74. Part 2 | No Map, No Mentor, No Regrets: Dr. Alexandra Stockwell’s Bold Path in Medicine and Motherhood

We’re back with Part 2 of my conversation with Dr. Alexandra Stockwell, and this half of her story is just as rich and revealing as the first.

If Part 1 was about identity and navigating early motherhood in medicine, Part 2 is all about intention in childcare, career, and designing a life that actually supports who you are.

In this episode, we dive into:

• The “internal invisibility” of returning to medicine after baby and why no one seemed to notice she had changed
• Why she chose not to be an intern at the same time as her husband, and how that decision created real alignment for their family
• The unheard-of residency opportunity she received eight weeks postpartum and how she strategically negotiated her non-negotiables
• Her unconventional medical career: part-time, home-based, holistic, and completely values-aligned
• The quiet inner knowing that eventually led her to close her practice and reinvent herself again this time as a coach
  
  

Dr. Stockwell’s journey is a masterclass in courage, clarity, and honoring what matters most, even when the world around you doesn’t understand it.

✨ Press play to hear how she built a career and family life that never asked her to choose between the two.

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Transcript

Hey doc, so we are back with Dr. Alexandra. We have to take a short break So we took a pause and now we're back and we were talking about when you got the nanny, the second nanny, and you were about to go back now as a medical student to finish off medical school, and I want to know How that experience was like, now that you had been home for what I think was a year at this point, and now going back into to finish now as a mom,
you know, I've been thinking during our pause since we were talking, and these questions are so profound.
And one of the reasons they're profound is I have never thought about them. Never? No. In fact, most of the things that I shared earlier, I've never expressed to anybody, because who would care? Like, people who are not in medicine, none of these matters are relevant. And anybody that I knew in medicine, none of these issues were relevant.
And so there's this kind of profound healing happening for me, just in having this conversation. Even though all this stuff is Tucked away and literally happened 28 years ago. My daughter is 28,
so I'm very clear on exactly how long ago it is and it's really amazing. So what arises with this question you ask is that yes, I took a year off and during that time I grew in the most remarkable ways because first I had three months off without any real focus other than to manage myself, which was a brand new experience in my life.
And then, I mean, and you know, moving around with a third trimester belly and so forth. And then I gave birth and then I became a mother and I just felt like on the inside, I was a different woman. These are transformational experiences. My sense of my place in the world, my internal dialogue, what my attention was on, you know, like just changing diapers was not something that I had as like, yes, I brush my teeth every night, but in terms of changing diapers so often, like I had new habits, just.
I won't detail motherhood because presumably anybody listening already knows all about that. So, the point is that beneath my skin, I was a different woman. And then, I put on my short white coat to do fourth year, and it felt like nothing had changed. And, it was this kind of weird experience that I would say contributed to a sense of internal invisibility because my attendings, I did now have different classmates, but it didn't really matter that much because I was a fourth year medical student.
And so that was not like, it wasn't significant for me that the classmates that I started with had graduated. And now I had a different class that didn't matter because I knew them, some of them anyway. but Whereas before, my singular focus was to take tests, do well, impress the people, and learn all the shit that I needed to learn to show up in integrity the next day.
And now, I was aware when my breasts would get full, my tolerance would go down. For postponing using the bathroom was shorter. I just, like, when I, when my mind would wander, it didn't wander to the Krebs cycle, it wandered to what my daughter was doing. And even leaving the hospital, I'm somebody who would have stayed longer because I really, I was very passionate of, I mean, especially third year, once it was clinical, like, I would stay and see how the patients were, or, you know, take things to completion, and I wasn't, for the standards of a medical student, particularly a workaholic, but I, I really cared about my people, and learning what I could learn, and whatever, but now, it's like, there's this internal tension, because every single thing, That was kind of a choice.
Well, am I gonna stay later? Am I gonna go to that extra lecture? Am I gonna scrub in for this for the learning opportunity? I tended to choose yes, but it was not a smooth decision. So I just feel like on the inside I came alive because now I had this whole other world that nobody else would have been aware of and I'm also intending to emphasize that I did not take being a mother with me into my experience in the hospital in a way that was apparent to anybody.
It was all just inside me.
so how did that affect you? That kind of separation of a part of who you were now, this new motherhood experience?
Yeah, I don't
Or identity?
I don't really know, but I feel like it's relevant. To say the following, so I, it's very funny because I have such a big spread in my, the ages of my children, but at the time, I still had my ideas that came from conditioning and my family of origin and so forth, like wanting to have children in my 20s rather than waiting for 40 and Similarly that I wanted my children to be born closer together So I don't really if you're gonna ask me what was the evolution of this conversation? I have zero memory of it But I do know that what I'm gonna say my husband and I decided but it would have been something that I really was driving And he just was supportive like this would have come from me entirely Is that I didn't want us both to be interns at the same time.
I thought that that would be like having two parents gone. And so, and then when I thought about it more, and I should say that both my husband and I were going into family medicine, so they weren't, you know, six, seven years of residency. This was a three year program. And so, we planned. that he would do his residency and then I would do my residency.
And so I, I really don't remember when that was clear to me, but probably some, sometime during early in my fourth year. So I was a full on fourth year medical student, but I didn't have that, like that internal, fire and stress and so forth. Like I wanted to finish my fourth year. As well as I possibly could, and have all of the letters of recommendations and position and so forth, but I was not actually going into the match.
Like, because it also just seemed so risky, like what if we didn't match nearby? That was an inconceivable scenario, although I know that does happen to other couples, even with children. , so the way that we decided to navigate this was that, He would complete his residency, and then be in attending, and then there would be space for me to complete my residency.
And so therefore, it made sense to have our second child, thinking we would have just two, you know, in this kind of a time frame. So, I got pregnant again, I think in, Must have been, um, of fourth year, intentionally. So, I had my, you know, first trimester and a little bit of my second trimester during the last portion of fourth year of medical school.
So when I graduated medical school, I wasn't visible, at least not under my black cap and gown, but I definitely was pregnant, had a, 20 month old. So, I said all this in the context of your asking how it was to have the split. The reason that this came up as my answer is that basically, I was doing everything that I could to really be successful in completing my fourth year of medical school, but in a way my attention had shifted more towards motherhood.
Yeah, so just a question about logistics. Did you all have like confirmation from someone that you would be able to match after what would have been three years? Because that, that gap, I know somebody, actually a very close friend of mine who graduated medical school and then went to Japan for a year because that's where her husband was at the time and they had been, she was done with long distance and then she came back and matched.
But I had never heard anybody taking three years off, so did you all know pretty confidently that that would be okay?
You know, you ask a superb question, because the fact is there was nobody guiding me, nobody I could have asked these questions to. You have to remember, this was not that long after I went into the dean of the medical school to tell him I was pregnant, thinking that I was going to be kicked out of medical school as a result of being pregnant.
So, I was I, I'm, I mean, I guess, I'm, I'm sure I was not the first woman to have a baby in medical school, but there was no path already forged, there was nobody who had done this, and I was even extremely hesitant about speaking with anybody about it, for fear that, oh, if I talk with this attending, then this is going to happen, and so, like, No, I did not have confirmation.
It never would have occurred to me to reach out to the board of family medicine and ask them or to ask the family medicine program director at the hospital, you know, where I was in medical school, none of that occurred to me. And really I had already, I think I felt like I was on a little bit of a different path just by virtue of majoring in philosophy and mathematics.
Like my. Entree into the study of medicine felt like the path less traveled so to speak
right
and I just had Faith and I figured you know wherever we're gonna be it's gonna be somewhere with a family medicine program because my husband is doing family medicine and I trusted myself to make relationships and figure it out and I don't, look, I don't know how it is now, but back then, I didn't know all of the requirements.
In fact, there weren't as many requirements to maintain board certification and like all of these legalities that are super important, but as a medical student, I still was approaching it more like a student attending an educational institution rather than being on the path of a. appropriately highly regulated and, um, legally binding profession.
You know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't know how much CME was necessary. Right. Right. Right. Because
nobody, how would you know that? Because nobody talks about, any of this stuff as a medical student, any, even now, you just have to kind of figure it out and then hopefully have conversations like these so people can say, okay, go talk to this person because this is what they did.
So I'm glad we're like talking about this now. So actually, this is
very interesting because my daughter who's getting her PhD, uh, I guess I won't even say where, cause I don't know what I'm about to say is private anyway, she's getting her PhD and she applied for a job and she had the interview yesterday. And one of the things that she's going to, that this job entails is, working for the office that helps graduate students on career matters.
And so one of the things she learned in this interview at this, Very, very large, well known university with, I don't know, 40, 50, 60 thousand students. I don't know how many graduate students, but the point is that my daughter, despite being the daughter of two physicians, is very much not on the medical track. She is getting her PhD in viola performance and, , musical pedagogy.
But anyway, she was so surprised to hear that the medical school doesn't have a career development or, or like next steps career office for the students because Each discipline has its own career office and she was like and the medical school doesn't have any and for me I was like, yeah, what like why would they because right?
It's just like there are no questions You just go to the school and you know what the match process is like and then you go to residency And if you don't match I guess you scramble but like there are no questions Why would anyone need any guidance in terms of how it's done? It's set up as opposed to law school, engineering, fashion design, like everything else.
It's expected that you start considering the different post graduation paths. There were never any questions and I actually had no idea that my choice was so ballsy. Like I had taken time off
between college and medical school. Well, sure, I didn't know anybody, but this was what was going to make sense for me.
Our family, for me as a mother, to do this, because I just couldn't bear to have 12 months of both of us, not just the hours, but the stress of being an intern, just meant, like, you know, and I don't come from the kind of family where we send the children to be raised by the grandparents when they're younger.
, I don't have anybody who could have stepped in in that way. I don't have any parent who could have moved in with us. And so it would have, like, I just wasn't willing to do that. That was the one thing I'm clear, I would not compromise on. So no, it was, it was, uh, completely in, in some ways, uh, Irresponsible decision, but I didn't have any of that perspective because I was already doing something that nobody else had done, so this didn't seem particularly that different than taking a year off between 3rd and 4th years, which was something that was very straightforward for me because my husband had taken a year off between 2nd and 3rd years, so it just meant we started together, we ended together, but we each had a year off for completely different reasons.
Yeah. So now that you had graduated and your husband matched, what happened after that?
Well, I had another baby and I was completely immersed in having two children with zero support and loving it actually. Like, I think in the dialogues that you and I are in online, there's a whole lot more talk about how challenging it is, but For me, it was this like, sure, I don't, it wasn't like all unicorn and rainbows, but I really loved having my two young children.
And that's beautiful. Yeah, and, and it was affirming for my decision. There was no part of me that wished that I was heading off when my husband did to do my interning year and no, like it was nice.
Yeah, I think that's the, I just want to pause for a second because it was what was right for you and you were firm in your belief that this was right even before you did it and then had that affirmation.
And I feel like it is a very easy thing to imagine that. People wouldn't even want to honor the first desire of no, I want to take this time off. I do not want to be to intern parents like we would just ignore that. But then all of the regrets, all of all of the extra things that comes with not honoring yourself.
Um, I think it is very significant that you were able to make that decision and then have the pleasure of it being affirmed. And while you enjoyed your two under two, which is sounds. Crazy to me, but was beautiful for you. So I love that.
Yeah, it was and you know, I'm not saying there was no stress I'm not an idiot, but like I felt really good about my decisions and yeah And, you know, because my husband was an intern, it was very much in my face what my choice was, the pros and the cons, if you will.
And you know, I'm just, this is not exactly what we're talking about, but I'm just remembering there was one time when my husband came home post call and the children were already in bed and we were downstairs on our couch and I don't know what it was, but I had something that was really important and bothering me and super irksome.
and disconnected in our marriage. And, like, I'd been waiting, I'd been waiting for like 10 days until he had a time where he was at home and awake and the children weren't underfoot. And so, in my estimation, that was the case. And so I started talking to him and he fell asleep. And, uh, You know, if I was just married, I would have been too much of a people pleaser to do this.
But at this point, like, with the whole context, I just yelled at him. Like, wake up! All I'm asking for is 15 minutes of attention. You have got to listen to me! And I say that because I would have wanted I didn't want to have both of us asleep when interacting with our children. So, anyway Uh, the thing I do want to add though is that there were some, meet the other interns, meet the residents, meet the faculty parties, wasn't that many, but for both the incoming interns and their partners.
And so I made a point of dressing with my almost third trimester belly, in a way that was professional and like, not necessarily. spouse of the intern attire, but more like job interview attire. And I made a point of connecting with the program director
who
had no reason to have known anything about me and saying that I also just graduated from medical school and want to do a family medicine residency.
And, I hope to do it at the program. I don't know exactly what I said now I am a much savvier interviewer, but whatever it was I made sure that He knew of me so that whenever I circled back around it wasn't the first time and that in his Interactions with me and with my husband to any degree it would matter that he had me in the right category Not as stay at home mom, but as a family medicine doctor to be on a temporary sabbatical.
Like I really wanted that in his head when he looked at me.
Yeah. When did the sabbatical end?
Okay. So, um, I graduated from medical school in June of 98 and then our second child was born in November.
And I was in my postpartum bubble to the extent that it's a bubble with a toddler and no help. But anyway, like that's, that's where my mind and orifices were. And so I guess I was thinking of like leaking breasts, but that's not really an orifice. Well, I don't know. Anyway, I don't want to get technical.
So the point is that that's where my attention was. Like I was all in on raising my children and then like eight weeks in, I got a call from the program director who explained to me that there was, this was at UMass, University of Massachusetts, and there was a, a current fourth year medical student who wanted to do a dual family medicine psychiatry residency.
I don't know if that's something that, at the time existed in the country or not, but it definitely was not one of the options at the University of Massachusetts. And he remembered me like I, I didn't appreciate how strategic I actually was. I mean, I shared it now in a way that, you know, with hindsight, but at the time it was, it was just sort of intuitive.
So anyway, He, he said this, this other woman wants to do a dual family medicine psychiatry residency, which he was glad to do. It was, it would make the family medicine residency more appealing if this was one of the tracks that was offered. The problem was that if she did part of her internship year with family medicine and part of her internship year with psychiatry, there would be.
gaps in the schedule and shifts uncovered, so to speak. So he remembered me and wondered, would I have any interest in essentially splitting the family medicine residency with her? So like half the time I would be a family medicine resident, and half the time I would be off. And for her, she would be a family medicine residency half the time, and a psychiatry residency half the time.
But it would make for continuity of coverage for the residency. And, he thought it could be like a win win win for her, for me, and for the program. The program being the most important for him, even if I named it
third. So, I just want to say, what was your reaction? Like, what was going through your mind when he was telling you this?
Because this, to me, sounds amazing and synchronous and, like, all the things. So, what was, what were you thinking?
Okay, well, the first thing I was thinking was, Come on, I have a new baby. Like, I've just relaxed and let go of my medical identity at the top layers anyway of how I'm spending my time, what I'm thinking about.
I connected with other mothers in the neighborhood and like, it took some time, even though it was the second time, it took some time to settle into my life as a a stay at home mother and I
had like just landed in that and was in the delicious phase of not having a brand new baby but still having a little baby whose cry wasn't very loud and you know, all of that.
And it just was sort of like lovely. And then this call comes and I felt like it like jerked me back to the rest of my life that I kind of, Not disconnected from, but sort of gently put aside, covered in a velour cloth, and now here it was, unveiled. And so, internally, I was like, now? Like, really, now? And, and then on the other hand, I was like, this is amazing.
Like, I had no idea how this was gonna happen, and I certainly never imagined this, like, specially designed circumstance. Like what are the odds? Thank goodness. I let him know what my situation was. And this really could be amazing and perfect. And either way, even if we would be in residency at the same time, my husband will be done with his intern year.
And so this was extraordinary. And so my biggest concern really was to figure out What was going to happen with my baby while I went for my four hour interview or however long it was and what was I going to wear because I had to like figure out the clothes that I didn't have that fit. But anyway, those are like minor matters.
So I went, um, and I like, and meanwhile I needed to actually apply. So I don't remember the particulars, but It took multiple phone calls. This was, you know, there was no email at this time. Right. And no, like, form you fill out online. I mean, the internet did exist, but it wasn't like, like not, anyway. So I needed to call the registrar of the medical school multiple times and track down letters of recommendation and my Yeah, all that stuff.
So I, you know, I did that and then I went in in January for the interview and in the meantime I thought things through enough and so I was very clear that I was a yes to doing this but I wanted her to do her . Six months of family medicine first
so
that I could I didn't want to do a month on a month off that just to me Yeah, miserable, which is what he was suggesting based on what he knew and I'm sure for the for the other Resident that would have been fine.
But for me a month on a month off just meant like
Too much disruption. 12
extra transitions and difficulties and inconsistencies. So I was very clear, like I would rather just go for it. And basically, she started in July and was in family medicine through June. And then I started my family medicine internship in January and went through June and then the following six months.
So I basically did my internship. during 12 consecutive months. But because this was such an unusual situation and I, I didn't want to show up with, You know, other interns who'd already been interns for six months and knew the systems, knew the hospital and had all the drug doses like, you know, they could say them in their sleep and I had been out and taking care of babies.
So this also was kind of amazing and really wonderful, but I basically started my continuity clinic. I don't, it's interesting to think, cause I wasn't officially an intern. I think they had some weird paperwork they had to do, but they had to get me my license earlier than, like, before I actually started, but because it was out of sync with July, anyway, that was their paperwork to deal with, not mine.
And so, I started my continuity clinic at the Family Health Center in, I don't know, maybe August. And I got my panel, and I You know, for family medicine, that's largely outpatient primary care, so even though I wasn't keeping intern hours, I went at least once a week and worked in the clinic for what was five months.
And then I became a regular intern and did my first six months of my internship year, which ended at the end of June, and then my second six months of my internship year, which started in July. And then I did another six months of continuity clinic, primary care, family medicine. And that then was the point at which my husband completed his three years of residency.
So there was another So
wait, hold on. Before we, before we move on, I just want to sit in this for a Because I think it is very significant. And points to a lot of things that can help you doc who is listening. You, in your mind, as this new mother, you know that you're pregnant. You had a very clear vision of what you wanted.
Your desire was to to be a family medicine physician to not be an intern the same time as your husband and We would figure it out. So you were very clear and because you had that in your mind when you showed up as The housewife the arm candy. It was not like this is you know, well, I'll figure it out at some point I'm gonna make sure this person knows who I am just so whatever happens happens That takes a level of forethought and just being so connected to what you know that you want and the direction that you know that you're going in that I just feel like should be, first of all, applauded.
That was amazing. But then just to make the point of Having the vision is important so that you act accordingly and then all of a sudden you have this amazing thing happen and Even in that it was really easy to be like, oh, well, they're doing me this huge favor. Let me just do whatever they want I'm gonna do a month on month off because I mean who knows when I'm gonna get this opportunity But no, you said I had some time to think and this is what I'm gonna do because this is what actually makes sense And you know what?
The fact that even back then, and I don't want to say way back then, but when motherhood was not like a thing that was regular in medicine, they were able to make something for you. And I think that is so significant because even though a lot in medicine has not changed, It's so many women, so many mothers, it's like you can come outside of what you think is routine in medicine and accepted and see what people can create for you because you never know what people can do for you, for you to get this dream and to continue doing what you set out to do.
It's just so amazing to hear the path that you went through and Again, knowing that I don't want to start six months behind. mentally. So I'm just going to do this other thing that nobody has ever done. Start in a clinic and they're going to figure out the paperwork. Like all of these things, I don't think you realize how amazing they were or are.
And it is, it can be very inspirational for somebody else who's trying to figure out like, how am I going to make this thing work with my kids and make it work within my family and really integrate into the life that I know that I want. So I just wanted to like, just. Let that marinate for whoever's listening, and now it's done and you can go ahead.
Your husband finished.
I really appreciate you saying that, and I just want to add a few more things. I knew what my non negotiables were in terms of how I wanted to mother. And I also knew what my ultimate goal was, which was to be able to practice family medicine well. I knew that I was outside the usual path.
And so there wasn't going to be somebody else thinking it through for me. I think that's a really important thing. Like yes, I created this, but it's not because I was waiting for the system to kick in. Like I was, I was in a different, I'm on a different channel, a different path. And so there was no system that was going to kick in.
So I needed to take responsibility and identify what are my needs. In very practical terms, in order to become the quality doctor I want to be. That's one thing, and the other thing is that never for a minute did I think or plan on somebody else seeing it from my point of view. I just knew there was nobody looking at my circumstances through my lens.
Besides me and that was not anything I was even aspiring to. I had no other friends who were, who had had a child in medical school. I had no friends who had taken time off. Like this was, there was just, And so my real question was, um, I'll put it because I'm a relationship and intimacy coach.
I will put it in these terms. It's like, how can I talk the love language of the program director? Well, he needs to know that I am a competent person and I need to look the part because this has to be a fairly efficient, successful communication at some party and he's not going to spend a lot of time visiting with me. So I need my three minutes, you know, holding a drink while he's
getting his drink to be, and so I needed to look the part like, and with this, I needed to really understand what this other medical student was talking about.
Okay, she just needed six months in each, like, she basically needed to be able to do two internship years over twelve months and had no, there was no, like, need for her to do one rotation before another or anything like that across the two programs. And he just needed his spots filled.
Yeah, so warm body.
Yes, a warm, working, functional doctor intern body. And so I knew that I could provide that. And so why would it matter to him? I mean, when he suggested a month on a month off, That was from his context, which had minimal overlap with mine, which had to do with how I want to be a mother and my view of child development and my relationship with my children and so on and so forth.
And, and, and my marital context too, that we were not in competition. We were totally collaborative. How do we both become doctors and care for our children in the way we want to? And so this was all very clear. Like there's, there's, there's, There's no reason he should have said no to six months on, six months off, because his goals would be covered and I didn't a hundred percent know what this other medical student's goals were.
I did definitely want to talk to her before everything was like, made contractual to make sure that We could collaborate in this.
Yeah.
but his needs were very clear and it was easy for me to understand them and he did not need to understand my needs so long as I expressed them in the terms that would work for him.
And I think that this also is super important that when we are in our challenges, we can yearn for somebody to get it. And I think the coaching you do, the podcast you do serves this incredible service of creating dialogue and communication with people who get it. We have that need as human beings, but the program director that I am negotiating with to have what I need given this opportunity, that is not the place to look for understanding kind of a simpatico attitude.
Yeah.
Your attention has to be out on him.
Exactly. And it wasn't hard because what he needed. It was very conventional, so to speak. And the other thing that, you know, I've said a few times, but I want to emphasize is that I also, I wanted to be a really good doctor. And so I was like, I wasn't paid for any of my time doing clinic.
I
did not know that.
Yeah. It cost me because I had to pay for childcare. So the way that I could make that happen is. I was a plus in the understaffed family health center. And like, it was, that was another win, win, win, but it did not involve me being paid. In fact, I should say like, to me, I felt like I needed to do this.
It would have my, my mindset around compensation was not what it is now. And I would have felt a sort of weird pressure to be paid. It left me a little free to find my way after a year out of medicine, picking up continuity clinic, which as a medical student, I'd never had that. So anyway, whatever, it doesn't matter.
My focus really was on where are we headed? It was, it was not on being paid for the continuity clinic. My. I was just happy I didn't have to pay to do it.
Yeah. That it was tuition
free education, even if they got some free labor. And so, yeah, so, it was awesome. 11 months of continuity clinic, five before my internship year and six afterwards.
And then your husband graduated. So what happened then?
Yeah. So my husband completed his three years, he graduated. And at this point our children were two and four and it felt like it was time to move on because, um, He was going to take an attending position and I actually wanted to live closer to my mother and my daughter was starting school, you know, a few months later.
And so, once again, I don't really even know that we gave it that much of the kind of thought it really should have been given. And I want to emphasize that I had two years of continuity clinic and I wanted to do outpatient medicine, and so I felt more competent than I might have if I were doing something else, and so I actually left.
I completed my internship year, and at this point, I thought, well, I can go back, you know, I don't know what I'm going to do. I can figure it out. I can go back and do another two years down the road, but this just felt like the next move. And in fact, I had my medical license. I had done more continuity clinic than many.
And so we moved, my husband became an attending, my daughter went to school and I don't remember how soon, but. Not that much later, I actually opened my own small, holistic medical practice, because I had done lots of other trainings, and I actually wasn't really sure when I was, like, how it would work for me to practice medicine.
, but, at the school that my, um, children attended, there were a lot of people who, when they heard, like other mothers who heard, I was a doctor, they wanted to become my patient, and then actually, I was like, well, okay, let me see if I can figure this out, so I contacted medical malpractice companies, and I, like, even though I didn't complete three years of residency, what I officially completed, and my additional training that gave me a level of, a sense of confidence, I met all of the requirements to practice legally in the state of Massachusetts.
I had my license, I did my CME, I had easy access to medical malpractice, and so I opened my own clinic. I had zero employees and a small space, and I only practiced during school hours. And some of what I did was primary care, and some of what I did was more Like, consultations for specific things, and I was asked to give lectures, I, I gave a lot of talks to, about child development and to parents at multiple private schools in the area, I ended up teaching some sex ed in a middle school and there were about, I think, three schools that I was on staff as a consultant because this was the time before.
ADD and ADHD was not as common as it is now and these teachers didn't feel comfortable making medical diagnoses because they're teachers but they were noticing things in the classroom and so there were questions that arose then that probably wouldn't arise now and these were private schools that didn't have a nurse on staff and so I oversaw also like the vaccination program and requirements and anyway.
It really is kind of amazing thinking of it now, but I created a medical practice and career that was just continued the unusual path. I wasn't looking for unusual. It was cash pay only. I didn't bother with insurance. I did bill Medicare once or twice. I did some home visits with a patient's elderly mother.
But anyway. It was, um, in fact, I forgot when I started, I didn't even rent a space. I did all home visits.
And so wait, pause, pause, just want to talk again about your path, you know, the path less traveled and the possibilities that you are opening up for. Physician moms right now who like I, I can't be on this traditional path like it's not going to work for me, it's not going to work for my family and you are describing so many models right now.
That are way more commonplace and that people are fighting to be your be a part of you're describing DPC
Yeah, but
the cash pay model you're describing home visits, which is all the rage now with pediatricians You are describing different ways that people who did not finish residency can still practice medicine and use their knowledge and all Of the hard work that they have put into with all of these transferable skills.
You also run a business it's It is just proof that you do not have to take the regular path and it can still be everything you imagined or even things that you didn't imagine and that's great too and it can be amazing too and I just want to thank you again for sharing all of this because I know it is going to help somebody who does not want to be on the traditional
path.
Yeah. You know, it's, it's sort of, um, therapeutic for me, not that I've had a problem, but it's therapeutic for me to hear you say it that way because I didn't have any of these terms like DPC and like, I knew I wasn't, I didn't know how to arrange insurance. Like, like it, it's just cause it didn't occur to me, like it just made sense to do cash pay.
Right. Right.
And, um, initially. Like I was happy to use my skills. I had people asking me to use my skills, but I was, it was like too much to think of committing to renting a space. Like you have to know you have consistent income. And so I just started doing home visits. Patients loved it. And I actually learned so much.
It used to be kind of funny to me, like there's some people where like the whole household would stop everything because the doctor had arrived and there was so much respect. And then I had this one patient who like, she couldn't stop talking about how I had saved her daughter's life because she had this complicated allergy situation.
I don't even remember the medical details and anyway, it doesn't matter. But the point is that. I was able to do more because I was in the home and I saw certain things that, you know, related to the presence of allergens and the kitchen and like, I just saw all these things, but so, so she was a super grateful patient, the mom and the, the kid, but I would arrive and the kid would come hug me and the mom would like be talking on the phone on the portable phone.
This was, you know, before cell phones, you know, and just like talking to her friend and like, Like, no respect, even though I knew she respected me, and was grateful, but she was like, oh, you know, the daughter can play with me, but, so it was very hard, I think one of the biggest challenges with home visits is it's really hard to be efficient.
There is, you can't go in and out like you can with an office
room,
but anyway, and the thing that I want to emphasize is I have no illusion that if I had chosen an area of medicine that was hospital based. this would have been possible, but I didn't. And actually my inspiration, I remember at the time reading lots of books, like memoirs and biographies of, like old time community doctors.
And I just thought, okay, I don't live in a small rural community, but this actually is a practice model that I am not inventing. I'm just integrating it into suburban life.
Yeah. And I think that's important too, because sometimes we are our own worst enemies and I don't want to get into a mid level.
conversation too much, but I'm going to dip my toe in a little bit. Like when there's, there's so much rigidity in the structure of how we think medicine should be practiced, and it limits those of us who have taken different paths, but also empowers those who do not have the education by any means, then come in and slip in between the gaps because there are gaps.
And It's us breaking free from this, you know, it must be this way that will allow not only our colleagues who have taken a different path to practice, but so that patients in general get better care from people who have actually gone to medical school and who actually know what they're doing and are not just, you know, I don't let me not say what the other people are doing, but I just think it is very refreshing to hear your story so, so thank you for that.
But tell me how did you get to the vasectomy and later on the other two kids, which we don't have to go into their early motherhood stories because at this point you would have been a veteran.
But I'm really interested in how you came to say, okay. This, we're done. And then, um, maybe not.
I was talking to this person who was very intuitive and psychic. And I didn't really know what that meant one way or the other. But he started telling me that, I should really decide whether, and there was a context for him to be telling me this. He didn't just like walk up to me randomly on the street.
But anyway, in this context, he said to me, you should really decide whether or not you're going to have another child, because there's this soul that's hanging around, he didn't say hanging around, but whatever souls do, I guess they don't really hang around, but you know, like, present, and so I said, I just laughed.
I was like, you've already decided we're not having any more children. And he said, well, then like he offered me a ritual to let this spirit go. So it could go to another family. And so I listened and I don't really have any idea what happened in my mind during my half an hour drive home. But when I got home, I said to my husband, we're going to have another child.
And he said, okay, which is kind of an astonishing response from someone who used to say no to my harebrained, crazy ideas when we first got together, but we weren't, you know, we'd been together a while already. And I had no idea how we were going to do that because I had never heard of vasectomy reversal.
It was more just, I was just sharing a rampant desire like, you know, let's move to New Zealand. And he'd be like, okay, because he had learned that in the past, if he'd say, well, do you know what the legalities are for practicing medicine and would you want to take all of our stuff or just like start new, you know, and, and I would just go crazy.
Like, don't, you know what we say with the kids, you know, don't yuck my yum yums. I want to be able to dream and fantasize. So. I think this was just like that. Like I want to have another child and I had never actually felt done. I just felt like we had two children and then I wanted to continue my medical training and like, it just was too much to think of a third child in that context.
But now. You know, we were further along, he was an established attending, and I had created my way of practicing medicine. So anyway, he said, okay. And then we started doing research and discovered it's a thing. It's certainly not covered by insurance, at least it wasn't then. And, um, there was some guy at, I think it was Mass General who did like, I don't know, a handful every six months.
But then we found this place in Arizona. Where it's two urologists who clearly have such a cushy practice, and all they do is vasectomy reversals, which is cash pay. They do two a day, and I think the largest portion of their business, um, at least then, was Arab men who, in the meantime, had married either a different wife or an additional wife, who was much younger and They wanted to have children together, so it would be, you know, 16 years out from the vasectomy.
He would go and bring his beautiful bride and these two urologists would do whatever amazing microsurgery they do. Um, but we were only two and a half years out and it was very unusual for the center when Rod went out there that I didn't come with him, but I couldn't come because I was home taking care of kids.
So, um, he had the procedure and And then we went on to have two more children, and I will say, because in the Facebook groups, it often comes up, like, should I have a third child, or should I have a fourth child, and for me, personally, We were very happy with our two children, but I did not feel complete, but I was comfortable overriding that and when I had my youngest child, I just felt totally complete and have never yearned for a child since.
So, um, I can assure you I never in a million years imagined talking about the vasectomy reversal in a forum that will live in perpetuity, but Or
does Rod know that you are telling this story right now?
No, he doesn't. But you know, on my podcast, the intimate marriage podcast, where I share all kinds of things about communication and sex and emotional intimacy and tell stories about our own marriage.
And so at one point I said to him, how do you feel about my sharing so much about our lives? Because We used to both be very private people and he just got a big huge grin and said as long as it's the truth I'm okay, because yeah, typically I'm not talking about his vasectomy reversal I'm talking about great sex and how to reconnect after a cooler period and so as long as As long as the laboratory is producing the kinds of results I'm talking about, he's okay.
Right. But he'll be fine with it, also because he is a physician who's glad to be in service of people's growth and evolution and greater happiness. And I can't really imagine someone listening is going to take action on this. But anyway, uh, It is our story.
Yeah. And I thank you for sharing it so fully.
And I just, because I'm going to ask you to tell the listener about you and what you're doing, I feel like you have to give us a lead in. How did you end up going from practicing medicine in your very unique way into being the amazing, wonderful relationship and intimacy coach that you are?
Okay. Well, there are a few things to say.
One is that. Also, before the vasectomy reversal, first my father and then my mother died. There were a lot of different things that happened at this time and my practice was successful which, and as I've already said, like I was the only, if the phone rang, it was me answering it. And Doing everything in response to whatever the person was saying.
So at this point had three children and I felt like I put my patients ahead of my family and my family ahead of myself. And I really, it was not a time management issue. I really tried. to figure this out and have it right because that did not reflect my values. I mean, it was very devoted to my patients, but not more than my family, nevermind myself.
And I just really, I tried many different things, time management tools and affirmation. I didn't try affirmations. I didn't really know about them, but you know, whatever the point is, I tried lots of things and I could not get it right. So I decided to take a sabbatical from my practice, which in the context of everything else I've shared really just was not that big a deal for me.
Although it was, I remember my father in law, who's an attorney being like, are you sure you want to do this? But anyway, what, like I was in charge of myself, I was my own boss. And so I gave notice. with months to taper off and whatever. Anyway. So I put myself on a sabbatical mostly because I was now in my mid thirties, I was the oldest person in my family and, you know, living the life we've been talking about.
And I think that if I had been 55, I never would have done this, but I was in my mid thirties. And I felt like what I was hearing as a whisper. Like, I was not burnt out. I had no concept of that, and I had none of the signs and symptoms of burnout. This was not, like, this glaring problem. It was more the level of a whisper.
But I knew that This would become unsustainable if I continued in the same way for another four decades. And so I thought rather than be more entrenched in my children are now in high school that I want to figure this out. No, like, let's do this while they're little. And so that was really the context for taking the time off.
And wait, can you can you just talk a little bit? I know we're going very long, but talk a little bit about why you wanted to do when they were little as opposed when they were in high school.
Because, while they're little, they are learning how the world works, and I don't mean in terms of those books, how things work, and the science of it, but like, however I was being when my kids were little was setting up a generational legacy.
Um, I was spending time with my children, but I'm talking about where my mental energy was. And like, if my daughter came home from school in second grade and was telling me something important to her, whether it was happy or it was sad or it was neutral, but it was significant for her, and the phone would ring and I would answer it with, like, and then spend half an hour talking to a patient, that tells her something about how important she is to me.
And that is what my actions were actually conveying, even though it's not how my heart felt. My parents were divorced. My husband's parents were divorced. I really cared that the quality of what it would feel like to be children growing up in our home, not that I micromanaged or controlled all the details, but I knew that I was setting a tone that was not actually in alignment for who I am.
And it's not that I got that many calls, like, I didn't get a call every night, but When I got a call, that was my priority, and, and I think it reflected kind of my consciousness, and I wanted to shift how I felt inside me in a way that would then transmit to my children and their sense of themselves.
Thank you for sharing that.
And I realized that so much of what I had done, with the exception of these smaller pockets, but basically my whole life since high school, what I, everything I had done had been basically A means to an end, to get to college, to finish college, and get to medical school.
, it's always for the next step. And even going on vacation, in order to have good memories for the, like, it just felt like it was always for some purpose down the road. And, so, when I took my sabbatical, the first thing that I did, and it was only during the hours my kids were in school, I still had three children, I was taking, you know, I had zero help at home, and so, it wasn't like I was living a life of leisure, but I did have a few hours that were not devoted to anything else.
So I started just spending time doing things because I felt like it. No other purpose. Then, because I felt like it, I sat by the river, I took a dance class, and it was super confronting. I can
talk about this very casually now, but it was extremely confronting to just do something because I felt like it, because it meant that how I felt mattered.
It's kind of, yes, beyond the scope of this conversation, but there is nothing, it, it's kind of like when I was home for three months before my daughter was born, it was just disorienting because I didn't need to do all the things that were stressful to get them done, but then it turned out to be even more confronting not to have those to do.
And to just learn to be with myself. And, in the process of doing that, I ended up doing some various women's empowerment workshops and then moving on to women's sensuality trainings. And one thing led to another, where first I felt really great in myself, which then translated pretty simply with my children, but then there were some real gaps to close with my husband.
And I guess that's like a whole other topic except to say that for the first basically ten years of our relationship we were medical students, we had children in diapers, we were in residency, like it was, there wasn't much time for one another and so we had a very strong relationship in terms of the quality of our communication and we certainly we We're having orgasms, each of us, but it just felt like our relationship was dehydrated.
And I always assumed, because we loved one another, that once we had more time, he worked very few weekends and evenings, and I basically wasn't working any, and we didn't have kids in diapers, and So I thought, well, our relationship is just gonna heat up because we were made for this. And basically we had more time together, things were less stressful, and nothing changed.
So, I ended up doing a very in depth training in sensuality and sexuality in order to figure out how to heat up my own marriage and how to be in on integrity and authenticity and live our full lives and still have it be. hot and wonderful between us and emotionally intimate too. And so I did this training, which doubled as a coach training, but that's not why I did it.
And at the time I didn't even know what a coach was, but I was super interested in educational models, both for medical school and these different private schools where I'd worked and so forth. So I went to the teaching lab for the people on the coach training track just because I was super curious, how do you teach people to help others?
in this realm, when you don't want to be too dry and clinical, but you don't want to be too like loose and sexy and unprofessional. Like there's, there's a fine art to, to meeting people in a way that feels relevant. So anyway, I went to the teaching lab and I just felt like I'd come home. I thought, okay, I have trained to be a doctor, but in fact, this is what I want.
This is, this is the context for how I want to. serve people. And so, um, because I had put my practice on sabbatical and I certainly wasn't being paid, I was doing some insurance, physical, like physicals for people for life insurance just to have a little extra money and whatever. But it really was not a complicated transition for me.
And so now for, for many years before physician coaching was really Like I didn't know any other physician coaches until the pandemic, but I have been helping specifically educated, successful couples who know how to make things happen in other areas of their life, bring those skills into elite communication and juicy relationships.
I love it. I love it. And you do it so well. I know because I am your client in more ways than one. So if anybody else is like, Ooh, I want that. You sound amazing and interesting. How can they find you?
Alexandra Stockwell. com is my website and from there you can, if you want to start with my book, Uncompromising Intimacy, listen to my podcast, the Intimate Marriage Podcast.
I'm on social media. They're all the different ways, but a good place to start is Alexandra Stockwell. com.
Wonderful. Alexandra, this has been absolutely amazing. I, uh, I've told you many, many, many times, your story is so inspiring. It is so unique. It is so interesting. Just, just everything that you are. And I know you to be, so I'm very happy that you will so generous with your story.
And I know that's going to be really appreciated by everybody listening. So thank you.
Thank you so much for, um, the care you've given my story and every other woman physician that you interact with. it feels good.
I'm so glad. All right, Doc, I want you to definitely, definitely share this episode.
There is another physician mom who needs to hear Dr. Alexandra's story. So definitely share it with another physician mom that you know, who wants to feel a little more seen and a lot less alone.
And I will see you on the next episode of stethoscopes and strollers.