a little deeper here on on the life sciences side. So we talked about just this in general, and everybody that I interview, I always have to add this asterisk that you know where this is B to B, but I think it's B to B on steroids, right? So you're it's not, it's not B to C, it's not SaaS, it's not small business. It is even, even the smaller startups have really complex sales cycles. There's five or six different buyers within a decision making process. So what does that mean? How do we lean into mindful marketing specifically within our industry, from a strategic and tactical perspective? Yeah, I think that you definitely started my thought on this by I think our industry has really long sales cycles, and they're really unique, and they're very interesting, and there's typically a lot of decision makers in the process for our clients. So a lot more complex than just a direct to consumer, right? We see an ad for a pair of pants on Facebook, and we click Buy, and it's done, and the marketing has one, right? It's a little bit different here. So I think kind of what you had spoke to earlier is we really have to lean in to the story, which is a little bit more difficult to do, and B to B, I think. And sometimes I think in our industry, because it's full of scientists and data driven people, that creating the story feels uncomfortable and different, but we have to connect the buyer, that that decision maker, to the brand, and that's the only way to do it. So I think for us, specifically in the life sciences, we're looking at like, what's the big impact? And I know some brands love to talk about it, and some brands get a little bit uncomfortable, right? We've had. Those conversations with our clients that are like, well, we're just making the drug or we're just making, you know, this first component of it, we're not necessarily seeing the long term like patient benefit down the line in their organization, right? Um, but a lot of times for our, our our industry, we see that it's life saving, it's preventing illnesses, it's enhancing patient experience, it's supporting regulations for people to keep them safe, like I have a quality company that I work with, and there's their job is to make sure everyone's following the rules so that we do have the safest drugs and all of that. And so their story can lean into that is the impact. We're keeping the patient safe. We're keeping you safe. We're making a difference in the drug industry, those types of things. And so we want to look at doing that through selling a story, but also leaning into the thought leadership of that the education, because, again, we have to remember, we're mostly talking to scientists and really data driven people and analytical people, so the more transparent we can be, but also provide the education as a support, versus doing like, you know, kind of to go back into scarcity marketing, or even, like, some of the fad tactics that we see, like the trending stuff to do, it's like that might not always be the best position for your brand and for your story. Yeah, I think that the educational and the thought leadership being paired with the long buyers journey in our field, specifically, there's a lot of pressure to deliver results, and I think that that this could take us a little bit down, too far down the marketing pathway, but I think that this mindfulness and and just the practice of being able to consume information and not overreacting is really important because, you know, the buyer's journey is six, 912, 18 months. And yet, a lot of times, marketing gets this rap where, hey, we need things tomorrow, and that's not how it works. And so this is a little bit selfishly, like, I wish that all commercial leaders just had, you know, maybe a tinge more of what we are talking about, because the pressure that they're under is real. And we know that with investments, we know private equity, you've got all the pressure to have an acquisition, to do these things is there, but marketing, throwing up a quick campaign tomorrow isn't going to solve these problems, and so it has something that's built and has that strategic foundation for for from, really, from the very beginning, yeah, I think simply put, like the importance of nurturing a long term relationship versus getting a quick, small sale, even if it is a shorter sales cycle, that's just not always going to be the best win, and it's not going to be the most mindful, supportive piece to your brand, either. So yeah, so how do I implement this? I'm a marketer. I consider myself pretty damn good at what I do, but I'm definitely a roller coaster individual, and there are highs and there are lows. How? What? What tools, what data, like, how do I keep this in practice, not only for myself, but also for the betterment of my like, my company's brand, my company's marketing? How do I do these things? Yeah, I think, you know, obviously marketing is a journey of learning along the way, in redefining, and I think that that's important, and I think that's probably something most marketers know, but sometimes easy to forget, because we work so hard on our plans, right, and our tactics and our strategy, and we're like, we've got it, let it go, And then it might not be successful, but our egos get in the way, and we're like, well, we're not going to change anything, because we need to keep giving it time. Um, but again, coming back to that curiosity, not coming back to the non judgment, and saying, You know what looks like, it's time to change some things and tweak some things and re look at our audience, or whatever it may be, and always be redefining what it is that you're working through without ego, and doing it a little bit more curiously than maybe you have done in the past. I think it's also important to keep especially as a marketer who's supporting those people that are getting the pressures of the revenue cycle right is like keeping a list of some of those marketing wins. Gratitude is a really important component of mindfulness as well. And when we can come back to in those challenging moments, the small wins, or even the big wins that have happened during that during that marketing plan, let's say about annual. Plan, or whatever it was, or a tweak that you might have made that was really impactful. Keeping on a list of those to help remember the work that you're doing and how great it is, I think, is always a good place to start. But I do want to talk about flow states, which is one of my favorite things, and I think we can use all of our mindfulness and have that support our marketing strategy. But I think finding our flow state as creative people, whether you're you know, my creativity is more of the strategy, whereas a designer is more of the the visuals and the copy and creativity looks so different for everybody, but Right? I love the thought of a flow state, and I think it's really important for everyone to use mindfulness to jump into it. I I had never really understood the concept of of flow state, not in a in a non sports way as, like, a high school athlete, I read this book called Mind Gym, which was, like one of my favorite books of all time. And it was just all through sports psychology, and what they called the research, that they referred to it as, was white moments where, like, you just kind of disappear, and, yes, you're in this flow state, and the ball is just going through the hoop, and you're not thinking about anything other than what you're doing. And then, you know, I am known to go on what I refer to as manic kind of up and downs, where it just feels like I am in a for lack of a better terms pocket of like, I could talk about this for hours, or I could build this strategy or this proposal for hours, and I will never get tired of it. And it's just kind of now reassociating That with this flow state. So yeah, does each person have their own version of what that flow state looks like? How do I find it? How do I get there? I know that you said the output might be different, right? Like your flow state and my flow state and Drake's flow state is going to be a little different, but they could look similar, like, just kind of talk about, like, each individual person, like, how do they find that? What can you do to try to, like, set that up. I hate to ask for a best practice because I'm not a best practice person, but what does that look like in terms of, like, how can I get in that pocket and create that state? Yeah, well, I first learned about flow states when I went through a leadership training in Omaha, and she talked about a flow state. And I was like, Well, I think we all assume, like, it's probably when you know the vibes are right, and you're just doing it, and it's like, it's not actually, it's it's a lot different than that, and it's a lot more than that, and it does look differently for everybody, but I think a flow state really is, like, less of a relaxed and chill state where you're, like, not feeling stressed. I think that's what people are initially thinking, but it's more of like a confident feeling of knowing that you're you're confident in what you're talking about or working on, but you also feel slightly challenged. Okay, so I'm a visual person, and so whenever I would talk about flow state or think about it for myself, I think of like a Yorks and DODDS Bell graph. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, in that like, if you don't have enough stress, then you're not going to be very productive, and you're not going to hit that flow state. And if you're not interested or confident about what it is that you're talking about, you're going to be like on the latter side of the bell curve. But then if you have too much, it's too challenging, it's not something you're interested in, then you could be on the other side, but finding the very top of the bell curve, which like perfect amount of challenge, perfect amount of stress, confidence in, you know, the tactical plan you're working on, or the big idea you're creating, or whatever, that's going to be your flow state right at the top of it. And typically it's like a little quiet and still and you're just moving and grooving. And I feel like, for me, when I hit my flow state, it's like, it just feels right, yeah. And I kind of like, pull back out of the work I'm doing, and I'm like, This is it? This is the flow state. This is where the creativity and where the solution and the problem converge. And I have got it all that I can work through. So I don't think that flow state happens every day for people, because it is kind of like, almost like a runner's high, okay? I every time I go for a run, I don't get a runner's high, but you've just got to have all the right things coming together to hit the flow state, yeah, for it to be impactful. But I'm gonna give you a slight best practice. Okay? Good. I was gonna ask on how to try to help, to tap into those things, okay, um, and I call them minis, okay? It's just like a little mini mindfulness thing. And this is at least going to help you drop into the present moment if you're working on something. And then you can bring all of those things we've talked about, right? Like, bring the curiosity to the work, bring the knowledge, non judgment, to the work, the research, all of that, right? But I kind of said it at the beginning. My favorite thing to do is to tell myself, what are all my senses doing? So, like, I can feel that I'm sitting in a chair. I feel my elbows on the leather of like, being so detailed and silly. I see Alec in front of me. I see a blue sky and white clouds. I can smell whatever it is. You can smell I can taste the sushi I had for lunch, like whatever it might be. It's your bringing everything to the present moment, where your senses are living, and then you can bring the other things into it, like the work. I have a tough question, okay, I have a tough question, what would you say if I hinted at or thought that the concept of a flow state could be conceived as a negative because I'm avoiding working because I don't feel like I'm in that flow state. You know what I mean? Like, there have been times where I'm like, oh, I need that caffeine, or I need to, like, I need to, I need to have something to get me there. And that, that that kind of blend between motivation and action and action causes motivation and vice versa. Is it a similar concept where, like, you have to put in the work in order to have the flow state, it's not just going to show up on a Tuesday afternoon and be like, we're here type of deal. I don't think so. I think the things have to come together, right? Like, the work has to come together. But like, you know that, okay, I have to sit down and do this tactical plan. Yeah, and you might know that you're confident in doing that, but you need something like, I need a cat. I need a Red Bull before I can, like, dive into this. It's like, well, actually do a mindfulness exercise. Drop into the present moment, and that's what's going to help to launch you there when you have the other things, like the confident work, the challenge of the work, those types of things, okay, I love that. I thought mindfulness is your cup of coffee, your afternoon cup of coffee, to enter the flow state. Well, I think, I think it's, I think it's important, because you start searching for that runner's high, right? You run, and you're like, Well, I didn't feel as good as I did yesterday. And then you don't run the next day. And so then you start to kind of beat yourself up. And again, the story that you tell if you don't go back to use, you call them minis, right? Like, if you don't go back to use the skills that you've created, you're you're at risk there. And so where can, you know, I listen to this podcast. I had this conversation. Man, I'm fired up. I noticed that there is a little gap for me. Where can I start? What? What can I do? You know, I know I know you talked about the senses, which I thought was great. And like, you know, I talk about, like, the grounding, like, Be Where Your Feet Are, type of thing. Where can somebody who's just learning this process, where can they start and apply this tomorrow when they're listening to this? Yeah, I think a good starting point is just to observe your thoughts and your emotions. And again, going back to the reaction versus the response when things happen. Obviously, mindfulness is a practice. I've been doing it for a very long time, but find myself not acting with mindfulness frequently. So it's something that we do have to practice. By saying something comes in, an email comes in from your client, and you're like, this is their want to change this, or I've got to completely redo this and read it's like, well, I could let my ego get in the way and be like, I told you, I told you, this could be a problem, that this could have happened, you know, or I could react to it and get upset, or I could say, be curious. Well, things might have changed for them. On that end of it, I'm there's no reason for me to react. I'm going to respond, I'm going to say, yes, we'll get that done for you. I'm taking a deep breath and passing along the work. So I think it's the harder thing to do. I feel like that's the easiest way to say it is like there's two options when things happen to us, and it's always the harder option is the more mindful option. But it just takes practice. Unfortunately, I adore that. I think that I promised that we would do about 4040, minutes or so we're past that point in terms of, sorry, no, no, I love, love, love, love, this concept. And so I only have you for a couple of more minutes. I think, for me, when I think about the takeaways, two pathways. One is that curiosity. I think that again, the more curious you are, the more successful you're going to be in relationships, at home, with friends and at work. The more curious you are, the more. Successful you're going to be. And then I love this concept. It's really the first time I've heard of it, in terms of the respond, not react. Like, I have to react to this thing right away. My reaction is going to be, what the hell like, I thought we I thought we were on the same page. We clarified that, like, we're moving forward here, and you start to all of a sudden, you're at 10, you're at 11, and I like this thought of like responding, because responding, for whatever reason in my head, makes it feel like I put more thought into it. I am gathering all of the right information, and I'm going to have a productive response. Response just feels more productive to me. Yeah, any thoughts on that before I ask you for final takeaways on your I feel, yeah, I feel I like that product. It's more productive, absolutely, I think too. It's like, well, we don't want to just suppress like, oh, this, this thing that happened made me angry, right? I can recognize I am angry. I'm feeling that ego. I'm feeling that anger come up, and sitting with it and just taking a moment to be like, I'm angry. This is why I'm upset about that. And then eventually you'll be able to more cool and level headedly come to, okay, here's my productive response to the situation at hand. So I do think that that's important to note that we're not trying to, like, suppress something or ignore anything, like we want to be presently with everything that's going on, because we are human beings and we have all of these emotions. You know, it's like, what I tell my toddler and my six year old when we're working through seven emotions at one time. It's like, you know, we're going to have this feeling, and we're not going to make it go away, but we can just recognize feeling angry, but I'm not going to react to it. Yeah, I think that's such an important call out the feelings are valid. It's just how we respond to the those feelings is so important, yeah, and doing it non judgmentally, because that's what John says, too, right? So like letting yourself just feel the feeling for a second and then move on, and we go back to that, you know, you said it so that it's the awareness that arises through paying attention on purpose, in the present moment, non judgmentally, as if your life depended on it. I think that's just such a it's a great way to to kind of put a bow on this conversation with Stevie before we wrap up. Final takeaways. You know, someone's listening to this, they're still hesitant, what's, what's the takeaway? You know, what's something that you would offer to somebody at the end of this conversation? Yeah, I think what you said about mindfulness is perfect, that we can pay attention first, drop ourselves into the present moment, do it without judgment, let go of our ego, all of those things. But I think as it pertains to marketing, I think that we need to focus on education. Education, we need to focus on the long term relationships. What can you do to turn your brand into a story that you can sell and just again, prioritizing those relationships over any quick sells or fad marketing tactics, and, you know, listening to your audience and taking it with a grain of salt and trying to re refine what you can from there. So you know, you made my day, tying it back into marketing in your in your final takeaway, I love that it's so important. Stevie, this conversation has been fantastic. If anybody is listening to this and you want to pick Stevie's brain, I know that she'd be happy to do that. So feel free to reach out to her on LinkedIn. You can reach out to me if you have other questions. Well, we will certainly. I've got a feeling that the getting unstuck series might be getting a third person to join one of the next LinkedIn podcast recordings, because I think you and Brooke would eat it up together, and that would be awesome. So for everybody listening as always, SCORR cast really would not be possible without you listening and or you joining as a guest speaker. So thank you so much. You listened to this episode. You thought it was fantastic, because it was, do not forget to leave it five star review wherever you are listening to it on Spotify. Now you can actually leave a comment, and you could say, Wow, episode was so cool. Everybody should listen to it. And I really appreciate all of those. And until next time, we will, we'll talk to you soon. Stevie, thank you again. Have a great day. Thank you. As always, thank you for tuning in to this episode of The SCORR cast. Brought to you by. SCORR Marketing, we appreciate your time and hope you found this discussion insightful. Don't forget to subscribe and join us for our next episode. Until then, remember, marketing is supposed to be fun.