Why Most Podcasts Fail (And How to Build One That Actually Grows Your Business)

What does it really take to build a podcast that drives real business results?

In this episode, we sit down with Seth Goldstein, a podcaster, digital marketer, and founder of Goldstein Media to break down what actually works in podcasting for marketing.

From his early days in high-pressure journalism to launching multiple podcasts (and pivoting when things didn’t work), Seth shares hard-earned lessons about brand building with podcasting, avoiding burnout, and why most podcasts fail after just 10 episodes.

We dive into:

• Why you NEED a plan (but not a rigid one)
• How to pivot your podcast when it’s not working
• The truth about podcasting as a client attraction tool
• Why authenticity beats perfection every time
• How AI is shaping the future of podcasting (without replacing it)

If you’re a small business owner or marketing manager, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you turn your podcast into a marketing engine that attracts clients and builds your brand.

If you're looking to talk podcasting and get more information on how to make your podcast shine, our 30-minute "no pitch" podcast consultation is right for you!  Click the link to sign up for a time. 
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Transcript

0:00

Podcasting is filled with interesting, interesting people that some of which have a very long history in podcasting, which leads to some very big, big lessons. If you want to learn some of those, you should stay tuned. Seth, you started in the high pressure world of newspaper journalism and then flipped to podcasting, which I mean, on our end, like as producers, we're both producers. There's pressure involved with this. Not like journalism. It's not. It's got nothing. On being ideally newspaper journalist. Nothing. No, no, we're not like trying to meet that midnight deadline. And if we are, it's because we screwed something up before. Exactly, exactly. There's not this thing. How? Like how in the hell did you make the switch from newspaper journalism to podcast production? And I know you've launched The Entrepreneur's Enigma. That's your podcast that you do. Uh, how did this come to fruition? There's got to be a story behind this. Oh, there's a story which involves massive burnout from journalism because you do it, you know, every day, fifteen, twenty hours a day, you know, and you don't sleep, you know, and you get up the next day and do it again. I mean, I loved it, loved it, all that good stuff. But so then I left journalism. I went to school for journalism at the University of Delaware, left, left Delaware, got a few jobs in different newspapers in the Philadelphia, new Jersey area. And then after I burned out, I'm like, I should go to either PR or marketing. And I'm like, well, I'll go into digital marketing because I've been doing websites the whole time on the side and I'm like, hmm, okay, I can do this full time. So in your spare time, in my spare time. Exactly. Tell me about it. And then, um, so then in two thousand and eight, the best time to start a business because no one's hiring anyone. Because there's no bank. The banking crisis started goals to me, the OPP, and I've been doing that for eighteen years, helping people with SEO, websites, all that stuff. In twenty ten, I had been listening to podcasts this whole time. You know, Leo Laporte back in oh five, he started Evo Terra, um, Curry, the source code, all those. I've been listening to it all the time, but it was always back. That was back when you had to hand code your fucking RSS feed. Yep. You had to hand code it to get it out there. Google plus came around and Hangouts on Air came around. And the democratization. Hard word to say, the democratization of I did it twice. Yes. The democratization of, of podcasting kind of came around twenty ten and I was like, okay, I want to do a podcast. So I started working on what am I going to do it on? So I started one on digital, on digital marketing. I was in digital marketing. I did that for like three or four years. Had some co-hosts on it. Had some good interviews. Pivoted, did a few other podcasts. I think I've done eight podcasts in all. Prior to Digital Marketing Dive, which is one of the other podcasts I do on a monthly basis because as if I don't have enough to do that's on hiatus now, but that's on its fourth season. And entrepreneurs was a pandemic project. Oh, and, and this is where we're going. And talking about the first ten episodes don't exist anymore because it was I pivoted. It started out as me pontificating to the world about my entrepreneurial journey. Then I realized, all right, maybe one episode or guesting on someone's show and telling them, telling them about my journey. Great. But no one gives a shit for ten episodes and beyond. So I around ten episodes, I'm like, let me go back to my interviewing roots. And I started interviewing people. So I've interviewed Evo Terra, I've interviewed. I have to get Dave Jackson and Adam Currie on at some point because they're fun. Um, but I also, I also did, um, Rand Fishkin, who's the king of SEO, the, he's like the wizard of Mars. I've done guy. I had Guy Kawasaki on my program, which was like shockingly, really scary. Sweetest guy known to mankind. Yeah, but intimidating because this guy freaking Kawasaki, right? Talking about his journey in entrepreneurial journey and entrepreneurial ness and stuff like that. So yeah, that was fun. So I've done a bunch of interesting episodes three hundred and twenty episodes later, here I am, just three hundred and twenty episodes. That's all I did weekly. And a few of them were bi weekly or twice weekly because I'm insane, dude, I mentioned I'm certifiably insane. Well, and this is why once again, when. Because we met through pod match when the approach was there. And I looked at your podcast and your information and I'm like, we're, we're going to have fun. We've already had fun. Half the fun. No one's ever going to hear because before we hit record, we talked for like twenty minutes prior to this because it was such a fun chat. So one hundred percent, one hundred percent. That being said, like the business impact of entrepreneurs Enigma, how has that like, I mean, with you doing podcast production, the digital marketing, those types of things, how, what's been the big impact other than the, oh my God, I get to talk to these amazing people, um, that you get to fanboy about. Yeah. What, what, like what's been the business impact for you with those? Oh, it's been great because about two and a half years ago, I opened up the podcast, podcast mastery shingle under Goldstein Media, where I help people kind of get their podcast out of their head and onto paper and kind of figure out the formula of how to go about the show you want to do. Pontification show a one to some talking to the world. They want to do a co-host show. Do they want to do a an interview style show and how to go about it? Get the album art all together, the hosting put together and then send them out to the world. Send someone, send them to someone like you who would edit their stuff for them and whatnot. Because I, I can edit my own stuff. I couldn't do it for a bunch of people. I can help reduce it, listen to it, advise. I'm much more of a coach when it comes to the podcasting space. I coach people on how not to suck, essentially, and how to stick to it. So a lot of people will fade after a lot of people will fade after ten episodes. Yeah. No, it's we see it all the time. And especially that it's interesting because that goes back to you've talked about people should have a loose plan. Yeah. Even if it's I mean, we in a lot of cases, we cases. We encourage this, like here's the exact direction you're going to go. But you said a loose plan. What's your thought on the loose plan? I, and I'd love to hear this. Me, I just have a plan. Like literally don't go don't go into willy nilly. I mean, yes, I do the first show. Try things out. You see, if this is something you want to do. After that, sit down with a piece of paper and kind of plan out where you want to go with things. Now things are going to pivot, but don't be afraid of the pivot. Things are going to change. Look, entrepreneurs Enigma was just me pontificating for ten episodes and I was like, no one's going to listen to this shit. So I was like, okay. Like, I mean, I didn't even want to listen. My mom didn't even want to listen to it. So I was like, all right, mom doesn't want to listen to it, then I'm not going to do it. I use that same example. Yeah. My mom, my mom now listens to my show, which for better or for worse, is a good thing sometimes. So why did you curse so much in that show? I'm like, oh mom, leave me alone, I love you, but leave me alone. But ultimately, Yeah, I'm the king of the pivot. And, and so the idea is, is to kind of have a loose idea of where you want to go with the show, test it for ten episodes, see how it goes, test it for three episodes. If you're not going to want to stick with it, adjust it. If you're going to try it, don't do something you don't want to do. Because if you do something you don't want to do, you're never going to. You're never going to continue with it. I wholeheartedly agree with that. Are there three? Are there any like must have elements that someone should have in their master loose plan, their intro, they have to kind of know how to like, kind of say what the show's about without overdoing it. It should be at most 30s about, you know. Hey, thanks for coming to the show. This is who we have on the show today and let's get to it. What was that, four or five seconds? I mean, obviously a little bit longer if you have more to talk about, but you also arise. Podcasting is a commodity right now. Everyone in the grandmother does it. Not everyone. The grandmother is good at it. And you wouldn't be. You wouldn't be in the good, the bad and the ugly. You wouldn't be the good. The good. You wouldn't be the good in the good and the bad and the ugly. Yeah, because you don't want to be bad. And definitely you don't want to have it be an ugly podcast. No one wants that. No. It's funny, I always say like, like we talk about being concise with people like, shut up and get to the point. Yeah. Um, an example that I always love to give is I always ask people in the class that I teach, I'm like, hey, how many of you feel like people have zero attention span anymore? And like, everyone raises their hand and I say, great. And then I look at them. I said, now next question. How many of you have binged something for six hours or more on Netflix? And typically almost everyone keeps their hand up. And I'm like, so do you think it's attention span or do you think it's our tolerance for crap that has gone down? Yeah, there you go. And people are like, oh, and so yeah, like one hundred percent. If your podcast isn't like, I, we worked with someone a long time ago whose voice sounded like a rake on a chalkboard. Oh, a rake, no nails on a chalkboard. That's even worse. No. A rake. Yeah. No, this was this was a giant garden rake across the chalkboard. And, uh, it was, it was rough. I was. Yeah. So that to me is the. Yeah, just, it's one of those things where I sometimes need for audio. Sometimes you're not. Maybe you should write a newsletter instead. Just saying if your voice is like nails on a chalkboard, maybe or Janice from friends, that really goes back to the nineties. Hi, Chandler. Chandler. Bing. Like I couldn't do that. Or The nanny like those voices. Fran Drescher I couldn't listen to a podcast. I mean, I think she's awesome. Great actress. Gorgeous. Amazing. That voice. Holy crap. That's her voice. That would have. I know it is. That would have. I mean, that would literally have me putting a jar shaped hole in one of those walls. Exactly. Shaped hole like that. So here's a question for you in terms of the podcast, in terms of how you've used it and how you help others use it. Have you noticed that you've been able to go away from like the cold pitch that so many people are doing right now? I don't know about your inbox, but my inbox is filled with the. Yeah. So like, have you have you been able to use the podcast to get away from that cold pitch? So to say, no, no. Okay. Yeah. No, seriously, your worst nightmare is a one word answer. No, but really no, because I get cold pitched all the time, all the time. And people are the one I know. The one I love is when I'm sure you get this. Hey, I listen to your podcast. I'd love to give you a review where I can put a five star review on what platform would you prefer? I'm like this. If you're serious about it, you would have done it already and not mentioned it to me. Correct. My favorite is I co-host another show called The Business Fix. Um, it is, it's a co-hosted show. It's just Chrissy and I in the studio talking to each other. Yeah. Um, we get pitched guests all the time. And so my favorite response is to be like, who's been your favorite guest on the show so far? Um, because it's not listen to the show first before you pitch. It's not that hard. Correct. Like here, I want to talk about this and I'm like, have you listened to my show? Have you found that the podcast has worked for you in terms of you not having to pitch as much? Oh, yeah. And worked as a, as an inbound marketing tool. Oh yeah. People ask me all the time to be on their shows and I'm like, oh, sure, why not? I almost never say no unless it's something that's like completely out of left field and not interesting. It could be out of left field, but has to be interesting. So when I. I agree with that. That being said though, does that typically turn into a pipeline for you? Like as like the business side of things from time to time? I mean, it's not, it's not the biggest revenue driver, but every chance you get to talk about yourself is a chance to say, hey, I do podcast coaching or I do digital marketing. And you know, if you want to work with me, you know, reach out, that kind of thing. Like there's always, there's always a cold thing, a cold, but there's always a soft touch pitch to the listener when you're on the show that you don't normally you would never get if you weren't on that show. Totally get it, totally get it. You've said it's not radio, which for a lot of people, I said more bluntly, it's not NPR. It's not it's not Terry Gross. And we've talked about my NPR voice. Yeah, you can have a good voice, but you're still laughing and having a good time and rolling with the punches. You know, I'm sure your poor editor is gonna be like, oh my God, what's. That's all over the place. But you know, but this is but this is podcast, our show. Yeah. And this is, this is why I was looking forward to that too. To me, I love like if someone comes in to buttoned up and you're like, first off, they probably aren't going to work with you, correct? Probably not. No. If they come in too buttoned up though, what's your advice to them? Because we see it sometimes for people like, okay, I mean, you see the person that typically will sit down in the podcast studio, they're like, I want to do a podcast, but I'm nervous. And they go to sit down and they go to press record. You can start to smell the urine because they've just they've just put themselves exactly correct. And you're like, okay, we'll have to clean that up later. But how do you like, how do you get people to, to that place where they can have. Because once again, a podcast has to be a natural conversation like what we're having now. People are going to enjoy this because it's a natural conversation. It's educational, it's natural. How do you get people to talk naturally? Have them do the same episode three or four times? Interesting. Like they'll do it the first time and it'll suck every time. I start a new podcast and I've been doing this for fifteen years. The first three episodes are awful. Sometimes I'll still put them out to the world because I'm like, they're halfway decent. The first episode of Digital Marketing Dive, this was in twenty eighteen, and I've been podcasting since twenty ten, and we did it in an echoey room. The audio was shit, the conversation was great. And I said, look, guys, I'm sorry. The conversation is really good. The audio sucks, but I think it's worthwhile to put it out there if you don't listen to it. Here's the transcript that we barely could get because it was so freaking echoey. So here's here's the key points of what we talked about. And here's the timestamps of where you can jump around. I do not expect you to listen to this whole thing through because it's like nails on a chalkboard. But I said I thought it was worthwhile to put out there because it's still good information and it's kind of like you. It's again, it's not NPR, right? No, I, I totally agree. And I, to me, it's showing that vulnerability and showing that like, hey, this isn't perfect. Um, this is, this is honestly who I am. Yeah. Um, is, is, is really of, it's a big deal. It is. Um, I still remember the time for me. I, when I knew it was a big deal is I worked at a semi truck dealership and I had a YouTube channel selling to sell semi trucks. Wow. And yeah, that's, that's a, that's a niche. Yeah. Oh, it was, but I had nineteen thousand subscribers. Wow. Um, this is so people will watch anything. Could they will also your your silky voice, if it relates to voice and you're all buttoned up and all that stuff. So it's like, you know, well, I wasn't, I wasn't as buttoned up for that. I was selling trucks. I was not, I was. It was, it was usually a golf shirt. But yeah, so I just had someone walk into my office and he's like, hey, Josh, how's it going? And I'm like, who in the hell is this guy? What happens to me all the time in my town, in my town, I'm like, hey, Mike, I think and I'm not famous by any stretch of the imagination. I'm like a Z list celebrity. I can't go beyond Z. I'm like, negative Z, the celebrity. But I'll be in Philadelphia, which is a big freaking city. And someone will almost definitely recognize me at some point during that day in Philadelphia from the it's from the podcast. No, no, it's from me being online prolifically. Not so much. The podcast from LinkedIn or. But it also ties back to the podcast. They're like, hey, I listened to the latest episode. I'm like, oh geez, which one was that? I'll pull my phone real fast and look up which one it was and how bad it might have been. That's always fun. I love that you you've recently you've mentioned podcast mastery. Um, I thought you said, hey, man, I gotta record. I gotta clip that podcast mastery you recently. So I'll do it in the. You've recently pivoted to podcast mastery. Um, yeah, well, I've done voiceover work is, um, I got chills. Like how like the mastery in that is that for podcasting in general, is that for the marketing side of it, like, is there a specific gear towards it in general, or is it client specific for you? Oh, it has to be client specific. It has to be as much as you're looking at what they want to accomplish. I mean, there's systems that go into everything, but it's, it's not like here's a package. We're going to go through the same course every single time. No, I've never been one to button something up perfectly. It might be my ADHD, whatever you believe in or whatever you want to call it. Everyone's like, he's ADHD. I couldn't tell, but, but the but the whole idea is that it's per the client and it's per session. And then I have like a monthly retainer that gets you access to all my resources and gets a fifteen minute call with me after our first five sessions. I usually like to say that I'm cheaper than a lawyer, more expensive than a shrink, even though that's that shrink cost is creeping up lately. But, you know. No, seriously, I'm two I'm two fifty a session. And and most therapists around a buck fifty, most lawyers are around four fifty. So kind of joke, but they're not doing research. They're not doing research, not diving in on stuff. Exactly. So yeah, they're doing the research while you're sitting there on the couch. And I always find it entertaining because one of the studios that we produce out of it has a chair and a couch. And I always joke that like it, like literally looks like it should be a therapy session. And it was never, it was a therapy office at some point. No, it was at it's at a college. So it was general furniture. So yeah, it's yeah, they had left over. They left over for you. Yeah. Give him a, give him a couch and a, a chair. Call it a day. We'll put that in the podcast studio. That being said, like, this is one of my favorite questions. And this is the one where I think we're going to go probably a little bit off the rails, but I think it's going to be a good thing. We haven't already. Correct? Correct. Well, we're gonna go really well. Let's go. Let's do it. A lot of rails. Um, what do you see as the future for podcasting? Because to me, there is a wide world out here. And the answers that I have gotten when it comes to this have varied one hundred and eighty degrees from each other. What are your thoughts? I think people need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that they can still do a podcast, that it's not saturated, that you can find your niche and you can, you can keep going and have a good audience. You're not going to be Joe Rogan. You're not going to be Mel Robbins. You're not going to be Kelly Roach. They have these big audiences because they all came from somewhere else and brought their audiences with them, and that's the reason why they have the big plays. I mean, you do see the like, what's your name? Alex, from her daddy. She just has a personality for her. Hala Taha from, you know, Media. They have a personality for it. Yep. But you're not going to beat them. Most likely you're going to be a smaller podcast. But there's nothing wrong with that. Just get started and have fun. I, I love that. Do you see? It's also interesting too, because like the audience size too is like who you're trying, who people are trying to appeal to. Um, I see so many people that like want to appeal to everyone and I'm like, no, no one's going to connect with you then. No. Um, absolutely. Even Joe Rogan doesn't appeal to everybody. No, try. And he doesn't try. He's unapologetically like, if you don't like what I have to say, get the hell get the well, he says, get the f out, you know, but like, yep, no, I and I, and I think that is why the people that listen to him feel so strongly about him, because that's like three and a half freaking hours. Jesus. Yeah. No, there's like a lot of the three and a half hour ones I cannot do. I, I listen to Chris Williamson. Oh, yeah. Um, who will go a little bit longer in some cases, but I think he he tries to keep it at least somewhat concise. No, I love Leo Laporte from the Twit network. He goes, he is commonly as two and a half hour shows with Co, but with co-hosts. And he's constantly, you know, putting his foot up his butt on on things. And it's fun to see the train wreck that is his show. And I love him and I love, I admire him and he's a role model for me. But the banter on these shows of people saying, Leo, you're wrong about something is there to watch because it's just so much fun and he has fun with it, and that's the key. You can tell Leo has fun with his shows because he he's like, here's my idea. And then Jeff Jarvis, who's a, you know, esteemed journalism professor or Paris Marinaw, who's a Consumer Reports reporter, will like, literally rake him over the coals saying, Leo, come on, buddy, you know, about AI or whatever. It's so it's worth it's worth the listen. So it's, I, I feel kind of the same way. Not as bad, but in terms of people raking him over the coals. But Scott Galloway. Oh, God, he gets a lot. And, uh, but I mean, he's there for it. Oh, he owns it. And he's like, I am an acquired taste. Take it or leave it or take it and then bitch about it. But whatever it is, what it is. And I used to I love how they don't do it as much anymore on markets, but he used to start out with a ridiculously offensive joke. And what I, what I always used to love about that, I'm like, look, if you're offended by that, you're not going to like the rest of the show. So you may as well get the hell off after that. Exactly right. Just get the hell out early. If if you don't like that, the rest of the show is not for you either. So just get out early. And so the question that I have that kind of stems from the future of that though, with AI. Mhm. Um, we, I mean, just because first off, it's the hot topic. So we have to talk about it for the algorithms. Um, Uh, you can't avoid it. You can't avoid it. And it's to me, it's the the like, what do you see? Like, does AI take over podcasting or. No? I think I, I don't think AI is gonna take over anything. I think it's going to supplement podcasting. I think, you know, inflection point AI that does, you can tell I listen a lot. I listen to a lot. I listen to Pod News weekly, I listen to podcasting two point zero. So I mean, I listen to those guys all the time. So I know, you know, it's all about them making their guests over the calls. Not the best fan of that, James. But you know, after the after the interview, he then says this person's completely wrong and full of shit. And I'm like, dude, they're never going to come back on your show again. But anyhow, I digress. So James, I love him, but he is such a Brit. Yep. Oh, he is such a Brit. And then him and Adam Curry go head to head in because their shows are back to back and they go at each other. Oh it's oh it's a actually I put something on Mastodon. I said, I want to say a cage match between those two. Oh. And they thought that was funny. But anyhow, love it. AI is going to have a place in podcasting to supplement, you know, the transcripts supplement the clips. I use AI for entrepreneurs Enigma because I have months of episodes already done. I remember a lot of my episodes, but I'll be able to find the best clip. No. So I let AI find it. Then I'll clean it up a little bit and do all that. I'll have the transcripts because I'm not going to listen to these shows five or six times. Henry, a transcript. You have to be insane to do that. But these shows from, you know, was it inception point AI? There are straight AI, garbage, slop. They're not going to go anywhere. Eventually, people are going to be like, unless you're really into gardening and there's a good tip. Fine. All right. Maybe it's a place for it. But like ultimately AI, I think everyone's going to figure out a way to use AI to their benefit. Now we'll kill the environment. We'll kill the planet. Possibly in the process. But everything. There's always a side effect to everything. Sure. Really bad side effect here. But you know. But the idea is, is that if you're not using AI in some way, you're gonna be left behind. You have to at least know how to use it to your benefit. Is it going to take things over? No, I don't think so. So when someone's starting out, what is the right, so do I. Um, it's, uh, I still remember how we got into podcasting is, uh, great story. I did, uh, I did, uh, something for a political candidate. The, the manager of the campaign called me and said, hey, one of my other clients, he goes, he's got a podcast. You edit those. And I'm like, is there a check attached? And he goes, yeah, I said, we edit those. Uh, yeah, that's how you fall into that. Yeah, that's how we got into it is, um. What is I mean, through the years. What is that thing that you wish like before people started podcasting that they would ask and be like, hey, what mistake am I going to make that I could avoid right off the bat by just saying, hey, oh, let me talk to the experienced person. You're still going to make mistakes. You're just going to make him not as bad as you would if you didn't talk to me. You're not going to avoid the mistakes. Like everyone says, learn from my mistakes. It's bullshit. You're going to make the same goddamn mistakes. You're just gonna. It's my baby. A lot less painful because you'll catch it halfway through. It won't be as poignant of a mistake because it'd be like, you'll like, you'll forget to hook up your microphone and you'll be on the webcam microphone, but then you'll be like, all right, you catch halfway through, you quickly off to the side, you'll turn on your microphone real fast, and then you have to use some AI to call back there to level everything out later. Like I've done that where I've done a whole show on my computer microphone, not my webcam that's actually halfway decent on my computer microphone, which was garbage. And this was before they had studio sound in the script. Oh my God, I couldn't use the podcast. The reverb was horrible. I was just like, I had to rerecord it three times because every time I did it, I did something else wrong. This is bad. This is this was back in, I think, twenty twelve. So this is like back when this was like not hard coding your RSS feeds, but this was back when you like, you were using audacity to record. Yes, yes. It's funny you say those mistakes. Um, we try not to make them. We have I mean, I'm a former operations manager. I have a checklist and a process for everything. Mhm. Um. still goes sideways sometimes. All the time. Um, sometimes all the time. Always something that's going to happen. It always happens. Yeah. It's learning how to roll with the punches. And that's when I go back to my journalism days. Shit hit the fan all the time. For for police radios going off at the same time. You had to discern which one you had to pay attention to. Shit was hitting the fan and you had to figure out what shit you were going to go to. So yeah, that's amazing. I to me, like, what's the biggest crossover between that newsroom and the podcasting? I mean, for you, what, like what area? Like, what skill came from the newsroom straight to podcasting? The interview was the most helpful. Most people are like, well, how do you do? You set up all your questions ahead of time? I'm like, I don't prep for my shows. I'll read about the person, but I know where I'm going with the show. I'm a classically trained journalist. Yep. I have a very formulaic show. We shoot the shit for the first fifteen minutes, and then I have three questions and then we go in, you know, and we go with it. People are always like, you know, how are you doing? I'm like, because I actually, I had to beat it into my head with a stick. Not literally. I've been a college student abuse, but like literally beaten into my head on how to do an interview correctly and what you did wrong on that interview. And like, you redlined everything. My journalism professor, who I'm still friends with, who's actually a client of mine who does a podcast. Now the tables have turned. He's my student now, and I always joke with Ben. Ben Yagoda, he used to write for the New York Times, all that stuff, like, you know, like from the cream of podcast of journalists. Yeah. And he's asking me about podcasting. I'm like, uh, kind of intimidating, kind of intimidating, like the guy who every single one of his books back there, he's writing a book on irony. Isn't that ironic? Yeah, that really is. I can't read and I can't wait to read it because these books are fantastic. What is the one thing that interviewers screw up the most? They read their questions. No. There's a pregnant pause there for a reason. It's knowing your questions, glancing at them if you get stuck, but it's preparing for it beforehand and knowing where your questions are. I've been doing Entrepreneurs Enigma. Man, I had the Hardest Thing podcast. I need to say entrepreneurs Enigma. Oh I know. I practiced it beforehand. Oh my God, it's a tough one. Um, but I've been doing this for five years now. Yeah, I, you know, and up until recently, I had this, this one card actually, I still have it on my desk here. My main question, it's from a pod deck. Pod decks. A guy named I forget his name all of a sudden Josh Brown put out there. Travis Brown, Travis Brown. I forgot the guy's name. Right. I'm sorry, Travis, but he put out these interview questions on playing cards and one card out of all of them I use. I have not touched. I have three of his decks. I have one card I keep on my desk, the original from his from his deck. And it's I use it every single time. I'm sure you want to know what the question is. You're dying to hear what the question was about to say. I'm just going to sit here and wait until eventually, what is the most important thing to carry with you all the time? Oh, exactly. That's a great and that is an editing nightmare because people go, oh, and then five, six, seven, eight, nine 10s go by and I have to go back in and make a note saying the guy paused for more than three seconds on this. I have to pull that back. Yeah, that's interesting. I, I ask an adjacent one. In many cases, that is what's something that you're working on that you're excited about? Oh, that's exactly right. Instead of the because I hate the how are you? I mean, for this. Okay. We knew we were going. That's why we started with. How are you? Very first thing. Good, good. How's the weather? How's the weather? Right, right. Wonderful. No time for episode two. How's the weather? Might be. Snowing today, but by the time the episode comes out, it's gonna be sunny and eighty degrees. Well, I'm in Ohio, so that could be. That could. That was like, literally, that's the difference from Saturday to Monday. Oh, no, no, I'm in Philly. That's the difference between morning and night. Yeah. No, it can be. It can be. Yeah. Is uh, but no, I, I, if I truly want to learn something about someone that is my go to question and that's a, that is what is something. Wow. I like that one too. Yeah. That, I mean, with that, the, the one that I always asked kind of wrap up. Yeah. If you've got one piece of advice for a business owner, for a marketer that is working on starting the podcast, thinking about starting the podcast, like starting to get into it, you cannot say just press record. No, because that is the lamest, dumbest answer ever. Um, what's that one piece of advice you're going to give him? Make sure you have headphones because. Oh yes. The microphone. Microphone. Yes. I guess that's that's the second one. But if you say, you know, just press record, you're going to get a reverb going through from your it's going to be horrible. Headphones prevent that. Headphones are key. Yes. Isn't helped by echo cancellation. Even then, sometimes you can't save yourself. No no no no no no, I, I when the microphone has to discern what's coming out of your face and what's coming out of the computer, it's got a, it's got an uphill battle to face headphones. Yeah. And they don't have to be expensive. Do these they're a cases and they're like fifty bucks. I was like, whatever. I had to get one with wire if you want to hear yourself back. But if you don't. Honestly, Anker makes sound cause they're great wireless headphones over the ear. Headphones look snazzy, look the part and all that. But if you're going to start podcasting or be a guest on podcast, invest in some equipment. It's not that expensive. And also don't have your spouse do the dishes next door to your studio while you're on the podcast. I'm assuming you've experienced that. Yeah. Oh, come on, don't tell me you even experienced weird stuff happening. Like people walking by in boxer shorts. Oh, no. We've had. Yeah. No, we share a wall with someone who will occasionally, like, talk to someone, like, ridiculously loud and all those other things. So yeah, no, I, I, I, as you said, can't make this shit up. There's always something that is going to go sideways, something. And sometimes you can edit that out, sometimes you can't. So right. Sometimes it's just leave it in because remember, it's not NPR. Correct. That being said, where can people find you? That's not NPR. That's supposed to find me is social dot. Goldstein. May I? Podcasting one hundred and one e-book. You can get that podcast mastery dot co. It requires the email address. I promise I won't spam you, but you'll get it. The forty. No. Oh, no. I welcome the spam. Yeah. There you go. It's a, it's a thirty page book on podcasting. It's free. Besides giving me your email address. So love it. Absolutely love it. This has been an absolute blast. We are going to need to revisit this some other time too. I appreciate the time today. And uh, yeah, for everyone else, I will be back. Um, I have to like gather myself. Seth is pretty well. Stirred my brain and stirred and shaken. So I will be right back. Yeah. Seth. Thank you again. Always a pleasure, my friend. I believe Seth and I could have talked for two or three hours because we had a tangent here and a tangent there. And in many cases, you guys know I want an episode to stay more concise, but I feel like when we started to go down a road that was a little bit different or even a little bit off topic, we would always bring it back. And there was always really good information and good insights in it. And that to me is one of the things that I love, and it's why I want to talk about like the type of guest you have on. When I went out and I looked at Seth podcast, his information and all that other stuff, I knew he was going to be a really good guest because he's lively, he's entertaining, he's energetic. There's there's a charisma there that he has that's just wonderful. And I knew that even if the conversation got a little bit off the rails as it did, first off, he's a professional. He's going to know how to bring it back. Second off, I knew it was also going to be entertaining enough to keep people like yourself hanging on long enough for us to bring it back. To me, that's where some of the gold is in finding the right cast. You're going to get great information and it's also going to be entertaining in the process. If you can find a way to both educate and entertain your audience at the same time, that truly is where the gold is in podcasting. Because once again, you've got their attention through the entertainment, and then you're going to add that educational piece onto the back end of it. Additionally, to me as the host, I feel like every single time I have someone on, I am learning something. And sometimes it's learning about how to be a better host. Sometimes it's about learning how to get better guests. Any way you look at it, it's about that education and it's about entertainment. Now, I also realized that Seth entertainment and my entertainment could be very different than some other people's. I'm okay with it. I am not trying to have a broad reach. I am trying to have a reach to the people that I want to work with, the ones that would want to work with me. That is where the gold truly is. With all that, I wanted to keep this short today. Do me a favor. Take care of yourself. If you can take care of someone else too. I will see you very, very soon.