EP 247 - The Psychology of High-Converting Quizzes with Maxwell Nee

Meet Maxwell Nee, Chief Revenue Officer at ScoreApp, as he walks you through Scorecard Marketing - a clever way to mix quizzes with data to get quality leads. Maxwell breaks down the psychology of warm leads, shows you how to ask questions that get results, and explains how using personalised insights can boost your marketing game. You'll learn how to build lead-generation tools that actually work and drive up those conversion rates, whether you're running solo or managing a small team.

ABOUT YOUR TEACHER

Maxwell Nee is the Chief Revenue Officer of Scoreapp, a Quiz Marketing Platform with 7,000 paying clients. He's also a multi-award winning entrepreneur, bodybuilder & dancer. He’s been featured in TV, Radio, Forbes, Singapore’s The Business Times & The Australian Business Review.

EPISODE RESOURCES ✍️

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:06

Hey marketing rebels, welcome back to All Marketing School, the show teaching you how to make your marketing more impactful, human, and fun. Today's class is a throwback to one of our favorite free series of the year, which is our summer school. If you miss some of our summer school, our nine plus free sessions are now available inside our All Access Pass, which is the AMS student community, which includes short courses, including CPD accredited training, a whole extensive library of Notion and Canva templates, our collection of on-demand individual workshops and classes from hundreds of experts, interactive worksheets on topics ranging from copywriting frameworks to social media auditing, and everything you need in your marketing toolkit, including also some live events to build accountability and community and connect with people, even when you're strapped with time. Because we want to make marketing better, and let's be honest, marketers need marketers. So why not join in fellow rebels over at amschool.click slash library. As always, you can find out more about this specific session's teacher and their links all in the show notes today. I hope you enjoyed this throwback and made today's class begin. Just to be seen, and marketing makes it easier for small businesses to find you. Based on your skills, your industry experience and the value they bring to the table. Plus, members can access some serious perks, from 24-7 GP access to mental health support and everyday retail discounts. If you are ready to grow your freelance career with less hustle and more support, join Find Marketing UK, the UK's Code Directory for Marketing Freelancers and Agencies. And use the code AMS25 for 25% of your monthly membership. We're so excited to see you back in class for another week of summer school. Today, we're going to talk about a topic that we can summarize in two words, which is scorecard marketing. And even better, this means that I can ask the lovely guest teacher here with me today, Maxwell, to introduce himself, not only by sharing what he does, but also by explaining what scorecard marketing is because it's literally the forefront of the company and what you guys do. So thank you, Maxwell, for being here. I'm gonna let you introduce yourself for us.

SPEAKER_00: 2:47

Yes, thank you so much for having me. So I am the I'm an angel investor and chief revenue officer at ScoreApp. ScoreApp is a quiz marketing platform. Think of it as like a cross between ClickFunnels and SurveyMonkey, only about less than half the cost. And we have we've been around for almost five years now. We have almost 9,000 paying clients all around the world, more than 100 countries, and we help them all to collect more data from their clients and generate highly qualified leads from their audience.

SPEAKER_01: 3:24

So even if you are new to it today, hopefully you can get an understanding of the behind the scenes and like how it actually works in a way that differs from maybe I'm gonna use some bigger words and I'm gonna remind us of what they mean just in case. Instead of looking at cold leads, but it really already focuses on as a platform and as a strategy and as an encompassing things that you do, you help generating warmer leads already from the get-go. And I think there is an element in what uh you do, and I also would recommend uh the book that the CEO of the company, uh Daniel Presley, wrote, which is called card marketing, which really explains the psychology behind it and the reasoning behind it. There is something called psychological tension at play. There is something in that that actually gets people to take action. So I was wondering whether you could explain this part of it for us, because it's really at the beginning or the forefront of what gets people then to interact with the app and then to turn into warm leads. So, how does psychological tension play a role in warming up these leads? And how can we actually use it in a way that feels you know authentic and natural and not necessarily manipulative or forced?

SPEAKER_00: 4:36

Yeah, good question. So let me explain psychological tension, right? So I want you to imagine a pyramid. So there's a pyramid, at the very top of the pyramid, there is, for example, 3% of any market that's ready to buy now. So they're the people that have the credit card in hand out there shopping. You know, if if if they're in the market to buy a house, they have their Commonwealth Bank mortgage, you know, pre-approved, ready to go, right? And everyone goes for that title audience because they're the ones that are ready to buy today, they're the only ones that are ready to potentially get a sale from today. But the issue with that clientele is that when you are that certain that you you you want to fix this problem today and you're ready to buy today, you typically would have already decided who you're going to buy from, right? So in my example, if if you're out there shopping to buy a house and you already have your finance, your mortgage pre-approved, uh, then if another bank comes along and says, Hey Fab, how would you like to try our 1% discount interest rate for your mortgage for your house buying journey, you're gonna say, That's really nice, but I've already made a decision, I've already, you know, I've already gone through that decision-making process for me to take a step back to to start again. You know, it's it's just a little bit cumbersome. So what psychological tension is is that it helps you to really choose at another layer of the market to go for. So there's a top 3% of the market that's ready to buy today, the next 7% of the market is ready to buy, but they haven't decided who to buy from yet. The psychological tension of warming up your leads and effectively um generating interest from them is is basically bringing that that seven percent up to the top so that they're ready to buy. So it's it's sparking interest, it's educating them, it's getting in front of them before they've made any hard decisions about their next purchase, uh, which is you know uh a really exciting place to be because you know 7% of the market is more than double the 3% is ready to buy today. So you add all three together uh in in your target audience that you're investing into into marketing to, and you've tripled your market as well.

SPEAKER_01: 7:10

This is actually very interesting because when we think about this, then we already can get, first of all, a bigger pull of the market, a bigger group of people that we can tap into. So I'm thinking uh marketing speech is almost we get them into that consideration stage where they're problem aware, they know they have a problem, and it's just figuring out who's the best solution for them. But with that, there is an exciting opportunity, once again, to actually talk to these people as well more clearly and more persuasively. But also there is there can be a challenge, which is we then need to figure out what are the core problems or the main desires that these potential customers have, right? So, what questions can we ask and or what can we offer them, especially when it comes to you know, scorecard is really about asking questions to get data, to get information, but also then to provide an initial solution or some clarity, which kind of means that it's a great opportunity, but it requires us as marketers to think what do I want to know from them and what do I want to give this 7% to help them out provide some value? So I guess there's twofold to the question: what are some of the strategies or things that we can do to identify and tap into these desires or problems with these potential customers? And also why is it so important to ask the right questions?

SPEAKER_00: 8:35

Yeah, good questions. Um, you know, the the online lead generation game has evolved, you know, it's been around for a while now, it's been around for more than 10 years now, and everyone on the planet is wise to being sold to in person, and now we're wise to being sold to online. So, for example, if if anyone uh if you want anyone to give you their information, the name, email, phone number, uh, and for them to basically put their hand up and say, hey, look, I'm giving you permission to sell to me. I'm a potential client, I'm ready to, I'm I'm thinking about buying. I might not be ready to buy today, but I'm thinking about buying, then uh you need to provide a lot of value, right? When when our clients provide their clients uh, you know, scorecards and reports and quizzes and everything that that score app provides, what happens is that the conversion rate usually doubles or triples. So a typical lead magnet that will convert at say 10, 15%, uh, and that's like a discount code, a free ebook, a free ticket to an event, an invitation to um to a webinar or workshop or something like that, something that they've assigned a notion or value onto. And then when they start using quiz marketing, as typically they the conversion rate increases to about 30 to 40 percent. So you're looking at double, if not triple, maybe even quadruple, your conversion rate. And why is that? That's because the consumer values that process and that that free piece of value, you know, three to four times higher. That's why they're willing to give you the information for that amount of money. So it's all about packaging up as much as you can give away at scale for free to a you know, be really generous and sort of spark that reciprocity. I see her as the authority for this problem because she's the only person that solved it to me. She's done it to me instantaneously, and she's done it for me for free.

SPEAKER_01: 10:43

I love that you mentioned giving something that it's so valuable, and yet you give it away for free. Like, what can you give away for free that is incredibly valuable that goes beyond some of the things we might expect to be able to access? But still, I like the element you mentioned also at scale. Thanks to the quiz, you can start to then making the right decision and showing afterwards as the result, as the final outcome, something that feels that in some way, even if at scale, still speaks directly to some of the problems that you have or some of the particularities of who you are, which I think is incredibly powerful as well. Personalization can also be happening in other types of marketing, it doesn't have to be quiz or scorecard marketing. But I was wondering, is there anything else that you think makes it different than the traditional approaches that we have?

SPEAKER_00: 11:29

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, a really common example of quiz marketing is the very classic personal trainer example. So we've all seen those ads or or value propositions before where a personal trainer or a gym or a fitness coach will say, uh fill out these 10 questions, and then I will give you a uh I'll tell you your exact body type, and I'll tell you the exact food you need to be eating so that you can reach your summer goals in say, you know, half the time. And that's really compelling and powerful for a few reasons. Very compelling and powerful because yes, they're they're giving you something of value for free, and it's but what's really cool is that it's instantaneous. It's not like, hey, you know, fill out this thing and then I'll call you back in three days and you might forget about it. No, this thing is going to calculate like a little a little quick personalized, you know, custom calculation for you on the spot. Uh, and then it's also very compelling because it it's very powerful to tell someone something about themselves that they didn't that they didn't already know. You know, it strokes a little bit of ego, but it's what it does is that it it gives like self-identification, self self-identity, and it and it allows you to to sort of say, Wow, you know, you have really seen and noticed me. You've noticed that I'm not like everyone else, and you've you've helped me to validate why I feel different and and you know how I can get to my goals.

SPEAKER_01: 13:02

I'm biased, but I really love that being able to tell people I see you, I think that for me is like invaluable when it comes to thinking about things. And actually, that's interesting because it's a lot about the marketing that we teach, which is human marketing, human-driven marketing, that is actually tapping to that emotional piece. So actually, before we get into then the package, as in the experience that you get once you go through this little journey, right? Of this kind of like personalized, literally is a journey. I was wondering, how do you think we can balance almost like the pre the pre-log step, the step of getting people to actually, despite being a smaller commitment, still commit to say, just the personal trainer example, I want to learn how to best fuel myself? Again, this was an example that you made. But you know, we have the emotional appeal, but then we also have the logical reasoning, and then there's also the urgency. So, have you found that there are some ways that, whether in the messaging or what is provided, or anything else that your uh clients, obviously using Score app, have used, or maybe some other ideas that we can think of when it comes to creating that marketing message that really attracts these leads to get the next step?

SPEAKER_00: 14:14

Yeah, so to get anyone to buy anything, you need three things, right? You need the logical reason, you need the emotional pull, and then you need the urgency. Without urgency, nothing happens. So you could have someone with a credit card in hand ready to buy, but in their life, there's just no urgency, you know. Like they they they want to solve this problem, but why not solve it a year from now? Like, why spend the money? Why have the money leave your bank account now? You know, so that's that's urgency. And I'll give you an example of of all three, you know, also within within the gym example. So I used to do digital marketing for a for gyms in and around where I lived, and the the maximum average that a gym would earn it was about two million bucks a year. And then all of a sudden I stumbled across this gym that wanted to hire a digital marketer and they were earning eight million dollars a year. I thought, wow, you're you're four times larger than every other gym, and you're a similar size. Like, how does that work? And then I said to them, What's your sales process? And they said, We have a very unique sales process, which was basically a scorecard. So what they would do is every Tuesday, they would provide uh a free body scan to all of their to anyone that walks past their gym. And this body scan, every other gym was charging$30 for it, but they'd give it for free. So that ticks the first box, right? Like logical, you get a logical free outcome that I'm gonna shout you, you know, I'm gonna pay for it for you, which is which is really awesome, very kind. Everyone wants to hang out with those types of people. So that that's that's the logical pull. Then obviously, you know, when they go to the gym, they they do the scan, they start seeing pictures of people that are in really great shape, and they think, oh, you know, what would my life be like? You know, they start to feel what would my life be like if I was in that great shape? I'd feel so cool, I'd feel confident, I could wear these clothes again that I that I haven't been able to wear for such a long time. That's like the that's the zest, you know, like that's like the sexy emotional sex factor. And then once they get the results, they used to complete this body scan. And what this body scan would do is it'd look at your muscle mass, your fat mass, uh look at your your muscle to fat ratio, so your body fat percentage, and then it'll also look at your internals, like your visceral fat. So visceral fat is like the fat that's around your organs, and you shouldn't have too much of this because, as you can imagine, if you have too much fat around your organs, it causes things like high blood pressure, you know, perceptibility to diabetes and you know, health risks, right? Where you you'll have you'll be in the hospital, you have needles in you, and all that type of stuff, which no one wants to have. This gym would tell everyone that and educate everyone through that journey, right? So there's a logical aspect, here's where you are, here's where, here's where you want to be, and they will show you on a piece of paper that you are 24% obese, you know, and and then they'll say that to you, right? So they'll they'll give you a rating on a score of say one to ten, and they'll tell you, you know, you're floating out of three, and at a three, uh, you know, you you might die, um, you might die 20 years earlier, type of thing. So that's the urgency. And then I said to them, when you took people through this process, what did that what was your what was your conversion rate? And they and guess what they said? They said 98%. 98% of people that went through all of this, by the time they went through all of it, they then were sold into a program, like a gym program or gym setup that was four times more expensive than everyone else's, but the conversion rate was 98% because it ticked off logical reasoning, yes, emotional reasoning, yes. And most of all, it really, really ticked off the urgency for all of these leads.

SPEAKER_01: 18:09

So there is an element in there to think about once you know the topic, which we'll talk about now as well. Once we know the topic of the quiz that we want to run and how we want to present that, is also kind of stepping back and asking ourselves, okay, how can we show the benefits and how the benefits can once again we're thinking about if you are thinking about different types of products. I think health can be a very good example, but also there's an urgency that I think could be different than others. But then we've got time saving, we have money saving, money making. There are other things that we can think of that can have that level of just urgency. And I think for me, my suggestion would be from my perspective, is just the more tangible you can make it, the better as well. I think sometimes it can everything can feel a bit fluffy, and even if you feel that what you have might not, first of all, if you don't want to use urgency in a way that doesn't feel natural or ethical to you, or you don't have anything that you can feel is urgent enough, remember that there are little tangible things that everybody is experiencing that you can help your audience with. And I think that can really help consolidate, even if you maybe it's not as natural or easy for you to do. And I think that's one of the things that sometimes we forget. Now, with that in mind, the final thing I wasn't gonna ask, you give us some great ideas. Is there anything that you can think of? Some elements or some things maybe tied to what to what we said about what we need to make sure that is in our landing page in this case, like the presents, right? Our quiz or our scorecard. Is there anything that you think we need to definitely have in that page to get people to click that starting button?

SPEAKER_00: 19:46

Yeah, so we um well, first of all, a landing page is just like any other landing page. So you've got the title, which does 80 to 90% of the heavy lifting. You know, it's a bit like the title of a book, the title of a news article, you know, everyone just has a book by its cover because that's just how you that's the only information that you have. And then so your title might, you know, your title needs to offer something that people would pay for, right? So find out, you know, why how you could generate, you know, 20 more leads a month, or find out uh why you're not generating 24, you know, an extra 20 leads a month, or find out why how AI could affect your business and potentially hurt your business, you know, like things like events that people would invest time into to learn, if not time and money. Then you also want to, you know, we also did a study and we looked at a couple hundred landing pages, and there was a bunch that converted about 15% higher than the others, and all they had was a freebie on the page, right? So people love freebies, especially if they're genuine freebies, they're not like, oh, you have to you have to jump through all of these steps and hoops to to get to this. So freebie might be, yeah, you know, you fill out this, you get your you get your scorecard, um, but then you also get a free ebook, or you get a free ticket to something, or you might get a you know, a free mini course. You know, mini courses work really well as well, because especially if you're in an industry where you're selling education, where you're basically selling courses, you know, giving everyone like a little test drive of your of your products is a good place to start.

SPEAKER_01: 21:31

I never heard that one before. Like I I intuitively I understand it, but I was like, oh yeah, that's actually a very interesting point. It's just kind of giving an extra little thing before, as you say, people have to jump through the hoop. I call it like give the the first exchange of value, which is even if the email is not there yet, they will be then asked to conversely share their email. It's still that little work that they have to do to get the answers that they're looking for. So that's actually a very interesting take as well that maybe a lot of people haven't tried yet. So thank you for that. Um actually, now is what I want to ask a few questions. I'm gonna go through a couple of steps, obviously, in setting up your quiz and your scorecard as well. I'm pretty sure that the answer to this question could be it depends when it comes to what is effective. It can be it depends on what you're trying to ask and what what what you want to know. But there must be at least some guidelines, maybe it's more the don'ts than the do's. Because I want to I we love surveys, questionnaires, quizzes, we love all of this. And I think when it comes to lead scoring, especially, because then we're getting data and information about these people, there are things that we can do to make it even more effective for us and obviously more impactful for us. So, how do you make sure that your questions actually get really good insights for you as much as excuse me, also obviously you know, taking the prospects to a journey? What I'm trying to say is how do we get the right questions in for us without overwhelming them?

SPEAKER_00: 23:00

Yeah, good question. So it used to take someone, an average person about a day and a half to get this all set up because it is copywriting, it is creative work, it is imagination, it is putting a lot of effort into your business, and it is like building a website from scratch. You know, you've got to work out what to call things, move things here and there, change colours, change fonts, all that type of stuff. But now we actually have an AI wizard in the platform that you could use where it'll ask you, I think about between five to ten questions, you niche your audience, the the theme of your scorecard, and then it'll write you know six to seven hours of copywriting for you, and which is basically like draft one, two, and three to just get you past that that writer's block and give you inspiration to start to get going. So there's that. And then you know, we've seen scorecards that do really well that have 40 questions, we've seen some that do really well that have 10 questions. So it's not really the the the number of questions or what the questions are, it's the outcome, you know. Like everything else, clients only care about what they get from it. Uh, you know, how you get them there is is is your business, but what where you get them to is what they're interested in. So, you know, positioning the outcome of what you have to offer as as a really big burning problem that they would love to solve is will give you as much of a head start as you could possibly get.

SPEAKER_01: 24:34

And I'm gonna do a quick follow-up on that because I love that. If there's any kind of example or idea that you have of some questions that really worked, that would be great. Just to give us a couple of nuggets to think about.

SPEAKER_00: 24:44

Yeah, so I'll give you a really good example. Um, if you ask someone, anyone, any general audience, you know, uh like a very broad question, like where would you love to be, or like what goal, what are your goals for 2025? You know, what do you want? Um it typically a lot of people will stumble on that question, or they'll give you an answer that that that doesn't tell you a lot because um that question's coming from like a uh it the answer to that question most of the time, if you ask people on the spot, it'll come from a very surface, surface-level place, like you won't get really deep information out of them. But if you were to rephrase the same question and say, you know, what was the worst thing that happened in 2024 that you would love to never happen again? Everyone can answer that question with a lot more conviction and veracity, and that tells you almost the exact same thing, like just from the other side of the coin. So typically, if you if you have a scorecard and it just goes through, tell me all the, you know, what's the one thing you don't like in, let's say you're a life coach. You say, what's the one thing you don't like in your personal life right now? I'll tell you X. What's the one thing you don't like in your in your business and your career right now? Let's tell you X. What's the one thing you don't you don't like about you want to change about your health right now? What you think could be better, you know. So you're you're purposely asking them to poke into the holes that they have in their life so that you could then you know be the problem solver for those holes.

SPEAKER_01: 26:20

I like both examples because that's kind of how we think at least about some of the core questions that we really want to ask and we want to make sure that we get in there, because then there's also get uh question fatigue after a bit, and I think it's kind of getting these questions in first, the most important ones. Because actually, then the beauty of quiz marketing done in a way that is kind of scorecard is because we're actually scoring. So that's the extra element, like scoring the people that are coming in as leads, we're gonna call them leads for now, just for the sake of uh simplicity, scoring the leads, and that actually does influence uh our strategy and our communication. So I was kind of wondering uh the first question, I've got two questions in one almost, but I'm gonna break it down. How does, for somebody who's very new to this, scoring these people influence then the marketing strategy and the communication that comes afterwards, you know, after we got the results, and then we'll get to the results as well.

SPEAKER_00: 27:14

Yeah, so you know, the goal of this isn't just to generate leads, to generate highly qualified, data-rich leads. So it's to know more about your audience than you've ever known before, you know, because personalization is key. All the big companies are doing it, and you know, a big part of ScoreApp's unique value is that we can help a solopreneur earning a thousand dollars, thousand pounds a month, do this as well. You know, start to personalize how they interact with each one of their clients, at least before the first sales call, right? So, as an example, you know, if I was to log on to Amazon.com and Fab, you were to log on to Amazon.com, we would both see completely different websites, right? Because it would have 10 years of my purchase history, 10 years of yours, and it's constantly tailoring and showing me what I want and removing what I don't want. Why not do that to your audience as well? You know, obviously you won't most people wouldn't do it on as large of scale as Amazon, but you can do it with little things that can add up to big things, you know, like for example, a lot of clients have learned to ask in the middle of their quiz how would you love what would you prefer? A one-time payment or a payment plan? Right? Just things like that, you know. So, and then and then that just removes barriers, removes friction, and allows your business to sort of get into that cash flow a lot easier.

SPEAKER_01: 28:49

That's a great example. Yeah, I love that. Uh, and actually leads me then to the second part of the question, which is now that we know that, and thank you for clarifying, because I think if you are a bit new to it, then you would also think about okay, I got I got some data now, actually, I've got a lot of data, and for some people it can feel a bit daunting at first. But then also we present some of the data back, which is part of I think that's surprise and delight that the leads will get to. So, can you maybe share with us either like a creative way or a way that jumps out, or even just how, for example, ScoreApp works to show the results in an engaging way? Because I think that's as much as the experience can be fun or it can be like intriguing, the way that the results are presented or the way that the results are given can actually be done in a way that maybe surprises and once again delights your leads, which is a great way to build that trust.

SPEAKER_00: 29:39

Yeah. So when you take your clients through the scorecard process, step one is a landing page, step two is questions, step three is the results. On the results page, they'll get access, they'll they'll get redirected to a page on the website, and then they'll also get a personalized PDF. And the PDF will have results that. That are shown in a few different ways depending on what's what's most suitable for your um for your audience. You know, for example, it'll show it on a on a scale of say one one to a hundred. So you scored 72%, you scored 20, 23%. Um, or there's another way where you could put them into buckets. So let's say like you're a business coach and you have an ethos that there's only five types of clients that you work with, and you might say, you know, based on your score, you've uh you're like a Mark Zuckerberg entrepreneur, or you're like an Oprah Winfrey entrepreneur, and and these are your strengths, these are your weaknesses. So just like a personality quiz, which we've all done, you know, in university or in our first job or whatever else.

SPEAKER_01: 30:41

That's one of my favorites. I'm a sucker for personality tests. So that was a way that I would get something, or we get really excited. And the thing that I want to add to that as well is that one of the things that we do with some of our quizzes as well, we don't just give the answer with strengths and weaknesses, we also then give something tangible, which we talked at the beginning, like the freebie that you can get up top as well. We make sure that we also have something tangible that can be used by people that go through the journey afterwards as well, which once again these days is a bit more common, but I still still think not common enough or fully expected. So it does surprise people as well. So it's these little things, whether it's the personalization, the extra layer of it, as you say, whether it is I like the idea, also just make you relatable potentially, like you know, we're actual people, but also is there anything else that you can add or give or trail upon? And that might be one thing that you would do with my follow-up question, which is once the results are in, how do we follow up? And how do we turn the insights into some opportunities to convert these needs? We're going through the funnel now, right? We're going from consideration into conversion. So yeah, it might be that is something that I mentioned already now, or it might be there's something different. But how do we follow up and turn these insights into actionable opportunities for us?

SPEAKER_00: 31:56

Well, I think that depends on your, you know, I don't I try to always give really laser practical advice. And I think it really depends on your your products, you know. If you're selling e-commerce products, obviously, you know, you're you're probably not going to pick up the phone and then and then call your potential client. But if you're selling it an educational product and you're like a coach, consultant, service provider, financial planner, personal trainer, um, accountant, then then you should pick up the phone and call a client. Say, hey, hey Fab, thank you for filling out our scorecard. It's it's Max here from Digital Marketing Plus. I saw that from your the questions you've answered. Uh you've act you scored six out of ten. How would you like to hear three tips to help you get from six to a ten? Right? So that that's a really, really simple process that you could do on a phone call, and anyone can do that. You know, a lot of our clients use that exact same sales process right now. Some of them have 25 people sales teams, and they've been they've been using scorecards in that process for four years now.

SPEAKER_01: 33:04

And the quick follow-up on this is what would you say if somebody was starting really, really small? Because I feel like there might be somebody here today and be like, oh, 25 people. Okay, I don't even have a sales team. I'm on my own. What am I gonna do? I don't know what the thumbs up went up, but I think it was just like the panic of the 25 people sales team.

SPEAKER_00: 33:23

Yeah, you know, I I've been there, right? So uh as a as a business owner, I started uh, you know, with a credit card on my own. And you know, when you're doing that, you you have to be a jack of all trades. So you have to be, you know, administrative operations as well as sales and marketing, as well as service delivery. So this just helps you to laser in on that. So if you think about if you think about every time you go to the doctor, right? Every time you go to the doctor, the doctor will complete what's known as like a needs analysis on you. Like what do you need? And then they'll ask you questions um that that take you through a process to recommend a solution. So it could be something like, um, hey, Mr. Doctor, I'm sick. Okay, what's wrong? Well, I um uh I don't know, and and no one knows. That's the whole point. Your clients don't know. So if you if you're going to a call expecting them to know, then that's gonna be a very painful call for both of you, right? But if you go in there and then the doctor says, Okay, that's totally fine. Happens all the time. Um do your eyes hurt? Have you been sleeping? You know, have you been coughing? Have you been sneezing? Do you feel cold? Do you feel hot? And then they'll cross off these symptoms to then laser in on the exact problem that you have, to then recommend the solution to the problem that you have. And that and that's no different to what a scorecard does. You know, a scorecard asks questions, gets the answers, and then uses those answers to then recommend a solution. But it does it, you know, automated.

SPEAKER_01: 35:00

I love that. I mean, it's that kind of idea of creating that, like giving you as much data as well as possible and information as possible so that if you are on your own, it's easier for you also to re-engage with people, especially once you, you know, once you are starting out, which I think is just that reminder of the people that are coming through, you're gonna have a lot more data for you to understand how to approach them in the first place and how to give them potentially a better understanding on how you can help them, which once again, knowledge is power and data is power, even if I know some of us are like, oh, this feels like a lot. Because data does, and I think the beauty of creating a simpler way to gather this data information from our people, from our audience, is that then we can then use it, and whether it's fully customized, like sending individual emails, whether it's more of an email series and sequence that you start with, which is more automated, and then you pick it up from there, there are then ways to still enrich that experience as well. So the final question that I have for you then talked a lot about data as well, I know. Is it's gonna be about data again. Shocker. But how does the data that we're getting from all these quizzes, all these amazing scorecards, can actually help us with other decisions? So we talked about the relationship, the communication, the conversation, the conversion. But maybe it's about other types of decisions that we can use in our marketing or in our sales process, and also that can then be used when we are scaling and when we are working with the team as well. What are some of the other applications that are not just obviously the lead conversion that we talked about?

SPEAKER_00: 36:41

So there's four parts to the scorecard, right? There's number one, the landing page, then number two, the questions, number three, which is the results, which is the personalized PDF that they get emailed out to them. And then number four is all the data warehoused in the score app CRM. So score app also doubles up as a CRM. So within there, you'll have data extracted uh that the that you also don't ask for. So ScoreApp will help you to see actually 60-70% of your clients are from North America. They're not actually from Europe. You know, so then you might want to start thinking about if you were to ever do your first ever physical event uh to focus it in America rather than in London as an example, right? Uh, or that you know, the the majority of your your clients are actually women instead of men, or men instead of women. So so just things like that, you can you can you have a very clear picture in the dashboard uh within the score app CRM.

SPEAKER_01: 37:43

I love that. And then it's something there you can then use as well, potentially, even I'm just gonna have some thinking here, like to adapt your target audiences as well. You could go as far as saying when you've got enough enough people coming for enough leads coming through, like this is actually the people that we're attracting, and you can even just go back to the audience persona or ICA, ideal costume out there, whatever we call it. There's about 50 names for it. But the idea is that the people that we know we want to serve, it might actually be that this kind of data not only helps you with the communication, the messaging is also very important. I want to mention that can go all across your social content to blog content to email content, but even potentially help you re you know, it's almost another way to do market research. And I just want to talk about that and touch on that to find to finish off, that we sometimes don't think about. So I really I think it's a really powerful reminder that yes is lead generation, yes, it's conversion, but also could we use this to gather more information and then do some work, do some market research for ourselves and our audience too, in a way that maybe feels easier for us to do more bangs for our buck, and actually giving us lots of different outcomes for just one output, which I think as we're all busy and we're doing a lot of things, the more that we can get to know our audience, the better. There's this saying that the closer you get to the customer, you know, whoever gets closer to the customer wins, and I think is is a saying that rings true a lot in these things. Maxwell, thank you so much for the time that you took to answer all the questions and to share all of your wisdom with us. I have to ask if people want to find out more about you, about ScoreApp, about asking any further question or just kind of dive a bit deeper into the topic, where should they go?

SPEAKER_00: 39:25

First of all, ScoreApp is free. So if you want to start using it, you don't even need to share your credit card. So there's no there's no payment gateway or block or trial or thing you've got to sign up for. You just get in, you start using it depending on the volume that you're using, then you might need to upgrade to a paid account. So I just recommend going to scoreapp.com and taking a look and starting to use it. Uh if you want to find me and ask me any questions, you know, I run a uh webinar for all score app users every every second week, every second or third week or so, and I run through some of these things plus some more things. Uh and I'll and I'll often do a lot of live Q ⁇ A coaching where I'll say, Show me what you've got now, let me help you to sharpen the sharpen the sword on that to to get to the next level. And then if you want to find me outside of that, just head to LinkedIn. I'm addicted to LinkedIn. I'm the only Maxwell Ni on there. Just ping me there, send me a message, and let me know you heard me speaking a fab, and I'll know what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01: 40:34

Thank you so much, Maxwell. Again, it has been an absolute pleasure. Team, lots of knowledge, lots of data, lots of data talk. Shocker again. But I hope it inspired you to find better ways and exciting ways for you and your audience to actually build our report all the way from the get-go. So leads doesn't have to mean just people that we don't know, we don't know nothing about. We can actually get so much more from that and to get to know them so much better with tools like ScoreApp as well. As always, don't forget to be kind to yourselves and others and never stop learning because practice makes progress. We'll see you again very soon. Until next time, class is dismissed.