The Real ROI of Podcasting: Return on Impact & Strategy with Sarah Lohse

Are you obsessing over podcast download numbers and expecting overnight success? It’s time to change how you view your show's ROI. In this episode of Podcasting Momentum, we sit down with Sarah Lohse, founder of Branded Media, to discuss why the true value of your show is measured in "Return on Impact."

Sarah shares her journey from coaching podcast guests to launching full-scale business podcasts designed for thought leadership. We dive deep into why "AI-generated authenticity" is an oxymoron, how to avoid the "one traumatic story" trap as a guest, and why a room of 20 highly-targeted listeners is far more valuable to your business than a stadium of passive scrollers.

If you are a business owner or marketing manager focusing on brand building with podcasting, this episode is packed with hard truths about setting realistic expectations and prioritizing strategy before you ever hit "record." We also explore how a hyper-niche focus becomes your ultimate weapon for podcast lead generation.

Key Topics Covered:

• The 4 pillars of true thought leadership.
• Why "introduce yourself" is the worst question a host can ask.
• Redefining ROI as "Return on Impact" for your brand and SEO.
• The "Living Room vs. Stadium" analogy for audience building.
• Why your unique story is the only thing AI can't replicate

Connect with Sarah Lohse:

• Website: https://workwithbranded.com/
• Socials: @stickwithbranded
  
  

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Transcript

0:00

It is about your story, your specific story. Because you know what? AI can't produce that. That is one of the great messages that we pulled out of this week's guest. And believe it or not, her and I do a lot of the same things. Which means if you're looking for a different perspective on some of the ways that we do podcasting, you want to stay tuned. It's always interesting to have other podcast producers on the show. Sarah, thanks for coming on. Uh, like we're going to have an, I'm sure, an interesting conversation because we've got probably a lot of the same war stories. Um, as you nod, like, uh, but we're probably going to have some different ones. You started the branded media like, was there a specific moment where you're like, yes, podcasting. This is where I'm going. How did how did that come to be? It actually kind of happened a little bit backwards, because originally the first company that I launched was Favorite Daughter Media, and I launched that to focus on podcast guesting and guest coaching, because I had been producing a podcast for a few years already, I was in-house as a director of marketing for a company that had a podcast. So I was producing their show, and I saw some really great guests, and I saw some really, really bad guests, and I was like, something could be done here. And so I launched a company originally just because I wanted to help people be better guests, so that the hosts don't have to waste their time. The amount of times I sent that, I'm so sorry the audio file got corrupted somehow we can't release it. And it's like, no, I just meant that this was terrible. Um, like, that happened so many times. I'm like, maybe there's something I could do to fix this. So I got in on the guesting side and then And I, it just kind of grew into producing and launching her own shows. That's amazing. And it's it's funny because anyone that has sat in front of the microphone as a host has always had that person about four minutes into the episode where you start looking at them like, oh, this, this is what you brought. I've my last podcast, we had a co-host and I've literally sent a text three minutes in like, this isn't airing, right? Like, no, no, just let him go. Just just let him talk. We're never going to release this. Yeah. No, we've we've all been there. Yes we have. We had one the other day where someone was told specifically not to talk about certain things, and they went straight for it and were like, um, no, that's not going to happen. That one, it was we. So one of the things that I tell hosts, like one of my like my number one piece of advice for a podcast host is do not ask the question. Introduce yourself. Same because it just opens. It opens the floor for them to just take it over. It's their show now. And they go spend the first like fifteen minutes just going over their resume. We do not do that. So this person comes on. The first question we ask is like, why do you do this one specific thing? Like a very specific question. And he's like, you know what? Before I answer that, let me tell you my story. And that was the last time me or my co-host got to speak for the next fifteen minutes. And I think the one time I did get to speak was me trying, like, did you actually just say that? Like, I was just questioning his nonsense that he was spewing and I'm like, yeah, this is not going out, ever. It's funny you say that because, uh, one of the things that I always tell people when like introducing a guest, you introduce them and ask a very specific question. Um, we've dealt with a lot of doctors, a lot of lawyers, and I'm like, if you give that, introduce yourself to a doctor. If you've got a twenty minute podcast, you're seventeen minutes in and maybe they're at their residency. Um. Your smile. Your smile says, yep, we've we've got a shared trauma here, which, uh, we're gonna trauma bond today. We're gonna trauma bond. We're totally gonna do that. Um, with that. So you kind of started the you started into the podcasting business, and I know a lot of it was helping people that have speaking engagements or want speaking engagements. How did you bridge that gap from one to the other and say, okay, this is the natural progression here, and how do you how did you feel like, yes, this is the step where I can get people from point A to point B. That's another one where it's like nothing kind of happened in the right order. Um, I had been in the podcast space and then I, I put a book out on, uh, storytelling. And my whole focus was storytelling for thought leaders and thought leadership is a it's a buzzword right now. It's what everyone is kind of trying to do. And there are a few different pillars that make someone a thought leader. Like there are things that you need to do in order to be successful in thought leadership. And it's have a podcast, have have stages, have a book, and have a website with your name as the domain. And that conversation kind of started to tie things together. So we were already launching podcasts. So then we started launching podcasts, um, partnering with different book publishing companies and working with authors to launch podcasts to go with their books. We started working with public speakers to launch them a podcast to help them get on more stages, and kind of just started putting those pieces together so that we could help people create that whole thought leadership umbrella with all of the pillars under it. That's interesting. So it was really you kind of had a couple of pieces in place and you're like, let's just add the others and we've now got the full umbrella rather than just pieces of it. Yeah. And we don't do all of the pieces like we don't publish books, but we work with you to turn your book into a podcast or have them work together. So we have partnerships with different, uh, companies who do different things. And we kind of just how do how do we put this all together and make these kind of like, almost like a cohesive marketing plan versus a few different strategies just working by themselves? That makes good sense. I love that when especially when working with guests and as you've worked with hosts, we always try and work with people on, like, how do you get the authentic story? We've all had I see the smile once again. The trauma bond is going to be strong here. Is that like there's so many times when you ask someone a question and you're like, I'm asking them a genuine question. And I got a script that is five to ten degrees off of my question. How do you like how have you worked with people in order to make sure like, hey, we're going to get done what we're supposed to get done here? And it's once again, it's making sure that people appear correctly. There's for me, one of the reasons why I love podcasting is if done right, you've got someone that's genuine. You can tell that the two of us are. We're pretty much ourselves right now. Um, I no one wants to act like me. Trust me. Is so, like, what's an encouraging thing that you tell people that like, hey, be yourself, act like, answer the questions, talk about this. What's the way you get people to do that? That that is a really good question. And that is an answer that I am developing every day. Um, I, I think part of it is tying in AI because right now AI can do almost anything and people are craving genuine human connection and they're craving actual, just authentic content. And if you're just reading off a script that ChatGPT wrote you, that's not going to hit the mark. Um, I call it like AI generated authenticity, which is in itself just not a thing. Um, and bit of an oxymoron. Exactly. Um, the only thing that, like ChatGPT cannot do is tell your story. And if you want to stand out from what is just all of the slop that's out there, you have to do that. And another piece of it is just kind of the way that I approach storytelling. And I've seen a lot of people telling their story, and they tell the same story, and they tell it over and over and over again. And it's always that one big traumatic story, something that happened, like in their childhood or something. And it's just that one thing. And is that story important? Absolutely. Is that story valid and need to be told? Absolutely. Is every single time that you tell a story supposed to be that story? No, it is not. So part of what I do is instead of teaching people like, how do we tell this story? I'm not teaching you that. I'm teaching you how to find other stories to tell. And how do you figure out what has happened in your life that is story worthy, and how to tell it so that you're not relying on that one story? And you can answer a question with a story that actually fits the question. And you're not just shoehorning in this one story that you now are known for. It's funny you say that because it makes perfect sense, because we've all heard that story. When you hear someone on one podcast and then you follow them to another podcast, you're like, didn't I hear this? Like, did they just copy and paste this. The fact that you're encouraging them not to just copy and paste is amazing. That that to me is a big key for that. Um, as we move on to me, I obviously see the return on investment with podcasting. I think pretty sure you see the return on investment in podcasting. Um, where's like where's the thing? Like, what's the thing that should be convincing people that, yes, you need to do this. And I mean, what's the other piece to that is too is as you and I know, podcasting is not a hey, I put a dollar in in three weeks later, I'm getting two dollars out. Um, this is a slow burn. Uh, what are like what is what is the big advantages that you see in podcasting that, uh, that helps them build with their audience? Now, that's a great question because I am always asked, what is the ROI of podcasting? And it is the hardest question to answer because I, I don't know. I'm not like I'm not there long enough to do that math, because something that happened today could convert like ten years down the line. Like, it is so impossible to measure the actual ROI because it's not something happening in a vacuum either. Like a podcast is not a marketing strategy. It's not a marketing plan. It is a tool, and you have to be using all of these other strategies with it to make things happen and to make it effective. So I've almost stopped talking about ROI, and when people ask me like what the ROI is, I reframe it as return on impact. And this isn't about the money directly coming from the show, because I can promise you, at least for the first, like year, it's going to cost you more than it makes you. But how is it going to impact your brand? And that is something that you can start measuring like day it launches and you're putting this content up on your website. So you're getting a whole lot of SEO power to your website to drive that traffic. You're if you're like me, and the worst part of being a business owner is having to create social media content. My socials have been updated maybe like three times since the Biden administration. It's awful and creating that content is a pain. So having a podcast gives you a funnel of just content that you can share, and it's giving you credibility because people don't have to listen to your podcast. But if you say, like I host the podcast on this topic, it's kind of just like imply that you're an expert on that topic. Sure. And it's like a little bit, um, I don't want to say manipulative, but you're able to like, grab some credibility just from the title of podcast host. So there's so many ways that it's going to start impacting your brand right away that aren't going to be monetary, but they're going to tie into things that are. So you're going to have people that find you through your podcast and want to work with you, or they find you, they check out your social media and they see these clips of you from your show that are talking about things that are relevant to them, and they're like, oh, this person knows what they're talking about. I trust them a little bit more. Let's like, let's start that conversation. So there's ways that it's impacting you and it's increasing your clientele. It's increasing your reach, your impressions, all of that. But it's not always in a way that is directly quantifiable. Sure. I've it's funny, some of one of the things that I sometimes look at with that is it's you can't necessarily say, hey, um, I am calling because of your podcast, but in so many ways, the podcast may have been the thing that got them over that hump or made their calling because they saw the ad someplace, but they initially made contact because of the podcast. I see that all the time. With that, I mean, I know you work on a broad range. Broad range of podcasts. Um, what is your favorite part of being in the industry and involved with podcasting overall? Ooh, there's a few. Uh, can I give two? Oh, by all means, by all means. One is the industry itself is so friendly and collaborative. And, I mean, you and I know this, like, you reached out asking if I wanted to be on your podcast, and I was like, yes, but full disclosure, I'm your competitor. And I was like, I'm fine with that. If you're fine with that. And you're like, yeah, I'm fine with that. Like, let's talk. And it's really because this industry isn't about competition. And there are things that I do differently than you, and there are things you do differently than me. There's things you probably do better than me, and there might be some things I might do better than you. and we will find our audiences. And the people who want to work with me are different than the people who'd want to work with you. And I'd rather partner with people and kind of fill in those gaps for each other than just try to make this a dog eat dog kind of thing. And that is very normal in this industry, and I love that. And now what was the second one? Well, I want to why you why you think of the second one? I want to mention something about the first reason there. Um, just looking at our scenes and us here, there's young woman. Old guy. There's a woman with, like, bright pink headphones and a pink glittery background. And me in a bow tie with stones behind me. I mean, this is like, if someone said we did the same exact thing, and then they looked at us, they'd be like, what? Uh, we do similar things and we do it differently, and we do it in our own way. What? That is a beautiful thing, I think. And like I said, anyone that's watching the video for this, like I said, the obviousness of that statement, you have a pink microphone cover. I mean, there's just twenty different ways that that we're completely different in this. And I that I mean, to me, some of the diversity in what podcasting is, is another is one of the pieces that I truly love. Um, because there's, I mean, there's podcasts about everything and anything out there. There's knitting podcasts, there's racing podcasts and everything in between. Um, and I love the collaboration statement because that's kind of that's something that we believe firmly in. And like I said, we we do similar things. I don't think they're the same though. Probably not. We do them differently. We do them in our own way. And I think people at this point, people want to work with people that they like and people that they connect with and the people who are going to connect with you and the people that are going to connect with me might not be the same people. And that makes sense. And I think when we work together to improve everything that we're doing, it's like rising tides, rates, all rising tides raise all ships. And I, I love that about this industry. And I think more industries need to be like that. And, um, I don't know I think I think there's something beautiful about it, especially with how much in the world is divisive right now. Sure. It's a very come together kind of place. Um, and then the other one is the just the part of what I do that I love so much. Um, so I do specifically I do podcast launches, um, and I help people like for a business, I do branded content. So it's business podcasts. And the launch process is my favorite thing. It's coming up with the strategy, coming up with the concept, putting pieces together. What is the goal that you're trying to accomplish? What is it that your business does differently? What is it that the audience you're trying to reach is looking for? And how do we design a podcast that's going to hit all of these boxes and do it in a way that is artful and strategic and content forward and value driven? And, um, I, I don't thankfully, I don't have to sit there and do all the editing myself anymore. I have a team that can do that, and I can dedicate myself to the part that I love the most, which is that strategy and that development. And that is just so fun for me. I meet someone and the first thing I'm doing is like, okay, so what's your podcast concept? What is it that you like? They tell me what they do and I'm like, okay, so here's your podcast. I like, I'll be talking to someone for five minutes and I've already designed their cover art and I'm like, okay, so here's what I made you. And that is not a lie that has happened. And it's saved and I'm waiting for them to launch it. Um, but that is it's just fun for me. And it's how my brain works. And the fact that I do this for a living is ridiculous. That's awesome. It's funny. I truly, truly love what I do too. I mean, it's the the things that we get to do, the people that we get to talk to, the people we get to work with. All those things are truly, truly awesome. And that strategy piece, I always find that interesting because it's a piece that so many people launch without, um, I recently had Dave Jackson on the show, and, uh, he's actually local, so he was in the studio with me. Yes. Yeah. Um, so great guy. I mean, he spent we we talked for forty, forty five minutes and he probably spent two hours here at the studio. Um, but he. Yes. He said like, right from the get go, the why he goes, so many people just want to have a podcast, but they want to have a podcast. They don't know why. And figuring that out is really it truly is. It's such a big piece of that. Because if you're missing that, you're going to get to the pod fade point where you're ten episodes in and you're like, why the hell am I doing this? This is this is a lot of work. Or if it's not a lot of work, it's a lot of money. because as I mean, it's what we do. I mean, both you and I save people time and we save people. Save people work by taking that on ourselves. And so I don't know about you. Our business is not free. Um. I didn't think yours was either. That. No, no, I mean, I'm launching a pro bono project, so right now, a little bit, but mostly. No, we do some of those also just it feels good to give back to the community, too. Absolutely. That being said, uh, what's I mean, we talked even briefly before we before we started up here and I'm like, no, no, no, no, we need to hit record, um, on some lessons learned. Because in doing this, we both may have been kicked in the teeth a few times and have been like, oh yeah, I'm not going to do that again. Um, inevitably we do it two or three more times before we finally figure out, oh, this is how I prevent myself from doing this. What is a big like lesson that you have learned throughout your podcasting journey as okay from from the perspective of a host, a producer, or the business owner that helps other people launch. I've got different answers. I'm going to say yes. Okay. Okay. I would say okay. The one that seems the most prevalent is I've had to make expectations incredibly clear from the beginning. And that goes to back to what we were saying about ROI. And explaining to them like, this might not make you money. This might. This is going to cost you money. This is an investment, but it's going to impact your brand. But even like I just had a conversation with a prospect and they were like ready to go and like, yeah, like let's, let's let's figure this out. Like, like sign on the dotted line I want this. But one of the things they said is like the launch package that I offer comes with the first five episodes, and from there you either can continue ongoing with us, or you could take it and do it yourself if that's better for your budget. And they had said, well, we'll do the five. We'll see how it's performing and we'll decide if we want to continue with the podcast at all from there. And I was like, no, I can tell you right now that is not worth your budget because five episodes in your podcast will be doing nothing. The downloads you'll have will be you and your coworkers, maybe your mom, and maybe my mom doesn't listen to mine. But maybe, um, and like, it's not going to have done anything that we've talked about at doing because five episodes is not enough. But I structure it to offer five so that I could keep it budget friendly. And if you want to continue it on your own, you can. And I give you all of the assets so that you can do that. So it's either like, tell me now that you plan on continuing it, even if it's not with my team. Or I'm just going to tell you off the bat, don't waste your money. And that was an interesting conversation to have to have. And I've had the same conversation with people too, because you can always tell when someone's like I say, like you're not going to see traction from this for I mean, you're really not going to see any traction for at least six months. Um, and then you'll start to see it build. And the problem is, is the build is, I don't want to say exponential, but it's multiplying. So you go from one listener to two, then you go from two to four. Then you go from four to eight. Then it's from eight to sixteen, then it's from sixteen to thirty two. So it's exponential, but people don't want to wait for that curve. They just instantly want a thousand. And the, uh, the two reasons that I see with it is one is there's the the Rogan expectation. Rogan gets three million. I call it the Joe Rogan delusions of grandeur. Yes I same we're very, very close in that. And then the and the other thing is too is I joke about it is, uh, I drove I drove into the studio today. Therefore, I'm a race car driver. Um, because it's the same thing and no people, it is not. And then the other piece to that is too is for me is, like I said, there's that exponential build over time. Some people see, we have we know of there's podcast companies out there that will buy the views and buy the downloads. Um, I had a friend of mine, she was getting close to ten thousand downloads a month and she was thrilled. And then she finally got access to the numbers. And when she saw nine thousand eight hundred and seventy five of them were from Singapore, she was upset, to say the least. That, to me, is one of those things where I'm just like, look, that's I mean, if you want vanity metrics, then that's the That that's what you're going to get. You're going to get vanity metrics. There's also so much like the podcast that we see so prevalently aren't by podcasters. They are by celebrities that wanted a podcast. And I also have to explain this to a lot of people, especially when we're picking the name and they're like, I want it to be called The Sarah Show. And it's like, okay, but who is Sarah? Does anyone look, is anyone searching for, you know, the only people who can get away with that are celebrities because people are googling their name. And instead you need to be very clear about what the content is. So people looking for the content are going to find you. But we people see these podcasts that are like Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan didn't get famous because he had a podcast. He was famous and he launched a podcast. He was already a celebrity. He already had a following. And so we see podcasts and we think, if I have a podcast, I'm going to have this massive audience and we start to look at an audience in terms of like a football stadium and I try to reframe this as much as I can as like, if you're thinking of your podcast as on stage in like a football stadium in this massive arena, like you are the Heiress tour, you're going to have twenty people listening to your podcast, and that's going to look like an empty stadium. But if instead you picture like you're sitting in your living room and there's twenty people there having this conversation with you that is standing room only like that is a packed room. People are like tripping over each other, depending on how big your living room is. But it's just we need to reframe our expectations like we are not celebrities. We don't have this massive built in audience. If you just think of these people like you are having this conversation about something that you are passionate about with these twenty people in your living room, that is a really filled room. You just have to stop expecting to sell out stadiums. I love that it's so many people look at the scale of the world instead of the like, look, here's, here's what you should be talking to. Here's where you should be talking. And it's once again too, like as someone that speaks in public on occasion myself, if I get an audience of ten or twelve people, pretty excited about that. Um, yeah. The expectations of like, hey, I'm going to have millions of people following me. No, no, you typically are. And that shouldn't even be the like they say. Um, like, if your audience is everybody, your audience is really nobody. And part of the process that I go through when I'm launching a show is minimizing the audience as much as I can. It's like the riches are in the niches and niche down until it hurts. You don't want to just have a podcast about healthcare, because how many other ones are there? You're competing against so many other shows. But if you have a podcast about healthcare for women, you have a podcast about healthcare for women in underserved communities. You have a podcast about healthcare for women in underserved communities and their children. Like, how much more specific can we get? You're knocking off most of the audience there, but you're connecting to the people that are actually relevant, and it's better to have a conversation with like fifty people that are really engaged and listening and are impacted by what you're saying, than fifty thousand who just hit play because they were bored on their walk to the mall. Like, you have to think about what your goal is because your goal should not be. I just want everyone to hear me. No, it's funny, I had to present this to a client a while back. I asked him, I'm like, do you want five thousand listeners or fifty people with checkbooks? And they're like, no, we want the five thousand listeners. And I'm like, do you? Right, right. It took me about a half an hour to break them of this, to be like, yeah, no, no, no, no, there's no one like those people don't care. The fifty with checkbooks are, like, ready to write you checks. Do you want checks? Um, it took a while to break them of it. It's. It's interesting. In the class that I teach, it's the same thing. It's once again, I tell them you have to pick a person that you can visualize in their mind. Not it's not thirty five to sixty. It's a thirty seven year old that does X, Y, and Z. And it's tough to get people to understand that you're not eliminating the rest of the people you're just focusing on. One is the one that we've had a tough one with. When I speak on this, I am like, I don't. I want you to tell me who your audience is, and I do not want you to tell me a range of anything. I want a name like name this person this like they are twenty seven years old. They live in Austin, Texas. They do this for a living. They they, like, are in the process of selling their grandmother's house. And the attic is filled with dolls that might be haunted. Like, how specific can we possibly get about this person? That's quite specific. Exactly. Yes. She's struggling right now. Okay. Nobody wants to buy this house. It is haunted. But like, my my point is, like, if you're just wanting to read people that are twenty five to forty five people, twenty five to forty five are all looking for something different. Yep. You're not going to reach every single one of them the same way. So get specific. Talk to one person. This is who I want to speak to this one person and put out content that they are looking for. Know what their pain points are. Know what they need solved. Put out content that solves that and they will find you. Love that. With. I think to me that's a good way to go to what you see in the future. For podcasting, I, I think we've got a bright future. There's a lot of people that are looking at AI going, this is like the we're like the dinosaurs looking up at the meteor is, uh, to me, though, I think we've got a bright future in this. What's something like what's something that you see we're going to I mean, we're launching end of the first quarter twenty twenty six here with this show. What what's something that you want to see or that you do see that's going to be the rest of the year here. I think podcasting is the perfect response to the way technology is changing. Podcasting is not commercial yet. Podcasting is not. Even when it is used for marketing, it is not infomercials. Podcasting is a platform for genuine storytelling. It is a platform for authenticity. It is a platform for not for corporations and people hiding behind logos. But it's for the like actual leaders to show their face and speak their mind and say what they need to say. And we live in a society that is led by corporations. That is a lot of just people hiding behind logos and podcasts give you an opportunity to connect with people and be face to face and have conversations. And that's going to break past the AI slop. It's going to break past the things that are not genuine, that are not authentic, that are just marketing messages. And I am excited for that. I think if you're not podcasting right now, you're missing the boat and you got to get on board as soon as you can because people are craving human connection and you can put something in writing, but you can't prove that it was said by a person unless you have it on video. This is what they said. So that's wonderful. Do it. That's that's wonderful. That being said, you said just do it. Uh, if you're going to give advice to a podcaster, maybe it's someone that's thinking about it. Just started something to that effect. You cannot say, just press record. You're like, I would never. You're like, damn it, I would never. That is the what? What is the one piece of advice that you feel that you can give to someone in just a few sentences from your experience in doing this? Don't lead with the content. Lead with the strategy and the why. Um, there are so many podcasts out there that are just like, let's just hit record. And me and my buddies, we talk all the time and we're so funny and we're always laughing. And we should have a podcast. No, you should not. You should hang out with your buddies and you should talk and you should laugh. And let's leave it at that. We don't need to hear it. What? Why do you want a podcast? What is your goal? What is the reason? What is it that you're saying that is important for other people to hear? And what is it like? Who is it important to hear? Like who needs to hear this? Figure out why you're doing it and who you're doing it for. And if your reason is because you want to make money. You're already missing the boat. That is. That's not what you're going to do. So be very clear on just why you're doing this, who you're doing it for, what it means to you, and just lead with that. Don't just hit record. So many people just hit record and they just speak nonsense for twenty minutes. They put it up online and they're like, why don't I have fans and followers? It's like, because that didn't say anything. You spent twenty minutes just spewing nonsense and no one needs to hear. Have a strategy, have a reason for doing this. Say something important and that's how you're going to eventually find success in it again, it's even with that, it's not going to be an overnight success. It's always a slow burn. Love it with all of that. I mean, obviously I love this and I think we've become fast friends in a way. Um, could could be, could be via the trauma bonding. But obviously we do things differently if people would like to get in touch with you, what's website socials? How can people get in touch with you? Absolutely. My website is work with branded com or you can go to meet with branded com to just book a call with me. I'd love to chat. And um, my website talks about how we do things and why we do things, and if it's something that is a match for what you're trying to do, I'd love to talk to you. And my socials are stick with branded. But again, I don't really post much at all because I forget so don't expect much. Set those expectations low. What a great way to leave it, Sarah. I really appreciate you coming on. Thank you so, so much. Thank you for having me. Yeah. For everyone else, I took some notes. I'm going to summarize some of this and I will be right back. Sarah's a great guest, and that stands to reason because she helps train guests. What a great niche spot to be in. Because look, if you already host a podcast and you have guests on, you know, sometimes those can turn into an absolute nightmare. So if you have someone that has coached people ahead of time and worked with them and gotten them to a point where they're going to be a great guest. Boy, does that take some of the load off you as a host and makes it just so much. I mean, it makes the episode so much better. To me, like, talking with Sarah today was amazing because she's a great guest. She had great ideas on stuff. She she knew where she was going with things. She knew the point she was trying to convey. And you can tell with each time it wasn't the it wasn't this repetitive point that she was trying to get out. I catch myself doing that all the time where I'm trying to tell the same story over and over again. I know you guys are sick of hearing some of the same stories over again. So what other items do I have that are relevant to that? She did a great job of having those new stories, those new items, those those other pieces come out. So it wasn't just her saying the same thing. From podcast to podcast to podcast. It's a it's a different story every time. It really adds that value to like, her being a guest because you know, you're not just going to get the rubber stamped thing that she said the last time. With that, I mean, as I start doing more and more guest appearances on other podcasts, I'm starting to look at those types of things. What are the things that I need to do in order to step up my game, to be a great guest for people? One find some new stories and that's that's one that I'm definitely going to be working on soon. She mentioned collaboration in the industry and I have to agree. I love the fact that so many of us can collaborate and work together. There's I'm going to quote a podcast host of mine. It's Bill snow from the late great podcast. He talked like he owns an automotive shop. It's one of the things that he does. And he says, there's plenty of cars out there. Um, he's right there is. We don't need to fight over the same ones. It's finding the ones that you can like that you can help the most. Uh, Sarah and I talked, I mean, for a little bit afterwards about, like, hey, what's your specialty? What's your specialty? Because we're going to refer people to each other because we want to make sure that everyone gets the help that they deserve. Um, she's got a specialty in finance she knows how to work with. I mean, they've always got, like, the. They have to worry about what they say. Um, you can't say certain things. You got to worry about the law. You've got to worry about all sorts of other compliance things. She knows how to go through that jungle of compliance. It's not a specialty of ours. So to me, for like a finance podcast, boy, is she a great one to talk to about something like that. Strategy is something that everyone needs to start their podcast with, and to me, it's something that you should probably audit every six months or so. What is the strategy? What are we trying to accomplish? Where are we going? Dave Jackson said this a few episodes ago. Why? Why are we doing this? Make sure you're answering that question. That is like with each show. Why are you doing this? Make sure that you answer that question. The other one, too, when she said that. Twenty people in the living room. I love that example. Like twenty people in your living room is crowded, twenty people in a stadium, you're not even going to be able to you're not going to see them all because they're going to be so spread out. That's that's a great piece to that. That just shows that it doesn't need to fill a stadium to be effective. If you have a room of twenty people, boy, you can be super, super effective, especially if those twenty people are really interested in what you have to say. That's where finding your podcast happens. That's where finding your audience happens, is it's finding those twenty people that really, truly do want to hear from you. That's what makes it special and that's what makes it a connection. Once again, we all want to talk to three million people because we think out of those three million people, ten percent of them are going to call and order something off of us. No, I'd much and I mean, you know, that's that ten percent isn't going to happen. I'd much rather have the three hundred people that I really connect with that really want to support me, that have, like, totally fit our mission and what we do. I'm going to go back to a story that I have told before, the Prof. G the Prof g markets podcast. They typically start with a reasonably offensive joke because they know their audience. It's not going to offend their audience, but it's going to offend a lot of other people. Once again, they're not trying to talk to everyone. They're trying to talk to the people that truly, truly belong in that community. That being said, if you want to check out our discord community would love to see you there. Would also love to include you on our emails if you want podcasting tips. No, we are not going to spam the jabbers out of you. We talk about each episode and we talk about what we've learned in the episodes. Do me a favor, go sign up for the newsletter. With all that being said, take care of yourself if you can, take care of someone else too. I will see you very, very soon.