42. Part Two | Behind the Scenes: A Raw Conversation with My Husband About Our Early Parenthood Journey

Hey doc, in this special episode of ✨Stethoscopes and Strollers✨, my husband Adé joins me for an intimate conversation about our journey through early parenthood. We dive deep into the challenges, transformations, and lessons learned along the way.

From navigating those early postpartum days to rebuilding our partnership, we share openly about:

• How becoming parents changed our dynamic
• The impact of postpartum struggles on our marriage
• Our breaking point and path to healing
• The power of understanding each other's experiences
• Building a stronger partnership through challenges

Key takeaways:

• Early parenthood challenges affect both partners differently
• Support is crucial for relationship survival
• Communication breaks down gradually but can be rebuilt
• Understanding your partner's experience matters
• Strong partnerships require intentional work

Doc, the journey through early parenthood isn't easy, but with the right support and understanding, your relationship can emerge stronger.

Remember to subscribe to "Stethoscopes and Strollers" on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode of encouragement and empowerment.

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Transcript

 Hey, doc, this is part two of this special episode with me on my husband a day where he tells his side of the story. So I let you get right into it.  

 Okay, so let's actually turn to you, Latoya. Your suffering,  stressed out, lonely,  you know, change the words if you want to say more. What were you thinking about Ade's experience? Did you know that  he just really wasn't actually paying that much attention to his experience or your relationship?

He was just focused on the actions that needed to be taken. to care for your two lovely children. 

 My experience of his experience was that he was focused on  his experience not our experience and not mine.  So that is what I struggled the most with. Is that I felt  that I had all these things going on  and there was not enough attention to my children.

On me, and he didn't have the limitations that I had. He didn't have to figure out breastfeeding. He didn't have the pain of breastfeeding. He didn't have the coccyx pain that I was having.  Yes, we were both tired and all of that. But it was a very distinctly different experience that I was having. 

And he seemed to be okay.  And I knew I was not. 

And did you ask him for help? And he just Yes.  And do you remember being asked Adé ? Like, was it clear enough? I mean, there's a memory at play here, but it's also very plausible. I think it's often that a woman asks and doesn't realize  a husband hasn't perceived it because it has been too inferential rather than explicit and direct and clear. 

No,  I don't think I realize it. I don't remember her asking and  I would partly blame like the armor I had up before,  right? So it's like, even the ask would just be more help, but then it's like more help to say you don't like something. Like I'm, I'm over that. Like, no, I'm going to do what my half of the work is or whatever, you know, I was thinking at that time.

And then that's that,  so yeah, looking back, it wasn't the most  elegant way to,  to deal with that situation,  but it was the route that made sense for the version of me that existed at the time. 

And something you said.  Made me realize. So we had arguments about what I thought we should be doing and what I needed.

But there was a significant  amount of  silence and deep burning resentment when he would say and do things.  

Wait, wait. Silence and deep resentment on a Dave's part or on your part? I say me. 

Yeah. And so one.  moment, as you can tell, he said, he mentioned it before, my memory is quite good, but these moments, like, stick in my mind like movies.

It was very soon after Ayo came home, I was on the bed, I think I had her in my hand, and he was on the floor, and he said,  you know, I'm so tired, we just need to figure out a more equitable way. To, deal with the sleep, you know? And I just remember wanting to like, stab him in his eyeballs at that point.

Because  the, I think it was the use of the word equitable. 

Okay, so LaToya. I'm anticipating, if we've done our job well today, that physician moms are going to love listening to this conversation, and they're going to share it with their husbands, some of them. Right. So, rather, like, where the two of you are, you can laugh at how hysterical it is that Adé  said he wanted the sleep to be more equitable, and the two of you, it's like you're flirting as you say that.

The energy is awesome.  But, there may well be someone listening who's like  What's the problem? Equitable sounds great. So, would you please share your thought process, either one of you, on why that was so funny and misguided?

Yeah, I think I'll go first since I  had to make the most changes.

I think , it's a very, it's a ridiculous statement because at that point,  nothing about this is equitable.  Right? Everyone needs to do what they can to get us where we want to go. Right? This is a brand new baby. The mom has done her part. The baby's here. Anything you can do, do. So if you focus on anything being equal or equitable,  you're missing the point.

Right? We're not here for this thing to be kind of 50 50. Anything you can do, do. So, if someone is listening to this,  especially like guys like myself at the time,  understand that it's not going to be equitable. That's not the goal here. You need to do everything you can. Now, if you've done everything you can,  then that's where equitable is.

That's where your point is, if you've done everything you can. But, I do have some friends, I don't, wouldn't call them friends, but acquaintances. And  I would hear them talk, even being in the military, you would hear guys talk about their experiences when the mom had the baby. And you would think  that he wasn't in the family, right?

The way he was talking about it, the way he was discussing it. I didn't, even when I heard it, it was weird, but it was.  I guess looking back it was disappointing on myself to think that of those folks and then kind of become that guy. When I'm asking 

an equitable version of sleep. Like, what? Like, I don't know, that doesn't even make sense. So yeah, it's um, But here's the 

thing, where is somebody going to learn that unless you articulate it as beautifully as you are right now? Because for whatever reasons, Most men are not going to learn that if wives go critical to do it and any physician mom who's used to delegating, used to, you know, telling nurses and medical assistants and surgical assistants, like do this, do this, do this, do this. 

Even if it's respectful and not critical, there's only so much of that, that a husband wants to take and feel good rather than  like he's his wife's employee. 

Right.  

So I think there's a lot about how to do it. And what you're saying is so significant.  

Right. But it,  I think it goes back to even before I got married. You have to understand what you want in a partner.  Because you're going to get into situations where the core version of themselves is all that's going to exist after this person changes and goes through their own life and their own journey. So, before you get to the point where

Well, and this is for the men out here who haven't experienced this. You need to understand that this is the person you want to spend that time with because it's not going to be equitable. You're going to feel like, I'm not saying you are, but you're going to feel like an employee. You're going to feel like you're just there to serve.

And maybe you are, but that needs to be a feeling you're okay with. And that's something I didn't understand before the process,  right? It's not about  you. And coming from a man who has had an ego, was very confident, and did accomplish some things in the world, That's  tough to bury, and unfortunately some people who have the same mentality like myself, maybe you make enough money to have a, a night nerd, so you have the help, but you don't have to physically do these things, and that's great for you, but if you're someone who, you haven't got, gotten to that point yet, make sure you understand that this is not a possibility, this is what's going to happen if you bring a child into this world.

So  I'm not saying you need to be 100 percent on board with it, because there is no right time, but you need to understand it's, it's coming up here in the very real future if you make this decision. 

Beautiful. Latoya, do you want to 

add something? , the education needs to be there before you have the kid. Like, these conversations need to be happening before, because I don't even think moms, future moms, realize the extent. Like, you just don't know what you don't know, and there's this,  you know, fantasy of what it is to have a baby, and the reality can be  sobering. 

Yeah, and I think it's very hard to anticipate it, although I'll just very quickly share a story that spoke to me. There's a woman, I can't remember if she was like, She may be a  sociological archaeologist. I don't even know if that's a thing, but a woman who studied cultures and She had three children one.

She gave birth to in the US One she gave birth to when she was living with the Zulu tribe in Africa, and then the third she gave birth to in the U. S. again. And  when she gave birth, the first time it was just the typical American scenario, you know, I don't know, maybe some people brought some food, somebody stopped by and held the baby, you know, whatever, like the typical kind of thing that you experienced, I experienced, most people experienced.

And then with the second baby It happened, like, she was integrated with the Zulu tribe, and so, when  she gave birth, she was treated the way a Zulu woman would be treated, and, um, she basically didn't do anything except for nurse, and go to the bathroom, and rest in her bed, and eat the soup that they brought her for 40 days. 

And she had no responsibilities other than to  Rest, rejuvenate, and enjoy her baby and nurse. And everything else was just handled. People came into the tent with food whenever the older child was cared for. And she described this incredible bond that she had with this baby and also that she got her pre pregnancy energy level back  fairly quickly by the end of those 40 days.

So she had this experience which was so beautiful and enlightening. So then when she had her third baby in the U. S., she did everything she could to kind of mimic that situation, but it just wasn't possible, even though she arranged food and  night nurse, whatever it was that she arranged. And  even with the knowledge and the muscle memory, When she had her third child, she felt that she didn't bond as well, her pre pregnancy energy didn't come back as quickly.

It just wasn't possible without the culture, without the village really having this.  And so, um,  I felt like hearing that story before I had a child just was helpful to know what we're even talking about when it comes down to  why get support and why this conversation about, like, there's nothing equitable about, you know,  needing to rest and rebuild physically, psychically, emotionally, mentally, et cetera.

So,  um, the way you've both talked about that is really beautiful. So moving on,  um,  why don't you set the context, Latoya for going to Adé  to have this conversation before your trip?  

Yeah. So I remember messaging my friends. And so I was I was fortunate in that I had  another physician mom friend who I would text almost daily  and she was,  did I say she was pregnant?

She was pregnant. She had had a child before so she had been through it. She's also a pediatrician. So I had that support and I just remember messaging her like,  I'm so fed up. I want to stop breastfeeding. Can you believe he said this? Like, all of these things. Um, and I don't think she was riling me up, just in case.

I, I never actually thought about that, if it would come off that way. That she was like, you need to leave him. That was not the case. It was pure support, understanding, like, just commiseration. That's all it was, but it was the lifeline that I, I needed.  It was my birthday coming up and we, everybody was going to a trip to Mexico because my birthday is a huge deal.

And I was like, yes, we're going to take this trip. It's going to be somewhere close with one flight. So we chose Cabo because we live in California.  And so I was telling her, I just want to be alone. I don't want him there. And then I said, well, no, I'll miss my babies. So I want to take them with me. But then I won't get a break, which is what I really need.

So I started thinking about who could I ask to come. So I actually, which didn't even make it on the podcast. I don't even know if you know this. It just came to my mind. I messaged a friend of mine, Grace, to see if she could come  with her family. So I was like, okay, well, if the family is coming and another family is there, maybe.

And they couldn't come. And I, I was reaching out to different people and I knew I wanted somebody who was married and somebody who had had a kid. So I couldn't just get any old buddy because I just did not want to join you in Mexico. To join me in Mexico. I didn't want to have to explain, I didn't want to be,  I wanted to be away from the situation, but I didn't want to be alone because it was my birthday, and like I said, it's a huge deal,  but anybody that could have come,  I felt like wouldn't get it, and I just didn't want to have to explain, I, I felt embarrassed, there were all of these emotions,  but eventually I was like, well,  fuck it, like, I will just figure it out, and I'm just gonna go,  so  I, uh, sent the email to cancel the presentation that I was organizing for the CMQCC. 

And then, I think the next morning, I called him into the room and, 

Okay, so, Ade,  LaToya calls you into the room. You have no idea what she's going to say, but what she says is,  Instead of a family trip,  I'm going to go alone to Mexico for a week.  Take us to your heart and mind in that moment, please.

 It, it takes me a while to process information, well, process information with people I care about. With people I don't deal with, with anybody else I process pretty quickly. So, first it didn't make sense, right? This, she's not an alone type of person. So even if, and I'm not saying it has to be with me, but it would have been with somebody, with a friend, with family. 

If one of us is somewhere alone or recharged, that person is me. So it's like,  you're doing my thing, that's odd, right? And then the more I thought about it, the more I realized.  I wasn't at the time, and I'm still working on being able to express my feelings. Right, how I'm feeling, because that's not something I,  um, I was trained in growing up.

So I didn't know how to express my feelings, but I knew  I don't know how to express my feelings,  and my patience is short. Very, very short. So I'm like, okay, I don't know exactly what I'm feeling,  but I'm not gonna deal with this.  So,  let me do everything I can, because in my mind, if it doesn't work, what I really cared about is  Did you do everything in your power to make this work?

That's an answer I would need for myself independent of my wife So I'm like, okay  That's one of the next steps and that's when I got the ball rolling kind of looked up the questions and like, okay I'm going on this trip  because if I'm not going again, I'm not saying this to her But I know for myself  if I don't go on this trip, it's the beginning of the end I don't know how long the end will be I think Pretty short, because like I said, I have no, I have no patience, but I, I knew that pretty soon after, I would say, the next, the next couple hours after I was processing.

You looked up the questions before we left?  

Yes. 

Oh, I did not know that. I just found out today. 

Okay, so what questions did you look up? Because when you were saying that, I was like, Are there questions to ask your wife when she says she wants to go alone on vacation with a, when you, and leave a two month old and dad and two year old at home?

Right. I went to Google, of course, and I think I typed in just like something along the lines of like  20 questions to get to know your spouse better. And then of course, you jump in a rabbit hole, you're on this blog, because people have a lot to say about relationships, you know, on this blog, on that blog, and then I found some questions. 

That, to me, made sense, and they were really open ended. You couldn't yes or no them or give a short answer. These were,  I think, thoughtful, well thought out questions. I remember grabbing that and just, okay, this is my starting point, and then 

Okay, but the way LaToya tells the story 

is you 

said, if  you go by yourself, that's gonna be the end of us.

I'm coming with you.

Right. 

Okay, well, I want to hear that from you, because That, that's quite a move. Like my patience was like extremely low. I think there were a lot of things  about me, quite frankly, that allowed us to succeed that had nothing to do with me and my thinking. There's just qualities that I have that  lend towards ending up how we ended up. Um, and it's pretty unfortunate.

I'm glad we have a platform like this. Because,  I shouldn't have to have those innate things in order to succeed. I should be able to learn how to succeed and then you learn what to do and you kind of execute on that. Um, but I just knew  I couldn't,  there was too much, too much oscillation, like I can't be in or out and then I'm wondering and you're on eggshells kind of with another person.

 I don't want to live like that. And  I know was at the time a more binary person. So either we're on or we're off. My patience is low, and I'm a binary person, so I felt like it was the only, the  only real card I had to play, like, hey, this is,  this is it. 

Well, the thing that I find really extraordinary is that you had paid enough attention to really know your wife to know  it didn't make sense that she was going by herself. Like, that was not Latoya as you know her. Right. Right. And you paid attention, so I just think that, like, really having paid attention and knowing who she is, such that this didn't fit with everything else you knew about her, that is something that is very significant.

And the other,  is that, from my perspective, thinking as a relationship and intimacy coach, one of the things that is so challenging about the scenario the two of you were in, was is that LaToya felt she was holding the whole thing together.  It included criticizing you and telling you what you needed to do differently, but that was all part of holding her family together,  not feeling super successful about it, but feeling like all that responsibility was on your shoulders.

Is that fair to say, LaToya?  Yes. And so, you Adé  saying, If you go, It's going to be the end of us. I'm coming with you. That does two things. One is  you assert some leadership and she's no longer holding the whole thing herself. And the other is that  in your signature action taking way, you expressed how much you care because  the armored easy thing to do would be, okay, let me know if you want me to pick you up from the airport.

So, those are awesome. Okay, so, you head off, and how are you feeling about this trip before you land in the sunshine? 

, I feel good. I don't think I put too much worry on it, right? I feel good at this point. I'm ready to kind of get to the conversation. First of all, getting ready to enjoy Mexico as well.

The house we stayed in was pretty nice, um, we got a nice little drink package, you know, so. 

For 

alcohol we still have. 

Yeah, 

got way too much alcohol. 

That's amazing. Okay, so what about you, Latoya, how are you feeling in terms of the relationship dynamic as you're packing and, you know, heading to the airport and wondering what this week is gonna be?

Well, I know you remember this because you just listened to the episode. Yeah. But there's a lot that I actually don't remember. It's, it's a blur. So I cannot answer. I don't remember how I felt. And a lot of what was in that episode was because of that friend that I was messaging to refresh my memory.  I, I don't remember how I felt.

Okay. Well, 

you know what? I think that response is highly valuable because while we're in it, we cannot imagine forgetting it. Like I remember having.  Disdain for my mother in law because she couldn't remember certain milestones of my husband like what do you mean? You don't remember where he was when he started walking.

I was like so disgusted with 

her 

I've got four children and if you start asking me milestone questions I'm just gonna hope it happens to be one that's stuck and so the fact that  The two of you don't remember I think that's It's really encouraging that  it's kind of like people talk about childbirth.

I mean, I don't know if you're an OB if this is quite as true because you see it all the time, but you know, in the lay population, we, we hear that people forget how intense and painful childbirth can be as soon as the baby's out. Well, similarly,  you know, you two have  an extraordinary collaborative, highly equitable marriage and It's, it's actually really encouraging that you don't remember these sordid details.

Like, that is awesome. So, , what should we hear about what happened in Mexico, if anything? 

It was great.  Therapist.  Oh. Oh yeah. We, that was Mexico? Yes. We, we gotta, um How do we get her? Through your insurance? 

Through, like, BetterHelp.

Maybe, 

maybe BetterHelp. 

Yeah, no, not maybe. So, a friend recommended BetterHelp to me, which is an online app where you can just, you know, get a therapist. And they have a relationship branch that's called, I think, Regain or something? So, I signed up through that to get a therapist, because we actually had a therapist before, That was, that was through work, a marriage therapist, and she was nice, and she helped us, but then she stopped, um, taking clients because her mother was ill, and then we never went back, so we had experience with therapy,  and, you know, we were in this dire situation, so he agreed, and we, um, found somebody, and had a session, and, um, the session was terrible, she spent, say it was 40 minutes, she spent, 39 minutes talking about herself.

That was crazy, 

right? 

I was absolutely insane. 

Yeah, and then actually that bonded us to get like 

right right the common enemy  Like this person is terrible all her degrees and certifications, which is nice and it's but it's like how I felt about my wife Good for you, right? Well You're here for us It was yeah 

So I think after that is when we did the questions, which is why i'm surprised to hear that you had them before You  Because it came after the therapist appointment. 

Okay, that's awesome. So, if, each of you were to say something to your younger self, meaning 15 months ago younger, or before, you know. 

Right.  

Like, what wisdom, what, what would you say in hindsight, because I,  I just really, actually, before I even ask that question, I know that the two of you have a marriage that  does not  include any of this kind of  peculiar, inevitable miscommunication, is just how I'm, kind of a benign, um.

Summary of everything we've been talking about so far, but like that's not part of how you are with one another. So, so let's have you presence that. So how is your marriage now Adé  is, is Latoya critical towards you? 

 She is, but I, I'm just different now. Right. The armor really isn't there.

 If it's good criticism, I go with it. If it's not good, then we, we talk about that as well and vice versa. I think what I would,  what I would tell my younger self is I would always hold back a lot  because  my delivery at the time was terrible. 

Professionally, I was an A plus communicator. Personally, I  think maybe a D, D minus, but at the time I'm relating to how I communicate professionally to  my personal life, but it was just like, I would hold back because if I told her how I really feel,  we would have issues. And then my delivery would be emotionally charged.

So then that's not good. So what I would tell myself is  relax, find a way to talk to your wife, but tell her she's you know she's a very competent person and also sometimes she doesn't handle what you say Well, not because of  what you're saying. It's how you're saying  So just work on how you say it and then get it off your chest It helps her understand where you are and it helps  You because now you're not so upset.

You're not so angry. You're not wound so tight. but yeah, that would be 100%. Uh,  15 months ago,  30 days ago, yesterday, that's information I would give myself. It's just like, Hey, just communicate, kind of not relaxed, but  get it off your chest, if you have a problem in your relationship, it's  a problem for both of you.

Awesome. What about you Latoya? The younger self 

question. 

The younger self, but first What do you want to say about the quality of your marriage now, as distinct from the challenges we've been focusing on?

We are very firmly a partnership now.  Our communication skills have 10x, 100x, I don't know, a million, and that has been the change for, for everything. So we still have arguments, we still have disagreements.  We can deal with them so much better and he talks about holding things back and  I was doing that as well. Holding things back and being silently indignant and letting the resentment grow,  that puts you in like a martyr situation that  sometimes, you know, it feels good. Like I  Remember telling my friend, you know, I'm the only one who can fill in the blank. 

It's like, well, 

well, well, no,  no, that's not actually true. You're the only one that can do it exactly like you want it, but you are not the only one that can do it.  So  I'm going right into what I would tell my younger self is two things.  Relax. You are not the only one that can do it. Done is better than perfect.

You And if it is his done,  at least it's done. And that's all that's important.  Because everything else, the consequences of you needing it to be just right, far outweigh, you know, any kind of benefit that this child would have from making sure,  I don't know, the milk is the right temperature. Again, an example that was not a real issue, I just brought it up.

And then the second thing would be  to make sure and resolve the issues from the first experience. Before you have this one, because that was a big thing for me is that, I don't think I realized how  significant that unresolved issue was until, you know, it actually came and resolved. And again, it was that I did not tell him he, I gave him brand new information.

about how I was feeling when I had Asani and, and things like that. So,  um, that's what I would tell my child. Yeah, I 

think that's so good. It refers, I'm thinking of something I said earlier, which is that if you don't talk through what worked and what didn't work with the first child before having the second, do not make the mistake of thinking your partner already knows it if you haven't talked about it.

Actually said it it just you have different experiences becoming parents that yeah, that's so well said well this actually inspired we're gonna say something Adé  

 I was just you talked about this  story with the Zulu people earlier 

Yeah  

and I especially going through this experience especially going through this experience the way we did not having family and um I think that would be the best way to have children. 

The more people that love you, that are around, that can help you,  is the better way to do it. Her saying that she was able to relax, and just feed and bond with her baby for 30 to 40 days,  is amazing.  That would've, a lot of what happened between us would be a non issue. 

So I'm not saying there's some version of utopia, but I think there may be, right? If you have, and of course, everyone's not in this position, especially not in this country. But if you have people that do love you, fly them in, go to them, try to have your kid, and this, I'm speaking to the men, I guess, and the women, the couple, try to get people to help you.

Before you need the hands on deck because that's something when you're talking about equitable that becomes a better statement than when they're so It's two people. It's now it's three four five now Now you can use equitable because everyone just has to do like a half a half hour worth of work So that story really kind of stuck with me and  it's something I felt too and we've had discussions like this and you know This isn't the format for it.

But the way we're bringing children into this world currently,  it doesn't feel  what normal should feel like You  It's a little too high, high stress for not much, for no real reason, but I just wanted to say that out loud. 

And I want to say something else. So, we have a friend who said this to me in the context of having an au pair.

This was way before I ever considered having one. And he was telling me why they have one. And he said, when there are only two people, meaning the parents, somebody is always on. And that stuck with me. It hit me so significantly  because it's true. I hear so many moms or future moms saying, you know, Well, my husband will be there and we'll switch off.

You know, we take shifts and even expanding on that, I'll be off for maternity leave and then I go back to work and then he'll be off. And then, so we don't need help until after. If it's just the two of you, somebody is always on. Either the person is taking care of the baby.  And being resentful for the other person for getting sleep.

Or you're the other person resting and you feel terrible that the other person is now up. Well, hopefully you feel terrible.  You know, it's just like,  it's just an unnecessarily difficult situation to your point.  It just is so much easier and it's so much more normal to have more people around. And if it's your loving family, that just sounds like the ideal situation.

Yeah, I love what both of you are saying and I just want to add that for a mom, it's easy to think that the dad can do the things, pick up the slack, take care of things, and even if a father is able bodied and able to do that, I think we all know  that a woman is going through a lot if she's given birth.

Or even if she's not given birth, surrogate or adoption or whatever, that there's just so much. in the transition of becoming a mother.  And I think there is so much in the identity that  evolves when a man really takes seriously becoming a father. So that even if he's able to, quote, be helpful,  just that shift and what it means to see this small person that you're now responsible for, that is, that is, energizing and draining.

It's not just being able to do the things because you're healthy and able to do it. I mean, there's a piece of that, but I think that when we talk about, you know, the husband's taking over so we can get some rest and just the things that you both said that  it minimizes what it's like for a man to become a father when it's something he takes really seriously. 

And just to bring that back to the experience with Asani, I don't think I had any appreciation for what it meant to him and what his experience was. So for with Ayo, I thought, you know, nobody was focusing on my experience, but definitely with Asani, I gave zero thought to his and what it was like for him, what it was like for him to receive the criticism.

What it was like to have that change of the focus, like none of that. And that's where the armor came from, right. My,  disregard of, of his experience, so I do think that is something that is, um, significant and is so easy to say well, no, this is not important because it pales in comparison to what I went through, but if you want to have a marriage that is strong and lasts, it has to be important.

Important and given attention to. 

Absolutely. And as we begin to wind up, I really want to honor, you know, I've been married 28 years and I can talk about when I had young children with a lot of conviction and wisdom and  expansive insight. But the two of you have an 18 month old and a four year old. This is, this is all  relatively current.

And the fact that you both have.  Such loving consideration of your own and one another's experiences and  just the depth of the partnership and the alignment that is evident both in what you say and in what you don't say, but anyone can hear between the lines. Like, I think that is extraordinary and really inspiring.

Like, I really want to emphasize that yes, the two of you did not just like, Wake up, and there's a rainbow in the sky, and now it's all sunshine. You two have worked your asses off individually and together, and really done profound personal growth to be where you are.  However, I want to emphasize it did not take you that long.

And so for anybody listening, if you get started, and you get the support both in the help and the guidance in how to make these changes, Like things can get better  this afternoon,  

right?  

I want to say something about that because I am really cautious about painting a picture that is unrealistic or is so removed from the quote unquote typical experience that people feel like they cannot connect with it and therefore cannot be inspired by it.

So we had this amazing transformation. We had the trip that was. You know, transformational for us. It continued to be difficult,  and we continued to have to work on it,  and then it got significantly better.  But then, regular marriage continued to be as challenging as marriages can be, when you have two strong people. 

So then we continued to commit to each other and our personal growth and growth in our relationship and have invested significant amount of time and money to do that. So it's not as though  we had the questions in Mexico and then boom, here we are.  It's months of work, it's investing in relationship coaching, if y'all don't know by now, Alexander is our relationship coach, that has gotten us to this level where we can communicate in this way, that we can relay these stories in this way, and it's a priority for us, because this is, this is a priority.

Um, we both put ourselves first in our lives, and then our marriage, and then our kids, and we aligned on that.  And even that took work to get here. So I just wanted to make sure I brought that in just to be as real as possible, which is, you know, the main goal of, of this podcast, well, one of the main goals of this podcast. 

Yes. And the, the learning  never stops, meaning the challenges never evaporate permanently,  The thing that the two of you do embody, and I appreciate keeping it real, is, is the quality of the partnership. It's just really different to navigate these kinds of challenges with young children and feeling misunderstood and feeling lonely and wanting things to be equitable and being sleep deprived and all the different variations on these challenges.

It's a really different thing to do that feeling like  You're each looking in different directions. You obviously want what's good for the children, but you're like,  you're in different countries in terms of how it feels inside versus. The way you've both conveyed and articulated feeling like it's really a partnership.

And I think,  yes, you fight, you, he does things wrong still, I'm sure, you know, whatever, but it's a totally different thing to do that in the context of a marriage, which has kind of the solidity of feeling like it's a partnership. And that is the thing that can change. And then everything else feels different even though  the challenges, of course, do not evaporate.

And they will continue to be the case as the children get older. There are new challenges awaiting you. But you'll navigate them. 

Oh no!  

Actually, that's so something. Something so funny that my husband used to say, in fact, I think he said it to you Adé  once, that, um, the most challenging thing about raising children is as soon as he would feel really confident with one stage of their development, they would suddenly be in another stage, and the tools and the ways of being that he had are no longer a fit.

So, yes,  no one's painting a delusional Disney picture here,  but I don't want to minimize how everything is different when you navigate those challenges, feeling like you're in a super reliable, loving partnership. 

 Yeah, absolutely.

All right. Well, any, Any last words of wisdom for this conversation Adé ?

 Prepare early. Right, don't, don't, basically don't be like me. Don't wait until you're in it to realize like, oh no, this thing could be, headed left. Right?  Act right. Awesome. 

And what about you Latoya and host of Stethoscopes and Strollers?

I want to take the time to thank my husband for  sharing everything that he shared and just for being who he is  because I know it could be a lot different and I really appreciate the generosity, not just with coming on the podcast now, but with. being okay and supportive and encouraging about me sharing our story so widely and so deeply. 

, I don't take it lightly and I really appreciate it. So