Know Happiness
A series about how we seek, find, and sustain happiness in some of the most unusual ways.
Know Happiness
Sibling Relationships & How Childhood Shapes You Differently w/ Dustin Fults | Ep. 21
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In this episode of "Know Happiness", I sit down with my brother, Dustin, for one of the most personal and honest conversations we’ve ever had.
Life can be messy, chaotic and sometimes painful, but we dive into what happiness really means when life isn’t perfect. From growing up in a single-parent household to navigating divorce, parenting, and forgiveness, this conversation explores how our childhood shaped who we are today.
00:00 - Intro
00:31 - Happiness Means to Dustin...
03:40 - The Benefits & Challenges of Involved Parenthood
09:03 - Dustin's Earliest Childhood Memories
16:35 - Same Household, Different Perspectives
27:19 - One Childhood Story that Shaped Dustin
32:50 - What Childhood Felt Like for Dustin
35:35 - Dustin's Purpose on this Earth
37:20 - Lindsay & Dustin Share Personal Stories
46:12 - Stories & Teachings of Adulthood
53:33 - What is Dustin's Legacy?
54:56 - Memories of Sibling Rivalries
57:49 - Outro
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ABOUT KNOW HAPPINESS
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Intro
SPEAKER_02Welcome to Know Happiness, a podcast where we explore how we seek, find, and sustain happiness in some of the most unusual places. Today I have a guest, my brother, Dustin. He is a husband, a father, a wine aficionado. I don't know anything else you can think of that you would classify yourself as?
SPEAKER_01Glorified Uber driver, probably, with that doesn't get paid.
SPEAKER_02Right. Well, welcome.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for having
Happiness Means to Dustin...
SPEAKER_01me.
SPEAKER_02The first question I ask all my guests is what is happiness to you?
SPEAKER_01Being right here with you, of course. Oh, sure. Um, that's a great question. Um I think we're always trying to search for happiness, right? Um I feel like you have your ups and downs with happiness. Sometimes it's really a good time. I mean, typically being with family and friends is where I find my happiness. Um I just lost a really good friend a couple months ago, and um I had such an incredible time driving with friends to go to his funeral, and it was awesome. Yeah. Um, we had dinner and just joked and laughed, and it was such a great time and such a hard time.
SPEAKER_02So I've had, you know, I've had quite a few guests on here that talk about what happiness means to them. And I think there's this an illusion of, you know, that we're always searching for what makes us happy, and then we get it, and then it's like you're happy for a few minutes, yeah, maybe a few days, and then you're on to the next thing. And so it's fleeting. And so I've had a lot of guests come and say that like being finding peace in in is really more of a happiness, you know, that if you're content, that is happiness because you can be content with in whatever phase of life that you're in, no matter what's going on in your life, you can still be content, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I I feel like I'm just so busy with so much going on with three kids. It's it's so much sometimes. And it's like you just have to take a step back and breathe and be like, okay, like this is all what it's supposed to be like. Right. So just embrace this the cra chaos and craziness. And it's so true because it goes so fast. I mean, Ella is already how old are you now? I remember taking her to Target when she was just, you know, four, three or four, and just, you know, now she's an adult.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01In her own relationship.
SPEAKER_02It does go fast. And, you know, I think it's easy when you're in the midst of the chaos to be like, fuck this, this is bullshit, nobody, you know, and in a blink of an eye, it's gone. Yeah. And then you have you're left with kids coming to visit. They're all off at college or have their own families, and it's like, then what?
SPEAKER_01We have friends that have older kids, and they're all like, I just always remember them. Like, it goes so fast. So it take it while you can. And I remember a good friend of mine who's got kids that she has a senior in high school and then a kid in college. And I remember helping her carry something out of her car one time, and there was crumbs and shit all over the inside of the car. And I was like, oh my God, like this is terrible. Now, now the other day, I literally was vacuuming out my car, and I'm like, I am that person. Like, there is Doritos and French fries and things that have been sitting there for weeks. Yeah. And it's like, I guess just enjoy it while you can.
SPEAKER_02Enjoy the mess. Well,
The Benefits & Challenges of Involved Parenthood
SPEAKER_02I noticed like you with your you were everything our dad really wasn't. You're so engaged, you're so present. It's just really, and I know I've told you this a gazillion times, but it's true. And I really honor that and and value that. And I think that what you're doing with these kids is so important. Having a stable, involved, healthy father is the best gift.
SPEAKER_01I think you're right. It's probably I'm overcompensating because I'm coaching their teams, like even when I don't really want to like I decided this last year, like I don't want to coach kids when they're just starting because I'm too competitive and it's just it's a it's a you have to really dial it back.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And um, you know, I'm pretty hard on our kids in terms of coaching them because I remember what it was like going against the kid whose dad was the coach, and I got you know taken out on by that guy because I could beat his kid, and he was like, he would take it out on me. So I'm extra hard on my kids because I don't want them to think that they're getting any extra preferential treatment. Right. And so, you know, I'm probably extremely hard on them versus the other kids on the team. Right. Just for that reason.
SPEAKER_02But well, you know what's interesting, and I Scott has really helped me with this because I kind of took mom's form of parenting, like kind of the top-down authoritarian, like you will listen to me. There was no, like, I know you're gonna experiment with things. It was like you won't, and I'm not going to let you, or I'm gonna attempt to prevent you. Whereas we've kind of you you've got 18 years with these kids, and then they're they're adults, and so the majority of their life is spent as more of a friend, you know. Yes, you'll always be their parent, but so developing that relationship where they feel comfortable telling you things, sometimes things you don't necessarily want to know or hear, but that they feel because if they can trust that they can tell you something and you're not gonna ground them or they're not gonna be in trouble for being honest, you're gonna get a lot more information. I mean, I tried to hide everything from mom. And I'm just curious what your take is on how you're going to parent, you know, as these teen years start approaching.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I think it's it's a balance between Ton and I because we had completely different upbringings, right? So Ton is very strict because she didn't get to do anything. Like take her parents, they come to this country, they don't speak English, they don't know what dances and things like that are. They didn't have those things where they came from in Vietnam. So, you know, she's very strict, and I think a lot of that is because that's how she was brought up. And so she's trying to find a good balance in that too, because you know, she didn't get to do all the sports things that the kids do. So she's trying to like immerse them in everything because she didn't get any of that. Um, you know, our friends uh love to go skiing, and I'm I like to ski, but they they'll go every day if you let them, right? And so Taunt wants to go do these ski trips with them as much as we can. We've got them season passes to the ski park, right? And I'm like, let's slow down. Like we're already doing a hundred things at once. Let's but you know, she's all about giving them all these things that she never got. Um, and so you know, we have to kind of I I think it's a challenge between the two of us as to, you know, how much we're involved. I mean, she's in all of these uh, you know, committee PTA and all these different things with the school soccer board and the schools, and so you know, just it's it becomes a lot. Yeah. And so I think it is important to be able to say no to things, right? And uh Kyle, who we're basically we call each other, you know, uh their family and our family are basically one and the same because we're constantly hauling kids around, and it's been a super blessing having them because our kids are all the same age for the most part, and they're all involved in the same thing. So shuttling kids to and from places has been great to have them in our lives, but we constantly are laughing because our wives say yes to everything, and now they're in the PTA and da-da-da-da-da-da-th-th, and they don't know how to say no. And so we're like, say no, right? Stop.
SPEAKER_02Well, and there's that old saying, you know, parents put your oxygen mask on first before assisting your kids. And if you are so run down and depleted, and that because you're going 24-7 and not never saying no, are you giving your best face to the world? Right? Are you giving the best to your kids?
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_02Pouring from an empty cup. So I think you you've nailed it when you say the balance, you know, and it's a tight rope.
SPEAKER_01That's where your happiness is. You got to find that balance.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's like in wine too. So the best wines are typically balanced wines, right? There's a little bit of oak, there's a little bit of fruit, um, there's a nice smooth finish. It's usually balanced wine. So there's uh, you know, a lot of similarities there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
Dustin's Earliest Childhood Memories
SPEAKER_02So let's take it back since we're siblings. I've obviously never interviewed a member of my family. And I know mom is like terrified of what might come out.
SPEAKER_04Like what's here?
SPEAKER_02She always says, you know, it's always the mother's fault. Yeah, it is. I was gonna say you could probably relate, yeah. I I fully understand that. Um I want to know, like, what one of your earliest childhood memories is.
SPEAKER_01Well, we were talking about it earlier, and I mean, just I don't remember details or anything, but I just remember us in that Lincoln apartment way back when, and just we had a train track behind our house, and I remember the train going by, and we we I I mean, it was in the middle of the night, trains would go by. Um, I do remember, you know, a lot more at our 71st Street.
SPEAKER_02So once we moved.
SPEAKER_01Once we moved to Kansas City, you know, obviously some of those first memories of mine are constantly hanging in our backyard because we had that creek that ran through, and I remember going through those culverts and we'd like we'd be miles away from home.
SPEAKER_02And you know, or at least it felt like miles.
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, it was I would not want my kid in today's age to be walking that far unattended in, you know, who knows who the hell's out there, but we used to do it.
SPEAKER_02Vagrants living in the sewers. Well, we played in sewers. Yep.
SPEAKER_01And we'd come back, you know, as soon as nightfall came, we'd be come running back to the house. And, you know, mom was never there. She was working. I mean, I think about you know, some of the stuff she's told me, and she's like, well, at least you have somebody with you. And it's like makes you appreciate her even more so because she was pretty much doing it by herself. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So just to catch people up who might be listening to this, a little backstory is our parents got divorced when I was five.
SPEAKER_01Two and five.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And you know, mom did our mother didn't have a lot of money. I mean, she was pretty much broke. Yeah. Uh, and at that time, our dad didn't really have a lot of money. He was just a floor nurse.
SPEAKER_01So Yeah, I think he was saying he made like six dollars an hour or something. I think he was gonna make nine dollars an hour when he took the Hanford job.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01Or and then they gave they bumped it up to eleven dollars an hour or something. And I'm like, holy crap.
SPEAKER_02Like now that's you know, 40 years ago or whatever.
SPEAKER_01But are we that old?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, really. But the point being that she was a single mother with no money. And what's funny is like, so I don't know, you probably don't carry this same story, but for the my most of my life, I blamed dad for moving to California. And mom would had always said, Well, your dad left us. Your dad left, you know. And now as I've gotten older, I've been able to figure out that, well, actually, she moved. She moved us to Kansas City, which was three and a half hours from where he was, which meant we probably weren't gonna see him, but maybe once a month. I mean, that's not like just an easy weekend, you know, it's like once a month.
SPEAKER_04That's a haul.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So in reality, and this is no fault to mom, and I don't want her to think I'm, you know, but that was her perception of what happened. But the reality was she moved. And we wouldn't have seen him much anyway, whether he was in California or Lincoln. Now, by him moving to California, that extended, you know, the twice a year. Yeah. That minimized seeing him way more. But it made me really angry with dad for a really long time.
SPEAKER_04Sure.
SPEAKER_02Um, thinking that he'd abandoned us. And that was my story, you know. So I've carried that abandonment wound my whole life. Right. And no, we weren't dad's top priority. And I think he would admit and acknowledge that. Um, whereas with mom, we were her primary, you know, she of course had to work, you know.
SPEAKER_01Well, wasn't that part of the reason she moved? She got a job. She had a job offer that paid well. Yeah. And, you know, she probably got to the point where she like probably needed to get away, I would think, too, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um well, she didn't have any family there. I'm surprised she didn't move to like Des Moines, where she had a sister that lived there and her parents that were close. Thank God she didn't.
SPEAKER_01But she knew the person she was moving down here to work for, didn't she?
SPEAKER_02Oh, well, I think within the Adventist community, they all, you know, kind of maybe went to Oak Park Academy together. You know, it's a small circle in that Avenist uh group. But yeah, she moved us down here. I was in the second grade, so you would have been in before precause I remember I remember going to the hospital daycare. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Where mom worked at one point.
SPEAKER_02Uh she for a very long time, she worked at Shawnee Mission Medical Center, and I was a latchkey kid. I mean, she couldn't afford daycare for both of us. Like all of her child support went to your daycare. So everything she made was just to pay rent, and we had this tiny little duplex, you know, and she made it nice.
SPEAKER_01I I wouldn't say it was tiny. I mean, it was three stories, right? There was a basement.
SPEAKER_02The scary basement.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I'd love to see it now just to kind of know we should drive by what it looks like. We should go in it. We should see if we should get it. Ring the doorbell. Yeah. See if we can get in that place.
SPEAKER_02Well, it is funny as a kid how you think things are so much bigger, or you just remember them differently than the if they really are once you grow up. But anyway, I I I'm sidetracked. No, that's okay. I was just talking about uh being a latchkey kid, you know, and I remember, you know, being terrified to come home and be alone. And I figured it out. You know, I walked home from school. I remember I got dropped off at a donut shop right next to my elementary school. And this is it, like, can you imagine doing this with an eight-year-old? I mean, I think that's how old I was, maybe even younger.
SPEAKER_01Second grade, maybe a little younger, probably.
SPEAKER_02Probably seven. Uh, and I was be responsible for making sure I got to school on time, you know, and just walk over. That's a lot.
SPEAKER_01Well, I especially this day and age, like nobody, like your kid, your parents are with you until you go to school at that age, right? Like you're dropping them off. My kids want me to walk them to the school. Like, so I used to just drop one off, but now both of them are like, can you just pull over and walk us? I'm like, all right. I guess I don't have a meeting, so we'll do that. But I have to walk them in. Right. You know, we didn't have that luxury when we were kids. It was like mom's at work, walk your ass to school.
SPEAKER_02Well, and I think of like that with my own kids. Like Ella got a very different childhood than Calder. When Ella was little, I had to work. I was in nursing school and then I had to work. And with Calder, I was in a far different situation. I didn't have to work. And so I got to be involved in all of his school things, you know. And so, you know, and this will kind of lead us to where we're gonna discuss like
Same Household, Different Perspectives
SPEAKER_02growing up in the same household, how you have two totally different people that come out of that with different perspectives and and how that happens, you know, like your kids really do get different versions of you because you're at different points in your life. You think you're parenting the same. The reality is there's no way you possibly could because you're not the same as you were 11 years ago.
SPEAKER_01Well, and your kids aren't the same, right? Like your kids are completely different. Yeah, and that's crazy to me. Like the the stark differences between those kids, it it's they're miles apart. Right. Completely different people. But um, you were talking about your perspective of dad, so I I don't know that we finished that.
SPEAKER_02Right, yeah, no, um, thinking that he had abandoned us, and it's really taken me probably 40 years or 35, whatever, to find some forgiveness for that situation. You know, I learning and knowing that he really didn't have a lot of options and all the things that had happened with him in the burn unit, and that he had this opportunity in California. Mom had already moved us away. You know, Scott always says, Well, I would have said no. I wouldn't have let you go. I mean, technically he had to allow and approve when your parent people divorce, you can't just move a child out of the state without the consent of the other parent. And, you know, so there's still a little bit of like, oh, we didn't really fight for us. Yeah, you know. Um but that's okay. Like I understand where dad was in his life. He was what, 20, 30 years old, you know, he was still pretty young too. And you know, now we find out having another child. Oh, yeah, that as he was separated from our mother, our little 40-year-old uh love child uh sister.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, he he definitely put himself first in many situations, whereas I don't think mom did that. Like I feel like mom, we were priority one, yeah. And how we survived, she was gonna figure out a way to make that happen, right? And dad probably got off pretty easy because she moved away, right? And it's like, oh well, I mean, if that's what she wants to do, and right, that gives him an easy excuse to be able to move further away and advance his career. And, you know, I I think in hindsight, I always gave dad the benefit of the doubt. The older I get, I'm like, we were definitely not priority one. And he's even told me, he's like, You were the father I should have been. He said that to me. And that was like how's that make you feel? Well, it's it's conflicting because it's like you know, being a father is one of the greatest things I can think of. And, you know, it's true. I don't think he was there like I would want to be there for my kids. So um, you know, it's it's a great compliment, thank you. But at the same time, it's like I wish you were.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Right?
SPEAKER_02Well, and that's the thing with regret of the past. Like, there's nothing he can do to change what he did, and he knows that. And I genuinely believe he carries around guilt and regret and shame. I mean, I didn't know that our grandparents asked him not to divorce mom.
SPEAKER_01I know that was a that was a big thing with uh, and you know, he holds grandpa in such a high regard, right? And for his father to sit there and say, You shouldn't do this, and then to him to go against that, that's a big deal. Like, I can tell that that strikes him. I mean, if you ever talk to dad about grandpa, he always gets teary-eyed. And I mean, he holds him in such a high regard.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And uh, I mean, not that grandma isn't, like, I think grandma was the base of that family, but grandpa just held him in such like, and I think that's why dad always was trying to be as best he could and get further in advance because grandpa always kept pushing him. Even he's like, there was nothing more I could have done in a baseball game, and he still would put what I did wrong and call him out on it. And I think that's a big push as to why he was very successful, right? And um put kind of that as his primary focus in life versus his children.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And you know, at that time, right? I feel like I have so much more grace for him around that. Uh, you know, and it's taken me a lot of still has ups and downs.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I'm I feel like now, probably because we are around each other a lot more, I'm probably taking advantage of that. And I shouldn't taking advantage of what? Oh, just the fact like I need to be give him more grace. Yeah. And um, I I feel like I gave him so much grace early on that I'm now throwing it at him.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, do you remember? I used to get really frustrated with you because I would be angry and you would defend him, and I'd be like, what the fuck? Like, did we not have the same childhood? Right. No. I mean, I remember being on an airplane flying back and forth. I mean, holidays sucked. I think this is why I hated flying for most of my. Adult life is because it was never pleasant. It was leaving one parent who was in tears and gonna miss us, whether it was the summer for three months or Christmas time for two weeks, or in reverse, lee, you know, like the we it was always sad.
SPEAKER_01It wasn't a win. No win. It was never somebody was upset.
SPEAKER_02And to feel happy or excited to go see the other parent, then you felt like you were hurting the other parent, like, oh, I'm not sad to leave you. Yeah, it was it was a really shitty experience.
SPEAKER_04For sure.
SPEAKER_02And, you know, then we get stuck in airports and you know, like we were on our own. We were figure it out. But you know what? Like now I wouldn't change that upbringing. I am so self-reliant. Like it, I you I fly to foreign countries alone and I don't have any fear or worry.
SPEAKER_01And being alone, I have no problem being alone whatsoever. And I'm that is definitely, I don't think my kids would be able to do that.
SPEAKER_02Like no.
SPEAKER_01Like not by themselves anyway.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So like all of it turned out, you know, the way it was meant to. The lessons that we were meant to learn in this lifetime have definitely occurred. And, you know, now in this later part of my life, like I get to understand and have such a deep forgiveness and understanding for my parents that they are just human beings.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02For the first time having kids.
SPEAKER_01Right. Like, don't judge. Just, you know, everybody's going through life at their own pace and at their own struggles and their own successes.
SPEAKER_02Coming from their own woundedness and the things they didn't get in their upbringing. And like if you're not conscious of it, you will repeat what you were taught as a kid by your parents. So there are many people who go, you know, they let's say they grow up in an alcoholic family and they hated it. And then in their adulthood, they become alcoholics. Or the other side of that coin is I hated those things about you, and I promised myself I would never be like that. And I changed.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I changed it. So like it's really up to us as to what lessons and what experiences we want to adopt and what ones we want to let go.
SPEAKER_01Well, and we're still learning, I feel like, too. I feel like that's life, right? Like you're learning as you, I mean, the things that we know now, it would be so great to have known when you're much younger, right? Like I think to me, that's one of the things that is so cool, is that you're just you're you're still learning. Like, I forgot to tell you this. Uh Florian, our cousin, second cousin, reached out to me the other day and he's just down in the dirt and trying to figure stuff out. And I'm like, dude, I'm still learning. Like you, you should not be 23 years old and have everything figured out and planned. Like, I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up, right? So, so like, you know, I was just telling him, just get a job first, like, because he's not doing anything. And I'm like, get a job, start there, and then what are you really passionate about? And then follow into those things. And then you might realize you don't like that as much as you thought you would. So I was like, you're right where you're supposed to be. Yeah. Like you're not supposed to have it all sorted and figured out at 23. I don't even have it at 44.
SPEAKER_02So let's hope not.
SPEAKER_01Right. And so boy, that'd be boring. Anyway, I think that's what life is about. Like you're you're learning and you're figuring out how to adapt and how to get better. And, you know, that's at least what I'm trying to do.
SPEAKER_02So well, and I think the current day and age where we are, people are a lot more conscious and mindful, like in their parenting styles. And, you know, like our boomer parents were raised by kind of authoritarian topics. The greatest generation. Yeah. And then those boomers raised us, which we were kind of like, well, figure it out on your own, you know, like, oh, I'm hurt. Oh, you're fine.
SPEAKER_01Throw some dirt on it. Yeah. Shut up.
SPEAKER_02Throw some tussin on it.
SPEAKER_01A little tussing on.
SPEAKER_02You know, and now we are probably over-coddling. We're creating a very soft generation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think I I don't know where it lines up, but I think that because I actually relate not as a millennial, even though I am a millennial. I relate more with Gen X. Yeah. And I think Gen X is still a little bit tougher than my generation. Yeah. Um, but I'm more like, and Ton is the same way. We are more disciplinary versus just like, oh everybody get together. You know, like, oh, you didn't mean to throw that at your sister, did you? It's like, what the hell did you just do? Like, so I don't know. I I I think there's a point where it's like, yeah, there is some overcoddling, but that's not us personally. Yeah. Um, and that's not to say that's right or wrong. Again, like going back to the judging piece, like you do you, right? We're gonna do us.
SPEAKER_02And well, you got pretty great kids, so whatever you're doing is working.
SPEAKER_01We're trying. We're trying. I mean, they all have their moments, don't get me wrong, but for the most part, they're pretty decent human beings. So I like to think we're doing something right.
SPEAKER_02You are
One Childhood Story that Shaped Dustin
SPEAKER_02so going back into childhood, do you have a childhood story that kind of shaped you?
SPEAKER_01That shaped me?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because I know I do.
SPEAKER_01Oh, let's hear it. Maybe it'll spark up something.
SPEAKER_02Which ironically is one of my very first memories was I was out in this was back in Lincoln, and I was out in the yard playing with all the neighborhood kids, and I saw dad's Jeep drive off, and it was packed full of stuff. And I just intuitively knew something was wrong, and I I ran home and I found mom on the floor bawling.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you do remember this and tell this story a lot.
SPEAKER_02And I went down to comfort her, you know. I'm comforting my mother, but first I checked all the drawers and I noticed they were empty. So he had taken his stuff. So I knew he he left.
SPEAKER_01So you were five and I was five. That's amazing. Like to like that you can remember that and that you would have the wherewithal to like look through drawers to see, you know, you saw your dad. Like I would at five, I would have been like, let's go play football.
SPEAKER_02Right. So it was very pivotal and a such a because mom looked up from me to me and said, Your father left us. And it was like in an instant, not only did our relationship, my mom and I's relationship kind of change, where it was I'm comforting her versus the other way around. But the reality was he left her. He didn't leave us, he left his marriage. Right. But I took it as I said he left us. Yeah, I'm not good, I'm not lovable, and that sense of unworthiness and unlovability like that was like pivotal in shaping how I moved through, especially teenage and early adulthood.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. No, I mean I remember you always being pissed at dad, and that's probably a big piece of it. Like that makes perfect sense to me. I didn't, you know, I wasn't old enough to you were too little. No. And you know, the the pieces I have of dad at, you know, as we go through that time frame, it's like he always wanted to be there, at least in my mind. He always wanted to come visit or wanted us to come out. Um, you know, he likes to mention that you know he never missed a child support check. I'm like, yeah, that's your fucking job. Like, what are you talking about? You're a you're a parent. You should not miss a child support payment. But you know, the it always comes back to that piece with it.
SPEAKER_02But that was a big thing for him was money.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That was his primary driving force was to be a success financially. So of course it makes sense that, like, well, I took care of you guys financially. Yeah. He was like, Well, did you?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I I think one of my memories from like divorce and growing up is just going over to friends' houses whose parents were still together. And I remember, do you remember the Vander Hagens? They lived like two blocks from the 49th Street from us. And I remember his parents always would have their friends over with their kids, and we'd all be hanging out, and they'd be playing cards and drinking and having just a time of their you know, my mom's at home right now watching television by herself, and these guys are having fun. So that always kind of stuck out to me.
SPEAKER_02Um isn't it interesting that you've created that?
SPEAKER_01What do you mean?
SPEAKER_02Well, look at your marriage, look at the friends that you have, look at how you do things.
SPEAKER_01It's all bonded through our children.
SPEAKER_02Like there's so the thing that you envied or wanted, you went and fucking manifested that shit. I don't know if it was on purpose, but Ah, I wouldn't be so surprised if it wasn't.
SPEAKER_01No, I mean Yeah, I guess that's probably true.
SPEAKER_02Um so that's one of your Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, that would be one of the things from a divorce standpoint that sticks out to me was I remember dad came and watched me play basketball like when I was in high school, like a freshman or sophomore, and I remember being really upset that he had to leave. So he just came for two games, you know, and it's like I have a full-on season, you missed all these other games. And it's like if you didn't play great in those games that he was there, right? Then it's like, man, you missed me last week when I put up 15 or 20 points or something, right? And so, yeah, I mean, I try not to miss a single game, and you know, that's probably the reason I ended up moving back out to California was because I wanted him to get some of that experience with me, right? And so um, you know, that definitely kind of full circles it in terms of him not being there.
SPEAKER_02And I'm probably more like dad in that I'm more selfish, or at least was like, look, I'm gonna come to most of them, but I I'm not I'm not making everybody come to all your games. Like I kind of took more of that, like, I have my own life. I'll get to him when I can, you know. Um, so maybe that's where I've had a little more for forgiveness for dad, is because I I see some of myself in him for sure.
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, I I I think everybody has selfishness in themselves to some degree, right? It's just I mean, I'm selfish.
SPEAKER_02I think everybody is it's human nature, right? I mean, that's how we survive.
SPEAKER_00Take care of yourself.
SPEAKER_02Put the oxygen mask on. Some of us just take it to an extreme. Some of us sit there and I'm hitting my oxygen.
What Childhood Felt Like for Dustin
SPEAKER_02If you had to describe what our childhood felt like, how would you put it into words?
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, we basically kind of took care of ourselves there for a while. I mean, when mom would go out, it'd be like Friday nights and we'd be alone. Um, you know, if you didn't leave or something to go run off with someone or something.
SPEAKER_02Well, I didn't. I mean, I I feel like, at least from my vantage, when I was I I felt like I was home watching you a lot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, you know, certainly up until I got into high school, and you were more, you know, then I wasn't required to stay home with you in middle school and stuff. But you know, I I had a lot of responsibility from a very young age, being responsible for a little kid.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02When I was a little kid. And, you know, like, of course, a lot through a lot of therapy and working through things, forgiveness for mom, understanding that she was just trying to provide for us and putting herself in night school, you know, so she would work a full-time job, then go to night school, I don't know how many days a week, and then always found a way to meet some different guys along the way. I mean, I do remember a lot of different men. Um in no shade to her, you know, she was looking for a partner, which makes a hundred percent sense to me. Um so, like I would describe my experience of childhood as kind of lonely or isolated.
SPEAKER_01Um but that's probably why you're so independent and can be by yourself. Whereas, you know, I think there's a lot of people that have to have people with them all the time. And you and I don't need that.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's taken me to get to my adulthood to be that way because in high school and early early adulthood, I always wanted to be around people. I was bored if I didn't have a gazillion people around and the party to go to.
SPEAKER_01Right. And now I'm like like overcompensating.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh. Um, and now I think I've finally come back to my balanced center where like I do need my alone time to recharge.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, I do a lot of giving, you know, whether it's through my classes that I teach or within friendships, I tend to be the person people call to talk them through things. I have a tendency to attract the wounded birds, as people like to call it, you know, that like are always in need.
SPEAKER_03So clearly, yeah.
SPEAKER_02There's something about me that enjoys helping others. That's I think probably what I've been put on this earth to
Dustin's Purpose on this Earth
SPEAKER_02do. What do you think you've been put here on this earth to do? Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01I mean, uh only what I can think of like what's in front of me right now, and that's my kids and my wife, and and making sure that, you know, I have a family that's uh, you know, gonna be able to be out on their own in the world at some point. And knowing that um, you know, we will support them no matter what, and you know, that's my primary focus right now. I don't know what I was meant to do, but I guess it's being a father.
SPEAKER_02See, and I a hundred percent think that that's that's what your purpose is is to shape these little humans to grow up to be badass adults.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's that's the goal. Um, you know, I want them, you know, even now I think about all the things that they get, and that's why I always tell you like, don't spoil them. Like those kids have everything they could possibly need. Like, just take them on experiences, like you know, do those things. They don't need material things, like um, that's where it's really challenging for me because it's like we give them so much, right? And um, I want them to know what it's like to not have everything that they could possibly want. And that's why I wanted us to do something for Christmas where it's like we're giving back. This is what this season's really about, anyway, right? And um, you know, I had them go help grandpa with his rotary thing, and they fed like 800 families in Clear Lake, and they were there helping hand out gifts to these kids that needed stuff. And it's like they need to see those sorts of things. Like we don't, not everybody has everything that they
Lindsay & Dustin Share Personal Stories
SPEAKER_01want all the time.
SPEAKER_02Well, we certainly were not brought up that way. And Scott and I definitely can lock horns on our approach to parenting. Uh, you know, I come from the, you know, I had to work if I wanted a car, I had to pay my insurance. I always had to have my own money to go and do things.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_02And Scott is from a completely other side where his parents, you know, he was their only child, the apple of their eye. They tried, they fought really hard to have him, you know. And they helped him get his first house. They helped him start this business. And and he was a hard worker, so it wasn't like, you know, I mean, he worked two jobs. Yeah, he didn't sit around playing video games. You know, he was responsible. But he he because of how they set him up, it set him up to to have a far easier time to succeed and save money. And so I'm seeing a little bit in how we're doing that with the kids and how it really does. You know, if you help them get the, you know, the car, then they can start putting money away so that then when this car goes out, they've got money set aside, you know, versus coming from behind and always being climbing out of a hole because you're broke, because you're struggling right out of college.
SPEAKER_01Like, so yeah, it's tough, it's a tough game to play.
SPEAKER_02Because because I didn't have that stuff makes me far more appreciative of it, I think, and understand how hard it is to get those things. And, you know, I'm not sure our kids fully get, you know, when they go into Whole Foods with me and they're like, well, take that and that and that, you know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I hate shopping with my kids because it's like they just want to throw everything in. And it's like, no, we're not getting that. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02I need these $13 marshmallows.
SPEAKER_01Like Lola last night wanted a soda, and I'm like, no, like you've been eating sweets this entire time. We're not having one tonight.
SPEAKER_00And then of course I gave it and opened a soda and I shared it with her, but you know, and of course she pouted right afterward.
SPEAKER_02She's such a little crab, but oh wow, I love how you compared, you know who she reminds me of? You and Jackie.
SPEAKER_01Oh, just her emotional roller coaster. I mean, she's just up and down, and I mean Taunt took her to school one day and her parents were in town and they were late. And what for whatever reason, she's just like her mother in that sense where Lola does not want to be late. Even though we've never been late to class once this year, so she started middle school this year. We've never been late once, but she freaked out because she thought she was gonna be late, and then I can't remember what happened. One time she didn't think she had the shoes for volleyball practice. She had shoes, they just weren't the ones that she wanted. And she, I mean, she's crying and hysterical. I'm like, calm down. This is why are we getting so crazy about this? And she'll have those episodes every once in a while.
SPEAKER_02So to me, what that sounds like is perfectionism.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Wanting everything to So where does that come from?
SPEAKER_01Well, and that's what we were trying to say, because it's like we want them to do well for themselves, right? We don't want them to think that we'll be mad at them if they don't do something. And we get that a lot from them. Like they feel like they're letting us down. And she, for whatever reason, and I don't know if it's because she's the oldest, like that reminds me of dad. Like, you know, he's the oldest. So much more is put on the older kid. And he'll relate to Lola a lot. Like he'll be like, Oh, I know exactly what she's what she's you know, feeling. And you know, I would say I probably am like, you know better, right? That's what I'll always throw at her, probably. And that might be what screws her up. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02But no, everything's just a trauma waiting to happen.
SPEAKER_01And that's what I always try. I'm like, take a step back and look at your life. You're freaking out about something so small, and that's why I always I always throw out, you know, children of Gaza. Think about the children of Gaza. Like when you think you have it tough, like somebody's got it much worse than you. And that's probably not the right thing to say either.
SPEAKER_02But minimizing their feelings exactly creates bigger feelings.
SPEAKER_01Ton's good about that. She'll she'll throw in you like, you know, we want you to have, you know, deal with your emotions the way you need to deal with it. Crying is fine and and whatnot, where I'm more like, stop it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, and I believe, I mean, I don't really consider myself a super emotional person anymore. I probably have outgrown some of that. I mean, it doesn't mean I don't feel things. Uh I get more annoyed. No one's saying that you're uh Yeah, I'm feeling attacked. That's mom. In some ways, when you have big emotions and you're sensitive, it can really honestly be kind of a superpower if you learn to channel it properly. Like she probably would be an amazing counselor, you know, like she's probably going to be that person that her friends turn to because she can empathize with them more than others, you know. Like it's learning what whatever you you have a tendency to kind of be like, you know, like with Caldery super analytical, and like, you know, like it kind of is showing you where your natural aptitude, you know. So we'll we'll see what what little Lola.
SPEAKER_01I know. I'll be very curious to see.
SPEAKER_02I know. I'm still holding my breath. I can't imagine where Ella will fully land, where called. I think I know Ava is gonna be a counselor. I could see that she's just very intuitive, you know, and she loves to listen to people's, you know, tell me. You know, I'm here. I want to understand.
SPEAKER_01Sounds like you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Ava and I have a very unique relationship. It is, and I think this is where because we had such an evil stepmom, she was, she was not a kind. We're talking about Mary. Yeah, we're talking about Mary. This is my dad's been married three times. I'll just let it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, let's just put that out there.
SPEAKER_02Although, you know, so have I.
SPEAKER_00So don't judge. I'm not judging.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, I think I've swung the other way. Like, because that was so awful. I mean, not only did we not get to see our dad very often, but then when we would see him, we had this beast who was so nasty and like cheap and chintzy and oh, you know, like I I what I all Always hold with me is that no matter what, I I could never get a gift purchased for me unless it was for an occasion. So we'd be in Marshalls and I'd be like, Oh, I need a pan. Well, we'll get it for you. That'll be your birthday present.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like, never just uh, you know, it's like, God damn, we don't live with you. Yeah, you're not paying the bill for me all the time. Like you can't.
SPEAKER_01Oh no, I'm sure she held that monthly child support check over us big time. Like, oh, well, we're giving them money.
SPEAKER_02I mean, and it wasn't much.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It really wasn't.
SPEAKER_01Not to survive with one parent.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I think that's why I've swore to myself I would never be that stepmom. Yeah. That I would love them like my own children. And I can genuinely say I do. I mean, I've helped raise her. She, you know, I known her since she was seven years old, you know, so younger. So sh every bit, and it just so happens that her mom isn't present in her life. And it's been such a cool opportunity because I missed such formative years with Ella. You know, she was gone from 14 to 17. So I didn't get to do the prom and I didn't get to help her get ready for all the things. And I it almost feels like a do-over because you know, Ava's mom isn't around or present for any of that. And so now I get to take on those responsibilities and you know, her yearbook ads and make sure her senior pictures are done and all those things I get to be a part of that I didn't I didn't get to with Ella. So I think it's definitely like a gift for me, you know, because that's a huge deal to have your mom in your life when you're a teen girl.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Yes, you're gonna lock horns. I mean, like mom and I were some of that was just because I would borrow her stuff and ruin it. Which kind of happens with Ava.
SPEAKER_01But well, you just made it up for it with the awesome belt you just got her.
SPEAKER_00Merry Christmas, Mom.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, don't say I never did anything for you. So
Stories & Teachings of Adulthood
SPEAKER_02when did you feel like you were stepping into adulthood? We spent a lot of time talking about childhood.
SPEAKER_01Oh boy, I don't know that I have yet, to be honest with you.
SPEAKER_02I know. Do you feel like like I feel that that when I was in the drive like line to pick the kids up? And I'm looking around at all these people and they seem and acted so old and mature.
SPEAKER_01And I'm like, I can't tell anybody's age now, like in my world.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01And I've come to find out I'm like the oldest of like a lot of people that are in our circle of parents in the school and things. I'm like, God dang, they look really old. And then I'm like, oh, I'm older than them, and it's like, holy crap. So I don't know. I mean, I think you know, for me, a a big reason why it took me so long to settle down was because of probably what we grew up with, and I didn't want to get into a relationship and then separate from my wife and get a divorce, right? So it took me a long time to make that push to to finally say, okay, I want to get married now, right? And um, you know, I probably one of the reasons I really love my wife is that she has that patience and waited that long um for me to kind of get my shit together. And so um, you know, I think probably getting married and then definitely having a child, you know, it just now it's not about just you and your, you know, your significant other. It's like you're caring for this other being, right?
SPEAKER_02Well, it's pretty cool with you guys because well, and I even remember getting on your ass, like, look, you know, shit or get off your ass. Yeah, like you she moved all the way up to the middle of nowhere for you.
SPEAKER_00My parents hate me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, took her away from her family. The least you can do is marry her. And you know, I fell on the other side, like, oh, I'll get married. I know I'll get divorced, it's no big deal. I mean, both my first two weddings, I cried because I was like, what am I doing? Now, I was pregnant, yeah. So, you know, and I felt a little bit of pressure, at least with my first marriage to get married from my parents, you know, like, well, you should try and do the right thing, even though I, you know, we were breaking up, like we were literally going to break up, and then this happened. So this happened, and then I got pregnant.
SPEAKER_01She's so cute though.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I don't know if even for me, parenthood made me feel like adulthood, because you know, I still struggled with drugs and alcohol into my adulthood, and so I think a lot of that made me uh obviously less engaged as a parent or less involved as a parent.
SPEAKER_01Or in a relationship, I guess, probably. Yeah right.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I met Joe in rehab. I should write a book.
SPEAKER_01No white trash, no happiness and white trash. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02I don't consider that trashy. I just consider it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, rehab you'd have to have money, right? Right. So, um, well, I mean, that's you've lived a story that no one can tell but yourself. Right. So um, you know, I think that's pretty remarkable.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think like all of those experiences, like I could sit and feel shame and guilt around the things that I've done in my past, but like, what what does that do for me in the present? What does that do? You know, I used to think that like if as long as I felt guilty and shameful, that it showed the people in my life that I was sorry. And all it was doing was keeping me stuck. And, you know, like the greatest apology is changed behavior, it's just doing things differently. And like I I can't look just like with dad, I can't do anything about my past, but I can certainly change who I am and do things differently moving forward. And I feel like I have done that, and that's why my kids have turned out as well as they have, despite like my best attempt to screw things up, because of my sense of unlovability or unworthiness, you know, it had nothing to do with them. Um but you know, back to how we talked about, you know, Ella got a different me and Calder got a different me, you know, and so I I've reconciled that with Ella, you know, that like because there were, you know, and she's grown up and she's she's got gotten into my conscious community where she's learning all about why she does the things she does. And like it's pretty awesome because like I don't come from when she comes to me with things that like have hurt her in the past or that have bothered her, I don't take it personally. I don't, you know, get defensive and like, well, I did that because of this, you know, or whatever, that I can fully hear her and truly look her in the eye and say, I'm sorry, you know, that that was never my intention.
SPEAKER_01Right. And you know, I think the more as parents you that you can be listen without defensiveness is yeah, I I've the the uh feedback I've gotten is like just listen, like just listen to your kids. They'll tell you everything if you just listen. Yeah. And don't get defensive. Don't well, what are you thinking? And you know, just listen. Yeah. Like they will tell you everything you need to hear. Um, and you know, that's your job as a especially a father of girls, I feel like, is just to listen. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, and that men, they want to fix that's your nature.
SPEAKER_01That's what we want to do. Yeah. And even my wife says that to me. I mean, Ton will say to me all the time, she's like, just listen to me, please.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I don't need a solution. Right. I just need to process something, and I just need you to listen. Shut up and listen. Yeah. Oh, believe me.
SPEAKER_01And we're Fultzes, so we like to talk, right? So that's another like she'll be like, Oh my God, you guys talk so much. And it's like, that's because we're all fighting for you know, air state. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, that was funny because I we went back to visit Scott's family, his mom's side, and I sat quietly and I left, and I said, God damn, your family talks a lot. I'm fucking worn out and I didn't even speak. Like they were all fighting for stories and who was gonna talk, and I'm just like, oh, I just need quiet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think that's what I was talking about trying to get like this game for us to play was stories. I remember the Fultz brothers and you know, grandpa telling those stories, like they would fight over each other to tell these stories. And in hindsight, I think half of it's bullshit. Like they they just added and embellished these stories so much, but they were great. I mean, I remember us sitting in their you know, grandma and grandpa's living room listening to those stories, and like we would all laugh, and grandma found out that the rifle went off and shot under Uncle Dave, and you know, she started crying like this happened.
What is Dustin's Legacy?
SPEAKER_02What do you think you want to be remembered for in this? Like, I I think I got know your answer, but like at the end of the day, when when you draw your last breath, like what do you want on your tombstone? What do you want to be known for?
SPEAKER_01I've seen um I just being a better person, probably. I I want to be that person that people want to talk to and maybe ask questions to um whether that's my family, whether that's friends. Like I've not been as close with my friends in in this trip uh that we took to that funeral, probably really engaged in me. Like you need to make it a point to to be more um there for your friends. Um, you know, and they've all got crazy lives going on too. But like it and you and me, like I feel like there's times where we should probably talk a lot more, right? And even though I know you don't like talking on the phone.
SPEAKER_02But like Oh, you don't either.
SPEAKER_01I'm not a big talker on the phone, no. But you know, we need to be better at that. And um, you know, I I think what being there for your friends and family and also being, you know, a confidant where they can, you know, tell their stories to you, that's kind of what I would like to be known as.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think you're doing a really great job at that.
Memories of Sibling Rivalries
SPEAKER_02And I, you know, I apologize for kicking your glasses in when you're a little boy. You just warned my patience.
SPEAKER_01Well, like I say, like I didn't need an older brother, I had an older sister. Right.
SPEAKER_02I was pretty tough.
SPEAKER_01She beat the shit out of me.
SPEAKER_02I did not let you be a pussy until you couldn't anymore. That is.
SPEAKER_01I still remember that day where you like hit me and I went and grabbed you and held you up against the wall. I said, do not hit me ever again, and that was it. Like I think you had seen.
SPEAKER_02I think Ella went through that. I I certainly know Ava did with Calder that like there's a point where you no longer have physical upper hand. You may have the mental. I mean, do you remember that Thanksgiving or some family thing? And it was you the three of us.
SPEAKER_01We were in Minnesota. I remember that. I can remember that story where you like were making fun of my teeth. Yes. Yes, so we were in Minnesota for Christmas.
SPEAKER_03Is that where it was?
SPEAKER_01And I think we had stayed at mom's old boyfriend's place, Mark Johnson. Remember, we stayed at like a house or a cabin of his or something? And we went to Olive Garden, of course, because that's where we go when it's a celebratory event. We go to Olive Garden. And I had said something about your face because you had pimples at the time, and you said, Well, at least my teeth don't go into tomorrow. And I was like, holy shit.
SPEAKER_00Like, I was like, I think mom even laughed. I think she busted out laughing.
SPEAKER_02And then your teeth were horrific.
SPEAKER_01But I remember like, oh my God, I can't even come back on that. Like, she just got me.
SPEAKER_00And mom yeah, mom started laughing, and then she's like, Lindsay, don't say that or something, you know, afterwards.
SPEAKER_02But oh, we had a blast. I mean, I really have a lot of I know more road trips, yeah, more road trips. More than anybody. It was you and me laughing and doing accents and just silliness. I mean, I had a great child. I mean, you were always one of my closest friends, though I probably never would admit to it at that age, but you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I I think it's proximity. We were around each other all the time and we watched the same movies. I mean, uh, you know, Ton was upset about me w letting them watch whatever it was last out Bridesmaids. And I'm like, I was watching Lethal Weapon when I was like eight years old. So don't tell me I turned out okay. All right, I don't want to kill anyone. Uh well, at least I won't say it in public, but you know, like I was watching shit I should not be watching, far younger, and it's not the end of the world.
SPEAKER_02So I know it's like do we want to sweat the small stuff?
SPEAKER_01Watching the sex scenes is a little uncomfortable, I will, I will say.
SPEAKER_02I still get weird when a sex scene comes on and Ava's sitting there, and I'm like, eh.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's that's a little much.
SPEAKER_02Get through
Outro
SPEAKER_02this. Well, I really want to thank you for coming on. I think we could probably sit here and talk for hours. I'm not sure anybody really cares about our stories, but we our mom and dad will like this.
SPEAKER_00I'm sure our our spouses.
SPEAKER_02Well, and I think not if nothing else, we'll have a memory. This will forever be out there on the the tube of you, right?
SPEAKER_01You know, well, maybe we should just have a regular check-in. We can have uh we could totally do that. What's going on in your world this week?
SPEAKER_02That's a great idea, honestly, because we can do Zoom calls.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I'd love to do it. I think it'd be fun.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. We'll just add one more thing to your plate. Anyway, I love you, brother. I wouldn't have wanted any other brother but you.
SPEAKER_01Well, right back at you. I love you, sis. And even though I hated you a lot of times, like I loved you.
SPEAKER_02I and I've I I know that, you know, but I hope that you forgot to.
SPEAKER_01You did as best you could raising this kid on your own. Without a husband to help you out.
SPEAKER_02Right, exactly. Oh, all right. Well thanks for having me.
