Why Most Podcast Guest Pitches Fail (And How to Get Booked the Right Way)

In this episode, we dive into the biggest mistakes businesses, entrepreneurs, publicists, and podcast booking agencies make when pitching podcast hosts. Josh shares why mass email blasts, generic templates, and automated outreach are hurting both guests and hosts, and explains how authentic relationships consistently outperform volume-based marketing.

We also explore PodVerified, Josh's platform designed to help improve the podcast guesting experience by creating better matches between hosts and guests while raising the standard for podcast outreach.

Whether you're looking to become a sought-after podcast guest, book higher-quality interviews for your own show, or simply build stronger business relationships, this conversation is packed with practical advice you can implement immediately.

In this episode, you'll discover:

• Why most podcast guest pitches are ignored.
• The biggest mistakes podcast booking agencies make.
• How authentic relationship-building leads to better podcast opportunities.
• Why teaching and delivering value always beats selling.
• How PodVerified is helping improve the podcast guesting ecosystem.
• Best practices for building credibility as a podcast guest.
• How podcast guesting can become one of your most effective marketing strategies.

If you're serious about podcasting for marketing, brand building with podcasting, client attraction through podcasting, or simply want tips for podcasting that actually work, this episode is for you.

If you're looking to talk podcasting and get more information on how to make your podcast shine, our 30-minute "no pitch" podcast consultation is right for you!  Click the link to sign up for a time. 
https://pedalstomperproductions.as.me/no-pitch

Staying up to date on the latest podcasting news and trends doesn't have to be difficult. We can deliver them right to your inbox. 
https://www.pedalstomperproductions.com/

Want to start your own podcast?  Go here!

You can book time in our studios here 

Want to read about this? Check the blog! 

Transcript

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When you have over three thousand guest appearances across a ton of different medias, a lot of those being podcasts. Guess what? You learn quite a bit. And in fact, you may even learn enough to start your own podcasting related platform. Yep, that's who we're talking with this week. Stay tuned. Josh, thanks for being on the show today. I mean, I just want to dive right in with pod verified because anyone that is a host has gotten the litany of pitches that are just horrific. And one of my favorites I always like to tell this story is I co-host a podcast. It's me and my co-host all the time, and we get pitched all the time. I would love to be a guest on your show. We have never had a guest on our show ever. So my usual response to them is, hey, um, who's been your favorite guest as of thus far? Uh, so, I mean, you guys are working to really make the, the, the experience of bringing on guests of, of making sure that it's a connection better. Like there's not just a gap there, there's a chasm. When was the moment where you're like, I can fill this? Yeah. Well, and it really was, um, it was, you know, this is what we're talking about specifically, just, just in case anyone's a little bit curious here. So, um, you know, in the podcasting world, so if you're a podcaster, you've been around for a little bit of time, I've got about, um, you know, two thousand five hundred episodes of my podcast, the thoughtful entrepreneur. Um, and then I've also worked, um, you know, as a bit of a fractional chief revenue officer, but I do all of my relationship building and, you know, business development, sales development through podcasting ecosystem because it's just such an incredible Uh, ecosystem to connect with other high level leaders. I'll get into that later. Um, but I want to address it. We're talking specifically, um, when you are a host, um, and you've been around a little bit of time, you're going to start getting hit up a lot by guests. Um, but not just guests. It's actually more so it's this, um, this, uh, this huge, uh, group of podcast pitching services and, um, contractors. And, um, so back in the day, my background goes back into journalism and public relations. And I've been doing media consulting since the nineties. I kind of started up in the US Navy. Not that I was ourselves. Yeah. Well, it's an interesting story and I'll get into that a little bit later, um, just to make sure it's relevant. But, um, you know, um, what we, the background in podcast guesting, just like traditional media, which. And again, I've been in traditional media about three. Thousand times in that world. Um, you know, um, public relations is, is a very relationship oriented process. Um, usually if you have a PR firm, you know, that that just blasts out press releases. Good luck. You're not going to get Jack. It does not work today. Um, there are a couple of strategies and you know that, that you could do, uh, you know, that there might be some use case, but generally, if your hope is to get on great media outlets just blasting out generic press releases, it's just not going to work. Public relations professionals know this now. Some of them still sell those services, unfortunately, but generally they're just not going to deliver the goods. Like someone who takes a little bit of time, make sure that, you know, the match is great. Everyone's coached, everyone's ready. It's going to be a very successful collaboration. That's the work of a great PR professional and Um, you know, today we get more than twenty pitches a day on average. Um, and I, I do a show, I do a daily show. Um, and I got to tell you, and I'm sure you know, this, the quality of the pitches is just ridiculous. It's, it's, it's, I'll be frank. It's terrible. And if there are podcast pitching companies looking or listening to us right now, or, you know, someone who's doing this, I'm just going to tell you right now, you are being insulting. Please stop doing this wholeheartedly. Hate this. And also what I need to let you know is that if you have hired one of these agencies, God bless you. You're just doing what you believe in. This world operates like. So, you know, if I could just emphatically tell you, please stop spamming. It's it's, um, it's kind of like, um, and again, this is the whole maximum, you know, it's like marketers ruin everything, right? And I'll say amateur marketers and professionals. Again, no, um, you know, at the end of the day, you know, you can only squeeze so much juice out of. You know, we've got a target out of the fruit, so to speak. Um, but, but here's what's happening. It's kind of like what happened with LinkedIn sales navigator. LinkedIn sales navigator used to be a really, really great tool. And then marketers, cheap, bad amateur marketers ruined it for everybody. Why? Because they just, they just went cheaper, more generic, uh, you know, just a lot of automation, a lot of cheap labor, a lot of just very generic crap. So what ends up happening? Well, if I'm a decision maker, my time is valuable. Um, and I'm generally the kind of person that people might want to do business with, um, you know, in certain verticals. Um, but unfortunately, I don't even look at my LinkedIn anymore because it's all crap. And I, you know, I do have someone that monitors my DMs, but I said, your number one job is just to keep me from being encumbered. So, you know, the spam comes in every single day. It's the same thing with podcast guesting and all this spam that goes out, and then clients and well-meaning guests. I don't mean to keep monologuing here, but you're good on my soapbox. You're good solutions here. In just a second, I promise. It's the, it's, this is truly, it's the lessons that we need to call out. And it's funny when you mentioned the bro thing, it's the reason why, like for us as a company, I say we won't do broadcasts, we will not do broadcasts, we'll do business podcasts, we'll do stuff like that all day long. We won't do the bros. Yeah. Well, let me share something with you. And this is really interesting too, is as I've really looked at this behavior, um, in terms of who is it that does really well in podcast guesting. Uh, and I've seen this just consistently is that to serve audiences in media to serve Audiences. Uh, you know, when you're collaborating and giving value and you're teaching. Okay. Folks who have the heart of a teacher and are just, just genuine, like they're just good people and you can tell that they don't have, like their primary motivation in being a guest is to deliver value because they know that their success is dependent among, uh, um, it's, it's in, you know, it's relative to the value that they give. They will naturally create more success if you deliver more value. Now marketers think about it again, a little bit different. Like what they're thinking about is I'm going to say the right terms. I'm going to say the right words and I'm going to, you know, use some urgency and scarcity and I'm going to be like on to, you know, page thirty two of my new book, you too can be a winner. You'll discover the three. Like you just cannot do that stuff in media, um, in, you know, listen, if you're doing a webinar and you're doing a marketing presentation, Go for it. Do whatever you do that that normally works. But that stuff does not work. In podcast guesting. Those folks usually flame out really quick because they're like, well, this sucks. No one's buying my stuff. And I'm like, yeah, you're in the wrong venue, man. Read the room. Because again, um, if you want to do well in podcast guesting, it truly is. It's about rapport. Yes. Building some curiosity. Um, yes, you know, generating, you know, giving true value to audiences. If you can get really good at that, then, um, I don't know why you would do any kind of other marketing because there's just so many great audiences who listen to podcasts. It's just, it's, it's a little unique. Um, and I've got, you know, way more tips that, you know, that I can share, uh, in how to do this. Well, I love the fact that you talked about the sharing at that aspect, the giving aspect of it. And that's how to be successful because we find that I mean, and it's that's another reason why we say don't we're not doing the broadcast because the broadcast, they're doing it for themselves instead of doing it for their audience instead of and as a business, as a guest, as a host. It's all about giving as the host you're giving to the audience, as the guest you're giving to the host. It's all about giving. It does come back to you people. Um, that's the only way. Like that's the only way it works is you have to put it out. It's, it's, it's one hundred percent. In fact, I just started thinking of this. It's an investment. If you invest nothing, you're going to get back nothing. If you're willing to invest in it, you'll get it back from the tactical side of this. I love how you called out like the PR agencies and just the like the fact that none of us really need more things in our inbox every day. Uh, I feel like that's a, that's a standard answer. You, the spray and pray method is one that like, once again, that we You know, you're selling to consumers, you might be able to get away with this and it might work. Like, listen, I'm not good at this, so I'll stay in my lane. But what I can tell you is that, you know, for higher level B2B sales with a sophisticated buyer. Let me just say this. We all know what you are doing. We all know what you are doing. So you're not fooling anybody. Like when you have great marketing copy. Great. We know you have great marketing copy and we see it objectively. And so we're able to get a little meta and we all know when we're being sold at. So when I'm working with my clients, um, you know, just, you know, kind of illustrate this, like in a sales conversation, you know, usually what I tell my clients says, listen, your job on your first sales call is not to close the deal and pin them down and, you know, get them to buy your product. I really take a little bit more of a, you know, again, these are for bigger ticket B2B sales. Your job really is just to evoke. Oh my gosh, now I have a friend who does what you do. If you can get, um, you know, your potential partner or your potential client to that level of emotional connection with you. It's kind of game, set, match. They'll let you know if they're in market and that's their decision, not yours. That's my philosophy on this. And I very much kind of align with the go giver way of sales and marketing as well as you can tell, oh, for one hundred percent for sure. And I mean, that also explains why you've been a guest on the bazillion jillion shows that you have. I believe that's the correct number, right? I am, I counted, I think I think that's give or take a bajillion. Okay, good good good good. Um, how does someone know it's the right show to get on to? Okay. Okay, so I've got some thoughts on this. It's a great question. Okay. Um, and trust me, um, I want to make sure, Josh, that we will get to in this conversation. I absolutely need to call out the podcasting industry. Do I need to call out up podcasters because there's a lot of I won't say blood on their hands, but there's a lot of, um, um, unforced errors. Um, that there is some why have we gotten to the place that we have? And I'll address that later. So don't let me forget. Um, no, but you asked the question from the guesting perspective. How do I know what shows to go on? So, um, I have a kind of a philosophy when I'm talking with my clients. And again, um, I've launched over three hundred shows for folks. Uh, and then as well, I've facilitated thousands and thousands of guest connections. Um, and everything I do has to be around what is the business plan or the business justification for this. So my primary goal is you have to follow the rules of engagement. You have to give. You have to serve, you have to be generous. You have to learn some basic rapport skills. You have to do all this stuff. Right. Um, but, but you know, primarily, again, I need to make sure that my clients are making money at podcast guesting. So how can you do that? Well. Show selection is is a valuable consideration. So, um, a lot of times and this is really interesting, um, let's say that you're a marketing consultant and you're kind of new. Um, a lot of times this is what I see is that a new, uh, a new air to podcasting marketing consultant. Their first inclination is to say, well, I'm a marketer, so guess what kind of shows I'm going to go on? I'm going to go on a bunch of marketing podcasts. Okay. What I call that is, um, my advice is you got to step away from the nerd table. Um, because your, your customers are not, they're your peers are there. And a lot of times, Josh reason why marketers want to go on marketing podcasts is, is on the inside. Yes. They say they want business, but in reality, what they want or what drives that at least, you know, either consciously or unconsciously, is they want validation from their peers. And there's nothing wrong with that, but it may or may not pay the bills. So if you want to make money in podcasting, you are likely going to do much better if you can be the unique voice in other genres and other industries, right? Particularly, what you want to ask is this one question is, could my ideal customer be in this audience? And if so, then that's kind of the show that I'm after. Uh, you know, because that's who I can provide the most value to. Um, you know, I may not have a lot of fresh ideas for really experienced podcasters. I think there's probably a lot of nodding along, but man, I am here to serve because I also want, I need help And like now, the trucking industry just recognizes you as one of those few voices that is just serving and helping those folks do better, overcome all of their organizational and people leadership issues. Um, that's what you want. That's where you get the biggest, I'd say bang for your buck in terms of getting that. That's truly amazing. And it's something that I have thought about and looked at often because you're one hundred percent right. And it's, there's so many people go on to what's going to feed their ego. Where can I go on where someone's going to agree with me? And in so many cases, it's. And you make such a great point about it is the fact that a guest and a host should not agree with absolutely everything. Um, if one, if one just sits here and nods the entire time, you're kind of like, oh yeah, there's no conflict. There's no, you know, watch it. Watch a movie with no conflict in it and see how you do. it right. Right. I'm like, okay. Two dudes talking. I mean, podcasts are different. But again, you know, when there's, um, you know, at least, you know, um, for me, like as a host, like when I'm like, wow, you are blowing my mind. And I'm like, I hadn't considered that. Like, that's cool too. Right. And that's, that's where it's, it's outside the purview. It's outside the normal, it's outside the like once again. And it's why, it's why I love like what I get to do. I mean, you mentioned like people like Dave Jackson, there's like, there's so many different people from around different areas that once again, it's, it's getting, it's getting that feedback from outside other other areas and from the guest perspective. Yes. So many, so many people don't think to look outside their normal area and to look outside of like the, like, who like, instead of talking to your peers, talk to the people with checkbooks. Yeah. Um, that, that is the huge case for that in that you mentioned the podcasting industry kind of as a whole. And I want to address some of that. And one of the things there's a there's a channel that I unabashedly follow on Instagram. And it is it takes terrible quotes from podcasts. And what it shows is it shows a guy at the engineering desk and there's the terrible quote from the podcast, and he just it's the same clip of him every time, and he just rips all the cords out of the back of it. And he's like, podcasting equipment is too cheap. Was it podcasting? What? Podcasting equipment is too cheap? He's like, we have lowered the bar. Well, look, okay, can I just can I chime in on that? Because yes, that is. Okay, so it is. And I'll tell people like, especially like folks that are guesting and, and maybe they're using, and I don't want to name anybody here because, um, you know, there are some closed ecosystem, um, services or platforms that you can use. And I think they're fantastic for brand new guests. Brand new shows. Um, and you know, what I like about this is it is the democratization, right? Anyone can become a podcaster just like anyone can throw some crap on YouTube or whatever and listen. That's great. I mean, I guess that's what the internet's for. Now, what I love about that is it allows for lots of diversity of voices. So voices that may have otherwise been shut out of our media media ecosystem can now. Hey, we're just going to do it ourselves. God bless you for that. I think that's amazing. The, the, the negative of that. I think what you're, you know, kind of getting to is, man, the experience varies wildly. Uh, so, you know, and I can't tell you that I'm sure anyone that's been guesting for a while has been on some real stinkers, and that's fine. I mean, these folks are learning the ropes. They're probably not going to, you know. And have you I'm sure you've seen the numbers, like the percentage of people that, you know, percentage of shows that don't make it to episode twenty. Um, it's close to ninety percent. Like it's pretty significant. Of independent podcasters. Um, so it's a grind. And I think, you know, a lot of people get excited by the idea. And then they realize, oh wow, I launched this thing and nobody's listening. So am I going to keep doing this? And, you know, on episode one, two, and three, you're like, yeah, I'm going to keep on going. But then by episode fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, and still, like very few people are listening, it's really hard for folks to stay motivated. So there is, you know, kind of this natural attrition that does happen. But yeah, to your point, you know, it's, it's the wild West. I have, I have an example that I always like making. Um, I can talk, therefore I should have a podcast works the same way as I drove to the grocery store, therefore I should be in F1. Um, it's, it's just, it's, it's so different. And it's, it's a, it's, it's one of those things where it is a skill and I, I love the fact to the same as you that people can get into this and, and there's all sorts of voices out there that wouldn't be heard that can have the Then I would take those radio segments and convert them into podcasts, and then they'd kind of naturally got discovered by Apple iTunes at the time, which I didn't even submit it. They just found it. Um, and, um, you know, it's really just grown from there to, you know, you don't have to hand code your own RSS feeds anymore. So I mean, I think that, um, the market is likely going to set that natural governor on, you know, content creators and they start it and some are going to stick with it, some won't. Um, but the biggest opportunity I see here, and I don't think that I can understate this, um, heavily enough is that if you look at generally, you know, the caliber of leaders, uh, that participate, uh, in podcast in the podcast world. And I'm speaking specifically about podcast hosts who do interviews and podcast guests who can learn the ropes and they can serve audiences and they kind of know what they're doing. They kind of have a little bit of a media brand here. Um, once you get to that level of competence, um, what you'll learn very quickly is that there is no better ecosystem on the planet for high level B2B relationship building for, um, networking. Um, dare I say, even for potential sales development because of the caliber of folks that you get to collaborate with. So if I look back, you know, through my roster of guests that I've had, that is a powerful network and all of them I've built, you know, tried to build, you know, at least a little bit of a personal relationship while we serve together. So a great analogy is, you know, for those who have spoken at events and conferences And maybe you've been on a panel. So when you podcast guest regularly, uh, or you host regularly and you're one of your primary goals, which is, you know, the three hundred shows that we've launched, it's, it's really primarily to help our clients circulate with the right caliber of people week after week after week. And then they don't have to do lead gen anymore, which, oh, gross. I'm not a fan. Um, but yeah, so, so think of it this way. Um, you know, imagine, and I think, you know, if you've done this, you know exactly what I'm talking about. You go to a conference, you're like, oh, I get to be on this panel. And oh, I think I know the other panelists. And so then you show up, you got to meet the moderator, the audience starts coming in, you sit down. Uh, your other panelists are there as well. And so then all of you, you're, you, you are engaged in service for the next sixty minutes or however long, right? So moderates doing their thing, the panelists are doing their thing, serving audiences. You hear, you overhear and see what your co-panelists are talking about. And then you, they hear and see what you're talking about. So you kind of go, okay, so Josh is pretty legit. You know, um, Jane is pretty legit. Jane knows what she's talking about, right? So what we've done in that moment is we've recognized and like I, leaders identifying other leaders in that moment and leaders serve audiences. That's what they do. So when you are in that world, week after week after week, you start to build relationships. And then if, by the way, you know, let's say you were on a panel, you know, I was a panel on a panel with you, Josh. And then afterwards I'm thinking, man, I should talk with Josh because, you know, we're each kind of doing this thing and maybe there's some collaboration opportunities for us. I don't know. Um, you know, maybe, you know, I don't know, you know, maybe I can hire Josh, I don't know. Um, but at least I have enough curiosity that at the end of that, at the end of that panel presentation, if I leaned over to you and said, Josh, I really liked what you had to share. It seems like we share some things in common. We have some values in common. Hey, let's grab some time next week. I'd love to see if there's something we should be doing together. That's all I do. Day after day after day with my guests. And then I explore. I don't know if you know, they need what I offer. I, you know, can kind of figure out if I need their help or I want to buy their book or whatever. But that's, you know, that's all I do for business. And, you know, the upside of this as well is I've also been one hundred percent inbound as of November for eight years straight. I don't do any advertising. I don't do any lead gen. And, you know, we've built, you know, a pretty decent company. And I'm very grateful to do that. And it's because I took the time and I built the relationships day after day after day after day. It's not about followers. It's not about transactions. It's about human connection. Think of it this way. If you're a realtor in your local market and you have spent the time and The question. You know, it's good because and I love it because I kind of meandered. You're you're totally good with that because to me, that really emphasizes the fact that good podcasts are built on relationships. They are built on conversations. They are built on like that. I always joke we had a podcast at the one time. She only recorded two episodes, thankfully, but came in and invited an expert into the studio. Uh, the first episode, they talked eighty six percent of the time. The second episode, they talked seventy eight percent of the time. And I'm like, why did you even have the person in there's no relationship. There's no. And once again, that was purely transactional. I want that person's name on my podcast, nothing else. And I was like, this is we're not, we're not doing this again. No. So they had so let me make sure I understand this. So they had a guest and the guest was a guest for them. And then they just started like, oh, I'm going to impress this guest by blabbing on in front of them. Correct. Oh, right. So don't do that. Once again, there's it's. And that but it's one of the things that I love about podcasting is it's, it's, it is a relationship. And it is the, I mean, it's the same thing for me, like people that I have had on the show, I have relationships with, I, I, there's an email that I'm going to send out probably another three, four weeks. Hey, how's it going? Things. I mean, and there's two reasons for it. I don't do that to everyone. It's I do it to the ones that I'm genuinely curious about because one of the things that I love too, is I get to ask you some very, very intentional questions. If you and I met at that BNI meeting, we're going to, hey dude, hey dude. And we're going to sound a little bit like the, the, I think it was the sheepdog and Wiley Coyote and Looney Tunes. Morning. Morning, Frank. Morning, Ralph. It'll be one of those things. Whereas now, like I get to like intentionally ask you questions, which you like, they it automatically brings people closer. Exactly. Exactly. You know, and I want to add to that there is something. So in in college. So I was going to be a I was going to be a marriage and family therapist. That's actually what my wife does now. We were kind of in school together, kind of studying therapy and that sort of thing. I ended up going to, you know, obviously a different road. I wanted to be a love doctor on the radio. That was my original career ambition. I love it. Um, yeah. But, um, anyway, one thing that I studied was, um, kind of this idea of quality versus quantity time. And then I looked at, well, you know, what can people do together that truly bonds them? And there is something that is so remarkable about two people coming together in service for something else, right? We are here together to serve. So like, you know, really great relationships. You know, I was able to build, um, just by serving in my local community with my local Sbdc chapter, serving on boards, serving on, you know, workshops, mentors, you know, mentoring, you know, that sort of thing. But then you get to meet all of the other mentors. And man, I'm telling you what, that is quite a fraternity slash sorority like that is like we get along like, I don't know what it is, but it's like we, you know, leaders who we recognize the hearts of other leaders. And that's so attractive. So if we have a heart towards service and somebody else has a heart towards service, it's like instant rapport. So there's another clue. If you're really looking to uplevel your networking relationship building, just start serving more and you're going to get to know a lot of other people. It might feel inefficient at first, but then you'll see what happens regarding the quality of the relationships in your life with people that listen. Business owners usually just have a lot of things going on. And so there's a lot of ways that I collaborate and work with other people. Try me. I mean, just, you know, if. If we build, like, we'll probably figure something out. So, uh, and that's very, very common amongst business owners that have been around a little bit of time, have some things going on. Yeah. It's funny. I see so many people and I always like to call it the pitch slap is, uh, as you mentioned, the guy that's just walking around passing out business cards. Like he's dealing like he's dealing poker is, uh, that is the pitch slap. Yeah. And one hundred percent. And it's, I always like to find, I always ask that for me, like networking events. I always, I always try and ask a different question. And for me, I always ask people, what's something you're working on you're excited about because I want to find out what they're working on. Not just like if you ask someone, what do you do? That's kind of that's kind of self-serving. If you want to find out what they're excited about, well, then that's like, hey, I, I'm interested in you and what you do. That being said, you with you and what you do. Casts are a great stage for you to do that, but I need to help you into that world a little bit. So there's so many free resources there. Um, but, but getting back to the issue that I see with podcasters, and I think a lot of people are going to nod their head, especially if they've done any level of guesting, um, are going, are going to nod their head with me right now. And that is that, let's say that I want to be, let's say you're a podcaster and I feel like I'm kind of at the level where, um, you know, we would probably have a meaningful conversation. I feel like, you know, I would probably be a very qualified guest for you. I'd bring a lot of value. Um, obviously I'm focused on, you know, what are the goals of the podcast host? I mean, that's my background in media. You always put, you know, the host or the producer or the talent. You put their needs first. You serve them, make them look good, you know, truly deliver, um, you know, for their audience. And then you'll be invited back, which, you know, that's how I got my three thousand media appearances. It wasn't from three thousand outlets. It was really just from a, you know, a much smaller quantity over and over and over and over again. Um, so, okay, so here's what podcasters are doing. Unfortunately, nothing. When I go to your website, the average podcasters website, I go to their website and I'm like, okay, well, I think, you know, we actually might be a good fit here. I'm not punching above my weight class. Um, you know, it certainly seems like it'd be a good fit. Um, and then I go, well, what does your guest process? And there's nothing, there's no explanation, there's no application. There's not even one paragraph that explains what, what to do. Right? So I got to say, you know, to a lot of podcasters, I feel like you're spam problem. You, you own a little bit of that because what else are people supposed to do? You got to tell them what to do. So, um, you know, the three hundred shows that we've launched, I am really, really bullish on no email pitches. Great to have you. Everyone is welcome to apply. We have a very simple, you know, kind of a, you know, just initial form. Just who are you? What do you got going on? Let me standardize this so that we can research this. And that's kind of the first level of pod verified where I now like if you go to, for example, if you go to my website, so if you go to w w w dot verified dot com and then you click on podcast so you can see exactly what I do. Please just do what I do. It's, it's, I mean, it is just going to make your life so much easier. Send all of that, put all of that spam on auto responder. And in fact, um, by now, you should also see a link that says for podcasters, click on that. We've got a free tool and we will actually potentially pay you to handle all of your guest spam. So what are we going to do? Well, you just put a little snippet of code on your site and now you have a screening tool and say, hey, if you're interested in being guest on the show, great. Just fill this out. Now what we're going to do pod verified is like Credit karma for podcast guesting. So what we do. I love that analogy. I saw that on the website. Loved it. This is so important because it's also exceptionally confusing for guests who say, I want to be on a podcast. Well, I guess I just send a spam message to Joe Rogan and I'll be on maybe. Right. And that's not how it works, right? It's like a traditional public relations. I would get a client and they would say, hey, can you get me on Good Morning America? I'm like, yeah, maybe. Tell me about your national media that you've done already. I've done national media like it's no big deal, right? But, you know, tell me what you've done. Have you done national media? Oh no, I haven't. Okay. Well, what about your major market stuff? Well, I haven't done that either. I'm like, okay, that ain't how this works. Uh, and I need to just be very transparent with you. You need to earn your stages, just like in public speaking. You don't go from, I'm a speaker to tomorrow, you get yourself a twenty thousand dollars gig. Nope. You're going to be doing a bunch of pro bono stuff at first, and then you're probably going to get your first paid gig, and then you're going to inch your way up. It's the exact same thing in media. Okay, stop playing the lottery with your spam. It's not going to work. You're just ticking people off and you're. It's just it's sloppy. Right? And by the way, to the guest who's done this, it's not your fault. No one taught you this, right? And unfortunately, a lot of marketers probably sold you on a different idea that you should do this. Nope. Podcasters hate it. Um, so podcasters, step one, please put a screening form on your page. That's, that's just, it's not going to take you very long. It is going to solve so many problems. And most importantly is you are going to get better quality guests. Why? And so here's what we look at, the professional success and authority of the guest. That is one bucket that helps us build this profile. Then we look at the overall influence and engagement of that guest already. Now we weight that one a little higher than I think should be. And the reason why is because podcasters do, because most podcasters are looking to expand their influence and reach. It's, it's one of their primary goals. Um, you know, if not number one for the average podcaster. So we, they're going to evaluate you as a guest. So we just grab all that for them. And then finally, number three is what kind of performance have you had on podcasts already? So that's where we're going to look at your podcast history. We're going to look at also, and this is important because guess what? Podcasters are going to look at this as well is when you do appear on a podcast, is there evidence that you collaborate and promote those appearances. Because if you don't, that is a major red flag for nearly every podcast host. Why would you come on my stage and have this great. You're happy to serve my audience. That's great. But why would you not just do that little extra to promote your appearance? Again, it's a rookie move. Don't do that. So unfortunately that that is you know that's a portion of that score as well. So then we give that score to the podcast host and they're like, great, I'm booking, you know, thirty five and above, right. So that's, that's, and again, that's, um, you know, again, you just go to pod verified and I'll teach you how to do that for free. If you want to use our tool, just hit me up right now. If you hurry, I will probably give it to you for free. Um, before, because I gotta sell it, but right now I'm doing, you know, I'm kind of validating. We're testing the process, testing the software and stuff. Um, but yeah, happy to, happy to give it away for free if you hurry and just check it out, just message me on the, on the website again, that's at pod verify dot com. Okay. Um, now on the guesting side of things, this also solves a major problem because, you know, when I was talking about, oh, I want to be on Joe Rogan, I want to be on Mel Robbins or whatever. I'm sorry, you're not ready for that. But you know what? You're coming in at a a forty, so you should be aiming for shows that are around that level. Because if you punch too high, you're not going to get any response. Okay, stop with the lottery mentality. It just doesn't work like that. Also, the vast majority of the shows, you will probably find that, um, you could do better. You know, if you're Def Leppard in your prime, stop playing dive bars, right? And so there's nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong with what an example bars just like we need new podcasters. Um, but that said, um, you, you should be playing the venues that are appropriate for your level of media, because that's the probably the fastest way for you to escalate up. You you have to earn stages and then you go one point above, right? So you keep earning those stages one point at a time. You don't go from, hey, you're a twenty. So now you're going to get on some eighty stages. You can buy your way there in some cases, but generally it's really challenging, really hard to do. I would much rather be on, you know, a dozen, you know, if I'm a forty, um, I'd much rather be on a dozen, uh, shows that are forty as well, because that's the right room for me. And then, you know, in a couple of weeks I'll be a forty one. So, you know, just, just, that's, that's how you do it. And pod verified, like I said, we give away all tons of, you know, all kinds of free tools, do media training and that sort of thing, because all of this stuff, again, is going to help you to become much more successful. You're going to make a lot more money. You're going to grow your audience a lot faster. Oh, can I I'm so sorry. I gotta. I probably shouldn't keep, um, throwing everything in the kitchen sink into this conversation. No. Go right ahead. Violating so many of my own rules that I'm talking about. But I do want to say this because I want, you know, because I don't often get to speak to podcasters specifically. Um, here is probably why this is okay. Spam is a big problem. Spam is a really, really big problem. Another problem that we as podcasters have is, um, guests that are not fully engaged in the process, particularly as evidenced by the amount of emphasis they put on promoting that appearance, right? So we get really frustrated podcasters when the guests just doesn't participate. Okay. There's a lot of ways you can fix that. And over the years, in two thousand five hundred appearances, I've had to learn to fix that. And I'm going to tell you right now, number one is you need to start treating your show like a, like a, like a serious Easy. They can totally do it. Most guests are a little bit nervous. Um, most guests want to do a good job. So if I were to, let's say I was going to speak at an event and then the meeting planner goes, hey, before you have we have you on stage in a couple of weeks, why don't we grab fifteen minutes really quick, just so I can kind of go over who's going to be the audience, what kind of questions they're asking, you know, that sort of thing. Like every speaker on the planet would take that meeting. Okay, so the same thing happens with media guests. Most guests, if you offer to be helpful and you give them really quick resources, right? And just like, here's the question I'm going to ask. Here's how the format goes. Um, you know, here's, you know, some I share like a video. It's like, hey, here's some quick audio video tips. And I share that with, I get so much positive feedback from my guests. They're like, oh my gosh, boy, talk about dumbing it down and helping me to become more successful. Thank you so much. Now, as a result, they have now built familiarity bias with me, meaning they feel like they now know me because they've spent all that time getting to watch my videos when I'm prepping them so that they can do a good job because they want to look good in front of my audience. They want to look good in front of me. They want to look good in front of their shareholders, their teams, their customers, that sort of thing. So I want to help them do that. That's all I care about in the pre-interview, rolling out the red carpet. But again, that's another thing that podcasters and by the way, if you're a podcaster, I'll teach you how to do all this stuff for free. It's all part of like, you know what we give away at pod verified, happy to serve again, if we don't all take action, um, it's only going to get worse. It's the end. I'm not going to say the word ification of podcast guesting. No, it's the certification. I will say the word. Yeah. It's the it really is. Because the like, like I mentioned, the bar has been lowered enough that, uh, yeah, it becomes difficult to shine in that way. Yeah, yeah. And there's already a bunch of AI slop podcasts that are coming out, which is like so ridiculous. It's so stupid. Like, yes, you know, I'm sure there's going to be some people that are listening to most people listen because they want to hear from humans. And that's you're seeing enormous consumer pushback right now, like on YouTube. I just, you know, sometimes maybe like for the Fall Asleep podcast, I'll listen to like AI produced stuff, but if I can tell it's AI and they go, you know, in the year one thousand nine hundred and eighty seven, you know, I'm like, okay, AI, like I'm so out of there, like AI, I use like a son of a gun, but not for my content. Like it just feels yucky. Like to me, it's, it's so funny. I just had this talk with someone the other day about it because they're talking about like, they're worried about AI content and marketing in an organization that I and I'm like, no, no, no, no. I'm like, I like to use AI in the marketing is amazing, but it's human in the loop. AI. It's not like if you just let AI do its own things. Yes, it is horribleness. If it assists humans and makes humans do things better or more efficient than. Oh my gosh, is it an amazing tool? Nailed it Josh, you nailed it. Yeah. It's truly how we work with that. With that, the conversation today has been amazing. Um, like I feel like too, in some ways, I want to hook a set of jumper cables up to you because I feel like you could power my house for a fair bit of time. Uh, well, look, you know, what I'm excited about is I think that I think that this is very fixable. I think it's really fixable. I think all it requires is all of us to do just a little bit better. Like just do a little. If we all improve the, you know, kind of the ecosystem by one two percent, boom, done gone. And the marketers will just not survive. I mean, already their churn rate with their clients, like I've heard some stories. I mean, I talked to all their clients too, because, you know, a lot of times they end up on my show. So, and I'm very respectful. I'm like, listen, I, you know, I was on a great, you know, public relations relationships and stuff, but when they're working with a true kind of shyster, I'm like, oh man. And you know, other folks in the podcast guesting world to those folks. The good news is those folks don't last. Just like the brewery guests don't really last either. They're wonderful people. They're just in the wrong venue. Yep. I wholeheartedly agree. That all being said, where can people find you? Obviously pod verified dot com. But where else? Yeah. So when you go to pod verified dot com, if you want to get a free pod verified score, that'll help you. Then I'm going to share with you using AI tools how to build a press kit. Again, if you're a speaker without a speaker kit, you're not getting speaking gigs. If you are a podcast guest without a press kit, you just look like you're not ready for prime time. You, you, it's, you have to do this. Otherwise, content creators like myself, we like we're just gonna have to guess. Don't make me guess as to whether or not you're a good guest. Tell me. Just give me the resources. Don't sell me with a big, glossy thing. I don't need that. Just give me the I don't even know where to start. There's a there's a couple of things. One is what we always talk about server host all the time. If you're a guest server host, if you're a host, serve your audience, provide value to them. That's I mean, once again, no one cares unless you are providing value to them. That is the biggest thing. The other thing that I, it's a point that so many of us often miss, and it's one that I even sometimes miss myself if I don't pay attention to it. Go to where your clients are. Don't necessarily go to like where you're comfortable. And that to me is, is a really big issue because in that, like, I see it in so many cases where people just go where they're going to hear that echo chamber, they're going to go where they're going to hear this constant, yeah, you're right, you're right. Yeah, that's the right thing. Like, no, don't necessarily go there. Go to the places where people like you, you, you want to find the people. Go, go to those places, be intentional about it. Once again, this is one of those things where it takes that intention to think about it. It's not just the automatic thing that you're going for. The other one is the point that I see all the time. You're not going to start out in the big leagues like you start out playing tee ball, then you play baseball, then you may play Hot Stove or whatever it is. Then you may play high school ball. Then you may play college ball. Then. Then you got a chance to make it to the big leagues. Don't be knocking the ball off the tee thinking, hey, I am the next Babe Ruth. That's not the case. Start. Start with the shows that fit with where you're at, and I love his example of it. If you're a forty, you can probably get on a forty one or forty two. It's very much like the rules of dating almost. We always joke about the rule of dating. You'll see an eight with a six, but you typically don't see an eight with a two. Same ideas when it comes to podcasting. Punch around your weight class. The the screening form I absolutely love. It's something that we need to get better at. Um, it's something that I'm encouraging others to get better at. Like if you're having guests on, make sure that they are good, high quality guests, make sure that they are ones that are aimed at your show. Too often we're finding the guests that are just there and available instead of the ones that are actually helping to move things forward. I mean, scour the internet forum, look at their professional success, look at like, do they collaborate on stuff that is a huge one. Find people that have that are like are going to give you that value. Like once again, it's all about that exchange of value and make sure that you're doing that fairly. One of the last things that, uh, he talked about that Josh talked about, that I really found interesting. And I really think more people need to do something with this is some form of PR training. I see it all the time where people and PR people think PR training is just how to be comfortable in front of a camera. It's not. It's how to know the right things to say. It's how to address a camera. It's how to address a guest. It's how to address questions. It's how to be thoughtful in those things. It's not just speaking to this can that's that's not the case at all. There's a ton of great free resources out there for PR training. And to me, that's one of the things that would be a big, huge investment for so many people in terms of podcasting. Learn how to properly do the things and you'll get so much further ahead. I guess I would say it's kind of like learning how to ride a bike. Most of us had someone help us learn how to ride a bike. We just didn't go out and start pedaling down the street. Get someone to help you learn how to ride the bike, and you'll be amazed at how quickly you gain some really big skills. You'll learn the eighty percent in the first six eight months it's after that is that you get incrementally better, and that's where the differences are. That all being said, I really appreciate you coming along for the ride this week. I mean, Josh was a great, great, great guest. Obviously, he's got a ton of experience with it. He's given me something to shoot for when I'm a guest on other podcasts, and hopefully he has done the same for you. As always, do me a favor, take care of yourself. If you can take care of someone else too. I will see you very, very soon.