Strategic Ops, Unlocked: Manish Kapur’s Workshop Playbook

What does it really take to operate more strategically as an agency?

Manish Kapur returns to The Handbook to help agency ops leaders shift from firefighting mode to future-focused thinking. If you’ve ever struggled to carve out time for the big picture while juggling the day-to-day, this episode is your playbook.

Harv and Manish dig into how to run fast-paced, high-impact workshops that drive meaningful change – and how to keep momentum once priorities have been decided. They also explore how ops folks can step up as strategic leaders, driving these initiatives, especially as AI is forcing agencies to become more adaptable than ever.

Here’s what we get into:

• Why agencies that plan beyond month-to-month win long-term
• Manish’s 7-part workshop format that delivers clarity, alignment, and action
• How to navigate alignment across multiple offices and entities
• The role of ops in driving, not just supporting, AI strategy
• Why senior buy-in is the secret to getting big initiatives done

Whether you're leading change or nudging it along, this conversation is packed with real-world tactics to keep your agency moving forward.

Additional Resources:

Manish's workshop playbook: https://www.scoro.com/podcast/episode/strategic-ops-unlocked-manish-kapur-workshop-playbook/

Follow Manish on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manishkapur/ 

Follow Harv on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harvnagra/

Stay up to date with regular ops insights. Subscribe to The Handbook: The Operations Newsletter. Sign up here: https://scoro.com/podcast/#handbook

This podcast is brought to you by Scoro, where you can manage your projects, resources and finances in a single system.

Transcript

Manish Kapur: 0:00

I think it's better to have maybe, three or four goals that are really liked to be achieved within the timeframe that you've set than to have 10 that you think would be great to do. And none of them happens'cause it's just too ambitious and you can't do it. So I think it's really important to apply the smart methodology to make sure that it's actually specific, it's measurable, it's attainable, it's realistic, and it's time bound.

Harv Nagra: 0:21

Mm-hmm.

Manish Kapur: 0:22

when you really know if a goal is actually gonna happen. Otherwise it's just is too broad. I think also you have to use a bit of an impact and effort matrix to see, is it actually achievable? Can we do that within our current workload? And that's like a very simple method about actually putting that goal down on paper and just seeing, well, how much of the impact it would actually have. Well, it would've a really high impact but the effort would also be quite high. Or can we actually achieve that?

Harv Nagra: 0:46

Thanks for listening to The Handbook, the agency operations podcast. This podcast is brought to you by Scoro. In 1995, two Japanese researchers set out to test a hypothesis that people perceive beautiful interfaces as more user friendly. They presented participants with bank machine interfaces with identical functionality. Just one set looked ugly and clunky, and the other set was aesthetically pleasing. The results were unanimous. People perceived the prettier interfaces to be more user friendly. I brought in a clunky agency management platform in the past. It did everything it needed to do, but it looked like it was designed in the late 90s My team hated it and complained about it being complicated. Scoro was a sight for sore eyes when it was time to switch. If it's a platform your team is going to spend a lot of their day in, they deserve for it not to be hideous. I write my own copy for these ads. Can you tell? Sign up for a free trial at scoro.Com or if you arrange a demo call, tell them Harv sent you. Now, let's get to the episode. Hey all. Welcome back to the Handbook, the Agency Operations Podcast with me, Harv Nagra. Now, this is a very special episode. It's our first birthday the day this episode is being posted. So if you've been with us since the beginning, a massive thank you for your support. And if you're a new listener, a very warm welcome and a reminder that all of the conversations that we've had over the past year are just as relevant today. So do go back and check out any you've missed From people and performance management to productivity, to tech, finances, sales and marketing. We've had a huge range of topics on the podcast with some brilliant experts sharing their best operational strategies with us. What I wanted to get into today was deeper into the conversation on being strategic in our operations. A few episodes ago we had Preston Chandler from WPP on the podcast where he was talking about why it's so important to prioritize strategic operations and not just focus on the tactical. Preston gave us some areas he recommends that we should be looking at to do just that. If you heard the conversation, you might recall that when I asked Preston how to make progress on these projects, his advice was to just bite the bullet. You can do amazing stuff in a couple of days, and he was saying, draw a line in the sand with what things looked like before the change and what they will look like after. I do think that's good advice in many cases, not to drag things out and make it last a year when it could be done in a few days. The thing is, there are sometimes initiatives that might get assigned to other people that we are not responsible as ops leaders for moving forward with ourselves. There might also be projects that need more coordination and input from other teams or other offices, and that's what I've struggled with in the past wondering how do you keep the momentum, the accountability, and ensure those projects do get done and that they don't get bogged down, dragged out, or get stuck getting sign off. Especially when so many of us now work in distributed teams. Now onto today's guest. if you think back, you might remember that the very first guest we had on the podcast was the absolutely brilliant Manish Kapur. Well, guess what? He's back here to celebrate our first birthday, and he's gonna share his advice on how we can do all of the above. I'm not gonna waste any more time. Let's get into it with Manish. Manish, welcome back to the podcast. You're the first guest that we've had back for a second time, or I should say has, willingly come back a second time. And you're, celebrating our one year birthday today, the day this podcast comes out. So thank you very much for launching a year ago and for coming back as well.

Manish Kapur: 4:34

No, I'm really happy to be like, I can't believe it's been a year.

Harv Nagra: 4:37

It's flown by. So we're getting into kind of being more strategic today. we've had some conversations on this in the past, but there's some more, deep diving into this that I wanted to sort out for my own sake, and I'm sure there's other people that have a similar challenge as well. But before we get into it, a bit of context setting, do you think separates agencies that consistently grow from those that end up stagnating

Manish Kapur: 5:01

Well, I think it really boils down to future planning. You know, The agencies that do grow are the ones that actually plan for the short, medium, and long term and actually have a plan in place and then work back. And I think that's the biggest difference versus the one that just work month to month.

Harv Nagra: 5:16

So actually, I think our conversation is quite fitting because the whole theme of it is to make sure that you're taking the opportunity to identify things that you need to sort out. so that you end up being a much smarter, more efficient organization, rather than just running the way you always have. To that point though, my challenge is that it is very easy to fall into, what I like referring to as the whirlwind MDs that can't get outta delivery, finance and operations leaders that get pulled into firefighting. I really struggled sometimes to prioritize when there's just constantly questions flying in on Slack and things like that. And trying to find the right balance between making progress on my own business initiatives versus helping people troubleshoot theirs. So some advice from yourself would be really helpful. How do you suggest that we as operations or agency leaders ensure that we're able to find the focus to work on those bigger picture projects that actually move the needle and drive the business forward?

Manish Kapur: 6:12

Yeah, I think it's, it's a bit of a cliche, but it is important and that's that you've gotta have find time to work on the business, not in it. And the way to do that is to extract yourself from the day to day. And I think it's really important that once you've actually set your future plan, the short, medium, and long-term goals, that you've got an opportunity to review those. And I think that's where monthly management meetings are really important. Taking time out and spending, an hour or two hours every month just reviewing where the business is at without any of the other distractions as business as usual. So I think that's quite key and it keeps you on track. The other thing is important is that if you are starting some initiative, it's to take time out, maybe do a workshop of some sort. And that also should be done, externally, just so you're focusing on the business and away from the day to day. Because if you try and squeeze these things in with all the usual challenges that you have of running an agency, it just won't happen. Or if it does happen, it won't be particularly good and it's really difficult to get everyone together, particularly if they're a senior role. So the best thing to do is to go right. We're gonna put a date in the diary, this is what we're gonna be focusing on. Everyone needs to attend. And just ensure that you have that time stipulated for people to spend time thinking about the business and not the day-to-day challenges.

Harv Nagra: 7:18

Absolutely. one thing that I've learned a bit later than I maybe should have is to also block out my own time. I knew what priorities I had, but if you're just looking at your to-do list and trying to pick what you wanna work on, but then you have those constant distractions coming in, well there's two things really. One is make sure you turn on do not disturb so that you can actually focus, the world is not gonna end if you don't answer somebody's question within a minute or something like that. And, um, I, I think that blocking out time is just so important.'cause what I would find Manish is that I would have the best intentions at the start of the week, when all that kind of business as usual questions start flying in and stuff like that, I would find that I would prioritize those and my project work and the things that I wanted to do would get shoveled into a smaller and smaller window, and it would end up feeling like it was a little pocket on a Friday evening uh, you know, or, or needing to work overtime or, out of office to actually make progress on that. So I think it's really simple as well, is just make sure you carve out time and prioritize that because you are working on something that's super important to the success of the

Manish Kapur: 8:22

Absolutely. It does help if it's an initiative that's been set up by the most senior person in the agency, then people do make the time. I experienced it. It feels something that I wanted to launch. It was just me. Then it was a bit of a challenge to get everyone to take some time out. But when it was set by the chairperson or the CEO, then all of a sudden it became everyone's top priority. So I think with all these type of initiatives, you've gotta really have. Some kind of, senior advocate for it.'cause that's the best way of ensuring that people will find time. And I always say, look, people need to take holidays and very rarely do they cancel a holiday if they've got another type brief or a deadline to hit. Well, I'd hope not. They find a way around it. And I think because it's mixed in with business as usual and working on the agency, people tend to flex a bit and it tends to get a little bit lost. But ultimately, if you can take time outta the agency for your personal stuff, then you have to make the similar effort to do that for working on the agency. And of course, having someone senior will certainly help because they'll make sure it happens. But everyone's gonna see the importance of it. They've gotta see the value and find a way.

Harv Nagra: 9:21

super excited to get into the practicalities, but that's a opportunity for me to mention that. If listeners haven't signed up for the Handbook newsletter, you definitely should because you'll get the notes from this episode with all of Manisha's advice in there in your inbox about a week after this episode goes out. So. let's say you do wanna sit down and have a workshop with some senior members of your team to identify gaps and priorities, right? You could be doing this at any time, really, there's no need to say, this needs to be in the autumn to kick off for January, although that might be a good time that people like thinking about this stuff, but it could really happen anytime. First question, how long should this workshop be, and who should you invite?

Manish Kapur: 10:03

Well, I think you probably are looking at a day, going back to the previous question about how do you fit things in when you've got other stuff going on, one tactic might be that, okay, if you can't do the full day, then you split it into two sections or into even four. So if you are really struggling because things are so busy to actually get time out, then you might decide, well, look, I'd rather have two really good focus sessions than trying to do a day that's full of interruptions.

Harv Nagra: 10:26

Mm-hmm.

Manish Kapur: 10:27

say that it's always challenging to get people into these meetings. And normally when you're having some form of strategic workshop, it's probably gonna involve your most senior people and they're the hardest to try and coordinate and get into your diary. So if you are gonna have to do that, you're probably going, okay, let's get it in for a day, one day where we can get everyone who's seen you within the business into this workshop and just have that as a kind of a, a blocked out session for people to actually attend.

Harv Nagra: 10:50

And if you are the ops director that is trying to coordinate this, is there any prep work that you should do beforehand to get everything ready?

Manish Kapur: 10:57

Yeah, absolutely. Do you know the, the key thing with any kind of workshop is to ensure that you actually know what the objective is for that workshop. And I think that's something you've gotta have in place before you even start. And that's gonna involve talking to some key people just to make sure that everyone's aligned because you've got that day, there's a lot to get through. The last thing you want is to get to that workshop, and then people start to question or challenge the objective. then before you know it, you've not actually done any workshopping. All you've done has been challenging around the,, actual objective. So have that set and prep beforehand. So everyone knows we're doing a workshop, we're gonna do it on this day, and this is the objective for that workshop, and that has to be agreed well in advance.

Harv Nagra: 11:33

Yeah, good point. And I, if you are talking about kind of business objectives and results and stuff like that, what are your thoughts around should you have some reports ready is that useful to reflect on, do you think?

Manish Kapur: 11:45

Yeah, I think it's well worth asking the attendees, if they know the objectives, they'd be prepped. And to have things to hand so they can refer to it. You know, To be honest, it's probably not gonna be anything more than just a laptop with a wifi connection, because most of the stuff should be easily accessible, but they should have in mind what are they gonna bring and what information they're going to need to maybe validate a point. They might have a certain opinion, and that's where data comes into play to say, well look, based on what we had before or what we've done and what we've achieved and these type of results, this is why I'm putting forward this suggestion. But, they'll know what the objective is and they should be prepped. And I think there's nothing worse than when someone turns up who hasn't done any kind of prep whatsoever.'cause it really shows because they're not being really clear on their points, they're not really, really sure about how they wanna move forward on something. And that really stands out. So it's in their interest just to be prepped in advance so they know how they might answer certain questions and contribute to the workshop.

Harv Nagra: 12:33

you were mentioning the use of laptops, so do you think like, and a Miro board is fine, do you think if you're getting people together, chart paper, all that kind of stuff, do you think one works better than the other?

Manish Kapur: 12:44

Yeah, I think when you are starting off with a workshop, particularly it's more strategic. You don't want it to be too fine tuned, and that's why I prefer the more traditional methods of a bit of brown paper, a whiteboard. Markers, stickies, all those things. And so it's not so fine tuned because what you really wanna do is use that opportunity where you've got all those senior people to use their brain power and get as much of their ideas down on paper. if you're trying to finesse it too much and going digital, then that can be a problem. I think just one point on the laptops, I think it's important that people are only using the laptops for finding out information and not sitting there checking emails.'Cause that's the only drawback, and I think I should have mentioned this earlier, is if people have got technology in the room, obviously they'll have their mobiles and laptops. That's something that they want to put away. So they are there purely for information and not that actually up on a desk where people are able to check emails.'cause that'll ruin the flow. Put the laptops to the side, have your paper, your markers, your stickies out, and use those to sort of ask people, you know, certain opinions on ideas. And I think that's the best way to go.

Harv Nagra: 13:44

let's talk about the format for the day. You've got a framework for running this kind of workshop, which has seven sessions over the course of the day with some breaks built in and stuff like that. So I wanted to walk through that for our listeners so they have a total understanding of how you recommend running this. So let's start with session one. I think you were saying this is the welcome and scene setting. So just talk us through a bit of that. How long is that and what happens during that

Manish Kapur: 14:11

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's important to mention that this is a fast-paced workshop. There's a lot to get through within the day, but once again, it goes back to my previous point. It's so difficult to get senior people in the room and particularly if you want them for a day. So you're trying to get through as much as possible, and that's also why that you go more traditional methods or pen and paper because it's just generally a lot quicker. But I would say that the first thing you do with the scene setting, it's the first 15 minutes of actually deciding and making sure everyone is agreed on what the overall objective is. I think ultimately it's also about setting the principles and just making sure that everyone's in the right framework. So things like, honesty, being open-minded, okay. To challenge, ensure that people are willing to collaborate and forward focus. And of course you may say that, well, we do that all the time. But I think it's important just to reiterate that, that the purpose of this, workshop is to ensure that we can really say what we really think. It's a closed environment, it's really there for just the people within that room. But people should be able to say what they wanna say without fear, particularly when the most senior person in the agency might be present. I'm sure they would also want to hear the facts and I think it's no point or hold worth bodying back. On that. I think also just making sure that we're aligned on the outputs to make sure that what success looks like. So to set, look, we have this objective and our aim for the end of the day is this. So we set the art right from the beginning.

Harv Nagra: 15:29

Really, really good points. Set the stage for the day and make sure that psychological safety element has been emphasized.

Manish Kapur: 15:36

Yeah, and I would just add that's only 15 minutes. That's just like the first 15 minutes just to start off.

Harv Nagra: 15:41

Let's move on to session two, which you call the,'where are we now' session. So please talk us through that length and what gets done during this session.

Manish Kapur: 15:51

Yeah, so this is quite a chunky period, so this is 45 minutes. And the objective there is really to understand what the current state of the agency is from a strategic and operational lens. So there's a few activities there that I recommend that we focus on where we are now part, and that will be first of all, is a, a brief presentation from the leadership. And so I think everyone needs to start off with just doing a brief presentation on where they think the agency's currently at. So that might be things like looking at the current goals or their strategy recent business performance, depending on where they are and what their roles are. Any known bottlenecks or frustrations. And I think it's just really good just to air that out right at the very beginning. And it's important that everyone does that. It may vary depending on what team they're in, but in general, that's what it should cover. There should also then be a bit of team reflection. So this is where people would probably work out silent at first and then shared. And some of the things that they should be thinking about in their heads initially is, what's working well what's getting in the way what are we over-relying on as far as people or patchwork solutions? And that should just be the people just stepping back and thinking about that. You may like to think that they've done some prep work and they're already thinking about these things, but they may not had a chance. But within that workshop, just to spend a bit of time thinking it to themselves, and then when they're ready, only for like five minutes is that's when it's shared with the group. And everyone has an opportunity to, to reflect and share the reflections to the rest of the people in the workshop.

Harv Nagra: 17:11

there any tools that could also be used to facilitate this?

Manish Kapur: 17:14

Yeah. Well that's a good point actually, because I think with any kind of workshop you wanna try and have as much things as set and prompted in advance. You don't want to give people the answer, but just to make sure they're all thinking in the same lines. And I think this is where the ops has an important role to play because there is more prep work that could be done and they could be thinking about what type of questions they could ask just to make sure it stays aligned. Ideally when people start to reflect and then they come back with their answers, they're aligned with what other people are thinking in the same ballpark. So for instance, you could set a framework and say, they are like four pillars, for instance. So have a think about, how are we doing from a leadership perspective? How are we doing from a financial perspective? How are we doing from a people perspective? How are we doing from a process perspective? some kinda like buckets that people could have a think about without it being too broad.

Harv Nagra: 17:58

Really good point. I was reading over your framework and you also had something there about kind of the start, stop and continue, which is also a really great way to just kind of prompt

Manish Kapur: 18:08

Yeah. And I think these are the things that you bring in. So once people are started to share.

Harv Nagra: 18:13

Mm-hmm.

Manish Kapur: 18:13

reflections are. And then so on is writing it down. Then you can start to use those. So on the left hand side you can write down everyone's points and then you'll probably find there's some commonalities that a lot of people are saying the same thing about a particular point. And that's when you can start to use the sort of the start, stop, continue type methodology to say, well actually that's working really well. Let's continue with that. We agree that this is a bit of a behavior that's not good, that we should just stop. Or there might be something that's actually missing. And then we go, actually, that's something that we should be doing. So then you put that within the column of start.

Harv Nagra: 18:44

Right. Let's move on then. We're into session three. We've had a look at how we're doing at the moment and reflecting on kind of the figures and what's working well, and maybe not so well. So session three, you call future visioning. How long is that and what happens during that session?

Manish Kapur: 18:59

Yeah, so this is probably the bit that one kind of looks forward to. And I think there might be chomping at the bit to get started, but I do think the previous stages are equally as important. So this is a good hour of actually doing that. And what that primarily evolves is to articulate where the agency wants to be in different horizons. So it could be short term, which might be 12 months, it may be medium, one to three years. And it may be long term, three years plus. It could be that the CEO is the person who's setting that vision initially. They're the ones that tend to set the overall direction, that's key part of their role. But that doesn't mean that other people can't have a view on that. And this may be something that the CEO is actually thought about in advance. So they already know that this is where they want the agency to be. And they use the opportunity where they've got everyone within the workshop to basically do that so they can go, right, this is my initial thoughts, this is why I think the agency should be in X amount of years, and then start to get some feedback on that. But some of the things that you can do as far as activities and far as guided prompts is if we're sitting here in a year, what would success look like? What do we want to be known for as an agency? What should our client mix team and revenue model look like in three years? What our ultimate ambition or exit plan, if any? So these are very broad. Very open guided prompts. So they're not going into any kind of detail at the moment. It's just really getting an idea of, what people see as the future. Now of course it could be that CEO has already set that vision and just wants to get feedback from the rest of the people. Or actually that person hasn't got it. They want to grow the agency, but they're not exactly sure what the agency should be like in that time period. And they use the opportunity of where they've got a workshop of people actually giving their ideas.'cause ultimately you need to have the leadership team involved to actually hit your goals. So bringing them in early and getting their view could be a good way of doing it.

Harv Nagra: 20:40

Yep. It's a nice opportunity to sense, check that vision that's already there, but also get input from the most senior people in the team. so that's about an hour. let's move into session four then. Defining and prioritizing goals. So maybe this is where I've struggled because you end up creating a huge list of ideas and then it's like, well, how do you select which ones actually move forward and all that kind of stuff. So, talk us through session four, defining and prioritizing goals.

Manish Kapur: 21:08

Yeah, and I think it's important to mention after each sort of session you are writing things down and having some kind of conclusion. So I think even with the previous one, there might be some time horizon mapping where you go, well, actually within the stages of like 12 months. Three years and three years plus. What are the things and activities that we're looking to do or where we want to be at? So as you're going along, you are writing these down and end up with some kind of broad conclusion about what you hope to achieve for that particular session. Because otherwise it just becomes quite unwielding. There's a lot of things to get done, but I think this is one of the areas that's probably the most challenging because you can spend a lot of time thinking about where you wanna be and have some great ideas, but if they're not actually implemented, then it's been pretty wasted. So I think within this sort of the defining and positioning prioritization of the goals, that's a good session of a good hour and a half because that's where it starts to have a little bit of reality and it's important to spend that amount of time on it. So the overall objective of that is obviously to translate the ambitions and aspiration into small number of clear, actionable goals for each team or tif each time horizon. So this is where you're trying to add a bit of realism. So for instance, if you go, well, we want to be the biggest agency in the world in three years. And you're nowhere near that, then clearly that's not a very good, clear ambition to aim for. So there's also some bit of being realistic about what's actually achievable. And I think that's what that session really does. And I think it's important just to group them down into smaller priorities because I think sometimes you can end up with so many that nothing gets done and you have to be realistic about what could be achieved. And one key part of that is to put them into smaller little groups or ones that are actually achievable. And I think it's better to have maybe, three or four goals that are really liked to be achieved within the timeframe that you've set than to have 10 that you think would be great to do. And none of them happens'cause it's just too ambitious and you can't do it. So I think it's really important to apply the smart methodology to make sure that it's actually specific, it's measurable, it's attainable, it's realistic, and it's time bound.

Harv Nagra: 23:01

Mm-hmm.

Manish Kapur: 23:01

when you really know if a goal is actually gonna happen. Otherwise it's just is too broad. I think also you have to use a bit of an impact and effort matrix to see, is it actually achievable? Can we do that within our current workload? And that's like a very simple method about actually putting that goal down on paper and just seeing, well, how much of the impact it would actually have. Well, it would've a really high impact but the effort would also be quite high. Or can we actually achieve that? For instance, if it's a high impact and the effort's medium because the impact is so high, it's worth going for. So all these things help just to solidify their goals to make sure that they are actually achievable.'cause also it's given the leadership team that are in that workshop more of a an opportunity to know what's required, but also something that's realistic and confidence that they can actually achieve that as well. And I think it's also just to map that out within the timeframe because ultimately the objective for that workshop was to set some goals, but to set them in some form of timeframe with a short, medium, and long term. And so if you are gonna do them and set them as a priority, make sure they're time bound and that kind of helps to put them within a timeframe to say that's something that we hope to get done within 12 months. That's something that we wanna get done within three years, or this is something that's gonna be three years plus. I think they're really important.

Harv Nagra: 24:12

So with these kind of priorities that we're setting should the ops director be the one driving all of this, or are you at this stage also assigning who's gonna lead some of these because the ops person would become a bottleneck? What are your thoughts on that?

Manish Kapur: 24:28

Well, I think this is interesting. It's a little bit broader topic really, but I think this is where OPS has really become a role in itself. Traditionally when I started off I was a studio manager and the role evolved into ops and I think there's an opportunity now within ops for people to be more involved in the setting the direction of the business and helping actually implement it, the changes. And I think this is where OPS has got a key role to play. And of course, the overall vision's probably gonna be set by the most senior person within the agency. It could be the founder, could, the CEO could be a chairperson, but I think they've got a real clear role of actually making sure this gets implemented and becomes a reality. And I think this is why operations where it tends to be quite internally focused an important role to make sure that what's agreed within that workshop becomes a clear actionable plan. And they take the lead. Because I think if you spread it around to too many people, if if too many people own it, nobody owns it. So I think it's really important that, ops are the ones that really take the lead on this because I think they're best placed from an internal perspective to make sure that all the objectives and goals that have been set within the workshop are actually achievable and do happen. Although they have to rely on people who are part of the leadership team to ensure that they do their bit and they assign real responsibilities. But I think OPS has got a key role to play because a lot of this is gonna be involving internal things that need to be sorted. So making sure that you have the right systems and tools in place. To actually achieve the goals, to make sure you've got the right processes there in place to make sure that people and roles are also clear. cause that's gonna be quite key on that. So there's metrics and reporting to ensure that there's ways of measuring progress and see that set. And also there's financial controls in place as well to control budgets and all that kind of stuff. So that's where ops come into play and I think their role is gonna be quite key, not only to ensure that the whole thing stays on track, but also ensure that other people are doing their bit. But a lot of that's gonna require some internal change and ops are best placed to be doing that.

Harv Nagra: 26:13

I really like what you're saying. I think this has also been one of my kind of issues in the past, in the way I've tried to run this, is deciding that certain initiatives somebody else would be best placed to own that. And the thing is, a lot of times these other senior leaders in the business, apart from maybe finance like the fd, have client priorities or team priorities. They might be head of accounts or. Head of digital, things like that. And so when those individuals are assigned things like obviously client work takes the priority for them and everything else becomes really difficult. So if it is the ops director that's owning it, they can be the ones coordinating Preparing for those workshops to get the best out of these individuals and moving things along. And I think it just goes back to us reminding everyone that operations is a strategic role, and it's not just about the tactical and the firefighting and stuff like that. So this is the fun, exciting stuff that we hopefully really enjoy working on. The stuff that really pays off. be the owner, be the driver, and, and just get it done.

Manish Kapur: 27:17

Absolutely, and I think you're right. This is the exciting part. It's a lot more exciting than resource management. So you know, to have an opportunity to be sitting at the top table to help the agency hit strategic goals is quite key. But also if you think about what operations do on a day to day is very much focused around the business, as in the creative lead is obviously having to focus on output. And finance is obviously having to keep an eye on the numbers. CEO, MDs, thinking about the future and sales. So they've all got other external stuff that they've also got to focus on. There only is really one person that has the ability and time to really focus on what's going on within the agency, and that's ops.

Harv Nagra: 27:53

If you're getting to that size where you're feeling like, okay, well this is a lot of work that I need to be doing. that's also Okay. I, I think that's where you can also start making a case for bringing in kind of an ops manager a project management officer or a resource manager so that you're. Delegating those more tactical elements of your role to other people that can be the frontline when it comes to resourcing or, or troubleshooting, even systems management. But then you get to work on these more important initiatives and supporting the FD in kind of the analysis of how the business is performing and forecasting and stuff like

Manish Kapur: 28:27

Yeah, it's a really good point. It might be the opportunity where you can ask for that additional support within your team you know you're being set the challenge of ensuring that whatever goals that you've come out, that workshop are actually achieved. And you gotta spend time on that to say, well, I do need a bit of support in other areas of the business. And obviously there's gonna be some tasks that s people just don't wanna do anymore. And the opportunity to delegate those tasks to somebody else is, is a great opportunity. Not only would it benefit the agency because you've got someone taking responsibility for the goals that you want to achieve for the longer term, but also to hand over some of the things that you, maybe you don't want to do some more. And you've got an opportunity to actually get someone in because there's now a bigger goal an opportunity for the business. And that will only be achieved if that ops person's got the right support in place themselves.

Harv Nagra: 29:07

I think a lot of us, like we end up accumulating a lot of responsibilities over time and not being able to shed anything. That also results in burnout and kind of frustration with the role as well.'cause you end up working on these things that don't excite you any longer and don't challenge you. All right, Manish. Let's get into session five, which you call operational alignment. Please talk us through that.

Manish Kapur: 29:29

Yeah, so this is another big session. It's a good hour and a half. It's a great opportunity for the ops person to really have a big part to play in the overall workshop. Overall objective is identify operational enablers which are required to support delivery of goals. You now, the chances are this is gonna be very much internally focused because it's shifting the agency and this change management. So I think, some of the activities there is really to think about what is it we need to be doing from an internal perspective to enable us to, to achieve those goals and also get feedback from other people to see if they think there's gonna be certain challenges. And those things might be, for instance, looking at systems and tools. Do we have the right tools in place to enable us to hit those goals? What are our processes like? Are there those things that need to be reviewed?

Harv Nagra: 30:10

Mm-hmm.

Manish Kapur: 30:11

blocks in the way that we work that might prevent us from achieving our long-term goals? Also, assessing people in roles. Do we have the right people in place? You know, If the agency, for instance, wants to be more strategic and less tactic based, do we have the right people in place to, to deliver that? Also decide on what sort of metrics are gonna be used. How are we gonna know that this is actually working? How do we report on those things? And if there's any, any financial controls that also need to be in place.'cause there might be money involved. For instance, you might need to hire more people that you might need to bring in more systems and tools. And so all that's gonna cost money. So how do you control that? How do you control the budgets on those things? I think it's important that there's a methodology called the Red Thread. Which means that everything's gotta be linked from start to finish. And I really like it because ultimately what you're doing is you're mapping out a start to end. But to get to that point, you need to think about what is it we need in between that start and that end to enable us to hit that. And I think that's where ops comes into play, because there's some internal changes that are required along the way to ensure you hit your goal, but they've all gonna be linked to that overall objective. So you're not adding things on just for the sake of it. You are going, well actually this is gonna aid us to that objective. That's why we need this. So one is aligned in the first place.

Harv Nagra: 31:21

haven't heard of the red thread, that sounds really useful. So, is that kind of thinking about the people, the processes, the tools that might be required for that objective? Is that kind of what you mean?

Manish Kapur: 31:30

Pretty much everything because you've got a start goal, a start, and then you've got the end goal. And then you think about how you're gonna achieve that. And from an operational perspective, there's gonna be some changes.

Harv Nagra: 31:38

Mm-hmm.

Manish Kapur: 31:39

for instance, you may look at it and go that, well one of the things that we need to do is to ensure that our reporting is a lot clearer. Well, do we have the right tools?'cause at the moment we're using the Excel. So do we need to invest in a tool that allows us to do reporting? Well if we're gonna do that, what about the data? Well, that all needs to go into one place. So that's one. Now, it may be difficult for the ops person to warrant getting in a new system'cause it can be time and it can be expensive. But. By saying that our overall goal is this, and to ensure that we achieve it from start to finish, we need to have this in place to enable us to hit that. So the whole thing around the red thread is really, it's about aligned to an actual goal that we're looking to achieve. That's, that's the reason. It's not because we just wanna get it in. It's because it's allowing us to achieve that ultimate goal. This is what we're focused on, and there may be other things that need to come into play, but it's all aligned to the same strategic goal that you set out within that workshop.

Harv Nagra: 32:32

Yep. All right, so we're gonna move into session six, which is about staying on track.

Manish Kapur: 32:38

Yeah, so this is obviously the hardest part

Harv Nagra: 32:40

Yeah,

Manish Kapur: 32:40

obviously everyone's left that workshop and they're all gonna be really excited. And then as you expect, business as usual comes into play and then people kind of like get distracted and then things just start to go off track. so I think this is where OPS has got a real key role to play because as well as ensuring that the overall workshop is hit its objectives. We want to make sure that there are some clear action points that come from the workshop, and that's where everyone else is gonna have some actions that they're working towards as well. And they have to be set before the workshop finishes. this is what you are gonna be doing, CEO. This is what you are gonna be doing. Finance director, this is what you are gonna be focused on. Creative director. This is gonna do head of client servicing right the way through. So everyone has got a clear role and an action point that they've got to deliver on, but also that's also gonna be set with a deadline. So this is what we're working towards because if we don't have that, then it will start to drift. And it may be that because one person hasn't done their bit, it has a knock on effect to someone else's. So that's why everyone's got to be agreed that this is what they're gonna be doing and this is when they're gonna get done by. And then it's ops role to make sure that everyone's actually doing that. And if anyone has got a problem with actually achieving it, some challenges to help try and break those. So it may be, for instance that the creative director has got busy on a pitch and they might struggle to hit their particular action points. Then they might step in, the ops person, say, well actually, do you need to be so heavily involved? Could I get some more support for you on that pitch? Could I help with a bigger team that might be able to support just to ensure that they have time to do their action points? Not the sort of usual to say, well, okay, we've got a pitch, we're now gonna have to bump that. Because then you get back to that scenario where things won't happen and you won't be able to hit your action points and delaying everyone else at the same time.

Harv Nagra: 34:16

Absolutely. I've seen that happen one too many times where an excuse once you get back to your desks for everything, and things are always gonna come up. So if you start letting things slip in terms of deadlines for all the, steps that need to be taken to achieve these objectives, then 12 months later, you're probably not gonna hit. A lot of them, unfortunately. what I like about what you were saying is that even with these objectives, you can set'em on a time horizon when you want to

Manish Kapur: 34:39

Um,

Harv Nagra: 34:40

Next three months, next 12 months, next three years, and so on. then you're breaking it down and then also setting deadlines for each of those. And then the ops person can be coordinating these sessions, but also prompting individuals to provide the information they need at the right times,

Manish Kapur: 34:55

absolutely, and I think this is where the most senior persons got a role to play because they were present at the workshop. They heard what the actions were gonna be and who's gonna be responsible for them. And they can also support. The ops person to ensure that they get the backing to be a little bit, pushy at times to say, come on, we've got a deadline here. We really need to do this. And not to just push that deadline back, but maybe find alternative ways to ease their business as usual workload so they can focus on the, goals that were set without the workshop.

Harv Nagra: 35:23

Yep. this workshop was not a vanity exercise. It's not something you're doing for fun or to waste people's time You are trying to do something important. So I think that point about getting the MD or CEO on side, and that's maybe where a chat needs to happen between, CEO, finance director, ops director, and say, we all need to be speaking from the same HIM sheet and, cEO, we need you to say this to make sure people are taking this seriously and making time for it. Right.

Manish Kapur: 35:50

yeah, absolutely.

Harv Nagra: 35:51

think where things can fall apart is, unfortunately, if the ops director has to play bad cop all the time, that's very draining, right? You're chasing people on time sheets and then you're chasing senior leaders on and kind of nudging forward their initiatives and that can become just really frustrating. So make sure you get the support.

Manish Kapur: 36:08

It is, but you're right. You know that workshop is taken a day out of your most senior people. And you can't just do that just on a whim. I. And it has to have that clear objective and some clear goals. And you're right, it's not a vanity exercise. It is there to decide on where the business is going. And we said this right from the very beginning, the difference between the agencies that do have fast growth and do really well are the ones that do plan in the future. And that's difficult to do when you're trying to fit it in within business as usual. The only way to do that is in a workshop and you've gotta take it seriously.'cause this is the future of the business and in fact the future of their roles and everyone else in the company. So it is a really important exercise, and you're right, ops people are seen as a bad cop. And they've got enough challenges trying to get people to fill out time sheets, let alone trying to ensure that the leadership team is following through on their actions from that workshop. you know, Everyone knows is important and no one does it. To be malicious. They just get busy and having someone very senior to support to say, well actually ops person, if you're struggling with an individual, just let me know and maybe I'll have a word with them and see if I can ease their workloads so they can hit their goals and do the action points that were allocated to them.

Harv Nagra: 37:12

right, so if anyone's keeping track, we're on session seven out of seven which you called the wrap up and commitment. So Manish, please talk us through what that is.

Manish Kapur: 37:20

Yeah, so this kind of follows up from the, the staying on track and this is like a, 30 minute towards the end and it's just really a bit about recapping the strategic goals and just making sure that everyone's aligned, particularly on operational focus. And I think this is important for us people, is that you want to leave that workshop knowing that you've brought up what the operational challenges will be. You kind of use that kind of red thread methodology about these are the things that we need to have in place to make sure that we hit our goals from start to finish. And everyone else in the leadership understands that and they're also willing to support you. On it, it could be as important as saying, well, we've decided that we need to get this kind of tool in to allow us to do that, and somebody else in another tool doesn't get it. They give up their budget to allow the ops person to get the tool that they need that's gonna allow the agency to hit their strategic goals. that's the sort of alignment that we're talking about here. I think also just asking each leader to state one commitment they're gonna make to support the delivery. it's a great little thing to do, is just to say, for instance, I'm sure the key one's gonna be is I'm gonna make time within my day to ensure that I achieve my action points would be a good one. Or I'm gonna support this person to ensure they do that. Or I'm gonna go out and find out more information regarding this blocker that we might have to prevent that that doesn't become a barrier. I think also just to agree on the next steps, so it's really important to have a workshop output document within about five days. This will be very much up to the ops person to do that because a lot's happened within the day and then someone's gonna be taken down what's been written down the boards taking shots of any kind of mood boards with stickies that have been set up. Putting that in a bit of a document, a bit of a summary is quite key to say this was our overall objective. These are the points that we agreed across all those different sessions. These are the actions that we are gonna take and these are the actual actions that individuals are gonna take with the deadlines attached to those. So everyone is clear because you don't really know. And I'm sure that when you finish that workshop, everyone's brains gonna be pretty fried because it's quite fast paced. There's a lot that we managed to get through within that day to have some document at the end that summarize it so everyone's clear on what was actually achieved and what needs to be done next. also just having some accountabilities check-ins as well. And it's really ops just going up to the individuals just to check in. Are you okay? Are you gonna get these things done? And we mentioned this a bit earlier, and to try and avoid. There being any opportunity for that person's actions not to get done. And that's where ops can come in and start to support them and go, what can I do to try and ease your workload to ensure that you can, do the actions that align for you. Follow up any sort of planning sessions. So pre-book, any sessions thereafter. So the workshop is just the beginning, that was just really an opportunity to get everyone's ideas down on paper. But now it's really about making sure that we deliver on that plan. And so any of the follow-up sessions need to be pre-planned. And it's like, we know it's really difficult to get senior people together. Of course, there's not gonna be a full day, it might be an hour, it might be two hours, but they all need to be pre-planned and to ensure that those people are available. The last thing you want to do is you've got a meeting arranged for two months time only to have that meeting and find out that one key person is on holiday. So all those things need to be in the diary in advance. as an optional, you can have some follow up half day workshop. You may decide that, there were so many things that we were trying to get done that we're not going to achieve particularly the longer term. And so you may decide that there's so much to discuss. Maybe it's worth having another half day workshop just to think about the longer term goals, because maybe we spent so much time talking about the sort of short medium, and maybe that was just enough for us to be focusing on, and now we're thinking, well, actually we didn't have enough time to think about the longer term. And maybe have another half day workshop where you run the exercise again, but maybe not so full on.

Harv Nagra: 40:47

All right, Manish. So some of us might work in businesses that have multiple entities, whether they are domestic. You've got a kind of a network of agencies or your agency has offices in different countries. That was the case in my former agency and I found that only added to the challenge of coordination and momentum on initiatives like these which kind of slows down the sign off process, but also the work getting done. Because when you're trying to coordinate people that are in multiple countries, first of all, that's a challenge, right? And then getting people to agree to things when there might be local market nuances as well. That becomes a challenge. So I guess a few questions there. How do you get people joined up and keep momentum if you are working in a multi-entity?

Manish Kapur: 41:33

Yeah, it's interesting because we know that even in a single office, this is gonna be a challenge. As we've already discussed, where you've got multiple offices around the world and even two, it becomes a lot harder. I think it's really important, first and foremost, that if you're gonna want to have change. Beyond just one office that the people that are involved in are also involved in the workshop. And I know that adds additional expense because there's obviously flight and accommodation as well as their time. But it's really important because the idea around that workshop is to get everyone together and to have a common goal. You set the objective right from the beginning, but also within the workshop, people have an opportunity to air their concerns and what may or may not work in their local market. And a good example is probably at my previous agency, which was a very large brand design agency and they had full studios. There weren't offices, there were full studios in London, Amsterdam, Singapore, Shanghai, New York. And so that was a challenge to make sure that everyone was aligned and to ensure that also everyone was doing the same thing because this was about the group. It wasn't about any individual office, but there were the nuances. For starters, Shanghai worked at double the pace that London did. So, some of the changes that we might wanna have in London were more feasible than they may been say in Shanghai, because just by the nature of the speed they work, there was also quality issues as well as well, because where London may spend a good two to three weeks on a brief, in Shanghai it was more around getting the workout quicker. Of course, quality was important, but not to the same degree that maybe London had. Budgets might be an issue, what they're willing to pay in one market versus the other. But the key thing that was important for the agency that I was at was that the chairperson was a real stickler for operations. And I suppose that's what made my job a lot easier because ultimately they said that operationally the businesses had to work the same way. And we would have a situation where we needed to have a designer to go and work in another studio. So a designer might be required to go from London to Singapore because they were unable to get a talent, particularly when they're working on say, a, a spirit brand that required a certain skillset. And so we would have that person fly over and work for that team for about a month or two months. Great opportunity. I wish I was a lot younger when I was working at that agency to get a chance like that, but they would have the opportunity to go and work in another studio. But the moment they sat at that desk in Singapore, they'll be able to get started. They weren't having to worry about, do I understand the ways of working, the mythology, the briefing, the systems, it was absolutely identical and it was consistent. It didn't matter if you were going to Singapore or Shanghai, New York or Amsterdam. It was all consistent. And that was predominantly led by the chairman who said I needed to be consistent, so I understand what's going on across the group. Now, the only way that we could have that and to ensure that things were consistent was to bring in people early enough and get their involvement. So at a workshop, it would have the most senior people present. But if you are working in an agency, has multiple offices, the chances are that within your role, you've got counterparts. So it may be that you might be the operations manager in London, and there happens to be an operations manager in New York. And then so then you start to share ideas with them. And it might be because the actual workshop was in London, the London ops manager attended, and then they feed back. To the ops manager who's in New York to get their ideas and say, look, these are the kind of things we agreed. What do you think are gonna be slightly the stumbling blocks? What are the areas that you might find challenging? You are agreeing with them in advance and working with them to ensure that it stays consistent across multiple offices. A lot of it's just down to community communication, but I would say initially, if you've got multiple offices, get the most senior people within that workshop so they can be aligned. They can also highlight any issues that they might have. cause the last thing you want to do is to leave the workshop with some clear objective and action plans only to then find out that another region can't do it. And then you're like, well now what? So get them involved a lot sooner. If it's someone that's maybe not as senior, then that person who's the counterpart can then feed back what the goals were from that workshop and get their view on it and see if there's any challenges that need to be dealt with.

Harv Nagra: 45:21

I love that you're underlying the point on consistency. There's always the market context things that are gonna differ, but for any agency that's trying to scale with multiple entities, I think reporting really slows down. If everyone's Doing their own thing in their own systems, in their own way. It's chaotic and from an operational point as well. It just makes your growth so much more efficient if you're joined up on that and

Manish Kapur: 45:43

Absolutely. Yeah.

Harv Nagra: 45:45

and if you ever wanna sell in future, I think it becomes a challenge if everyone in the group is doing their own

Manish Kapur: 45:51

Yeah.

Harv Nagra: 45:51

becomes really difficult for that process to go forward.

Manish Kapur: 45:54

Because you wanna use the power of the group, and so you wanna be consistent. One of the reasons why we used to send designer across the world is that we had to have consistent one of the work. The work, because one client say in London, had referred us to another client in New York.

Harv Nagra: 46:07

Mm-hmm.

Manish Kapur: 46:07

if New York hadn't delivered for them, it would have a knock on effect, not just for that office, but also the relationship that London had with that individual. So it was really important that things were consistent and you managed to obtain that quality.

Harv Nagra: 46:18

So Manish we've talked through this format today of running these workshops and how to drive these projects forward and make sure you're evolving. But, someone listening to this might feel that, okay, this is a lot for me to take on and I need support. Is this something that you support your clients with as well?

Manish Kapur: 46:34

Absolutely. I think it goes back to the fact that people are busy. And to have focus on that and having someone externally can help because I don't come with the baggage that they might have as running things day to day. I'll come into an agency and my prime focus is on that particular, that task, that goal. And so there are times when I'm actually asked to run the workshops so that other people can be actually, involved and contribute without having to worry about facilitation. Also ensuring that the end of it, that the goals are actually set so people have got some clear actions. And then also I'm doing the follow ups. So I'm the one who's saying, how you got that done? Are you struggling with anything? Is anything that you need sorted? And it just takes the pressure off. And of course I always work in a collaborative way anyway, so there'll be other people within the agencies that I'm working with, but they appreciate having someone else who can take some of the workload off them.

Harv Nagra: 47:19

I could have benefited from that support, so. Excellent. So Manish before we go, is there anything new that you're seeing or hearing from agency folks? Give us a bit of an

Manish Kapur: 47:30

Well, I don't think you can go to any agency event without talking about ai. But one thing that's not being talked about, who's gonna own the AI initiatives with the agencies and personally, I might be biased, but I think ops people should. And I think, there's an opportunity for the ops person within any agency to take the lead because there's lots of people trying things out. I'll go into agencies and they might have, half a dozen note takers that they're using. And of course it's great to experiment, but someone's gonna decide, well, which is the note taker that the agency uses. And there might be other things as far as regarding copy or, meeting schedules, a whole load of tools that are out there. And I think ops have got a really important role to play to ensure that their agencies has an AI strategy. To ensure they know, well, what AI tools are we gonna be using? How are we gonna actually embed them? Also to check the legal implications on it as well. So, I hear a lot of agencies talking about ai, but I'm not really getting any clarity about who's owning the AI initiatives within those agencies. And I personally think this is a perfect role for operations to step in to talk to the senior team and say, look, of course, I wanna find out what other people's opinions are on tools for ai, but I think I should own this to make sure that the agency's got a methodology and set up principles and all that kind of stuff to make sure that we're using the right tools in the right way.

Harv Nagra: 48:44

Yeah. those are very operational challenges,

Manish Kapur: 48:47

Yeah.

Harv Nagra: 48:47

guidelines for uses intellectual property and legality concerns, stuff like that. So it absolutely should sit with operations. I

Manish Kapur: 48:55

Yeah.

Harv Nagra: 48:55

Manish, if anybody wants to look you up and reach out to you, what's the best place to find you.

Manish Kapur: 49:01

Well, I'm quite active on LinkedIn, so connect with me there. I also have a weekly newsletter that I send out, nine o'clock on a on a Monday and also the site. So that's manishkapur.co.

Harv Nagra: 49:12

Excellent. Well thank you very much for that, Manish. Super helpful today and I'm gonna pencil you in for the next birthday episode.

Manish Kapur: 49:20

forward to it.

Harv Nagra: 49:21

much for being back with us today.

Manish Kapur: 49:23

You're welcome. Thank you. I.

49:24

Hey all. I hope you found that as useful as I did in my case. I used to find that I was quite good at running a workshop and getting ideas generated, but found that when we all got back to our desks that things would slow down and fall off people's priorities. So the biggest takeaway here for me today was that if these projects all sit with the ops director, then you can be the one that's driving them forward. And while you're counting on people to do some homework to supply you with the answers or materials you need, or to join meetings and contribute their ideas, you're not asking people that might be client facing to lead the initiative. I really appreciated what Manish was saying about the multi-entity coordination as well. If you're part of a group, then it's usually really important for a variety of reasons, reporting efficiency, software subscriptions, employee experience, or even a future agency sale that you're joined up in the way that you work. But of course, nuances that might be market specific are okay once again. If you're not signed up for the handbook newsletter, you're missing the opportunity to get the notes from these conversations in your inbox. So sign up now at scoro.com/podcast. You'll find the form at the bottom of the page. And if you enjoyed today's conversation, please share the episode with someone else that would appreciate it, and join the conversation on LinkedIn. When you see Manish and I posting about this episode, I'll be back with the next one soon. Thanks very much.