How Niching Down Saved Adrienne Wilkerson's Business and Boosted Brand Building with Podcasting

Thinking about niching down your podcast or business—but feeling overwhelmed by the idea? You're not alone. In this episode, we talk with Adrienne Wilkerson, co-founder of Beacon Media + Marketing, who demonstrates how niching down transformed her business and powered effective brand building with podcasting. 

Discover how Adrienne took a bold step by focusing on mental health marketing and how this niche approach fueled sustainable growth. We explore why niching down is essential for podcast lead generation and overall business success, especially when viewed through the lens of podcast marketing.

Adrienne shares actionable strategies on marketing a podcast like a brand, the importance of defining your target audience, and the difference between client-attraction podcasting versus simply producing content. We also dive into the long-term benefits of consistent podcast content repurposing services, highlighting evergreen strategies that continue generating leads years later.

Perfect for small business owners, marketing managers, and podcasters eager to enhance their remote video podcast production and overall podcast strategy, this episode offers valuable lessons in balancing short-term ROI with long-term brand growth. Tune in for insights that will help you create a podcast that truly builds your brand and attracts the right clients.

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Transcript

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This week's guest and I met through another podcaster who does a podcast in my studio, and we started talking about, hey, we should be guests on each other's podcasts, and we've become really good friends. But that's not why you should be interested in this. You should be interested in this because we talk about niching down and how holy cow, is that scary. But it's exactly what you need to do, not only for your business, but for your podcast. It's all about getting that marketing correct for your podcast. If you want to learn more about it, you definitely want to stay tuned. This is going to be annotated. You started Beacon Media in 2012. In Alaska. True of all. The crazy places to start a business, right? Right, right. Everyone thinks like, hey, when you're gonna do marketing and all these other things, you're going to be New York, you're going to be L.A., you're going to be London. You're like, no, I am going to go to the absolute middle of nowhere. Alaska, and I'm going to start doing marketing about that. Yeah, this. This is why we get along, because let's take an idea that sounds kind of bad, and then let's make it work anyways. Yeah. Well, on top of that, to make it even more of a I mean, this warrior was born and raised, right? So being coming from the middle of nowhere, but nobody was doing it in Alaska. Nobody was doing digital marketing. As an agency, there were a lot of great freelancers doing bits and pieces of it, but nobody was really kind of bringing it together. So, you know, here we are, you know, my co-founder and I at the time launching this digital marketing business way ahead of what was happening in Alaska. Like we were past cutting edge. We might have even been past Bleeding Edge at the time. I mean, it was so early to market. It was brutal. But we saw what was happening and the rest of the United States and we're like, hey, either we get ahead, get in on this, get ahead of this. And really why we saw it being such a powerful thing for Alaska is that we've got a lot of amazing small and medium businesses in Alaska. It is our you know, the state's nickname is The Last Frontier, and it fits. Alaska's kind of the place to go when you want to go about as far away as you can from everybody else. Unless maybe you're talking, you know, Arkansas, Ozarks or. Something, right? Middle of nowhere. Montana. But Alaska's kind of that place of new beginnings, that place of, you know, we're pulling up all our stakes. We're going to go out to the crazy boonies, and we're going to start something new with a bunch of duct tape and baling wire. I mean that if you don't have to MacGyver it, wave and start pretty much. Well, that's I mean, that's what my co-founder and I did. We MacGyver did out the wazoo. I don't think we had maybe more than about 100 bucks in the bank when we merged companies and and started this thing, but it was just like, okay, we got vision, we want to do this. And I had vision for it being a, a national company even at that time. I'm just saying there's there's something special about when you have to be scrappy and build it from the ground up and be creative because you don't have a lot of funding that really pushes you to be creative and find unique solutions to problems, instead of just doing what had always been done. But that was kind of the name of the game for digital marketing in 2012. I mean, nobody knew what end was up and it was brand new. It was the wild West, it was Wild West had little thing of which. So the thing that I find interesting about this is you guys have kind of, I don't want to say pivoted, but you've niched in on a lot of the mental health space. Is a lot of the clients that you've worked with. And we talk about it from the podcasting aspect. A lot of people want to be they want to be every person's podcast. Right? Right. The just the look on your face of, oh no, no no no no no no no no. Bad podcaster bad bad bad podcaster. Everyone is no one. That's what I would correct. Yes. Yeah. We say something similar. So when you like when you decided to really niche in on that. I know it's something you talk about a lot but like what was the point where you said, we have to do this in order to survive, in order to thrive, in order to make sure that we're actually dealing with people instead of the vapor. I think there were a couple of phases to it when we were exclusively in Alaska as a business. There's not as much variety, if you will, and really business. Is there a little bit of a shallow marketplace. Right. So when we were in Alaska our niche was small medium business, very broad niche. But that was about appropriate, I would say in some ways for the Anchorage and surrounding area marketplace, because we were small enough that we didn't want to take on competing clients. Sure. Because there was just there wouldn't be any privacy between what this dental, you know, therapy office or whatever their, you know, marketing strategy versus another ad. So we quickly started to saturate the market for what we wanted to do in Alaska with the small and medium business. So like so then we decided, okay, so that was phase one was going national and going, okay, we're going to take what we learned in having to be really scrappy and creative and, you know, make things work with a small population. We're going to take that and start working nationally well very quickly. That niche got huge. You know what was maybe a smaller niche in Anchorage was now no niche whatsoever. So that after a couple of years of working on the national level, we realized we were no longer practicing what we preached. You know, we always told our clients, like we said before, you know, any everybody is nobody. You've got a niche down. You got to define that ideal client, profile. And so all of a sudden we, all of a sudden, being two years ish, realized we were so far outside of our of what we were trying I preaching to other clients. So we're like, man, we really got to change to this, right? Sure. But it's scary to niche down, 100%. We've walked so many clients through how scary it is, and yet I don't think we were really prepared for how scary it was for us to do it. To be honest. It's funny. I talk about this sometimes too, is it's the cobbler's shoes. It's the same reason why you never, ever, ever. Biomechanics car. He worked on them all week long. His. If it got him to work, it's fine. Does it have oil? He doesn't know. He hasn't checked it since the turn of the century. It it it works today. And until something falls off, that makes it. And so oftentimes I catch us doing it with our podcast. I catch us doing it with our marketing. We're like, hey, I know we just told you to do the thing, but we're not going to do the thing. And I'm like, crap. And I think the thing that I like about it is you touched on it is it's scary as hell to do that. How did you start doing it? I mean, to me, I know most people think, oh, you just target a specific client, but there's a no side to that also, isn't there? And that's the tough part. How did you get tough? How did you get through the the know side where someone approaches you that's outside of your wheelhouse. And you got to be like, I love what you do. I think it would be great to work with you and you have a checkbook, but no. That is still the hardest thing, I think. I don't know that that ever gets it. Does not. Better. So let me answer your the first part of your question and start there. So what we did is we went through our existing clientele and we really narrowed it down to who are we winning for? Who are we really making a difference in their lives with the marketing that we're doing? And how does that compare kind of to our other clients that maybe we're doing a really solid job for them, but we're not knocking it out of the park. And so of course, that leads to the question of why are we, you know, only doing here, hearing this. But so that was that's a whole nother discussion. But we did look through like, who are we really winning for, what industries are we really winning with. And the mental health. And it was kind of it started off being health care. So it was pretty broad. We were looking at our dentists, our orthodontic clients, our physical therapy clients, and we started realizing we have a lot of clients in the health care space and what we call home services. So Hvac, roofers, plumbers, that kind of thing. So we kind of most of our clients are a significant portion of them fell into one of those two categories. So we looked in more in the health care world, partially because I have a background in that. So my father is a therapist. He retired just this year, actually, after 30 years of running a mental health and medical practice. He wasn't a medical doctor. He had doctors that worked with him, but he was the therapist side of it and he was the vision behind it. So one of my very first professional jobs was actually working in the reception side of his counseling and medical practice and doing the medical billing or, you know, had worker's comp and all this kind of stuff. And so I, I did that for many years. So I had this kind of inside understanding of how a clinic needed to run, whether it was therapy or medical, and also just being raised by a therapist. Yeah, I could talk the language probably better than I would like. And then my husband was a behavioral health counselor for many years, so I had seen the inside of how addiction recovery world works as well. So that was a very easy kind of niche to pick out then from that health care world. And I'll be honest, when we started, we didn't quite have the courage to go full all in, just on mental health. We narrowed it down to health care first with a focus on mental health and behavioral health. And so that was our first step in. So I would say that would phase two if you will. But that was probably our biggest step as a company to up to that point to niche down in mental health and in health care in general. But then that was 2019. So that was right before Covid. So did something happen right after that I forget. Yeah. So Covid hit and mental health took off. So it was right place right time. That doesn't always work. And small business the timing doesn't always work. This time. It did. I'd like to add something to that. You said mental health took off. The mental health industry took off. Mental health flew the coop. It did. Which meant mental health industry had to take off. That's a good point of clarification. Yes. So the mental health industry exploded. For better or for worse. And, you know, there was a much greater awareness of the need for mental health. I mean, heck, we are all stuck in our apartments, in our homes, facing ourselves and not really able to run a lot of places. So, yeah, all of a sudden that it was really and there's a lot of fear as we know and all that. So that really that really brought kind of the the spotlight on that part of that the health care industry for sure. And so we really doubled down and leaned into that. And now it's about 70 to 80% of our businesses. And that particular part of the health care industry. That's awesome. And the the pivot on that too is a to me, it's nice. And I think a lot of people will be glad to hear that it wasn't just a switch, it was a switch over a couple of years that okay, we have to be intentional about who we're finding. We have to. And it's the same thing really with the podcast is it's about finding your right audience. It's about finding the people that you are trying to talk to, because those are the ones that are going to tune in. There's something that when you were on Chris's podcast, The Better Business for Small Business Leaders podcast, because we ate at that one where she was in the studio, much like, we're doing the day remotely. And I'm going to read this because you do a drew a sharp line between lead gen, which you kind of considered as paid ads, fast results, but often lower quality. And then brand marketing, which is that slow burn 6 to 12 months. But that's the thing that usually creates those stickier clients. Those are the higher outcome clients. Those are the ones if they've if they've hung on with you for that. How do you when you're and this is going to go across from both the marketing side and the podcasting side because, you know, podcasting is not I'm like, I published my third episode, I am now rivaling Joe Rogan for popularity. Right. It is a very, very slow burn. It is a very long game. So how do you how do you I, I don't want to say square that circle because God is that overused. But how do you present that to people to say, look, this is 6 to 12 months of the first 5 or 6 months, you're going to be like, are these people even doing anything? How do how do you approach that? Because to me, the thing that I'm looking for in this is as we talk to podcasters about this, it's 86% of podcasts. Don't make it past episode 15, right? Right. And it's because they're like, well, I'm not Joe Rogan, I'm not famous. What the hell? Yeah. And they stop. So how do you how do you approach that to say, look, you buckle up. This is not a short ride. Right? I will say it's never an easy conversation. So most that is the biggest understatement, I think I have ever heard on my podcast. I might have a few more for you by the time we're done today, but we'll start there. So I would say, I mean, we every once in a while, we do have a company that comes to us that understands they've done enough in marketing. They understand the difference between, you know, sometimes we refer to paid ads as more the microwave versus the oven, you know, or they Insta versus the crockpot kind of a thing. Both are going to get you a great meal, but you're going to get one. You got a plan ahead for a lot more. The other one, it's a lot more instant. So sometimes we'll get clients that come in. They've been down this road before they get it. Those are the nice ones, the fun conversations because they're like, yeah, yeah, you don't have to tell me this. I get it. So the way that oftentimes we describe it is depends on kind of where the client's coming from, where their pain point is right now. And most of the time clients come to us and we're like, well, what's your goal? Well, I need more clients. Don't we all? So I was just about to say. Duh, right. But what kind of clients do you want? How fast do you need them? How fast can you scale. And that is oftentimes the pivotal question, because if we turn paid ads on, yes, like you said, we're going to get a lot more junk leads oftentimes, but we are going to get a rapid influx now, not as much as we used to, because I was interrupting that client journey and changing natural conversation, probably a conversation for another podcast. But a paid ads is still effective, maybe cost a little bit more to get what we could have gotten before I, but it's still effective. So sometimes it's like, okay, well, do you have the capacity to scale at the rate that paid ads can bring you business? Most people have not thought through that stage of it. They just think the cash register is going to ring and they don't need to do anything else like staffing or pricing. Right. Exactly. So it's like, do you have a plan for scaling? And if you do, great. Let's start with paid ads and let's run the two tracks together. Meaning paid ads gets you some of the faster, you know, feel good results right away while we're investing in the long content. But the the piece that is powerful about the long content that's pretty much always the saving grace in the conversation about, yeah, this is going to take, you know, six, nine, 12 months is the evergreen content component of it because paid ads is usually kind of a win for them. Thank you. Bam. We're done. It's it's fast. It's hitting somebody at a point of urgent need, which is where sometimes you don't get the depth of the client commitment as you do with the evergreen content, because that has been building an impression and building an image about who you are, who your company is. And the cool thing is, it's a gift that keeps on giving and all the best ways. Because now we've got this evergreen content that we've got blogs and podcasts that we've put out years ago, and we were blogging long before we started doing podcasts. I've got blogs from 2019, 2017 that are still, we can see, are still getting traffic that are still directly leading to form fills for us, which is what we count as a lead. Sure. So that investment maybe at the time felt like a long runway. But think about it. We're talking almost ten years later and that blog is still producing results now. We've updated it a couple of times. We've kept it fresh, which Google is really, really cares about. I less so, but it's still continuing to produce leads. And so when we paint that picture for a client, you invest. You know, some of our clients are five,$600 a click in paid ads. If they're in a really competitive marketplace and a really competitive niche, others, it's like $30 a click. You know, we've got a quite a range, but you think about your spending$5,000 a month on paid ads and you're getting leads as opposed to you spent $2,500 and a month and got 4 to 6 blogs that ten years later, that $2,500 is still producing leads. For you, still making money for you. It's interesting because the what we've talked about that same approach and the same thing that we've seen with like paid, for podcasting when we pay to promote podcasts and things of that nature, it does give you that initial hit, that initial like, hey, look, people are watching it. Yeah. If you shut that off, though, that goes away. And a lot of those people and the kind of the reason or two that I wanted to talk about it, you get a lot of those non sticky people, the ones that you have built over time, those are the ones that stay if you get them initially with ads, they're going to come and they're going to listen to your show. They're going to do those types of things. But we found that those aren't the ones that are necessarily necessarily coming back week after week after week to listen to you talk about a bunch of other stuff. Right? I want to go into your your identification as a dyslexic thinker. You shared you are not an auditory learner. No, I am not. It is my. Weakest learning style for sure. And it shows. Right. And it's funny because I'm the opposite. If I hear it I'm good. If I read it, I'm gone. Absolutely gone. Yeah. Has your necessity. Like, see it, do it, touch it, taste it, whatever it is. How does that like, has that shaped the way that you do your podcast at all? I would say it does, especially my solo podcast that I do. So those solo podcasts are based off of blogs that I've written. And so in some ways, I'm repurposing this content into multiple formats. So it is, you know, written quote unquote, you know, typed out but written. Right. The blog is written. And then I do a podcast. And the part that I love about being able to do podcasts from blogs is that I get to add in a lot of more personal stories as I go through and reading the blog, and it just is kind of a natural thing, because this is a funny thing about me and my dyslexia is I am a weak auditory learner, but I am an auditory processor. I process out loud so yeah, how funny is that? So it's really interesting when I'm getting to go through and read these podcasts or these blogs, there's stuff that would have been too long maybe to put into the podcast, but being able to then talk through it, and that brings things to my mind that I'm like, oh, right. And that brings to mind this story and that story or this example. And so to me, it it adds and enhances what was written. And so now I am speaking it. So we have written, we have spoken. And then obviously we do videos. So we have the visual side as well. So it for me that's one of the really important things and why I love doing those. But it's an example like I we definitely do subtitles on everything because I don't listen to videos, I read them, I read the subtitles, and most of the time I'm not at a place where I can have audio on. So I'm it's so interesting. And this is why I always love these conversations, because we are the exact opposite. I am I will have the video on and I'm listening to it. But it may be in my earbuds, in my phone, maybe in the other room. Staying. Yeah. The flip side of that is I will bullet point. Like, if I'm going to do a solo podcast, I'm going to bullet point things, I'm going to talk about it, and then we're going to write the blog from that. Yeah. Interesting. So here's the dyslexia is we go inverse from each other. We are backwards from each other in our process of both of these, which to me it's I first I find it interesting because obviously there's ten different ways to do the same thing. Right? And it's figuring out what fits, what works and how we we always talk to people about the podcast as a content flywheel. Right. You go on, you're talking to the microphone for an hour and it just spins a bunch of stuff out, which is great. The blog, the email, the post, the other thing. Right. But you do it the opposite direction, which to me is kind of cool because I've never thought of it doing it that way. We we've always been this line not realizing that you can walk it backwards. Recently you have said, everything is getting infinitely more complex, referring to AI. It's funny, this thing is coming in and it is made to make our lives simpler and easier and more wonderful. And in so many ways it has done that. And in so many other ways it has done the exact opposite. Well, that's true. Like it really has. I mean, because when I look at some of the stuff that we're able to accomplish, I'm like, oh my God, we couldn't do this two years ago in an hour, right? When I look at some of the stuff that we have to deal with, I'm like, damn it, I, where where do you see the human element as we move forward? I mean, you've got your podcast, you've got you've got those. Yeah. And, it to me that that's obviously see value in the human element of things. Where do you see that moving forward, I guess. And I would say more of the podcast aspect of that. Because, you know, there's the company out there that's doing what is it, 3000 podcasts a week. Right. All AI generated that, right? Yeah. So where do you see the human element moving over the next two years? Three years? Five years? Get out your crystal ball or your eight ball. Take your pick. It's a little bit of both, I think, right now. Right. Well, I think we're in this weird, phase, and it's not new, right? But there's my other, you know, blinding flash of the obvious for today. But, I mean, the.com world followed a similar or I was following a similar trend. It seems like too the.com world that we already saw a rush of technology and then a crash, and I think we're in some version of that again. And that's part of what's creating a lot of the confusion and complexity right now is that we all have a brand new great shiny object. We all have a brand new toy, and everybody's got a different idea of how to play with that toy and how that toy should interact in our lives, or and then there's others. Like, it's not a toy, it's a tool. And how dare you use it as a toy? Which both sides are going to happen? So we're in this like everybody is coming at this from a different angle all at the same time. And again, we saw that a very similar, not as intense because the.com laid the foundation for this. Shark. To be as intense as it is. So I'm kind of actually hoping for a bit of a crash. A bubble burst, maybe more like, you know, you poke a small hole in the balloon and it slowly deflates as opposed to an explosion. Because there's like a go fly across the room, right? Yeah, I we don't really need that in our economy again. But I think we need it in the tech development arc. So what? I mean, we're already starting to see some, a lot of the AI companies that were early to market with AI, they're already starting to consolidate. They're starting to, you know, one tool to do multiple things. Whereas before when I, you know, even just a year ago, you had to have your tech stack was so ginormous, we couldn't keep track of the names, much less what they did. Has the names got weirder and weirder and that's not slowing down? I'm just like, is this gazelle gizmo or G gizmo? I don't know what what? That's what it is, you know? So I think that we will see a consolidation, continue to see a consolidation of the technology, which I'm hoping reduces some of the complexity, at least in our tech stacks, where it's more like, okay, we've got five as opposed to 50 right now. So I'm that's where I'm saying I think the arc of it again, hopefully not exploding, but maybe some deflation in the confusion and the just insanity that's going on right now is actually going to help the human element piece, because there's too much for us to keep track of right now. And that means a lot of us are turning to AI even more to try to help us keep track of AI, which is a little crazy when you think about it. It's a lot of busy. So I don't I think I would like to see us be able to keep track of AI without needing AI to keep track of AI, meaning that we're comfortable. Like think of how we used email when it first came out or Jack slack just forward stuff, right? It was very elementary. It was very basic. We were still handwriting stuff. And honestly, they told us the same thing about email that they're telling us about AI now. Yep. This is going to make your life so much easier. You're going to have so much more time to do your own things. And yes, we. Just find other shit to fill it with. We did. We just got busier. And part of that is the U.S. hustle culture. Sure. But I so I'm hoping if I could paint my perfect picture, if you will forget the crystal ball. The eight ball. If I could paint my perfect picture, what I would love to see is humanity. And this is very idealistic, I know, but humanity learn from our past mistakes and use AI as a tool to really do what we thought a email was supposed to do, and the technology that came out during the. Com to do where it really does make our life easier. We instead of just filling our time with more podcasts necessarily just because we can, or more busywork, just because we can, that we really embrace a mindset shift of, especially in America of like, can we actually have 20 hour workweeks? Can we have 30 hour workweeks? Because we're leveraging these tools? Well, and we do have more mental capacity, and we're guiding the AI with that mental capacity because we're not quite as full. Our brains aren't as full with all the routine, mundane, repetitive, repeatable, repetitive. Sure. Repetitive. That's the word I'm trying to find. Repetitive where you're going. Yeah. So but that's the challenge. I think for us as humanity right now is do we make the choice to really change the way that we live, or do we just use this tool to help us stay more busy and hide more? Unfortunately. It's funny. I have two comments to that is. First off, I believe it was Mark Twain that said history does not repeat itself, but it often rhymes. And this this this is a rhyming thing. The other thing is, is that, I mean, we both know this as business owners as when someone says, yeah, we should have a 30 hour workweek. And we're like, what are you going to do? I mean, what are you going to do Wednesday then? Because I like 30 hours, that's Monday. Tuesday. Yeah. Yeah. Especially when you own a business. Correct. As as we both do. It's kind of like the someone's like, yeah, I worked 30 hours and I'm like, oh, well, what did you do Wednesday? Because we were done with that Monday and Tuesday. There's a question that I always like to finish out with, and it is you've got you have the one podcast or two podcasts I know there's the one. I just have the one, the beacon podcast. But my business partner has his that's called, conversations I cannot connect. So we're going to be promoting both of those on the website. Yeah. Good. Good good. That being said, what's next for your podcast? Yeah, that's a great question. I'm actually really working on niching it down and getting more intentional myself. And next year I'll bring my guests and the topics. I'm really wanting to do a lot more with the solo podcasts, where they become more of a teaching tool, where we're pulling in, you know, more visual graphics of. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Here's a screenshot of how you do what I'm talking about. So I'm I'm wanting to pull in a lot more educational kind of components instead of it just being a talking head, because really podcasting is going so much more visual. And kind of going away from the audio, not away, but the video is taking over, which is really not a surprise. It's interesting to see it go that way. I see they both have their place because I'm obviously I mean, your educational piece, if you start going to a chart and I'm driving that could be bad. Right, right. But additionally, there's there is so much room for both of them, and that's what I truly love about it. The last question I'm going to ask you is if you've got one sentence to tell someone that's thinking about starting a podcast, what would be the thing that you would tell them to do not to do? Warn them about whatever it is you've got one sentence to tell them. Just start and keep going. Oh, I love that, I love that. Where can people find you? Where can find people, find your agency? Where it tell people? Where the two others? Yes. I'm on all the social media channels. Personally, I definitely prefer LinkedIn, so that's where I spend the bulk of my time. So if anybody wants to find me, you can find me at Adrian Wilkerson on LinkedIn, the company, Beacon Media and Marketing. We've got a great website that we're in the process of overhauling right now. I can't wait. We've got a march date for release of our new website, so that'll be exciting. But that web URL is beacon, like a lighthouse beacon, for media and marketing.com and beacons on all the social media channels as well. And the Beacon Way podcast is on all the normal podcast stuff, as well as YouTube. Wonderful. I thank you very much for the time today. I will be back in just a minute with my review of this. I have, I have notes, I took notes, I have never imagined that that, you know, I can can't read them hardly. But you see. Thank you once again. We will, talk soon. And for everyone out there, Stay tuned. I'll be right back. Wonderful. Thank you. Great conversation with Adrian. And I know she's got one of those names that sometimes I say it right. Sometimes I say it wrong. I know she watches this. She's going to give me all sorts of hell about that. I am okay with it. Bring on the wrath. I have no problem with this. There's a couple of things that I really wanted to review with this, and one was how like her agency changed and when she changed that, she's looking at now changing her podcast to more update with that. But really it is. It's about making sure that you're talking to the right people and making sure that you've got the right message for the right people, she says. When you talk to everyone, there's no one. And we've said that to when you go to try to talk to everybody, you really end up talking to absolutely no one. The piece with that is it's scary. It's it's always scary to to niche in a niche down and and really talk to that one group because we want to be as popular as possible. It's human nature to want to, especially in a marketing or business setting. You want to talk to as many people as you can. The problem with that is, like I said, you really end up talking to no one. Is it scary? Yes, but it's one of those things where, I mean, it's kind of like learning how to swim. You get in the water and you get this figured out like, oh, this isn't really all that scary. And now I've got a new skill, now I've got a new thing. Now I'm able to move forward with what I'm doing that to me is the big unlock with that. The other one was the piece that she talked about with the dyslexic thinker thing. Really got me thinking. We do the podcast to help generate so many other pieces of content. That's why when we work with so many of you, it is. It's about that branded content, and it's about using the podcast to build those other things. She does it the other way, and I didn't really even think of it. Doing this way. If you like to write, if you like to come up with those things, then you should come up with those things. And then we can also help you turn that in to a podcast. It doesn't always have to start with a podcast. It doesn't always have to start with those notes. And that was the thing that I guess I was probably missing in all of this, is that it can start with any one of these pieces. You can start with an email idea. We can turn that into a blog. We can turn that into a podcast. It doesn't have to be this linear thinking. It doesn't have to be this one way to go. The last thing that I really want to cover is that quote unquote sticky client. We've we've worked with other firms who know if other firms are like, hey, we'll get your 10,000 listens on your podcast. And as a marketing podcast that sounds amazing. I've also referred to how sometimes that is a cell phone farm in Singapore. It's not actual people. No one's actually listening to your podcast. If you want the vanity metrics, you can do that. But really, if you are looking to build these long term relationships, if you are looking to build something that like, let's say, has a longer business cycle, this truly is a great, great way to do it. That all being said, if you're looking to move your podcast forward, if it's just maybe you've got a question on camera settings, maybe you've got a question on how to get a bigger audience, maybe you're looking niche down and you really need help doing that. We can help do that. If you sign up for our 30 minute No Pitch podcast consultation, you can sit with you and I. It will be you and I. We will talk about what you can do to move your podcast forward. I'm not going to give you a pitch at all in it. It's not what we do. We are purely here to help. I say this all the time. It's in my email signature. Our company's core value is. Success is a shared thing. If you're successful, we're going to be successful. That's really all there is to it. That all being said, I really appreciate you coming along for the ride. You'll be one with a door, a review, give us a comment, whatever you think, do me one last favor. Take care of yourself. If you can take care of someone else too, I will see you very, very soon.