41. When Your Kids Really Need You: Insights from the Other Side of Early Motherhood with Dr. Dana Corriel

Hey doc! In today's episode, Dr. Dana Coriel, internist turned digital entrepreneur, shares her 20-year journey through medicine and motherhood. From having her first baby as a resident to building SoMeDocs (Doctors on Social Media), she offers invaluable insights about:

• Navigating residency with a newborn
• The reality of getting help in different career stages
• Managing perfectionist tendencies and mom guilt
• When children need you most 
• Rediscovering yourself beyond medicine
• Building a digital empire while raising three boys

Key takeaways:

• Your kids are more resilient than you think
• Teenage years demand more of your presence than early childhood
• Personal rediscovery can lead to unexpected career paths
• Perfectionism in early motherhood often brings unnecessary stress

Dana Corriel, MD, is the founder/CEO of SoMeDocs (doctorsonsocialmedia.com), a healthcare innovation hub that promotes the autonomy of individuals in healthcare. Corriel serves as an advisor to many health brands and has helped shape many of today’s digital projects, especially those tackled by physicians. 

She has spoken at events such as Harvard’s Writing, Publishing, & Social Media for Healthcare Professionals (3 years in a row), PR Week, Women in Medicine, Women Physician Wellness, InnovatorMD, Leverage & Growth Summit, UN Commission for the Status of Women/AMWA, and more. Dr. Corriel has earned recognitions including Top Ten Internists to Follow on Twitter by Medical Economics & Top 20 Social Media Physician Influencers by Medscape. 

Her “special sauce” skills include digital design, unique growth ideas, and community building strategies. She adds particular value to startups in the health & healthcare space, having practiced medicine as a board-certified internist & being an active player in the space & a pioneer in the healthcare digital revolution.

For more information about Dr. Corriel, you can visit her website and connect with her on Facebook, Instagram, and her personal website. 

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Transcript

 Hey Doc, I am back with another interview and I am so excited. I have with me Dr. Dana Coriel. She is an internal medicine doctor. She is a digital strategist and designer, but you probably know her as the founder and CEO of SoMeDocs, doctors on social media. And I am so, so excited. So go ahead and introduce yourself a little bit more and tell our listeners how many 

kids you have and how old they are.

Sure. So I'm Dana Coriel. I'm an internist, and I'm also a digital entrepreneur. I founded SoMeDocs, which is,  a healthcare innovation hub. We promote the autonomy of healthcare individuals, through digital means. And, I am a mother of three boys. They are aged 13, 17, and 20.  So this is wisdom. 

Okay.

She's on the other side. 

Right. It's my experience. Let's play. 

Yes. Yes. Yes. I love that. And you know, I like to have a mix of people that have been through it. I say you all are the light at the end of our tunnels because I'm still in it. Most of my listeners are still in it. And you know, I really want us to know that there is hope and to get the perspectives of people who have been through it.

So I'm I'm excited to hear everything that you have to say. Amazing. Amazing. Thank you for having me on. Of course. So I want to start off with before you even got pregnant  What ideas did you have about motherhood? 

What a great question. 

I don't think I thought about it much. Like I didn't romanticize that concept like some women do. And again, I'm not saying it in a judgmental way. It's not good or bad to do it or not to do it, but I just didn't. Like, I think part of my past is that I was so busy going from, you know, premed studies to medicine, to residency, that there was really no room to pause and think about much of the future that said, I will say that I've had moments in time where I always wonder, like, for example, what's my spouse going to be like, you know, before I dated my husband, it was always, I wonder what my husband's going to be like. And then there were periods of time where I just remember distinctly thinking to myself, I wonder what my children are going to be like. so definitely didn't think through that.

And we can certainly talk about how, you know, I got pregnant cause I did get pregnant in residency. And, and maybe that explains why I really did not have any like, So I'm not going to go into that because I don't have any forethought or any planning going to it. 

Yes. Oh, please tell me. Tell me more about that.

I know there are residents who are listening and I cannot imagine how y'all did it.  I just look back at my residency experience and Yeah, it was traumatic enough. So please tell us a little bit more about that. 

Well, my husband and I were both residents. We were both interns, actually, which means it was our first year.

For those listening that don't know what that means. We were in our first year of residency. We had just gotten married. We married three months into our internship. And then, , we, got pregnant shortly after that. It. Um, was definitely not, I don't want to, well, this is getting really personal, but,  um, it wasn't that it was unplanned, but it wasn't that we were, that it was planned.

I mean, we were in a loving relationship. Um, we knew that our values really matched and we were, um, in, in a relationship. You know, a relationship that was going to give love to a child. And so we felt like if a child was going to come into this world,  through our union, that it would be wonderful. And a child did we, you know, I got pregnant very quickly and again, we didn't think through it, but it just happened and yeah, I mean, it was really hard, , looking back now, I don't know that having my first child after residency would have necessarily been better or worse.

It just was, um, and it definitely made residency more difficult to go through.  

Yeah. And do you think that  the fact that it was so early changed your perspective in terms of how you would have raised that child if you were unattending or anything like that? 

Yeah, that's a good question.

I mean, The fact that you're so busy and you're working around the clock, certainly when we were residents, when we were interns and residents, they're We're no cutoffs and such. I mean, we worked really long hours and so, you know, we needed to get help. Um, I think I would have probably needed to get help even if I was an attending.

Um, but certainly once you're finished with residency,  you can make life adjustments. That you can't really make when you are a resident. Like you sort of have to go through residency the way it is different when you're actually working, um, out in the work field, you can, out in the workforce, you could say, I want to now work part time because it's not conducive to me being a mother.

So, um, yeah, it was definitely different in terms of, How I raised my son and, and the fact that I really didn't have a lot of time. And that played a factor in a lot of the guilt that I had for years later. Um, I had a really large amount of guilt of, you know, having to bring someone else in to help raise a child and really not having a lot of time for, um, that child and just feeling like, is that really what a good mom does?

Yeah. 

Oh my gosh. I have so many 

questions. First, I just want to ask, how long ago was residency?  

Um, my son's 20, so it was about 20 ish years ago, maybe a little more. Yeah, about 20 years ago. 

My simple math, sorry. So, how much time did you get off?  

Oh, wow.  I don't, not a lot. I'm just trying to think off the top of my head.

Maybe six weeks, maybe a month and a half. I 

feel like that's, that's about 

how 

long I got. Yeah, and it didn't adjust how long you took to graduate, right? 

It didn't, but I did need like adjustments made for me. So I don't know how we kind of shuffled it, whether I had to do more of this more, I don't remember.

But  I know that I not only felt guilty, but I was extremely appreciative for even just that time. Because again, as you and I know, residency is. It's sort of a very,  um, it's a rough part of your life. And so you're really dedicating a lot of time into it. And so any time taken away is a lot of times resented.

And I think that I, you feel guilty because you know that your co residents are resenting you for, you know, being pregnant and getting, um, I guess  getting stuff given to us that others aren't like those six weeks off, you know, aren't being given to other people. Who aren't having children. So yeah, 

right.

Did they particularly make you feel the resentment or you kind of just thought? Yeah, they're probably resentful. 

No, I don't think anybody Made me feel the resentment. I think I'm just  very in tune with emotions and the way people react around me. Um, I'm definitely what's some in some circles known as an HSP, a highly sensitive person.

And there's actually a term for that, for those listening that don't know, it's not just like, you know, a quality or an adjective. There's actually like a known trait called HSP where you're not just highly sensitive, but you like have this. Um,  I don't know if it's a talent because it literally is a double edged sword, but you can pick up on people's emotions towards you.

Like you really can't, you're good at picking up what others are feeling. It may, it makes people really great doctors, but sometimes it almost makes us just. Too involved and too caring. So, yeah, 

but would you differentiate that from being an empath? 

Oh, that's a good question. Sorry. You're just full of good questions.

I keep saying that term, but, um, I do think it's a little different. Again, I'm not an expert on this topic, um, and certainly not a psychiatrist, but I think being an empath is really just connecting with the other side and understanding where they're coming from. I think it highly sensitive person does have some negative connotations to it, where it's like almost like. 

Like you're too, like, you're way too sensitive where you're picking up so much. You're just to your detriment. You're sensitive. I see. Yeah. Okay. 

Because look at me, just like in med school, I'm like trying to diagnose myself. I'm like, Oh, is that me?  I always said I was an empath, but anyway, I digress. A lot of 

us are right.

A lot of doctors are because they're just like, who, I mean, besides being smart, cause we have to pass all these tests. We're also usually like. Kind, compassionate and  generous people, um, not to toot our horns, but we don't.  Hey, I'm all 

about tootin your horn. I'm, I love a brag, so I love it.  Okay.

All right. So when you, your husband was in residency as well, did he get time off? 

No. 

Okay. Um, right. 

I want to put the disclaimer on because, you know, it's just based on my memory, but I mean, maybe like a, like a day or two with a new child, but no, he did not get like a paternity leave. Gotcha. 

And tell me about the help that you got, because I think that is what you said was can resonate with so many people, even now, even people who are not in residency, that guilt of having somebody else quote unquote, raising your child.

What did that look like for you? And how did you work through it? 

Yeah, I mean, we had to get someone to come in and really help us to raise our child. And, um, that also included parents stepping up sometimes and really sort of helping us. But I think that The famous quote, it takes a village.

It really does take a village, even when you're not like in residency and all that, but in our case where you have two residents, it certainly took a village. Um, and I'm really thankful for every, everybody that was around us that, you know, contributed and really played an important role in our life to help, you know, to help me and my husband, to help my husband and I raise our, our children.

Child in our now our Children. 

Yeah. So it was just the one child in residency.  

Yes, it was one child in residency. And then right after residency. , I had another. Okay. 

And talk to me about parents helping. Was that something that you felt comfortable asking for? Was it your parents or your husband's parents?

, the grandparents helped peripherally, not a ton, but I still remember it because I'm so grateful for it. Um, my parents happened to, at that point have lived alone. On the other side of the country. Um, I was on the East coast and they were on the West. My husband's parents were closer. They were in Brooklyn, New York.

We were in the Bronx. And, um, when I say help, I mean, they'd come over every once in a while. They'd maybe babysit, um, if we needed them to. , and I'm very grateful for that, but they didn't like move in. I didn't have that kind of, um, You know, help from from my parents or from my husband's parents, but always really appreciative of it because I, you know, I think when  children are raised.

Um, in a stable home with great role models, it's just really nice to give them that exposure also to different people, right? Because all of us are different. I'm different than my husband, and I'm different than my in laws, and I'm even different than my parents, even if we do, you know, possess similarities, uh, especially, you know, not just look wise, but also in our thought processes and our behaviors.

Yeah, and I think that's an important thing. I've never heard  that perspective on having different people because most of what I hear is, Oh, I don't want too many people around. I want just us. I just want me and my husband or just one nanny. But I like that perspective, right? Because that's how I was raised.

That's what we do as well. And I think it is important for that exposure to different personalities. So thank you for that. Um, I'm going to include that in my list of reasons to have. 

Yeah. I mean, yeah, for sure. We, we, we had a nanny and, um, our nanny is amazing. And we've, you know, she was with us for years and she was a part of our family.

Literally she's not with us helping anymore, but she's still a very big part of our lives and we stay in touch. The kids certainly stay in touch. It was really hard, um, for me as a parent, knowing that someone else is helping to take care of your child, but. At the same time, you feel like, again, um, you bring them into your home.

They're a part of your family and you kind of, I don't know, you're appreciative of it. You want to trust your judgment in picking someone that you picked, right? You have to, of course, have your antennas up all the time,  but. At the end of the day, you do need that help. Now, I'm sure we'll get into it later in the conversation, but a lot of my feelings of guilt and such played into, um, my decision later to step away from medicine and actually be home with my children when I was pregnant with my third child. 

Oh, we definitely going to talk about that. Okay, but I do have one more question about your nanny because I see a lot in our groups, people who are residents and they say, Oh, that advice of get all the help, hire help. I can't afford it. So how did you all navigate that? 

That's a, again, that's a good question.

I mean,  you make things work. People always ask like, how do you make this happen? How do you make that happen? Like you make it work when you're a resident, you're not making a lot. We were just coming out of. Medical school, you know, where the cost is quite hefty. And so you have to make things work. We lived in the housing that was given to us.

We decided not to live in the city. My husband was at Mount Sinai doing a residency. I was at Montefiore in the Bronx. We could have chosen the New York City, um,  And  we chose the Bronx housing for a different reason, but certainly would have been more expensive in the city. , you choose, you know, to eat out less, you choose things in your life that don't cost a lot of money.

 Your life decisions can certainly revolve around. How much money is coming in and you really do make it work. You know, you don't go shopping at fancy places. You don't buy a really top car. , so I do feel like a lot of those decisions you make, of course, together, um, with your partner and,  you just, you make it work.

Yeah, I think that's really important, too, because not having the help in residency or even when you're out and struggling, to me, is just not an option. So, so you just make it work. Yeah. I agree. So, you need help.  So the second baby was attending hood. How was it different? Was it just like a relief?

Like, Oh my God, this is great. Well, how was it different?  

I'm thinking back to my second one. Well, first of all. It was different because they were different babies. So  unrelated to my status in life,  the babies were totally different and had different personalities and it was notable. And I think back to the time and I think  Was it a result of like the environment?

Cause that's a possibility. The fact that I was pregnant during my intern year. And so my son was probably exposed to a lot of adrenaline and a lot of sleepless nights. Um, I wonder if that played into. You know how he came out, which again, he's now like a beautiful, smart, um, well accomplished 20 year old that's doing well in college, but certainly at the, as a baby, at least as a little kid, he gave us a run for our money.

Like he was difficult.  Um, and I'm laughing at it and I'm saying it openly and I'm actually laughing cause he's literally in the next room probably listening to me. He's here. from college visiting, but my second son that came out was just like this super  like complacent and good and did not give us a run for our money just was like really easy.

So I feel like it's very difficult to compare, um, because I of their personalities, but yeah, I think attending hood is easier because the attending job that I chose didn't necessarily have. Overnight call. And so I was waking up just with the baby and not necessarily waking up because my beeper, uh, was going off, et cetera, that this is dating me with a beeper.

But no. 

Hey, I had a beeper. 

Did 

you? Oh, good. Yes. I was in that transition. Every, a lot of things changed when I was in residency, like there was no robot. And then suddenly there was a robot, all sorts of things. Yeah. Okay. So tell me about what happened to make you then say, okay, third, baby, I'm going to step back.

Like, what was that change like for you?

I think, I don't know what it was. I think again, the guilt really got to me. I thought, and I actually, it's funny. I lectured about this at a conference at an in person conference. I lectured about wanting To take time off of work of clinical medicine because I felt that I wasn't the best mom that I could be and I wanted to connect with my child and then having done it, I realized that  I didn't need to take time off to connect with my child.

Like I had connected with him in the way that I had connected with him. I was still mom and he was still my son and they were still my sons, but that, I needed to connect with myself like more than like I needed to figure out what my role was and what does it mean for me to be a mom? And what does it mean for me in general to be here in this lifetime doing what I do?

 And of course that led for me to a lot of life changes since then that have actually shaped my life. The trajectory of my, my career.  

Oh, my 

God. Um, I'm 

like on fire. I love,  love that. Yeah. I don't know how much you know about me, but that is like my thing because  you see it so much is the guilt and it's not that the guilt is bad.

I think it's normal, especially as physicians who are away so much, especially if you have a specialty like mine, I'm an OBGYN. I'm on call. I'm gone. It's just like, I need to be home. I need to spend more time and it's not the quantity of the time. It's the quality. And also making sure that the thing that is giving you that disquiet isn't your role as a mother or how much time you're spending, but is it that you don't know what you want, right?

You are not honoring your inner desires. You aren't following your dreams. And usually. Doing that first, connecting with all of those things and then following that, that's what gives you that satisfaction and then can pour into your family from the fullest cup ever because you are satisfied in, in your life.

And I always tie it back to having help because, You have the time to figure out all that stuff. So  I am so happy that you are here talking about this because we can see it at the end, right? And we have somebody who's been through it all because many people wonder about stepping away, 

but 

for you to have stepped away and then like, eh, it wasn't all it cracked up to be.

, I just, I really appreciate that, that perspective. So. I just want to know a little bit more about how it was when you step back, like, what did you enjoy? What did you hate?  Tell us a little bit about that.  

Um, what I really enjoyed was stepping away from medicine and starting to discover those aspects of life that I never gave time to, that I never made time for.

So, it's Those everyday things and activities that  people that aren't doctors, they almost take for granted that folks like us, we just don't give the time for because we don't have it. So I'm talking about literally things like cooking meals, you know, um, baking some yummy cookies, um, making your home, your rooms in your home, just more livable, more.

exciting to be in, um, hosting people, making friends. I mean, even friendships that cannot properly sometimes be nurtured when you are so busy, or maybe when you take that role of doctor. So, so many aspects of life that, um, again, for me specifically, I'm not talking about everyone else, but for me specifically, like I took for granted and never had time to actually dive into.

I suddenly was giving them the time of day, and I was like, finding myself literally in love with these activities, you know, cooking a meal like who would have thought right, but giving myself the opportunity to actually cook a meal and see that I could cook something delicious that everybody lapped up not only made me feel good, but it was also really good for the family, like, But saving money, not ordering in, not eating bad food, being able to control what we're actually eating.

 Yeah, 

 I think that's great. Not about the cooking in particular, because I know for sure I'm,  that's not,  but I love that you found that for yourself. Right. 

And when I say cooking, like there were so many other things, I mean, I literally suddenly had time to. To find like vintage used things for the household from nearby that I would pick up, let's say a garage.

I, first of all, I never even went to a single garage sale all my life, gave that a moment and Would bring home these things that were recycled. So you were recycling the environment, you were bringing in something with meaning and then like making it cooler or refurbishing it or doing like, I spent time doing that and it was really soul opening because again, I never even thought about stepping foot in a place where you can buy something and give it a second life and.

I don't know. There's like more to it than just at face value buying something at a garage sale. So that's another example. Maybe you could relate to that. I don't know.  I can't, but 

I think  it's, I think it's  fine. No, and that's the thing. I, I made a special podcast episode about having interview guests and it's like, It's all about giving people different perspectives because somebody is going to relate to you.

It may not be me. Oh, 100%. Right? Or you can give somebody inspiration. So I love that I cannot relate to anything that you're saying right now. It's wonderful. 

Well, I will say a third example, and I'm going to go for it because I feel like I am not going to be 0 for 3. You are going to say. I also obviously really bonded with the digital world and with. 

With creation of things like podcast and ways to really brand yourself and niche down on a topic that you want to concentrate on and to be able to either build a podcast or a website, and then really understand the concepts of marketing and social media as marketing and how you do that. And this is where I am today is that.

I kind of was let here because of all of those realizations, right? Being able to suddenly not only realize that there was an online world that everybody was in, but that it was actually influencing and that there weren't enough doctors in it and that. You know, it would be really great for me to build a website and so on and so forth to where I am today, building my venture, you know, hoping to change healthcare because I do believe that branding yourself as one of the solutions for taking medicine back for doctors.

Got it.  We're 

here. 

That's it. 

Love it. This one worked. This one worked. Phew. But, you know, as you were describing those different things that you found, and even as we talked before, before we started recording about your picture behind and how your home is, I'm getting very creative vibes from you and with everything that you're doing.

Is that something that Had always been that way and you knew about yourself and you rediscovered or was this a brand new thing? 

So many people ask me that question I don't have a straight answer. I I mean  My mother is a very creative person and she really values creativity uh, but I wasn't Necessarily like I was a neuroscience major like I always  to be to like lean into the sciences.

So, um, I use that part of my brain a lot, but again, my mother always really loved art and my parents both love music and opera and classical. And so, um, I guess I was exposed to that, but no, I don't have any like background rearing or growing up, um, like in the back of an art museum, but yes, you got it right.

I am extremely artistic and creative and art and creativity literally like helps me breathe, believe it or not. So I love it. Yeah. Yeah. 

All right. So we know about what you Found that you loved during that time. Tell me what was not so great. 

Hmm.  I don't love being home and not having like something some project or some mission or something that I am working on like I  Really don't like being bored like there's some and not in a bad like some women love the pampering of just You Like sitting and doing nothing and doing yoga and breathing and thinking through things and having that like mental time for yourself.

And I get it. I just can't get into it. Like I'm the opposite. Like I love, and as I get older, I do appreciate more like downtime, but There's something about doing the things that you really love and focusing it into a project where there's a goal. Um, I love it. I'm very goal oriented and very goal driven.

And I really think deep down inside, I am an entrepreneur, um, because of that and why I'm really connected now to doing entrepreneurship, even if it's still in healthcare. But yeah, um, I hope that that answered the question. Yeah, no, 

it did. But I want to just like. Crystallize the scenario in my head. So you are stepped away from medicine.

So you were completely home. Is that correct? 

Yes. 

Okay. And you had a nanny. 

Yeah, I had help. We had reduced the time, but yes. Okay. 

So  the way that you describe the time home was, you know, very relaxed and, you know, you had time to breathe and all that, which is not how I would usually describe the Like being home with young kids.

So was it because you had 

help? You're right. I actually take that back. Did I, did I, I don't, I might've said it wrong then. Definitely not relaxed. Definitely not time to breathe. What I think I meant was that, you know, how like women love those kinds of moments. A lot of people like pampering, for example, like I don't like going to the hairdresser and just sitting there for hours, like, and my hairdresser knows this and we laugh about it, that like, I just don't like being there.

And that's why I'm always with my computer while I'm doing work. Same with like getting my nails done. I'm usually like putting my head down and sleeping. I don't like, and it was. Not quite and not, not hectic because as you can imagine, at that point I had a newborn and two boys. Um, I definitely had help that said by the end, um, I did, um, decide that I was going to do it alone.

And, uh, the nanny and us parted ways before, you know, coming back together when I went back to work. , and. It was not easy at all. And it was not quiet. Three boys is very loud and very hard. Oh, I guess another thing I didn't like, this is good. Actually,  when I was. a new mom especially, uh, I felt very pressured.

Um, not from the outside, but from like an inside pressure because I'm a type a and so somewhat of a perfectionist. I felt pressured to do everything perfect and by the book. So there's two things that stand out to me. One is breastfeeding, which was a struggle that I really just like It was tough  and then the second is, um, feeling like I literally wanted to make my son food that was pure and from like the oven straight to his mouth.

And so I, I literally remember, and my husband reminded me this the other day of how I'd like boil sweet potatoes and then I'd take out the stuff that he could eat and I'd put it in a blender and then I'd scoop it into like the These ice cube trays and then we'd store it in the fridge so that I could when it was time to eat solids I could like we would like warm it on the stove top and literally I could have just bought Store bought canned food for babies and still I was like, no, he's got to eat pure veggies and fruits that I'm gonna make and looking back that's I Didn't love that and I also looking back like it's crazy because it's so stressful and the same with the breastfeeding because I I had, again, maybe TMI, too much information here, but had a very difficult time breastfeeding because he, for many reasons, but the latch, this, that, so we spent like so much time trying to fix it and going to specialists and consultants and trying and this and that.

It just didn't work. So then I tried to pump and I was like, I, when I say almost killed myself, like not literally, but. Like pumping every three hours, every four hours. And I would pump and like, I would pump and pump and pump and bump. And everything would be in the freezer and the freezer would be packed with all the things that we'd like defrost because God forbid you give him formula.

So I regret that too. And I feel like you just are so hard on yourself because you want perfection for your child, but really like,  it's not worth all of that crazy energy that you put into making everything perfect and everything is not perfect. 

Right. And I was laughing so much because I did the exact same thing.

I boiled everything. The only thing was that I had my nanny do it because I had a nanny. I 

love it. 

But  yeah, I did the same thing. I wanted him to have, you know, natural, organic, everything. Never bought anything packaged. Right. None of that. Right. 

And if you can do it. More power to you, but some of us struggle like if you're struggling with breastfeeding and you can't do it Then it's okay to like do it differently.

Yeah, you 

said the first one, but the second one 

she that was  The second one is how I got here So it was it was rough to say the least but when you were doing all those things for the first baby or each baby, 

no, I  Yeah, I learned my lesson with each one. I was probably doing it a bit You For the second, but by the third, it's like, really, I just don't.

And the irony is that I was home. Um, and we weren't necessarily doing that anymore. And again, that's what I found out with my third. I mean, I'd wake up at night. I mean, I actually do think back now. And I remember, cause we moved to this house when I was pregnant with my third. And so I do remember being upstairs when he'd wake up in the middle of the night and like bringing him in and still warming up The food.

So some of that, yes, but certainly less and less. The first one was like a lesson in  what not to do to yourself to drive yourself nuts.  

So wait, you know, I just realized this was during residency. You were doing all, I wasn't attending when I was doing that stuff. Right. That is wild. It 

was hard. And again, I did have, the nanny would help.

So like she would be able to, you know, defrost certain things. Um, whether it's the fruits and veggies when he was able to eat, um, solids versus when, uh, I was really, I was pumping and I was pumping in  residency. Like I remember I needed to like find closets where I was and take like 15 minutes away with like, I remember carrying like my pump and just doing it.

It was, yeah, I'm thinking back on that time. Like, again. Those were tough times. I don't necessarily think back on, and no, I don't know that anybody thinks back on their residency, like with joy and smile, like, whoa, it was fun, but it was like really a hard time. 

Yeah. I 

cannot, I 

cannot imagine,  

but you made it. 

Yeah. I made it. I'm a happy person. My kids are great. Right. Hopefully they're healthy and appreciative of me, I think. So I'm sure they are. Thank you. 

I want to know what was going through your mind when you were like, yeah, I need to go back to work. Tell me how you had that transition. 

Part of me didn't want to go back to work. I loved not being home and not working, but I loved being home and Doing all these new things that I had discovered. And so I had this like weird,  like promise to myself that I was going to somehow mesh the healthcare world with these newfound talents that I had.

It wasn't just these hobbies that I found. I actually. Felt like I was talented in these new things, not necessarily just cooking and baking, but also like design and the digital world, especially. And, you know, I vowed to myself that I would somehow find a mesh. A blend of where the digital world meets health care.

 Then at some point I just was like, I can't  do this anymore. Cause I hadn't found that solution. I was like, I don't know what that solution is. So I need to go back to work because I've literally spent 30 years of my life becoming a doctor. What am I going to just like throw it away? It didn't make sense.

And so I almost felt like I had to go back to that traditional way of being a doctor. Um, not because I wanted to, but because I felt like that's where I belong. That's what a primary care doctor, an internist was supposed to do.  So I did, I, you know, look for jobs, got one really quickly nearby, um, worked in a practice and went back part time.

I had done part time after residency too, but did part time. And, uh, yeah, I'll let you ask the next question because so much has happened. 

Yeah, no. And I think that will resonate with a lot of people that feeling that I can't throw this away. I spent too long, too much time, too much money, especially the loans, the, all of this, I throw away my skills.

I owe it to my patients. Like it is a very, very common thing to feel, but when you went back and you started.  How long was it  until you were like, Hmm, maybe not? 

Yeah, I would say somewhere around five years. Oh, you mean a long time? Five years of hard time. Yeah, it was a long time. I worked in a practice here and then I, uh, switched to a practice up north that was a bit farther away, but was in my husband's, uh, health system that he was working at.

And  it was there that I finally made the decision to step away from clinical medicine.  

Mm. And what kind of feelings did you have surrounding that?  Very difficult. Like 

every feeling that you can think of, And very bad feelings,  and, and those feelings were also in sort of, don't want to say inflicted on me by outside factors too, but they were like.

What are you doing? You're supposed to do this. Like that's not what a doctor is supposed to do. And how did you just do this? And by the way, inclusive of having written an article for Medscape, they reached out and I, um, agreed to write an article about my leaving and they specifically didn't want my reasons.

Cause first I turned in that they wanted to know my, like family's response to me leaving. And so I wrote that and I got creamed. by some of those responses on, in my article, again, at the time I had very thin skin today, I have thick skin and I don't care. You can throw any insult you want my way.

I know that I'm a good person and I know that I do good things like,  and I'm willing to take criticism, but it's not going to hurt me like it did then. I mean, I had doctors in these comments saying I was a waste of  I was a waste of a student and I, I, I actually get where they're coming from. Like that, that they thought I was a waste of space.

Cause I'm now leaving clinical medicine. But for me, that wasn't true because having gone through all of that actually helped me to do what I am today in doing things like advocating for physicians and actually having built what I've built this huge venture whose mission it is to promote the. Autonomy of healthcare, you know, professionals.

If I didn't do what I did, I wouldn't know what I know today. And so I don't think that I was a waste of space, but again, that was just one common, you know, I comments like, um, Your husband, you know, must be so, just like random comments that were like, if seriously, like, that's what you're going to say.  Say all sorts of things behind the computer, man.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. And, and it makes you stronger. The truth is like in hindsight, it hurt at the time a lot. And over the years, like I've not only kind of. been able to grow thick skin from having experienced that again and again, but it almost like makes your cause stronger because you now have answers for those things.

Like you can confidently say why what they're saying is not true or why you don't think that that's right. Um, and I don't know, I think that's great to just be a more confident person about what you're doing, especially because you're happy. 

Yeah. And being on social media has definitely made  my skin very thick.

Yes. Because initially I would have to like, come, cause I used to create for Tik TOK before I started coaching and OBGYN content on the internet, especially Tik TOK is not an easy, it's not an easy place to be. So I would just have to come off and be all depressed and tell my husband I can't do that.

Totally. Now I'm just like. Whatever. Exactly. 

There's a lot of judgment, right? There is a lot of judgment. And again, it's up to us to curate like how much we want to put out there and share of our private lives versus how much is curated and just kind of presented for social media sake. Yeah. 

Right. 

So 

through all of these transitions, how were your boys reacting to you being through all these different stages 

when they were young, they didn't know any different thing.

You know, I was just mom. Certainly, I feel so much more connected to my boys now, but I also think that it's just a matter of time. And the fact that when they do grow older, they become even more human, um, and less, less needy in some ways, and like more independent and autonomous.

And so you can like have really, Smart discussions with them and they like have their own personalities. I'm so, so proud of each of my boys. So,  you know how they re you know, they loved me all along the way. There were of course moments where I felt resentment and I felt jealousy towards others that they would show love to, whether it be the nanny or sometimes.

My parents, it's hard for a mother to hear their child, you know, looking at someone else and regarding them as the parent when they're not the parents. Um, so that, that takes its toll on you and that probably contributes to those feelings of guilt.  But looking back, I, I  don't know that I would change things.

Um, and I've lived life the way that I've lived it. And  I do feel like I've raised  great kids so far. And so I, I'm, I'm proud of that. 

Yeah, that's lovely. So when do you think they became that like autonomous, I can have intelligent conversations like what less needy. So basically I'm saying, When, when is the light,  please tell me, 

I knew that's where you were going. 

Um, there's so many stages of those lights. It's almost like you see like a crack in the door and then the door opens wider and wider. Um, well, when they start talking is amazing because they can actually communicate with you. Awesome. But  I think that when they get to the age where they can like independently For example, walk to school, like if your school is within walking distance and they can independently walk to school, you've reached a level where it's like, okay, my child literally can ambulate and take himself to this, this space where they're going to spend the next seven hours.

Amazing. That's already one less ride that I have to give them.  Our town, you know, not everyone lives within walking proximity to the school, but we do. Um, so that's amazing. And then high school is amazing because they just are like,  they're like, their personality is taking shape.

So, I mean, they're, they're not always easy because the hormones are raging, but they're certainly like. Developing a personality. And I love that. I love seeing like the different traits that come out and then the ultimate awesomeness, the ultimate awesomeness, even though it's so hard, cause you're saying goodbye to them cause they go to college, but like the ultimate awesomeness is when they are college day children.

And you just are like,  you are an independent thinking human that literally I made.  So that to me is the ultimate is when they really are like. A senior in high school and ready to go and you're like releasing them out to the wild  And you know, they're going to come back, but because you're the parent at the end of the day, but you also just feel really good that they're a human that can like have their own independent conversations outside of you.

And  you know what I mean? So, yeah, I don't know. It's like bittersweet. I love them when they're in high school and they're like independently thinking and they talk, but in college, they're like, So smart because they're being challenged, but they're just not around with you to have enough conversations.

Yeah,  

it's so sweet. 

One day for you when your kids are older. It's just a long time away. It is. It is. Okay. But it comes like, like in a snap of a finger. Your child will be graduating high school. Exactly. 

That's what everybody says. Yes. So I do have one question. Yeah, one really big question that I'd like to ask people who have older kids. 

Do you think, and I'll say for your college age son, did he need you more when he was like, say, six and under? Baby, baby? Or when he was teenager 

or 

now?  

Um, if I had to pick one, I'd say teenager, hands down. Or like, at least,  I feel like when they're young,  like, they need to like be, be fed. So like you just stick a bottle in them.

I mean, you need to give them love. You need to give them warmth, but others can do that. I think that what really counts more than any other time is that really important time period where they are independently thinking humans that you're communicating with and that. Your role modeling too, and that you can have discussions with.

Um, and I think that that really matters. Of course, college matters too, cause they're still sort of looking up to you, but by then you're sort of, they're already shaped and they're already independently thinking there's only so much you can sway, but I think that those transformative years, when they look up to you and you actually like make a difference more than just sticking a bottle in their mouth or feeding them that, that those carrots that you boiled and that you then shredded and froze. 

Um, it matters that it's you or at least a good role model more than in the times when they're helpless.  

Yeah. And thank you for that because I have all these strong stances.  But I have no proof because my kids are still young, right? But you know, I observe people. I'm I'm an observer Yeah I'm an empath of all these things and I hear people and it makes sense and I've actually polled people on this as well because Maybe it's a justification for the things that I'm doing in my life right now.

Who knows? But it's just like, it makes sense that they are going to need you more when they're in that hormonal transition, middle school, high school stage. So I tell people like, if you want to do big things, make huge moves, adjust your life so that you're heading towards that dream life status. Now's the time to do it.

But it's always like, Oh no, I'll wait. They're too young. I'm 

Yeah, I think so. I really do. Again, there's nothing that dictates the way that anybody should be, but there's  better ways, worse ways. I mean,  the amazing thing to definitely leave your audience with is that children are resilient. So no matter what you do, you're not breaking them.

I mean,  They're going to survive. They're incredible.  And you know, cause some people go through hard times in parenthood. Some people get sick. Some people go through relationship changes and divorces. So, um, what happens happens. your child, as long as your child feels that you love them,  that's obviously the most important thing. 

Amazing. You heard it from an expert. She's been through it. So tell our listeners a little bit more about all the amazing things that you are doing, that you discovered the seeds were planted in that time that you were home. 

Yeah. So , I, am, someone who is a digital entrepreneur and a digital builder, I build websites and I, um, build ideas around the tools that are existing today and sort of how to take advantage of those tools in ways that have not yet been taken advantage of.

That's kind of my. Hidden talent and specialty. Um, I've used those skills to build a venture of my own, a website called doctors on social media. com. Um, behind that website also lie different communities, but the main one of doctors that are entrepreneurial and really want to grow themselves, their brand, their private practice, whatever it is that they're doing.

Everyone does different things. They're coaching, they're speaking. Um, and I've really grown it into the websites now . It's a health care innovation hub and a media site. We have three public arms, their content directories and conferences that  I'm running almost every month on different topics and making them free while they're live virtually, um, and just doing really amazing work that I think I hope is impactful to the doctors that are involved.

And, um, I hope to continue doing it and making impact and even if it closes one day, then moving on and doing yet another thing that makes me happy.  

Amazing. And all of that while raising three boys. Yes, 

of course. 

Yeah. Yeah, this has been amazing. Um, I really enjoyed this conversation and I want you to leave our listeners Like I said, most of them are just like me. My babies are one and four What do you wish you knew back at this stage or any any piece of advice that you want to leave 

us with? At one and four when like around the stage.

Yeah I would probably reiterate something that I touched on when we were talking and that's that  as long as you try your best, um, it's not going to be wrong. Like, I do think that you need to really  retain your, uh, your sanity. And you really do need to focus a bit more on yourself probably than you're giving to your children.

You're probably overdoing it on how much you're giving them and don't neglect yourself. Like it's okay once in a while to go out to a dinner with your husband just to take a break and it's okay sometimes to like take a sitter and have them put them to bed. And if they don't go to bed perfectly one night, then that's okay too.

Like that's not going to ruin life. So I think just, Forgiving yourself is probably the best advice that I have for any new mom  and you know, I did 

not pay her to say that I didn't ask her to say that  you sound just like me. I love it. I love it. All right. This has been wonderful. Dana, thank you so much for your time and your generosity with all of your stories.

Um, and yes, you said at the beginning, I do get quite personal. Usually people are shocked at how many things they start saying. I know. 

I'm like, wait, did I really just say that? Don't tell me. 

But it's going to help. And that's the whole purpose of this podcast, Stethoscopes and Strollers, is to help other physician moms feel a little more seen and a lot less alone.

And the only way that we can feel that way is to hear other stories. And I think it's really important to hear from people who've been through it. Because when you're in it, it's just like, you cannot imagine that there is an end. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for building this podcast.

I think it's such an important niche and I'm glad that you're filling that, that void for physicians.  Thank 

you. Thank you. All right, doc. I will see you on the next episode of stethoscopes and strollers. Do not forget, leave us a five star review. If you're on Apple podcast, write a review, tell us how great we are.

Donna's waiting. She'll, I'll send her a screenshot of it, of this, your review for this podcast  and share it with another physician mom. And I will see you next time. Bye. 

Thank you.