Podcasting Momentum - The Marketing Flywheel for your Businesss

Tina Dietz Reveals How to Know When Your Podcast is Ready to Become a Book

• Josh Troche - Pedal Stomper Productions • Season 3 • Episode 11

Share episode

Podcasting builds awareness... but if you want credibility that opens doors, gets you speaking gigs, and positions you as the expert in your space, you need a book. In this episode, discover how to turn your podcast into a powerful authority asset that works long after the mic is off. 

In this episode, Josh Troche brings in publishing powerhouse and podcasting veteran Tina Dietz to uncover why your podcast is already a book in disguise and how turning your audio into a book can skyrocket your credibility, unlock new revenue channels, and cement your status as the go-to expert in your field.

If you’re a business owner or marketing manager using podcasting to grow your brand, this is your roadmap to next-level authority. Tina breaks down her exact process for turning 50+ episodes into a professional, publish-ready manuscript—without losing the soul of your show. She shares how voice tempo affects your perceived credibility (yep, how you breathe matters), what AI tools can and can’t do for your content, and the major mistake most podcasters make when trying to write their book.

You’ll also get actionable insights on the three types of podcasters who are primed to publish, how to structure your episodes so they easily repurpose into written gold, why a podcast alone won’t give you the authority a book can, the publishing myths that keep most creators stuck, and what actually makes an audiobook worth listening to (spoiler: it’s far more than just reading into a mic). 

This is the episode for podcasters who are ready to go beyond awareness and start building authority that sells. Tune in, take notes, and get ready to write the book your audience didn’t even know they needed, but won’t stop talking about once it’s in their hands.


If you're looking to talk podcasting and get more information on how to make your podcast shine, our 30-minute "no pitch" podcast consultation is right for you!  Click the link to sign up for a time. 
https://pedalstomperproductions.as.me/no-pitch

Staying up to date on the latest podcasting news and trends doesn't have to be difficult. We can deliver them right to your inbox. 
https://www.pedalstomperproductions.com/

Want to start your own podcast? https://www.pedalstomperproductions.com/contact-bedford

Book your time in our state of the art studios: https://www.pedalstomperproductions.com/podcast

Join our Discord Server and let's chat about your podcast https://discord.gg/CWk9aUuNtM

Want to read about this? Check the blog!
https://www.pedalstomperproductions.com/blog


Josh Troche: You're looking to build awareness and that's why you built your podcast. You're also looking to build authority, and there's a lot of tools that you can do to build that authority. But what if I told you building a book from your podcast is one of the top ways to do that? There's a process to it, and this isn't just simply like dumping all your stuff into a large language model and saying, give me a book.

Me? I typically listen to podcasts because I didn't want to read, but I find more and more I'm looking at books because there is that authority behind it. How do you create your book? Well, that's what we're going to talk about this week. Stay tuned.

Tina, thank you for coming on today. So Twin Flame Studios, of which we're going to have to ask about that in a little bit. You're listed as helping thought leaders use their voice to create an impact. I love that. In large part, that's kind of what we're all trying to do, I guess I would say, in the podcasting industry.

But you coined the term, and I love this: pod craft. There's pod fade. There's all sorts of pod terms, pod craft, and this isn't one that I have heard before. So what exactly is pod craft, and how does it fundamentally change how like a creator should view their show?

Tina Dietz: Well, we are pioneers, I believe anyway, in the research I've done in what we call voice powered publishing. So we've been producing audiobooks for a decade, and, you know, with previous 500 audiobooks, and we've pushed the boundaries of the methodology on that. And so being in the publishing world for as long as we've been, and I also run a monthly gathering of publishing professionals. There's about 200 people in there.

And so just being steeped into that world, I started asking the question, why aren't we using podcast content to create really world class books? Because, you know, when folks like us who like the sound of our own voice, you know, I've hosted in a bunch of podcasts. We used to have a podcasting division where we launched and ran podcasts for years, but why aren't we using that as a body of work? Why aren't we defining our podcast content as a body of work?

And I kept getting answers from the publishing side of things, saying, it's too hard to organize all that content. It's too hard to analyze. It's too hard to draw from. We'd rather start from the beginning and really have a methodical way of approaching a book. So we can't use podcast content; it's too chaotic.

And then from the podcasting world, we're like, well, we don't know how to create books. We aren't sure how to do that, or we aren't. You know, we haven't thought about it from the beginning. Do we have to change what we're doing? Do we have to think about it in a different way?

So, I put my head together with my business partner, who's also my husband, Robin Thompson. And we came up with a methodology of producing really high quality books from podcast content using the best of the human knowhow of the publishing world and the technology that we now have access to. And so this methodology really is about taking the craft in your books from a body of work that really is your podcast, because most of the time you've written an entire multiple books that you don't even know is there in your content. When you get over 50, 100, 150, 200 episodes.

Josh Troche: Is that that is that 150, 200 episodes? Is that a line in the sand where like, okay, yes. Once you get to this point, you have enough content, or where is there like when should someone start thinking about a book as a piece of this?

Tina Dietz: You could do it in a couple of different places. We like to have at least 50 episodes to work from, to have enough to work with. And when you hit 50 episodes on a podcast, you've also kind of gotten through the nerves and you've gone through kind of like, what the hell am I doing phase? You know, you've gotten into a groove and you probably also have if you're going past that number, then you're really into it. Then you've done it for probably, you know, more than a year.

So that's one arena to go in. There's three. The second arena is you did about 50 podcasts and you're like, this was great. I did a lot. I don't want to do this anymore, but I have all this beautiful work that I did. I want to do something with it. So now you're maybe pivoting and doing something else, but a book might be your next thing. That's the second scenario.

The third scenario is you're just getting started with a podcast, and you want to be really intentional about what you want to create from it. And you are using, hey, I'm trying to get audience members in this demographic or in this industry, and I know I want to intentionally be crafting out not just a book, but like an editorial calendar. Like I want to really be speaking on these topics that are important in this industry and putting thought into it.

Now, in an ideal world, all podcasts are like that one. As we know, all podcasts are not like that. So if your podcast was chaotic and then you stuck with it and now it's gotten into a different groove, we can still pull out the gold that was hiding in maybe some of those earlier shows, or were if you've got three or four or 500 podcasts, we might take the most recent hundred. So these are this is all different scenarios that we've run into so far in this process.

Josh Troche: That's interesting because yeah, I can see it. I mean, we've like every single one of us has been around a podcast that has experienced pod creep, where the subject starts, it starts to go away from what they originally talked about or things of that nature. So it's interesting to hear, like when you guys talk about the number of like episodes, to make sure that you've got the content that all fits within that window, that really people are looking to, to get into.

That being said, I mean, a lot of people use podcasting for awareness. You guys talk about using it for authority. What's the like? How would you explain that difference to someone, and why is that authority important?

Tina Dietz: Well, authority comes with credibility. So if you want to be credible in the industry that you're in, you want to be viewed as. And I mean, take the I word influencer out of this because we're talking about nonfiction in this case, 99% of the time. So taking a fiction podcast and then turning it into a book, actually not super necessary because in that case, more of a radio drama or you've already got a narrative crafted. There's a different process for turning that back into a book that is not going to be the same process that I'm talking about here.

So, and I'm happy to have that conversation with folks one to one, but because it is very different. But with a nonfiction book or a nonfiction podcast in business, spirituality, marketing, finance, parenting, wellness, you know, you name it, all of those have specific audiences you're looking to reach, and you are looking to be an authority in those spaces.

And when I say authority, I mean an industry leader, somebody who you say, oh, who's a credible, trustworthy, listenable, like somebody I want to be mentored by in this space. That's what I mean by authority. So when you're talking about having a podcast, sadly, in our current society, podcasters don't necessarily have the same cachet that authors do.

And so or somebody who is a well-known public speaker. So generally, when you're looking to create authority or create more room for yourself to take up more space in your space, you start to develop a platform. And so the platform includes a podcast. It includes your social media. It includes potentially a blog. It might include a Substack. It has to be very intentional. It doesn't have to include all those things, but ultimately.

You will rarely, if never see somebody who's really prominent in an industry not have a book. And so you've already created the body of work. Now we're going to translate that into something that is really durable, really digestible, and something that people keep with them. And we want the this is the type of books that we want to see on somebody's desk. They want to be, you know, stacked behind somebody. We want to see in their bag. Those are the books we're creating.

Josh Troche: I love that; it's funny. One of the things that like being in the podcasting industry, and I know you know this too, the barrier to entry in the podcasting is extremely low. Yes. Which is amazing and horrifying at the same time. Because anyone feels like they can put out that, that content, that those items, and in some cases, because they pushed record, they may get some authority.

I love your piece about how the book adds to that. It really it really brings that back in. It's like, look, this is in print. This is this is a big deal. What's something that like what's one practical tip besides just the book that someone could do to add authority to their podcast?

Tina Dietz: Oh, pay attention to how you use your voice. There's a lot of vocal qualities that add to how you're viewed, how you're listened to as a leader, as credible. The number one, in research, the number one, what do we call it, factor in all of it is your tempo. And it doesn't mean a particular tempo. It means your natural tempo.

And that means you've got your breathing together. So if I'm rushing through something and I'm really, like, talking and I'm trying to get my point in and everything, it immediately is going to stress people out. But if I, you and I were talking before the show and we mentioned Ben Stein, but it's very 80s reference. You know, this guy was known for this, you know, Bueller, or.

Yeah, hello kind of voice. If I really slow down to that point, then immediately you're going to go to sleep. But in either of those cases, my tempo is controlled by my breathing. Breathing will indicate that I feel comfortable, that I feel relaxed, that I feel like I'm in my groove. There's fewer ums and ahs, there's fewer stumbles, I have more fluidity in my voice.

And all of those things build that vocal profile of credibility. So since we're in a vocal, primarily audio world with podcasting, every podcaster should be paying attention to how they're using their voice.

Josh Troche: I wholeheartedly agree. I it's so often tell people I'm like, pause a little bit and let people hang on something, say it and let them process it. Let them think about it. Speak faster, speak slower. There should be change. You should be drawing people into the conversation. Totally, I love that, and that's a great piece with that.

In a lot of cases, there's people are looking for that direct return on investment when they are doing a podcast. And we always tell people podcasting is a slow burn. Don't record a podcast and think next week your money's going to come knocking through the door because it's not the way it works. What does adding a book add to that?

I know you mentioned the authority. How do you like do books often turn profitable? Do they just add the authority to add other things? What are some of the ways that people see that return on investment from doing the book out of their podcast?

Tina Dietz: Return on investment with books is very similar to return on investment with podcasting, when you're using podcasting for your business, as opposed to as a business. So that's that's fine. If you have a podcast, that is a pub trivia podcast or you have a radio drama, you're going to directly try to monetize that podcast, you're going to build an audience. That is the show. That is the thing that is paying you.

But if you're podcasting for your business, you have another line of business, and you're using this as a content builder, you're using it to, again, get people to you. Then your book is going to also bring people to you, but in a different way. You're going to have a new medium to reach people. So, and it is also a paid venue for you to have people.

So while most people in nonfiction, I'll say this just flat out, do not make money on their books, so you do not read a nonfiction book to make money on your book. You write a nonfiction book to be able to gather people to you, to have a lower cost price point item, to bring people to you, to build your authority when you go after speaking gigs, to make somebody choose you instead of choosing somebody else.

And, and also when you organize your body of work in a way that you can see it on paper, and it is now organized with a spine, with a structure, then it also allows you to kind of have the snake eat its own tail. You can build more content from that book, then you can build a course, then you can build a workbook, then you can build an Oracle card deck if you want. You can build a calendar.

There's a whole bunch of products that you can bounce off of that initial podcast book, a whole bunch of other products, and then those products will create more interest back to your podcast. And those products will also help you make more content for your podcast. So it becomes this cycle of a really virtuous cycle of content creation.

Josh Troche: It totally makes sense. And I mean, to me, what I see with it and so, so many cases is that parallel between the book and the podcast. I mean, granted, one is giving birth to the other one. That sounds weird to say, but one one's helping the other one. But it's it's it's really like in so many cases, the podcast isn't the thing that's necessarily going to make clients knock on the door.

The book isn't going to necessarily make clients knock down the door, but it is that thing that will push them over the line. If they're kind of on the fence. It is that thing that will help get them in the door if they're thinking about it. And that to me, I truly I see a lot of the parallels with them because they're I mean, I don't want to say they're one in the same. They're very different things, but they kind of end up doing the same thing.

It's always like we've always found it's hard to tie that direct return on investment, like, hey, that it's not often a client says, I listen to your podcast, and that's why I'm going to sign up for your services. But we found that it's built that authority. It's built that, hey, I'm familiar with you. So therefore it's easier for me to write that check and those types of items. We found a ton of that being said.

I going to I'm going to talk about the awkward thing in the room that seems to have sprung up. I and it's interesting because, I mean, we use a ton of our AI tools in our production. I'm assuming you guys use some AI tools in your production or the how do you see? What do you see as the importance of both podcasting and books as we move forward? As AI starts to become more prevalent to us, it's it's those authentic conversations, and it's that authentic representation is what we love and what we want to see and why we love podcasting. How do you see that in books as we move forward too?

Tina Dietz: Oh, it's this is a rich topic that I actually regularly on the audiobook side of things, I have an article that I've been, started writing last year that I updated for this year on, the state of AI and audiobooks, because I feel very strongly that the technology for audiobooks and other what I would call long form audio, like podcasting will probably come, but it is not there yet. And it really shows up heavily in this long form audio.

Because we still have not cracked the code on how to get voice clones to breathe. That's really the big one. Or to express themselves in a, in a bigger range. And even when you look at some of the AI tools that have come out just in the last few months that are like, oh, you can add emotion here, or you can add a laugh here, or you can add this here, because it's always the same laugh, it's always the same level of emotion.

It still produces that uncanny valley quality that after a while, the whole hippocampus, amygdala section of your midbrain starts to go. There's something weird here. What is this? There's something strange here. I don't like it. And it's a very biological neurological reaction. So in that sense, AI isn't quite there yet, but I do like it for short form audio.

Blog readers are a great place to use AI to meet create more accessibility. But on the other side of the house, when it comes to things like books or, you know, podcasts, content creation and this kind of goes across the board with all AI, only is decent in the hands of someone who already knows what the hell they're doing.

Josh Troche: I, I wholeheartedly agree. The other piece with that is too is what I, what I find interesting about it is AI only knows what's already been disseminated. It's not creative as of this point. If you've got a different take on things, if you've got a different way of looking at things, it doesn't know that yet. To me, and that that's one of the beautiful things that I truly love about that. I want to take a giant, giant step back.

Tina Dietz: Yeah.

Josh Troche: Where did the name Twin Flame Studios come from?

Tina Dietz: Yeah, that was, it was a big pivot in time. I had been, I've been an entrepreneur for many, many, many years. And so I had a business coaching company and then, through my own, paid hobby as a voice actor, stumbled upon this gap in the market many years ago of independent authors really not having access to audiobook services.

So I decided, back in 2015, to pilot that, and it took off to the point where I let my coaching business go and just decided to scale the company within less of a year. And so I'd been running that and kind of had hit a ceiling, in terms of scale. And I at the same time had fallen in love with a Canadian engineer named Robin.

And it turns out that this he and I are what in many circles would be called twin flames. So we are basically kind of like soulmates. We're basically here to, have each other learn on a really, really soul level. And so in a moment of absolute insanity that made total sense at the time, we decided to move in together, he was moving from Canada to the US, we were going into business together, and then we got married three months later and here we are.

And we still love each other and like each other, and we're still growing and thriving. And it is a hell of a journey. But I changed the name of the company when we went in business together. But it is our combination of superpowers that has allowed us now to scale the business and now also develop the software that is the backbone of allowing us to bring in an RSS feed and process it into a vectorized database that now allows a qualified ghostwriter, developmental editor to work with an author, to work with a podcaster, or to become an author.

And we're excited about all this because we have big plans for this software to go way beyond this, and to have people have their own bodies of work that they own, that are private, that are run locally on their computers, but then they're still able to query these incredible bodies of work on their own to help develop new content, to help develop new business processes that basically have you advise yourself in a way that you wouldn't be able to see normally.

Josh Troche: That is absolutely amazing. And it was that to me, the I love how you told the story, because my next question is going to be what's next? And hearing those types of things and that like what you guys have built in something like that, that is to me truly awesome when it comes to like when it comes to recording the audiobook side of that. What is the one thing that you think most people have completely misunderstood about that?

Tina Dietz: About recording audiobooks?

Josh Troche: Yes.

Tina Dietz: Yeah, it's about the, reading. 'I'm the reader on my book.' Reading your book out loud and narrating an audiobook are not the same thing.

Josh Troche: They are not. We, it's funny, we had Krissy, my co-host for The Business Fix podcast. It's how we started working together. Very, she has a book. She wanted to do it as an audiobook. She's a great speaker. And I told her we would record one chapter in the studio. And if she was still able to tolerate me after that, we would go ahead and do the rest of the book.

Tina Dietz: We operate very similarly.

Josh Troche: But yes, so we we came in and she sat there reading stuff, and I'm like, do it again, do it again, do it again, do it again, do it again. I should have just put that on a button, and no, it worked out incredibly well. Took it took I believe it was for three or four days in the studio.

Yeah. And she didn't kill me. So that, I was grateful for that. If someone is, there's two pieces to this. If someone is thinking about, like, how can I turn all of this material into a book besides calling you? Because I'm going to tell you, I'm going to have you give all your information at the end. What's something that they should have in mind as they start to look at this?

Tina Dietz: Well, it depends on how many episodes you have and how much you've paid attention to them. So if you have all of the transcripts, you can start to analyze those transcripts. The challenge about analyzing them with the current publicly available AI tools is that it is incredibly tedious to, so if you already know, hi, I want to cover all these topics, and this is the corpus of work that I know I already have.

These are the pillars that I speak from. This is the things that I cover. And you can then go out to your podcast and find the specific correlative episodes to speak on each of those topics. Then you can start to pull together the some pieces that are going to be useful in the development of your book, but I would never recommend that some take the approach of.

Well, and I'm going to put this in quote marks, 'Just clean up your transcripts,' because we do not speak the same way that good writing happens. There is a transformation process that needs to happen between the spoken word and the written word. And that is where you need a really good editor to work with you on that.

So you would need to create the vision, the, what we call kind of the book brief with the outline and the purpose. Who are you talking to? Why are you talking to them? What's the transformation or journey you want to take them on? All of those things need to be in place, and then you're going to start to pull material, just like a ghost writer would, from this body of work, and then work with an editor to then go through a transformative process, to take it from written, spoken word into really solid written word and then create a full narrative.

Now, beyond all that, to just get you to manuscript, then you're also going to need the publishing process. So everything from the cover of your book to the interior design, where are you going to publish and distribute? And then things like you have to go and buy ISBNs. So you have to know how to write a copyright page, you know, how to write front matter and back matter for a book.

There are a ton of steps in publishing a book that we take for granted, just like people take for granted what it takes to record an audiobook or produce a podcast. So at the very least, you need to find out what are all of those steps to be, being able to do that. That's actually why we offer free webinars every month for authors, different aspects of the book world to help educate authors on what they need to know, from everything from book covers to, how to monetize their books, how to find a good editor, or what are different kinds of editors. We cover a lot of topics month to month.

Josh Troche: It's so funny. And I the the analogy between the book and the podcast 100% holds true. The podcasting class I teach a podcasting class at Cuyahoga Community College, and it's so funny, people walk in the door to like, I didn't think I needed the class for this. I was just going to push record and it was just. And now.

Tina Dietz: And then a miracle happens.

Josh Troche: Right. Right. It's the the the example that I was given. It sounds like it could apply to the book. Is it turn let the the podcast or a book is going to turn out the same way as a paint job in a room. It's all about the prep. If you put the prep work into it, if you tape things off, if you remove the switch plates, if you if you cut everything in nicely, wash the walls.

The room's going to look nice. If you just walk into a room, pop the lid off and start to spin with a can of paint, it's probably not going to look as nice. And a lot of people think that's how you can paint a room. That all being said, I. This is a ton of great information. I'm excited. This is once again, it adds that other piece to podcasting that so many people are missing is that authority. And I truly love that. Where should people look for you guys at?

Tina Dietz: Oh, you can just look us up at https://www.google.com/search?q=TwinFlameStudios.com. We are absolutely there. You can also find us through podcast books. Or you can look up my name, Tina Dietz. I am the first, entry on Google for my name, so well done. I know I always feel so fancy about that. Although you know what? What the.

AI results. Now, I don't know if I have to see if I get bumped off by some, AI deepfake version of myself. I should go check.

Josh Troche: Yeah. You go. You go check that one. Tina, I really appreciate the time today. Thank you. This has been a hugely educational for me. And I know for all the listeners, too. For everyone listening, we will be right back, because I got to take a few minutes to summarize this. Thanks again, Tina.

Tina Dietz: Thanks, Josh.

Josh Troche: When I first set out and thought, hey, let's get Tina on the show, I didn't necessarily know what to expect. I looked at their website. I found their information, and I realized that there's going to be a process to it. And I realize, but it's it's like anything else when you don't realize how all of that's done. To me, the thing that I truly love about what they have and how they've built it is it's it's really it's built.

So you can take your existing podcast and go forward. Now, if you're just starting a podcast to build that with a book in mind, too, it's another great way to do things. They really they've they've got like all these bases covered. I mentioned during the podcast that it's the barrier to entry with podcasting. Some cases is kind of low.

I mean, it's one of the things that I truly love about it. Anyone can just grab their cell phone, hit record and they've got a podcast. There's both good and bad with that. To me, if I'm trying to build my authority, having things in print, having it, so I'm willing to put the investment in the time in all those other items in to make sure that this is disseminated in a way that shows that, hey, this can be reviewed, this can be looked at by other people. This, this, this is good stuff. This is real stuff. This is stuff that I believe in enough to really put that in here. That to me makes a huge difference.

And that's one of the things that I love about, like the book piece to this, it builds that authority in the same sense. With that. The other side of that is the fact that you can now have that as an audiobook. And as we know, podcasts and audiobooks are very, very different in how they disseminate information and how you get the information. If I'm listening to an audiobook, it's going to be this highly polished.

I mean, I'm literally listening to something that I would read. A podcast is much more conversational. It's much more relaxed. It's much more in the moment, even if it's scripted, even if it's those things, it's still got this base of authenticity to it. The book has the polish to add authority to that.

It says the research, all those other items, and even on the audiobook side, so, so many of us like, like getting this content served right in our ears. And the beauty of it, I talk about it all the time, is the fact that you can get it while you're walking, while you're driving, while you're doing other things. The fact that the podcast is just this giant content engine, it's a flywheel.

As it builds up inertia, it just spins off so many other things, so many other ways to reach people, so many other ways to build that authority, to build that confidence. As I mentioned, a podcast or a book isn't necessarily the thing that's going to get someone to say, oh, hey, I saw the book. I'm going to do this. What it does do is it makes that sales process easier. It does build that recognition.

It makes it easier for you to make that suggestion. Hey, I think you should do this. And because they're familiar with you, because they trust you, because you've built that authority, it is that much easier for that person to be able to do that. With all that being said, yes. I had a little bit of a break there, had some burnout. It happens. It was with the business, it was with the podcast. It was with everything. We took a week off from the business, fix everything like that.

I am back. We've got a couple of new interesting guests that are going to help you learn more about how to do your podcast better, how to execute better. We're going to work on some vocal stuff. We're going to work on some sound stuff, some video stuff, all sorts of great things to make sure that your podcast turns out better in the long run. Do me a favor. Hit the like button. Hit the subscribe button if you can. I would love to get a review. Let us know what you want me to talk about. Always happy to go find guest for you guys. As always, take care of yourself. If you can take care of someone else, I will see you very, very soon.



Head Shot

Josh Troche

Host