BONUS Book Club: Broken Country

Today's BONUS book club episode is about Broken Country by Clare Leslie Hall! With Bailey being out on maternity leave, today I (Morgan) have special book club guest Julia on to chat, which made for great discussion because we felt very differently about this book.'

If you read this one, we'd love to hear your thoughts! Did you like Beth as a character? Were you team Frank or team Gabriel? Did you guess the twists? Will you watch the movie when it comes out?

As always, if you enjoyed this episode, please share with friends and loved ones! 

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Transcript

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the one, two. Does she count you off? She usually goes 1, 2, 3. Welcome to failure, but I can, I can do it. Okay. Okay. Welcome to the Fill Your Cups podcast. We're your host, Morgan and Julia. Ooh. So this is a little different. Today we have a bonus book club episode for you. You have to go. Just kidding. That's what Bailey always does. But Bailey, my typical co-host and other sister, she is actually kind of out on a podcast maternity leave right now. When this episode comes out, we should have a baby girl, a little baby niece in the family. So come, come, come. Yeah. So right now she is off. Doing mom things and we are here doing podcast things. So Julia is filling in for her today for the book club episode, and then later on for the like typical episodes, uh, that are on Monday mornings. Are released on Monday mornings, at least those weekly episodes, it'll either be me solo or if I get organized enough in time then I'll have a guest on or something like that. But we, Bailey's taken a break for a while, so the plan is to expect her back when she gets done with about six, seven weeks. She said after having the baby be in postpartum and whatnot. And it'll be so fun when she does come back'cause you guys can hear all about. I can't. Can't wait. Yeah, it'd be so fun. So that said, Julia is here today helping me out. Julia is also in her book club, also reads the books with us that we talk about every month and usually, yeah. Yeah. Typically. And there's always someone in the group that doesn't read the book or it happens the book. It happens. Yeah. But, but you know, not every book is for everybody and not every book is for everybody in their current stage of life. So Exactly. Timing is important. Yes, exactly. So we are here to talk to you about Broken country, which do you remember the author? Oh, I don't, I'm gonna look it up. But we are here to talk to you about Broken Country. This is gonna be made into a film, or it was released that it was gonna be a film adaptation. Mm-hmm. Or something. So I think it's gonna be a movie. It's by Claire Leslie Hall. You've probably seen it, I guess it's on a bunch of, it's Reese's, it's on Reese's Book Club. And I think it was some kind of top seller or something like that. I really don't know. But it, it, it. It is the book that we read for the month of. September. Yeah. And I'm glad you specified the author because I remembered hearing that it was gonna be a TV show or a movie. I couldn't remember what, or if it was already a TV show or a movie. Mm-hmm. And so I looked up Broken Country Movie and there is a movie called Broken Country. Oh really? But it's not this book. Totally different characters. Yeah. So just so that nobody gets confused, like Yeah, that's funny. Yeah. I had no idea. But that makes sense. I do think that. I do think that there are so many books right now being made into movies and TV shows. All of them. It feels like, it feels like the universe heard me say I want to do, like I wanna read books that I can watch later. Yes. And then said, okay, and here you go. Yeah, bet. So I feel like that's so fun. But we did talk about this book. Mm. Recently at book club we had our book club and we talked about it with everybody and they were very mixed opinions. I knew there would be, yeah. I even said it to Chloe as we were walking in. I was like, I feel like there's gonna be mixed reviews on this. And it's funny because the first like four people that went all gave it five or four and half, half stars. Really? I was like, maybe it's not gonna be mixed reviews. And then, and then Morgan went change it up a bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like. I did not expect people to dislike this book as much as some of the people that did, but I, I am glad that you are co-hosting this particular episode with me because we had such differing opinions. Mm-hmm. And for me, I love this book. I felt like it felt really sweet and wholesome at times, but then it was really abrupt and intense at times. And that kind of book is one that like the, the aesthetic or the vibe of it being very, I don't know, quaint and villagey or whatever, that keeps me wanting to read and then they'll intense moments draw me into the story and what's going on and all of that. So this book was really good for that kind of vibe. Yes, I really, yeah, I really, really liked it. But I know, but the content was really intense for a lot of people. Mm-hmm. And isn't that a lot of what you didn't like? Yeah. So the book follows the main character, Beth, and it's purely from her perspective, right? It doesn't do any changing. No. It's just her perspective from the present, which is. This trial that's happening? Yes. Right? Yes. And then it goes back to before and you're kind of hearing about her life and the things that led up before it. And at the beginning I was very intrigued by the trial. There's a, a murder, there's a suspect, there's somebody on the stand. We don't know who it is. So like. Watching all of that unfold and reading to get to the juicy parts of that kept me in. Like I was really interested in that and this kind of the mystery aspect of it. Mm-hmm. And then I really enjoyed the parts of Beth's life early on. Like when the book first started it was, like you said, it was very picturesque. It was very quaint. Yeah. It was very, you know, idyllic kind of, and, and so like I was really like, I think I'm gonna like this book. And I thought that her. Love interest. Gabriel was really fun and like an interesting character. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I kind of pictured the entire time I was reading, um, the guy who's in a lot of nineties romance movies. Hugh something. Hugh Grant, maybe. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's who I pictured for Gabriel. Like the entire book basically. That's interesting, huh? Because they're in Britain, right? Was he also the really small guy on the Wonka movie? Yes. Okay. He was Theo one. Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm, I'm picturing the right person, but he typically plays like a really, like a sophisticated, A love interest. Yeah. Always a love interest, always kind of. Playful teasing. Yes. Jokey a little bit. Yeah. Which Beth and Gabriel had that kind of back and forth banter. They definitely did. Which was kind of sarcastic and fun. Yes. You know? Yeah. So like I wasn't really enjoying their love story. Yeah. And I was really root for them. I thought that they were great together. I really truly did. Mm-hmm. Um, I didn't love how jealous Beth would get around his other friends and Oh yeah. That girl Luisa, who he was really like his parents, really wanted him to be with. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like for me, the book started to sort of be less, I don't know, picturesque, quaint and like cutey whenever it started to become more about like jealousy and insecurities and stuff like that. Yeah. And then it just, and then I just started to become annoyed by the characters. Mm-hmm. I was annoyed by Beth and I was annoyed by Gabriel, you know? Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Sometimes it's. Okay. To not like characters because it keeps you rooting for someone and against someone. Yeah. But when you don't like the main character, that's really, really tough. Yeah. And I didn't, I didn't feel such a hatred for Beth. I guess I felt like I understood where she was coming from mm-hmm. In a lot of the cases. And I felt like they were really, really young in some of those things that you were talking about, like the immaturity of her feeling. Jealous about Louisa and stuff like that. So I think I just gave her a lot of grace, I guess. Mm-hmm. Or I gave her, I just didn't hold onto that that much, you know? Mm-hmm. And I, if she was someone in my life, maybe that would bother me a lot more, you know? But as a character in a book, it didn't bother me that much, so I didn't really notice that as much. When we were, or until we got to book club, that people were so irked by her, even outside of the cheating.'cause obviously the cheating. Yeah. Not okay. Yeah, I don't agree with that, but I, again, like I could kind of appreciate what the author was doing with. Being so swept up in her past love and blah, blah, blah. Even with the cheating that I wouldn't, I didn't like, but her other, those other character flaws I didn't really see. But so many people were like, she's just so selfish and she's so just. Yeah. Just there's nothing good about her. And I was like, wow. I did not really notice that. It is kind of interesting how it felt like everyone either loved it or hated it. Like there wasn't a lot of middle ground for this one. Yeah. There was lots of like four and a halfs and fives. Yeah. And then just like twos. Yeah. Yeah. So I gave it five stars. I I gave it a two. Yeah. And I, I loved it. I, I genuinely, let me see. So I actually left a review on Good Reads as well. And I wrote it before Book Club. Mm-hmm. Because a lot of the time I don't rate on Good Reads or Fable until after we've met for book club, because I don't want people to see it. Yeah. Like, spoiler, you know, keep it a surprise. Yeah. And so I wait, but then sometimes I forget what I would've said. And I like to actually review the book, like actually write a review for the book. So I wrote this review beforehand and saved it on a note in my phone. But my review, I said. I adored this book. It walked the line of feeling calm and quaint while also feeling intense and jarring at times at the beginning of the book. Oh yeah. I immediately had guessed that Bobby was Gabriel's son, but I was so enamored with the story that I was still in complete shock when they revealed that secret. I literally gased out loud and then said to myself, wait. I was expecting that. I saw that a lot of reviews compared it to where the Crawdad sing, and I didn't like that one at all. So if that. Was keeping someone from reading it. I would say ignore that, but I did feel like the book had everything that you might want, like suspense, romance, mystery, everyday slice of life. That's how I felt. And I think that I didn't realize how unlikeable so many of the plot points were and until we talked about it. Mm-hmm. In book club because, and I don't know, I think it was just. Because of the way that it was written. And yeah, I think that the way it was written helped me to kind of overlook a lot of those things. It was really beautifully written. Yeah. I did like the language and I liked the, Madeline said it had good vocabulary, you know? Yeah. And it was a nice setting, you know, farm town. Yeah. And like that kind of thing. And then the whole flashing back and then. Into the present with the trial that kind of keeps you on your edge, on the edge of your seat. Yeah. Yes. Wanting to know what's gonna happen. I love when a book does every other timeframe wise. Yeah. I love when they do it. I love dual POVs, like going back and forth with, with different points of view from different characters. But I really, really lo, I also really like, I just think that it, it's, um, I don't know, more accessible style of writing, but just. It captures you, you know? Well, you can tell a story that spans over a long amount of time quicker, like more condensed. Yeah. So I think when it goes back and forth, I think so, yeah. I remember when we read First Live wins for book club, I didn't like the back and forth in the time. Interesting. Because I really only cared about the present and what was gonna like happen to the storyline. That was in the, oh, yeah. I didn't really care about the lead up, but in this book it was different because. They didn't reveal all of the information in the present. Yeah. And so you kind of had to know what was gonna happen in the buildup. Yeah. So I was more invested in the before storyline. Yeah. So that I could understand the present storyline better. Yeah. So in this book, I would say I really liked the back and forth in time, but I don't always, yeah. See and I really, I really, really, I think I really like that. In any book really. Sometimes it does get detracting where you're like, ah, I don't wanna read anymore about the past. I just wanna know what's going on now. Right. But I really like that it can bring up different emotions and help you to empathize with the characters more when you have little bits of the past being brought in. It helps you empathize with what they're going through now. Mm-hmm. And what they might be thinking now and. Spoiler. But on my next solo episode, I kind of talked about this with the summer I turned pretty because I just read that series and watched the show too. And that is how that book is written as well. There's, it kind of goes back and forth and so does the TV show, but I really, I really love it in a book because they draw parallels a lot of the time. Yeah. And. Yeah, I just think it's, it's a smart way to add depth to what's going on now by drawing attention to what they might be thinking of because they have the context of this past event that happened in their life. You know? Have you ever read Tom Lake? No, but I have Is that in Pritchett or something? Yes, yes. It's so, I ha, I've had it on my want to read list for a long time. So it's a similar back and forth story and it's narrated by Meryl Streep, so the audio book is fantastic. Oh, okay. And it's another one of these kind of small town queens picturesque type vibes. But in that book, it's just funny. Because I was way more invested in the past. In her story. It was kind of like a how I met your father type story. Oh, wow. Like she's telling all of her adult daughters while they're working on this, they work for a cherry tree farm. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. So she's telling them all about like her. Her past lovers kind of in, in a story in her past days as like a, a Hollywood show person, Uhhuh. And so in that book, I didn't really care about them on the farm picking our cherries. You like, stop flashing forward. Like, just tell me Yeah. I want the juicy stuff. So it was just, oh yeah, these back and forward books. I don't know, I guess it really depends on what's happening. So I think it's so smart though, because it, it pulls you in. Yeah. Like you're gonna get through it quicker because you want to rush through those. Boring scenes or whatever. So true. Yeah. You know, so I think it's a really smart author move to incorporate something like that. It just changes it up and then it makes you wanna keep reading. Yeah. So, yeah. That's funny. I, yeah, no, I, maybe I should get, pull that one back up to the front of my list. Is there a film adaptation of that? Not that I know of, but now that we've talked about it, it's probably gonna be announced like tomorrow. Yeah. No kidding. Oh my gosh. But yeah. I really, really like this book and it's so funny because now that we're talking about it, after talking about it at Book Club, I'm like, what even did I like about it? But it really just was the vibe. It was just the style of it. I was very intrigued by, I was more intrigued by the romance than I was by the trial. Really shocking. Yes. I know. I just, I think I'm just that type of person. Yeah. I just think that the I Romance is my favorite genre. Mm-hmm. Of book. And sometimes I feel silly saying that, but I'm like, it's not just, I mean like s muddy type romance or like stupid romance a lot. It's like this was complicated, complex, yeah. Deep romance and I, I like, I don't know, I like reading about that. So I was interested in the trial, but I was actually not as interested in that as I was with like. What was going on with Gabriel and what was going on with mm-hmm. And what was going on with Frank. Not with the trial, but in their marriage. Yeah. And how that was gonna end up and all of that. So I was really, really intrigued by that. What did you, did you expect the reveal about Bobby not being Frank's son? No, I did not expect that. And, and it did make me go, oh, like now so much more. Makes sense. You know what I mean? But it made me dislike Beth even more really?'cause I'm like, okay, so not only did she keep this from Gabriel and there was this whole thing about the mom paying her off and, you know, whatever, like, so I wasn't that mad about her keeping it from Gabriel, but really it really bothered me that. At some point in the story, Frank had wanted to have a another baby. Mm-hmm. And. Bobby was like five years old at the time, and she was like, oh, I just feel like it's gonna be so hard to give attention to a newborn baby and still have this perfect relationship with Bobby. Yeah. So she basically told Frank that she didn't wanna be a mom of a newborn again because she wanted to be able to focus solely, solely on Bobby. Right. And then that just like made me so sad for Frank because like he never got to have. His own, his child, you know? And I know that he loved Bobby as if he were his own, and he was as if he were his own. And I mean, we're both products of adoption. So like I know that, that the bloodline doesn't necessarily make a difference, but like, I still just felt like she should have given him that, I don't know. And it, it just felt like another one of those selfish moves to me. Yeah, that was it. It just felt like. Beth did everything in her own best interest and, and nobody else's, like, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I would say with the exception of the children,'cause I did feel like she was, she poured all of herself into Bobby and Leo and later probably Grace, but I. Well, but even her spending time with Leo was to heal herself. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. But I did feel like, I don't know. At the beginning I did, I, I, I felt like it was to heal herself, but I didn't feel like it was that simple. I felt like she was also, like, after his dog dying and stuff like that, I felt like she was trying to console a child. Mm-hmm. Some of that probably was. Kind of the, like phantom bobby mm-hmm. I guess situation, but I don't know. I, I, I do agree that she was selfish, I guess, but like, moments like that didn't stand out to me honestly, before you said it in book club, I had forgotten about the whole not having a kid with Frank there. Yeah. Like, it felt like a very small. Mentioned to me. Mm-hmm. I couldn't even tell you how it happened actually, now that we're talking about it, but when like I, in my head, the way I remember it happening, if I was gonna guess mm-hmm. Like how it actually happened, is that it was mentioned that in, from her point of view, obviously,'cause it all was, but that she was like, well, at some point Frank and I talked about this and he wanted to, and I said. But I just couldn't imagine having someone detracting me from Bobby. And that was kind of the end of it. Mm-hmm. Like I didn't remember. Frank putting out much of a fight or voicing much of a, I think when I was reading it at like in the moment, I was the same, like just kinda like, okay, we're moving on. But it was after the fact when the reveal happened about Bobby not being Frank's biological, then I was like, Ugh. And she didn't even let him have his own, you know? Oh. And then, yeah, and then like this is all coming to me at the very end of like, this is just how I felt when I closed the book. Yeah. And I was like, but, and this and that. And like Frank didn't even get to bond with his 10-year-old baby daughter'cause he was in jail that entire time. Yeah. So like, I don't know. I think it just felt real bad for Frank. Yeah. Yeah. He was definitely the victim of the book even though, even though he. Honestly was one of the worst offenders because Bobby's, Bobby's death was largely his fault. Mm-hmm. He was definitely painted as not an unsung hero, I guess, but almost like, I don't know. You don't, you should feel bad for him. Yeah. Like that's how the, that's definitely how the author paints him, which was kind of odd to me because I did feel, I guess. I think that's what I liked about this book is it was complex. Every concept was for sure. It was, it was all a spider web That was, you know, nothing is simple and I, I kind of like books that are like that. Like it's not, there's more to unpack there because that is very realistic to me. I feel like that's just people and that's just the world and that's. We are messy. Like a lot of people were like, it's too messy for me. And not messy in the way of like, oh, it's too, there's too much drama. Which there was, but some people were just like, just too messy. Like cheating and then, and then, mm-hmm. Uh, kids that aren't like, what am I trying to say? Illegitimate or, yeah. I guess, is that that word? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not up to snuff with the tur these days, but, but it like all of that stuff and that it just, that it was like too messy or whatever. Mm-hmm. But I'm like, but that's how life is. Life is messy. I think the reason that I didn't like the book. Really is less about the plot lines and more just about how I felt reading it. And I know that that's why you rated it so high. Yeah.'cause you like, for you it had an op, an opposite feeling. But, and like I was thinking about this because I have given books high rating where I hated the story before and hated the characters. Really Like the push, for example. Oh. Which is a book that was kind of being circulated around our book club there for a bit. That's a great example. That's a great example. It was really disturbing. And the entire time I was. Anxious and I was on edge and I ended up giving it a high rating because I really liked the writing style and it was so compelling and I was just like very invested in the story. And I could say all of those same things about this book. Like it did have great writing. I was anxious and on edge. I was, um, compelled by the story. But I feel like at the end. I was just annoyed. Yeah, it was just, it really, it was just that feeling of annoyance that made me not like it. Yeah. I never felt that way about the push. I never felt annoyed by it. I felt wrecked by it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like there were negative emotions tied to it. But you didn't feel like, oh, I wish I wouldn't have read this. Exactly. Yeah. Because sometimes I get what you mean, like sometimes for the, for books that I truly don't like. Mm-hmm. I get to the end and I'm like, well, that was a waste. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And it kind of sounded like that's how you felt about this book. Yeah. And that, and honestly, that's how the people that rated it pretty low, that's how they, they were like, yeah, I kind of just wish I would've done something else with my time. Like I wouldn't, I would not have finished this book if it weren't for the fact that we're talking about it at book club. Which I love the resilience, but Yes. Club. Club. Yeah. Because you definitely don't have to finish the book to talk about it. Mm-hmm. But I, yeah, I do think that that's how people felt about it. And I have had that feeling with books before where I've finished and I've been like. Why did I even read that? That was so dumb. And I, of course, yeah. Am gonna rate them lower, and then I, like immediately put it out of my head. I was just like, okay. Like I immediately wanted to go onto the next book. Like, I didn't, don't even spend any time sitting there like digesting it or chewing it or like, interesting. I, I didn't think about it the next day. Like, you know, that's a bad sign. So that's how I, that's kind of how I knew. Yeah, that's a bad sign. I did think so. To be totally honest with you, I rated this five star well in my head I was like, this is a five star book. Mm-hmm. As soon as I finished it, I really, really loved it. But then I did start another book and there were three or four days in between when I finished this book and book club and I started the other book and it, it wasn't like a crazy awesome, it was a good book. Yeah. But it wasn't crazy awesome or anything wildly. Exceptional. Yeah. And by the time we got to book club, I was like, I kind of think that broken country might have been more of a four for me. Because I am not remembering as much and I feel like books that leave a big impact on me, I remember for a long time. Yeah. Like I could still tell you most of what happened in the measure or that one came to my mind too. Yeah. Or even, or the push, like you just brought the push to mind and there were things that were already, wait, did you read that? I thought you weren't gonna read that. I did read it. You did? It was. Fucking insane. Yeah. I did not like it, but I do. I read. But are you glad you read it? Yeah, and I do think I rated it high books like that though. Psychological books. Mm-hmm. I have to take a lot of time between them. Yeah.'cause I, for instance, I just read a thriller book. The last Mrs. Parish and oh my God, you guys, if you read this book, I'm so sorry for your mental health, but we've been talking about this one for a minute. It's been over a month. Yeah.'cause I, and I know that because we've had two book clubs since then. Mm-hmm. And I have only read like lighthearted. Not, nothing bad will happen. Yeah. Like not books like this, like this book was, there were sad parts and kind of freaky parts and stuff, but nothing like psychological, you know? Yeah. And so I have not been reading thrillers and I have not, because this book left a huge impact on me. And I do think it was a good book. I read it four stars, but, and I think that's what I rated the push as well. Mm-hmm. But I do have to take so much time in between them because they f with my brain. Yes. And they, yeah, they just. Sit with me. But that also, I mean, that is a sign of a good book, right? It's, that means it was well written. And that's what I'm saying about this book, broken Country. After a few days, I already was fuzzy on some things and the story, I don't think I'll forget necessarily, but like the parts of why I loved it so much. Yeah. I was like, I can't even really remember, but it, I think it truly was just, I closed the book and I was like, wow, that was. A fun journey, you know? Yeah. And I felt really good about it, and I don't think it helped. That last month was growth of Pearl Earring. Mm-hmm. And I rated it a four. And again, I think it probably should have been a three, but timing made it a four for me. Yeah. And then coming off that I was like, okay, well if that was a four, this was definitely a five for me. Oh yeah. Yeah. You kind of have to think about your previous rating. Yeah. Yeah. So honestly, if I'm being totally honest, girl, the pro earring probably should be a three, and this probably should be a four for me. Yeah. But. Whatever. I write books right after I read them and that's fine with me. You know, I don't have to go back and change it. Yeah. But, but no, a lot of people really loved this. It's funny, I was at Hallmark yesterday looking for something for Bailey, actually. Oh. Um, and I was looking at the little willow tree. Figurines and I saw one, it was a man and a woman and a little baby. And the, the title of the figurine was, we are Three. And it had a cute little saying underneath it. Oh, so cute.'cause that was a big thing in this book was, it was, I am yours, you are mine. And we, we are three or he is mine. He is yours. We are three. I don't know, but the we are three thing. I think it's like he is ours. We are his and we are three or something like that. Maybe. Yeah. Jordan would know. She wants to frame it. I, yeah, i liked that quote a lot too. I, I didn't remember it quite as much as then, but that was another thing we talked about in the group. Me, neither you or I are moms right now, but I do know that about half of our group, it has kids. Right? And that was something that really impacted the way that they. Read the book, I think. Yeah. Either positively or negatively. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think, like, for instance, Jordan, she really, really loved that passage. Mm-hmm. And, you know, really loved that. But then for some, for some the, just honestly the, the loss of Bobby. Yeah. And the way that that went down was kind of. I wouldn't say unforgivable, but couldn't get past it. Yeah. Hard to move past for a lot of our moms in the group, which I totally get, I mean, I still can picture the scene myself, and it's ter it's horrible. Mm-hmm. It's absolutely horrifying. But I think without ha, like without fully being able to empathize, because I don't have a child of my own. Mm-hmm. It didn't, it didn't make it. Un passable to me, I guess. Yeah. You know, I don't know. How did you feel about that? It didn't put you in a state of fear and anxiety and Yeah. Like stress over your little ones that are running around, you know? Right. Yeah. Like, I would, I would hate to be feeling that way. Like Yeah. You know, you read books to escape and you read books to, yeah. Um, well, I don't know why you read books. I personally, I like to feel. Good after reading a book, like, I like to feel. Yeah. I like really warmhearted books and, you know, I, I like to feel good. I like a good feel good book. Yeah. And which that, see, that's something though about Beth that I felt like was a good quality of her, was she, she really, truly did not hold Bobby's death. I love Beth as a mom. Yeah. But she also really, truly didn't hold Bobby's death against Frank. Hmm. I felt like Did you? I don't feel like she. I don't feel like she made him feel bad, you know? Yeah. Like I don't feel like she said, ever said like, this was your fault, or mm-hmm. Like that. Even though he did, he did feel bad. He did feel like it was his fault. Mm-hmm. But I do feel like she maybe had a little bit of resentment towards him. I think she did a little bit too, but I felt like it didn't really impact how she. Was as a wife, I guess, until Gabriel and Leo showed up. I feel like it did because that's like what made her think it was okay to cheat on him. Like gave her a little bit of like, because he did this terrible thing, I don't feel as guilty about doing this terrible thing that I'm doing. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's true. It just was so much longer after. Yeah, so I think, I just don't think of it as related, but I mean it is, it definitely is related. Like in her head, she's kind of like, oh, well. This terrible thing happened to us because of him. This other terrible thing can happen to us because of me, I guess. And it may have even been more subconscious. I don't know that it was ever clearly written. I felt like she did say that somewhere in the back of her mind. It was payback's the wrong word, but even. Mm-hmm. But I, but yeah, I, I do think it was more subconscious. I don't think it was intentional at the time. Yeah. But I don't know. But that's the thing with cheating, I feel like most often it comes from being unintentional than being intentional. Yeah. And I think that that's, that's, I mean, sometimes people are intentionally seeking out people who aren't their partners. That's true. Mm-hmm. But when it's something like this where it's an affair and Oh, we slipped up and whatever, and like Jared and I have talked about this, and it's like. Even'cause we talked about, oh, what would, like, what would happen? Like what, what would you feel if you found, if we found out that one of us cheated on each other or whatever. Yeah. And the go-to answer I feel like is always, well, you know, was it like a one time thing or was it like a full on affair? And even then, you know, we both were like, I guess we could understand a one time accidental, like maybe I was too drunk or like, maybe I was just like, swept up in the moment or something like that. And it happened one time and not gonna happen again. Whatever. Like maybe I could understand that more than like a full on ongoing long emotional affair type of situation. But even then, even with like a one time thing we have like Jared's been like, yeah, but the, then there like even then. It doesn't just happen on accident. Like it doesn't, I don't know, like there's just all these tiny little baby steps that get you there. Yeah. Like flirting or, I mean, there has to have been so many interchanges that made both parties think the other one would be open to it. Yeah. So at that point it still is like, I don't know, it still, it still is just as bad. What did you think of Louisa telling Beth that it wasn't too late? For her to rekindle things with Gabriel. Like, do you think that was good of Louisa to say that to her? I think that was to herself. I think that was nuts. And I also think that Louisa was a character who, I mean, she leaves her husband for someone else, right? Yeah. So I think that she is kind of just speaking from her own experience. Mm-hmm. And that's all we can do as people, but I don't. I think that based on what Beth valued, I think I felt like they had different values. Mm-hmm. And Luisa was saying, Hey, this thing that you wanna do, it's okay. You don't have to like upand your values because my values are different. And that's just the thing when you take advice from someone who has different values than you. Ooh. Yeah. That's a really good point. You know, like, it doesn't make sense if I don't know. If you believe in God and you're talking to someone who doesn't believe in God or believes in Buddha or something like that, they're gonna give you advice that follows that. You know? Mm-hmm. Or if you're talking to someone who like, I don't wanna have kids or something, you know, and I'm talking to someone and I'm giving them advice about their lifespan and not having kids or whatever, like Yeah. Or like a career move, like, yeah, yeah. I would totally take that career. Don't. Anticipate having kids or, yes. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. It just, it just doesn't, it, it's bad to take advice from someone that you don't agree with at a fundamental level. Yeah. I just, I just think that Beth was looking for someone to agree with, honestly. Mm. Because I think she, she needed closure as well. Mm-hmm. And felt like she never wrapped up that part of her life. But yeah, I thought that was dumb. What did you think? Well, yeah, I definitely thought that, I mean, just given the fact that Beth was married and like. Yeah, it's okay for Gabriel, but it wasn't, it wasn't okay for Beth to obviously have an affair. I don't think that's necessarily what Luisa was saying either. Sure. She probably meant like, you know, do it the right way. You can leave Frank and Right, like I left Gabriel. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe that would've made Luisa feel a little bit better herself. Yeah. Then Beth did it too, but honestly, yeah, maybe it was self-seeking for Lisa because she was like, oh, then I'll feel less bad if my husband's. If my husband that I loved is happy. Right. You know? Yeah. So she was kinda like pushing Beth into Gabriel's arms. Did Louisa cheat on Gabriel before? Like did she sleep with the guy or no? Mm, I don't know. I don't remember if it was clearly stated or not. Whether she, I know she said she fell out of love with Gabriel. Mm-hmm. Or no, I don't even think it said that. She just felt in love with somebody else and she felt like Gabriel never truly loved her because he was always so. I hooked on Beth. Yes. Yeah, she definitely did say that she had never felt love like that. Yeah. Until the guy that she ended up with. Yeah. So, okay. Beth ends up with Frank in the end, like he does his 10 year sentence and then he comes back and Beth chooses him over Gabriel. Mm-hmm. Gabriel and Frank end up like becoming. Okay with each other because of Leo. And Leo grows up and, excuse me, visits Frank in prison and they all end up being like friends in the end, right? Yeah, I guess so. I mean, do you think that if you were Frank, you could ever trust Beth again, or would you always be wondering. Even if she doesn't ever do that again, like even if she never like sleeps with him again, like is, I would always be wondering Yeah. Yeah. To be in love with. Yeah. That totally makes sense. I don't know. I feel like that would just be so hard. It would. It would. Yeah. And yeah, I don't know. Frank's just lost so much too. Like now he's lost his brother and he, he's lost his kind of son, I guess. But yeah. You know his surrogate son. Yeah. And he is lost. 10 years of his life. Uhhuh lost 10 years with his baby girl. Yeah. Where he could have been bonding, you know, and, and really lost, I guess his relationship with Beth. Like that's kind of out the window. Yeah. Even though they stayed together and Yeah. Like tried to restart. Yeah. With this new baby I loved. Could never be the same. See, but like I loved when he showed up to the farm at the end and. Gets to see her and she recognizes him'cause she has a picture of him. Yeah. And you, you kind of get the sense that he's okay. Yeah. Right. Like he's not Yeah. Which is kind, gonna spend the rest of his life dwelling on everything that happened. He's just gonna move forward. Yeah. Which is kind of how he was in the book. And I think that that's innately what was wrong with him in Beth is Beth was dwelling on the past. And Frank was way too much of, honestly, he wouldn't even, he didn't even like processing things with her. Yeah. You know, so she never really got to process the loss of Bobby. She never really processed the loss of Gabriel either. Right. Yeah. At as like her first love, because all of her family was just like, good riddance. Yeah. Well, and, and also because she's now pregnant Uhhuh, so she's now responsible for someone else. Mm-hmm. And then she gets married to Frank. So bottled up all her un Yeah. Un unresolved, unresolved feelings. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and Frank, they just had different communication styles'cause they were the opposites in their thought processes and the way they communicated. Yeah. So I feel like that was just innately their issue. It really was a good book. I don't know why I rated it solo. Honestly. I think cheating just, just drives me crazy. It just annoys me. It is really, I'm like, I don't care how bad things are. Or like, you know what, what le how many levels of grief there have been or how complex it was. Like you just don't do that. You're still responsible for your actions. Yeah, and we, Bailey and I did a mantras episode and one of mine comes from. Uh, many book clubs ago where one of our social workers,'cause we have multiple in the group. One of them said something like, it's an explanation, not an excuse. Yes. And I had that thought the whole time we were talking about this book at book club. I was thinking that with Beth and the cheating. Mm-hmm. Because there was a lot of back and forth about, but she felt this way and, but this and whatever. Mm-hmm. And I don't agree with it, and I would never excuse it, but I think the author did a very good job explaining how she got there. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I felt like. All of these levels of grief and miscommunication with Frank and you know, him not really being emotionally available all the time. Mm-hmm. Him being kind of the fault of her son being gone. All of those things kind of explain why she did it, but they don't excuse it. Yeah. And I think that was maybe my issue is that maybe I felt like the author was trying to excuse it, like trying to say. That it was okay. Like I don't feel like Beth's character ever showed true remorse. Yeah. And that bothered me. Yeah. I mean obviously she got caught and she had to deal with the consequences and it was all of that. Yeah. But like, I don't know. I just don't know that like anything in her character truly changed. Yeah. No, I think you're right. So yeah, that's why I gave it the rating I gave it. Yeah. I think it's so funny'cause I feel like. You're like, if really was a good book, I should have had rated it higher. And I'm really, I'm, and I'm like, I felt this way in book club too. I'm like, there's so many things I didn't like about this book. Why did I get so high? As high as you possibly can rate something, I don't know. But maybe we both settle for threes. No, I'm just kidding. We keep our ratings. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was really, really good. I, I, I felt good reading it. I would, I would recommend it to someone. Yeah. Honestly, and I. I thought it was great to talk about. It was, yes. It was a really good discussion. We were at book club for two hours. Yeah, that was awesome. And that was mostly just the talking. Yeah, really just, yeah. Yeah. And everyone had a lot of good stuff to say. Yeah. Did Alexandra say why she chose this book? I think it had just been on her want to read for a while, and it's on Reese's book Club picks, you know? Yeah. Those are always pretty solid picks, but I'm not for sure. Well, are there any final thoughts about the book that you wanna talk about? I feel like I've said most of my peace. Well, thank you for being on again today in place of Bailey, and I don't know if Bailey will be back for the next book club episode or not. But if she isn't, then I'll have someone else from book club, maybe Julia, maybe someone else, maybe two other people who knows. And we will have another one for October, which the October book if you guys want to read along with us, is Frozen River, which. Apparently I, I don't Have you looked into this book at all? That book title has the same exact title vibe as Broken Country. That's so funny. Oh, that is funny. It's like a descriptive word and then a setting, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it, it does, the front gives like Handmaid's Tale. Mm-hmm. To me, because she's wearing a red gown, but I don't think it is, but I'm pretty sure it's kind of like historical fiction type vibes. Maybe, no, I don't think there's any like magical realism. I was thinking that might be, but yeah, so it it, I think it's like historical fiction. Oh, we better get on this one.'cause 448 pages. Oh, okay. Just so you all know, it's 448 pages. You might wanna know that before October, but, or before you listen to our next episode. But the next episode or book club episode will be about Frozen River, our October book. And then, and then as usual, we'll have like our usual Monday morning episodes too. So. Alright. So until next time. Oh, I never said what we were drinking. Oh yeah, we got some fun drinks. But I always forget with book club episodes, we just go right into the juice. But we tried the sonic flavored water things that have been, they've been like blowing up my social media honestly. Everyone's talking about'em. Yeah, it's true. So they, they're both flavored waters and Julia's is raspberry peach. And mine is raspberry coconut. No, strawberry. Strawberry. Mm-hmm. Strawberry peach and strawberry coconut. And apparently the strawberry coconut is a mermaid water, he said. But I don't know. Anyway, so that's what we have today. That's what's filling our cups. And hopefully this filled your cup. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Cheers. Cheers. Cute. Right as we cheered. I got my reminder to move.