The Clues We Almost Missed: MCAS, Lyme, Mold & a Growing Family

When she first came to us, Katie had already done so much right.

As a fellow nutrition professional, she had spent years investing in her health, exploring different approaches, cleaning up her diet, and searching for answers. Yet she was still dealing with a long list of frustrating symptoms: food sensitivities, histamine reactions, flushing, low energy, brain fog, motion sickness, skin issues, hormone struggles, and cognitive challenges that made reading comprehension and information retention difficult.

In this episode, we walk through the clues that pointed toward a deeper story of immune dysregulation and chronic infection. We discuss how symptoms like MCAS, histamine intolerance, food reactions, vertigo, and hormone imbalances can sometimes be signs of an overwhelmed immune system rather than isolated conditions themselves.

Testing eventually revealed multiple immune stressors, including Lyme disease, Epstein-Barr virus (EBV), Coxsackie virus, Parvovirus, and strep-related immune activation. Together, we discuss what healing looked like, from improved energy and cognition to better sleep, healthier skin, and growing confidence in her body's ability to recover.

We also explore an unexpected mold discovery during the process of moving into a new home, why environmental factors matter so much for sensitive individuals, and how to navigate these findings without fear, especially finding mold in new home constitution.  

Her husband, Trevor, joins the conversation to share his own story of chronic respiratory symptoms, congestion, asthma, and immune challenges that had been normalized for years. Together, their experience highlights an important lesson: family members can share the same underlying burdens while expressing them in very different ways.

Today, they're preparing for a new chapter - settling into a new home, feeling stronger than they have in years, and expecting their first baby this fall.

This episode is a hopeful reminder that symptoms are rarely random, healing is rarely linear, and sometimes the answers are hiding in places no one has thought to look.

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Transcript

Hey, you're going to be okay. I'm Elizabeth Mae and my functional health practice. Hey, hey Mae helps people heal when they've exhausted traditional options. When no one can figure out your health challenges. My team helps you resolve symptoms and restores your health. You're listening to my podcast where we'll hear stories of healing chronic illness from a root cause, immune centered approach.

Welcome back. We are going to get to talk through a fun case today because two cases we're talking about when you're trying everything, you're taking good care of your bodies. But there are health issues hanging out in your household. Today we're going to talk with Katie and Trevor. Katie and I actually met in nutrition school years ago and stayed connected over time.

But by the end of 2024, Katie had done like a tremendous amount of really good work already on her body. And you really, like, weren't somebody coming in eating fast food or ignoring your health? You guys are also getting to a place where you're hoping to conceive in the near future, and really kind of wanted to, like, prepare for that.

And a lot of listeners, I think, are going to relate to your guys story because you are already doing a lot of good things. And Katie had already like really deep dove on your health. And there were just good things in place, but there were symptoms still hanging out. And I think for Trevor, like you'd always push through your symptom load, you had a history of being an athlete.

We'll get into more of that later. But like, you'd always just, like, move through it and kept doing all of your athletic endeavors. So on the outside, it seemed like things are fine. This guy's healthy. He's able to do, all this football and wrestling stuff just fine. But there were still things that were through lines for a long time.

And so we kind of came to working together from an optimization point more so. But maybe tell us just a little bit about where you guys were when we started working together, maybe Katie first, and then we'll talk about Trevor. Let's see. So, I mean, where I was when we started working together, I had I felt like I had tried everything.

I had gone, you know, down the mold route, the parasite route, the. I mean, so many things. HTMA. And then I remember we would just talk here and there and you were like, I think you you're like, you for sure have Lyme. I was like, I don't know. I kept kind of like, pushing it back. And then it got to a point.

I had a few symptoms that just, like, were so irritating, would never go away. And I was like, I have to just bite the bullet here, see what this is about, and really embark on this other path that I didn't really know anything about or, didn't know. Yeah. Just didn't know what that would look like. So that's where I was.

And I kind of just gave it all to you and was like, okay, let's see what's up. And I'm along for the ride. So that's kind of where I was. Yeah. I, I was in a similar boat of like reluctantly about like exploring, you know, and taking a deeper dive into my health. I, I think I always told myself I was healthy and I was doing these things, but, you know, really getting deep into understanding my body and taking a protocol on to, you know, address some of these, you know, really fine tuning things.

Was just something I was kind of avoiding. So I kind of felt as a challenge to, show up for, you know, the person I thought I was being with, you know, health, being a leading value in my life and trying to be a leader and a potentially a better husband and possible father. So, yeah, I saw it as an opportunity to to step into that space and kind of take the deep dive and take the leap.

For my health, for our health, and so that I can live out those values. And ultimately put us in a better position to start growing a family. Yeah. I think one of those things, too, that we don't know about as much as that our toxin load in our pathogen load, we do pass to our children in some way, shape or form.

Toxin load tends to be more on mom's side, but infection load can be on both sides and infections can impact mitochondrial health, which then impacts baby health. So that part is so important and really underrated because we really can impact our children's health by the way, that we take care of ourselves. But more so like the place that we are when we conceive, because the baby is made of two parts of us and then it does grow.

And mom and those things really impact baby health. So let's kind of focus on Katie stuff and then we'll move to Trevor. But looking back, there are a lot of pieces for me as your friend who like I mean, you guys live far away. We touch base here and there and, you know, we chitchat sometimes, but we're not all the time communicating.

But for me, there were always threads when you would share of like chronic infection or just immune dysregulation. You had a lot of like food reaction seasons and a lot of histamine symptoms. And there is a lot of energy level stuff for you where you're like, you were on a lot of mitochondrial. So like cellular energy support when you got here and you were like definitely open to me doing whatever.

But those were things we were like, please don't take those away because I will kind of tank like function wise. Yeah, like those are my tools. And there were there was brain fog stuff, but there were little vision change. And you had a lot of skin symptoms when we started where I thought, I hear Lyme here, I hear a chronic immune issue.

Let's kind of walk through what's going on. And most people think that Lyme looks like a tick bite joint pain and then the bull's eye rash. But there are other things. You also have nut allergies for a long time, and that does not necessarily mean not allergies all come from lime. But we do see cross reactivity there. There is a histamine stuff.

You had vertigo episodes sometimes two, and then you really I mean, multiple times when I was going through my line from Acute Bite. We talked about the skin crawling sensation. You would kind of feel like there's something crawling on your skin, or it's kind of moving around motion sickness. There are also kind of some comprehension struggles like reading comprehension, dyslexia type stuff, word finding.

So it's like you can kind of see how all these symptoms are like lots of different systems. And it may not map out for like, oh, she has this autoimmune disease or that. But for me, that pair with the MCAS, that overactive immune system doing too much inflammation really kind of push me towards Lyme questions and wondering what's going on there.

Some other pieces, maybe foodstuff. Do you remember where you were food wise when we started and like what you could or couldn't do or how foodstuff showed up for you? Yeah, I had a lot more GI issues then,

Like, digestion, bloating was a big issue. Food wise, I mean, I've been gluten free for, what, like ten, 12 years now. So that was never, a play in now. Now I can have, like, cheeses and stuff, which is really great. But I think the bloating was the really the biggest thing GI wise, food wise. Yeah.

And there were some like, there was some conditional reactions. I feel like, like eggs did this, but if you had them this way, it would be okay. And oats made this happen. And then strawberries and bananas, which are classic high histamine foods. You were like, no, if I'm trying to have a good day, I'm not doing that. And those for me were like little threads that like, there's definitely over inflammation going on in the immune system as opposed to, you know, there were patterns there, I guess, and you had a lot of Rashi stuff, but yours stuff.

Yeah, yeah. Tell us about that. What was rushing looking like, even your shower heat stuff? I think the biggest one was the I. My whole lid down to under my eye was Rashi dry. Up. There was, it was, it was before you it had gone away. But there were points that it was it would start cutting because it was so raw.

I couldn't put cream on them. I for sure as heck couldn't wear makeup. And then after a while just became like the red. It looked like I had read eyeshadow on all the time. And then now I don't have it anymore. That was probably the biggest one. And then the shower. If I would take a hot shower, I mean, any type of shower, really, I would get the full body.

They didn't look like they weren't hives per se, but it was like that splotchy red. There's. Is there a word for that specifically? No. I mean, it was really kind of like an MCA's type. Rushing where you had it was like your whole body, a flesh, basically. Yeah. And then it would go away within like a half hour.

Yeah. And I used to if I used to get like hot flashy at all, like outside, like not in the shower, I would get it neck up and it would take, it would take a lot of time to come down. And now if I have that, you would get it to like emotional states. The same, same. My chest would get really red.

Yeah, yeah. It doesn't happen anymore. Yeah. Which is classic like MCAS stuff where those mast cells are over activating and so you can get rationing. But the part that I think people don't consider is the emotional piece. When there is a stressor, like any change or threat to your body, that immune system is like we're going to react and it can just be an emotional stressor, or it can be you ate a nut or you had like a really high temperature shower, or you had a normal temperature shower, and those cells are just over reactive.

So those things were going on that made me think, oh, definitely an immune component. There is hypermobility stuff going on. Motion sickness was a big thing for you and had been, you mentioned to I was looking through notes about stiffness in the winter and going to the chiropractor. You would just like that was something that was a regular mention that your body would just kind of be stiff.

And that too can even be a reaction to pathogen load that's created hypermobility. And then our muscles try to compensate, to hold us up because our joints are struggling, you know, to do that. But there are lots of little threads and you'd been through a lot. But did you think that all the things were connected, like all the symptoms were connected, or did you feel like before we started working together?

It's just like different? Yeah, I think, I think because I had had, you know, all the training that we had and we learned that, you know, everything is connected in some way up. Like I knew that, but everything felt not, not that they would lead to one another, if that makes sense. Yeah. Like we hadn't found a through line yet, but it made.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You also had that childhood strep history and no tonsils or adenoids. And then you still kind of had some funky stuff going on. Yeah, I had probably 7 or 8 times within a year. And fourth grade and then I got my tonsils out in fifth grade. Yeah. And so I know that can a couple things that can kind of prime our immune cells for the way they function.

Because I spent a good solid year being like overreacted to the strep. But also we know that those organs aren't there. They are immune organs. They're there to protect us from stuff coming in. And that can kind of change how our immune system reacts or doesn't react or overreact. So the other thing I thought was interesting is you done.

We started with drainage really gently because you had a lot of detox reactions in the past. Well, yeah. What did that look like for you before? And then, like, was draining in the beginning with us different because a lot of people come in, like, very sensitive with what I call functional trauma. They've gone to good functional care, but it's been rough, or they've had a lot of reactions and are not ready to really dive into much more.

Yeah, I think for me, my body is so sensitive, like it always has been. And I think that the drainage that we did, or anytime I introduced a new supplement, I would have to like take the dose and then stop and then reintroduce it again. And I my body does really well with homeopathic. And I think that that made a really big difference this time around.

It's a little it's just gentler on the body and it and it really works well. So I think the. Yeah, the slow dosage plus like starting and then going off and then going back on and then I was fine from there. Yeah. Yeah. Anything to to differentiate for listeners like homeopathy does push your body towards it healing and resolving its own problems.

So it's it's just a shove in the right direction and the body takes over and doesn't need to do resin, herb or an antimicrobial or something comes in and like slams the hammer down, it kills the bacteria, or it gives you a boost of a nutrient to boost a process. And for sensitives and those with pathogen load, that can be way too much, way too fast.

And then we already knew to like, you've done so much good lab work before you got here. Like, I get to see full genetic stuff, and I could see places where your body legitimately is missing some enzymes to do some things or processes weren't ideal, which makes sense of your sensitivity. And also we still had to work within the bounds of that.

Like we still do get better given these things. So, a lot of times when we start drainage, we use homeopathy. We don't get these big worst symptoms because we're not harming or we're not like slamming a hammer down in the process. We're pushing the immune system in the body to go work on its own time and function.

So we got testing back when we got testing. Were you expecting? Because, I mean, I told you like I think there's like I was were you like surprised or did you feel like results were like, okay, fine. It makes sense. I think it I was surprised, not surprised. I think it was more I remember, like crying when it came back because it was, it was almost this feeling of like, oh, has this been it the whole time.

You know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there are multiple things like the parvo was there and strep and EBV and lime and Coxsackie. So it wasn't just one, it was like the one was there. And the other things took advantage of your system that was down. And then you had the strep history which people are always like I don't have any tonsils or and I haven't had strips since then, but it can still exist in our GI tract and in our body.

We all have strep in our body, different strains. It's the levels that become an issue. So I think it was helpful to see to that one. Infection rarely travels alone, and when the immune system has been chronically overwhelmed, multiple pathogens can be there taking advantage of that opportunity. And that's also part of why your symptoms kind of seem scattered.

But you always had these like a little immune through lines, like the rashes, the MCAS, that kind of stuff. So I can see how it was. It's almost like peaceful. I don't know. When I first looked at infection stuff and myself, I was like, okay, now we're working with something because my doing this. Yeah, yeah. And there's something going on instead of just the scattering of symptom load.

So one of my favorite parts of your case was that improvements kind of showed up in maybe unexpected places first. But when you went through immune therapy, what was that like for you? How did it feel? Worse. Better. What was that process like? When I did the immunotherapy, I remember, I think the first two months or the s when we did the SSR, it was super physical.

Like I remember.

It was every or strep. It was like every time I took those I had some type of reaction, like the flu type feeling. And then when we got to the One M's, it was super emotional. So moved like right from the physical stuff. Like I was really feeling that and then it went right to the emotional that that second phase, remember, like, yeah, it is really interesting how it like yes for addressing infection, but a lot of times infections stay in our body because of the way our cells work or immune system remains dysfunctional because of the way we work.

Those of us who don't have great boundaries or had our boundaries crossed a lot, and we couldn't stand up for ourselves. Our immune systems really never learn. Like what's Katie? And what's the outside world? Because Katie had to fold a lot to the outside world. And it's so interesting how the reverse is true. When we start working on infection, sometimes our bodies like, okay, we are fighting these infections and we're fighting this other stuff that kind of takes Katie down and makes their dysfunctional.

And that stuff really does come out. Like it's not just like really on. You're like, I have baby hairs growing where my hair is not growing and my body temperature is starting to increase a little bit, showing some better signs of better fertility energy. You were having days where like energy, you'd be like, I had a really good day.

And that was so weird. Like, I felt good, like, oh, that's not supposed to feel like I had. Yeah, yeah. And then there were some, like, reducing, but the emotional portions really interesting. What do you feel like changed or that you noticed during that season when the emotional stuff was changing? Because that could sound scary, like, I'm going to go in this process and then I'm going to have a whole emotional upheaval.

What was that like? I'm trying to think back, like emotionally. Yeah. With the emotional or like, like what kind of stuff was coming up? I think that there I think that was a point in my life where there was a lot of, like, decisions that I had to make that maybe I was avoiding, that I had to do not like a scary way or anything that was like really drastic.

Just some stuff that, I was being pushed to do. And then, I mean, what other emotional stuff do you think it was just like, kind of like random crying sometimes, you know, like emotional releases. Really? Yeah. And I think, you know, some clarity around some things, like I remember you mentioning like I had to, like, decide this and it was just kind of really easy, like, I knew what I want to do and that was that, that was that everybody else going to deal with that.

So and that really is part of that new kind of boundary function where we're improving the immune systems boundary. But that also changes how we improve emotionally. It's all cells like it's all your nervous system communicates. All those things are related. So one thing that kind of lingered for a while was your cycle and hormonal stuff. So when we started to periods where a big issue.

What did what is your history there with negative period things look like my whole life. Ever since I had a period I. They've been so like I remember when I was in, you know, when I first got it, maybe toward end of middle school when I had, when I had it, I would like I remember like missing school because they were so bad and I was just on the couch, like, crying.

And it still was at that point, like from when I got it, when I was however many years old till I was, you know, 30. It always had been like that. It was always. I've never had a regular period in my whole life. It would range from like 28 days to 36 days. Never like a heavy flow, but really horrible cramping.

Yeah. Yeah. That was like your pain situation in the beginning. And then even what we know to be like have a procedure line in response where there's like frequent soothing the first day or two and a lot of mood swinging and like breast tenderness and the cramping piece. Those pieces are really consistent. And when we pair that with understanding how mast cells work and that they also release prostaglandins in addition to histamine, which you were dealing with a lot, it made sense.

But then when we work backwards, like we know those mast cells have been activated for years because of infection, stuff that had probably been there for years for you, but you'd had seasons where you'd been around mold, you'd had seasons to where you had a lot of Candida fungal overgrowth in your body because your immune system was not policing that well.

And so those period symptoms, I think I look back and I'm like, yeah, they were kind of all showing it the same way over time. But your hormone symptoms are really like downstream of the infection stuff downstream of your if you've got big GI issues then your hormones will be affected. You improve the GI, you improve the hormones.

And so moving into wanting have a baby. How did it feel? Did you feel like hopeful at the beginning when we were like, yes, we're going to work on the hormones. Yeah. I never I never thought my issue was like hormone driven, but I knew there was like a component of it. Like I always knew it was like a a moon or like a line.

And I knew my hormones would be affected by that and like, bad way and then a good way afterward. So yeah, I was super hopeful about it because I thought, oh, if I get this thing taken care of, then this thing will, you know, resolve itself essentially. Quick break. If you've been curious about homeopathy, this is your sign to try it at hey, hey, homeopathic.

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And that's important to talk about to you, because you and I have the upper hand of training and understanding how systems are related in some systems reflect other systems, but not everybody does. Like they'll come in and say like we want to conceive. We have I have really bad periods, I feel awful. We've been really anything really to hormone stuff.

And then I have all this inflammatory histamine stuff, and I really can't fathom being pregnant at some point because I literally just feel like crap. And then it also feels scary. But really, those things are related. Hormones are not this big giant mystery. They are. A few don't have any training. They're incredibly complex, but they are related. And so we got to see those things improve in time.

So one thing that came up to in the middle of this is life got a little interesting. As we were working through immune therapy, you guys were like wanting to sell your house, wanting to move into a new home. And so that's kind of talk about because that was like at the tail end of things. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

So like what did you guys discover in the home buying process. And like you had some history with it too. How did that feel. Let's go into that. Yeah. We had decided I mean it was like on and off that we wanted to move. We wanted a new house to avoid mold, avoid any weird smells because we had a 1960s house that kind of had like some weird smells.

There's this like some mold that could have been there. So we just wanted, like something that was clean, fresh start. And then when we got to or was it a pre drywall when this house then the new. Yeah. Yeah. I mean just just more context on that. Like the whole home buying initiating home buying process was motivated completely by health.

Like I started to have this suspicion that Katie's body was actually trying to tell her that this home wasn't good enough to raise a kitten, or it wasn't one to, you know, grow human in. And so I was like, let's just let's do this. Let's see what happens if we, you know, if we encounter any obstacles. But we didn't we just it was such a smooth process.

But that was after we got into the building process. So, I mean, acquiring the home, you know, finding the great the perfect location was no problem. But once we got into it. Right around the pre drywall inspection, we encountered a lot of mold on the framing. I got a background in construction, and I know what mold looks like on the wood when I see it.

They tried to push back a little bit. Back. Did it go? You know, this is just what it looks like when it comes off the rail. It's like, you know, taro and rubber and stuff. And I'm like, no, that's that's mold. And so, you know, yeah. Started to unpack that and yeah, it, it turned into a long drawn out process.

But you know, I think ultimately we were really relieved to have discovered it just so that we had that peace of mind that we did what we said we were going to do and find a house that was fit our health standards. Yeah. And not settle for something, because I think a lot of people would have gotten intimidated, you know, or all the pushback that we were getting, when, like, persevered through it.

So I think that your contacts that you had was really helpful to us as well to like, really push through. I have a history with mold, so I knew the health aspects of it. And then we have a family friend who also does mold stuff. So between all of that knowledge, I feel like they were actually, like taking us seriously.

And then it ended up that now they have to go through some training or something, I think. Yeah, the whole it changed the standards for the whole construction company. So we're kind of like a, like any case study for the company, but hopefully we help some other families along the way. Yeah, that's so cool. I didn't know that part.

And it is really I think that's super important because builders are usually building neighborhoods, multiples of them, which means hundreds of homes that affect many families. And it is it's a it's a hot button topic around here, because once people go through mold or go through a remediation, they realize like what it looks like and where it is.

And then we realize this whole hopeless equation that a lot of trusses and framework, because it is wood and it does ship on, you know, it's only you'll see it driving down the interstate on a truck, plastic wrap sort of, or sitting outside of Lowe's or Building Arts. It's very easy for mold to grow. And then once drywall has covered it, we don't know.

And all the time we encounter clients who are like, I'll ask about mold. It definitely sounds like you're dealing with nope, we're a new construction. Couldn't be any of that. Actually. I feel like in some ways, because our new construction, we build homes much more airtight for efficiency. But that also means that airtight impacts humidity in a lot different way, and it impacts the way your home breathes.

Our homes actually should breathe. You want to have some air exchange with the outdoors, but if we have mold on framing work and trusses underneath drywall, we may never know that. And if we've got high humidity in the home because we do want to have air efficiency in our homes, it's going to exacerbate that. And I would imagine and I mean, we walked with you guys through that.

But having to push back when you're so excited you have a contract, your house is being built, you have a date that you're going to get to move in, like all of that feels really good. And then to have to come in and say, actually, there's mold here. And then kind of fight to say like, no, for real, that's mold.

Like, this is an issue. Probably felt I mean, I felt it over here and it was not my own buying experience. It's not one time it was so hard because we almost had to, like, hypothetically, accept that we would just lose everything and we'd have to back out of everything because we had to stand firm on it was a non-existent one.

It was like, this has got to happen. We have to fix this or we're back out. And we didn't necessarily come out and say that, but we had to like, kind of just adapt our minds to be willing to go there in order to, you know, push through it. Yeah, yeah. And I do kind of want to shout out Joseph Reese, because he's a consultant that we refer to a lot.

There's a podcast episode with him, and I regularly refer to him when there's something a little outside of my scope or when we need to be. You just had a lot to navigate because you had to navigate the conversations with the builders. We need to really know exactly what we were talking about, what we were seeing, and then when we were asking for in terms of remediation and what would make the home safe based on like framing was already up.

It wasn't behind drywall yet, but it was already very much so in place. And so he came in and consulted with you guys and really helped to navigate that piece of, what do we do? And just makes me really glad that, like, the builders have taken that seriously, but also gone and implemented better steps. And I would think from a builder side of things, like if you're able to say like we have places and or processes in place for that to give families who have experienced mold confidence that would be such a value add like, I would love it if I had builders where I could say, hey, these people build houses that are mold

free, like they know what's up and they're going to handle it. So I think that's really cool. What would you say to somebody? I feel like Trevor dealt with a lot of it too. To someone who finds mold during building or move, what advice do you have? To be honest, I would I would tell them to seek out, you know, a qualified professional like, you know, the one we were just talking about.

He's just a tremendous help for us. And, you know, I mean, a truly qualified professional who has like third party, you know, certifications. And they're not connected to a company necessarily. I think having the health background to you that he understands was really. Yeah. I mean, he was he he was kind of setting, you know, he was a pioneer in a lot of ways because the remediation companies, they're not necessarily always governed by certifications.

And the certification process is really minimal, because everyone values profits so much, you know, these certifications and, you know, and trying to protect health actually makes it harder and more costly. And so people kind of avoid, you know, doing what is the right thing. And so, you know, he he was really good at helping us kind of pave the way of what should be expected and where we were allowed to push back and say, no, these methods aren't enough.

So but I think having an expert in your corner that can say no, like what you did, these steps were good, but they weren't enough. Not sufficient. That's a really hard thing to kind of say to someone, because I know, like after performing like a construction building something how hard it is to tell and install or be like, hey, you have to turn this out and redo it.

Yeah, like not easy. And it's really stressful, but, you know, it kind of helps you stand on where you're at. Well, it's a good mirror to, like the whole mold stuff. Just like standing your ground for, like, the health stuff, too. It's like a lot of times people, you know, oh, I don't see x, y, z on you.

Everything looks fine. But underneath you're like, no, literally something is so wrong. So I think just those two mirrors of each other are really, that's what it's about. It's just standing your ground and and, Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing. Yeah, yeah. So you guys are in your new house now? That's mold free. Things are going good.

Before we get to Trevor's side. Where is Katy now? Like, where are you now compared to December 2024, when we started with life. Like for you now. Health, life. Oh, am I answering that? Yeah. You about you. I know you read a ton. I thought you were asking about me for your whole time. For you? Well, right. Well, I'm pregnant now, so that's exciting.

Yeah. That happened very quick. My skin's been really great. I haven't had any of the dry stuff. All of its completely gone. Like, even pregnant. I feel like my energy has actually been really great. Of course, I have, like, some days are a lot tougher. Just, you know, that's how it is. But, Yeah, I feel like energy wise, it's been really good.

I, I just always keep wondering, like, if I didn't go through and do all this health stuff, like where I would be right now.

But yeah, skin stuff is great. I think the energy was the biggest thing for me. I was always really suffering. I think you're before you got pregnant even like working out consistently was a new thing where you weren't getting like tanked and kind of, oh my gosh I yes, I could not. That was a big one. I could not work out.

I remember a few years ago I had to stop working out because it was too taxing on my body. And it was like, for real adrenal fatigue, you would go on a walk. Oh, I would go on a 20 minute walk and be wiped for two days. Yeah, yeah. Whoa. I forgot about that, guys.

Yeah. Now I can strength train five pays a week and be feeling great. Let's go. I love that. Okay. Another thing that I saw when I was going through notes was. And you might not remember this, you were like, I read 37 books this year. And that was like in October of last year, something like great. But yeah, well that's okay.

You got the whole baby in the house thing going on, but improve comprehension. And I think some of your brain stuff like kind of ironed itself out a little more to where you were able because one of your beginning things was like you just couldn't like, pay attention. The dyslexia reading comprehension piece was just like frustrating. And then you turned into a reader.

Yeah, I turned over a new leaf that year. That's great. Yeah, I read 41 books last year, which is the most ever read in my whole life. Yeah. Yeah. But I think the dyslexia, I always had a dyslexia. Not where I would wear the, words would be jumbled. It was more of like pulling down information and being able to speak it, or like sounding something out in my head and then speaking it.

But I think it's gotten better. It's gotten better. Yeah, I still have a little tiny bit, but it's a lot better. Yeah. I think this is a good point in discussion, too, because people don't realize the connection. One, there's many different types of dyslexia. There's like visual, there's surface, there's naming directional dyslexia. And then there's like auditory processing stuff.

And Lyme interacts with the portion of your brain that handles a lot of processing. And so a lot of times we see that present in a may not be the whole reason that it's there, but will often see it even be on set. And an adult that has acute Lyme. So that's always interesting. And like I think on the outside if I was like, yeah, your dyslexia stuff's going to get better, people would be like, okay.

But truly that stuff does improve, processing improves, and that is a side piece that's affected by Lyme. So that part's really interesting. But, do you feel like your pregnancy has been different than you expected? Just thinking about years of you not feeling great and like, I know that you're a kid person and you've always, like, been around cancer and Danny.

Like what? Like that mental emotional piece. Like what you expected versus what's been happening. What's that been like? I know the other day I was like, Trevor, it's not as bad as I was thinking it would be. And he laughed. First trimester was rough, but, I think that's to be expected. I thought I would be, like, more physically drained than I am.

Like, again, like I said a few minutes ago, I just keep wondering, like, if I didn't, if all this other stuff wasn't uncovered. The immune histamine mast cell. Lyme. Yeah. Where that would put me. Now I just it's. Yeah, the energy piece was so massive for me. Like that was one of the huge driving factors. So if I had that plus like a pregnancy tired I would just be on the couch 24, seven, couldn't get up.

So yeah, to kind of add off that like something I've observed is not only during this pregnancy but in general, like I feel like you've grown a lot and increased your capacity to handle stress. That's true. Yeah, immensely. I mean, we've been through so much just the past few months, and I feel like, you know, past Katy Perry protocols and pretty deep dives, you know, like into and out.

Yeah. I mean, I can't even imagine her being able to get off the couch. Or being able to, you know, walk around and do things like going just everything that we've endured the past six months has just been absolutely insane. And yeah, it's been really hard, but we've also endured it pretty well. Yeah. And way better than I say that, you know, when stress does come up in the past and how do.

Yeah. That's true. So yeah. And Katie's been more present for it. I feel like when you guys have talked about, like, dealing with some of the mold stuff, I've just been like, oh, Katie's like, hanging for the whole thing. Like, she's in the mix and she's not like, Trevor. Handle. Protect me. I need to rest. That part's been.

And I only see little bits from here. But that physical emotional stressor piece absolutely interacts with your immune system. And until you kind of, like, learn that and then start seeing it, it seems not real. But it is so real. And I'm excited to for like, I mean, I'm on this side of having children and to be able to have energy and feel resilient when you have small children or you're not sleeping very much, or when you have toddlers, toddlers, multiples like those sort of things like that.

Such a different world that has opened up for Katie that probably wasn't going to be available before, which also would impact Jo's marriage. Right? Like when people have chronic illness and you have children, the husband often carries a lot of the physical burden, which is fair and fine. But it's hard as a mom not to be able to pick up the kid all the time and like, run and play and keep up and like just be present all day and those sort of things I think are really cool and something that will be available to Katie more because, you know, you did this work when you did and from this side of the street, because

I had some six seasons and I had little boys, I think that's exciting and something fun to look forward to. To, one of the things that we often talk about to with families is shared environments. And so we do know that, one, we share microbial environments in our home. We share physical environment. So that means like mold.

But it would affect both people. But we also can pass pathogens between each other. And bacteria. Let's just like bacteria. If you got strep in the house with one kid, it can pass to others. If we've got mycoplasma, that's another bacterial issue that can pass around. So there are things that can be shared in Lyme, can be shared sexually.

And so anytime I'm working with a partner, I'm always wondering, is this present in the other partner or has the other partners immune system handled this well? So let's talk about Trevor's health and where we kind of move from Katy into Trevor before we started working together. What was going on for you? Trevor? I was ignoring a lot of things that I just kind of learned to live with for a long time.

Largely with lung health and energy levels, GI like digestion issues for decades. And I was recognizing that I kept not only ignoring him, but like, neglecting these things to, like, actively, you know, smoking weed, for instance, when I know it's not good for my lungs, or, you know, binging on some food that I knew that I'll be fine, but probably not good for my digestive system.

So just constantly neglecting them, you know, you know, once a week, once a month, whatever. But still, I mean, those little things add up over time. And, Yeah, I was kind of feeling the, the calling to take a deep dive and try to work through this and stop the neglect that I keep doing to myself and getting into cycles.

Yeah. It was interesting to kind of listen to symptom stuff because you guys, I mean, you Trevor definitely identified like, okay, I have this sneezing situation, congestion, chronic mucus, ear issues like sometimes ear fullness and itchy weirdness. You had an asthma diagnosis in the past, and we kind of work through health history. And there have been seasons when wheezing was much more an issue.

Or you'd had there was still a decent reliance on albuterol when your lungs would get in a situation or in the past, like you spent a lot of time in wrestling, in football and performing at a high level. But in those seasons, a lot of times there are pieces that are in there to help. Kind of like prop us up because you do have a healthy body, you're able to do these things.

But as I listen to your health issue, there was a lot of propping up going on. Tell us more about that and kind of what what it was like to perform at a high level, but also not like, know that things weren't totally right, if that makes sense. Yeah. I think when you're, like, performing at, like, the high athletic level, it's, it's easy to kind of like just ignore and push through these small things.

I mean, your body is, is in a lot of ways your career or how you make your money. So, you would I would, I would always just push through things. I mean, that's kind of like how I was trained to deal with things. If I ever had, like, an injury or something, like, you know, I knew to pull back and that was like my sign to, like, slow down.

But if it wasn't an injury, like, shut up, you know, push through it, you'll be fine. Yeah. It was kind of just the mentality. And that's just kind of how it seeped into other layers of my life. So then my whole body muscle or organ, I would treat the same. If it wasn't like a clear injury, then I would just push through it.

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And in that world too, I think like they're good and wonderful Band-Aids. Like, if I'm having an asthma attack, please get me some albuterol, because I would like to stop having the asthma attack and regain my being alive part. But also there there were threads through there where there was a decent amount of steroid use in the albuterol form.

But then there was also steroid use for like performance enhancing or growth or, and whatever reason, those things are there for anybody. I don't really care, but steroids are an immune trigger and they will come in and prop up an immune system, which is why what happens if you get a, you know, you get some sort of big immune challenge and they can't quite figure it out.

We'll just give you a steroid shot and that'll boost you over. And yes, it does do that, but it interacts with the immune system and it actually suppresses the immune system because it falsely inflates the immune system for a bit. And if we look at like my kids who have asthma, allergies, ADHD will pop in there with those sort of things.

They'll be brain involvement. As that escalates. There's always steroid use through there. And is a steroid bad? No, I want a steroid. If there's a life threatening thing going on with my immune system, however, we have to recognize that it does in the long term suppress symptoms. It is a Band-Aid and it changes how the body works. So while Katy have these very clear like hormone symptoms, food sensitivities and Marcus type stuff, you are over here having asthma, sinus symptoms, congestion.

You guys are in the same environment. There were some same pathogens stuff going on. It was expressing differently. And you did have like if we put Katie's body in your body on a table, I would say, well, Trevor's body is actually more physically strong, more healthy. He has more testosterone. His body just being male, like he's going to be the one that comes out on top of your.

But truly, your history of the steroid use in there for various reasons was was causing a lot of suppression. You were still seeing stuff. There were other little clues, like you had numbness in your hands and some poor circulation stuff sometimes. And then I think some of the psych and mood things for me, I could look at them and I even pushed you for a while because you were kind of just like a and they were related.

Right. Like some of the, like some of the recreational drug use, the marijuana and, vaping even like when we got down into it, I would be like, how does it make you feel? Well, it kind of makes me feel a little worse sometimes, but then it does make me feel better. And I kind of pushed you like, what would it be like to see if we didn't have those things in the picture?

And as we did, like how one I think I remember specific call where I was like, this is a Band-Aid, sir. You're just propping stuff up. Do you want to be propping stuff up forever? And we were several calls in and I wasn't sure how you were going to take that, but do you remember that? And me kind of bringing that up?

Like, how did that feel so uncomfortable to have that conversation got to say like, wow. I mean, I remember how uncomfortable it was for me to not only hear that, but realized, okay, she's probably right. She's right on a lot of levels. Yeah. And it really was a Band-Aid and steroid use, anabolic steroid use, marijuana, like all of it was just a band aid.

And in a lot of ways, yes, it does make you feel good when it's active, but it's about the times in between. And I kind of started having these weird fantasies about what if I could find a way to live where there wasn't that gap in between? It's like I was always feeling good and I was like, that's not possible.

You can't do that. I'd always have these little stories in my head. And so then that's that's what made me always come back to, you know, the band aid. It's like, so when I'm using something else or relying on a substance, it's like, this will make me feel good for excellent X amount of hours or days or whatever.

And then, you know, I'll just get get another dose and I'll be good to go. Yeah, yeah. And it can be quieting some of those processes. Marijuana in particular is something that I'll see. And now it's so readily available in all of its various different forms. I'll see people using CBD for pain, and there's nothing wrong with that.

But that still is a tool that interacts with systems, that endocannabinoid system. It does help to calm pain in the body, but that doesn't mean that it takes away the reason that it's there, or even THC interacting with the brain and dopamine and, just neurotransmitter signaling. Well, infections can create histamine. That's a neurotransmitter. Infections can eat up our precursors to dopamine, which means you have less dopamine.

So then you feel kind of like a little depressed, like low motivated person. And it's not that you have a D or you've got super low motivation depression, it's that you have pathogen load in your body, like stressing you out. And you're your history of like respiratory stuff. Anytime you got asthma or wheezing or that sort of thing, you have an inflammatory process at play and the adrenals get involved in that.

Because cortisol is part of dealing with a respiratory challenge. It just is. It's why we give beautiful and why some of the things that we use to address those things work because we're just mimicking what the body would do to resolve that. But it makes your stress handling system really tired after a while. It makes you really sensitive to stress.

It lowers your ability to cope. And then people oftentimes look for things that help them cope. And that really was just where you were. And the respiratory thing really was kind of the, the thing draining your system the most. And so we did some testing. We saw, you know, I, we, we went with a little bit of what Katie had and we knew you'd been exposed to.

And then we looked at some respiratory routes and we saw high mycoplasma titers, high strep titers, and work through your process, addressing those and work through addressing some of that past steroid use. People think, okay, I know I'm different after I use x, y, z medication for some women as birth control. For some people it's steroid stuff. But we can work with homeopathy to help the body clear those original events.

And as we did that and you work through the process, how did things change for you? What changed physically? Emotionally? What what did you come to learn? Yeah, I mean, I think physically first was which I didn't know was possible, was just like this sneezing. Okay. Every fall and every April, you know, springtime starts blooming. I'm just going to start sneezing in the morning.

That's just how things are. That's how things always happen. And this spring has been like the most fascinating experience for me because I'm like watching everything bloom around me and we have no reactions. It was really cool to wake up in the morning and not have to sneeze all day, all day, during certain, you know, blooming seasons and seeing other people like, suffering, like, oh my God, allergies are so bad.

And I'm like, they are. Are you sure? We moved to like one of the worst places for allergies. So that says a lot of it was just over my head. And then like we got past spring and I was like, oh, I, I didn't have any reactions. I was like, wow, that's great. So yeah, that was one of the biggest ones, I would say.

But I would say, emotionally, I, I, I found it a lot easier to transition emotional states. I think typically like, and I don't know if it's just a man thing or not, but like going into an emotion and transitioning, changing, you know, the high and low or the opposite of emotion. Really hard. It's like if I get if I'm feeling happy, it's like I just want to stay there, you know what I mean?

Or vice versa. If I'm sad or, or angry, it's really hard for me to get out of it. Typically. And I've noticed some improvement and flexibility in those transitional states, where typically I would, I would struggle to change gears. So that was a big irritable irritability. Yes. I think as improved a lot. Much more improved though.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Finger the blood flow I think has improved a lot. They should be like blue. Yeah. Like in the mornings circulation. Yeah. Yeah that would get really blue. That nights and mornings that's my wheezing is gone. I don't really have any more. It was like loud. It's like it was. Yeah. I mean I would hear myself trying to go to sleep and, you know, imagine trying to sleep and, you know, you hear a noise and it's like, oh, that's my lungs, you know, and it's like inconsistent.

You'll hear like a high pitched squealing and it's just like weird. And then every now and then I would have nights where I would it would be what I call label labored breathing where I couldn't really sleep because I was actually working to breathe. Like I could feel myself struggling to breathe like it. It was scary at times, to be honest with you, because I would be like, okay, you know, like, you know, you don't need to call or go to hospital, but maybe you should just be ready just in case, because if it gets worse, you might need to.

And that's just not a I don't think that's a great place to put yourself in. Like I think there's a, you know, nobody should live like that ever. Nobody should ever feel like I think your case is one of the interesting because we do a lot with like there's childhood epidemics. We call them the for a is asthma Ozma, autism ADHD, asthma and allergies.

They have a relationship. And it's really interesting to consider that they do. And I would say like we're not dealing with autism spectrum stuff here, but there were a little ADHD qualities. And just kind of the way you learn to like function or deal. But the asthma and the allergy piece were both there, but you weren't like presenting with like, I have an allergy to this food or I have an allergy to this environmental thing, but you kind of did like the seasonal allergies were there, the asthma was there.

And I think a lot of times people think like it is what it is. This is just what I have. This is how I am, and it'll always be that way. But it's totally not. It's it's a function of the immune system. And for you, I think the past steroid use, though it's a good and helpful solution that's presented in those seasons, is not addressing the reason that it's there, and it bandaids the immune system to where it can't work.

And what we did was work backwards. We taught the immune system to work again, cleared infection stuff, and then that asthma wheezy piece, the sneezing, the allergy type response is gone now and it's kind of mind boggling. I think when people hear that the first time and I know that they look at me like I'm bananas and I'm like, you literally don't have to.

We sneeze and have allergies the rest of your life in the spring, in the fall. You don't because it's just your immune system not working optimally. And I think it's cool your story, because you guys did take really good care of yourselves. But there were still threads there. And as we address those things, I think two with allergy and asthma type stuff, it it drains your stress handling.

And so when I think about quality of life and you guys moving into having kids like Trevor's ability to be more chill and present and less irritable and more steady because his physical body is not draining him anymore, it's such a gift that you guys are giving to your little people. It's so much more than just like, I mean, it's super nice that Trevor's not wheezing and sneezing anymore, but that part's really huge and not something that we think about as much.

But, I do think I've admired along the way that both of you have been really willing to stay open one with me kind of pushing Trevor on some of the emotional pieces and like, you're doing a lot of this just a coat because you didn't learn how to cope and that's okay. You got a lot. There's physical things, but we got to get out of the coping and the band eating.

And then Katy, you for years were trying to get better and working different protocols and working through like over sensitivity reactions. And that's what sucks to you guys really like kept going through it. And then there's the financial investment of many functional providers and all of that. But how do you feel like this process affected your marriage, and when do you kind of learn supporting each other?

I think the biggest thing is that, like health has always been a really big value for me. So I think having that as like one of our top two, if not top first. Yeah, has really ingrained it. And I think us both going through this process together. It was around the same time I think was really beneficial because then it like I was just thinking about like his whole tooth journey.

That kind of happened during all of this and all that. Yeah, I know, I just I was just remembering I don't think you would have taken that as seriously if you didn't go through all of this to. I think since we went all through this, there is more sympathies, not the right word, understanding for, like, what I'm going through now.

Like, physically, like, I think you're able to witness that a little bit differently because you saw the other side of it when I was like, healing and now, like, creating. Life feels so weird to say that. Yeah. You're able to do that a little differently. That's just my. Yeah, I think I think I really got a deeper understanding of what support really looks like.

I think we, you know, throw that word around a lot, like, oh, I support you. But it's it's it's different when you, like, endure that same thing together and kind of go on a similar journey together. And, and going through what we did, I really do feel like I learned how to, like, really support better. And not only that, but like, kind of how she said, like, understand what she's going through, or what she's been going through for years and years and trying to, you know, all this big spaghetti mess of, of health and like, understand what's going on in my body.

It's not an easy thing to do for everybody. And, I, I really feel like just the support piece has drastically improved because I think passed River would be like, oh, yeah, I know how to support my wife. But this is such a deeper level, and I wish I had a better way to put it into words.

But it's just such a deeper level of support and understanding of that. Yeah, I think it gets more embodied to the empathy piece when a lot of husbands have symptoms and we can see them or their wives are like, hey, that thing is not normal. And husbands are like, yeah, I'm fine. But like when you change from identifying like, this is actually an issue, like, I don't want to live like this.

Like, this doesn't feel good. It's not normal. It's not helpful as opposed to excusing it. It kind of helped you embody more that like, I'm not just a tough guy. Getting through the thing like, this actually sucks. I don't like it. It does not feel good. Oh, Katie also has things that suck for her that like, they don't feel good for her.

She can't get rid of them. She's really like, it's it's definitely a very different experience. And I think it's easy because life is life and it requires a lot of us and we can power through for a long time. But shifting over to identifying like, and I don't love either to say like, okay, Trevor is asthmatic and he has allergies and he like, I'm not big on identifying with your symptoms.

A whole lot like these are things we're experiencing. We're going to work to correct them and resolve them. So you achieve a new baseline foundation of health that's better than what you have, period. But shifting into like you identifying them as problems because you did identify a few things. But even the emotional piece I was like, yo, isn't that good?

And once that shifted, I think there was there's more opportunity for empathy. And I wish that maybe I don't want to call it all the husbands, but it is often men who are the second in the process. They're gains to be made from identifying your own stuff is something that needs to be resolving to, but something that like, really motivated me.

Behind all this was just like I aspiring to be a parent, and it's like, how am I going to teach a kid how to regulate their emotions, take care of their body, and like, listen to their body? If I don't even know how to do it myself. And it sounds like really elementary, but like these are things that we really just don't.

A lot of people don't know how to do. And then we're kind of expecting this human, tiny little human to be like, oh, you know, just, you know, your back, rub your belly, it's going to be okay. Like, but we got to figure out how to do these things. Yeah. You can't give what you don't have. Exactly. Yeah I think that's good and important.

I think too, even in the realm of feeding, a lot of times when we see kids and the kid is the problem and the family health wise, and we have to challenge parents, they're like, hey, you have to be a little stronger than this. You have to hold some. You have to eat somebody, teach somebody how to eat a carrot.

You're gonna have to teach somebody how to eat. Not so much sugar, like you're just gonna have to do it. It's a growth opportunity for all of us. It's not just a growth opportunity for us to get Johnny better, but it's important that we are able to lead the things that we want to see in our kids, and everybody's collectively doing it.

So yeah, that part pays dividends in lots of ways, for sure. I'm going to close with the last question that I ask everybody, but with a little bit more of a marriage bent. Because that's kind of how you guys went through it. And we don't always get this benefit. But what would you tell somebody who is caring for somebody dealing with chronic illness?

Like, here's a way you can love this person well in this season, because those who aren't chronically ill, if you've not experienced it in some form or fashion, you don't really understand it. So how can someone love someone while working through chronic illness? Do you want to start? Yeah, I think my answer would be a little, vague, but I would just say, like, remain curious with your compassion and like, know that there is no depth or capacity to how much compassion you can have.

Like, you can always have more. You can always have more to give. And don't ever think that like you've reached your max. I think a lot of men stumble into, you know, this is all I have to give, but there's always more you can give when it comes to compassion. And just be really curious about what that looks like.

Wow. Thanks. I think for me, while I, I've struggled with chronic chronic illness for like so long, even before you, and I think it's hard for people to understand, like because a lot of things might seem made up and they're not. So that would be my biggest things is like, really listen, really listen to them of the person going through it because it's not made up.

Even if it if you can't see what it feels like or it looks like it's still real, it's still something that the person's experiencing. I think that would be my biggest one. And I. Yeah, just have lots of compassion. Because the body does a lot of stuff and it takes a lot of energy to go through any type of healing, not just physical.

It takes emotional energy.

It can be a lot of work, but it's all it's all good work. Yeah, yeah, I think that's important because the whole, like, invisible chronic illness thing is big. And I'm sure it's hard to, to like, I don't know, introvert experience was but like walking into marriage with somebody who has stuff but you can't always see it, but they don't feel good or like a lot of your stuff was energy wise.

Katie. Like it'd be easy for somebody to just be like, I'm tired. I can't do that. Are you? Obviously we're genuine about it, but it's very puzzling to someone who feels like, especially Trevor, like he may have the wheezing stuff, but physically, like, he's strong. He's like like football and exercise and been like, you know, robust in that way.

And you were not so robust in that. I'm sure it was kind of like, I would imagine it would be perplexing to someone who not experienced that before. Yeah, absolutely. I would feel guilty for like, I literally can't get off the couch, you know, like I couldn't do anything else. I would be beyond confused because I was raised in a way that's like, hey, you know, suck it up, push through it.

Yes. And yeah, it was so confusing to me that that wasn't possible. Yeah, yeah. Why not just pull yourself up out of stress and go, come on, recruit something in there. But sometimes you don't have anything to recruit. So anything. Yeah, well, I appreciate you guys sharing a lot. Both sides of things. I'm also super excited to meet this baby this fall.

But I just kind of wanted to close with just a final little point that, like, these two stories show us that symptoms are not random. Your body's usually responding to something. Your job is to not suppress the something we don't want to suppress, or silent symptoms or jobs to understand what your mean system or body has been trying to sail along.

And I think in the context of marriage, we learned here that like, there's a lot of fruit that comes from supporting each other as opposed to being adversarial or being frustrated with your chronically ill partner like Katie led the way on healing. But Trevor also super benefited by coming along and discovering like, oh, actually don't have to live with wheezing and sneezing forever.

And I think that part was really cool to watch with you guys. Just, the symbiotic ness of Katie was definitely more a symptomatic person, but there's been so much dividends paid for both of you and now for your family as you get that started. So thanks for sharing and spending time with us. I am excited for people to listen because there's lots of places to see, yourself in both your stories.

Thanks for having us. We're so happy to always share about this. This is something both of us are really passionate about, and something that we like to be vocal about and want to be vocal about is it's health. It's a value that we really carry truly, you know, in our family and we want to be about it. So thank you for the platform to share it.

Yeah, I really love that too. Just the concept of health is a value I think Katie might agree. Like for me, health has a value. Wasn't something I like, chose something that I had to choose so I could stay upright. And this idea that like it can be something that we value in esteem, like going forward is, is maybe new and different and something maybe people haven't thought about.

So I love that food for thought too that we're ending on. So thanks very much. Thanks for listening. I hope you're leaving encouraged, curious and hopeful. If you learned something, I'd love for you to share this episode with a friend. Hey, we are all healing together. You can learn more about my practice, our team, and what it's like to work with us at Hey Hey MAE.

I teach lots on Instagram and answer questions. They are. Each Monday. My Instagram handle is @HeyHeyElizabethMae. You can watch these podcasts, episodes and more on our YouTube channel. Hey hey Mae, learn about and enjoy our homeopathic line and take our homeopathic short course at hey hey homeopathic.com. Happy healing.