The "Nebulous" ROI of Podcasting, Building Authentic Trust, & Pristine Audio with Rachel Moore

Why are you podcasting in the first place?

In this conversation, Rachel Moore joins us to break down what makes a business podcast actually work. We get into the real reasons companies start podcasts, why so many shows create friction for listeners, and why great audio still matters more than flashy video. We also dig into one of the biggest questions in podcasting for marketing: how do you measure ROI when trust, authority, and buying decisions build over multiple touchpoints?

Rachel also shares one of the wildest podcast pivot stories you’ll hear — from reviewing Marvel movies with her family to transforming that show into a menopause-focused platform. From there, the conversation expands into audience experience, authenticity, overproduction, AI, trust-building, and the planning required to keep a podcast alive long enough to matter.

This episode is packed with practical insight for small business owners, marketing managers, and anyone serious about brand building with podcasting.

What you’ll learn:

•  why podcasting for marketing starts with purpose 
•  how poor audio creates instant audience friction 
•  why authenticity builds more trust than overproduction 
•  how client attraction podcasting works across multiple touchpoints 
•  why measuring podcast ROI is harder than most people expect 
•  the planning mindset that keeps a show from dying after a few episodes 

Rachel’s point is simple: people want to know who they’re buying from, and podcasting helps businesses build that trust over time. That’s what makes marketing with podcasting such a powerful long-game strategy.

Subscribe for more tips for podcasting, podcasting for marketing, and smarter content strategies for growing your business.
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Transcript

0:00

Why are you podcasting? Why do you want to start a podcast? We are going to address that today. We need to stay tuned. Rachel, thanks for coming on. You have, and this is what makes me excited, a fascinating pivot story. And you already know where I'm going with this. So I kind of want to tell this. You started reviewing Marvel movies with your family called Unpause it. Yeah. Now menopause it. Yes. It's okay. Now that we've got the hook here from Marvel movies to menopause. I am not someone that is going to be able to draw that line. I cannot connect those two. So I'm going to let you connect. How the hell did that happen? Okay. I, and I love that you went into this because it's, it's one of my fun facts. I like, you know, whenever people ask, like, what's a fact that nobody maybe would guess or know about you? And I'm like, well, my family and I hosted a, a podcast that, uh, reviewed Marvel movies. So, um, first and foremost, uh, I'm a nerd. Um, I don't know if that's gonna, that probably will become very evident as we go. And really anybody can just look behind me and see all my nerdiness, um, on my wall. But I'm a huge nerd in my family are nerds. So I married a nerd. We, uh, we have two nerdy offspring. Our cat's probably nerdy to a degree. Um, but we, uh, it was interesting because like the Marvel Cinematic Universe, we were all all into superheroes and let's just give, give a moment to that is a generational endeavor, a project that happened. I mean, literally, Kevin Feige had to have a murder board going on that was just cataclysmically huge because it was like, how are you connecting the dots between all these movies and all these characters and all this stuff. But anyway, we were all totally into MCU phases one through three mostly. And so, um, and I was a marketer and I've done the whole corporate, you know, full time job stint. I've also had some businesses on my own, but, um, I also have a certification. It's very old, uh, in radio and TV broadcasting. And I was like, and live streaming was around. And I've always been fascinated by the tech and the cameras and the mics and everything. I'm like, and then everybody and their brother was having podcasts. I was like, oh my gosh, why don't we do this thing on the way home from movies? And at home, we always talk about these movies together. And mind you, my children were like five and seven. Um, when we first started doing this and we're like, why don't we, let's record that, let's record the discussion. And I'm just going to throw it up as a podcast. I don't need anything. I don't have to pay to do anything like that. I mean, I think I paid a hosting service like seven dollars a month. Libsyn. But I was like, that's nothing. Let's do it. So, you know, I bought microphones. Some sucked, some didn't. You go back and listen to some of those old episodes. The audio sucks, but literally just put a planet, a microphone in the middle of the room. And what the fun thing was, was we rotated. So I would host an episode and kind of drive it much like you're driving this one. But then the next week, my son would drive it and, you know, we'd put a little script out, be like, okay, here's the next question. Ask. So we gave them practice like, you know, why don't you be kind of the main host and you ask the questions and then we all answer them and everything. So we had a ball. Um, I did have to kind of try to get my husband. I'm like, you need to give them time to talk. I mean, oh my God. Like he and he hopefully he'll hear this and he knows it. He just really he's, he, if he could have his own podcast, just talking about entertainment, he would he listens to them religiously. But, um, but it was so fun. So that was when they were little and we did that for years, right? So like, we, we caught up on the movies, but then we would watch them and then we'd review them and then we'd put it out and, um, went on for years. Well guess what? Uh, children get older and they're like, I don't want to do that anymore. I've got friends and I've got hobbies and mom, that's neat that you're still interested in whatever, but I don't got time to sit down and talk about this stuff. So they went on their merry way. And the podcast just kind of sat there. My husband and I did a brief series on it called, uh, the car ride home, where I would just take, uh, two lav mics, hook them up to a, a little, uh, rode like mic and we would just, and we'd have the car sounds in the back, but we would just review movies on the way home. Did a few episodes like that? Um, well, again, I mentioned we're all aging, right? Kids are getting older. Well guess what? I was getting older too. And um, yes, getting older beats the alternative. True. I don't want a Benjamin Button this shit. Um, but, uh, but yeah, so I was getting older podcasts just sitting there. And now at this point, I've got, I've, you know, as I mentioned, I kind of would pivot between career types and whatever. Well, now I've got my own podcast slash content marketing agency and, and then I hit menopause or perimenopause if we want to be specific about it. Any woman listening to this is going to know exactly what I'm talking about. But I started noticing stuff about myself. I'm like, I'm tired. My hair turned into veritable straw was it was pretty blue at that time. Um, and just a bunch of other symptoms where I'm just like, all right, stuff's going on. Talk to my doctor. They're like, oh, you're probably just stressed or depressed. I'm like, well, maybe, um, it took a good year to convince my doctor that I was like, yeah, I'm going through this. So I am, of course, anyone with a microphone in the means to put a word out into podcast them is, was like, I should be talking about this. I was also getting very angry about it because, um, again, women know this, but men might, this might be new men folk you should know this about for the women in your life. Uh, nobody was talking about menopause. Like it literally hit Gen X women and we're all like, what the hell? Uh, why have we not gotten memos about this? And also, sadly, the medical, um, medical, uh, systems and stuff. There is very little education and there's very little article anything about menopause that's out there. You literally hit it and they're just kind of like, I mean, as evidenced by how my doctor took her a year to convince her, can we like, just do some freaking blood work and see? So, uh, I turned yeah, I turned my, I turned unpause it. And I was like, as a marketer, I'm like, how can I maybe transition this without just creating something brand new? I've already got all this historical these, these things and it's the through line of my life. Why, why the hell not? So I changed unpause it to menopause. It just kind of worked. And so, um, that is where that brings us to today, where I do like a monthly interview with, uh, some kind of person, whether it's a medical expert or a woman who's just going through it and wants to talk about what they're dealing with. But that's where the podcast lives now. So yeah, full, full, full ride. Um, still going through it. I think I'm still perimenopausal apparently, which is delightful, but, um, yeah, we just talk about that experience the whole way through. And yeah, as that's my, my kids don't listen to it. My husband doesn't. But apparently now that some of our friends are like, I'm seeing you on my YouTube channel a lot more often. I'm like, haha, that's me talking about it. The way you describe it, it doesn't sound like you hit perimenopause. It sounds like it hit you. Um, maybe with a right hook or a left hook or something like that. Yes. So that's um, and speaking for men everywhere, thank you for taking that bullet for us. Uh, oh my God, all the women are y'all. And it's, I should say it hits women differently every time, which is again, there's really no textbook about it, but sure. Just just know that that's happening. No, no thanks. I'll, I'll, I'll pass. I'll take your word that it sucks. You should, I would, uh, with that you've talked about in so many cases, like a frictionless journey for the audience. Yeah. Um, so many people like with like remote podcasts and everything like that, they, they do things to create friction with their audience. I guess I would say they, they, they don't always make it easy for their audience. Yeah. Um, some people, most people, I would say they do that unintentionally. Um, they make, they make things difficult. They change things. They do whatever it is. What is the top friction point that you see that people are just doing haphazardly? It's the thing that just happens that they aren't realizing like, oh, hey, I would fix that. I would say, and I have people that disagree with me because we are in the environment. We're recording video this, this podcast getting recorded video and audio, um, podcast started out as audio only and there really are the evolution of old time radio, y'all. I mean, and which, by the way, I think in the last week or two, uh, podcasts actually have finally overtaken radio. Yes, I saw that. Right. And, but that's where we. And so when you're thinking of it that way, and I, we all have our favorite podcasts. We listen to the audio is pristine. It's. And, but it's, I also want to say it's not overproduced. The audio is prioritized. And to me, even with this video podcast, I, I prioritize the audio all the time videos, great videos, great. Um, but even like the podcasts I listen to on YouTube and I want everyone just simmer in that I listen to it on YouTube, even though YouTube is a video platform, but I don't watch them, I have them. Okay, my phone is sitting right here in front of me, and I'll have it sitting there in my little stand and I will have a YouTube podcast playing, not looking at it. I glance at it once in a while, maybe two percent of the whole show. Um, if they're sharing something on the screen, sure, but I'm listening to it. The audio needs to be pristine, and I think so many people, um, don't like they just kind of like, oh, whatever. The content is the most important thing. I'm like, well, if I can't fucking hear it correct, I'm bouncing. And I've had that happen where. You get obviously, and we've probably been in the same boat too. Um, we've talked about Riverside being awesome. I love it because I can get pristine audio through it. And but you also have to take care as a podcast host, I had a guest one time where they, they were using a specific mic and it was totally distorting and I'm like, and I had them fiddle with it and it was a mic that has settings on it with knobs and whatever you can adjust. And they, they, they did whatever they could. And it was still, I'm like, I need you. So I had them move their microphone twelve inches away from them. I'm like, great, I got you now. Now I'm not getting distortion. That was important because I'm like, I can't, I can't, I could record this just so you don't feel like I'm trying to like over manage this, but then it's going to suck. And there's only so much y'all. If you're, if you're in any way new to podcast production, it's very similar to like when you take a picture, someone sends you a, hey, I'm going to email you a picture and they email it in a word document and they expect you to go like make a big billboard on the highway with it. And you're like, well, this the resolution's not big enough. I can only stretch it so far and I get pixels. Same thing happens with audio. If you record it distorted, there's only so much you can do with any kind of software and audio technician expertise, which I am not, by the way, a big audio technician. Thank God again for tools that we use, but there's only so much you can fix it. It's going to suck. So my big thing is like, is, is downplaying or ignoring the importance of good audio that will save your bacon even if you have bad video, because at least people can hear it and they are able to now still passively ingest what's happening with the podcast. Um, so that that would be my big thing is get the good mic. You don't actually have to overspend a ton. You don't have to have a. Sure, Mike. Sure are expensive. My best mic I ever had. I paid seventy dollars for it and it was great and it saw me through several years. So just get the good mic. And as always, you know, tell people like rather than use your laptop, Mike, use a mic, even if it's like the little earbuds or something that you get from your phone when you first buy it. Great. Use a mic, use a mic, use a mic. I, I, I love there's two, two points that I want to address in that. And first off, yes, I have always said from the beginning that people in many cases like you have literally inserted me in your ears. Yeah. Um, I should make sure that I'm like, my sound should be justified in that. Yes. Um, you like literally, I can like seeing you on camera. I am in your ears. This is, this is like the most intimate thing that you can probably do, um, via the internet. That being said, um, for those that, the thing that I like about this too is like, once again, most people are going to listen to this. We are, however, going to get some people that are going to check out the video for periodic things. And one of the things that I want them to check out is today is how my shirt and your hair match do. If you don't see this in video, you need to go find this because this was very intentional by me to make sure that that we matched. And this is the beauty of video because when we make the clips out of this, yes, people are going to see this like, oh, this matching thing, uh, that, that. So yeah, that, that's the, the value of video, but one hundred percent if it's amazing video, if it sounds like the McDonald's drive thru speaker of which they have vastly improved over the last ten or fifteen years, that's true. I remember we're around about the same age and growing up. I still remember where you had to ask them to say it four times in order to make sure that right. I'm like, what? Correct. Yes. Correct. But the problem is, is that is what the audio that some people get for their podcasts and they're like, hey, true. This is fine with that. I mean, we do a lot of business to business shows. You do a fair number of business to business shows. Yeah. What is the trust touchpoint that you think a lot of businesses miss on, uh, being human? Um, oh my gosh, y'all. We you you mess up. You're a human and working at a company. You mess up. I mean, you're going to mess up. And the thing that I ah, and I totally get it. I totally get it. Not not everyone is built. It is not a natural skill for you to flip on a tab with a camera. And now it's lit up and I'm speaking in a mic to you That is not an inherent skill most people have. Public speaking people hate it. Okay, nobody's really good at it unless you really practice at it. So it's not like that's something anyone probably looks forward to. You and I are anomalies. We're probably like, oh my God, I totally get to be on a podcast today. And we're excited about it because that's what we do. And, you know, hand me a mic. I will, I will do whatever you need me to do with the mic and be like, oh, let me go direct traffic or whatever. That is not what most people feel about being on a camera. So it's a scary enterprise anyway. So it stands to reason that you're going to get business leaders who are going to be on a camera now and on a microphone, and sit there with you for thirty minutes to an hour and talk about what they know. And, um, it's worse than being in a job interview. Okay. That's more it's more comfortable for people. That's a familiar experience. It's more familiar than being on a podcast. Well, because now, you know, this is going to go out and be on feats in YouTube. Um, you know, and the video can be dissected. People can go on this video and say like, her hair sucks. I would never do my hair like that. She's how old is she? Is she, you know, and that's fine. They can have those opinions. But knowing that you're subjecting yourself to that, you it's it's very scary. So my, my, my whole message with that is like, I think the people tend to have a proclivity to be like, well, let's produce the shit out of it. Then let's, I want all the, oh, I have my shirt today. It's got um, um, like, um, huh, like, you know, and so, and it's got all those filler words. Um, because we're like, I can't, nobody needs to know that. I said, uh, all right, that's fair. Maybe. And I have, I've definitely edited out a string of as and ums out of some podcasts I've done, but it's okay to leave some of those in. It's okay if you say, hey, uh, oh my gosh, I showed up to this. My hair's not perfect. Um oh, sorry, my cat's in the background. Or you might see, you know, someone walking behind me or. Or. Oh, no, there's. I heard a car horn. Um, there is the point where you can overproduce stuff and then the trust kind of leaves. Um, I always tell my guests, I'm like, when they get on with me, I'm like, hey, I want you to hydrate. We, we all drink water here. We're all made up of water. Um, so it's okay if you please. I would rather you hydrate. Thank you. Cheers. With whatever you want to drink during the podcast. And then I'm like. And also, we can do retakes. Yes, I can edit those out later. We want to make you feel good. And my, my job as a podcast producer and a host is to make you shine. I want to make your smartness come through, but I want your personality too. And I think when you are talking about building trust as a business, especially in the age of AI, y'all. Hello. Um, but people want to see that you're a real person. We want to see that you're a real person. So please, by all means, tell us that you have a vice. Tell us that you're like, oh, you know, I drink too much tea or whatever. You know, it can be something super lame like that. Yeah, yeah. Uh. Many vices. I don't drink too much tea. I drink tea. I eat too much chocolate. Oh, my God, I love chocolate. Um, and I'm messy. I'm a messy person. I you're seeing, like, clean desk back here. Sort of. But over here, it's just a mess. Um, but that's what I'm saying is like, businesses are trying to build trust in this age of AI in this age of, oh my God, if you go look at the Edelman Trust barometer, um, it's just every year, it's like no one trusts businesses or, you know, or no interest governments. It's just always this dipping, dipping, dipping. Well, then be real with me. Then tell me what's real about you. I am far more likely than to trust you and your business and your product. If I feel like you're a real person, I can. I can actually talk to you and that you'll be honest with me about you being real. And so that would be my message is like, don't over produce your stuff. Let people see the humanity, the human that is making the thing that you want people to, to buy from you. That would be my thing. Sorry. That was a that was the Tldr at the very end, But I love it. And I have a couple of things to say off of that. First off. Um, is that a red swing line behind you? Yes. Thank you. What is that from everybody? You know, the. They switched to the boss and my stapler. I told him I did not like the I. Yeah. Um, I'm. I'm going to burn the place down. Is that being said that it's funny you mentioned the skill of being on the camera, being on the mic. Um, interestingly enough, I have a friend, Tammy, who was in the studio a while back, um, who said she's like, I have a newfound respect for what you do. Josh she goes, because she's like, I saw the cameras and I'm just like, what the hell do I do? Yeah. Um, and you start sweating and just like, it's funny, her daughter and son in law run a haunted house and she's like, I don't. She goes, it's a tie right now between being on camera and having someone with a running chainsaw chasing me. Um, she goes, those are like the two scary things. So I told her, I said, I'm going to have you in the studio, turn the cameras on, and then I'm going to stand at the door with a running chainsaw. She's like, pick one. I'm like, I picked the saw. Right, right. Which one are you going to run to the microphone or the saw? Um, that being said, it's so funny. Like there's a joke. And I mean, I know you've seen this in many cases too, where like podcasting should be a little more expensive. Um, because there are podcasts where we're like, oh, this, this doesn't, this should not be getting out here. No, this is, this is podcasting a bad rap. And the problem is, is I like to call it the driving paradox. I drove here today. Therefore I'm a race car driver because people can talk. They think, oh, I'm a podcaster and, uh, there is skill to it. And it's one of those things where I always encourage people to work on that work on how you present, work on how you talk. Because what's tough, especially if you do a solo podcast, is you're going to say something and then kind of did did that land? I have no idea. Whereas I mean, with a guest show like this, when I say something terribly corny, if I see you smile, I think, okay, well, maybe someone else in the world will like this, too. Yeah, yeah, it's it's definitely a skill that is should be developed. And I know people that are phenomenal public speakers that as soon as the camera turns on, they go to complete garbage. Yes. So I, I tell people to test this with that the trust thing and the be yourself thing and make sure that you like build on that trust. Trust is a big thing for us too. Yeah, it what do you see as the return on investment with trust? And I mean, obviously, as we are talking with companies about marketing and things of that nature and using B2B podcasting as a tool, that's what it is. Yeah. For at least how we use it, it's that tool. And I mean, should be fun too, but it's a marketing tool. Yeah. Like how, like, how do you talk about that return on investment? Because in so many cases, people are people like, hey, I spent two hundred dollars on ads and I got seven hundred clicks, right? Um, congratulations with a podcast. You're like, hey, I podcasted and what am I telling my CFO happened? Yeah. So y'all, it's nebulous. I'm not gonna lie. I mean, working in marketing, we're all about data. We always want to find what, what can I attribute our success to? What channels worked? Right. We're trying. We're pulling all these levers all the time. Podcasting is a channel. It's a marketing channel. Um, and it is nebulous because listen, you put a podcast out there. Um, yes, you can get data for about how many people listened, how many people downloaded the episode? Um, you know, have people subscribed if they're subscribing to a YouTube channel or subscribing and I want to see and get alerts of that. So you can do that. But that's not what a board or a C levels or investors care about. They want to know, well, how are you driving dollars for me? So trying to draw that through line is hard. And it's, it's, there are some platforms out there that can kind of help with that, because the thing you always want to always marry this up with is like, okay, but how do I know that you listen to a podcast or some of our podcast episodes? And that resulted in, in the end game, you filled out a form or you signed a contract and now you're a customer, right? And now we're getting money because way back when you listened to some episodes, obviously there's multiple touch points out there. Um, you know, it's called the web for a reason. There's like all these big, big, fast web. I mean, I touch everything social media, you know, your website, you wrote a blog over here and I listened to your podcast over here and I went to a webinar over here. Um, so trying to draw that line, we can put links in show notes that are UTM links that can like, oh, if someone clicks on that, I can tell they got to the blog or whatever. And then my little CRM over there can tell me, yes, that I can attribute that you can do surveys. You know, you'd be like, which again, are bit bit nebulous because it's all about like, well, how did you hear about us? It'll probably be the last thing that they. Well, I read your blog's last thing I did versus I listened to the podcast like two months ago. So a lot of it can stem into that dark social or the, you know, the dark analytics where it's like, I can just tell that. Maybe before we started doing a consistent podcast, we got about this much general traffic in search, organic search. Um, after we started it, it increased, um, there's a refined labs is, um, an agency that, a client that I worked with actually, it was when I had a full time job, they were our like growth agency and they have some really good stuff on this too. They talk because they have a podcast, they do a private audience, but they talk about how it absolutely impacts their traffic. They get business traffic to their website and also just the lead nurturing and the quality of those leads. And that's what I want to talk about there. It's the quality of those leads because I'm a Gen Xer, I think you said we're kind of are you Gen X? Are you? I very much am. Gen Z doesn't care about you putting out blogs or you winning awards and you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you like your name being in PR and everything. They are checking social media feeds. They're gravitating toward groups and community. They are there. They care about AI slop. They are thwarting that with every turn they can. They want relationship. They are not transactional and they want relationship. And we need to care about that because as even people my age might be holding dollars and making decisions, Gen Z is going to influence those decisions. And they really are, I think leading the way and saying, I need to know you're a real person and feel like I can trust you. It's so funny because I know I alluded earlier to like the old days of radio, right when radio shows were the thing, and that was before TVs. That was how people like got their, you know, ingested how things were happening in the world and their stories and all that stuff. Um, well, back in those days too, there were like salesmen that would sales salesmen, not salespersons, mostly salesmen that would go door to door to sell things like Tupperware and vacuums and encyclopedias, encyclopedias. We had those in my house. Um, that was a face to face thing. Um, Mary Kay, for God's sake. Um, that was like my makeup. You, like, had your, like, your person that would always tell you the new makeup that was out. But we're getting back to that where they're like, I want a relationship with you. I want to know you're a real person. And that would be my, um, the return on doing podcasts. Listen, your, your top salesperson can, you can write a blog, you can do a white paper, you can be in a webinar or you can pre-record a webinar and people can see you. I feel like that's a bit on the same level as a podcast, but when I can have an extended conversation with that salesperson. Okay. Why? Tell me why, why, why? Hey, why do you sell this stuff? And B, why is why can you convince me that it's any good for. Why should I spend money on it? Why do people say they like it? Or even getting like on a podcast, on a business podcast, getting one of your customers on it to be like, well, listen, we were up shit creek until we like settled on buying your product or service and now we're not up shit creek anymore. You made, you made this easier for us and and then you can get into it's not just about, well, you helped us with a dollar thing, but you also helped me sleep better at night because my boss was breathing down my neck to pick something so that we could fix this problem. And I get to hear about that and get the real sense of like, what did that mean to you? Right? So that's where the return is. Like I said, it's, it's hard because it's nebulous. And the, the boards, the CEOs, the investors want to know? Did a podcast move the needle on our revenue? And that is the challenge. And if you can draw that line, great. This is where like surveys and things like that come into play. Because if you can point and say, well, people have been saying our best customers and our top leads have been saying, yeah, I did listen to the podcast and it influenced my decision. That's the gold. And so that'd be like, it's not, I wish I had a good pat answer for everybody. It's something we're going to keep chasing probably for a while. I'm sure this will get better and easier because podcasts people are really seeing benefit from it, benefit from it, and companies are doing it and they're seeing some results. One of my and I'll end with this. I know I've been talking at length, but, um, I'm a podcast host. What do you expect? Uh, but, uh, and I don't, I don't usually get to talk all the time. Um, but, uh, one of the podcasts I produced for and host host for that, their podcast is their top, top of funnel channel. Uh, you know, in addition to all the other things they do, it's the thing that's bringing people to him. So you might hit that where you're like, wow, this, this really, it really is. It's a great way. And it's also something could be so it's so good to be multi-purpose. You can do so many things with this video that you can now. Okay, let me go put this out on the other channels and have that drive our content engine. So it's great. Just figure it out. But it's worthwhile doing when you do it the right way. It's funny you say that because it takes me back to, I started doing video when I worked at a semi truck dealership and because of the videos, I remember sending thirteen semi trucks to Chicago. Um, yeah, so close to two million dollars worth of trucks. Whoa. Right. Just because I was doing videos. So that was one of the few times I was able to make that, hey, they, they called and they said, hey, we love the videos. We want to order trucks from you. And I'm like, that's amazing. Um, okay. Yes. But when you see the, like I said, the thing that's so tough with it is in so many cases, no one comes in and says, hey, I saw your billboard and that's what brought me here. No one's like, I saw your ad on TV and that's what brought me here. It's they saw your ad on their phone. They saw your ad on the billboard. They saw your podcast. They. So yeah, I love the, the what was the word that you used? I haven't heard in a while. Uh, is it omnichannel, multichannel web? Uh, no, it wasn't ambiguous. It was similar. Oh, nebulous. Nebulous. Yes, I knew, I knew it, I knew it ended with an S, but no, I love the, the terminology that you use with that because that to me, it really that's the fit for it. It's it's tough to it's not a straight line. I don't think it's kind of. I like to ask the question because it's. We kind of get into those things and figure some of that out. That being said, you're active on Substack, if I remember correctly. YouTube. Yes. Um, you're talking about fractional marketing, Future proofing. Um, there's this thing that has come out recently that people are talking about. Um, just it's brand new. Um, I believe it's called AI. Um. What's that? Yeah. Like Terminator. Correct. Um, my, my favorite thing with AI, the analogy that I always like to use is like, I work on cars and motorcycles. Sometimes when I like if owning a business isn't frustrating enough and I need something more frustrating, I will go out to the garage and work on my motorcycles. That being said, I can reach into my toolbox and every tool in there can be a hammer. Not every single tool in there is a good hammer though, right? And I feel like everyone's reaching into their toolbox and looking for a hammer. Yeah. You talk about and this is one of the things that I do that I. What made me so excited about this success is a shared thing is our core value. You talk about mission of helping. Mhm. How do you make sure that you are positioning things for that mission of helping to make sure that people have jobs tomorrow, the next week and the week after and are doing the right things. Uh, well, and I always, I, you'll hear me say this a ton on my videos. I'm like, y'all, I'm, I'm on this ride with you. I don't know, I, I am not, I am not the AI, I am not the, I'm not the AI. And by the way, AI will make mistakes all the damn time. Yes. So which makes it more human than machine sometimes, but uh, no, I, I, I am self deprecation is one of my, my own values. Um, I, I believe it's that in humor, frankly, I say I use this a ton because it disarms people. A and also I'm just like, and now, you know, it's like, it's like, I'm not perfect. And I hope I'm never one of those people that anyone watching or listening to my stuff blindly just trusts and believes everything I say. I always come at it saying please in the comments or you know, DM me or whatever, but are you seeing something different that we should know about and talk about in these videos? Um, because all this stuff is fallible and we can only go on the information that is we're given at the time and that we know about and that we can try to test out. Um, so yeah, I always try to come through my videos with being like, I never want to be a source of, of misinformation. So I always, I, uh, one of my pet peeves is when, and this is so the way it is. I, I've been dabbling on threads quite a bit over the last year, and I can't stand that we're in this, um, era where people just put things out in a text or in caption. There's no link. Like there's no link to a news article. Where'd that come from? You just are telling me something, but there's no source that I can go. Okay. Where'd you get that from? Which is why we have community notes. But I'm like, can you just share the fucking article, too? It drives me nuts. And so I always try to do that to my show notes or on my screen. I'll be like, I'm getting this from this source. I'm getting this from this source. Always check sources. Always check sources. Um, but yeah, I, we are, this is such a uncertain time. I feel like we're all trying to balance on this, like very shoddy life raft on very tumultuous oceans where it's like, I don't know if we're going to be able to stay afloat. I don't know if there's a tsunami coming. I don't know if I'm going to, you know, maybe, maybe it'll be fine. Um, in AI is is fucking around with so many destinies right now. It's, it's, uh, I use it. I, and I just came out with this like phrase in the last week. You know how like I know, you know how this goes. You're like, you'll say it, you'll type a phrase, you'll say a phrase like, ooh, that was that was good. That was a good one. Um, and the one I was like, um, use AI. So you're not used by AI. And yes, I say the same thing about my phone. Yes, yes, it's put it down sometimes use your phone instead of letting it use you. Thank you. Exactly. Because it's so easy to just I mean, you hear about these people who are like, they they've actually gone into depression after the what chat chat. GPT four point oh model went away because it was their buddy and or their romantic interest. And you're like, honey, I mean, look, there's a lot deeper issues going on with folks like that. They, they need help. Um, but yeah, I, we're just in very uncertain times. There are probably people listening to this podcast or watching it who are like, okay, I literally just lost my job to AI or I know it's coming. I'm gonna lose my job to AI and all these tout about like, well, that's okay, AI is going to make it. So we're all living off of universal income. And I'm just like, I'm sorry, how are we doing that? Who's buying stuff? Nobody can afford to buy stuff if we don't have jobs. So what are you talking about? So yeah, I, I just want to, I, my focus with my videos ever since I first started. So I have a channel called, um, my, my YouTube channel is, but wait, there's more. But way back before that was my business, my original S corp was really social inc because that was my origin story in marketing with social media. And I just started making a weekly video saying, here's how to use social media, here's how to use this feature in Facebook, here's how to use how to do this in Twitter. Here's how to, um, create this in Instagram. And it wound up really taking off. And I've got almost two thousand subscribers. I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but no, that's great. Yeah, but um, and that's what my channel is now. And I've always had the thing, I'm like, I just want to teach like, here's how to do this thing and here's what you should know about it. And, but I never end the conversation there. I'm like, but there's probably going to be more. I mean, that's one reason I love marketing. It changes every day. And like literally in the day, like, it's like different from one hour to the next. And there's always going to be some new video then to make about like, okay, guess what? Meta changed this again, um, you know, or YouTube is adjusting their algorithm here or whatever, or it's not cool to use hashtags anymore. And, um, so, so yeah, it's, it's always with the, here's where things stand. Now let me know if you've heard different and we'll, we'll keep following the news as it goes. So that's, that's my whole purpose. I just want people to have awareness. But always with that it's well sourced that there's like, this is, this is us actually using it and doing it. And you know, for now, this is the latest and greatest as per your knowledge. Yes, I love that. That being said, as we start to wrap up here, if someone's like starting on their podcasting journey, What is the one piece of advice that you would give to that business owner? That person that's getting ready to start in their podcasting journey? And you cannot say just press record, because that is the lamest answer ever. I'm never going to say that. Have a plan. Yes, yes, you are going to spend way more time on this than you think you are, and I don't. AI, AI or not AI. It's why we have businesses. It is. Y'all are your podcast. Okay. This stat last year, I'd love to. I need to look at it for this year. Do eighty percent of podcasts on Apple podcasts? Don't upload new episodes. I thought it was eighty. I last I heard was eighty six percent of podcasts. Don't make it past episode fifteen. Right. Which means, yeah, they're they're sitting there stagnant. This is my response when anybody asks me, it's like, well, isn't it saturated? I'm like, apparently not. You know, if you're. And. But I say that because you, if you're going to start that podcast, you better fucking finish it. Yep. Um, because you're going to need, it's not like, oh, I put an episode out. Great. Where's, where's the next one? When are you doing that one? Are you doing it every week? Are you doing it every other week? Are you doing monthly? Better be routine about it. People, if they are like, okay, I'm listening to your podcast. They're going to get pissed and drop you if they're like, you don't have a new episode when they expect it. And I want to, I want to again, I have done this, okay. I have, I have been bad. I have said, I'm going to do a podcast and I stop. I like got some episodes out and then I'm like, been there, done that stopped. So please don't think I'm trying to be miss High and Mighty. I've been here. But you. That's why you have to have a plan. You need to record far in advance. Give yourself that. Like that. I would say three to three months worth of like, I've got these in the can. guess what. Then you got to edit them and you got to put. And you can publish them, but you also need to have a title and description and the show notes and the, and the thumbnail. Or you can, you can hire people, you can hire wink wink, nudge, nudge. That's right. But yeah, have a plan. Don't just say, oh, let's just, I, I have, um, I've had personal experience with people who've done this and it drives me nuts because I'm like, well, I, I knew the way to do it. And you decided that wasn't the way. And guess what? Now you have four episodes and no more episodes. Been there, done that, I think. I think any of us that is a in podcast production has done this. This has been a hell of a lot of fun, I appreciate it. Where can people find you if they would like to reach out to you, if they would like to annoy you, if they would like to find out where to get the hair dye. Oh, which, by the way, I was going to say my hair will look a lot more like your shade of blue for your shirt on Friday because I'm getting my hair touched up. Um, so my handle everywhere is Rachel has the mic m I c. So if you want to find me on social, I'm pretty much everywhere with that. But please do go visit my website. It's. But wait, there's more. Uh, with more is spelled M o o r e because that's my last name. But wait, there's more. Uh. Com that's also the name of my Substack. Um, I'm testing that test, driving that sucker out this year. Um, just trying to see community and video together, uh, have sway. And so that's what I'm doing, but yeah, please do. And by the way, if you're in South by Southwest, uh, I don't know in this area, but you could cut this out if you're at South by Southwest. Hopefully you'll see me around, uh, Austin with my blue hair, but that's where I'm going to. So love it. Absolutely love it. Thank you once again. Truly informative. Had a lot of fun for everyone else out there. I she gave me a lot to think about. I'm going to go try and like put sunglasses on so my retinas cool off from the hair and uh, I'll be right back with a summary. Awesome. I have fun with a lot of the guests that we have on, and obviously Rachel is no exception whatsoever. Uh, really the first time that I saw a picture of her and saw the blue hair, I thought, this is someone I should probably talk to. What a great story. What a great background and what great information. There's a couple of pieces that I want to talk about in the summary here about this that I think were really interesting. The one is the trust. Trust is such a key. We like her. And I went over a little bit how social media is probably, I don't want to say fading, but it's it's looked at differently, especially by the upcoming generations. It's not as social as it once was. So what are people looking for? People are looking for that personal connection. Kind of like what I've got with you here right now. I'm making a personal connection with you. If you're listening to this, I'm writing your ears. If you're watching this. You can see I am talking directly to you. Directly to you. There's there's that personal engagement that is huge. And the big reason why that's huge is because of the aspect of trust. There's so many sheisty things that happen on the interwebs out there. People want to know who they're buying from. People want to like who they're buying from. People want to be able to connect with the people that they are buying from. They want they want to have that feeling of, hey, if something goes sideways, I know the face, I know the name, I know the personality that is connected with this. They want to have that confidence in that confidence, trust. Those are huge keys in getting people over the line. And that to me is what I want to connect with the ROI that return on investment. You can't always draw the line straight from. I heard the podcast and I ordered the stuff from you. It's not always a direct line. What there is, is there is very much a line between. Hey, I saw your brand at an event. Then I signed up for your email newsletter and I listened to your podcast and I liked your message. And then I went on to the website some random evening and finally ordered a thing from you or finally engaged with your company or I've seen you all the time on LinkedIn. That once again, that is where like the return is. It's, it's fuzzy. It's, it's not people want to tie a direct string from one piece to the next. And marketing just doesn't work quite like that. It takes touchpoints. points. It takes a number of times of seeing people. Why? Because you need to build up that trust. See how that is connected? See, that was intentional there. That being said, I'm really looking forward to the next couple of guests we have coming on. They may not necessarily have Rachel's spunk, but I do think they're going to have some really, really good information. So do me a favor. Make sure you've already hit the follow button. That is such a key that makes sure that we are going to come up on your feed, because we want to make sure that we are helping you to podcast better. Take care of yourself if you can take care of someone else too. I will see you very, very soon.