Building Community & Brand Authority Through Podcasting with Ande Lyons

Are you obsessed with download numbers? It’s time to shift your focus. In this episode of Podcasting Momentum, we are joined by the vibrant Ande Lyons, a veteran podcaster since 2012 and host of "Don't Be Caged By Your Age."

Ande shares her incredible journey of brand building with podcasting, moving from the startup ecosystem to the pro-aging space. We dive deep into why "listening is an act of leadership," how to turn passive listeners into an active community by giving them an identity, and why niching down is the secret weapon for business growth. Whether you are looking for podcast lead generation strategies or simply want to become a better host, Ande’s energy and insights on "edutainment" are not to be missed.

Key Topics:

• How to pivot into a new industry using a podcast.
• Why you should name your community (not just your show).
• The ROI of podcast guesting vs. hosting.
• Overcoming the "ego" barrier to create authentic content.

Connect with Ande Lyons:

• Don't Be Caged By Your Age: https://www.dontbecagedbyyourage.com/
• Ande Lyons: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andelyons/

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Transcript

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Occasionally you find someone as a podcast guest where you're just like, you know what? This person's energy is just going to be off the charts and I'm going to have a tough time keeping up. Yes, I am going to have a tough time keeping up. Thankfully, I did, and we came out with a great episode with some really interesting tidbits on how to build a community with your podcast. Stay tuned. Ande, I appreciate you coming on today. Um, like I said, when when we talked off the air where I was like, as soon as I saw you and your podcast and your energy, I'm like, yep, we're going to talk. Yay! It's my favorite topic. You I my my favorite topic is me also. I love this. I absolutely love this. Um, you've podcast you've been podcasting since twenty twelve. Um, that's a while. I'm not going to do the math on that, because I don't want to embarrass myself or anyone else in the room. Um, your current mission is, like, deeply personal now. It's like shattering ageism and age barriers. How did you go from, like, the business coach to the pro-aging space and, like, how have you, like, how have you been brand building in that way with a podcast in this completely new niche for you? Well, this is the beauty of podcasting. So anyone tuning in who wants to switch to a new industry, a different lane that they are used to being in, launch a podcast. It's just in time learning. You're going to interview experts in your category, and it's amazing how quickly that levels up your social cred, your social proof for what you're doing. Meanwhile, you're gleaning and picking out and have all these great takeaways from your guests that you can then use for your own clients and customers, whatever it is that you need. I mean, podcasting is brilliant. And also, if you wanted to talk to experts in your field, they would never return your email or your call. But with a podcast, they're going to go. If they don't say yes, they're people are going to say yes because they know they need to get them out in. I absolutely love that. If they're not smart enough to say yes, they're people will tell them to say yes. So when I first launched my podcast, I had a wonderful platform helping long term couples stay tuned in and turned on with each other. Right? Because that's some of the things that can fade year after year. It was called Bring Back Desire. Some great conversations and I wanted to interview experts in the field and also some erotic romance writers. And I thought that would be great, but I was terrified. So I had someone like you holding my hand for the first fifty two weeks. And I did a podcast every week. I interviewed two guests, and at the end of that fifty two weeks, I felt confident and pro enough to go ahead and do it all on my own. And so I went from having it produced by someone to at the time was Blogtalk radio. I had produced my own show there for a while. I was involved on Google+ a lot with live streaming. I'd have a live show with about five guests in the expert category. It was wild. It was the Wild West. But I have to tell you, you worked really hard back then to do a podcast today. It's so much easier. And then soon after that, around twenty fourteen or so, I just kept noticing so much bad advice happening online for launching a business. They weren't talking about creating a minimum viable product, an MVP and and all of that. It was like these marketing memes. It was like multi-level marketing. Thought that was how you launched a business. And so I switched because I have launched many businesses from VC backed to private equity backed to my charming personality backed. And so I wanted to start helping newly minted founders, people who were making that transition from employee to employer and help them get through that awkward first twelve to eighteen months transition, both mindset and what you needed to have your thumb on the pulse on. So that's when I started doing Startup Life show. And then and I did that for years, and I had a monthly pitch event in Boston. I was really entrenched in the startup ecosystem and then Covid hit. So I said, well, as an extrovert, I need my batteries charged. What am I gonna do in lockdown? And so I was on the platform, StreamYard and you could stream live across all the platforms. I was like, Hallelujah, you can have comments popping up and there's this back and forth. And so I spent the next three years interviewing diverse founders from around the world two times a week live. And I have to tell you, I thought I was nervous, you know, going just having that first year, the first fifty two episodes going live, boy, it just removes any kind of getting upset quickly. If anything is isn't perfect out of you, it just dissolves all of that because technology is going to let you down. The the person you're interviewing, all sorts of things can go wrong and you are live and there's nothing you can do about it. But keep moving forward, keeping the conversation going. And I'm telling you, for the older brain to be managing a live stream where you've got your guest, you've got your audience, you've got comments, you're putting things up on the screen, you're doing all the things. It was great. And so then and so then that led me to answer your question. How did I go from twenty twelve to where I am today with my current podcast called Don't Be Caged By Your Age? I came out in twenty twenty two with my age because I noticed that especially in the startup ecosystem and especially with women, they were all afraid to say their age. I was afraid to let anybody know that I had shoes older than them. I had, you know, a bill that could be their grandparent. Right? You know, I just was so afraid they wouldn't respect me, I wouldn't have any credibility. So I wrote a post on LinkedIn called Don't Be Caged By Your Age, and I held up the route sixty six sign from the US that goes from Chicago to San Diego. And the look on my face, I have it pinned on my LinkedIn profile. The look on my face says, Will you still love me now that you know? Or will you still respect me now that you know I'm sixty six and so friggin old. And that's where I heard so many stories of people who were either struggling with getting work after the age of sixty, or who had found pathways to fuel their purpose, passion, and pocketbook. But I knew I needed a palate cleanser between startup ecosystem right in that whole world, and going on to don't be caged by your age. So I did a thirty episode season that made me happy and called your Ink Story, and I interviewed folks about their tattoos. And because at such a time, we were all struggling in twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four to find commonality. And tattoos are all about the human journey. So no matter where you are, you have lost a loved one. You have a favorite pet, you have a saying that keeps you going. Whatever. A favorite music band. It was a wonderful thing. I don't have any tattoos. I'm just I was always curious about why people had tattoos. And then, um, in March of twenty twenty four, I launched Don't Be Caged By Your Age, where I work on those indoctrinated beliefs that we have that stop us and prevent us from pursuing things because we think we're too old, or we're almost embarrassed that we're too old, that we age. I'm sorry I aged, I got older, you know, there's there's so much pressure. Everything is anti aging in the world and everything is about youth, youth, youth. We need to flip the script and talk about Pro-aging. I know that was a long story. Everyone. I know I love it, I absolutely love it. And it's funny because I feel like when you said that you were an extrovert. Um, no one in the audience was surprised. Is, uh, between the the the the just vibrance when you speak and the way you present. It's it's it's awesome that, uh, like I said, there was no questions about you being an extrovert in there. None whatsoever. Uh, to me also, that's part of what makes you easy to engage with, easy to work with. And it's once again, it's that podcasting platform thing of like, easy to listen to. Uh, we've all been around the people where you're like, wow, they have all the personality of this computer mouse. Um, not always the greatest podcast host. Uh, no. And also not the greatest podcast guest. No. And I think as podcast host, we go through, there's this I'm going to be coming out with a post on it, which is the, um, invisible, uh, burden that they, we don't really talk about, which is holding the space for having guests that will provide meaning and context for our listeners. It's really, really hard as a podcast host. Um, when you get pitched and you want to have people on, but you go and you watch them and you just know your listeners won't be entertained by that. Ooh, edutainment. I like that word. That being said, it's interesting and I'll take a little bit of a left turn here because in in doing doing my due diligence, um, I see two sides here because I know there's always times as podcast hosts, we're like, crap, I am out of episodes that I have in the can. I just need someone with a pulse so I can put out a show. Next week we've all been there. We're all like, oh no, the world is going to end. I mean, you've had some really, really good guests on your show. I mean, I watched the past couple that I watched were, I mean, once again, people that very well fit with you. They're vibrant, they're excited. They've got something wonderful. Like what is your process now for vetting those people? And I mean, I realize that we can always miss. It's the same as hiring a person. You can you and we've all done this where we're like, oh, I know this person. They're going to be great. And they come in and you're like, uh oh, that that didn't go. But what? Like, what are you typically looking for when you're vetting someone to have them on as a guest? I'm looking for several things, Josh. I'm looking for someone who is going to be able to give me information and my listeners information that will be valuable for them, and a little fascinating, too. So the fact that I interviewed people who are primarily sixty five plus, we do need to tap into a little bit of their background, right? And so we get some fun stories. I used to be a bouncer at studio fifty two or whatever. Um, it's some fascinating stories, but also then bringing in. How have they figured it out? You know, what are they doing? Because representation is so important. If you're seeing someone who figured it out after the age of sixty five, you can start then getting sparked for your own ideas. So they have to have something I think will be interesting enough for my listener. Uh, then they need to be able to convey it. So I go and watch or listen to podcasts or videos that they've been on to see how they are at getting their concepts across. You'd be surprised at how many people cannot say a complete sentence. No, I'm not surprised. And so yes, you can get five minutes into an interview with someone going, I do not have the time to edit this. I mean, my editing people do not have the time to edit this. This will never work. And, um, and it's not necessarily if they're, uh Edutaining they they really need to be able to take us on a journey. Storytelling is everything. And so I had a very quiet gentleman on the show, but his storytelling capability was so wonderful that my listeners went wild over him. And so, um, that was a good fit. But I've even done the pre-check. I don't always do a pre-check. If I've already done my due diligence, I can just book them. We don't have to have a conversation. But I even had a conversation with someone who was a CEO and a founder of her business, had a stunning career, and I thought this. And then we had a talk. I go, she's going to be great. We start interviewing. I had to end up emailing her later saying, we won't be using your episode. It happens, it happens. It's not easy to say that to someone. No, it's tough. It is that. And speaking you mentioned like what's going to resonate with your audience. What's going to learn something with your audience. And you said like community outlives downloads? Yes. What is a way that you've turned listeners into community members? And I realized that You're the age builds in a community there in terms of like, look, we all have something in common, but how have you worked to make sure that that's the thing that locks everyone together? I guess I would say, well, I think when you are on purpose with your why for why you are podcasting, you'll it'll never be about the downloads. Those are just all vanity numbers. And we all suffer from that, right? We all suffer from the I look at it, I look at it, of course. Um, you know that that it's not about whether Apple's happy with you, Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you're you're posting it is that powerful human connection from your human voice to their human ear. And so in building community, your listeners don't ever really get to know each other that well, but they feel like they're part of it because you welcome them in and you can do something by giving your community a name. So I've just started to call them all pro agers. Hey pro ager, how are you doing? What? You know, to just help them be feel like they're part of something. And this way they feel like they're collaborating with you on trying to find ways and pathways. But one of the really cool side benefits of don't be caged by your age that I did not foresee or expect. Josh is all the folks who are in their late forties and 50s who are pinging me and saying, oh my gosh, Ande, I've. I never thought I'd be so excited about getting old because I'm hearing these stories and and oh my gosh, these people like I didn't know the sixties and 70s and 80s were filled with so much opportunity. I thought, if I don't nail it now, I'll never be able to nail it, right? Sure, it's opened them up to the to not feel so rushed in pursuing dreams and trying to get everything figured out quickly because the clock is ticking and it's going to strike midnight on sixty five and that'll be it. I'll be out in the pastures with the horses. Oh my gosh. You know, we're not we're not horses. Pastures. Pastures are made for horses but not us, right. So, um, not humans. So to me and so, so as you talk to each person, and this was a big tip I just learned over the last year was to not say listeners, it's listener. You're talking to that one person every time. That was a you'd think after thirteen plus years in doing this. Yeah, I would have known that. Nope. Always learning as you go along. Uh, so I think that's what helps build community. And speaking of community, that was one of the things that I did as a person aging. Anyone who's listening, who's over sixty, you know how hard it is to find new friends, new community, because frankly, you don't know how much time you've got left and you want to be really discerning with who you spend your time with. And so I loved my experience at Podfest so much. It's our annual Indie Podcaster event held every January that I wanted to create create something like that here. And I knew from having had a monthly pitch event that when you let people know you are going to be at the same place at the same time every month, it builds trust. So I said, okay, I want to have an event every month. I'm going to call it the New England Podcasters Group because I wanted it to be bigger than just Massachusetts, where I lived, or the city of Boston. And I am going to be at this Location every second Saturday of the month at twelve noon, and I'm bringing a featured speaker with me. Why? So that if nobody else shows up, we're going to have a good time. But also, again, to add value to anybody who makes the drive and carves out time. But most importantly, Josh, I did it because I was so tired of online community. And I know that sounds terrible, but honestly, in the day of AI, you need those moments, those touch points, even if it's just once or twice a year where you are looking your peers in the eyes and you're sharing those side conversations and you're having those moments, and I call it hurling hugging in real life. And it there's just nothing like it. And now I'm in my, you know, we're just finishing almost two years of meeting every single month and building this incredible community of podcasters. And I'm seeing like this is important to them, that they carve out the fact they carve out time on a Saturday and drive an hour or two hours to come hang out for two hours, and then they got to turn around and drive back. Some of them even two and a half hours. It shows how important that in-person connection is. So that's also another way of building community. And selfishly, for me, now that I'm sixty nine, it's so important. Intergenerationally right. To be the oldest person in the room and be happy about it and be confident about it, because that's the fastest way to dissolve. Ageism is for people to see you in the room vibrant, alive, contributing, connecting, collaborating, adding value, and all of a sudden what they're indoctrinated expectations of what they should be doing shifts as they age. It's interesting because as you talked about the people in their forties and 50s that are like, oh, it's done. The clock is ticking. It's funny, I'm forty seven right now. Um, I take inspiration. My father is eighty and, uh, he still races his car, so. Right. There's you don't you don't need to stop. You can just keep right on trucking. You can do the things that you want to whenever you want to. And there's new things that pop up. Yeah, I totally get all that, and I. I love the fact that you're encouraging people to do that, because to me, like, we there's no point in waiting around for something to happen. Go out and make it happen. So I, I, I love that when I was, when I was researching for don't be caged by your age as we do. Yeah. You know, for before we launch, I learned that the World Health Organization has called retirement an epidemic, costing societies like the US, England, Australia, Canada billions of dollars. Because what do you do then? Nobody's talking about what you do, even if you have the funds to go and play golf day after day or go travel around the world. You get bored of that after a certain point in time, and you need a reason to get out of bed. And as much as we love taking care of grandkids, that's not good for your brain. And the studies have come out right recently to say that, too. So you got to you got to keep that spark of interest going. And so each person I talked to, whether they've got one eye, one leg, whatever, I mean, you know, they have folks who have figured it out. It's so cool. I love that with that you're talking about good for your brain. So I want to dive into like the the what's been the impact for you because I know you guest on a fair number of podcasts. I can I can tell you just truly enjoy this. I really do. This is this is one of those things. This is the gas that gets you up in the morning in some cases. But really, other than just like the the fact that you enjoy it. What are some of the like what's some of the return on investment that you get by being a guest. What are what are some of the things that you've had come back? What are some of the other things that you've had by being a guest on other shows? That is such a good question, Josh, because I have always identified as the host. Right? And so because I've got almost a thousand episodes as a host, um, under my tiara, but as a guest, first of all, it's just such a relief. I just have to show up, entertain, and that's it. So for me, it's like we I get to slip into my seat, come in, add value to you, to your listeners, to my best to make sure that they are getting a little spark of interest and some passion and some good vibes. I don't have to edit. I don't have to do the artwork. I don't have to come up with the title. It's very lovely. But I also love to bring my joy, my deliciousness, my anti licious, as we like to call it. Um, to you, the host, to your listeners, your audience. And of course, there are the tactical benefits, everyone for guesting, which is that Josh will carry links to both Don't Be Caged By Your Age and New England podcasters group um on his episode, so that bounce back link back is still very, very important for our work in the world. It also gives me an opportunity when you send me the promo pieces that I can share out in the world, that it provides social proof. Oh, Ande just got interviewed on podcasting momentum. Wow. And again, subliminally, that connection is made. Ande podcasting. Ande. Guest Ande it's the same thing that social proof of what you are passionate about in the world is why folks love to be guests and why many of us host get pitched all the time from the PR folks. Um, And to get on a podcast. And also it's carried in ways that you cannot reach people normally. So podcasting, you know, certainly on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, Amazon, iHeart, but in other ways and other ways that people share it. And and finally, tactically, it's borrowing an audience one hundred percent. So yeah, my being a guest on your show is that I get to meet a whole slew of new people. Ha! And I'm so happy to meet you virtually in your ear. Um, so that's wonderful too. But at the end of the day, for me, it's been especially about podcasting. It's, gosh, just to share my passion. It is the most cost effective way for anybody to be creative, in my humble opinion. Podcasting. I, I, I love that that's a great saying. I may have to to to talk about that one a little bit later. I want to go into a saying that you have that I think is just brilliant. Um, listening is an act of leadership. Um, how like how do you feel like as a host? I know so many times. And I mean, look, I feel like there's some there's always got to be back and forth. It can't just be one like me asking a single, single question. That's one sentence long and letting you go off to the races for two and a half hours in the same sense. I'm here to listen, to learn from you, to learn about your journey. Uh, like, is there a time where you're like, where you felt like, hey, if I would have interrupted that person, I wouldn't have gotten this next bit? Or where is like, where did you come up with I guess, first off, where did you come up with that saying? And second off, like like what's cemented it for you? Well, I came up with that saying, thank you for asking. I was on a panel for the future. For a future of Aging event here in Boston, and it was Future of Aging in the media. Okay. And so I was talking about why podcasting is so important in the future of aging. And again, just going diving deeper, pulling on that thread, I looked at what was so important about the act of listening and that as a host, it is leadership. As you move a guest along the story arc of your podcast, because just like anything you write, there has to be a beginning, a middle and an end. You're taking everybody on a journey. But that listening is key, but that the connection is also key. So that is all part of the leadership of being the host. And you are absolutely right. If you hadn't said tell me more or what did you mean? Or what was that like for you, you wouldn't have had your guest pull on a thread that revealed so much more so that you could sit back and go, oh my gosh, I'm so happy I created this space for them to share that, which just gave me goosebumps, right? And that said, of course, um, most of what I tend to say can easily end up on the editing floor, but sometimes it's because I, I share a little side story with my guests that I know my listeners won't be hearing to help them feel more connected and relaxed with me and that human connection, so that they then share even more. And I just knock that story out because who wants to hear that story either again or ever? And but that's the beauty of not going live. Everyone. You can edit that out. But it's again, how do you establish rapport with your guest without using leadership skills, right? Sure. I always say it's like, as the host, it's your job to I compare being a host to being the captain of a ship, or being like the Pope or someone like that. You are the leader of this. You're not the one doing all the things, but you're kind of guiding where this should go. Um, the captain doesn't necessarily have his hand on the tiller. The captain is the one. Just saying. Okay, we need to be faster. We need to be slower. We need to drive this direction, that direction, uh, things of that nature. Well, and, Josh, here's a little pro tip for anyone who is a guest, and they have a host who is all over the place. And I've given this tip out for forever. Manage up. You come into your interview with three things you want to make sure you get across in the conversation so that if you have a host that is not like Josh, who is brilliantly taking you and me on this great journey, um, you can then take control and make sure, because you and I have both been on podcasts where the host did not shut up. You're like, oh boy. I actually flipped it one time because it was so bad. I started interviewing them, really, and then that kind of thing. Same. And it's usually from what I have found, it's usually the ones. The ones that don't listen are usually the ones that have that are cranking out three or four episodes a week. Um, they have no questions. They're just like, hey, so when you show up, they're like, so what do you do? Um, you know, stuff. I also do things. Um, what is this is going to take me from a leadership standpoint. Um, in I host, a co-host another podcast called The Business Fix, where we largely talk about business leadership, and we also largely talk about like, hey, like, being a leader is just all about like, taking your ego down a notch every single day about so many things. What do you think is the biggest ego thing that gets in the way of most podcasters when they start. Oh, they're so worried about how it looks. You're so worried about their voice. They're so worried about all the things. Instead of going right back to the human connection and the why? Sure. The big why? Why are you opening your mouth? Why are you up to a mic? What is it that. How do you want to help the world? How do you want to impact the world? And if your ego is about it being perfect, about you sounding knowledgeable in every perfect way, um, you're going to stumble and it's going to be ineffective, and it's going to get in your way of a real experience. And boy, what folks are what platforms are learning today, Josh, about AI, meta, LinkedIn, all of them is that we are humans. We don't want AI. Sometimes we like to be delighted. Oh, that was funny. No, we want authenticity. And I know that's an overused word, but we really do want the human saying the human stuff. As only humans can do. And so the ego gets in the way of how we are worried about being perceived. Oh my gosh, what if I make a mistake? You know, all of that. Your listeners don't care as long as you've got good audio and your conversation is heartfelt and you really care, you're going to get going and you're going to get better and better and better. And please give yourself grace for those those first twenty episodes. We all go through it. It is just part of the training wheels. Just like when you learned how to ride the bike, you had to have them watching you on those training wheels on that bike. The first time very wobbly, but you get there and you become a pro bike rider, right? Same thing with podcasting. You're going to get better. get him out of the way as soon as possible. Don't give up after eight episodes. Keep going because your voice gets better, you get more relaxed, and then the conversations and the connections get better. And obviously don't worry about those downloads because they just don't matter. It really is the connection even with one other person. And then that one person goes on and shares something that they learned from you. That ripple effect is profound. It is. It's funny. You've very much echoed, uh, we had Katie Fox from, uh, Ecamm live a few weeks ago, and then, uh, Kendall Brightman and both of them basically said it was one was Embrace the Suck, and the other was embrace the cringe, like, you're going to be terrible. Uh, the example that I always like to go to is that like the I've used the bicycle example myself. Um, the first time that I've ever done anything, I was never, like, top tier. Everyone sees the Joe Rogan's and they think, I'm going to be good, I'm going to be this level, and I'm going to. They set all these expectations. And I like realized that if I stepped onto the NBA court with LeBron, it's probably not going to end well for me. Um, I'd come up to his belly button first of all, but. How's the weather up there right now? But you're absolutely right, Josh. And we've used this a lot. This example, if you were in the room with twenty people sharing your wisdom, you'd be like, there's a big crowd here. I say that all the time. I love that you said that because of the example that I use sometimes is if I told you there's eight people in the room next door, would you go over and talk to them? And people are like, well, yeah. And like, well, why don't you why won't you upload your podcast for those eight downloads? Right. Um, it's the it's no different. No different. Um, it's just the fact that they're listening to you in the car instead of sitting in the same room. And here's a number for you. I think what I learned just at podfest was eighty percent of podcasts have one hundred or less downloads. Mhm. Correct. Okay. So you know my gosh organically if you can get that it's amazing. And and that's why your why has to be about who are you impacting. And also how is it serving you. Your podcast really needs to serve you. I feel that way about businesses too of course. Sure. Um, that. Yes, you're here to serve the world. But how is it serving you? Even if you don't ever make money at it, whatever. It is an expressive outlet of who you are. You are just so unique. And as Seth Godin always said, sure, it's been done before, but not by you and not for us. Take that in. That's what makes you so unique in delivering what you're going to deliver to the people who want it delivered by you. That's very good. I there was a gentleman that, uh, I interviewed before who was, uh, Nick Comstock. Um, he's here in Ohio. He's down by Columbus, um, developmentally disabled, um, charismatic. Uh, I mean, just super charismatic in his delivery. Wonderful, wonderful guy. And he said, there's a lot of voices out there, but no one has your voice. And when he said that, I was like, Holy cow. Um, the the last two that we'll get to here, as you mentioned, authenticity and authenticity is like going into twenty twenty six is what the entire podcasting industry, everyone in the industry is saying. What are you leaning into for twenty twenty six for your podcast? I am actually going to be bringing in for me personally. I want to bring in more. I don't want to say, well, I guess I'm gonna have to call them luminaries. Um, so I want to bring in more, Uh, folks who have really put a stake in the ground around Pro-aging. So that would be Laura Geller, for example, Laura Geller makeup or, um, uh, Chef Babette. She's seventy five and doing amazing things. Uh, maybe full of regrets, which is a wonderful drag queen deliciousness. Who sits there with her pearls and dressed like his dresses, like his nineteen sixty five and does incredible, incredible comedy. Um, you know. So there. And hey, I'm totally open to Jamie Lee Curtis, but I don't need that level. I just want to, you know, bring in a few more of the, um, better known folks because they do share some really great stories, provided, of course, it's their storytelling time. And so I'd like to Interweave those. That level of story of fascination, right, with the everyday folks who are figuring it out. And so for me, as a seasoned host, it's a little easier for me to bring on not just a luminary, but also the everyday person because I can guide them provided they know how to tell a story, I can guide them through the conversation so that my listeners can see they're just like me, and they figured it out. And look how they're they're fueling their passion, their purpose and their pocketbook in their seventies, 80s and beyond. I love that. That's awesome. And to me, it's the just the support of humans to begin with is really cool. And once again, it's bringing those higher level stories and delivering those to everyone because once again, those people have stories, even the higher level guests. They have stories that not everyone knows, and they've got pieces that are sometimes curated. And when you have these actual conversations with them him instead of a PR release story, it can be so much better. That being said, if a business, maybe a marketing department has just started a podcast, what is your number one recommendation for them to do in order to grow? Wow. So our solopreneur or an actual population, you know, twenty five people, any one of them, and they're a business launching a podcast? Well, absolutely. Be in your lane. Don't try to step out of your lane. Stay completely there. Niche down, niche down, niche down. And then keep it sweet and simple so that and I'm not. I'm most business podcasts I listen to. They sometimes have guests. They sometimes don't. Right. Because they're sharing knowledge with their audience. Get really clear who you want to talk to. You know, go online, do all the the research for who that listener is, not just their demographics, but their psychographics. What motivates them? What do they believe in? What are they looking for? What problem are you solving that they want and need? And of course, eventually we'll pay for because at the end of the day, you want your podcast as a business to increase awareness of your business, which is the best thing you can do is have a podcast to increase brand awareness. But then you also want to get people to sign up, be in your funnel, do all the things. I truly that's like great advice because we see it so many times where people are like, I'm going to talk to everyone and we all know how that ends up. And I love how yours has the niche built in, um, your podcast. You've got a target audience. It's and I mean, it's people that want to live life that are, let's say, fifty five plus that that is that is the target audience. Um, that being said, where I really appreciate the time today, where can people find you? Oh my gosh. Well, besides Ande. Ande Lyons, it is true. I'm an equal opportunity social media user. I mean, you can find me on Pinterest and TikTok and in fact, I'm going to be doing more short form on TikTok. And I'm very excited about that and more like, um, reaction and duets versus me being a talking head. Interesting. But yeah, yeah, yeah, but LinkedIn is really the best place. And of course, don't be caged by your age. Com just click on that and you're going to go and find all my episodes and what I'm up to. And then New England Podcasters Group, if you want to see what we're doing, hop on our Instagram feed, uh, as well to see what we're up to, uh, and have some good laughs. And, uh, you know, everywhere I go is where you'll find me. Thank you, Josh, so much for this opportunity. I'm so grateful to chat with you, chat with your audience and share my love of podcasting. Thank aging. Yes. Thank you, I appreciate it. You've obviously got the long history and, uh, have done so many cool things with it and are so pinpointed and successful with what you're doing. I appreciate the time. Um, I'm gonna take a couple of minutes, guys. I've got some summarizing to do, but then I will be right back. Ande. Thanks again. We will talk to you soon. The number one thing that struck me right off the bat in that interview, first off, okay, the number one thing was her energy. Oh, cow. I'm pretty sure that if you found a way to hook jumper cables up to Ande you would be able to power a small city. Just unbelievable. I she made it so much fun for me to interview her and to learn. Uh, she's been at this for quite some time. One of the most interesting things that I found with what she has done to build that community is naming that community. It gives it that identity. And to me, that's that's huge. Because if you just try and build this random group of people, what's one of the first things they're going to do? They're probably going to get a name convention of sorts to them. I mean, sports teams, cities, like any type of group, is going to have a name. Why not name your community? That's going to be huge for having that commonality and pulling that commonality. Commonality together. To me, like the fact that she had named them the pro agers. That's amazing. I mean, it describes what they do. It puts a positive emphasis on it. And once again, it's that commonality. It's what pulls that community together. And to me, that is one of the things that I absolutely loved about what she said. And frankly, it's one of the biggest takeaways that I see these community names. And I never even thought of that until, she said. That was one of the key things that she had done to bring that together. What a just a simple, wonderful thing to do in order to, to to raise that up a step in order to bring things forward. I absolutely, absolutely love that. The next piece was is her experience in doing this is the the way she talked about like listening is leadership. You have to spend the time sitting in the seat interviewing people to to really kind of figure out what you're doing and where you're going with this. I know so many. I've seen so many podcasts, and I've talked with a number where there's no real direction to it. It's kind of just floating along rather than a driving force, like, what are we trying to find out here? What are we trying to learn here with her? I'm literally trying to learn from her experience and the communities that she's built. Once again, those were those two pieces to me that I was trying to to gather today. That is why we went through and asked the questions that we did. That's why I look at those things ahead of time, and that's why I pull some of those pieces like you've you say this fairly often. Where'd that come from? Why? Those are the things that usually have those roots into what they're doing and why they're doing it. And I want to find that out because that will help guide me and that will help guide you in your podcasting journey. It's making sure that we're working towards that one thing the whole time. For that, she used the the edutainment there I believe, is what she, what she mentioned. And really, we're here to entertain and we're here to educate. We've all sat through, I remember numerous school teachers that I had for class that were educators, but they were definitely not entertainers. There was a number of teachers that I had that were also entertainers. Sometimes the entertainment wasn't always all that great, but they were entertainers also. And I learned so much more from those people because I was engaged. That all being said, go out, find guests like Ande for your show. Holy cow. She brought the energy. She brought the information. She brought everything. A good guest should go out and find more people like her, or go out and find her. Obviously, we'll have her information and her contact information in the show notes. With that being said, I need a break. So I am going to take a little bit of a break here. Next week I have a Podcasting Hall of Famer. It's going to be in the studio with me here. You need to stay tuned to find out who. I think the information in that one is going to be just as good. Take care of yourself if you can take care of someone else too. I will see you very, very soon.