130. The Good Mom Myth Is Burning Out Physician Moms

Hey Doc,

I’m back with another episode where I was dropping gems on another podcast.

I joined Dr. Diane Shannon on Vital Signs: Thriving as a Woman in Medicine to talk about something I think sits at the heart of so much burnout for physician moms: the definition of a "good mom."

Most of us inherited that definition without ever questioning it. Be there for everything. Do it yourself. Put everyone else's needs ahead of your own. Sacrifice without complaint.

The problem? That model was never built for women practicing medicine.

Medicine still rewards self-sacrifice. Motherhood often expects it. Put those two together, and it's no surprise so many physician moms feel like they're failing at both, even when they're doing an extraordinary job.

In this conversation, we unpack where these expectations come from, why physician moms experience them so intensely, and how creating your own definition of motherhood isn't selfish. It's necessary.

We also talk about the practical changes that can help you protect your wellbeing without sacrificing the career or family you've worked so hard to build.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Why the traditional idea of the "good mom" sets physician moms up for burnout
• How medicine's culture of martyrdom amplifies guilt at home and at work
• The hidden costs of trying to do everything yourself
• Why redefining motherhood is one of the most important mindset shifts you can make
• Practical ways to prioritize yourself without feeling guilty

If you've ever felt like you're constantly falling short, despite giving everything you have, I hope this conversation reminds you that the problem isn't you.

It might just be the definition you've been trying to live up to.

🎧 Press play and let's redefine what being a good mom really means.

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Strategy Coaching Session with Dr. Toya

Transcript

Hey, doc. I am having so much fun re-listening to these podcasts where I was a guest, mainly because I am amazed at how insightful I really am. But also, I'm a continual learner, and I am recognizing many patterns in my speech when I do interviews and speak in general, and I'm like, "Oh, this needs to improve because I sound silly."

So it's good to hear myself on other people's platforms and on platforms where they don't edit as much as I do. So it's good for you and me. Anyway, this episode is when I was a guest on Vital Signs: Thriving as a Woman in Medicine, and it is covering another one of my favorite topics. If you notice a pattern, I have a lot of favorite topics, but this one is about redefining what it means to be a good mom and ends with practical things we can do to help us avoid the burnout that comes with striving to be the typical good mom.



So I hope you enjoy 

today. My guest is Dr. Latoya Lu Sampson, known as Dr. Toya. She is a board certified obstetrician gynecologist. Perinatal mental health specialist and a coach for physician moms. Her passion is helping physician moms thrive in medicine and motherhood without sacrifice. Welcome, Latoya. 

Thank you. I'm so glad to be here.

Great, and I, I wanna start out with a warmup question. What if I were visiting your hometown? What is something I need to make sure not to miss? 

Yes. I love that question because I'm originally from Trinidad and Tobago in the Caribbean, and we have one of the biggest festivals that happens there every year.

It's called Carnival. You may hear people say Carnival. It's not like Brazil. It's similar, but it's. So much better in my humble opinion. And it happens, you know, right before the beginning of Lent. And it is absolutely amazing. It happens every single year and it is something you absolutely cannot miss if you visit Trinidad and Tobago. 

And how many days is it? 

Two days of the actual parade, but the season, um, starts pretty much after Christmas, so we're in the carnival season right now.

Wow, that sounds amazing. Yeah, 

it's 

great. Thank you for sharing that. 

Yeah. 

So let's, let's dive into the challenge that we're gonna talk about today and, and, um, can you just say a little bit about what you chose and why you wanna talk about this? 

So my passion, as you mentioned, is to help physician moms, and the thing that I have seen as a recurring theme is This idea of what it means to be a good mom that is very outdated and does not fit in the lives of physicians is really leading to burnout, not just for current physician moms, but for any female physician who is thinking about children who probably has even older children. Because when you think about the quote unquote good mom.

All the things that she does. The self-sacrifice, I must do it all. I have to do everything. I have to be at every event I have to make every meal. really doesn't fit into the life of a busy, full-time working physician and the pressure of having to do all of those things added to the pressure of being a doctor in general.

is breaking so many people. Mm-hmm. And they feel like they're drowning. They just cannot keep up. And it is damaging to the confidence that you have, not just as a mother, as a woman, and as a physician, because you then also get that toxic culture of martyrdom from medicine as well.

Right. You must give everything to your job, to your patients, to the institution. And it just is a perfect storm of burnout and how am I going to do this and comparison So it is really my mission to help physicians redefine what it means to be a good mom that fits us and our lives and our unique challenges because it's a big deal.

We, we've done a lot to get here, um, and to. Kind of break yourself down to fit into something that really, like nobody back in the day really thought about a physician mom. All the physicians were men, right? So we are in this space that was not made for us. So now we have to make it our own, both inside the hospital and outside.

Great. Also, I have so many questions about what you just said. Um, but first of all, you reminded me of, um, I was doing research for something I was writing, um, for fun. And it had to do with what medical practice was like back in. The late, you know, 18 hundreds, early 19 hundreds, and I found this photograph of the trainees at a local hospital here in Boston, and it had this picture of about 25 individuals.

They were all white men and they were all dressed in white, and the caption said that their training was to come live at the hospital. For a year, and they could not be married and they could not have children. Wow. And that's where we started. Yeah. So how does that fit with today? 

Exactly. And 

that's exactly what, when you said that, I just thought back on that, the mold, right?

The mold that was created in the very beginning here in, in the States anyway. 

And to think that we are now trying to fit ourselves into what? A traditional wife would have been. It's, it's kind of ludicrous when you think about it, that we compare ourselves to stay at home moms, or while I saw my own mother do X, Y, z.

I'm pretty sure your mom wasn't a physician. She wasn't full-time. And if she was, and she was doing all of these things, there's this kind of, fantasy that we build up, especially when we have a good relationship with our mothers. Well, she did all of these things. So I should be too, um, I had a friend tell me, am I being lazy by not being able to do X, Y, Z? And I had to ask, well, did your mom really do all of this alone? And she said, no. She had a village. I went to my family every summer and I had, help come. It looked differently, but when you really drill down, is the idea that you have in your head realistic?

Is it really what was That person's reality, and even if it was, does it fit your current life now? And usually the answer is no. So what can we do to change that idea so that you can actually enjoy motherhood and being a physician and not feel like it has to be a choice or that you're failing at it or any of that.

Right. You know what I'm wondering too is in, in the work that you do or the way you think about this, um, I'm wondering if it's even just physician moms who are in this dilemma, whether our idea of what a mother is comes from past decades where it may not be appropriate to many women today. Right. Do you, do you believe that that's true?

I do. And when I speak about these things, I feel like I could be talking to any mom. I can be talking to even stay-at-home moms, right? Because there's this idea that being a stay-at-home mom is great and easy. And I'm like, I couldn't do it for sure. I could not. And it is not serving most people who have children. 

So what are the, you know, aside from what we've picked up at in a culture of medicine, in the culture of society, about what we should do, about that self-sacrifice, what are some of the, uh, other causes of us getting in this dilemma about what we believe we need to be as a physician?

Mom? 

I think for us in particular, the fact that in general we tend to be away more than the average mom and especially even a working mom because of residency, because of our schedules. Like if you are on call a lot, 'cause I'm an OB, GYN, you know I used to do 20 fours. If you're an ER doc and you work nights.

You are in general away more. So there's the guilt, like the mom guilt is on a whole other level when you are a physician. So you try to overcompensate, well, I must do all of these things. I must give the breast milk because it is the best. And you have your medical knowledge of the things that are the best for your child.

And we tend to be a little bit more type A and perfectionist right? So, you know, like I'm gonna be the best mother that I can be and I already have these outdated ideas, so I'm gonna to be the best of all of those things. So it is amplified for us in a very unique way, and that's why I focus on physician moms.

Yes. And I'm thinking about, um, like you mentioned, you know, there's call, there's the long training. There's also the fact that, you know, if you find out a week ahead of time that there's an event for your child's school, you can't easily cancel. Right? You might have an OR schedule, you might have clinic patients that.

And now with the difficulty with patient access, if you cancel a day, it could be months before they can find an open slot. Yeah. So that puts an additional level of stress on, right? Yeah. So it's the mom guilt is one, but then there's the physician guilt. most of us, Are healers, we are helpers.

We want to be there for our patients. We know we give good care. So it's just like, well, I feel bad for counseling and a school event even though it may be very important. Is, you know, in the grand scheme, not life changing, but it extends into things that can be life changing. I have seen women say, well, I need to go to the doctor.

My, my XY, Z really hurts, but I can't cancel clinic. I have a surgery scheduled. So we are also sacrificing our own health for our patients and what we feel obligated to do. And that's where the. Culture from medicine comes in that compounds this issue. 

Yes.

What are some of the downstream effects? You've mentioned burnout. Mm-hmm. Are there other effects that this kind of pressure between, or the pressure to be, the pressure to be the perfect mom, whatever that is. Um, are there other consequences of this? Yeah, I, you know, burnout is such a catchall term, you know, when you drill down into it, what does that burnout look like?

So. you have an unhappy woman, somebody who is snapping at her children, somebody whose marriage is falling apart, somebody whose patients are not getting the best, they're getting a grumpy, irritated physician. Their office staff is getting a grumpy, irritated physician or. Everybody is getting the perfect physician and she is dying inside because she is doing all of these things to make sure everybody else is happy and something has to give and it's usually her self, So everybody is affected. So when I talk about choosing yourself first and taking care of yourself and saying no to things, is appear selfish on the outside. Everybody gets the best of you and then they all benefit from it. Because when you are that burnt out, when you're that unhappy, nothing and no one in your life is doing well.

So there's really, um, something that you can see in every aspect of somebody's life if they're in that situation. And, it's sad to see it. 

Absolutely. Yes. And I've sp you know, one of the things I realized after doing a lot of writing and reading about burnout, research and burnout, there were two words that kept coming up in the patients, or the, sorry.

The clients that I work with that I'd never seen in any of the research. And you mentioned one, which is irritable. 

Mm-hmm. 

I'm irritable with my kids and this is not who I am. Yeah. The other one was dread, like dread going to work because that was 

me 

overwhelm, right? Of what's coming that day. And, you're right, if I am walking around grumpy and irritable, I don't have it to give to patients.

Yeah, my family, right? 

That is common. I have nothing left to give is a very common phrase from anyone with young kids or kids in general. But you know, especially when they're young and they need you so much. Um, I have nothing left to give and another word I hear a lot, which was also my experience is resentment.

You have a lot of resentment for the people around you who. Just don't seem to understand and seem to be having a better time. It's like, why is everybody else okay? And I'm not, and then you get very resentful. Resentful, yeah. Um, and it's funny you mentioned dread because you know, I had a postpartum burnout that led me to this work.

But before that, I had a regular old burnout in residency and in, you know, my attending hood and the thing that was the common, Thought was dread and it got to a very dark place where it was, I am dreading this so much that I just want to get hurt. You know? Like I, I want a car to just clip me a little bit.

So not so that I would be seriously hurt or I would die. I just want to be hurt enough that I did not have to go into work. That was a level of my.

So when you said that, it just struck something in me. 'cause I, it's exactly how I felt. Yep. Yep. Well let's turn our attention to potential solutions and Yeah. Both at kind of a larger level, like what could society do or medical societies do, um, organizations and then Yeah. So what could individuals do?

Yeah,  corporations, medical, you know, societies, hospitals, I think starting at a real practical level is going to give way for individuals to then heal themselves and to get the help that they need and. Usually the biggest hurdle for most moms is childcare is getting some kind of help at home.

And where I used to work, they had a lot of issues. That was the place that I burnt out from. But they did have, a backup childcare system. And it was a level of security and just relief to be able to have that, to know that I can drop my kid off at, you know, this daycare center.

I could have somebody come into my home if anything happened. And it just was like, okay, if something happens, I know I have this, What can you do as an, as an organization? Can you partner with local daycare centers? Can you give subsidies? Can you be like the fantasy of Grey's Anatomy and have a in, in-hospital, you know, daycare?

You know, I, I am one of those people where I still watch Grey's Anatomy, and that's one thing that I, I look at, I'm like, do places actually have this? Because this would be amazing. Like if we could just drop off our children, it's the most practical and often most impactful thing is getting people childcare because then you have the time, you have the energy, you have the mental space to be able to fix everything else.

that may be, you know, burning you out and stressing out in your life, but you have to have the time first. 

what strikes me about that is if you think about it for the organization, the investment in creating that and supporting that and whatever the dollar numbers are. Would pay back so quickly in the fact that that surgeon didn't have to cancel that day or that primary care physician was able to come in, or that OB GYN was able to see patients in clinic and do surgery.

Right. It would so quickly pay for itself. 

Yeah, and even beyond. The individual days where care could be affected, it's going to prevent that doctor from leaving, from flying across the country and going where they actually have family to help them to say, you know, I just need somewhere with better childcare options because it costs a lot of money to replace a doctor.

So there are so many ways in, in the long run, if you are playing the long game where it can save the organization money, it's worth investing in. 

Absolutely. And I, I hope that more organizations begin playing that longer game. 

Yes. Yes. So on the individual level, it is starting with.

Changing the definition of what it means to be a good mom. Because if you hold on to, I must do it all. Help is a luxury that I can't afford, or that is for other people, you know, it's for other moms, not, not me. Then anything I say after that is not gonna matter because it is against what you think is your value, right?

It's, it's a value of yours to act in a certain way, and you act in alignment with your values. So really recognizing that this definition that you have does not actually serve the life that you would like to lead right now, and holding onto it isn't helping anyone is usually the first step. Having the time and energy, like I said, with the organizational level to figure out, okay, well now that I have identified that there is a problem, what changes am I going to make in my life?

What kind of help am I going to get? Is it going to be paid help? Is it gonna be free? Who am I going to ask or help? And that is one of my biggest platforms is. Being okay with asking and also redefining what it means to ask. Because a lot of times when you ask somebody, you are creating a new role for them in your life.

People in general like to be helpful, and this idea that I will owe them or I shouldn't ask, is really. It is also not serving you right? If you think of it as you are doing them a favor because they can now have a significant role. You know, I really helped you get through this hard time. It's gonna make them feel good.

They're going to want to help you, and it's not a deficiency on your part to be able to ask. So being able to. Build that village through asking, through paying for it, and being okay with knowing that you cannot do it all is usually the thing that will open people up to living a better life and a more joyful path in motherhood, which is, you know, my biggest goal.

You know, and I, when you say that word, joyful I think. But the polar opposite of what it is when you start and you are just burnt out, irritable, grumpy, unhappy. Right. Polar opposite. To be in a place of joy. 

Yes. And it's people. Say all the time, oh, well, it'll get better. Just wait. Wait until they get older.

But I truly believe that the early years of the foundation that you're setting for your motherhood journey, so if you are setting a foundation of complete self-sacrifice for your family, for your patients, that is not gonna change. You are going to get to a stage where you are an empty nester and look back at your life and realize that.

you gave it all. Like there's, there's still nothing left and you will continue to give. If you have a partner that is used to you giving it all and doing it all, you will continue to do that. Um, or if you realize at that stage, okay, let me make some changes. Everybody's gonna be like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

What, what is this new thing? I'm used to. You always being there for me. So it's, it's so much better to just set the foundation from the beginning and get everybody used to mom taking care of herself and having help and all of these things. 

Oh, I love it. Before we, you've mentioned so much, so much wisdom here.

Have our listeners take away today? 

Yeah, I mentioned it before and it is to choose yourself and contrary to what you may believe and what people may tell you, it is the most selfless thing that you can do is to choose yourself, because when you do that, your nature as a woman, as a mother, as a healer. Is to take care of others.

It is to give. So if you are coming from full, happy, joyful, then everybody else is gonna get that as well. And it is going to benefit everybody in your life, especially your family and your patients. So always choose you first. 

Choose you first. Oh.  

That was great. I have no notes. Choose you first doc, and I will see you on the next episode of Stethoscopes and Strollers