How Authentic Podcasting Builds Trust & Clients in Construction Marketing

Can podcasting really help construction and industrial brands build trust, authority, and clients? In this episode, Wes Towers of Uplift 360 shares how authentic conversations, not polished marketing fluff, are becoming one of the most powerful tools for business growth.

Wes breaks down how he accidentally became a podcaster, why construction audiences value honesty over perfection, and how podcast clips and short-form content are driving discoverability in today’s “search everywhere” world.

If you’re a business owner, marketer, or podcaster trying to stand out in an AI-saturated content landscape, this conversation is packed with practical insights on podcasting for marketing, brand building with podcasting, and using authentic content to attract clients.

Topics covered include:

• Why authenticity beats overproduced marketing
• Building trust with podcasting
• Turning one podcast into dozens of marketing assets
• How podcast clips drive discoverability
• Podcasting for construction & industrial brands
• Search Everywhere Optimization vs traditional SEO
• Why storytelling still wins in long-form content
• The reality of entrepreneurship behind the scenes
• How to find your voice as a podcaster

Whether you're launching a podcast for your business or trying to improve your content strategy, this episode offers actionable advice for using podcasting as a serious business asset.

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Transcript

0:00

I've accidentally done a lot of things in my life, but podcasting was not one of those things. You may guess this week's guest. That's exactly how he got into podcasting accidentally. How? Stay tuned. You'll find out. Wes, thanks for coming on. You run uplift three hundred sixty and you're helping Australian construction and industrial brands build trust. Um, you said you you've wanted to to say something real. What was it where you started to notice there's like a lot of fluff or like fake in the marketing in and I know your people will figure out you're from Australia here in a second is like, when did you see like that fake and fluffiness to in like the marketing of construction stuff where you said, I'm going to do this. Yeah. Well, it's been a growing trend, I suppose, that we've grown to distrust marketing to a large degree, because we know anyone can say whatever they like about their own business, and they will. And so we we realize it's not necessarily trustworthy. But when I started to take a hold of lots of things, but certainly taking hold of the marketing content that a lot of people are producing, you know, that AI, um, generic brand information, um, even, you know, the first thing was the, the written content, but then the videos even and the photographs and just an erosion of trust, I think to a large degree. And I thought, okay, what do I actually value in business and its human connections and relationships? And I think these elements are what we build trust on. So that's why I've sort of changed gears a little bit. Gone counter. Um, we use AI to a large degree, but we don't want to do that at the detriment of losing trust and authenticity. And, that human connection. So that's, that's where it really, I think it became pretty, pretty bad, really the, the authenticity was, is, is being eroded dramatically. And I think we need to do something about reversing that. I it's funny, I wholeheartedly agree with that because like, occasionally I will see something that happens where I'm like, okay, this has defied the laws of physics. It looks okay ish, but there's something in there that defies the laws of physics. And yet I see comments on it. Like people are like looking at this stuff like, hey, that's amazing. And I'm like, no, it's, it's really not. Yeah, yeah. Like, how have you done this with the conversations? Because I, I mean, in looking at your podcast, you've brought a number of people on what, like when you started these conversations, what was the goal with that? I was an accidental podcaster. Realistically, I thought I'd guest on a few, uh, I thought I'd guest on a few podcasts and, you know, just to get brand awareness and, and I love talking to people. So I thought it was a good opportunity. But having done quite a few, I thought, hey, maybe I should try my hand at it. Um, and, uh, yeah, accidentally fell into doing the podcast and figured out a lot of stuff on the fly. No, no, by no means an expert like yourself. Um, but I suppose the content is always the key, isn't it? So, um, and just having real conversations because I work with, um, you know, trades, construction, industrial brands, they're really down to earth, pragmatic people. So they don't want a whole lot of fluff. Um, and they don't need a whole lot of polish as well. They just want authentic, real conversations that are going to help them grow their businesses typically. And it's, I mean, it's challenging times in a whole lot of ways. So people are looking for an edge and looking for a way sometimes even just to get through. But, you know, looking to, to grow and expand in difficult times. So that's why they like to tune in to something that's real. I love that, and it's the. I've noticed there is that grit in some cases to yours because you're recording most of yours remotely also with other people. Correct. And a lot of them don't necessarily show up with setups like what we have. Nah. Yeah. Sometimes the, uh, the guests are pretty, have a pretty rough, uh, audio setup, which isn't, it's not ideal. I mean, I think the sound is the, is the key. The video. Sure you can. You can cope with a terrible video as long as the sound is a reasonable quality. Um, and, uh, you can get through it. Most people are listening anyway for hours. It's certainly the most, most people are listening on Spotify. A few people watch on video and so on as well. But, um, yeah, the focus is, I think because a lot of our guys are driving around from site to site working on the job, a lot of times, you know, they've got a lot of time in their car. Um, so listening it makes sense for them. That really does. I mean that to me, it just really dawned on me like, you're definitely meeting people like your clients where they are. They're in the car, they're driving around, they need something to listen to. It's during the workday so they can feel like it's work. They can feel like they're getting something done, and they're getting that educational piece out of it. The other piece with that is too, is I kind of like the authenticity with it, because most people don't expect construction people to be recording in a great studio, maybe in their office maybe. And I mean, especially in one of those construction site trailers. Um, yeah, you could, you could see that. Yeah. That being, that being said, you, I mean, you've also said like it podcasting's about like giving one conversation multiple lives. And I think that's a great, great quote. How do you like manage the workflow of like, turning this into turning that one thirty minute, thirty minute or so conversation into those sharper messaging pieces that were like a really usable for people. Yeah, the reels and so on the video, the shorts always get, um, more views overall than, you know, by the time he sliced it and dice it so many times. Um, and some take off and some don't. It's a, it's a curious thing. So you might post the same content on multiple platforms and one platform will give it a lot of views and the other not so much. So there's a bit of like, it's kind of like, um, it's kind of like fishing. You cast the net out and sometimes you catch nothing and sometimes you catch an abundance of fish. But if you continually follow a process and, and, um, keep consistent with it, eventually you'll catch, you'll catch some fish. So yeah, we use opus clips to do the, to do a lot of those shorts really fast. There's, there's lots of those types of platforms. Um, and we could probably do, do them to a to a better degree, um, being a little bit more intentional and manual with it, but it's just an efficiency of time realistically. So, uh, we post, you know, twice a day, um, something so five a m and five p m because, you know, our time zone is a little different for, for a lot of, a lot of the world. Um, so being on the other side of the planet, so we're catching different people at different times and sometimes people are worried, are you posting too much? That's, that's not how it works because no one's online. Well hopefully not. Hopefully they're not the same audiences online at five a m and five p m uh, sometimes they will be. But, you know, hopefully some of us get some sleep at some stage so people will bump into some of the information and not the rest. And that's fine. And we're online marketers. So, um, you know, you don't need to over worry about overwhelming your audience because they'll, You know, all the platforms are pretty clever at, um, serving what's right for the right people at the right time. So yeah, just put it out there and, uh, it works really well. Uh, so you're going to an international audience with this. You're trying. I mean, because like I said, people probably by now have figured out your Australian. Um, yeah, you're trying to, you're trying to reach out to basically any English speaking audience then. Yeah, absolutely. So we, because we serve clients all around the world, um, most of them are here in Australia just because, you know, I've been operating the business here for a long, long time. And, you know, you bump into people and so on. And people do work with those that they know, like, and trust, but the, the knowing and liking piece and hopefully the trust piece is all, you know, geared around podcasting. It's a powerful platform to, to set up those foundations which are foundational for any marketing. And that's, um, a massive plus for what we're doing, you know, being in the online marketing world, there's a lot of rogues and a lot of, um, distrust, I suppose. So anything we can do? Yeah. So anything we can do to build authority and trust and because we're niched as well, so we don't, we're not a generalist agency. And so it's not about our location so much as that we understand their specific industry and we know how to create great outcomes for those particular customers. So yeah, it's we can work with anyone all around the world. And that's why podcasting is pretty powerful for us. Maybe it wouldn't be so great if we were just a little local agency that dealt with the local businesses around us. Um, maybe it wouldn't be the right platform for those types of businesses. It's interesting you say that because like the and there's two things that I want to go into on that you said, first off, like you're, you're so niched in your industry and like you're covering construction and that's, that's it. Have you been construction from the beginning? No, that was also by accident. I'm a podcaster. By accident. I'm by accident. It almost found me. So what happened? We started the age. I started the agency at the very start. It was just myself. Um, but then obviously built out a team from there. And we were doing we were a generalist agency at the start, but I knew the power of niching and being specific. If you go for something specific, you'll typically get it or land somewhat close to it at least. Um, and so I knew the power of niching and I realized most of our better clients were in a similar field, not all, but for the most part, they were in construction related building materials, industrial brands. So it just the niche found me. And people often think, oh, you know, you must have a construction background or some sort of trade background. Not at all. I'm, I'm useless at picking up a hammer or, um, I don't know what end of the screwdriver to hold all that kind of stuff. It's not me at all, but for whatever reason, I relate really well to these founder led businesses. So because I said, as I said before, they're practical, pragmatic, down to earth, hands on. Um, that's kind of how I am. I really try to avoid lingo and jargon and, um, all that sort of stuff doesn't, um, doesn't connect very well with, with our audience. And that's naturally how I am. So yeah, I, I love that and it's kind of funny because we, we've got a couple of areas that we serve and one of them's like legal and oh yeah, I have, I have no like background in legal. Um, in fact, I, I'm friends with a few police officers, but that's about as close as I get. And, uh, so I haven't spent much time in court. No, no, thank goodness I have not spent really any time in court. So that's a but yet we do a number. And once again, it was kind of by accident that we found our way into that. That's interesting. The other thing that I want to go back to is the you mentioned the know, like and trust. And that's something that we talk about all the time. And it's really, it's interesting because it really plays into your show title. Built, trusted, chosen. Um, which I, I truly love because it's simple, it's direct and it's like, yeah, and it's got built in there, which can take on the meaning of construction or what, how you have to build trust and all those other things. How like the podcast itself, has it been a good lead generator for you also in terms of being able to talk to people or in terms of being able to get connections with people on, on things like that? Yeah, definitely. It's for the most part, it's just a great, great support mechanism. And I don't know if I can solely put lots of jobs on the podcast, but certainly there was a great client who came came through Recently, as a as a result of not even the podcast, but the reals, all of a sudden it started engaging with different outtakes from the podcast. I don't know that she ever listened to a full podcast she may have done, but I know all of a sudden, because she liked a few things. And as these, as these platforms do, if you engage with something, you get more of it. So she was all of a sudden seeing me all over the place and the guests, of course. But when the time came that she needed an agency, uh, it was the natural fit. So because my little face was popping up on her phone all the time. So yeah, definitely it works to a, you know, powerfully even, you know, to support as part of your whole marketing strategy. I think it's, it's been great. It certainly helped get us a few clients over the line that are probably a little bit bigger than what we might have won previously. We're a small agency, so it can be sometimes difficult to beat the, the bigger agencies. Sure. Um, you know, with the big, shiny offices in the city where we're lean and mean and not mean, but we're, we're leaning, um, agile. Uh, yeah. So, you know, it's helped us, uh, punch above our weight for sure. That's, it's interesting because we found that too. And the, what we found also, and I, I, I'm open for just really open for discussion on this is when we're working with clients. It's not like the podcast isn't what gets discovered. It truly is that constant flow of content that is going to. And that's what's going to get them recognized, like releasing. We've talked, we, I came from a video background where someone would record a video, they'd post it and that video would be like their hero video. And they're expecting to get business from that. And that used to help them be like, oh, hey, look, they've got this nice, neat video. They're not a mom and pop shop. Um, but now it is like to me, it's when someone searches for lawyers. There's this constant feed of video that they can go out and find twenty, thirty, forty videos from them that had like, and it's the short ones that they can watch and they can scroll through. And I feel like that's where the discoverability is anymore. And it's not necessarily the podcast. And I mean, you create the podcast to, I guess my question is in it, are you guys creating the podcast with the clips in mind to a, to a certainly more in recent times, I've had that up to try and say something that might be a little bit more, um, clickbaity I suppose might be the way of looking at it, but some, some little hook. Yeah, just trying to frame it up and even to try and frame it up in a way that the guest might say something super concise but interesting having I'll typically listen to other, get. You know, they would have guessed it on other shows. So listen to a few of those just to get a grasp of what I think their answers might be. And I'm trying to shape it in a way that I get what I want out of them without. They don't know what I'm up to, but I'm trying to get that answer that I heard somewhat in a different show, but I'm trying to get it in a nice bite sized piece on on my show. I'm trying to get yeah, trying to get better at that as well. It's just something that is in the back of my mind to think about how we can get little juicy pieces out of the show and, um, you know, it needs to feel natural and flow naturally. So that's why I don't tell the guests what, what I'm up to, but I'm certainly trying to do that more and more. It's interesting because, I mean, I'm sure you've probably realized this too, as podcasting is very much a skill and whether it be being a host or being a guest, there are certain ones of us that are given a little bit more base talent to build off of than others. The same way there's someone that's a better soccer or football or basketball player than others. I'm five. I'm five foot nine. I was never going to be a basketball star. Um, but it's interesting to me how it's this skill that constantly needs that work where we're trying to like, okay, what can I do to make this better? What can I do? The example that I always like to give is so many people see it as like, okay, well, I drove to work, therefore I'm a race car driver. Um, and it's like, no, that's not it. Just because you can talk doesn't mean you're a good podcaster. And it's one of those things that we need to build over time. Um, speaking of that, you've talked, like you mentioned that podcasting and I want to read this. Podcasting is not about polish, but about clarity and honesty. Um, has there been an unpolished moment or a raw, honest mistake that took you by surprise in terms of the messaging that came out of it, or what it did or the good it did or anything like that. Yeah. So sometimes there's been a number of little insights that someone might speak on just by accident almost, you know, something that's happening in their personal life. Um, you know, it's not on topic of what they're on the show about, but, uh, those, those little elements can be really, uh, interesting because it's revealing something deeper of the person. So I think there's a, a desire to engage with the, you know, to understand the person as a person, not just the content of, you know, the insights that they might be able to help someone achieve in their business. But just behind the scenes, poking, poking in there. The storytelling aspect, I think, is where that comes from. So I listened to one of your other podcasters and they were talking about how our attention span is diminished greatly, but if you're watching Netflix, you can sit there all day type thing. I think he had a take on it that we have attention span if the content is is quality, which I agree with. But also I think we listen to a Netflix because there's story. So we can engage with long form content if it's story, because that's how we're wired as humans to understand. So if there's a trace elements of story and sometimes it's jumping around just like a movie does, sometimes there's multiple storylines and they somehow converge eventually. I think some of those elements of the human outside of work are really powerful and helpful for us to understand what's going on to a higher degree in that storytelling, um, framework. So sometimes I just nudge into those, lean into those type of comments. Um, and it takes a little bit of, uh, you know, thinking through that of how to do that on the fly. So, uh, yeah, as you said, you kind of some people are skilled at podcasting. I don't think I am a natural podcast, but I'm getting better each each episode, I think, and getting better at trying to draw out the insights, um, in a, in a natural way and listening to a couple of your shows. No, I, it's funny because I always like to get the array of people when I'm going to have them on as a guest. And I, I went back a little ways and stuff like that. And it's always interesting because when you, even if you go back five or six episodes, if someone's intentional about it, you can hear that difference. And, uh, you can tell when someone's truly trying to work on it as a skill. And it turns out wonderfully, um, from the, one of the things that I always like to talk about is people spend far too much time worrying about cameras, microphones and everything. And it's like, okay, you should spend the time getting to be a better podcaster instead of the best camera or whatever. Is there a technical thing that used to drive you nuts where you're now like, I could care less and you're more about the story? Um, I've just made really a simple system. So I publish as if live. So it's recorded one take and, and goes out as it was. Unless there's something that's going to put us in jail, it goes out as it is. There's something totally egregious. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the way we do the show. So it's um, I've just tried to minimize the workload with it. Um, I don't know whether it's the right decision, but it was right for our audience, I think, I don't think it's right for every audience and every podcast. I think others might need to be a little more polished than ours is. Um, but yeah, for, for our audience target market, I think it's perfect that raw and that raw element. Um, so I don't really worry too much. Initially, I used to do the pre-show interviews and freak out a little bit if they were in a, you know, a site office with beeping, you know, you know, machinery in the background and all that kind of stuff. I used to worry a little bit, but now I don't. I just worry about the, the, the capacity of that guest to, to say something interesting. You know, you can, you can run the podcast through all sorts of AI platforms to clean up the audio as well, which has been a massive plus plus as well. Just to tidy the audio up as best you can. But, um, I don't worry too much about the video. It was interesting. You said the like the beeping and stuff like that in the background because like, once again, you're talking about authentic and you're talking about trusted. Um, if you want to hear from construction people. Yeah, you're going to hear backup buzzers in the background, huh? Yeah. If they're on site, you're going to hear you're, you're gonna, there's probably three things that you're going to hear. You're going to hear swearing, you're going to hear yelling, and you're going to hear backup buzzers. Yeah. Get the jackhammer going. And, uh, that can be a little bit problematic, right? As long as you can still hear the guest, you're in good shape. Yeah. Yeah. You've also said you kind of you view podcasting as a serious business asset. Um, as you look ahead, like what are future plans that you're looking for, for built, trusted, chosen or podcasting in general? Like when you, when you look into your crystal ball for the future? Um, what are some of the things that you see up ahead? We've, uh, we provide a service search engine optimization, but we call it search everywhere optimization. And to foresee, you know, it used to be an attempt to rank as highly as you can in Google, but now you're trying to show up in large language models. So the way I see it is the more content we can produce that's authentic and published on multitude, a multitude of platforms. I think podcasting is the easiest way to do that. And that's why a one of the reasons why we're doing it. So to show up to optimize your online experience. I think it's going to stand us in good stead for the long term. Um, so that's yeah, that's what we're kind of looking at for seeing how search engine optimization search everywhere optimization is, is going and how we can get in in a great position for the long term. I think those that make power plays right now might find it a lot easier in the future, because it's going to become very difficult to stand out when everyone's, um, doing the same things. You know, everyone's using the same tools and techniques to, to show up in the marketplace. I think those that can get ahead of the crowd right now, um, using tools like podcasting are going to be having, they will have built a level of authority already where it's going to be hard to, to get that authority, uh, down the, down the line, I think. It's funny you mention that standing out piece and that, I mean, one hundred percent explains my outfit. Do I wear a tie sitting on the couch at home? No. Um, but I see so many in the podcasting industry leaning into the hobo look or homeless look where I'm like, okay, let's, let's go the opposite direction. So I, it's funny. It's that finding that ways to stand out. And I still believe that, like I said, podcasting is a great way to do that. If there was a brave conversation that you feel that your industry, that the construction industry needs to have, but you haven't had that on the mic yet, what what is the thing that your industry you feel like desperately needs to hear? Yeah. Well, it's turbulent times right around the world. We have a global audience, but there's massive headwinds, obviously. Right. You know what's happening globally right now, um, with building materials. So the And, you know, sometimes what will happen is, you know, people in the construction industry might have some level of fixed cost, you know, quoting. It depends on what they work on. But when the pricing of materials rises so fast that the, um, that the project is no longer viable, but you're locked in because you've, you've signed contracts and so on, I think, uh, the honesty of conversation is going to be really helpful for those that are struggling through those difficult times. That's not the only headwind. There's a lot of things going on right now. I mean, if we think about Australia, we've got, you know, rising interest rates and inflation out of control and a whole bunch of other things that are affecting, and we haven't got enough housing. So if people are constructing in the residential space, um, things are things are crazy. So I think more honest conversations around the struggle would be really helpful. The I, I get the, I get the reason why some might not want to share that because they want to, they want to look successful and speak of the positive wins. But for those that are prepared to explain what's really happening, that'll be really awesome to to draw that out of people, you know, live on a show. It's interesting because like all the things that you said, obviously were very much experiencing here in the US too, with the, with the interest rates. I mean, they aren't as high here right now. Um, they're still not low. Um, in the same sense, inflation is not easy. Um, and there's some, there's some other things causing some of that inflation that we're like, okay, is this self-inflicted? Is this how is this done? And it, you're right, it is a difficult time. And for people to have those difficult conversations is tough. Um, as you know, as an entrepreneur, as a fellow entrepreneur. Um, I have a friend that spoke at a high school the other day and everyone wants to be an entrepreneur because on Instagram, all they're seeing is, is everyone saying entrepreneurship life is great? And I said, yeah, that's because the other morning when I woke up crying and sweating in the middle of the night, I didn't take a selfie and be like, entrepreneurship life. Uh, yeah. Those are the things that we don't talk about. Yeah, yeah. That's right. If you haven't been on the bathroom floor crying like a baby, you're not really an entrepreneur. Right? Exactly how it goes sometimes. Exactly. Yeah. And, but once again, that's another one of those conversations that people don't necessarily have. Yeah. That being said, if you are going to give advice to a business owner, a marketer about podcasting, and don't tell me, just press record, because that is the lamest answer ever. If they're getting ready to start, if they're getting ready to get into it, what's the one piece of advice where it's either, hey, you should do this, or B, it's, I did this, don't make that same mistake. What's that piece of advice that you would give people? I would say, just get on as many guest opportunities as you can and reach out. If you're just starting out, just reach out to shows that hardly even have an audience. The reason being, it allows you to find your voice when no one's even listening anyway. So, you know, just consider it like a practice. Remember the first couple of podcasts that I did were pretty, pretty rough, you know? Um, and I'm pretty sure no one was ever going to listen to it, but it gave me an opportunity just to, just to, to try some things, you know, get comfortable speaking, you know, finding different ways of communicating what it is you do and bring value. You know, every show has its different topics and so on. So I think just do as many as you can as, as soon as you can guesting before you, um, before you start your own. I think it would be a clever thing to do. I did that by accident, but I think it was really beneficial just to see how other people run their shows. So yeah, you've done a lot of things by accident, but have come out very well by doing those. I truly love that and I love the honesty behind it too. Um, that's what so much of this is about. That's so much what we're about. I truly love that. That being said, where can people find you? Yeah. Uplift threesixty dot com dot au. You'll find all the podcasts and things there as well. If people are looking to be a guests and they're relevant to our show, that'd be fantastic. They'll find um, how to apply to all of that there. So uplift threesixty dot com dot au and don't worry about it being an au, an Australian website, as I said before, and even if you if you visit there, you'll see lots of brands all around the world that we've worked with Sam, you'll probably recognize as well. I truly love that, Wes. I appreciate the time. I appreciate the conversation. Lots of good information today. Thanks, Josh. Yeah, it's been brilliant. Thank you. For everyone else. I'm going to take a couple of minutes. I'm going to I did take some notes today. I will be right back. There's a juxtaposition here that I want to talk about. And it's the AI piece compared with the podcast piece. And what's so interesting about it is I feel Wes is completely right in terms of people are like fatigued and just burnt out and completely lack trust in most marketing right now because of AI fatigue. It's there. I'm seeing stuff all the time that is AI generated that I know it's AI generated, and a lot of it looks kind of lazy to me. Now, there are certain things that I'm like, there's a possibility that is AI, and I'm okay with some of those because really I get it's a more efficient way to do things. But there's some of it where you're like, this is just lazy. Now I realize there is a subset of the population that is going to be perfectly fine, a okay, and not have any realization that something was done with AI, and that's fine, but that's not who we want to talk to. That's not who we want to market to. That's not who we want to work with. We're looking to work with the people that do want that honesty and that integrity. It's one of the things that I love about what Wes's podcast is named. It's built, trusted, chosen these. Those are three very, very intentional words. And they really all kind of point back to that honesty piece. They're trying to they're promoting things on that honesty. It's one of the things that I love about. One of the things that I love about podcasting is it is based in honesty. We're like, this is a conversation here. You've heard me stutter, you've heard me stammer, you've heard me get halfway down a sentence only for me to realize it was the wrong way and I've got to start over. It's honest. It's what connects us as humans. And that to me, I truly, truly love. Because like I said, there's that. There's that honest human to human connection. I feel like if I picked up the phone and called if I had an issue, Wes would answer it. It's that I've got the ability to communicate with the human in order to do something. That to me is wonderful and amazing, and a huge part of the reason why I think podcasting is going to work so well moving forward. We also brushed on that topic of the know, like and trust in terms of working with the actual person. We talk about this with a lot of the podcasts that we're working with is it builds that personality. It's that constant. It's that being in front of people and they there's constant video content out there that people can use to get to know you. Is this the type of person that I want to work with? Now, realize you may not be everyone's cup of tea, but the people that you really want to work with, the people that you're really going to be able to connect with, those people will be flocking to you. And let's face it, we all want to work with the people that we really, really, really want to work with, right? The other thing that I liked is the fishing analogy, and this is one that was phenomenal to me in terms of you're you're going to go out there days and you're going to catch nothing, but you still have to go out there. You still need to put the content out there. Because when when finally the fish is in the right area and the fish is hungry, they will take that hook. That to me was huge. All of that being said, do me a favor. If you know a podcaster that could benefit from this, send it to them. Please would love would love to help share the message with more people across the board. As always, I'm going to ask you to take care of yourself if you can take care of someone else too. I will see you very, very soon.