Strategy Over Tools: Podcast Lead Generation & Systems with Nathalie Doremieux

When you transition from Silicon Valley software engineering to the creative world of podcasting, you bring a unique "systems-first" perspective. This week, Josh Troche sits down with Nathalie Doremieux, founder of The Membership Lab, to discuss why brand building with podcasting is the ultimate tool for humanizing complex business systems.

Nathalie reveals her "logical" path from IT to marketing and why hearing a person’s voice accelerates the trust factor in a way that written text simply cannot. One of my favorite things about thie episode is that Nathalie really dives into how to change a podcast into a scalable lead-generation engine.

In this episode, we dive deep into:

• The Buyer’s Journey: Why you must reverse engineer your ideal client's workflow to understand where a podcast actually fits.
• Asset Episodes: How to identify and create specific episodes designed to live in your CRM and nurture sequences for years.
• The Quality vs. Volume Myth: Why 50% of podcasts have 30 downloads or less...and why that’s plenty if you're reaching the right people ready to write checks.
• Eliminating Friction: How being your authentic self on mic acts as a natural filter, attracting your ideal clients and repelling those who aren't a fit
• The "Shelve It or Do It" Rule: A blunt, necessary piece of advice for any business owner stuck in the procrastination loop.

Connect with Nathalie Doremieux:

• Website: themembershiplab.com 
• Free Resources: podcastleadflow.com
• LinkedIn: Nathalie Doremieux 

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Transcript

0:00

Podcasting is international. You didn't need me to tell you that. But what is interesting is having international guests on. This week's guest is from France, and she has some really, really good stuff about branding. And if you think your episode from like two years ago is dead and useless, guess what? It's not. We're going to talk about that in just a minute. Stay tuned. Nathalie, thanks for coming on today. You've got an interesting story because you started in it. You've got this rich background in this world of logic, and then you start the membership lab where you're talking about brand building with podcasting. I mean, you're you're humanizing these complex systems. You're working on this stuff. So how like, how did your system's first brain go over to the sometimes messy, some unpredictable world of content creation? How did you make that jump? Yeah, so actually it's pretty logical, I would say, in the way this came about. So our background. So I ran the business with my husband and business partner. And we are both technical come from IT, software engineers from the Silicon Valley. And uh, basically what this came about is we realized really quickly, like in our first six years of business, when we moved back to France, that just the technical bit. And like, you know, creating products, we were creating softwares is not going to get us a successful business because you still need marketing, you need sales, all things that we were trying to avoid. So through connections, because I belong to, you know, like a Networks of women. And I basically surrounded myself with other business people, you know? Um, because my, um, I don't I don't I'm not wired as an entrepreneur like my husband is, and I'm more like the employee trying to catch up and and and be the entrepreneur. But it's it's something that I have really to really have to work on. This is not really like why am at the core. So it's always been a bit of a struggle, but it's something that I know, so I can work with that. So the way this works is that by, by by basically being surrounded by other people really quickly, I realized that there are so many different pieces and hats that you have to wear, you know, in the business and the softwares that we are building, it turned into, well, let's build websites because that's what people want. Then we got into the e-learning space and the thread has always been We need to solve a problem. If you want people to buy your stuff, whether this is a service or a product, you have to solve a problem that they have that they're willing to pay for. Okay. So that's the logical bit. Now in order to do that, they need to know you exist, right? They need to know that you have a solution. And they need to know that belief that the solution will work for them. Right. So and how do you do that? Well, you do that through your visibility, through sharing content right through a marketing strategy. Right. Now, what I love about podcasts, and how this really came to be, is one of the fact that you don't have to be on video for people that don't want to be on video, but there is this thing about hearing people's voice where you can really feel the emotion and the energy, and if people actually believe in what they are talking about, right? It's very different than writing. You know, writing. You can read something and if you're in a bad mood, you're like, oh, she's attacking me, she's mad. And if you're in a good mood, you're like, oh, right. So there is this interpretation that you have with writing. And I think that when we do, audio and video is even bigger than that is you accelerate the trust factor. I mean, the love you or hate you kind of because, you know, it goes both ways. Yes, it does, but that's what I love about podcasting. You know, like if you have something to say, then and you're not a writer doing a podcast where you basically record yourself makes, you know, um, allows you to be much more like natural and just talk the way you talk to people, which is actually what you want, because this is how you're going to attract the people you're meant to work with, right and like writing where you can spend three weeks with writing your post. Right? You get close to zero engagement and then you're like, oh my God. Not that any of us have done that before. So. So that's really been the transition. It's it's really looking at what others are doing and then what it is that I want to do. So when I started my podcast, I now have one hundred and thirty seven episodes for the membership lab. I really started the podcast actually on a dare. Somebody said I was working with said, can you do one hundred days of videos live for one hundred days straight? And I said, yes, I can. I've done it before on Facebook. And I'm like, you know what? I'm going to record those and I'm going to turn that into a podcast. So those were the first one hundred episodes of my podcast, unedited. Wow. And then I went on to do thirty seven interviews because I got into it, you know, and I started to interview people and have, you know, like great conversations, you know, like around coaching programs, online programs, e-learning and all that stuff. So that's really where it came about. But it's always been like, is there a gap? Is there a problem that people are having right now and can I create a solution for it? Now the podcast is a great way to connect with people, like I said. But you also need a podcasting strategy, right? Just podcasting is not enough. You know what I'm talking about, right? I know exactly, we we talk about it all the time. It's you've got to have that strategy. You've got to have those pieces to it to make sure that. Yeah for sure. So is that where is that where the, the, the, the school kind of came out of that then. So, so basically podcast lead flow is that's really where it came from is like, how can we help people use a podcast to generate leads in sales? Like there is a missing gap, a connection. How do you connect with your listener? People believe that, and a lot of people still do that. People listen while running, gardening, etc. and half listen and do something else, you know? And that is true. Like that's one way that people consume podcasts. And you cannot change that, right? But you can be strategic about it because it's all about repurposing. And what do you do with those episodes? They are real assets, right? And I think that's what a lot of people are missing, is that they publish an episode and they think that it has a one week lifespan, and then they are back to creating another episode. No, you created an asset. How can you repurpose it in a way where you control the next step? I love that because I've had a number of guests where we've talked about like, first off, yeah, you've created that asset. There's so many different ways to repurpose it. And again, it's an evergreen asset. When I look back to our downloads, on our podcasts, on some of the podcasts that we produce for, there's, I mean, there's ten, fifteen, twenty episodes back, there's downloads coming in every single week. It's not I love the it's not a one week thing. Yeah. You've created this. Now, granted, the first week is probably when it's going to be working its hardest for you. Yeah. But as it goes along, it is still out there. It is still doing the work for you. I had someone the other day talked about, um, they did a podcast and off of that podcast they created a blog, and that blog is still it's one of the biggest drivers to their website. And that was done in twenty nineteen. Yeah, I'm not surprised. Yeah. When it's the right message at the right time. I mean, and we can talk about that too. But like the key in the content. What do you say in your podcast? Right. So that it speaks to the right person. Right. To the state of how they are right now. What do they need to hear for the next step? And so it's the whole podcast strategy. I think people think that podcasting is a strategy. You know, it's just a tool, right? Oh, I love that. I absolutely love that. Podcasting is not a strategy. It's a tool. Um, I make the example to all the time of how, um, I always tell people, any tool in your toolbox can be a hammer, but not any tool in your toolbox can be pliers. And too many people try and use podcasting as just a general tool rather than like, look, it's it's good at this specific thing. Not everything. Yeah. Um, with especially when it comes to the strategy. How like when you talk about the strategy and I love you talked about like the the journey. Are you talking about the buyer's journey in terms of like where they're at in terms of your sales funnel or what were you kind of referring to with that? So, so basically the I think the first thing is you need to understand or to be really clear in your head why you're podcasting. Like what is what is your intent? If you're selling high ticket and you're selling through calls, right. People have to book calls, then you need to reverse engineer that and think, okay, what do I need to share in my podcast for people to relate to what I'm talking about, for people to feel that she knows what she's talking about, how kind of like her style or his style, and what do they need to hear in order to trust you just for the next step. And the next step could be give me your name and I can send you something of value. Right. When we created podcast Lead Flow, it's like, give me your name, tell me a bit about you and I'll send you something really, really unique. Generated by AI. That's one of the things that we have that's unique to you. And that's where we make a real connection, because now they're like, okay, I'm telling you about myself. You give me something of value and then that person can be added to your CRM, right? To your follow up email sequence. You invite them to book on to go on a call or things like that, so that it's really like reverse engineer what what the ideal client workflow is and where does the podcast fit? So of course you're not going to have all your episode work that way, right? You can have interviews, you can have inspirational posts. But I really strongly believe that as part of your strategy, you need to have a couple of key. I call them asset episodes, where the sole purpose is to show you how you work, what your solution is, and thinking with having in mind the person that's ready, like the person that has the pain and is looking for a solution and might say, hmm, let me look into that. Okay, so and these you've literally used them as you're using a lead magnet, you repurpose them. We had a client, she shared that episode in a nurture sequence. Right. So existing people already on our list, they've never booked a call. They've never bought anything. She added it to the sequence as one of the value emails. You know how you nurture them, right? And you give them regular value. Well, if you have really, really good episodes that you know are relatable to people. Then add them to your nurturing sequence. Even if it's two years old. Like you were saying, it doesn't really matter. It's value. It's an asset. And because they can hear you and like, you know, reading from you, because they can hear you, they can feel the again, they can feel the energy. They can feel that you believe in what you're talking about. And they are much more likely to take the next step if they're ready. I love the way you word the the it kind of here, you and I. I'm not a big energy person, but I feel the same way about it because once again, so many people, they think, oh my gosh, what happens if someone hears me and they don't like me? And I'm like, great, they're not your client anyways. Exactly. Um, that person's going to call you and just be annoying until you finally say, look, we're not going to work together, or they're going to say, look, we're not going to work together. So eliminating people up front is not necessarily a bad thing. It is. It is very much. It gives you the ability to find your people, find who you're going to get along with, find who you want to work with. As long as you've got the as long as you've got the right words in place, and as long as you've been targeted for the funnel. Um, I love how you've said that. Um, it's interesting because to me, like, when did you feel like there's a lot of people that take podcasting and they struggle to move past? This is a hobby. Yeah. Um, and we talk about pod fade all the time. I believe that the latest thing that I saw was eighty six percent of episodes, or eighty six percent of shows struggle to get past episode fifteen. Yeah. Um, it's really. Yeah, yeah, it's tough. And, I mean, you and I both know this this is difficult. This is not just. Hey, I'm talking to the can, and magically it appears online. It's just this wonderful thing that is just people are going to have them beating down my door to to write me checks. Um, as as you have gotten into this. Um, like, when did you finally say, okay, this isn't just creating noise. This isn't just creating content for the sake of content. Like, when did the when did you say, shoot? We have to place this correctly in the funnel. We have to be strategic about this. When did that finally click for you? Was there a specific moment? Was there an episode? Was there a guest? What put that piece of puzzle in place? Um, I think it kind of came gradually, you know, like. Sure. What the what I remember of it is that I started to lose the motivation of finding guests or things like that. And I think when this happens, you really want to questions like, why am I doing this podcasting thing again? Like, that was fun at the start. But like, and if you're losing your motivation, then question like, why are you doing it in the first place? And are you able to. Measure. So for me, I want it more visibility. And I wanted people to know everything that I know about memberships. I wanted them to know that I am behind, uh, some really big membership, seven and eight figures that are in the coaching industry. I wanted people to know that, and I am able to share what I learned from these big, big companies that are working with my smaller clients. And when I realized that I could not figure out the impact that my podcast had on the business, I lost my motivation. Right? Makes sense. And then you have clients and clients are telling you, yeah, I saw your podcast. You know, I really like what you're doing. Like it's straight to the point. No fluff. It's pretty short. I think there are like ten minutes or something like that, unedited. And but I'm like, but I have no way to connect with the people that are listening. Sure. So is it efficient? You know, is it making sense for me to still do that? So this first test that we did with, um, with a friend where we, we put this strategy in place and she shared it in a nurture sequence. And guess what? She got somebody that was on her list, book a call while she was on vacation. So that was really cool. When she came back, she got the call and she saw the seven thousand five hundred dollars coaching program, and she told me, wow. I was able to connect, to reconnect with somebody on my list thanks to an episode. So it's a real asset. It doesn't have to be live. It doesn't have to be consumed on Apple or Spotify because these platforms, they want to grow their audience. They want the listeners to stay there and binge content. Right? If you want the podcast to work for you. Sure, you should be there. Sure you should have show notes. This is great for SEO and all that stuff, but you also have to repurpose it on a platform, whether this is your website or a pod page or something like that, where you have control over what is happening next. That's where you connect with the listener, right? So that's, that's that's basically the I want to say when we do this test. And she told me like she booked and she bought I'm like what like in one week, you know, like we did this thing and I'm like, she's like, I, she's willing to pay for a service just for that. If somebody imagine if you can give one client a month like this to a client by putting this strategy, then now she can see it's coming from this episode. Number one twenty five. Right. You see what I mean? So now you can reverse engineer and say like, okay, I know this episode works, how can I continue to repurpose that. Right. So and I think that's how you really come up with a strategy that is going to work, work long term. Do you think she wants to keep podcasting? Oh yes. She's much more strategic about what she talks about now. Right. Because she's like, what do they need to hear? And it's okay, again, to have those episodes where you want to talk about something because it needs to come out. It's your way to express, you know, your views. You know, people need to see your values. And if you're funny and all that stuff, sure. But it's also it can it also needs to be very, very strategic. If you want to attract those people you know, for business. What's interesting, and the thing that I've pulled from this too, is that in so many cases, we talk about how like we in large part look at podcasting as content creation. I mean, because as you know, you can create the email from it, the blog from it, you can create all the social clips from it and everything like that. What? And it's nice because they all kind of feed each other. If you send the email, you're like, hey, go check out the video. And in the video you're like, hey, go listen to this in the car also, and scroll us while you're sitting in the bathroom. All these other things. I didn't even think of the hey, this episode from six months ago may apply to what you're doing now. Um, go ahead and send that directly to the person as part of the CRM to say, look, here's an update for you. Um, that's a very interesting attitude about that. I love that and that once again, too, it is that added way to bring people in and to keep them in your ecosystem, to keep them interested, keep them, I guess I would say keep them perked up to knowing what you're doing. Yeah, that's a wonderful way to to look at that. When you talked about like how there's been times where it specifically brought clients in. Other than that, like looking at the return on investment from it. Um, is that the main way that you gauge that, like looking at like these five people have told us that they've come on as a podcast, but how do you justify the return on investment for, let's say, your show? Um, other than that one specific instance where, I mean, are you seeing that quite often or is there other, I guess, are there other telltale signs that people can look for to say, oh, I'm pretty sure that came in from the podcast. Yeah. So I mean, you, you know, my my background, like logical, like I was a, uh, you know, creating automations and things like that. So I, we, we really love marketing automation, like marketing automation, but like behavioral automation also, which is, you know, like based on what you do and what you don't do. So, um, when you look at it from, from that purpose, basically, um, the idea is that. If you, if you can have metrics, if you can measure your you can see everything as an experiment. Right. Let's run an experiment. And, um, this is what we expect. You know, we're going to run this. We're going to put this episode in front of X number of people. Right. Let's see how many get into our list. Right. And then from there, how many, you know, actually open the email. And then, you know, so if you put the metrics in place, if you put the KPIs right, then you're going to know if I put this amount of money, you know, now I can afford to put two hundred, three hundred, five hundred into producing an episode because I know that on average, you know, I get this right. So for example, the numbers that we have is like, um, I think per week. Oh gosh, I can't remember like twenty leads. Like it's basically what it is showing is that you don't need a lot of downloads. Sure. If you're in front of the right people. Right. People think they have to. They go after downloads because that's the metric that everybody feel they they control. We don't even know if they're correct. Right. But basically like if you get say, twenty leads per week and on those twenty leads there are five people that book a call and you sell two. That's all that you need if you're doing high ticket. Right. So I agree is that work is going to be the number that works for your business. My the person like my client, like who is now a client. Like she doesn't need a lot. She doesn't she doesn't want her calendar to be filled with calls. She doesn't need that many, but she needs good one. Pre-qualified, right. It's funny. I talk like we talked earlier about the pre-qualified thing. It's. It's the right people. Um, the other thing I always tell people, too, when it comes to those downloads, if I told, I always say, if I told you there was ten people in the next room that were really excited to hear from you, would you go talk to them? And people are like, well, yeah. And I'm like, that's the same as the ten downloads. Um, it's the same thing. It's it's ten people that want to hear from you. So I was like, yeah, you have to push through that. People need to realize something like, it's just like we were looking at numbers because, you know, we're working on content and people want to see numbers. And I was actually quite shocked. I knew it was low, but I didn't know it was that low. And I believe I hope I'm not making a mistake here. I'll share it later with you. Fifty percent of the podcasts have thirty downloads or less. Yes, I have seen that stat also. Okay, so that's what it means. It's like don't go after volume unless you want to run ads and you want sponsors, right? But if we start to compare the big guns like what they do and where the first three minutes are just ads and ads and ads on different products they promote, that's how they make their money. That's not how we need to run our podcast at our level for what we want to do, because we have a very different purpose. So podcasting with purpose and having a strategy, I think is the key. And you have to create your own metrics. What are what success means to you? You know, for your podcast we all have different definition of that. I, I truly love that. I've heard the the old saying, comparison is the thief of joy. And everyone sees, like you said, the big podcasters. And they're like, I want three million downloads and I'm like, no, I want three people that will write checks. That's that is the big difference. I want three people that want to do a podcast and want, I mean, want to do it right? I don't need three million, I need three, and that that's what we look for. Um, since you've been doing this and since you've had your podcast, what's the top thing that you think that you've learned in doing yours? Um, that where you've like, oh, I didn't realize that was going to be a thing when you started this. Um, so first, when I started it, like I said, it was more like a dare. So I didn't want like, the podcasting was a, um, a repurposing thing, right? I'm like, what am I going to do with this thing? I might as well do, you know, do this. And I guess what I learned, you know, it's like Anything that you do for a certain amount of time, like you find out if that's something that you truly enjoy and want to keep doing, or if it's something that's not aligned. Again, if it's not aligned with your vision and what you want to do, eventually momentum is going to to die down. Sure. And it's not going to be sustainable. So really, really always important to do the things that you love, even if sometimes we have to do things that we don't love. But I mean, the general direction like, yeah, like if you hate being on video and you're scared, don't go anywhere and do videos. It's going to be really, really hard to get started, right? To get your motivation. And I think it's the same for podcasting, right? So that's the first thing that I learned is that really listen for the signs. Are you still excited? You know, doing it after all this, you know, so many episodes or is that something that you're doing like as a hobby, like you said. So if we if we talk about like the hobby thing, I think some people started doing it doing a podcast to grow their business, but without a strategy. And now it turned into a hobby, right? It's funny you say that because, uh, I mean, for me, like conversations like this, I truly love I enjoy the opportunity to sit down and learn and have these types of conversations. And I see that with some of the business owners that we work with, they're like, okay, I've got to create marketing material, whatever. We'll do a podcast. But I see like some of the good ones, a couple episodes in, they're like, they're really they're really excited about it. They're like, this was a lot of fun. I. And I mean, it's for me, I get to create marketing content and have fun and learn while I'm doing it. Yeah. Yeah. This this is a pretty good deal. Uh. This this is a really good deal for me to do this. That being said, there's if someone is, there's a time that someone is, uh. Thinking I should do a podcast, but they're on the fence. Whether it's a small business owner or medium business owner, marketing manager, someone that just wants to create their own content, tell their story. This is the question I always love to ask people. What would you tell them as like your top piece of advice? And it can't just be just press record. That's lame. And we joke about that, um, it's useless. Press record is useless. Right? So what is the what is the top piece of advice that you're going to tell people when it comes to creating, starting to create that podcast? Yeah. So I mean, it's not just for podcasting, but let's just say for podcasting. If you've had this idea of starting a podcast and it hasn't happened, you have two choices. You shelve it and you stop thinking about it because it's mental space or you're like, let me create an experiment and figure this out. If it's going to work, if I'm going to like it, say you're going to do a season because a lot of people don't start because they feel like, what if I run out of things to say? Yeah, well, if you're talking about something you're passionate about, you want because you can bring in guests. There are like so many ways, right? But let's say you do a season that way. It allows you to have like a set time. I'm going to do ten fifteen episodes. Okay. Then you reverse engineer. Why do I want a podcast? What is my objective here? Okay. From there, what are ten fifteen topics that I can talk about? Where I can share my point of view, my unique point of view that might upset some people, and where there might be some people that say, hey, actually, I think like her, I kind of like her, right? Or him and do that right now. A lot of people I know get a bit worried about the tech, like the sound. Of course the sound is important, you know, and all that stuff. And that's why you want accelerator. You want people like you, right to say, because this is what you do. This is an accelerator right now. Speed matters more than any time like in twenty twenty six. Like, right. You have to be like, do it, try it or shelve it, but don't let it take mental space, right? Because we only have so much. So that's my advice. And like and if you're like but the tech I'm not exactly sure. Do I have the right mic. Like yeah. Do I need to buy the thing like work with an expert, an expert? Accelerate. Get this look at what do you want to measure. Right. And then at the end of the experiment look at it like did you enjoy doing it? Did it bring you any leads? I bet if you have a strategy and if you do that what we talked about, you will. Of course we need to talk about quality of content, right. You need to talk about something that you're really good at. Like it sounds like obvious, but like if you put this that structure, that infrastructure, and if you surround yourself with people that are going to tell you, I've done it plenty of times, I take care of the tech. You focus on what do you need to talk about? And your zone of genius, your unique brilliance, right? What do they need to hear? And that's that unique opportunity where you don't have to be a writer. Then we can talk about you just press record, but you just press record when you've done all of that. I love that, that is. And to me, the either shelve it or do it, um, is not only just podcasting advice. That is phenomenal business and life advice. Yeah. Um, it really is. Yeah. I would add one more thing is that yeah, when you procrastinate and I've procrastinated like, oh, I don't think we have time, but I wish we had. But like if you find yourself procrastinating about it, it could be a sign that that's not something that deep down you want to do. Maybe you're like, I see other people being successful with the podcast. I want to have a podcast, but maybe deep dive, deep down you don't. I've seen this from memberships. I've fought through it myself for memberships because I've built a lot. I don't have mine, and people try to convince me that I needed to have one. I don't because I've been procrastinating about it and deep down I don't want to have one. And that's okay, right? So it's it's a sign when you're excited about something and it's aligned with like what you really, really want to do. We find a way, right? When we procrastinate as soon as we get into a hurdle, that's maybe a sign to listen. Like, is this what I really, really want to do? I love that. That being said, where can people find you, find more information about you? Where would you like people to go? Yeah. So I think the best way to find me would be at the membership lab. So the membership lab. Com and uh, also they can find me on podcast. Com that's where we do the podcasting stuff with the awesome. Um, yeah. Otherwise I'm on LinkedIn with my name. Wonderful. We will put all that information in the show notes. Natalie, thank you so much for all the information today. I know I pulled a lot from it. Thank you so much for having me. Everyone else guys I got once again she gave me some bits a bit to digest. Here I am going to think about this and I'll be right back in just a moment with the summary. Natalie brought up some stuff that it's so interesting. There's so many things that we hear in podcasting all the time, but we don't always know how to put those pieces in place. The direct email piece like, hey, if you find someone is in a certain spot on their journey and you've intentionally built an episode that can talk to people that are in that spot in that journey, Holy cow, email it to them. It can be two years old. It could be four years. It could be five years old. Send that to them. It is still relevant. I absolutely love that piece and it's something that I so often forget, especially as, I mean, look, I'm the business owner. I'm busy doing so many other things. There's all these other episodes out here that very simply are so easy to, hey, this made me think of you. Send it to him, have your marketing team send it to him. What? Have a clip that you tag them in and say, hey, I saw this and thought you should you should check this out. I know you're at this spot. What a brilliant, brilliant way to to keep that content working for you. So many times we get stuck in an area of podcasting where it's all about next week's episode. You need to keep creating content. That's how you're going to stay relevant, but in the same sense, make sure you don't forget about last week's episode, or the week before or the year before. Those episodes are still hugely valuable. And as I said, while Natalie and I were talking, I find that they're still episodes that are getting downloads that are a year or two years old and it's across the board. It doesn't matter which podcast it is, it could be mine. It could be the business, it could be one of our clients podcasts. We consistently see older episodes getting downloaded. There's people that are going to go back and be like, hey, I really like what these people have to say. They're going to binge it. How many times have you found an old TV show that you liked and you're like, you know what, I'm going to start from the beginning and listen to this thing. The or watch this thing the whole way through. People are doing the same thing with podcasts. Once again, you're creating content that is evergreen, and so often we forget that that is there. And when you neglect it, it is kind of just going to sit there. So don't be afraid to go back a number of episodes and bring that up and put that in front of the people that need to hear and see it. Additionally, if you're intentional about what you're saying in those and how you've built those, it's once again, it's something where you know that this is directed at person A too many cases. We see people that are podcasting just to put content out, and they don't have that audience in mind, and they don't have that pain point in mind. What problem are you solving? They haven't thought about that. And you need to talk about the pain point that you solve. Talk about how you solve it, and think very intentionally about where that fits into your sales funnel and talk about it at that point. I love the piece because it was like she was speaking to me about saying, look, maybe you're talking to people about getting them to do an introductory call. That's what we do with our fifteen minute no, no pitch podcast consult. It's an introductory call. We're we're going to get your email address. We hope we don't make you do it. But once again, it is it's that top of funnel. I know exactly where that's at. And that's to to start that process of that know like and trust and that's building knowledge for you. So that way you know how to be effective in a podcast. And we can be effective for you as producers, as Coaches as as repurposing, as content repurposing. We can work well with you in all those specific areas. This one was another really, really good one. I'm so glad that I talked with Natalie. That was through pod match. We found each other through there. It's been a great resource. That being said, we would love to be a great resource for you. Do me a favor, click on any of the links below. We'd love to talk to you. Go into the discord. We'd love to chat with you there too. I'd also like to tell you take care of yourself. You can take care of someone else too. I will see you very, very soon.