John Fitzpatrick on Force Marketing’s GM Canada Win and Dealer Retention

General Motors Canada has selected Force Marketing to support after-sales marketing for its dealer network, marking a significant expansion of Force’s OEM-certified footprint. On this episode of Inside Automotive, John Fitzpatrick, President and CEO of Force Marketing, joins the show to unpack what the partnership means for Canadian GM dealers and where retention strategies are headed in 2026.

Fitzpatrick explains how Force Marketing’s inclusion in GM Canada’s CSSR choice program reflects a broader industry shift toward fixed ops performance, cleaner data, and more integrated customer communication. As affordability pressures push consumers to keep vehicles longer, dealers are increasingly focused on retention, lifecycle marketing, and execution across every customer touchpoint. The conversation also explores how data hygiene, operational handoffs, and OEM alignment can either strengthen or undermine long-term dealer profitability.

Key discussion points include:

• Why GM Canada selected Force Marketing from a competitive OEM RFP process
• The role of retention and fixed ops in dealer profitability entering 2026
• How Audience IQ supports personalized, lifecycle-based customer communication
• The importance of data hygiene within DMS and CRM systems
• Execution challenges across marketing, BDCs, and frontline teams
• What retention-first strategies mean for dealers navigating longer ownership cycles

Inside Automotive with Jim Fitzpatrick is powered by CBT News, your go-to source for the latest news, trends, and insights in retail automotive. Subscribe for more interviews with top industry leaders, dealership innovators, and experts shaping the future of automotive.

For more content, visit CBTNews.com and follow us on your favorite podcast platform.

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Welcome And 2025 Recap

Jim Fitzpatrick 0:07

Welcome to Inside Automotive with Jim Fitzpatrick. Joining us to talk more about this and his partnership with that company is the president and CEO of Force Marketing and also somebody that's very close to me, Mr. John Fitzpatrick. So thank you so much, John, for joining me in the studio. Thanks for having me. This is like Father and Sunday at uh at CBT News. But uh no, congratulations. That's that's a big win uh that you uh scored there in Canada. And uh before we get into that though, I would love to talk to you about 2025. Here we are in January of 2026. Um dealers that I talked to said it was a pretty decent year after all of the headwinds that we had started the year with tariffs, as you know, and then uh ran into some other issues along the way. And uh but at the end of the day, many of the dealers I'm talking about, or talking to, I should say, have said it was a it was a pretty decent year. What what did you find among your clients?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Uh the same, the same. You know, they're still struggling with like looking at 2021, 2022, 2023 complex. Shaking that off. Yeah, you know, they would love to get back to the the profitability of those days. But they looked, they knew it was coming. Right. And uh and you know, early in the year we were we were seeing a lot of the economists say 13.2 or 13.9 as the SAR goes, and a lot of us were really um struggling to see where they were seeing that. Um tariffs are no tariffs. I just the demand was too high in in in in in US to to look at that sort of a decline. And so here we are, about 16 million, which is where we thought we would be. Right. And um and and by and large, our dealers have had a good year, and as a result, we had a good year. Sure.

Fixed Ops As Profit Engine

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Um we um we're we're really you know, me and the team were proud uh of the fact that we've got record employee retention right now and also record uh client retention. And so we're doing something right, yeah, you know, when you when you look at those two metrics coming out of your years. We're very proud of that. We want to continue to keep doing what's right for for our dealer partners and make sure they're succeeding in every business unit inside of their dealership. Uh we know if we help their business grow, there'll always be a place for us inside of their partnerships.

Jim Fitzpatrick 2:28

Good. Many dealers did uh tell me that um fixed ops save the day in terms of profitability. We all know what a role fixed ops has played in the bottom line of dealerships here in the last uh few years, number of years, really. And uh I know that's something that your company uh has a whole division dedicated to, but uh fixed ops has become a major player, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 2:50

There's no doubt. There's no doubt. And and look, for for Ever and Auto, right? The dealers really knew that 80% of their profits came out of fixed stops. Make sure you've got a high absorption rate. Yeah. Make sure your your your fixed stops machine is just that a machine, and then let's really focus on on how we can help, you know, move the needle each and every month in new and used. But you got to make sure that machine is is really sort of operating uh on all cylinders. And so that's always been an emphasis for us, even more ever since we acquired GSM, with that product being so focused on retention and lifecycle management. Right. And so it's a big part of our product offering. It's a big part of the partnership we bring

GSM Acquisition And Results

SPEAKER_01 3:25

to the table.

Jim Fitzpatrick 3:25

Sure, sure, that's great. And you're referring to Gulf State's marketing, which you guys acquired actually right after COVID hit.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Right after COVID, January 2021. So crazy five years ago.

Jim Fitzpatrick 3:35

And uh that that's worked out well. It's worked out very well. That's good, that's good, very good. Let's jump into this uh big news um for uh to be selected by General Motors Canada. Um that that's that's pretty cool. Talk to us about that and and uh what that means for your company.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Yeah, we're really excited about this. This is a big opportunity for us. Um we were you know part of the 20

Winning GM Canada Retention Program

SPEAKER_01 3:55

plus you know uh agencies that got an opportunity. 20 plus agencies. Yeah, to to look at the RFP, you know, potentially more than that. And that was sort of the number that I heard was narrowed down to 10 or 11 that got a chance to go to Toronto and really pitch for the business. And uh we had an opportunity to do that and and then just kept making it, you know, make our way through it. Look, I think at the end of the day, um what what we were able to win this deal, this opportunity uh with General Motors in Canada uh was leveraging our what we've already built or bought and brought to the table and our our partnerships and our uh uh reputation in the industry. Uh that was a big part of hey, you don't have an OEM brand where you've sort of been named, you know, the retention lifecycle management partner, you know, why should why should we choose you guys? And when they look at you know our partners all over North America and they look at the other 12 OEMs that have that have named us certified partners in the States, and they look into those programs and how effective we've been with not just keeping the brand in mind, but layering in the dealer's needs, layering in customization and personalization for the for the the audience, the customer, sure, right? And and that our platform, AudienceIQ, that's what it's focused on, is is we've built a CDP that allows us to market better, more personalized, more targeted, you know, cut out a lot of the waste. You know, when you bring all that together, and then you look at the history of GSM that we were able to showcase, right? Because now that's an asset that we own and say, well, if we're trying to build anything like Toyota Care, um uh GSM was instrumental to that you know over 20 years ago in the foundation of what Toyota Care is today. And so we were able to leverage that rich history uh that the GSM brand has and the innovation that Force has brought to the table uh with audience IQ and the way that we think about uh data, the cleansing of data, how to connect to different audiences in a meaningful way, all rooted in helping GM dealers in Canada with this really important word of retention. Right. Um we we were able to sort of win the opportunity. And we can't be more excited about it.

Why The Choice Program Matters To Dealers

Jim Fitzpatrick 6:00

That's fantastic. And you've got, uh it should be said, a ton of General Motors dealers here in the States as clients, right? That's right. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

So you're familiar with with everything that's very familiar with the brand, the guidelines, what they're looking to do. Right. Uh and and so we were able to kind of come in there and showcase sort of how we would approach it. They felt like it was a unique angle uh and something they wanted to bring to their dealers. Sure, sure.

Jim Fitzpatrick 6:23

Um for from a dealer's perspective, why does this partnership matter?

SPEAKER_01 6:27

You know, if they're looking if if they feel like their their communications to their dealer, uh I'm sorry, to their customer have gotten a little stale or could be a little bit more personalized, more timely with where the customer is inside ownership of that vehicle. And and just elevate both the products they offer and the timing component, uh then we would be someone that they should look into. Okay. You know, I should I should point out it is a choice program. It's the CSSR choice program, so customer sales and service retention choice program. Choice is important because what they decided to do was pick four partners. We're one of four. Okay. And so if you're a a Canadian dealer with the with the GM nameplate and you're thinking about how to elevate that, we would be one of four options. Okay. Um and I would just really like the opportunity to showcase all the differentiation that really starts with our audience IQ platform and then goes on through both offline and online sales communications to reach their customers.

Jim Fitzpatrick 7:25

Yeah, that's fantastic. As you look ahead, how

Raising The Bar With Clean Data

Jim Fitzpatrick 7:28

does this partnership raise the bar for what dealers should expect from from uh marketing programs?

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Yeah, look, uh again, it raises the bar to stay connected both to the customer, both on the sales and service side, right? I mean, that's an important piece. Yeah. Uh too often we still see lots of vendors inside of each dealership and mixed messages going out. Well, I have someone that handles my fixed op, and I have someone that handles my sales opportunities. And when you think about how important retention is, and you think about all the different options that a consumer has today when they're making that decision of what car to drive around, and the different needs that they might have, how many miles are they driving, whether or not they want to plug in EV, full EV, you know, Ice vehicle, whatever the situation might be. Um it's really important that the communications effort uh on behalf of the dealership is really dialed in to all of those options that a consumer has. And again, the timeliness, right? And again, the the the cleansing of the data, right? I can't, you know, I can't tell you how important that piece is.

Jim Fitzpatrick 8:23

So many shows on that very topic.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Because it really the the the the the consumer is really off put when they expect that you treat their data properly and then you don't, right, and you don't uh address them the correct way, or you're asking to buy back a vehicle that they traded in four years ago, by the way, one of your dealerships. Yeah, it's it's really a trust uh break moment. Right. And we uh when we partner with our dealers, it's on us to make sure that trust that they have with the dealer, with the manufacturer, everybody in between is as solid as possible and clean data gets you there off the off the get-go. Right? It's not gonna keep you there, but it gets you there from the get-go. Right. And so it's really important that the the the cleansing process of the data inside the DMS and the CRM is as top notch as it can be. That's definitely something we bring to the table. And then just a connected audience, right? Making sure that we understand that, you know, consumers are all over the place, right? They're streaming inside of the house,

Connected Audiences And Reducing Waste

SPEAKER_01 9:20

then they're bringing their decision habits, you know, to their to their laptop uh from a work environment, whether that be at home or at their actual work, and making sure that's a fully connected environment and that we're reaching them where they are, meeting them where they are in the process, incredibly important. Uh it also allows for you know limiting the waste factor, right? Uh if we're still spraying and praying to get the uh the audience or the customer back into the dealership, shame on us. Right. There's all this this data that they can share with us otherwise. So it's bringing all of that together for a differentiated way to keep retention top of mind. That would be something that they should consider when bringing us in.

Jim Fitzpatrick 9:57

No question. And uh with the average length of a vehicle now almost approaching 13 years on the road, um, fixed stops again is front and center to take care of all those older cars. So a number of dealers that I talk to, you know, I've asked the question if a car rolls in, it's got 90,000 miles on it, what are you doing with that vehicle today? They're putting it on the front line. They're getting it ready, goes through recon, and now it's going on the front line. We never did that in the industry before. You would be crazy if you thought you're gonna put a 90,000 vehicle on the front line or even on the lot anywhere. Right. Right. Those cars will go on a wholesale in a minute. That's right. But uh but people are keeping their cars longer. They're they're they're being they're built better than ever. The technology in them from even four or five years ago is still really great technology.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Huge component. I mean, you guys know your team's coming off CES and they're all high off all the technology. CES has become, in many ways, an auto show.

Jim Fitzpatrick 10:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

You know, so kudos to you for having your team there because they're launching so many innovative technologies that are inside the car.

Jim Fitzpatrick 10:54

No question.

Aging Fleet, Used Cars, And CES Tech

SPEAKER_01 10:55

You know, it's crazy. It's we're driving around computers.

Jim Fitzpatrick 10:57

You know, autonomous vehicles. We're we're gonna be doing a lot about or talking a lot about that in in 2026 because it is coming back, you know, that whole talk about autonomous vehicles coming back in a very, very big way.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

I I've got a buddy of mine, uh, a big tech guy here in Atlanta, he just shared with me that he got an update from his Tesla. He drives a Tesla, sorry dealers, uh, and uh and ninety-six percent of his movement around Atlanta, 96% was autonomous. Wow. He was sitting there making sure he could touch the steering wheel as many times as he needed to. Uh but really emailing and and talking to people and working throughout 96% of his time. Wow. Cars totally driving itself. Right.

Jim Fitzpatrick 11:37

Well, you know, here in Atlanta, we I was just down, we as we're as many people know, we're just outside of Waymo's are everywhere. They're on every corner. They're it's just everywhere. I went to the theater down there, my uh uh Bridget and I, and it was just incredible how many Waymo's were just running all over the city.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Now have you ridden in one yet?

Jim Fitzpatrick 11:54

I have not ridden in it yet.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Got to do that. It's fun. It's a quite unique experience. You gotta do that. And it you you kind of it's crazy to me how quickly you get over the fact that no one's in the front seat. Really? Yeah. I mean it's it's shocking at first, right? But then as you get down the road and you see it making decisions in real time, you can't help yourself just like you do in an Uber. You're like, uh, might as well just get to work, you know, knock out some.

Jim Fitzpatrick 12:14

What else are you

2026 Focus: Affordability And After-Sales

Jim Fitzpatrick 12:15

gonna do? Right?

SPEAKER_01 12:15

You're like, I I feel comfortable here. It's it it it's a it's a unique environment, but it's it's here to stay.

Jim Fitzpatrick 12:21

It's kind of like being on board a jetliner and you're 40,000 feet up and it's on autopilot. Yeah. I mean, it's that's what's flying the plane, right? That's right. Same thing. That's exactly right. It's crazy. So the the future uh is gonna be fun in this business. That's for sure. Let's talk about the future. Let's talk about 2026. What are you now telling your dealer partners around the country and now in Canada to really focus on and hone in on for 2026?

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Yeah, look, affordability is still a thing that's really important in the in the eyes of the consumer, right? There's no doubt about it. And so the emphasis of used cars for a lower monthly payment got to be there, right? And making sure that we're turning our used cars, buying the right used vehicles, making sure that that we're even getting an opportunity to bring in used vehicles, which again taps into service, right? We know we can get a ton of opportunities of bringing in early model vehicles just out of the service drive, right? And sort of then you also have the retention component because you got to get that person in a new car. And so that connection is is huge. And then the fixed ops piece is huge, right? And so for us, it's like let us help you immediately make sure your fixed ops uh business or after sales business is a lot of the publics are migrating more to an after sales um nameplate on this topic, but um after sales, fixed stops, it's gotta be fine-tuned, right? We gotta make sure we're moving uh or or or keeping rather everybody in fixed stops that we sell a car to, whether it's new or used. The thing I always bring up is if you're just using a retention program that's provided by the OEM, chances are that program is really only focused on the brands that they sell or want you to sell. So, what about if you're a one-to-one dealer, the other brands, the off-brands that you sold? Well, who's reaching out to if you're a Toyota dealer, who's reaching out to the guy you sold a Kia to to bring back his service business? Knowing if we do that, we're seven times more likely to sell them a Toyota? Like it is a no-brainer. And so we are when we come to the table, we look at the total dealers' needs to in improve

Biggest Gap: Lead Response And Handoffs

SPEAKER_01 14:15

uh service. Right. And by the way, not just warranty pay, but customer pay. We know they make a lot of times more money, uh more profitability in that area of of the segment of the business. And it's something they can really get their hands around. So customer pay ROs, like there are a lot of focal points that we bring to the table, starting with fixed, blending into used, and then of course we've got to make sure that we understand new and understand how to connect with you know uh the OEM and make sure that we've got a a strategy that's gonna help them in market share. Yeah. We know if we stay fine-tuned there, we're gonna help any dealer group win.

Jim Fitzpatrick 14:45

Yeah. Well, if you had to pick one thing that you think is the greatest opportunity, or maybe where the dealers are missing it, not all the dealers, but but maybe you know the ones that you've observed and worked with uh over the years, where where do you think where do you think that is? What's the greatest opportunity or the number or the biggest area that the thing you think they're missing?

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Yeah, it's it well you know this is an area we don't help as much with, but the the the um lead to response time is very, very important. Okay, right. So we can do only so much as marketers to get the right buyer to connect with the dealership, raise their hand and say, I'm interested in something you have on your lot, or I'm interested to bring my car in for service. Making sure that the connectivity to getting that appointment scheduled, that appointment, you know, delivered, where they actually come in to either test drive or have a conversation about you know their their next purchase or they actually get into service, there's still so much opportunity there in all of the areas that we analyze.

Jim Fitzpatrick 15:50

I could see that. The reason I say I can say that is because um shopping for a car for um uh my youngest daughter, your sister, and and it was astounding as to how many dealers uh took too long to answer the phone. I'm talking two, three minutes is not gonna work. You know, I'm hanging up, I'm gone, I'm going to the next one. How many waited to get back to me, and if they got back to me online, then it was with a standard canned answer. How many said no, I can't give you the best price over the phone, I can't give you the trade allowance, you gotta come in, forget it. Yep. Um how many people did not respond, you know, or call me back in a timely fashion. Sure. Um it really is that those issues are alive and well, and why I I hear what you're saying, your company can, you know, lead the horse to water, but it's really up to the dealership to make them drink it, right? Or other vendor partners that they're working with, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:41

So AI certainly can bring speed to the to this equation, right? And I think it's important that it does bring speed to this equation. Yeah. So we've got partners that we work with for other dealer groups where collectively we're working on the dealer's behalf, and we're absolutely bringing a one plus one equals three or more scenario, where we're bringing our tech together. We work in a transparent environment off the same data set, and the goal is that we are operating with fluency and that we have speed to market and communication, speed to communication.

Fewer Vendors, More Partners

SPEAKER_01 17:10

And um, that's really, really important.

Jim Fitzpatrick 17:12

But it's really important. It's the human element that's kind of jamming this process up, right? Well, there's great technologies out there, and obviously Force has it as well, and there's great systems, and everybody's rowing in the same direction. But when you got that human element in there that that says, okay, I'm gonna give you a call back or I'm gonna work the deal over the phone and or I'm gonna give you the best price, but I'm not gonna give you the best price, and I'm not gonna be up front with you, and I'm gonna still, you know, run you kind of through the the the gauntlet there, and uh that that's still a problem. That's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

And so it's it's the it's the all the handoffs. Yeah. Right? Like look I fo I would you know what that might be a good thing to answer your question. Focus on where the handoff moments are, right? So when the marketing hands it off to, let's say, a BDC center, what does that look like? When the BDC center hands it off to right, or when or the AI engine. When the AI engine then hands it off to a live person in the BDC, what does that handoff look like? When the BDC hands it off to a salesperson, what does that look like? That's right. Every single one of those moments, if it's not seamless, the customer's going, what's going on here? That's right. Come on, guys. That's right. I can buy a lot of things today in my house super easy, but yet a car still feels disjointed. And by the way, the best out there are making sure these handoffs are pretty dang seamless. Yeah. You know, think about it like a relay race in track and field. That's right. The one that wins is that handoff is so important. That's right.

Jim Fitzpatrick 18:28

And I would also say for dealers, and it's good, it's 20 early 2026. Um, you've heard me say this before probably a great number of times on CBT News, and that is shop your dealerships. And I'm not talking about from your cell phone, because everybody in the dealership knows your cell phone already. They all know boss is calling, they probably even know your voice, so don't use that. But if you can sit in the room with a buddy of yours that calls up where they don't know the cell number, and the individual, your buddy, shops for a car and you see how your dealerships are handling that, okay?

Outlook For 2026 And SAR Predictions

Jim Fitzpatrick 19:00

I would tell you it's going to be a huge wake-up call. Because you're assuming it's being done right. The only problem you may have is maybe not getting enough cars or maybe not getting enough leads or whatever the case might be. When in reality, it might be your team that's completely dropping the ball, okay? And the only way for you to understand that, because I've never had a sales manager walk into my office as your general manager and go, boss, guess what? We are dropping 10% of the of the balls when those, you know, when when those opportunities come in. Never. You know what I heard? I heard, well, it's the marketing company, well, it's the quality of leads, well, it's that, well, it's this, well, it was rainy outside, well, it was you guys know what I'm talking about. But if you just shop, take the time to shop your own stores online, uh by phone, you know. Obviously, you can't walk in by you know in person, but uh but you can do a lot online, and you can do a lot with a phone call to find out how those calls are being treated and how those digital, those virtual customers are being treated. And if you look At that and say, well, I've shopped the store, you know, five times. And uh, you know, one out of four, man, they drop the ball. That's 20%. Okay. Um, do you can you afford 20% in 2026 to have you know the to have this mishap happen at the showroom level or the BDC level? The answer is no, you can't, because those customers are moving on. I wait about three minutes, and if I don't get what I want, I'm going to the next retailer. You do it, I do it, and your customers do it. So I d don't you do you agree with me, John?

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Yeah, I do. And I I think look, the dealers are that we work with, you know, one one thing that's the other kind of focal point is there's there's some dealer groups working with a lot of vendors. Right. And those vendors are all siloed and disjointed. And they all just come back and answer, and they're gonna have their own narrative, and their own narrative is always going to be to benefit them. Of course. Typically. But when but when you when you when you don't look at it as a bunch of vendors and you say, well, let me eliminate as many as I can, and let me find partners.

Jim Fitzpatrick 20:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

And let me bring the partners together, and let's all collectively call out our strengths and weaknesses. Right. Let's all collectively look at the data and let the data dictate where we're driving, the business, that is. And let's together figure this out. You see a ch you see something magical happen. Yeah. Which is the dealer can actually step back and the the partners that by the way were once vendors, but they've just been now treated differently, brought together, full transparency. Hey, you guys all need to make sure these store benefits. You see a huge uptick from that. And so what what I'm seeing on some of the leading dealer groups is understanding this concept. By the way, this change is not easy, right? Right? Um, but when it happens, you do see the strengths of what every player brings to the table in more of a partnership scenario, and you do see the benefit of sort of the flywheel effect of what that can bring to the table. And so I would just urge dealer groups to to really look at the vendors that they're that that they're working with, how can we create partnerships

Closing And Upcoming JD Power Forum

SPEAKER_01 22:00

out of those vendors? And how how can we create a scenario where less is more? Uh because when there's just too many people focused on too many different things in a dealership, it just causes chaos. It does. It just does. It does, right? And I look, we are one of them, right? I stand by making this statement, I stand to lose in this scenario. But if we're not bringing the value, we probably should lose anyways. Right. Right? And so I'm okay with that challenge. Right. But I I I'm seeing time and time again when when we shrink the world, when we find partners, and when we really lean in and read off the same sheet of music together with the dealer. We're an extension of their money.

Jim Fitzpatrick 22:34

Well, and they and and they have got a vested interest in every car that gets rolled or every car that doesn't get rolled.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Now we're in it together and we're calling out, oh, that's we can optimize over there. Not right or wrong. How do we optimize? How do we look to elevate? How do we get it? That's correct. Yeah. That's correct.

Jim Fitzpatrick 22:49

Yeah, no question. Uh 2026, from your perspective, good year ahead?

SPEAKER_01 22:54

I think it's gonna be a good year. Good. Yeah. What what I can't see anything that tells me differently. I think it'll be, you know, a used car focused year uh from a profitability standpoint. I think new will still be there. Yes. I think we're gonna have to we as always we and I think the folks that win really have focused on retention uh in after sales and committed to it, stuck with it throughout the entire year. Little improvements all along the way can make a big impact. Um and I I think uh I think it could be a great year.

Jim Fitzpatrick 23:22

Your close friend, Senator Bernie Moreno, I know that you guys have been friends for many years. Um a year ago uh at JD Power, he said that uh that the tariffs are gonna be a blip on the radar, and we're not even gonna be talking about these. And he didn't say that a year. Do you do you think, and by the way, I had him on recently, and he said you heard it here first. My prediction is 17 million SAR for 2026. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Are those two things uh I think so, and I'm I'm happy to also announce that he and I will be back on stage to keynote the uh New York International Auto Show JD Power Auto Forum. That's great. Uh so that'll be uh March 31st, I believe, in New York City. Good. And uh it'll be great because we did that same event last year, one year one year ago. And I think we can do a little bit of uh fact checking.

Jim Fitzpatrick 24:05

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Uh what what what he said would happen versus what happened and uh and and see what his predictions are for the future. But look, Bernie's done a great job uh being kind of the carzar for the United States and really having a voice of the dealer, but also a voice of the manufacturer and also a voice of the customer, which is a very unique thing to bring to the table in a massive category of automotive. Yeah. Uh we've needed it for a long time.

Jim Fitzpatrick 24:38

Absolutely. So that's great. That's great. John Fitzpatrick, president and uh CEO of Force Marketing, a company that you know well, and uh check them out online. But thank you so much for coming in. It's always great spending time with you. This is the only chance I get.