74: The Power of Connection: How Community Heals What Divorce Breaks

Quinn and Britta Jo sit down after Britta’s first Stay or Go retreat to explore what women are truly craving—real connection.

From Brené Brown’s words—“we are neurobiologically hardwired for connection”—to stories of women finding sisterhood in the messy middle of divorce, this conversation dives into what happens when women finally stop trying to “do it all alone.”

Together, they unpack:

• Why the absence of connection always leads to suffering—and what that really means.
• How patriarchal and capitalist systems have broken women’s bonds with one another—and how we’re rebuilding them.
• What healthy female community actually looks like (and how to find or create your own).
• The science behind social support—why we’re literally stronger when we have someone by our side.
• Lessons from the Stay or Go retreat: bunk beds, laughter, tears, and the magic of being seen, heard, and held by other women.

Quinn and Britta reveal that connection isn’t about rescuing or fixing anyone—it’s about witnessing one another in truth. This episode is a love letter to sisterhood, softness, strength, and the healing web that holds us when we fall.

💬 Quote of the Episode:

Connection is: "The energy that exists between people when they feel seen, heard, and valued; when they can give and receive without judgment, and when they derive sustenance and strength from the relationship.” — Brené Brown

Listen if you’re:

• Craving depth, belonging, and community after divorce
• Wondering why independence alone doesn’t feel fulfilling
• Ready to build (or rebuild) meaningful female friendships
• A woman reclaiming her own way of knowing, healing, and rising

Links:

The Stay or Go Community

Strong Ground by Brene Brown

IG Reel (mentioned in the episode)

PostDivorceGlowUp.com

Email: quinn@postdivorceglowup.com

Transcript

0:49

Hello lover. I'm looking at my bestie Brita Joe. We are coming off of her first retreat with the stay or go community, and we wanted to sit down with each other and do a download, an exploration about what we've learned about community through the process of deciding to stay or go in a marriage, as well as the lessons for those women who have chosen to move on in their lives and ended their marriages. So welcome, Britta. I'm so glad we get to do this. Me too. And thank you Quinn for taking the reins on this episode. We mm-hmm. Chatted beforehand. Y'all. I am a little bit. Recovering from just such a big experience. It was huge. It really was a huge experience. Plus we're, I am in some flux with, I just started taking a DHD medication a month ago. It was going amazing, but experiencing some insomnia. So I'm having to change my dose when I'm taking it. And I told Quinn before we got on this call, like the, the non diagnose, but definitely there, I'm pretty sure it's, it's what I have, A DHD is very strong today. Mm-hmm. So I asked for her to take the reigns on this episode to guide us through it. And y'all, she has created an incredible episode that I'm really excited to get to. Just, I get to be the one that gets to sit back and she's gonna take us through it. So. I got you. Yeah, so when we go back to that weekend, it was a week ago now, and what was revealed for us is how deeply women both need and thrive in community. You and I have had some other kinds of community, but this, this was nothing like, nothing like this. Next level. Yes. Next level, yes. Okay. So as you know, I am reading Brene Brown's new book, strong Ground, and she talks about authenticity. She talks about connection. She said this thing that I think was a little bit provocative, and I wanna start here. So strong ground on page 22. She says, we are neurobiologically, hardwired for connection. And in the absence of connection, there is always suffering. And that just hit me. Whoa. That is hitting me too. Yeah. We're hardwired for connection. And in the absence of that, there is always suffering. Always. Okay. And that's a big claim. That's a big claim. It's a huge claim, right. But if anybody can make that claim and back it up, my money's on Brene, right? I'm like, bring it. Show me Brene. I am here with you. Let's go. I know. Amen. So I was thinking about. The loss of connection throughout my life and questioning has there always been suffering when I have felt a loss of connection, whether it was childhood trauma, things that happened on the playground or with my parents, whether it was in my marriage, through my divorce, leaving my faith community, and for me, I can say yes, I see a pattern of suffering from disconnection, lack of connection. I wanted to hear it from your point of view. Well, first thing that comes to mind is when you're saying this, this is the, the complexity that a lot of women experience when they're like, I wanna get divorced, but then there's grief as well. Yeah. Which would support this idea that even when it's a disconnection that you want mm-hmm. There is still a form of suffering, which I have never called it suffering before. I've always called it like a grief, because it's a type of death. Mm-hmm. And with an ending with a death, there are these complex feelings of loss. So I'm wondering if, like she said in the disconnection, it is inherently a type of loss. And you know, my initial reactions were to think, well, if it's a disconnection from something healthy. I don't think I've suffered as much as I've gained. Right. That was my initial thought. Mm-hmm. Uh, but if I really track back through, no, in every single instance, even in the instances where like my divorce, I knew I was gaining my connection with myself. Mm-hmm. I was losing the connection with my partner, but I was gaining a safer environment for a connection with myself. Yet still there was suffering there in the loss of that, um, the faith community definitely like just, uh, the feeling of support that there was, you know, people that had, that I could call that if I needed, you know, if something went wrong, there was a network or a chain of people that were looking out for me. That was a, a piece of suffering that. When we, when I left Mormonism, I felt, who do I call now if my car breaks down? If my, like, who, who's there for me? You know? Yeah. Um, and then in the disintegration of my family too. Mm-hmm. A lot of suffering there. Um, and you're talking about your family of origin. Yes. Is that right? Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. Um, and it's making me, I'm so glad we're having this episode because I think obviously we coach through our own lenses. We're humans. We have human brains. We are never gonna be robotic. Like neutral. Totally neutral. Yeah. We try as much as possible when we're coaching clients to do that, but the work that I shared through. My podcast that you share through your podcast comes from our lens and our experiences. And I would say that I think because we had to kind of go through so much suffering and the loss of those, I think we may have idealized, at least I know I did the independent part of like, oh, but I can do it on my own. Like the goal is to not need community. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, the self-sufficient, I'm gonna be able to do it. And you and I really did do that for a lot of our journey. And we're getting to see now just how much that is optional, that you don't like the leaps that can be made when you don't try to do it all alone. So yeah. Suffering. I think in every instance, all my breakups, right? Every breakup there was suffering. Yeah. When I was dating and there is. Good reason for it, especially as we learn about attachment styles. That's what it brought to mind, that even when I've ended romantic partnerships that I wanted to, that felt like a good move. I knew that there would be a period where I would still crave that connection along for that person. And I would idealize look at the shiny parts. Yes. Nostalgia. Yes. Yes. And that was something that I came to understand and expect. And I like how you questioned the word suffering, because that is, that's a pretty heavy word, and so that is a word she does not define. But I do want to define connection because that as a researcher, this is a definition that she came up with based on her research. Okay, so if you have her book, it's page 2 57 to two 60. This definition connection is the energy that exists between people when they feel seen, heard, and valued. When they can give and receive without judgment, and when they derive sustenance and strength from the relationship. Oof. So if we define connection like that, because I think our examples of connection where we're like, no, it was good that we lost this connection. This isn't the connection we were talking about. No, you're exactly right. And what it exposed for me is that you can be experiencing massive suffering in dynamics where it looks like there should be connection. Yeah. You are not experiencing that kind of a definition of connection. So. Just like all of a sudden framed out for me where I'm like, oh, my whole life, for a lot of it has been suffering. Mm-hmm. Even within the faith community. Yes. Even within a marriage. Even within an intact family. Family. Because if you define connection in this way mm-hmm. I have only experienced that kind of connection since leaving those constructs, those relationships, those cultures that really were telling me to invest in a more, what I would consider performative. Mm-hmm. Connection or a connection of convenience. You know, maybe we're not really seeing each other, but we're both getting, you know, basic needs or things that we need met from each other. I'm playing a role. You're playing a role. Wow. Yeah. So for the purpose of this conversation, I want to be clear as to the type of community and connection that we're talking about, because just being in community is not necessarily going to create connection, and what we're really after is this connection. Yeah. So I'm going to read the definition one more time before we dive further in. So connection is the energy that exists between people when they feel seen, heard and valued. When they can give and receive without judgment, and when they derive sustenance and strength from the relationship. Damn right. Yeah, it's, it lands just so much, like it just lands for me because I, as you read it, I'm like, oh, I know what that is. Yes. I, in our relationship in the community mm-hmm. We, you know, we saw that so big in the retreat. We just saw how much, like it really is real in the community. What we see in the community when translated into women in real life together. It's the same. And then in my partnership and realizing, wow, how much we lived lives. I mean, how many years, Quinn, did you live without this? Oh, decades. Five decades. Yeah. Only five decades. The next five are gonna be awesome. Yes. Yes. So, final point that I wanna just say on this, that my brain is hooked on mm-hmm. Is the whole, yes, there is always suffering in the loss of some kind of, you know, quote, I'm putting it in air quotes, connection. Right. But this goes back to the like short-term pain that so many women wanna avoid when it comes to considering divorce, right? Mm-hmm. Like for the long-term gain of really you, you have to give up the, you have to go through the short term suffering of losing those kind of, I would say, on like a spectrum, in my view. Like a lesser type of connection. Mm-hmm. Well, it doesn't even fit with this definition of connection. Yeah. What would we even, it doesn't even fit you le you leave that construct. Yeah. For the opportunity connection. Opportunity. Need to create connection. Yeah. Yeah. So I really want us to stay focused on, we're talking about a very specific kind connection and we can't even call what you're experiencing previously. Connection. Like, no, this, nope. No, what you had, what we had that was not connection, was not connection. Okay. Yeah. All right. So I want to talk about how our spiritual traditions are gathering traditionally of women was more about embodiment and ritual. Myth tellings, cyclical awareness because women are these beautiful, cyclical, wild creatures with our menstrual cycles, our life transitions, creating life, giving life, menopause, becoming the crone from the maiden, the the mother, the crone. We have all of these beautiful cycles in our life. Yeah, and I think it was when you read women who Run with the Wolves, that you started to appreciate more of that tradition of Yes, women to telling myths and sending the younger generations. Really important information through those stories. What was that experience like for you? Oh my God, I remember the first time, I mean, her first chapter is life changing the way she speaks, the richness of the words, it felt like meeting my mother, like my true mother for the first time, right? Mm-hmm. Like here was this, um, I, I have to say too, having been raised in religion my whole life, there was my first like truly experiencing religion in the framework and the language of my soul. Mm. Which, if you think, you know, we were raised in a patriarchal, very heavily patriarchal religion. Yeah. Only writings. I mean, the Bible's only writings from men. All written from men. All of the prophets, all of the apostles are men. So everything, you're listening to the conference talks, you're reading all through the lens of men and their language. Yeah, yeah. And to, to dive into there was like, oh, here is a type of richness, soul knowing, connection. Mm-hmm. That I've never felt before. Yes. And you've mentioned when we've talked in the past, that many of us come from these broken maternal lines where we have been disconnected either on purpose or accidentally just through the systems that we live in from our mothers, our sisters, our grandmothers, because of this patriarchal rule that decides when and how women get to come together. Yeah. Yeah. And I just more and more and more I see us both developing this deep knowledge of what is lost. Mm-hmm. And a ferocity around reclaiming and protecting it. Yes. I, I, I see that growing a lot in US as we're now.'cause we didn't know that this was missing. No, no. In fact, Mormons, they, the elders of the church or whatnot, they, they love to tell the women You are part of the largest women's organization. Organization in world, the world. What they don't mention is that you are always being overseen by men. You're assigned to check on other women through the visiting teaching program and that information gets filtered back up. To the men, everything gets reported back to the men, which breaks trust among the women. There was never a place where I felt like I could meet with other Mormon women and I was a part of homeschool groups and mothers groups, and we would read talks by the men, and a lot of times we would keep each other in check when someone had, you know, a quote unquote faith crisis or whatnot. We were there to help keep them in check and so to bring them back. I feel like I did not have, within my largest community or within a woman's organization, I did not have connection. Mm-hmm. You've also mentioned how, for you. In women's groups or among women there, you have felt relational aggression, which I thought was a really powerful word. Can you say more about that? Yeah. Um, in general, for me growing up, um, I, I, you know, I was told by my mother it was because I was beautiful. I was pretty, and so I always had this just energy with other women that was not coming from me, but that definitely came from them of this competitive, you know, you are a challenger for other men's attention. And I really never, honestly, going through high school, I had like one close friend. That was it. Mm-hmm. I never fit into groups of women. I often felt, uh, teased and excluded in groups with women, and I never really understood why. Mm-hmm. Um, it was when we found human design and we looked up manifesters, you know? Mm-hmm. Just that concept, that idea of like, oh, you have a closed and repelling aura was one of the most comforting things for me to learn because then I realized, can we just stop right there, Britta, you have a closed and repelling aura. I know, like, like out in the world when people don't know me on the podcast, nobody would guess that. But that has really been my experience with women in the world is mm-hmm. Women that get around me, that see me, that don't know me often come across. Pretty defensive towards me. And once I learned, and who knows if that's real or not, right? But it gave me a thought that allowed me to move to the world going, oh, this is just what is, and I'm going to put them at ease. And that was really when my work changed. You saw that shift in me? Mm-hmm. I took an approach that was like, I'm the one in charge here, and I'm going to put other women at ease in my presence. They're going to know I'm not here to fight you. I'm not competing. I, the man in the room is not my focus, and I'm not trying to steal him from you. I mean, I lost my girlfriends at like 14 over a boy. Like it just was something that I dealt with my whole life, feeling like in groups of women, there were cliques. I never fit into those cliques and feeling like I was just kind of the loner that floated. I was nice to everybody, but I, I just didn't seem to have my crew of girls. And then I went to college and got married, you know, at 19 and same thing at college, did not find a group of women, so I've always had a, yeah, just a, just a, like, I don't really know where I fit with women. And then in the church, you know, you're just so busy building the kingdom. Right, but not, you know, in air quotes, there's not really a lot of like, here's me, this is who I am as much as like, here's the work we're all doing together. Mm-hmm. So you're working together, but you're not really knowing each other. Yes. So I think you had this perfect storm. All of these negative messages about women aren't going to like you. And then you had evidence of that losing girlfriends at age 14 and onward and being in this competitive atmosphere. And I think Mormonism breeds comp competition. It's so competitive. Among women. Amongst women. Yeah. Yeah.'cause it's a patriarchy. Yes, the patriarchy. And also we're all told that we need to marry a return missionary. And there are only so many of those. Mm-hmm. And so there's this fierce competition to get to the top kingdom of heaven. Well, and your only role is to become a nurturer and a mother. How are you gonna do that if you don't have a man? So it just was not a really, it it was not a space of female connection growing up. No, it wasn't. No. My, my own mother showed a lot of jealousy and competitiveness with me. Oh yeah. Yeah. Looking back over my trauma, the core wound, like there definitely was relational aggression with my mother growing up, which is an unspoken thing that many women experience. Mm. You know, when you, yeah. Take different paths from your mother or you do different things. Makes me think of a client, both Quinn and I got to see on our way back from the retreat, whose own mother mm-hmm. Struggles because she's actually left her marriage and is doing different things. And you can see how her mother at times, who has not left her own marriage, not made her own decisions, feels that jealousy and frustration. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And there is a reason for our society creating an atmosphere where women don't trust other women. And you sent me an Instagram reel. Yeah. That we'll connect in the show notes. Yes. And tell me and our listeners about that reel and what hit you about that. Yeah, so I'm definitely gonna have to go down the rabbit hole of this woman in the reel because she obviously like leading retreats. I love the message she's sharing in this reel, but she just highlights that when women are fighting other women, all that's left is seeking the attention and the admiration of men. So anytime something is painful or scratchy or there's friction, we need to ask who benefits, who benefits from this story? I did not grow up with the same story of competition among women. I believe my, some of my sisters did, but I have this belief that women love me and everybody wants to be my friend. And so that's the world where I live. So if someone doesn't wanna be my friend, I am always surprised. So, yeah. I love you so much. Yeah. And I think that's it. That's the world I want. I, the world that was being talked about in that Instagram reel is what I felt like I was raised with. And then she contrasts it at the end, right? Of like the world for when, when women support women, and it is mm-hmm. What you are describing, Quinn, it's a whole different world. And why that reel stood out to me is because it was like, oh, this is what we, what I am learning and seeing from the community and the retreat is I was like, oh, wow. No. This is what the world can look like when women have got each other's backs, when we support each other, when the goal is. Our experiences, our lives and supporting each other in those rather than how do we help each other manage to get a man that seems like such a low bar, whatcha gonna do with your life? I wanna find me a man. Yeah. But along with what I wrote in the, um, you know, the, the tying yourself in knots over leaving the good guy, right? Yeah. It is this centering of men Yes. Of your life being framed through their experiences. What are they experiencing? So it is realizing that is still a huge part of a lot of our lives in ways we, it's like the Kool-Aid. We just are swimming in, drank when we were little. Like we just don't realize it's there. Yeah. I think that's fair. Yeah. Alright, so I want to transition to talking about how community in general, so we're not speaking specifically about connection, though. Connection can be part of a community. I wanna talk about what science knows about community and how it makes life better. And there are a couple of recent studies that were so exciting to me. So there was an experiment where participants were given a hand grip force task. Do you know what a hand grip? Yeah. Like exercise. So you're just like holding on as tight as you can or you know, pressure and they could measure objectively. How difficult is this task? So before, or as the participants performed the task, they were exposed to a queue and it was either a photograph of a support figure, a positive support figure, like you can do this or way to go, versus a picture of a stranger. And this was to simulate social support. So what they found is that having a support figure increased participants' physical output, which means that they were able to squeeze harder. And paradoxically, despite the harder exertion, participants perceived the trials as less difficult when the support queue was present. Wow. And it got even the, the correlation, the effect was stronger. The harder the trials became. So when you perceive that you have support, you work harder, you suffer less, and the more difficult the task, the stronger the effect. And divorce wow is notoriously one of the most difficult, most yes, traumatizing tasks a woman can face. And what's interesting is that the support, it didn't take away the task. You still had to, you know, squeeze, do the hand squeezing thing, but it did increase your strength, it reduces suffering and is a supportive place to land when you feel like you can't go on. It gives more. Wow. And this was just from, it wasn't even a, was it a supportive person they knew or was it just a picture of somebody saying, you can do it? It was a supportive person that they knew. I believe that they knew. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Yeah. I was like, man, if it was just random people. Right. But no, it has to be. Yes. It has to be someone you actually have a connection with. Yes. Yes. Wow. It reminded me of a story we heard at the retreat of Elle, we're just going to use first initials. Mm-hmm. And she told me that October, 2023, she knew she needed to leave her husband. Really bad situation, in my estimation, from what I've heard. But she reached October, 2024 and realized nothing had changed. His behavior had not gotten better, it had only gotten worse. She hadn't taken any of the steps to extract herself from the marriage. She did a one-on-one, a 90 minute. With you. Yeah. Decided to join your community and seeing her this October was this momentous occasion for her because she has now filed her divorce. She's working her way through the experience with the support of a community. Yeah. And was, she was stuck before. It was too hard before. And the only thing, and she said that changed was she had that conversation with you and got her ass in the community. Yeah. And she was vibrant. Oh my God. I am so in love with her. You know you are in love with her. I know you are so in love with her. It was, uh, she, the way her, her face, her eyes glowed just full of life. And y'all, she is in the thick. It like we are not through the divorce. We just got on a weather of the week call to tell us, like their discovery came through and it launched a whole nother like emotional immaturity tantrum from her husband and all of the narcissistic emotional abuse and manipulation. Mm-hmm. So, as you're saying this, I'm just like, wow. Yeah, we, this is not just a study that like you and I have actually seen. Mm-hmm. How much having these women in the community with that, with, with, you know, we'll use l as an example, having other women witnessing her going through it. Nobody can carry that load for you. Nobody can squeeze the thing. Yeah. Nobody can walk through it every single step with you. But it absolutely has. I, I would agree. She has gone through with more strength and she has perceived herself differently. Yes. Going through it. Yes. And that is so key, what you said, that perception, which brings me to this next study in the realm of challenge appraisal. So deciding if something is overwhelming or doable. So in 2024, a study looked at how social support and social identity shifts, whether people interpret a situation as a challenge, something growth oriented and manageable, versus a threat which is overwhelming. And social support tends to push the appraisal towards challenge. Rather than threat of which makes the thing feel more doable. Yes. Right? Yes. And we saw this time and time again. Yeah. As the women in the thick of it are looking to the women who have gone through it, who are saying, you can do this. I know this is hard, whether they're choosing to stay or to go, because at the retreat, not everyone was planning to go. Yeah, yeah. This was not, let's dump on our husbands fast. It was, we're here for each other in whatever situation we find ourselves. Yeah. And I mean. I will say, because there tends to be more women going, and I just mm-hmm. Have to say, I think that is a sign of where our culture is at, where the system is at. And I don't see that as a, when the patriarchy wants to point to us as women and kind of rah us, I'm like, no, no, you can turn that finger back at you. This is what patriarchy has gotten you. Mm-hmm. You know, it has gotten a world where patriarchy has taught men not to be empathic and connected, and now women are saying no more. Mm-hmm. And they're finding that through sisterhood and connection, and they're leaving and they're building their own lives. Because I would say a lot of it was having the freedom to express their frustration around their ex-husbands, around their current husbands around, which I think is actually so healing. That is another piece of the community that has been. It like helps you to start shedding all that centering of men's emotions and their experiences and the caretaking of them. But you are so right that what's beautiful about the community, and this was something that surprised me because it is like, how are you gonna fit all these women in these different periods of life? You know, maybe making different path choices into one community. And what we saw was that I think the heart of my work, yes, it's done through the lens of considering divorce, but the heart of it is really coming to know yourself. Mm-hmm. Loving yourself, trusting yourself, and that type of a sisterhood. Applies in all areas of your life. So yes, we saw that with women who were staying that are on a different track, still feeling totally loved, totally welcome, seen. Mm-hmm. And appreciated in their exact experience of the journey. And even though their journey's different, it's still providing frameworks that everybody else is benefiting from. Yeah. Because all these women getting divorced, getting to watch one of our, you know, women in the community going through the process with her husband in more of a stay format. That's the very stuff that in the future, if they wanna have a partnership, they need to know as well. So there's this like trans sectional amazingness that we've noticed in the community. Mm-hmm. Of you don't all have to be going through the exact same thing to be learning from each other. Especially when we saw, you know, we have a few women in the community, one in particular that joined the community after she'd already gotten divorced. She was someone I'd worked with one-on-one. Mm-hmm. And seeing how much her being in the community this year and feeling, you know, she's not necessarily coaching or getting support around considering divorce anymore, but she is in life post-divorce. Mm-hmm. And being around women who get it. That's the connection piece. Yes. They see you, they know what you've been through. They know what you're, you know, they know that struggle intimately. Yes. How, um, supportive and protective that's been for her, even though her entire journey in the community has been post-divorce. Yes. Yes. And something that is kind of a common thread. Between deciding, going through the divorce and post-divorce is a sense of isolation and loneliness that can come up. And I thought it was interesting when our Surgeon General, his name's Vik Murthy under Obama and Biden his. Biggest work that he wanted to leave with the American people was this advisory report entitled Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation, the US Surgeon General's Advisory on the healing effects of social connection and community, and he talks about the true tangible, physical effects of isolation and loneliness on our bodies and how it raises the risk for premature death by up to 29%. It has similar risks to our health as obesity and regular smoking, and this is simply being lonely and isolated. So while we're talking a lot about your community specifically, this has implications at. All parts of our life. Yes. Whether you're deciding to stay or go, whether you're going through it, whether it's post-divorce journey, that loneliness and isolation will have physical impacts on your life. And I think that I have seen that in my own life. I've seen it with my children. We moved dozens of times. And the impact on their physical health of feeling like I'm isolated as a homeschool kid in this Mormon community, or I'm feeling really lonely even though my assigned friends through the Mormon, um, used groups, don't use the word ward. Yeah. Groups. They weren't the kind of connection that we're talking about. There are real physical. Challenges that come up from isolation and loneliness. And I think divorce and post-divorce can be some of the most isolating and lonely times of a woman's life. Yes. Yeah. And I, that really was driven home in that we, you know, one of the, the unintended gifts that came with the community was I had two women that had been divorced prior to joining the community, join the community. Mm-hmm. And one ended up staying in, that was the one that was at the retreat. Mm-hmm. And then the other one ended up leaving. And we got to see her though when we, uh, were coming back from the retreat. She's local. Both Quinn and I have coached her one-on-one. Mm-hmm. And sitting down with her and this beautiful moment where she was like, can I be a part of the community again? Yes. And her talking about how, you know. Even she's, she's out. She even has a partner and yet she is still missing this type of deep connection. And she even shared how post-divorce, her friends that were married, their husbands who were her friends when she was married, told their yes, told their wives to stop hanging out with her because they were worried she would influence them. Yeah. Which side note, she definitely will. I remember when I got divorced and all my girlfriends that were still married were like, that looks really great. I mean, I wasn't even intentionally influencing them. They were just noticing how fucking great my life was. And they were like, man, that looks awesome. So. I get it. All these husbands being like, don't go hang out with the divorce babes.'cause then you'll actually respect yourself and want something more motherfucker. Yes. Ah. But her losing those friendships, like you said, you know? Mm-hmm. Perfect example of women not having each other's backs, like mm-hmm. Where did the loyalty land? It landed with the husband. Yeah. I can't hang out with you because my husband's afraid that I'm gonna get divorced from him. And so now she gets to go through the next part of her journey without the very friends that may have been cheering her or being like, yeah, you should get divorced. Yes. Like, you need to trust yourself. Now those women leave her to save their own marriages. Ugh. And what just it made me feel, so just, I saw a different level of the community. Right, Quinn? Mm-hmm. It was like, oh wow. Yes. Come, you know, she's someone that has a huge, huge knowledge of mm-hmm. What my processes, the type of work that we do. So it was like, absolutely come back in. You were there in the beginning. Come be a part of it again. And I cannot wait to see over this next, you know, period of time while she's in there. Mm-hmm. How life opens up for her. With this, I'm going through challenging things, but I have women on my side cheering me on. Yes. Because her experience was that she felt like she was good, like she's stable, she's got her partner, but she still struggles with C-P-T-S-D. And so she went to get support from the woman that she's gone to for support her whole life, her mother. And it was very triggering. It was not a healthy kind of support. Mm-hmm. And she realized she needs women who can see her, who can hold her, who can support her, and who are also trying to become more self-aware, managing their own C-P-T-S-D, helping each other. She needed a different kind of support than what she has in her hometown current living situation. Yeah. Yeah. So Britta, I want to shift to talk about your community and kind of community in general, because this isn't something you or I had tried before and you thought about having a community, but what was your hypothesis of using community? You'd only been a one-on-one coach before, so what was your hypothesis? Well, and as we talked about this earlier, I'm like, this is actually really shocking that I started a community. When you think back on my experiences with women on T, you know, my personal experience probably I'm realizing did not lead me to think that this was gonna be, um. I wasn't coming from a personal, like, wow, community's been so amazing for me. I definitely want other women to have it. As much as I was coming from a deep, passionate desire for more women to have more resources and yes, at a price point where more women, women could come in and Exactly. From your growth, you had stepped into this leadership role of I'm not going to wait for people to like me. I'm going to be proactive about welcoming women. Yes. Into my space. Yes. Stepping into to more of the, so I was just ready at that time, more of a leadership role. Plus I remember I talked about this, I was getting kind of the benefits of living in a community in that I was getting a view into all these women's lives. Mm-hmm. And I was getting to live in a world where I was like, women are showing up for themselves. Women are changing the world. I see them. Mm-hmm. So I knew the benefit I was getting there, and I could see that each of my women weren't experiencing that in the same way because all they could see was me. You know, like me standing at the front and peeking into each of their lives. I'm seeing all of them, but they're only seeing me. And then definitely the biggest piece was how, how are more women going? I can't work one-on-one with every single woman who I want to have access to these resources, who I want their lives to change. Mm-hmm. And I, I would come off 90 minutes and I would feel like I want. I don't wanna let these women just disappear, you know? Yeah. Like, I want them to be somewhere where I still get to see them. They still get to be connected. So my hypothesis was, you know, maybe, mm-hmm. Maybe we could have this place that could feel, you know, like a sisterhood. Mm-hmm. And I was hopeful with the right, you remember, I was very intentional about the way that we set it up, because I knew the pitfalls that could come out of community that didn't have very clear. You know, protective boundaries around who's coming in. Um, the level of work perhaps that they've done on themselves, the expectations within the community you've watched over the last year, I've had to kind of like, Hey, this is how we share in, you know, ways that, uh, are appropriate for everybody. A lot of people in the community having C-P-T-S-D and triggers and, yeah, so hypothesis was not so much this will, it was like, I hope this will work because what I'm building in the world needs to have a much bigger impact and it needs to be able to move more quickly and be more accessible. How do we do that? We've got to spread out. Mm-hmm. The way we're, we're sharing and connecting. So, Britta, we've talked about this as a hypothesis, and so hypotheses are right or wrong, supported, not supported by the evidence, and you're hoping to learn something. So what was your biggest surprise in creating community? Um, I think the biggest surprise has been just how effective it is. Mm. Yeah. I di I had no idea. I'd never worked with community like this. I'd never let a community like this. I think also the biggest surprise is how much the women would show up and not only receive, but give. Mm-hmm. That's been amazing, you know? I think we've talked that I thought I was gonna have to be in there moderating, you know? Yeah. Really managing everybody. And I think it is a testament to the type of women that listen to the podcasts that are doing their own work, and then the, the process that you have to do to get into the community mm-hmm. With the application and the NDA, it creates a really beautifully safe container and there are commitments that you're making ahead of time to protecting that container. Yeah. That all melded into this space. Um, that has shown me now that you can absolutely get the kind of results, I thought it would be supportive for women. I didn't know if they'd actually be able to like, go through the process and like decide and then actually start moving through if they've decided on divorce to actually start going through the divorce process with each other. But that's what we've been seeing. Yeah. Is they. Many of them get in, find the support, the ones that dive in with both feet. Mm-hmm. Really, you know, start to move and their journey shifts. And, um, that's been really inspiring at the retreat to see mm-hmm women whose lives have been dramatically changed, who maybe had a 90 minute with me and then the community, but even without working with me one-on-one for some women, that was enough. Yes. Now when you join your community specifically, it's not just a chat room, there is structure in place. Mm-hmm. So each month there's a theme. We are learning new tools. Sometimes you bring in guests to do a workshop. So there is something for you to learn and begin. Yeah. The process of learning a common language and common tools as you come into it. Yes. And I've wondered,'cause I have been surprised you haven't shared with me what we're going to work on next month. I'm always asking you, so what's the theme this month? And I'm always surprised. I'm like, and delighted. I'm delighted and it's, it's been very exciting for me. So how do you decide what to focus on each month? I think that's the beauty of. My own journey with the A DHD and embracing how I work and how I flow. Mm-hmm. Um, originally when I started the community, I did have like two years worth of months planned. And then at some point this year, something big came through similar to how I do it on the podcast, where I was just like, I'm obsessed about this. This needs to be talked about right now. And that became the month's theme and, um. I have still that list that I pull from. But really now it's a much more kind of organic process of what am I noticing coming up for the women in the community? So that especially happened last month. I was noticing, um, in my one-on-one coaching, I was noticing a lot of the drama triangle, these, you know, roles of being the villain or the rescuer and victimhood. And then I was seeing those same things happening on coaching calls or in the weather of the week. And I was like, okay, ne next month this is what needs to be taught. So it's. Really amazing to watch myself as well. It's not a set curriculum, it's something that I'm organically flowing with my community in teaching them. And, you know, it, it flows out of a lot of places. Often it's stuff that you've brought me, stuff we're excited about. Mm-hmm. Um, or things that I'm hearing about, tools that I'm learning, that I'm seeing. I think that keeps us light on our feet, you know? Yes, yes. We're in touch with like, what's actually coming through for the women in the community. Mm-hmm. And uh, when this month's topic dropped, everybody was like, oh my God, this is what I need. And I was like, yes, I know. I know it is because I've been watching it. Yes, because while. We are very circular in that we're not a top down hierarchy. Britta has all the answers or look to Quinn, it is this circular. Let's witness each other. Yeah. And let's move together. That being said, Britta, you do hold a frequency of leadership in this work that we look to and is so supportive and so I don't want to discount that in saying that, you know, we try not to have this big hierarchy, but there's something really special with the magic that is Britta. So, and, and that I, we, this was also one of the things we vibed about the most coming off of the retreat. How, you know, it makes me think of when they talk about like matriarchy or do you remember like, uh, I can't think of the word right now, but how you can structure people in different ways. Maybe it's more of like a synergy. Mm-hmm. A synergistic approach, but it's like, yes, I am the leader of the group, but oh my God, when we were at the retreat, there was no, like, there was no hierarchy. And that felt so there was no power over. No. You do what I say no, like dynamics there with the women that were attending the retreat of, you know, oh. It was me really getting to just be with them, like, like sisterhood with them. Like we had a night where we were doing a little spa night and I got to, it was just, it was spontaneous, the way it unfolded. But I got to end up putting on their masks, which was very fun for me. I think it was like a little, my neuro divergent. So describe putting on their masks. We're talking about Britta sitting across from a woman and using these little brushes, brushes and on a very specific regenerative face. Mask. Mask. Yes. And that intimacy of, mm-hmm. And it makes me emotional because it's like, yes, I get to be. In air quotes, the leader, because this is just, I think, kind of the frequency that wants to come through me. And it's something I've been gifted to get to like create, and also that intimacy of these women feeling like they are so safe with me. You know? Yeah. We got to sit, I got to talk with them one-on-one. I'm getting to put these beautiful thing, you know? Beautiful. It's such an intimate thing to brush that across their faces. Your inches apart. Yeah, just like right there. And that I do feel is in the community too, the way women respond to each other in the comments. They're not waiting for direction from me. They're not looking to see, you know? Mm-hmm. What's Brita gonna say or what's Brita gonna think because I'm just one person. And that also has relieved I felt at the retreat. The load of like, I've got to hold the space for everybody. Like, no, these women are all holding the space for each other. I just have built the platform and I have that, you know, that vision, right? I can spot things ahead of time, which helps me to call it in. Mm-hmm. But what a gift for me as well, like that, that I think is also the hugest surprise, was that I've realized how much the community is also raising me in its own way. And yes, the tenderness, it was a very vulnerable thing for me to do, to go and be with 15 other women. Mm-hmm. That, mm-hmm. I know through the community, but I've never met in person. As Quinn knows, I'm a little bit more of a hermit and an introvert in my personal life. I don't have huge groups of people that I spend time with. To go and be so just loved by those women in that very, um, non-hierarchical, like we're all humans kind of space. Like I don't, nobody wants to be put in my world. I don't wanna be put on a pedestal and expected to perform. Mm-hmm. For everybody. And that was something at the retreat that I felt like was just natural. Yeah. For all of us. It felt like a web or, you know, what is it that if you're on a high wire catches you the nets? Yes. That it, there's enough connection points that no matter if you fall We got you. We got you. Yeah. And we had an experience during one of the dinners where. The woman s, she received some very disappointing news about how her current husband is showing up, and as she told us what had happened. Mm-hmm. The women came around her and literally held her as she went through the emotions of being sad and being disappointed and being angry and then saying, no, it's okay, it's okay. Like talking herself outta her anger and her disappointment, and other women going, no, it is not okay, and you are okay. Yes, we've gotten you, we allow for all of these messy emotions that sometimes going through divorce, your BFF does not wanna hear it anymore. Yeah. And your mom or your sisters or post-divorce, you know, quit whining, you chose this kind of thing. And so to have women who, they're not gonna rescue you, but they will walk with you. Yeah. That, that, that was the most beautiful example of women not trying to fix it or make it go away. That is one of the things I love the most in the community, is the they. And, and maybe that is the leadership that has come from me is that way of like the big sister that's like. You still gotta squeeze the thing. It's gonna be hard, but like I see you and you're doing it and I got you. Because ultimately none of us want to be rescued. We want to see more of ourselves in the heart. Oh, yes, yes. We want to know that we can do it. Yes. We want to build the muscles, we want to be resilient. And sometimes it takes holding someone else's hand. Yeah. And walking through it to know that you can. Yes. And women throughout history, our survival and flourishing has depended on relational webs, circles of mutual care, embodied wisdom. That's how women traditionally thrive. Yes. And. There have been intentional structures put in place to kind of break that. These, there's this philosopher, um, Mary Daley, and she says, women have always been the connectors of life. When patriarchal systems cut those cords, they severed us from our own source, and we're seeing women going back to their own source. This isn't a devaluation of the men who are important in our lives, but there is something so special about being witnessed by another woman, especially in this patriarchal stew that would like me to fight with and cut down another woman. And instead, I sit with her, I witness her, I hold her. It is a source of of energy for me. So when there are times where I think I don't have time for community, it's generally a tell that, okay, we need to fill ourselves. That's exactly where I need to go Sit in community. Yes. And that's because I think, you know, this is the very real difference of the type of connection that is experienced in our community. Mm-hmm. We have to come back to that word. And that was what blew me away, was seeing we have managed in this community to create that type of connection. And it's very, you know, I can't always say, I mean I don't control that necessarily. Like that's just the magic of the type of women that have been drawn in the connections they have built with each other, where it is that deep ICU rather than a, let me come rescue you or let me tell you what to do. That I think many of us have interpreted as being connection, but is actually codependency and you know, those kind of patterns that, you know, obviously still play in the community, but I think more and more women are relearning what real connection looks like. And Quinn, when you said earlier that women have always been the connectors of life, I really feel like we saw that at the retreat with women. Like we didn't wanna leave. Right there. Yeah. There was a real, when you talked about, I got emotional when you talked about everybody hugging that woman going through, you know, the woman in our community, going through that hard moment because I was like, oh, I, it like took me back to how good it felt to be living and moving in a space where there was always someone there mm-hmm. That you felt safe with, that you loved, that you wanted to see. Like, it was an incredible gift. Each morning I remember waking up to the sounds of beautiful, loud, vibrant women's voices ringing through the house. Mm-hmm. And I miss it. You know, I, I know. I think we can, I know. Me too. Can we go back? Yeah. I think we can both say that, you know. There is something very, very important to us as humans that has been lost in the way that we have moved in the last 100 years to so much isolation to making the nuclear family all you need and the closest friendships you have. Maybe being like a soccer mom that you see occasionally, or moms that you know at the school, but that don't really see you or know you. Mm-hmm. And, you know, often the people that you do feel closest with, maybe your, you know, maybe your sister, but they're often coming from their own, you know, they came from the same traumatized stew You did. Yes. So, so it's. I just think it can't be, especially in the world, we're moving into what we have ahead of us. It cannot be underestimated. The power of women connecting with other women and really feeling seen and heard by other women, and also seeing and hearing other women on purpose. On purpose. I love how you talked about your human design. That rather than putting the onus on women to see you and like you, like I'm going to be the one that opens myself and allows connection, works for connection. I'm going to invite people in because under our current economic system, because capitalism isn't just an economic system and I think that. As we talk about capitalism, I wanna talk more about kind of the philosophy of it, because there is a logic behind it that tends to valorize individualism, competition, commodification, efficiency, productivity. Now, this isn't to say that there aren't problems with socialist connections or communist connections. Mm-hmm. The way it's been interpreted in the world, but I'm talking about the philosophy of let's make people as productive as possible, because connection oftentimes does not, is the first thing productive? It's not productive. Exactly. Connection. We saw that that weekend. It was about slowing the fuck down. Mm-hmm. And being to connect and really be seen and be with other people. You have to give up your time and attention. Yeah. To those people. And. You know, especially in a world where we're like, well, what's in it for me? You know, I don't wanna sit. It makes me think of our weather of the week that we have every week. It's a very simple practice of women getting to come and just share what happened that week. And if your approach to it is, this is so annoying, I don't wanna listen to other women talking about what you know their lives, that's boring. What you don't realize is in that moment you are separating yourself. You are stuck in that more capitalistic, well, if it's not gonna help me, and not understanding that listening and witnessing somebody else does help you. Yes. That connection is more likely to help you see life and the challenges before you as a challenge, a doable challenge instead of Yes. A threat and something that's overwhelming. Yes. And when we think of women's ways of knowing, whether it was the red tent tradition where you have to separate yourself from the men during that time of the month. Mm-hmm. Where women would gather together, or the pagan rituals. Just the whole mythos of women and our ways of knowing and women's rights. Yes. They're oftentimes devalued by the. Rationality of modernity because what we, when we talk about, oh, I just knew like there was a woman in the community. I don't think she came to the retreat, but she was saying she wanted to have the conversation with her husband. Mm-hmm. And the women were like, yeah, we got you. You can't, there is no perfect moment, but we got you no matter what. And she woke up one day and she got on the community and she said, I did it. I knew what that today was the day. I just had this sense of knowing and peace. And when you talk to another woman about that sense of knowing, it's like, we get it. We get it. Because that is a woman's way of knowing. It tends, mm-hmm. In my estimation, to be more intuitive and unconscious with our cyclical nature. It's more embodied. It's yes. These waves of experience that we get to have as, as an ocean, something that is so vast and wild. Mm-hmm. And beautiful. But it's not always valued in the marketplace's unless it can be sold as a like never. Yeah, exactly. Unless it can be. And it's more and more I see our world just starting to, I, you know, the world. I am choosing to believe in the people I choose to follow and interact with our people. Waking up to this and saying, mm-hmm. And when you talked about capitalism, I was like, oh my god. Capitalism is basically what I'm saying when I say patriarchy. So they're like interchangeable. You know, this world that is just like faster, more. That will somehow make us happy. But I also wanna be fair to when I think, I mean, I am a child of the seventies and eighties, so what I learned about communism and the distrust that was bred, even though it was for everyone, it was community. And isn't, isn't that the, but it was distrust. There's a podcast on diabolical lies, right? Isn't that that one where she breaks down capitalism? And I'll have to, we'll link it in the show notes. Okay. Because there's a whole, I love diabolical. Diabolical lies. Yes. There's a whole, we could go down a serious, gorgeous rabbit hole, which they already did in that episode. Mm-hmm. Which was so helpful for me learning more about and understanding capitalism. And then the way socialism has been enacted through more patriarchal lenses, which make it not fucking work. So there are principles and ideas. I just, I think we have not even, uh, what we saw at the retreat, right? Mm-hmm. What we're learning in the community. There are ways of humans being and taking care of each other and loving each other that we have lost in this world that I want to be a part of bringing back, and we are watching the systems around us collapsing in real time. Mm-hmm. Like real time. It's not, it's not a question anymore of is this going to continue the way it is? No. It's collapsing in real time. Yeah. Where do you go? I think the heart of this episode is us saying whether it's, and, and we've talked a lot about my community because it's the only community, you know, we have this kind of exposure to that has been this good. Regardless. I think the word going forward in the world is gonna be community. And not just community. It's got to have the connection. Yes. It's connection. It is connection. Yes. So speaking of that, I wanted to reflect you some of the things that I noticed about myself coming off the retreat. Oh yes, please. You dropped me off at the airport and I was flying southwest, so I got to have a middle seat, and as I was walking down the aisles, I saw two options and one was between two men. And you know, I don't mind being between two men, but there was this other option. There was. These two women, and one of them was on the larger side. And I thought, I wanna sit by her because I wanna sit by the woman who might get an asshole next to her, and I'm gonna be the woman that's not the asshole. So she up and moved out of the way, and I asked if she wanted me to put down the seat dividers. Armrest. Yeah, the armrest, because I knew it would cut into her body. Mm. And she said, you decide you're in the middle. And I said, I'd prefer just leaving it up. And allowing her body to take up the space. It was less than two hour flight, and I could be there with her. Now, this other woman who was against the window, she slept most of the flight, but when they came and offered snacks, I got her a snack. So when she woke up, she got those dry ass pretzels and it just. Even though these women probably didn't think of me as being in community, I was still in that space of I am in community. And when I went to orientation this past week for my nursing clinicals, I chose that random chair in the middle of the row so that I would have people in front of me, behind me to the sides of me that I was starting to build my web, my connection, that safety net that I know all of us are going to need. I see the need and so I'm building it within my community. Yes. And you had mentioned how it takes time, it takes effort. Yes. And any relationship worth having takes investment and presence and growing connection within community is no different. Absolutely. And I love that. I think this is, this is the gift of when you feel seen, when you feel heard, even in the smallness of just somebody knows what happened to me this week, you then want other people to also feel seen and heard. And that is, I've talked about this on the podcast before about the danger of fraying our social fabrics mm-hmm. Of getting so locked in to seeing the other as something to be feared, you know, something to, um, to distrust. How do we counteract that? We, in our daily lives become the person that radiates that energy of. I've got me, I've got my people, and I want the world to be a safer place through making space in tiny energetic ways, such a small thing to leave that armchair up such a big thing energetically because it's saying without words, you are safe, I see you and I want you to feel safe around me. Even if it means a little, maybe it's a little bit uncomfortable for me, you know, to be like I, I think of at the retreat, this first retreat we had all of the women besides, you know, three, so there was nine, 10, I don't know, 10 women, nine women all in one room. On bunk in this beds, on bunk beds. Y'all with one bathroom connected to that room with one bathroom. Oh my God. Oh my God. There were other bathrooms, but just the one connected to that room. Yeah, to that room. And it really was, you know, once again, another example to me of the power of that connection that has been built there. Yeah. Because that could have been a recipe for quite a bit of drama, having nine, 10 women all in one room with each other. Yeah, yeah. And they were so gracious and kind and just gentle with each other in that space. It was like, and granted we only had, you know, two and a. Two days, two and a half days. Yes. Yeah. And that was, we were kind of the mantra where it's just two days. It's just two days. We can do it, you know, we, we can do it for two days in the, the, it was something we did so that the cost of the retreat would be much more, um, you know, affordable. Available. Yeah. Affordable. Exactly. Mm-hmm. And what a gift it was to all of those women to allow, yeah. Some discomfort in the sleeping arrangements. But I think every single one of them would tell me, you know, absolutely. It was worth it because I got to be in connection with these women that I love. And the connection just grew. That was the other amazing thing is, you know, I told you, I said it's, it's like that fear, you know, never meet your heroes in person. Mm-hmm. Because you'll probably be disappointed and I. I felt like for myself, those other women, not a one of us, walked away disappointed in the people. Mm-hmm. That we met there because it was like, oh, she really is everything I thought she was and more. Yes. So many big personalities. You know what surprised me about the sleeping arrangements is that as the women came in, I thought that the women would want that other room where they could have separate beds and not be in this big room with all the women. That's the room that filled up first. The women wanted to be, we called it the slumber party room, and they. Just went for it. But the women who were in the other room that weren't in the slumber party room, they also were not excluded. It wasn't cliquey. Mm-hmm. You could, you could fall asleep on a couch. You could go hang out in the slumber party room. Yes. There were so many ways to connect and be with each other. It was, it was such a beautiful experience. So Britta, if women are looking for community with connection, and this is not just for women considering divorce, it's not just during your divorce, it's like in life, I hope we've convinced you, you need to be connecting with other women. Yes. Based on what we've learned. What do you think women should look for, whether it's your community or they wanna create something within their own neighborhood? Yeah. What should they look for for finding connected community? Yeah. So I will say this, I don't have a lot of experience in other communities, right? Besides like my ecstatic dance community here. Mm-hmm. And even there this last year, I've found some parts of it that I'm like, oh, this, I don't know. Like Joe and I are currently kind of reevaluating, they're undergoing their own kind of process of protecting the community, re-figuring out boundaries. So I think that's a really big part of, uh, healthy communities, is that there is a type of leadership that is, that has a vision and an idea of what that connection is and is intentionally. Moderating and protecting the space. I do think that that's why our community has such a distinct flavor and a high, high level of connection. Mm-hmm. Because these are women drawn by the things I'm teaching by my voice, by that frequency that I have. Mm-hmm. So I think you really wanna be intentional at looking at who's leading that community. Mm-hmm. And what is not just the things they say the community is gonna do, but what is the actual energy they're bringing. Like if Brene Brown were to start up a community, you know, I would be there. Right. I wanna go to her from the party room. Yeah. Yes. Uh, Glennon Doyle is another person that like I, her frequency speaks to me. And I think that's maybe where we sometimes. We're, so we want community that we don't pay attention to. Like what's the connection within that community? Um, so I think that's a big one. And then you can't just like show up to community and expect it to give you what you're looking for. I've seen how the women that are getting the most out of the community are the women that show up and both give and receive. Mm-hmm. And I have learned that as well. I've learned, you know, I've been in a lot of a giving space, but I'm like, Ooh, I have to also be willing to receive, which I did at the retreat. I was mm-hmm. Able to be a little bit more vulnerable at times. Did a question and answer with you and me where I could just kind of let myself share things that, you know, to receive real seeing in ways that Yeah, because it was more intimate and vulnerable in that space and the connection was stronger. There was stuff shared that I'm not gonna, you know, talk about in the same way on the podcast. So you also have to catch the vision of. Putting in every bit that you put in is what you're gonna receive back and catching yourself when your brain wants to be like, me, me, me, I'm not, you know, or noticing when your brain plays tricks and is like, they're all friends and they're not friends with me. You know?'cause we have that, we have that programming. So it is a lot of self-responsibility within community. Um, so if I'm hearing you correctly, there is the container itself, and you want to make sure it's not just community, but there is a level of connection through kind of the, the boundaries of who's welcomed, who's allowed in. I mean, at least with your community, we have some strong boundaries about We do. Who gets to come in. Yes. And we cultivate that. And I have been called out, um, when I have, you know. Put a message up and you said, um, Hey Quinn, could you put a sensitive share tag at the beginning of that? Yeah. We're, because we're in a community where women have C-P-T-S-D and we don't want it to just be this negative share fest. Yes. Or my trauma's bigger than your trauma. Like Dick measuring Contest. We allow for people to share within the parameters of healthy sharing. Like nothing's off limits, but we're not going to surprise or shock someone with a share. Mm-hmm. And so there's that part. And then the personal responsibility of coming in, being willing to be vulnerable. Yes. To test the waters and to ask for help, but also to be available to witness. And give to drop an emoji something. Yes. To give and to give. You have to be doing your own work. Yeah. That's what I see. That is So, you know, that is really amazing about the community and the way it is, is these are a lot of women that are doing their own work, which begs the question, what the hell is doing your own work? So me being in the community, this is where I really love the foundational work of each month. We're not going to spend months and months and months on the same topic, but it's, it's building this toolbox. Like this month it's about the drama triangle. One month it was more about embodiment. Mm-hmm. We have done so many interesting things that. I probably would've lost momentum doing it by myself. But within this structure of your community and doing it with other women, like just last night I saw somebody say, have you guys watched the YouTube video that Britta dropped about the drama triangle? It's so good. I'm only a few minutes in, and I'm like, OMG, I haven't watched that yet. I need to go watch that. But it's not in a, you must do this thing, there's no power over. It's like if you don't know what your work is, come find your work with the structure of the community. Yes. And that's, that's something I would say is important in community is that you feel like you are building something. Mm-hmm. With these other people. Like this is the difference between, you know, like. If you're not doing your own work, if you're not learning and also developing, then I don't know how much just like chatting and talking with people, like there can just be a spin there. Right. That makes me think of like a Facebook group. Yes. Or a Reddit thread like mm-hmm. That is different than active connection and active community. And you know, that's why I also think it's important to be in communities that represent or fit with where you're at in your journey. You know, I've, it was hard for me this last week that was a woman I met that had been kind of referred to me through women in the community who's not actually going through a divorce and really wanted to be a part of the community. And I just had to hold the line on like that is actually not, and I feel for her, you know, because she's like, I need resources, I need community, and I have to. Be intentional with the space. And so my real hope, like what I saw coming out of the retreat too, that just made me like, oh my God, there it is. When I talk about, you know, the vision that I've had for this day or go community, what I want it to be was seeing these women coming to me in Quinn and being like, so what, what, what did it take to start a podcast? Mm-hmm. You know, where did you get coach training? I'm kind of interested in that. And that was what lit me up because I was like, yeah. That is the dream that this community supports women who then go on and create more communities because we are going to need mm-hmm. So much more community in the years and decades to come. Communities built around narcissistic abuse communities, built around, you know, co-parenting, um mm-hmm. Communities built, name it. We need communities run by women that understand this level of connection. And I feel like that's what we're seeding here. Yes. Is how do you be in real connection with other women? Yes. It's through my community is through the lens of considering divorce. But what I hope will happen is the women that come through that work with me, that are touched by this podcast that you know are loved by you and me on the retreat that happened and in the retreats in the future, will get a taste. Mm-hmm. Of what real connection is like. It will implant in their souls, it will grow within them and they will produce their own fruit from that. That then goes and gives connection to other women. And then we create, like I talked about at the retreat, this like linking chain web of all of us as women providing that connection to each other. That was broken in our maternal lines. Yeah. So I wanna be very clear to get into your community. Yeah. You've gotta be considering divorce. Be going through divorce or getting divorced. And so if you're married right now, if you're happily married, tough luck. This is not time to consider divorce. Sorry honey. I really don't wanna do this, but, but I need to be part of a community. So Yeah, I've, I've had to, it's a hard, you know, this was one of the questions asked at the retreat, how do you decide who gets to come in or who doesn't? And it is an important thing that I'm healing in myself, that codependent. I just want everybody to come in and having to understand. That what makes it so potent and powerful at this moment and is that it is a container for women in very specific periods. And even these women, like the women we're letting come back in. She's someone who I worked with at the very beginning of her journey. Mm-hmm. So she's someone that has specifically already learned a lot of that connection. She's living in that connection right now in her life, I would say in her own bit. So even that's an interesting, unique position. You know, me having somebody who's already been divorced come back in, but she's someone that's worked with me. Um, so it is, it's a special curated space that gets to be. What it is and uh, okay. But for my listeners, I cannot guarantee that you get in because it's not up to me. But I trust the magic that is Britta who discerns Yeah. And curates this space. Yeah. And I would say, I think as the community expands, because that's the other thing, we're in the beginning of the community, it's still small and super intimate. I realized with this retreat, I was like, whoa, this is, this is really an incredibly like once in a lifetime experience because these are women. Very special. Yeah. It's very special. These were founding members. Some of these women have been with us for an entire year in the community. Mm-hmm. So I know them intimately. Like I've gone through watch, all of us have watched their journeys. It was very, very special. Yeah. That will change as things grow that just. I'm learning more and more. Change is the only constant in this world. Um, but I could see absolutely a space in the future where, like I'm saying, women that understand this connection, that are listening to your podcast, my podcast, maybe they're coming to that post-divorce, but they're realizing like, this is my soul tribe. Mm-hmm. I could see there being space or women that you have worked with in the past. Right. It's, it's a level of depth really. That I'm looking for. And there are women, I will be honest, there are women that come to me that are considering a divorce that just, I'm like, you haven't listened to enough of the podcast yet. You don't have enough of the tools. Mm-hmm. To really come into the community. Because with community as a leader, you're also weighing how much can the community sustain of new people coming in with all of their stuff, and that not overburdening the people that are already there. It's a beautifully, it is definitely an organism, a complex organism, that as the leader of it, I am watching, it's why I don't allow the community to be flooded, you know? But financially you could let a whole bunch of people in. But over this year, I've realized. It's a microcosm that I am nurturing and paying attention to, and I have to step in at times to be like, Hey, we're gonna kind of pull this back, or, um, but as you do that, it, it flourishes really beautifully and it will grow and it will change. And the point is, if you don't fit, which most of the women listening to both of our podcasts will, you know, be good candidates for the community. If not, find those spaces, do the mm-hmm. And if you're not finding'em, start creating'em. Mm-hmm. Because that is gonna be the, the, the, I think it's gonna be the currency in the future. Mm-hmm. You know, is connection. That's where you're gonna actually feel safe in the world to come, is knowing I've got people who know me and they've got my back emotionally, even if they can't be there physically. Yes. Yeah. Thank you for this conversation. I want to go back and just read Brene's definition Yes. Of connection one last time. Connection is the energy that exists between people when they feel seen, heard, and valued. When they can give and receive without judgment, and when they derive sustenance and strength from the relationship. I feel this with you, Britta. I feel this with the community. I am building this more and more in my world, here in my neighborhood. Yes, and this is what I want for every woman, every human. This planet Yes. Is connection. Yes. We, we are starting with women, but I will tell you, seeing that at the retreat made me go, God, I want this for men too. Yeah. Like let us unequivocally say yes we are focused on women because honestly they're the nicest to work with. Let's just be real. They're the ones that are like, I would like some help. Please. So I'm gonna work with women because I don't like working with people that don't wanna listen. But damn do men need this as well? And you know, I see. And I hope for futures as well where men have this support because a lot of the men's groups right now claim they are creating community and connection. And what I see is. What you were talking to me about in Brene's book of like, it's still a culture of shame and man up and be more manly and you need to be the man. Yeah. And that just, that's not what humans, humans, whether you are a man or a woman who humans deserve real connection. Yeah. I don't think we can live without it. We can't. No. And Brene says, so, so, so it must be real. It's true. True facts. Brene said it. That is a fact. It is not a thought. Yep. Oh, I love you, Quinn. Thank you, Renee. Thank you so much for this incredible episode for taking the lead on this. What an incredible gift. Y'all. I just have to, I can't leave this episode without saying that. At that retreat I got to see. The depth of Quinn's support for me. I got to see how I, and I want to publicly on this podcast say, there is only a Britta and there is only a retreat in these things because there is a Quinn like, oh, thank you. There is so much that you do. And I loved seeing at the retreat how the women there saw that and honored that in you. It was. Thank you, so lovely seeing them hug on you and love you and understand the depth of our friendship and how without your support, without this connection with you, this is not something I would be able to do. Hmm. Thank you. Thank you. Effort. Yes. All right, y'all. Till next week. We love you. Love you. Bye-bye.