Brain fog, irritability, and burnout – What’s really going in your 40s and what you can do about it

Feeling more tired, irritable, or overwhelmed than usual – but not sure why?

In this raw and relatable conversation, Sam Lindsay-German is joined again by Vera Wellness naturopath, Elysia Humphries, to unpack the real (and often hidden) symptoms of perimenopause and menopause – from brain fog and burnout to joint pain, weight gain, and loss of identity.

Together, they explore:

🌿 What perimenopause really looks like – and why it’s not just about hot flushes

🌿 The hidden symptoms that show up before your period disappears – from frozen shoulder to burnout

🌿 Why your hormones are impacting your joints, brain, energy, and even your tolerance for noise

🌿 How to support your cognitive health, mood, and resilience (even if you’ve got small kids and zero time to yourself)

🌿 The real story behind midlife weight gain – and why that “menopause belly” might actually be helping you

🌿 Natural medicine vs HRT – and why you don’t need to choose sides

Whether you’re in your 40s and feeling off, deep in the transition, or supporting someone else, this episode will help you feel seen, supported, and better equipped for what’s ahead.

Recommended resources from this episode:

• 📖 Wise Power by Alexandra Pope and Sjanie Hugo Wurlitzer

______________________

For more information about us, visit VeraWellness.com.au. 

We’d love to continue the conversation with you on Instagram @verawellness.com.au

​​To stay in the loop with every new episode of Women of the Well and gain first access to special resources and events – join our Podcast VIP Club here.

______________________

DISCLAIMER:

This podcast is for information and educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Sam: so welcome to another exciting week of, women of the well. today I'm back in my lovely yoga studio and I'm back with Elysia Humphries, who's our resident naturopath here at Vera. Hello, 

[00:01:15] Elysia: Hello, 

[00:01:16] Sam: today we're, excited because we're gonna talk about a subject that's close to both of our hearts and that is the subject of menopause even though I hate that term, we can discuss that at some point. Don't really like the term because I think that it's sort of become just used, to be the answer to everything and the problem of everything as well.

But I just feel like this is a really good time to sit with you and talk about some of the. The things that maybe don't get discussed in many places, and talk from lived experiences that we both have and really tap into your amazing expertise, uh, with herbs and natural medicine. 

[00:01:55] Elysia: Yeah, absolutely. It's a big topic. Like initially, I think when I trained as a [00:02:00] naturopath, 25 years ago, I kind of thought menopause was just when women got, you know, the hot, the hot flushes or the dry vagina and, and, and then mostly was helping women with yeah, sleep and hot flushes. But now we have all this new knowledge about perimenopause and, perimenopause is the time before menopause from our mostly early to mid forties.

Some women, their late thirties, if they're going into it early. And I think that's when I see most of the problems actually, often the hot flushes and the sleep and things are fairly easy to fix as a naturopath. It's more the myriad of symptoms of, in your forties that come along with perimenopause that I seem to be, I mean, I'm seeing, and a lot of people that are affected by it, they're seeking my help.

I'm not seeing the perimenopause unicorns. But, um, yeah, I think that's what mostly what people are struggling with. And now I'm 47. I'm super into perimenopause and I, I have symptoms and I'm happy to talk about them quite candidly and share what's worked for me as well. So my sisters in Perry, I think it's a thing – I'm going through it too here. 

[00:03:04] Sam: How old's your sister? 

[00:03:06] Elysia: No, I mean my sisters in as, I mean my sisters like my women. Sorry. I do have a sister. Sorry. No, I mean my colloquial sisters, I actually do have a sister who's three years younger than me as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's definitely got a few things going on too. But I'm probably the one with most of the hormonal problems in the family, which is why I probably am a hormonal naturopath, I think it's a subject close to my heart.

[00:03:32] Sam: I love that so much. Yeah, so actually that's perfect really because the way I wanted to start was just to ask you, if you could share what it is that most women are coming to you and saying, what, what are the symptoms that are being presented? and maybe as well, what are the ages of these women that are coming? 

[00:03:51] Elysia: Sure. I mean, probably mostly early to mid and late forties. The research shows earlier, like from late thirties, but that's. [00:04:00] More rare. yeah, definitely sort of early to mid forties and, um, a lot of the time it's like everyone and everything is annoying. There's a lot of irritation. Before I really understood what it was, many, many years ago, when I first graduated, I just noticed a lot of women in their forties saying that they wanted to kill their husbands.

Like they, it was a literally, they would say that and it was, everyone was annoying. And, and, and, and a lot of times now people just say, I don't like my short fuse. Like I'm, really irritable. I, I'm not showing the best side of myself. I'm annoyed at my kids, I'm annoyed at work, I'm annoyed with my partner.

So certainly I see a lot of mood issues. And that can be 'cause period issues can be very, very common. Like women's cycles can become less regular. So say someone always had a really regular 28 or 30 day cycle, you can get. Periods a lot more frequently or your periods can be a lot heavier or a lot longer.

Mine are like sometimes every 21 to 23 days where they used to be more like 26 to 28. So during our interviews when we say what day of our cycle, we are on the same day last time, but today we will not be because my cycle is irregular and yours is irregular. Right. So I find that personally quite annoying.

But, the period issues might not be there. Some women might be very regular, so they've been to the doctor and been told, no, you're not in perimenopause. But their moods are just out of control and it's very unusual for them, especially maybe in the premenstrual phase. So I just want to sort of acknowledge that that is a big deal for a lot of women, can just be mood issues alone that are out of character.

I have seen a lot of clients lately that, are inter weights or training or physi, you know, exercise, getting fit or are fit. They're injuring themselves a lot more, when our estrogen drops and our hormones change, that nourishes our joints and tendons and helps our recovery. So when our hormones are [00:06:00] different, some of these women are just like off due to injury or feeling well.

They just say, oh, I just feel like I'm 85. You know, they're really tight and sore and that's very much hormonal. Things like frozen shoulder in women in their forties or

[00:06:17] Sam: I, I just, yeah. Frozen shoulder. I'm actually fascinated by frozen shoulder. That is one of the key things that I see and I get quite a few people who come to the gym and they've had that, or they're going through that, and it just is the most debilitating thing. And there seems to be no answers. 

[00:06:37] Elysia: Is it all women in their forties? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's a low estrogen sign. It's a dead ringer because I remember, I've learned this physi physically. 'cause when I had my last, no, both of my babies with breastfeeding, that when you're breastfeeding, that's a very similar hormonal state too. A menopausal state.

Hormones are quite low, the estrogen's low. And I remember a lot of the women in my mother's group, even the ones, the young mummies that were in their twenties were all having like. Tendonitis or Devins or tennis elbow from holding their babies and things. And even the young ones, and I was the old mummy, we're all complaining about our joints and our RSI and all these problems.

And it was the ones that were breastfeeding that were having the issues. And it, that's again, low hormones. So we're not getting that, like, that yogic nourishment of our tendons and they're not juicy. 

And you know, the estrogen really nourishes everything. So I remember having a lot of like, I got really sore feet plantar fasciitis when I was breastfeeding.

And now in perimenopause I have had plantar fasciitis, super sore feet. Again, the interesting thing is when I tried some HRT, my plantar fasciitis went away within a week, like my sore feet gone. Right. and there's other natural, you know, herbs and other things for that as well. If you don't wanna do HRT or [00:08:00] it's not, you know, not a candidate. so that just showed me the power of estrogen on, the joints. 

[00:08:08] Sam: yeah. ' my naivety was partly that I thought that was to do with women breastfeeding or just before our period. there's that relaxant in the body, which kind of actually helps to, you know, I thought that's why we did that. But I hadn't really occurred to me that in menopause and also that breastfeeding, that you, you have that low hormones, because I see that too in the, in the young moms that come to the gym.I see that as well. They will have. issues, and I've just thought it's because they're breastfeeding and they've got that relaxant, but I didn't realize that Their hormones, 

[00:08:41] Elysia: yeah, you can get issues in your thumb joints, issues in the elbow joints, and that's from carrying where you're carrying your baby in mostly. And in, um, frozen shoulder and women in their forties is absolutely a huge incident. And, you know, if you're trying to exercise and, you know, so many people just can't exercise and then they feel awful about themselves.

So getting your hormones balanced so that you don't get injured. And because, we'll talk about this more later, but, training and strength and getting, building muscle and bone health is so important in this, at this time, sort of putting it in the bank for post menopause. What else do I see? I mean, I see other things like, women, like having libido changes.

insomnia is a huge one. women in their forties, generally, there's been big sleep studies done around the world. Don't have great sleep anyway. 'cause the amount, like they might have. Young children or at the peaks of their career or they've got a lot of worries, but also the hormonal changes. Low progesterone is very common in perimenopause and progesterone is like natural sleep hormones for the brain.

So you can get less quality sleep or insomnia, which is super annoying 'cause you need a really good sleep to be able to feel rested and fabulous and do all the things you need to do, like exercise and eat well. Otherwise you just can't be bothered when you're tired. [00:10:00] So, you know, getting sleep, I mean, I think I like to practice top down medicine.

So like sleep is one of those top things. If you sort sleep out, then a lot of the things downstream will sort themselves out. Everything's easier. Where if you're not sleeping well, everything's a struggle. you know, there can be urogenital issues like different, um, changes as the vagina, can get a little bit drier when there's less estrogen.

So. Might get flare ups of urinary tract infections or BV or different in, um, infections or, or intercourse can be more painful. There's so many things to do to, uh, sort of approach that so that women don't have to suffer as well. And something interesting is, um, the incidents of like realizing people are neurodivergent in their forties, so A DHD diagnosis or autism diagnosis in women, women really are flying under the radar for autism and A DHD anyway 'cause they mask well and are more social beings and are brought up to fit in with, um, socially very well.

Whereas when you don't have those stabilizing hormones being as regular as they were and as high as they were in your twenties and thirties, when they all of a sudden take a dive. All of that stuff that covered up your autism or your A DHD is unmasked and it's like hello. All of those sort of accommodations you had to cope with A DHD is are gone and your cognition and stress coping and executive functions might be different without the influence of estrogen and progesterone on the brain.

So the diagnosis of women with like A DHD is highest in their forties too, because none of those things that helped you get through and cope are really there anymore. They're changing, they're up and down. So that's huge. I see so many women, I'm like, Hey, have you got any neurodiversity in the family?

Have you thought this might be you? Maybe you've got a DHD. And then they go and get a diagnosis [00:12:00] and might take medication and they're like, oh, all of a sudden my brain is quiet, you know, on stimulant medications, and they realize that. Yeah, they've struggled with this most of their life, but it has particularly gotten worse in, in their forties, so that's something I'm really passionate about supporting too.

[00:12:18] Sam: yeah. I really want to explore that. Just, I, I feel like what you said there is really important to note for me, one of the biggest things about understanding menopause is that yes, these hormones I've particularly, I'm talking about estrogen that has effectively kept us good, 

[00:12:35] Elysia: Hmm, 

[00:12:36] Sam: um, being good girls and, um, doing things well.

And like you say, yeah, I really love the way you explain that, that we, Yeah.

we're just accommodating, aren't we. and when that starts to wear out, which, let's be honest, it starts to wear out in our forties. That's why all these aspects of us starts to appear that other people are going to suddenly think, wow.

Well, first of all, we think, why am I not able to be the good girl anymore? And other people in the lives are asking, who is she? I don't even know who she is. 

[00:13:10] Elysia: Mm. And I think there's a dichotomy to that. I really feel that too. There's, you know, there's the social conditioning of just shutting up and being good. And, I mean, for the human race, that's a good thing that women have high, have estrogen. 'cause it makes us, as, you know, communicate in groups in the tribe.

So that we're all happy with all the other women and we raise our children beautifully together and we're all connected. And then when estrogen starts to drop we can sometimes be just more erratically emotional, but other times it's actually just, you're not gonna put up with as much crap as you did before and it's completely warranted and you should be angry or you should be annoyed and you should speak up.

So I love to see, as you know as well, we do it Vera, these rituals of menopause transition being just coming into your true voice and not hiding who you are. [00:14:00] And there's this wonderful quote, I think by, the feminist glorious Steinem. And she was like, that whole do unto others as you want to be done to yourself?

She's like, that's a great quote. for men that kind of works for men, but for women probably need to reverse it. We need to learn to treat ourselves as well as we treat other people. And I think that's really a huge message for perimenopause too, is to look after yourself.

[00:14:28] Sam: It's so true. And I, my favorite, menopause book that I recommend to everyone is called Wise Power and it's by Alexandra Pope and Sjanie Wurlitzer. And it's really good. And one of the things that I, my biggest takeaway, the point where I actually had to put the book down and probably had a quite a deep sob to myself was that this is the stage we realized where we abandoned ourselves. and I feel like that's, it's like we suddenly go, yeah, I just don't know why I, I did some of those things in my life that I felt like I should, and, you know, I, I wanted them. I, I wanted the home. I wanted the husband, I wanted the children. But I also, somewhere left and abandoned me. I. And I feel like that it's that combination of all of that coming together as, you know, with this decline of estrogen so that the veil starts to come down, which is why, the resentment start to rise.

We dunno who we are. And I feel when I say that, just even thinking about it and feeling what I feel in my body as I say that, even now as I've gone through quite a lot of that, I mean, that's enough to induce brain fog, you know, because my brain goes, yeah, that's a lot. And so, we are trying, like you said, it's the busiest point in our lives for 

most of us. a lot of women now, and we'll talk about this in a moment, have young children, or we are reaching a sort of peak point in our careers whilst raising children and keeping a home and potentially looking after elderly parents. And we are doing all [00:16:00] of that whilst trying to figure out. Who am I without estrogen? 

[00:16:06] Elysia: Absolutely. Yeah. Very different without estrogen and progesterone. yeah, it's like a great unveiling and I must say the women that I encourage to then find themselves or, it doesn't have to be your greatest esoteric soul purpose, but it can just be like actually prioriti doing exercise, eating well, just having some time off to do things that you enjoy that don't have to be earth shattering or earth changing.

Just some women just cannot find that time. They're pulled in so many directions and the ones that do find that time and start something for them or exercise or get more sleep or go and do a yoga class or join a choir or just whatever, could be once a week, they have a better time of it. Like they just seem to, the resentment and the anger dials down quite a lot if they actually realize to prioritize themselves because that voice inside you gets pretty angry if she's ignored for too long.

So I do, I do spend a lot of time trying to encourage people to just take a little bit more time out for themselves if they're very, if they're stretched very thin, and sometimes that's not possible, depending on your circumstances, but if it is, it makes a big, big difference. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:18] Sam: So, the first thing I was really wanting to is to coming to where we are really now, and that is about talking about this cognitive health, and, brain fog 

because like you were saying, with the increase in diagnosis of A DHD and other NeuroD divergencies, we are not even sure. it's what I said to you. I can't figure out whether I have brain fog. 

[00:17:41] Elysia: Right. 

[00:17:43] Sam: What did you say to. 

[00:17:44] Elysia: I said to you, if you can't figure out if you've got brain fog, you probably do have brain fog. It's just to be blunt.

[00:17:51] Sam: Yeah. And I, one of my big things is I was saying before I used to get my period and I'd teach yoga in the city and do these big classes. I would forget [00:18:00] just before my period, I would always forget which my left and right was. And I'd always like struggle to tell which eat, which hands. And now it's like all the time.

So now it's not that I can say, oh, it's about to me in my period, I'm so sorry. It's like, oh, it's just, I'm, Yeah, nearly 51 and I dunno which my left and right. 

[00:18:18] Elysia: totally. 

[00:18:19] Sam: Um, but, and, and I'm, I'm actually don't mean to belittle it because, on top of that it really is that it sometimes feels completely overwhelming when you just can't remember something or you are doing something and you forget or there's just a complete loss of actual cognitive function.I find it, worrying, 

[00:18:39] Elysia: Yeah, and I think it I think it's a probably worse for a lot of women as they go through perimenopause, the time before menopause because you don't see all of the women that are postmenopausal just constantly worrying about this stuff. Some of them do, but I think, I think you have a reset of your brain and there's a new normal.

I think it's worse when things are still up and down and all over the place, which is what your hormones are doing in perimenopause. It's like the second puberty and after that things do settle down. But yeah, cognition and brain fog is a big thing. of course there's herbs of that, which I will talk about, but I think it's really about realizing that women have always been excellent at multitasking and what helps brain pathways and multitasking is good hormone levels.

So when that does drop, that will be harder. Is just to try and unload your plate. Take stuff off your plate, you know, if possible, and try and have times in your day. Just I'm talking about, mindset and business and organization stuff where you don't have your emails pinging and your watch pinging and your phone pinging and just like, okay, I answer my emails twice a day at these times and then I shut them down.

That will resolve the overwhelm. You know, have I done anything to exercise or to have a quick 15 minute meditation or breathing to actually [00:20:00] calm my nervous system, you know, so that I am in a more relaxed, calm state. Things that help brain fogger. Also your food and nutrition. Like, oh, a lot of these women are trying fasting and it really doesn't work for a lot of women. 

Might work for weight loss, but it certainly doesn't work for brain fog for a lot of women. Keeping your blood sugar stable. So having a really great breakfast by 9:00 AM that's got some protein, so some eggs or some yogurt. you know, and some slow gi carbs, like super duper brown granny bread with some avocado on it or something.

Not just a piece of Vegemite on white bread and running out the door or a coffee, keeping your, your blood sugar stable really helps. Concentration big time. And looking at, the amount of protein that you eat, you need a lot more protein and perimenopause to maintain focus and brain and, mood, you know, eating more protein rich foods.

And there are herbs, like there's a great herb. It's, it's hilarious. I've been using it for 24 years, but it's all very trendy now on Instagram, apparently Ashwaganda or Withania, which is an Vedic herb, 

[00:21:03] Sam: they're different though, aren't they? And 

[00:21:05] Elysia: same. Withania and Ashwagandha are the Yeah, yeah, 

[00:21:08] Sam: I did not. Gosh, look at that. Whoa. Okay, great talk. Talk 

[00:21:11] Elysia: yeah, 

[00:21:12] Sam: They're the same. 

[00:21:13] Elysia: yeah, They're the same. They're the same thing. Withania, Sora is the Latin name and Ashwagandha is the Indian name for the herb. And there's been like, there's been randomized double blind controlled trials on it in menopause where it did things like reduced hot flushes, it boosted estrogen, it reduced like the bad hormones that we don't want high.

It helped with like urogenital symptoms. It helped with energy, it helped with cognition, it helps with, stamina. Yeah. So there's a lot of herbs like that. If anyone has more like, stress-based brain fog, 'cause they're really under the pump, I. St. John's Ward is one of my absolute favorites. You've gotta be careful with that one if you're [00:22:00] on certain medications though, because it can affect certain meds.

But, um, St. John's Ward is a beautiful nervous system, her, which really reduces overwhelm and what's called perceived stress. So like for me, I'm the kind of person that might have a hell of a lot on and I can achieve a lot. I'm quite, you know, high level can bust out stuff, but I'm always feeling under the pump.

I'm like, ah, about it all. Whereas other people are like, eh, a bit more chill. So St. John's what really helps me just feel like I can handle everything and I'm less overwhelmed. And it's also been studied for anxiety and depression. It's very effective. 

[00:22:37] Sam: St. John's Ward is what I took when I was going through small children, I'd been previously on antidepressants and I didn't wanna go back on them, and so I did my own research and decided this is the way to go.

And I remember that I had a friend who, when I would. Speak to her and like be going into my sort of like pressure of everything. She was like, have you stopped taking the St. John's ward? You're like, 

[00:23:01] Elysia: I have.

[00:23:03] Sam: yes, actually. And so it might be a good idea just to go back to that for a bit. And we used to just sort, sort of remind each other, um, periodically to just go.But my question on that is, so you wouldn't take Ashwagandha and St. John's Ward, 

[00:23:17] Elysia: Oh no. You can take them together. Yeah. I mean, as a herbalist, I mix up blends and put four or five herbs in together. Absolutely. You can take those together, make lovely cognition and adrenal blends with lots of. Herbs for nervous system stress, overwhelm, brain fog. Absolutely. There's another herb. just had a look.

Lot of research on it lately. It's a spice actually saffron the beautiful yellow spice and for certain types of A DHD that was shown to be comparable with, with Ritalin for, for focus and, and attention, which is amazing. Saffron's, a herb you can take alongside a lot of antidepressant meds, which you can't take St.

John's wood alongside those meds. So it's really good for premenstrual mood exacerbations [00:24:00] or focus and cognition or anxiety and depression that's not being covered by completely sorted out. If someone's on an antidepressant or they wanna come off it or something. Saffron has reams and reams of research on it. It's really solid, but you've gotta be on the right dose. 

[00:24:18] Sam: so you'd work that out according to what a person needed. 

[00:24:21] Elysia: Yeah. It depends on really what their symptoms are and things, but what I'm trying to say is there are a lot of really great herbal medicines that are really, really well researched for, cognition, stress menopausal symptoms that can help get through this time. Because for me, whatever makes it easier is a good thing.

It doesn't matter if it's a medication or a herb for me, I'm on all of the things to get me through. I don't mind if it's natural or, or medical. I think just let's just choose what we need, what works, you know? 

[00:24:53] Sam: yeah, so great. That's some really good advice on what we can do to sort of support ourselves. I think actually, that advice you gave about taking stuff off our plate and the realization that another aha moment there, which I just want to recap on that.

Basically what you're saying is with the decline of estrogen, we actually, stop being as able to multitask. 

[00:25:17] Elysia: I 

[00:25:17] Sam: I actually just think, Yeah,

because we as women kind of pride ourselves on being able to do everything, but we also know we can't actually do everything. And it's just that we've been struggling and coping and to be given sort of permission to say, this isn't gonna be your skillset really moving forward, so you're gonna have to find some better, coping strategies I think is really 

[00:25:39] Elysia: Yeah. And to stop doing it all yourself, like so many, I mean, myself and so many of my clients, are really in control of everything in their household and there's not a lot of delegation with the mental load. Rather than saying, we'll get everyone to do their jobs.

Well, what does that mean? Like for us, we've got a shared phone diary, me and my husband, and we decided, okay, [00:26:00] these are your nights that you cook every week. And that doesn't mean I go shopping for you and get it all for you, and then you just come home and cook it. It means you go and do the shopping.

You plan what you're cooking and you sort it out, not sorting any of it out for you and vice versa, so that the mental load is actually not there. Right. And you know, it's in our, we have a shared diary that's, that's taken the mental load off. There's things in it for both of us. you know, if we're gonna want our kids to help, what does that look like?

Put it on the fridge. Everyone ticks it off. These are your jobs. Have you done them? Just accountability and actual strategies, rather than just saying, I wish you'd unpacked the dishwasher. Sometimes it's never gonna happen. It's like, well, these are your days, or you do it every day. And actually practically figuring out how that's gonna happen and what it's gonna look like to take that, mental load off.

Because yeah, I mean, we're not as great at multitasking, um, once our hormones decline, but our, world is just so full of an overload of notifications and expectations. So just to realize that you're not really probably supposed to work all of your life at that crazy higher level, I don't think.

Our grandparents certainly weren't, 

you 

[00:27:12] Sam: Well, no, because I'll be honest with you if I think about what I presumed of a 50-year-old when I was in my twenties, it's a hell of a lot different of what I think of myself. Now 

that I'm 50, often think about that when I was young, people retired at 55. 

[00:27:27] Elysia: hmm, 

[00:27:27] Sam: I only 51 this year, and I'm like, I don't know.

It doesn't even occur to me when my husband and I talk about it. We think about 65 or, you know, it's like a whole, 10 years 

[00:27:39] Elysia: hmm. Well, we're living a lot longer and we have better healthcare and like, which is one of the reasons also why we need to just do things to like keep our bones strong. 'cause we used to like hit menopause, and die not very long after many hundreds of years ago. Whereas we live into, our women live into their eighties and very commonly now.

And we actually need our bodies and our bones [00:28:00] and our minds to still be top-notch, hopefully. and that's, I guess that's why what we do now puts down the groundwork to having. Awesome. Because I, I mean, look at most women post menopause and they're pretty ha I, most women I know, pretty happy. Most women that are retired are pretty stoked with their lives.

They're not stressing out. They're just like loving life and hanging out with their mates and traveling. I think it's the worst time now. It's the hard, not the worst. Just the hardest. it's 

[00:28:27] Sam: But I, I, just, yeah. and with that, just wanna come to that topic, which we've touched on, but I think it would be good to talk about And I know this isn't in relation to any one thing, but in, in the whole thing about the fact that women have been having children a bit later. So whereas these women we are talking about actually had children younger, potentially, now there's a lot of women around. So you're saying you're 47, how old are your children? 

[00:28:54] Elysia: Well, I had my last baby at 41, so I have a 6-year-old and a 9-year-old. Yeah, nearly 10. So yeah, and I'm 47, so I went from breastfeeding and postpartum fatigue and no sleep, you know, 'cause I breastfed my last child for two year, nearly two year. Two years. Yeah. So 43 or whatever, straight into perimenopause, like the hard out, short cycles, heavy periods, epic mood swings, like, and I don't think that was helped by the fact that I went into it tired and sleep deprived because I was looking after a baby and running a business, you know?

and I see I do a lot of fertility work, so I do see a lot of women having babies older. Because of fertility issues or just 'cause they wanted to. So yeah, I think that makes it a bit trickier you know? But it doesn't have to because I mean, women, you know, like my, husband's grandma, she had 13 children, so she would've had babies well into her thir forties. Sorry. Uh, we are biologically meant to do that. 

[00:29:56] Sam: Yes. I guess we're, we can have children up until when we can't, 

[00:29:59] Elysia: that's [00:30:00] right. But I think in the back in the day, we wouldn't have had a job either. We would've, which we would've been looking after children, which is a very, very busy job. But we wouldn't have been multitasking as much perhaps. 

[00:30:09] Sam: So we are not gonna have been asking, Yeah, we wouldn't have been raising children, having a job, running the home And doing everything else. And potentially, maybe there'd have been family members living nearby. We'd have had family members living next door or living 

[00:30:26] Elysia: That's right. More of a village. Yeah, it's a bit harder, I feel. being in perimenopause and having young children, I'm not gonna lie, it's hard, there's many great things, like I am more financially secure.

Uh, I was able to take more time off and spend more time with my children when they were younger, which was really important to me because I had more money and was more financially secure. But, I'm tired. I get overwhelmed sometimes. I feel like being by myself and I can't, 'cause I have tiny children that need me. Like, it's hard. It's, there's hard parts of it too, 

[00:30:55] Sam: I think it is hard because I think one of the things that we want, I notice for myself in menopause is I actually, I, I want to be alone. 

[00:31:01] Elysia: Yeah. 

[00:31:01] Sam: Um, 

[00:31:02] Elysia: Me too. Me too, Sam.

[00:31:04] Sam: um, and I mean, I have have a lot of children, you know, four of them and three of them still live at home, but they're, they are young adults, which actually still  means that they need me a lot. Yeah, but the point is that it still means there's a lot of people in my house and my husband currently works from home or is at home a lot of the time. In fact, he's just telling me that he might be changing jobs, which might mean that he might be, might be going away, you know, out to work. And I was saying, I know. I said to him, Oh, that's so exciting. Maybe a little bit too excited. so, 

[00:31:38] Elysia: Yes.

[00:31:38] Sam: but yeah. And so what I think about personally now, when I hear you say that, just the way that I feel in these moments of my life currently, I actually just think I know I would struggle with that. Now, I'm sure if I had had my children later, I wouldn't know that I would struggle and I would just do the best I can.

But I can feel in me that even [00:32:00] sometimes when my girls are asking to come and sit with me and talk about TikTok or something and really don't wanna talk about like the latest fashion, I just wanna go, Hey guy, just go away. I am not interested. We all know that, especially with small children, it asks a lot of us to really be, available when they need us and to you know, be present when they need us. And I know that I would, I would have to manage my time to allow myself to have off periods. 

[00:32:28] Elysia: Yeah, and I think that's important too, as part of speaking up and not being the good girl that pleases everyone is to like, I've raised my kids and I spent so much time with them and I'm really glad I have, but I also like if they're too, no, I'm very noise sensitive. And if they're making too much noise, I'll just say, mommy needs a break, or Mommy needs some quiet time.

Like I try and teach them that we all need to just be in touch with what our bodies need. And you know, if I need a break. this is, I'm just gonna chill out and read a book for 15 minutes. And that's what's happening. And they're there old enough now to understand that. And then they say that to me too.

They're like, sorry, mommy, I just shouted at you half an hour ago. I think I was tired and hungry. Like, they're now really tuned into their bodies. So I think it's, it's all right just to say what you need to your kids. super duper important. Or like if you have a partner, they have times where we each give each other a break and just take the kids out on our own and the other one has a sleep or a break or whatever.

We don't constantly have to do everything together, although that's nice, but if we are tired, we have a break. So just tuning in, tuning into what you need, I think, and, uh, asking for it is so important 

[00:33:39] Sam: Yeah. totally. so I want to move on to another topic, which It's so tricky, and I'm gonna do. a, a podcast with Desi soon. So we're gonna talk about diet, which obviously you can talk to from your point of view as well. But I just wanna talk about, weight gain and menopause, and the menopause belly, which, which [00:34:00] endlessly sold supplements on Instagram.

Well, I'm, anyway, just everyone knows I get hugely targeted by that. I'm not even sure why. Maybe I've clicked on too many things, but I'm always been targeted about how I can lose weight. Particularly, can't stand it when a man is trying to tell me how I can lose weight. Ugh. some young, health coach trying to tell me 

[00:34:20] Elysia: Yeah. 

[00:34:20] Sam: can lose weight 

[00:34:22] Elysia: back to me in 20 years, buddy. And see what, if you've got a dad bond. 

[00:34:26] Sam: Anyway, there we go. Um, there's little things that make me raw. talk to me about this. Um, 'cause you actually, we spoke a bit on it, the other week, and I actually loved how you explained it. It was really good for me to hear. 

[00:34:37] Elysia: Yeah, I mean, so the ovaries are our primary source of estrogen. They make all the estrogen and then as our estrogen declines closer to menopause and eventually post menopause, it gets really super, super, super low. So we don't need to mature eggs to make babies anymore. Although, as we've talked about before, it helps our brain so much.

It's not all about periods and babies, it's really about our muscles and joints and brain and mood as well. basically estrogen makes us really sensitive to insulin. So insulin just helps us burn our sugars and burn the carbs and use our food well and metabolize everything well, and then maintain a, a certain weight.

So a lot of women might have been the same weight most of their lives give or take a few kilos, and then all of a sudden, even if they're quite. Fear to eat quite well. They, gain a, a, a little bit of a belly for the first time in their lives, or they've gained more weight. That is because when you're issued and drops, you become less sensitive to insulin.

So a little bit more insulin resistant. So the cells are, have headphones on and can't quite hear the messages from the insulin as well, because as well as they used to, because, estrogen is lower so we can gain weight due to insulin resistance, or it's actually very, very [00:36:00] biologically normal to have a little bit of weight on your tummy.

Because fat produces estrogen. So when our ovaries have packed up and gone on holidays forever to Fiji and retired, they don't work anymore. And there's another type of estrogen that starts being produced in our fat cells, and that's actually useful as well. So we do get naturally a little bit more weight on, but there's, there's a balance with that.

You know, we really want our overall, waist measurements to be under a certain amount depending on your, your background. And we don't wanna have big obese bellies and too much weight gain, but if you just can't rid of a tiny little bit of weight or another couple of kilos, that's probably there for a good reason to protect you and give you some estrogen.

Um, so don't beat yourself up about that. It's normal. Whereas if you're having huge amounts of weight gain and you really can't control it, there's probably, some insulin resistance or some thyroid issues going on or other things. 

[00:36:57] Sam: when you say insulin resistance, can you just, what do you mean by 

[00:37:01] Elysia: It means that insulin's like the bus that kind of carries the sugars to, then it transports the sugars to get into your cells and your cells burn sugars for energy and um, it's like petrol in your cells.

And when we are resistant to insulin, we are kind of the insulin's getting higher and we are sending out lots and lots and lots of more buses to try and get the sugar into the, the cells. And it's not really delivering them right compared to how we used to. So insulin resistance can just mean our insulin levels go up, which you can get a blood test for, it's called a fasting insulin test.

And you really kind of want that. Under about 10, 10 or under, or optimal about eight. I think the normal range is up to about 18 to 20, depending on labs or sometimes up to 25 at a different lab in Brisbane. But yeah, under 10 is generally pretty good. Insulin control if you test when you're fasting and it just means that you're burning your sugars well and you're not gaining weight due to sugar issues essentially.

Yeah. [00:38:00] And if there is a degree of what's called insulin resistance, say if someone knows they've got insulin properties, they might have a strong family history of, type two diabetes, or they might have known that they've had gestational diabetes in their pregnancy, can be a bit of a, um, flag. or maybe polycystic ovaries can have an insulin, component to it, then those might be some of the reasons why you would want to get that checked.

And, um, like a low GI, high protein diet can really control insulin quite well. And there's, a herb, it's a Indian herb called gym nema, which is fabulous for blood sugar control. And there is my Etol, which is a supplement which really lowers insulin as well. There's a number of things, magnesium, chromium, B vitamins.

There's a bunch of things you can do, so a little degree of that's normal for menopausal, a bit of weight gain. But if it can get out of, control in some women depending on their genetics, and they can gain a lot of weight and really struggle to maintain. weight, which is why, you know, Paula, our amazing physio, who also, does, personal training and things at, at Vero and knew also are amazing weights, coach as well.

You know, she had the whole seminar at our perimenopause day on, on lifting heavy and how we have to change our exercise in perimenopause when we build muscle that's one of the best things, supplements and herbs aside to maintain good blood sugar and good insulin control. To maintain our weights muscle is our most bioactive tissue to just keep our weight in check.

So running and, aerobics and all that are, you know, great for your cardiovascular health, but they, it's really about building muscle, which is really more important and protective in perimenopause. So sometimes women have to change their exercise from, that, that really high aerobic stuff to actually getting a bit stronger.

And it can make a big difference, uh, as well. Yeah. So a lot of things we just sort of need to just shift a little bit and recalibrate and upgrade in ourselves to come through [00:40:00] 

[00:40:00] Sam: Yeah, 

[00:40:00] Elysia: menopause. Yeah. 

[00:40:01] Sam: think I cut you off and you were gonna mention something about the thyroid 

It's so funny, I often think about this. they went through a stage where I never really heard of anyone saying that they had, anything wrong with their thyroid to a point where they, it's kind of come, I don't hear it as much now, but there was a point where everyone seemed to be coming to my yoga class saying, I've just been diagnosed with a overactive or underactive thyroid.

And I remember thinking it might have just been that these women were All of a certain age, but I, I just remember thinking, gosh, why is this happening suddenly? 

[00:40:32] Elysia: Yeah. oh, Australia is pretty iodine deficient nation, so you need a lot of iodine for the thyroid that can be part of it. 

[00:40:39] Sam: why, why is it. 

[00:40:40] Elysia: Iodine helps make thyroid hormone. It's one of the main components in thyroid hormone. So if you're deficient in that, so don't just go out and buy iodine. You shouldn't take it unless you're low 'cause it can actually make your thyroid worse.

but you know, thyroid conditions, it's like the backup to answer to the ovaries, I like to say. And the thyroid's in your neck and it is like buying premium petrol for your car. It just kind of helps everything fire well with your metabolism and your energy levels and weight and brain. And then the other hormones from the ovaries and then the adrenals, which can control our stamina and energy.

They all kind of really help for stamina and energy and weight. it's easy to get your thyroid checked from your GP though. So, you 

know, thyroid can really help with energy and, and, and weight. But if it's all in range, I'm not overly worried about about that. A lot of the time. I think it's more. If your thyroid's fine and tick that box, it's more burnout that I'm seeing.Like it's really just everyone hammering it. 

[00:41:42] Sam: do you define burnout? 

[00:41:43] Elysia: I mean, just doing all of the things all of the time for all of the years. there's official definition of burnout is more just when you're not enjoying, the activities you used to enjoy and all your favorite things, they're just all too hard.

And then your energy [00:42:00] levels are extremely low and there might be cognitive issues and things. So I find if you're coming into perimenopause already burnt out, stretched very thin, exhausted, if you were kind of, you know, high powered job or you can have burnout from kids as well. you know, and just not sleeping well for years or looking after people or being a carer or something.

And you're coming into perimenopause pretty. Tired and run down anyway, often you will have a bit of a worse time of it, because those adrenal glands and those just being that resilience of your nervous system just isn't there. So then a slight change in hormones is just like, ugh, tip of the iceberg.

So, especially neurodiverse people, are more pro to burnout and sensory overload and stuff like that. so I think, adjusting the way you work and looking at your sleep and looking at the mental load and things like that are really, really essential to have a good perimenopause transition.

Because if you're just exhausted coming into it, it's not gonna get any better for a while. It's really important to address those things. I mean, I use a lot of, I guess, herbs for energy and burnout like that herb with Uganda we talked about before. Ola, ginseng mushrooms.

There's things that really help nourish the adrenal glands, which can, after six or eight weeks, really improve energy. They don't improve energy. Like, you don't take them and feel better like having a coffee. They're, they're a slow burn, but then all of a sudden you're like, huh, I feel like I could clean the kitchen tonight, or answer some emails or do something.

Whereas before, I just could not be bothered doing any of that, or I might feel like exercising. 'cause in the morning I don't feel exhausted when I get up. So there's a lot of those sorts of things, which we can be quite effective as well, as and lifestyle. 

[00:43:50] Sam: I mean, I feel like sleep is, like you said, that top down sleep is so important and I'm really interested in what you said about women in their forties generally [00:44:00] have sleep problems.

I, I don't have sleep problems. I, I think it's because I get up at four 30 every day and then meditate for an hour. I don't know, but I feel like it could be because I do that. So I get up really early every day and then I also lift heavy weights.

Nearly every day, which, you know, it's not correct. Just everyone knows you should only do it three times a week or something. But anyway, I pretty much do, do some solid form of, strong exercise every day, and then I'm teaching, doing yoga, all those other things. So I've moved very physically by the end of the day I'm ready to sleep.

And also, one of my other things is if I do wake up in the middle of the night, I take it as an opportunity to practice lucid dreaming. So I actually, really enjoy if I wake up and it's, I'm in what I call the sort of, in between etheric hours because I think, oh, I could go and do a little wandering of lucid dreaming right now I actually have a lady that. came to my yoga class last night who was actually saying, yeah, she really does struggle with it. 

[00:45:00] Elysia: Mm.

[00:45:00] Sam: talk to me about 

[00:45:01] Elysia: Oh well I've got some women that say they've never slept, then they're in their fifties and they're like, oh, never slept well since they had children because I've always got an ear out, you know? So some women, it starts then, and I think you are a great example because you, uh, do have a very physical job and you do lots of hard exercise and you're not sitting at a desk all day, whereas, so you probably are tired and your nervous system probably is quite.

Aligned because of all the things you do to help yourself there. Whereas someone that's rushed around in the morning and gotten all their young children out the door and gone to a job where they sit in their bum all day and don't move and they're just using their brain, using their brain, using their brain, and they haven't had any time to chill out or to move their bodies is not going to be able to get home and switch that brain off really easily, especially when you have low progesterones.

The biggest thing that declines really quickly at the start of perimenopause quite early before estrogen might change is progesterone and so it's our [00:46:00] ovulatory, post ovulatory hormone, so we're still ovulating a lot of the time. It's just that it's not as high as it. Progesterones on as high as it was, and progesterone turns to a hormone that helps us sleep really deeply.

It's like, you know, chills you right out and helps you sleep really well. So like 40 to 60% of women in perimenopause can experience insomnia at some stage actually really, really, really common. so I think what you were saying, like, you know, like one of these step tracking watches or rings, like today I've only done, gosh, it's nearly three o'clock, I've only done nearly 1700 steps because I've sat on my bum and talked to people all day.

Whereas yesterday I quickly drove down at five o'clock to the beach and had a quick walk on the beach and I'd done seven or 8,000 by the end of the day, and so I think moving your body. Or doing some meditation or having a laugh, or, even my daughter's nine, and we just walk, we walk around the block for 20 minutes and have a chat.

I can feel all that energy from my day just in my body, and I just, I feel like I let it out. We, even after I have a little street wander, it's not a hard exercise session, but my mind feels so much better, 

[00:47:06] Sam: I think the amount of caffeine we consume too. 

Like I I really, I really note that, that I'm not anti coffee. I like coffee and I will have two coffees a day actually. But, I just think, I notice that a lot of people have a lot of coffee and then they don't actually think about the fact that chocolate has caffeine or other things have caffeine or they're having an energy drink  re I mean really quite overstimulated anyway, and then if you don't get onto like our phones and the way the light is affecting us and blah, blah blah, then you know, we are so 

[00:47:38] Elysia: Well, it's, it's an interesting thing to try. Like I have a love-hate relationship with, with coffee. I'm fine with tea, drink plenty of normal tea, caffeine. But, um, yeah, in perimenopause I've given up coffee for quite some time a number of times, and I feel like my stress and anxiety personally is a lot less and my hunger levels and craving rubbish [00:48:00] is a lot less.

'cause when the coffee wears off, I just feel really low blood sugar and I feel really shaky and I just feel really tired. And my energy and brain fog completely changed when I, I was literally having one coffee in the morning with breakfast and it made a huge difference to me to stop coffee. Absolutely huge.

And I was having the protein breakfast, the full, you know, great nutrition, blah, blah, blah. But for me, coffee just made me feel so exhausted. It wasn't funny in the afternoon. And just giving up that one coffee has made all the difference. another thing which can affect sleep. For women apart from the low progesterone.

So our, our, you know, our doctors at Vera prescribe a lot of bioidentical progesterone. I see that helping sleep too, is often regulating your blood sugar. If women wake up at like two or three in the morning or one, two or three in the morning, often it's, they might have had dinner quite early, like six o'clock.

And then if they didn't have a supper or a snack and they just ate their dinner, they're trying to eat less and not gain weight and whatever. Um, their blood sugar for some people can be really low at that middle of the night phase. And, they're waking up and they can't join their sleep cycles together.

And sometimes I'll just say to someone, just try a snack close to bedtime, like a supper in that hour before like a handful of nuts or some yogurt or some cheese on some very grainy crackers. Just something little and do it for a week and see what happens. And often they'll sleep through and it was just that their, like blood sugar dropped.

Which you should be able to deal with. But for them it was enough to just make their sleep really rubbish. And sometimes, yeah, the amount you're eating at night, what you're eating and having a snack can help. and there's beautiful herbs for sleep, like natural medicine wise. Um, there's a herb I use a lot, a Chinese herb called Sisyphus, which is cooling for hot flushes if there is any.

Calms, cortisol and stress. But it also has a melatonin like effect where it really helps sleep, which is beautiful. With Thania Asana, our little friend who does really, really helps sleep at night. [00:50:00] Um, you know, chamomile and skull cap and passion, flower, magnesium, there's lots of options that are good for, nourishing sleep.

And if the body is. Hot too. There's, an amino acid called glycine, which is in some of the magnesium powders that I use that helps drop your body temperature. And it, there's a little switch in your brain that senses your body temperature. And then once you're cool, which is why some people like having a hot shower at night and then cooling down quite quickly can help your body get into that parasympathetic deep sleep mode.

So glycine can be a trick to get the body into that. I'm feeling a bit cooler, which is good if you've got flushes too ready for sleep, you know. But, um, yeah, a lot of women respond well to magnesium. 'cause if you're drinking lots of coffee and you are stressed, you are smashing through your magnesium through the day.

you shouldn't have to take all these supplements. If, if, in an ideal world, our soils were all full of great minerals and we ate really well, but sometimes we just aren't getting enough. And, and supplementation of the right things can, can sometimes assist. You get through a hard time. Yeah, they're perfect world.

We'll be meditating on the mountain top with Sam coming through very medal 

[00:51:08] Sam: it was on a mountaintop away from everyone. 

[00:51:11] Elysia: away from our children and our partners. 

[00:51:14] Sam: I'm 

[00:51:15] Elysia: We love them. We love them. 

[00:51:16] Sam: no. Oh, no, I do. Absolutely. And I don't want to be there, but yeah, sometimes I do. okay. I think we can, we could like go on forever, but I'm conscious of time and you needing to get your, your small children and so, I'm sure there's other things that we could have, touched on and people can absolutely, email in with any questions that We haven't 

[00:51:35] Elysia: Yes. We can do part two. I could talk all day. I could talk all week on. 

[00:51:40] Sam: exactly. So this would be really good. If you have questions that we haven't covered, then just please, email us or just put something in the Instagram post. That would be really good. We'd love to, do something else just before we stop though. so I know we touched on it, but I just wanna say like I know this is a big conversation, but HRT versus natural, medicine, herbs, [00:52:00] whatever else we, we can on offer. I mean, what do you think? And one of the, my questions is I'm not on anything and sometimes I worry, and I've talked to the doctors about this before, but I do worry. I think, oh, it feels like I should be on something. so, you know, what do you think? 

[00:52:17] Elysia: I just think you're a perimenopause unicorn, Sam.

[00:52:22] Sam: It could all go wrong next year. It's okay. 

[00:52:24] Elysia: I want to be like you. I think that's great. No, look, I mean, I mean, you know, we had a previous podcast with Peter who was saying how many percentage of women have symptoms, how many have medium amount, and how many have lots? You know? So there's plenty of women who don't have any symptoms as well, which obviously you are.

And I think your lifestyle and being a yoga teacher and being very fit. Being zen, is going to be really helpful for you. Plus you might have some good genetics for it too, so I praise that you are, are having such a good, good journey. It's amazing. and for me, like, I think perimenopause really brought out my premenstrual exacerbation of mood, almost more premenstrual dysphoric disorder, which can be very, very depressed and feel very dark.

I've had to work really hard on managing that, and I'm pleased to say that I've really got that under control, but it was really, really difficult. And so for me, the new hrts are very different to what they were like many years ago in the eighties, and they're, they're using bioidentical, which just means it's a fancy way to say.

Under the microscope, they're exactly the same as the hormones our body produces, whereas they used to be synthetic versions or copying, trying to copy them, but they had a lot more side effects. So bioidentical hormones for hormone replacement are actually a lot nicer to take these days, and I have tried them.

I, I sort of go on and off them and I find them very helpful, like really helped my pain and my, plantar fasciitis. And then when I took the estrogen, [00:54:00] I just loved everyone again. I was just like, I don't hate everyone. You're not all annoying, like, you know, and my brain felt better, but I just felt the love a bit more, you know?

And my body felt less old and sore, but I'm also on. So I think that's been very, very helpful for my mood and for my body. But I'm also on, uh, I go on and off herbs like St. John's. What really works for me for my stress and overwhelm and adrenal herbs for. Energy and stamina 'cause I'm pretty prone to burnout.

it's part of the reason why I became a naturopath 'cause I had glandular fever as a teenager and a lot of issues with energy and immune system. and I certainly find magnesium and calcium. There's a study on calcium, a certain amount of calcium for two months, really reducing premenstrual mood symptoms and that has made a massive difference for me.

Really helps. So I kind of think you don't have to decide between herbs or natural stuff or HRT, you can actually combine them or you can just do one or the other. The beautiful thing about Vera is we have our doctors and our gynecologists. So I see a lot of women that might be on HRT or they tried it and they didn't like it, or they're absolutely loving it, but they still come to me to sort of assist with other stuff that's going on in their perimenopause journey because there's sleep and how sore your body is and, and heavy periods.

And then there's mental health and then there's, you know, libido and there's, there's cognition. Like there's a lot of things and often one thing doesn't fix all of it. So. The cool thing about modern medicine and being educated women is that we have choice and we can combine things safely. You just need to see people that know about what you can do.

And I, and I'm fully loud and proud about saying I'm on all of the things because for me, I have a lot of my brain is the type of brain that's very sensitive to hormonal changes. So [00:56:00] perimenopause hasn't been easy for me, but I've really learned to get it under control and to make it work for me by using the tools.

And I'm very grateful I have our beautiful gynecologist to talk to and get their advice. And, yourself and Paula who talk about the importance of exercise, which is probably the last thing on my list, I really need to take control of, which I haven't done a very good job of yet. and then nutrition, myself and Desi would know a lot about, you know, the, the extra protein and then the types of Leo, low gi.

So there's just so many things we can do to just feel. Awesome. think, I think perimenopause, if you do have a lot of symptoms, it's the time when you do need all of the things. It's all right, it's all right to feel like you need a lot of help because you have spent years helping everyone else and being everything to everyone. So it's actually the time to put the oxygen mask on yourself 

first. ' I find the women that just aren't taking that time, they're having a really hard time of it, and it's time to stop and, look after yourself. It really is. 

[00:56:58] Sam: Yeah. absolutely. So really the big takeaway that I've had from speaking to you today is that we need to make the time to look at what we've got on our plate and. Figure out our schedules. and then from there, look at the symptoms that are appearing and, get the right people on our team. 

[00:57:17] Elysia: Yeah, absolutely. And just two. Don't put up with medical gaslighting. I've seen so many women go in and they come to me and say, oh, but my doctor told me I wasn't in perimenopause because of, I've still got my period regularly. Or, they did my hormones and they were normal. But you can still have perimenopause and have regular periods.

It's just that all of your soreness and your mood are completely from perimenopause. And I see so many poor women being told, oh no, I'm not in perimenopause. But the research shows that, your hormones are all over the place, so you might test them one day and they're fine. And as you, you shouldn't really do a blood test just for perimenopause.

You should go off all of the combined list of symptoms. So these, these women, if you [00:58:00] think there's something going on, seek out people that know what they're talking about in your local area because. you can feel a lot better than you do, and you need to just be acknowledged and listened to. So important.

If you know there's something different in your body and you can't explain why, all of a sudden your moods are all over the place and you've always been pretty fine, it's, you know, there's some's a reason for that. So, yeah, I think very passionate about that. Makes me very angry when women are, just not listened to gaslit really, you know? Yeah. 

[00:58:31] Sam: I, I, no, 

[00:58:32] Elysia: me 

very angry. 

[00:58:33] Sam: no. And I, no, I'm totally with you. And I think, um, exactly like I was saying about we don't really want to be told how to sort out our nutrition by a man at this stage of life. One of the things that's important for me is just contemplating, Yeah. I need a woman who understands what I'm going through and who can really see me, or a man that I trust, who I feel is actually open and more integrative in that way. But, you know, ultimately, Yeah. this is the time to really choose the team and to know that Yeah. you're being listened to properly. 

[00:59:05] Elysia: And to inform your partner too, I find that's really useful is to sort of explain if you have a partner, what perimenopause is and please do some reading about it, or please explain the symptoms to your partner to just say, look, I'm just really not feeling great. I think it's this. Or I might be up and down in my moods or my libido or my, you know, just all of these things are happening to me.

And it could, it's like puberty, it could be going on for quite so many years so that your kids and partner and everyone around you understand so that they're not, so, you don't feel less than, or, you know, so you can have a bit of support if you're 

[00:59:44] Sam: absolutely. 

[00:59:44] Elysia: It's really important. 

[00:59:47] Sam: Gosh, thank you so much for, um, for sharing your wisdom so openly And about your own personal journey today. That's been really helpful, I'm sure for many. yeah, like I said, if you have any comments on anything that we've discussed or [01:00:00] any questions, then please, um, do email us or comment on, our Instagram posts and we would be happy, to either get Alicia to answer or we'll come back on and do a follow up, on any topic that you feel that we've missed.

so Thank you I hope that the rest of your day is beautiful.

[01:00:19] Elysia: Thank you so much. Thanks, Sam. 

[01:00:21] Sam: Take care.