How Life Challenges Can Become Our Best Business Inspiration

Most of us think of life challenges as obstacles to creating a successful business.

What if instead your challenge became a springboard to creating something instead?

When she was diagnosed with a brain tumor, Cheyenne Dorsagno decided to use her experience to create an entirely new business so she could help others who are facing their death.

Cheyenne’s experience is a true hero’s journey and we had a wonderful, inspiring conversation.

Note: To connect with Cheyenne, email her outneighborhood23@gmail.com .

If you find the Marketing Root Work podcast valuable, please become a subscriber! 

My mission is to change the way small business owners market themselves and it’s very important to me that I reach as many people as possible.

Transcript

09.30.25 [MRW Podcast] Cheyenne Dorsagno
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[00:00:00] Judy Murdoch: Hello and thank you for listening to the Market Marketing Work podcast. I'm your host, Judy Murdoch, and today I am speaking with Cheyenne Orano. Cheyenne, please introduce yourself and say a little bit about what it is that you are wanting to create. 

[00:00:18] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Yes. So, as Judy said, my name is Cheyenne Orano.

[00:00:22] I am out of Utica, New York, and if you don't know, that's Central New York and my intention is to be a legacy ghost writer. So for a lot of people, that's probably a very foreign title and it's new for me too. I'm having fun with it, but. What I want to do is to help people confront their mortality, and I want to do that in a way that celebrates the life that they've lived and in a way that feels joyous.

[00:00:51] Right now that is taking shape in the form of obituaries and memoirs. So I really want to use my skill and gift of writing so that I can be a conduit for people to tell their story. And wrap their head around the fact that life is finite. And again, it's a very scary topic, but I wanna do it in a way that feels good for people.

[00:01:15] Judy Murdoch: I love that. Cheyenne, I'm really glad that you are doing this. This is really cool to me.

[00:01:20] So a question that comes up, you're quite young or somebody who is working in this area. What inspired you or, motivated you to be doing this?

[00:01:32] Cheyenne Dorsagno: That's a very fair question. I'm 29 years old and I know for a lot of people my age, they have this attitude of we're getting old, and I'm like, no, we're not. We're still very young. I'm 29 and truthfully, I've always been sort of a spooky person. I was one of those people I had like nightmare before Christmas posters in my room and stuff.

[00:01:53] So this isn't completely farfetched that I've ended up where I've ended up.

[00:01:57] Judy Murdoch: Like one say Adams. 

[00:01:58] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Yes, yes. I was one say Adams, one for Halloween. So yeah, you've got it.

[00:02:04] But what really propelled this was when I was 25. I was diagnosed with a cystic brain tumor. And, that of course was a very defining time in my life.

[00:02:17] It was in the height of the pandemic. It was in 2020. So death was on a lot of people's minds really. But it was happening to me in a unique way. And I remember, I don't know who said it, but there is a philosopher who said that people live two lives and the first life is before you realize you're gonna die.

[00:02:36] And the second life is after you realize you're gonna die. So I guess you can say my second life started in 2020 after I realized I had a brain tumor. And knock on wood, my health is at a good. State right now. But you know, going through that crazy experience, I really felt compelled to turn it into something positive.

[00:02:59] And when I first got out of the hospital, I went back to my night job and it just felt impossible. I felt impossible to go back to my normal life and act like nothing happened. So I was , all right, I just have to flip the script. I have to do something with this. So yeah, that experience is really what made me feel like I need to pursue this seriously.

[00:03:24] Judy Murdoch: Wow. Can you speak a little bit more to what the experience was like? I assume at the time of the diagnosis, you did not know whether or not. The tumor was malignant, is that correct? 

[00:03:40] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Well, there's a lot that could be said about the experience. When I first found out, we really knew nothing.

[00:03:46] We just knew there was something wrong, and that was the scariest part to know there's something wrong, but to not know what it is. And I'm a writer, so I am a melodramatic person. So when I found out I had a tumor, I pretty much went home and in my head, I was like saying my goodbyes, I was like, this is it for me, you know?

[00:04:06] And, it was very emotional to wrap my head around. But I mean, as it relates to where I'm at now, what was really tough about the experience was that I felt like I could not talk to anyone about it.

[00:04:20] Judy Murdoch: Why was that? 

[00:04:22] Cheyenne Dorsagno: It just makes people so uncomfortable. And, even people that have the social skills, like most people, they don't have the best of social skills.

[00:04:31] Um, but even the people that I thought had really good social skills, I just felt how uncomfortable everybody was talking to me about it. And, it was weird. I felt like nobody was looking at me like me anymore. You know what I mean? 

[00:04:47] Judy Murdoch: Yeah. 

[00:04:47] Cheyenne Dorsagno: And, everybody sort of tiptoeing around you. So my then boyfriend, he handled the news very terribly and, I think he felt a lot of pressure to support me and he kind of lashed out in anger.

[00:05:01] When I was going through this and my father at that time, and my father has always been phenomenal. He's always been the talker. Let's sit down and have a conversation. So I consider him to be a very emotionally intelligent person. But of course I'm his daughter. He had a really hard time talking about it, and it was really hard for him.

[00:05:21] And I just was like, all right, I don't know who to talk to about this, but I felt like I had to talk to people and I'll take some accountability for the fact that, maybe I was having a social pac, I was bringing it up to people who, I didn't know very well and I just wanted to talk to them, and I felt that I was making them very uncomfortable.

[00:05:44] And I was like, okay, I can't talk to people I know, I can't talk to people. I don't know. And I just got to this point where , I felt embarrassed, but then I felt really mad. I felt angry about it because I was like, well, I need to talk to someone about this, you know, it was driving me crazy.

[00:06:03] So I got to this point where I was like, all right, and my background is in journalism. And what I've learned is if people aren't talking about something, that's probably what we really should be talking about. So I wanted to take the lead on that and I'm like, all right, it's gonna be uncomfortable, but I'm gonna keep pushing and I'm gonna try and create a space for people to have this conversation.

[00:06:27] Judy Murdoch: I am really a little bit surprised that the hospital didn't provide counseling or something. 

[00:06:37] Cheyenne Dorsagno: You know what I will say is that there probably was counseling, but I wasn't aware of it. So yeah, no, that opportunity didn't come up for me. And I did have people visiting me at the hospital a lot, so maybe they didn't realize that I was struggling because I had that form of support.

[00:06:57] And for a long time, yeah. I didn't realize that there was that kind of support at the hospital. And since I've left my local hospital, they even have a spiritual care center. And that was news to me. I was talking to other people about it. I was like, have you heard about this? Like you can go and pray in the hospital.

[00:07:15] And they were like, yeah. I was like, oh gosh, I had no clue. So yeah, it's probably just, a lack of awareness. 

[00:07:22] Judy Murdoch: Wow. A big reason I wanted to talk to you, is for whatever reason, I too find death to be one of these things that like, if you're human, you're gonna die.

[00:07:37] That's just kinda there. You can't argue with that. You know, it's gonna happen. And I am considerably older than you are, and I have, thought a lot about my death and I have worked with, people who practice, ancestral lineage healing . Many different cultures have, ancestral communication and reverence, rituals.

[00:08:05] I'm Jewish. I don't know, I don't think there's anything in mainstream Judaism with that, but it has troubled me because it is such an important passage. It is the last passage that we will experience as human beings living on planet Earth and through my own communications with dead people, with guides.

[00:08:36] They, have helped me feel a lot more reassured that for one thing, it's not the end of consciousness, although it may very well be the end of your unique identity as a human being here on Earth. But that there are other existences after this one. But it did make me think about how in our culture we do not talk about death, which was your experience.

[00:09:07] You couldn't find people to simply have a compassionate conversation with where people were just really listening and focused on, just focused on you and focused on just offering compassion and kindness to where you were.

[00:09:25] Because, 200 years ago before antibiotics, a lot of people died. A lot of people died young.

[00:09:33] A lot of children died. I would say even at the time of when my parents were alive, so in the 1930s, I know my dad told me he nearly died from appendicitis. So that time is not that far away, but we've really forgotten it.

[00:09:52] We have serious cultural amnesia about death and dying. 

[00:09:57] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:59] Judy Murdoch: I just feel that there is such a need in our culture to look at it and normalize it as this is a human experience, just like many other human experiences. And I feel sad that there is not more support, certainly for people.

[00:10:22] I'm just thinking about seniors, my father-in-law passed this year, and he lived to a wonderful, age of 94. Again, it just feels like a time where we should be getting a lot of constructive support and not just ignore it until we can't ignore it.

[00:10:42] Cheyenne Dorsagno: There is so much for me to address in what you've said. First I wanna say I think it's really phenomenal that you are on your own journey of confronting and processing this. And I love your attitude about it because you have a very light presence in the room.

[00:10:59] I interviewed, a mortician once. And she was a very friendly, beautiful woman. And she said something along the lines of, I'm not a scary person. A lot of people think like I'm gonna be this gaunt, pale person in a corner and I'm just a normal person.

[00:11:17] So I totally understand the compulsion to just ignore death just put it off into the closet and not think about it, and it's like, I'll deal with it when it happens. I get that a thousand percent, but I think it's one of those things where, it adds value to your life by talking about it.

[00:11:34] I think about my dad, because my dad is someone, he likes to watch sad movies. He always says I love a good tear jerker, and it's sweet, but I never was that person. Like, I don't wanna watch a sad movie. Why would I do that when I could watch a movie? Not necessarily a happy movie, right?

[00:11:50] But even a scary movie. Just anything else. 

[00:11:52] Judy Murdoch: Yeah. 

[00:11:53] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Why would I wanna cry? But I totally get it. Um, when you have that moment where you can face your sadness, the happy times, there's so much happier for having seen that. And the point that you make about people being so far removed from death, I think is very interesting because after I started researching this more, I was reading about, back in the day, first of all, embalming was not a thing.

[00:12:26] Judy Murdoch: Really? I did not know that. 

[00:12:27] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Embalming really still isn't a thing in a lot of countries. In the US it's very, very common, but other countries, they don't really do that. There isn't that, intention of preservation and I think the intention of preservation came from wars and, people would die far away.

[00:12:45] And you would wanna bring someone home. Give the family that opportunity to see their loved one as they were for the last time, and now it's just become this standard.

[00:12:56] And back in the day, death was very commonplace, like you've said, and it was very common for people to take care of their loved ones in their final days.

[00:13:05] And of course that's very difficult and some people still do it, but it's much less common now. Now it's more common for someone to pass away. In a hospital, in an institutional setting. And there are pros and cons to that. So I'm not gonna say what's right or wrong. People can make that decision for themselves.

[00:13:24] But it's just very interesting that. It's become so far removed. , It's like we have no clue how to process this anymore.

[00:13:33] It is something where like I wanna run down the street and scream at people and I'm, you're gonna die know. And it's, I know that would be really freaky, but I think that it's something that people need to think about and I think they'll be better off for it,

[00:13:49] Judy Murdoch: I think, classical Roman times. When a general came, entered the city, and had a triumph, right? So he was victorious and he comes in and the whole idea is to celebrate the general and celebrate the soldiers. They call it a triumph.

[00:14:06] One of the things that they do, which I thought was, this is like such a cool, Roman Republic kind of a tradition, is they would have a slave walk next to the general saying over and over again, memento Maori. Memento Maori. Remember, you also will die. And I thought. Ah, those Romans, they, they got some stuff just like, yeah.

[00:14:32] They, they were very wise and had some really, really interesting traditions.

[00:14:36] So have you visited, people who are in hospice or done anything like that? 

[00:14:46] Cheyenne Dorsagno: I haven't yet.

[00:14:47] I did meet with my local hospice and I was trying to coordinate some sort of volunteership, because what I want to do is capture people's stories, and by the time that someone gets to hospice, the end is very near, so they might not be in a position. To share their life story. It can be kind of a laborious process

[00:15:10] honestly. I understand why it's hard to recruit people to do it. 'cause it is a big responsibility. It's a lot of emotional labor to go through your life story. 

[00:15:18] Judy Murdoch: Do you think that their, their children, friends, people like that would be like, would like to be, would like to talk to you?

[00:15:27] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Yeah. Yeah. And I foresee that would probably be the main person that I would be talking to. It's very interesting to me because we do live in, a selfie culture, you know, it's 2025. Everybody feels like we're also full of ourselves. 

[00:15:42] But my experience has been that people feel very uncomfortable talking about themselves and they don't see the value in talking about their life. So it oftentimes is friends and family that are encouraging people and saying, we want to know more about you. We want to remember you after you've passed.

[00:16:04] So I do think that is going to be the motivator for a lot of people is not in a narcissistic way of, I want to write down my story and preserve it forever. I think it is going to be that. And her personal motivation of my friends and family are gonna wanna remember me after I've passed, so I need to leave this behind for them. 

[00:16:23] Judy Murdoch: It makes me think too about grief and how we experience grief and, grief is a really intense thing.

[00:16:32] Nothing brings up grief, like losing a loved one or having to face the end of your life 

[00:16:38] As I hear that, I think wow, that's all the people that you are speaking to. You never really know where they're gonna be at.

[00:16:46] Will they, will they be in a space of I really wanna honor this person and talking to you would feel really good.

[00:16:53] Like it would feel like it would help me with my grief. Or whether they're in that grief space where they're just I can't talk right now because this is just so heavy for me. 

[00:17:02] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Yeah. That's why I encourage people to be proactive about it. And don't get me wrong, I can be one of those people that pushes things off to the last minute.

[00:17:11] But I do think that this is one of those things where if you're proactive, it will make inevitable so much easier when it happens to have everything yes planned out, and to feel like you have that support already in place. And honestly, losing a loved one. It is the hardest thing I can imagine.

[00:17:31] Now again, I'm only 29. There have been people who have passed in my family, but it's been more, more so extended family

[00:17:40] Judy Murdoch: right. 

[00:17:41] Cheyenne Dorsagno: But when I was having my health crisis, the number one thing that would bring me solace is I would rather be me. You know? I'd rather be me first than having to see anyone else go through it.

[00:17:53] Judy Murdoch: Oh yeah. 

[00:17:54] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Yeah. That was the most optimistic thing I could tell myself. So I do think that we can have that humility of it's not gonna be a big deal when I pass away, but you have to think about from the perspective of the people around you. That's right. It's going,

[00:18:09] Even if you don't feel good about yourself, people love you anyway. It doesn't matter, if you're not proud of the person you've been in your life, there's still time number one to straighten out those relationships and to give people the opportunity to look back positively on the relationship that you guys had together.

[00:18:29] And even if it's a complicated relationship, people are going to hurt when you're gone. And I think that can be hard for people to believe, but it's definitely true. 

[00:18:40] Judy Murdoch: Oh, I know. I knew somebody. I did not know this person well, but. They had a disease. It was probably cancer and it had greatly changed their quality of life. I think their, their partner was taking care of them, but they ended up committing suicide. And what that brought to mind for me was how when people commit suicide, I think often they feel they are a burden.

[00:19:17] They feel that the world would be better off without them.

[00:19:21] Those are real thoughts and feelings people have. What they don't take into account, as you just said, is that actually there are many people who love them and many people for whom their presence in this world is really important.

[00:19:42] So I don't want to say I am against suicide because I think it is such a complex topic in on itself, but I do understand how we often do not think or perhaps allow us ourselves to really feel and understand how we affect other people.

[00:20:05] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:07] Judy Murdoch: And I know that when my dad died his last year was so difficult. He was constantly in and out of the hospital.

[00:20:15] When he did finally pass, in a lot of ways I felt relieved because I knew how unhappy he was. And I just felt like, well, now he's free. Now he gets to be with his ancestors. He can be happy again because he's no longer attached to his physical failing body. But I will tell you that I miss my dad on a daily basis because I had a relationship with my dad, like you do with your dad in that I like to just hang out with my dad and talk.

[00:20:46] And it didn't have to be anything profound. Sometimes we just, shoot the shit you know . you can never hang out with that person again. 

[00:20:54] Cheyenne Dorsagno: You brought up something that I probably haven't meditated on enough and that's that suicidality and like you've said.

[00:21:01] Yeah, it's a very complex topic because we all know life can be really hard sometimes. Yes. And I don't think it's a sin to sometimes see the relief in passing on. Um, and that is probably why a lot of people, they don't. They don't think about preparing for grief more and the grief that's gonna come after, because maybe in a way they do look forward to it.

[00:21:30] And I do understand that. And in a weird way, I, I don't wanna say I look forward to passing, but I do have an immense curiosity for what's gonna happen. 

[00:21:42] Judy Murdoch: That's so cool. 

[00:21:44] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's the great mystery. So, I, I love living. I'm gonna stick it out as long as I can, but I would like to think that when my time comes, there will be a little bit.

[00:21:57] I don't know. I wanna feel prepared. I wanna have a bit of excitement of like, I'm gonna find out the big secret. You know, I wish I could share it with everybody, but same, by then I'll be too far gone. , But yeah, there is, there's a lot that we don't know about.

[00:22:14] In a way I am looking forward to it. I do personally believe also that there's more. And, I do tell myself sometimes, even if there isn't more, and this is it, that would be okay with me. 'cause life for me, I love living and I'm very fortunate that I've always found joy in living. Even at my worst, I was like, I still would rather be here than be dead

[00:22:36] When my time does come, I would like to welcome it gracefully with open arms, and it's going to be a long journey to get that mindset in place, but I'm working on it all the time. 

[00:22:51] Judy Murdoch: Yeah, well, you're probably one of the few.

[00:22:54] What I was gonna talk about actually was there's also, there are places where they take dead human bodies and they put them out in the elements and they observe the body's decay. 

[00:23:09] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:11] Judy Murdoch: Most of these are scientific facilities. So people are doing these observations for science. But what was really interesting to me was I learned that the majority of people who work at these places are women. And they really fascinated me because I thought sometimes we look at women as well, they can't handle the this kind of thing, our sensibilities are too delicate and I thought it was so interesting and in some ways so appropriate that women tend to staff these places. 

[00:23:50] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Honestly, it's interesting that you say that because when I think about death there's so much emotional baggage to it.

[00:23:58] Judy Murdoch: Yes. 

[00:23:58] Cheyenne Dorsagno: And for women, the roles we play in, so society are largely social roles and it is. A form of social intelligence to be able to handle that kind of grief. So it makes perfect sense to me that women are leading this. 

[00:24:13] Judy Murdoch: Yeah. It to me as well because in most cultures when somebody dies, the women are the ones who prepare the body for burial.

[00:24:21] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:22] Judy Murdoch: You know, they wash the body. Um, I, maybe they dress the body in, in something ceremonial, but they prepare the body. 

[00:24:30] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense to me. And what's also really interesting to me is when you think about when you're passing, um, it is an opportunity to kind of have that last gift to humanity.

[00:24:43] You think about, you can be an organ donor. 

[00:24:46] Judy Murdoch: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:46] Cheyenne Dorsagno: You have an estate plan, you might have a house or whatever, belongings, and you think about, okay, well, who's gonna get what? And that is your last opportunity to really make a difference. And you do have things to give to people. So I hope people can see the value in themselves.

[00:25:06] And, um, that's not, I'm not an estate planner or anything like that, but part of what I want to do is to educate people on the resources that are out there. So I do wanna encourage people, even if it is just estate planning, I want to encourage people to confront their death in their own way. Even if that is by meeting with an estate planner and talking about what would be my, my last will of testament.

[00:25:33] Judy Murdoch: One of the teachers, that teaches, ancestral reverence and ancestor Lineage Healing actually said that one of the best things we can do, in a lot of ways, like make, kind of like making our life complete, which includes things like estate planning and, just kind of like taking care of those details.

[00:25:52] So that when we leave the world, we're minimizing the baggage that we leave other people with. 

[00:25:59] Cheyenne Dorsagno: That's, that's a good point. It is a lot. It's a lot to consider and when someone passes away, and I've yet to be in this position, but I know that your close loved ones, they come to your house and they have to go through all of your things.

[00:26:15] Judy Murdoch: Yes. Yeah, that too. 

[00:26:17] Cheyenne Dorsagno: It's already so hard. Yeah, it's already so hard to lose someone, but then it's like well now I have to plan a party. The funeral, I don't know what else to call it, but it's okay, now I have to plan an event and I have to do a guest list, and I have to go to a funeral and have this very emotional conversation.

[00:26:38] And I remember when my grandmother passed away, and I read her obituary. I remember feeling very disappointed because I just felt like this doesn't capture who she is in my opinion. So that's part of the reason why I've become passionate about writing obituaries is because. It's such a beautiful testament to someone's life and 

[00:27:02] Judy Murdoch: yeah, 

[00:27:03] Cheyenne Dorsagno: it's, it's pretty daunting.

[00:27:05] It's like, okay, we have one page. How do we sum up someone's life in a page? Um, but it is such an emotional process, and I think about. Being in that emotional state and someone coming to me and being like, all right, well how do you sum up the love you have for someone right now in this one hour conversation?

[00:27:26] We're gonna have whatever it is in one page. 

[00:27:29] Yeah. How do you summarize the A person's life, right? 

[00:27:31] Yeah. And there's so much to be said, and I do think it's gonna take a long time to really reflect on it, and it's a gratitude exercise. You know, if you do pre-planning. Then you can really appreciate your loved ones more while you still have them.

[00:27:48] Yeah. Because you've done exercise of reflecting on how much they mean to you. 

[00:27:52] Judy Murdoch: Agreed. There were two things you, you were talking about and when you were talking about having to go through a person's belongings after they passed. So that it reminded me of a story. Um, a few years ago. I was, I was hanging out with somebody and we were having coffee together and, it was a neighborhood we weren't really familiar with.

[00:28:13] So we, we thought Hey, let's, let's walk around the neighborhood a little bit and see what's going on. And it turned out that one of the houses. They were having, they called it an estate sale, but basically it was to sell what was in the house because the man who lived there had passed away.

[00:28:35] And what was really interesting was that I think maybe his niece and nephew were the ones who were at the house. They were sitting at the kitchen table and they just said oh, just look around. If there's anything just let us know. And what struck me was that this man, from what I could see, had lived a very full life.

[00:28:56] He had a full like scuba diving suit in his closet. It was really clear that he had a lot of passions. He had a lot of interests. He was a person who lived a very, very full life and for some reason, it just made me really think a lot about, it felt like there was some sort of a discrepancy or a disconnect for me.

[00:29:21] This was a person who, had lived a very rich and full life and now they were just kind of selling his stuff. 

[00:29:29] And I thought to myself, I don't want people to have to sell my stuff. 

[00:29:34] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:34] Judy Murdoch: Like, I, I kind of wanna go with as little as possible because it seems like somehow that's a courtesy or a kindness to your survivors.

[00:29:45] And the other thing that came up for me as you were speaking was this thing around logistics that when we die. And we have, let's say we do, we have a gathering, we have an event, some sort of a memorial for the person. I'm reading a book called The Art of Gathering, and one of the things the author talks about is if we don't think about what the larger purpose is for a gathering.

[00:30:12] We have a tendency as human beings, we just get caught up in the logistics of it. We get caught up in the, where will it be? How many people do we invite? How do we get out the invitations? How do we let people know, and what food do we need to order?

[00:30:25] Rather than to really think about why are we here and and what do we wanna get out of it. 

[00:30:31] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Yeah. Yeah. If you get the logistics done, then you can actually have that emotional experience and really think about what this means to you that you're going through this stage of life. Because if you don't sort it out, it's going to, it's gonna pop up one way or another.

[00:30:50] You know it's gonna linger. So it's very important to confront all of those difficult feelings.

[00:30:56] When you're talking about all of the stuff that you have, I also gravitate towards minimalism because of that. And it's making me think of, you've probably heard of Swedish Death Cleaning. 

[00:31:08] Judy Murdoch: I have, yeah. . 

[00:31:09] Cheyenne Dorsagno: And I don't totally remember the philosophy of it.

[00:31:13] Judy Murdoch: I don't, but I do think there is something in there around when you die there's a sense of completion. It's a way to do the cleaning and what do we do with these things in a way that does feel meaningful. 

[00:31:24] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Yeah. It makes you and helps you with grief.

[00:31:27] Judy Murdoch: The other thing that happens when people die is it can really bring out some of the conflicts in the family in terms of who gets what.

[00:31:37] And for that reason, that's another good reason to make those decisions. Let people know why you're making those decisions so you don't leave it up to the family members to squabble about, you know, who's gonna get what.

[00:31:52] Cheyenne Dorsagno: So if you can sort of mediate those difficult conversations for your family members it could really save a lot of tension.

[00:32:02] Judy Murdoch: Wow. This is probably one of the most interesting conversations I've had on marketing root work. Cause this just gets at the heart of what it is to be human, doesn't it

[00:32:12] Cheyenne, what kinds of people, resources, et cetera, if somebody's listening and they just happen to know somebody what would really help? Like what would you love to connect with? 

[00:32:26] Cheyenne Dorsagno: I would love to connect with anyone that just has a similar calling to me.

[00:32:32] Of, I feel like we need to talk about this and I was reflecting on it recently. And I was writing down lists of professions of people who I would love to connect with like, historians, archivists, estate planners. 

[00:32:45] I was like, okay, well what unites all of these people?

[00:32:47] And I came up with meeting maker. They want to find the meaning of life.

[00:32:53] And there's so many ways that people try and find meaning in life and explore life's purpose.

[00:33:00] Like a historian, for example, someone that looks in the past. I think oftentimes people look in the past 'cause they wanna understand the present, they want to see the template for the future. I would say that my people are the meaning makers and I would love to connect to more people like that.

[00:33:17] Judy Murdoch: That's a great answer.

[00:33:18] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Yeah. I think with the sentimental stuff, it can feel very like goofy and embarrassing.

[00:33:23] I'm very self-aware of that. Um, corny is probably the word I'm looking for. Like, you feel a little bit corny, you know, but I think that we can find a way to talk about it genuinely and authentically. It's important. We have to be brave. We have to be willing to be corny.

[00:33:41] Judy Murdoch: I love this Cheyenne. Aw. I think you are very brave. 

[00:33:45] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Thank you. You too. 

[00:33:47] Judy Murdoch: Thank you. So thank you so much for spending time with me. This was really fun unexpectedly fun. 

[00:33:54] Cheyenne Dorsagno: And thank you. 'cause I don't, I don't get enough opportunities to dish on this, so I appreciate you so much.

[00:34:00] Um, for some reason, you know, we got linked up and I guess we saw in each other that we both. Had this pining to have these kinds of conversations. Yeah. So agreed. It's really such a gift that we can talk to each other and air it out and, um, we spoke previously, one of my intentions and us having this conversation is me putting myself out there.

[00:34:24] So that I can find the other weirdos that wanna have this, this conversation. 

[00:34:29] Judy Murdoch: Yes. So 

[00:34:30] Cheyenne Dorsagno: those people that are struggling to talk about this, I just want them to know that I'm looking for you and, um, maybe you're doing it in a different way than me, but we can collaborate and we can figure out a way to make meaning out of these difficult things.

[00:34:46] Judy Murdoch: Amen. My sister, thank you again. 

[00:34:49] Cheyenne Dorsagno: Yeah, thank you so much.