Episode 9: The Yamas & Niyamas, Yoga's code of conduct

In this episode, we explain what yoga really means and discuss the first and second limbs of yoga - the Yamas & Niyamas. 

We explore how to live both with truth and kindness, discipline and trusting the universe, hard work and contentment. And, we explain why some of these principals will be harder or easier to navigate depending on our birth chart. 

A deeper understanding of these topics helps us evolve and learn the lessons we are here to master in this lifetime. 

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You can check out our respective websites and social media here:

Becky:

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www.therosealmanac.com

Laura:

www.soulsanctuarystudios.com

www.lauraclaytonwellness.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to North Note, the Yoga and Astrology podcast. I'm Becky, a yoga teacher, astrologist, and businesswoman.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

And I'm Laura, founder of Soul Sanctuary Studios, Yoga Teacher Trainer and Wellness Coach and Consultant. In this podcast, we'll be diving into down-to-earth deep soul conversations.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

We'll explore how you can connect and stay on purpose with your true North Alignment through the transformative lenses of yoga and astrology.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Each episode is designed to inspire and guide you on your own journey towards self-discovery, self-love, and personal growth. We'd really appreciate it if you could leave us a five-star review at your preferred podcast platform. Your support will help us reach more listeners who are looking for insightful discussions and meaningful connections.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Thanks so much for joining us. Now, let's dive in to today's episode. And we are talking today about the big topic of the yamas and the niyamas. And I feel like a really good place to start with this topic is to kind of put it in context within the eight limbs of yoga. So Laura, maybe that's something that you want to start with.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Yeah, totally. Um so you know, we talk about yoga very loosely in the kind of Western world, and we have spoken about it on previous episodes, but especially for this one, I think it's really important to actually define that again and just be really clear about what it means and then where this topic that we're talking about today sits. So, very top line, just to kind of place it, we're talking about the eight limbs of yoga at the moment. So, this is the idea that the word yoga actually means yoga, so it means a coming together, a connection or union, if you like. And um, Patanjali basically codified a practice to help us reach enlightenment or summandee bliss, if you like. Okay, and so he came up with this eight-limbed path that they call it, or these eight steps to reach enlightenment. And they say that Patanjali liked lists and orders. Good man, I like that too, and that the order that he wrote these in was actually the order of importance. And again, when we're teaching 200 hour, it's very like textbook. This is what this means, and then as you get deeper into study, a bit like when you go to university, you really you can start to kind of critique and wrestle with this a little bit. So there's always gonna be counter-arguments to that, but let's just keep this really simple for now. So let's say that there's eight steps to enlightenment and that they are in order of importance. So, interestingly, although we think of yoga as in yoga poses, sometimes as simple as a stretch class, um, we realise that number one on the list of this uh path to enlightenment, step one, is yama, and yama is actually meaning um restraints, so the things that we're trying to avoid, okay. Um, and then number two is niyama, which directly translates to observances, in other words, the things that we're trying to move towards. So, when today we're talking about the yamas and the niyamas, that's what we're talking about, these first two limbs of yoga, i.e., the two most important steps on that eightfoldfold path. Um, and within those, so within the yamas and the niyamas, there's five of each. So that's what we're going to talk about this evening. So essentially, it's kind of ten uh definitions and then the discussions around those. And these are really people say, like codes of conduct, you know, these are really our morals. In essence, this is the way that we can live yoga, it's a way of living and a way of being, and it includes, you know, psychology, but just kind of daily practices, thought processes, how we interact with other people, it's the code of conduct of the practice. So, really important, more important, especially in Patanjali's list, definitely than the poses, asana, which is number three. So, if number one is yama, number two is niyama, so yamas are things we do, two the things we try not to do, three then are the yoga poses, the asana. And interestingly, if you remember la asana, people think means yoga pose, it means seed, it's a seat for meditation. So it was still about mental refinement, and it was just that we could start to use different seats to get some uh byproducts like you know, detoxing and lengthening muscles and things like that, but it was actually all about meditation, so it's still all focused on the mind, the body was the byproduct, which is a really long way from where we are now when we say the word yoga, and people just think stretch class, right? So just keeping really aware that this is a mental practice, first about ways of being, and then for meditation, number three, in the asana in the seat, and then the final four to eight are really about moving into that meditative state, so still about the mind. You've got pranayama, number four, and that is breath control or prana meaning energy, so it's energy control, really. But we know that you know breath is our life force, breath is the energy, so it's breathing techniques, and then you have pratiyahara, number five, which is sense withdrawal. So these are these kind of stages of meditation, really. So turning the attention inwards is the sense withdrawal. Number six, dharana being concentration. So imagine that when you do meditation, you've kind of closed your eyes, so you've turned your attention inwards, and then you've focused on one thing, so that being your dharana, your focus, the concentration, and then dhyana meditation, so is that kind of observation of thought. So you spend long enough in dharana in one-pointed focus to then experience dhyana, so this meditative state, and then finally, number eight, samadhi enlightenment. So we're not expecting you to try and kind of get that and be like, okay, great, you know, 10 minutes in, I now understand the eight limbs of yoga. But what it does do, hopefully, is basically place the importance of the subject that we're talking about today, so the yamas and the niyamas, which are those first two limbs, um, the most important practices really of yoga on the path to enlightenment. So hopefully that places it back. Do you think that do you think that's clear enough?

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah, I think it places it, and I think it shows how so much of yoga is off the mat, not on the mat. You know, it's how we live our life because these are guidelines and principles that, of course, we apply to uh physical yoga practice, but so much wider than that, as I'm sure we're gonna talk about, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

And it was really interesting, like doing some reading around this for this topic this week. And one of the top one of the the topics that we'll talk about in terms of the namas, the yamas, and the niyamas was this tapas. So we'll get to it, but like discipline, austerity. And one of the quotes that I was reading about was basically saying, if you are an ass and a junkie, so if you are a physical practitioner junkie, your practice is to stop practicing the physical practice because that is not what it's about, and you know, that really hit home because I was just like that is so true, and so often, especially running 200-hour trainings, you know, I get so many people saying to me, like, Oh, I just feel like you know, a fraud because I'm not practicing enough, because I've got babies and I care for people, and I've got a job, and I've got this, and I've got that. And I'm like, Yeah, okay, a part of the practice, one-eighth literally, is about doing a yoga pose, but you can still be practicing yoga more so just in your way of being and your conduct in your moral compass on a daily basis. You know, you don't have to be doing a downward-facing dog to make you an authentic yogi if that's what you're looking for. So, yeah, I agree. I think it just really hammers home that point that we try and teach all the time, but I think this makes it, yeah, a lot more kind of tangible, I hope.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Shall we dive into the yamas?

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yes, let's do it. Um, okay, so let's start with the yamas. The first one on the list is Ahimsa. So if you think, as we said, Panjali wrote this in order of importance. So yamas being the most important, and the top of that list being ahimsa, which directly translates as non-violence or more commonly known as non-harm. Now, with all of these, it's really important, I think, to say that on the outset you can kind of look at them and go, yeah, non-harm, truthfulness, not stealing. Like, I think I do all of that, I'm pretty good, like nailed it. And that's fine as a kind of beginner, because at least you've understood the concept and you're having a go. But I think what happens later, at least this has been my experience, is that you'll start to really wrestle with them if you're really engaged with them. So we're not just saying non-violence, like, obviously, we're not gonna go around like knocking people about, you know, that's not what we're talking about. It all of these are a lot more subtle and working on deeper layers, and that's when you're really gonna start to kind of evolve, I would say, and transform. So, for non-harm, um for me it's quite simple in the sense that it's self and others, right? So, it's about how are we being harmful or not harmful to ourselves, and how are we doing that to others? And you know, I think starting with self, a lot of this is about self-talk. So becoming really aware of the inner dialogue, and when you're practicing these, and and these are a practice, right? I think it's really important to say that just as we practice yoga, we do need to practice all of these things. Um, that you know, we're practicing being aware of the self-talk of the inner dialogue, and noticing if we are being hypercritical of ourselves, if we are baroting ourselves in our way, if we are judging or comparing ourselves, and you know, practicing kindness to ourselves and trying to relieve that. The joy of that is not only that you are not constantly whipping yourself, so your self-esteem is naturally going to improve. The best thing is that I think you become more stable in yourself, and because you're less critical and because you're more forgiving of yourself, then just almost automatically I feel, or has been my experience, that you begin to be less critical of others. Yeah. So for me, when like we've spoken about before, I think in the previous episode, like you know, I was brought up with hyper-critical parents, I think a lot of people probably were. Um, and now I sometimes can hear that really hyper-critical voice projecting at other people, namely Adam. Um, and I have to catch that, and I have to say to myself, and realize most of the time the reason I'm giving him such a hard time is because I give myself such a hard time. And the answer to actually stop giving him a hard time, apart from stop doing it, is stop giving yourself such a hard time. And then when you're more forgiving and accepting of yourself, of course, you become more forgiving and accepting other people. I don't think you can stop or start being more forgiving of people if you haven't done it for yourself. So, all of this really, I think, and later we'll talk about Svarisaya, which is this self-study, really, it all comes down to that, you know, focus on yourself, healing yourself, and then the rest will come. I don't, I don't really think you can do it any other way, at least not for the long term, you know.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Hmm. And I think like you've gone straight in for yeah, like the self-talk and things like that. And I know for me, when I first started practicing yoga and the teacher, actually, I think one of the first classes I went to was themed around Ahimsa. And I think when you first meet that theme on the mat, you realise like your relationship with your body, you know, you can get frustrated trying to get into a pose, and maybe you know, you could injure yourself by forcing a pose, something like that, and I think it shows up quite literally on the mat in that way, and then as you realize that you're you're forcing yourself to get into a particular pose or something like that, then you realise ah, and that's when that critical voice kicks in, you know, that inner critic that's telling you you're not good enough because you can't do this pose or you can't do the full expression, whatever that is, of this pose. And for me, it was like just a massive light bulb moment, and I think a lot of people, when they're new to yoga, if they've got a good yoga teacher, not just an instructor taking them through a stretch class, they will meet that in their practice.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Yeah, yeah, and it's that you know, it's hopefully I think the best thing that you can do as a yoga teacher is ask questions about what they're doing on the mat and whether they're doing that off the mat. And I think the minute, you know, that was certainly my experience, like in that first yoga class I went to when I was burnt out from corporate, and the qu the teacher was asking the question, like, how would it feel to try easy? How would it feel to take the easy option? You know, how would it feel to be kinder to yourself? Where else do you need to be kinder to yourself in your life? And it was just these like dung dung dung, these like and she didn't need to say the word ahimsa because it wouldn't have landed, it wouldn't have meant anything to me. And I think that's the gift of teaching is you have this understanding, you have this knowledge, you can even have the terminology, but to be able to colloquially colloquially use that word, to be able to, you know, describe it in a way that's like layman's terms and grounded and really accessible is what it's all about. So that these quite lofty, you know, ideas and concepts, especially when you start adding Sanskrit in, become really tangible and really doable, and basically self-care, you know, going, are you looking after yourself? Are you being kind to yourself on the mat? Are you being kind to yourself off the mat, both in physical practice but in mental practice too, you know? Um, Polly, Polly Woodward, who she's done our teacher training, but she's also been leading the trainings for years with us. I remember once, and she's always been, I think, further along her journey in self-care than me, I'll say that. Um, and one the group were like, What's our homework tonight? in an in-person training. And she said, She was like, I want you to go home and give yourself a foot massage. I remember like, did you want to run that past me? Like looking at me, like, are you share you sure? And it was amazing the response because I did it. She said to me, Go home and do it. I did it, and it, you know, it felt really uncomfortable. I was like, What am I doing? This is so weird. And then I was like, actually, that was so nice, right? And like lift of energy it gave me from that small practice of self-care, and they all came back in the same morning, and that's kind of what they were all talking about. This like small thing that happened last night. But it wasn't a small thing, it was a step towards raising their importance on their to-do list, increasing their self-worth through self-care, and how incredible that felt. And for me, that's that's what we need to be doing. It's like these really small but practical tools that just shift and raise our energy to prioritizing ourselves a bit more so that we're kinder to ourselves, you know, so that we have the energy to be kinder to others.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Yeah. Because it's a question I often get asked as someone who practices yoga, is a yoga teacher, are you vegetarian? It's like one of the first ones out of the bag, and people are a bit obsessed with that, or even vegan. So, what's your take on that?

SPEAKER_01 16:41

It's been a long journey, to be honest, because I felt all those pressures over the years, and there have been times when veganism was like kind of new and like everyone was doing it, and I did it. And I hate to be that lemming, I really hate that actually. I'm quite like yeah, quite anti-like if there's a trend going on in Instagram, like, well, on purpose, I'm not gonna do it because I can't bear the thought of being a lemming. But at the time I did it because I was like, I want to know how this feels, and I felt awful. Like my body got really ill, I got flu. Maybe it was coincidence, but honestly, I was with Sam at the time, and I remember just being to him, like, it's almost like a mirage. All I can see is like salmon and eggs, salmon and eggs. That's like all I wanted. And he was like, For God's sake, just have some salmon and eggs. I don't know how much was psychosomatic, but my god, I felt so much better for it. Um, and I think it's a very literal interpretation. I wish that I could live that way because I feel actually it's more in line with my principles, but my body didn't respond to it, and I'm not gonna force something and be ill, you know, for any more time than I need to be, because I'm kind of trying to hold on to that when it didn't work for me. Um, you know, I've always used the excuse that my my maiden name is Butcher, so maybe there's just meat in the family, you know, somewhere in my genes needs that, needs that. I don't know. And I've you know, I went through a really tough time actually making light of it, but like I remember watching, you know, Cowspiracy, I remember watching the one about the sea, the fish. It was like everything, and then I went to Tony Robbins and then I listened to the guy present on the plant paradox. So I was like, right, hang a sec, so I'm not gonna eat meat, I'm also not gonna eat fish. And now here's the the plants that I were eating that are also gonna kill me, right? And then it's like but then if you're a vegan, then that you can't use any kind of leather, so now I'm using plastic, but we shouldn't be using plastic either. So I was just like, do you know what? It's all too much, and it was really restrictive and was like killing my energy. And I was just like, I'm gonna do me, and I'm gonna be really conscious in the way that I do that, and you know, you know, paying for things that you want to vote for, so you know, all this kind of grass fred, and you know everything I can do in my power, shopping organically and locally, and from the farm shop and all of that, I do. But if it doesn't work for my body and I'm forcing something, then I let it go. Um, and so I really think it's about just listening to your body on this one and maybe not being quite so restrictive. That's my personal experience. But what about you?

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Yeah, I agree. It was similar to my journey, really, and I feel like dogma in itself is harmful, you know. Labeling and dogma, you know, they give you it gives you nowhere to manoeuvre. And you know, I think some of the views, you know, when people are very fanatical about anything, can be quite harmful. So I don't like labels around food and diet and nutrition because I just don't think it's helpful. So yeah, I live in a similar way to you. I rarely eat red meat just because it doesn't suit me. Like I don't digest it well, and you know, for the other things that I do buy, like chicken and things like that, I try to buy higher welfare and organic um because hopefully that animal has lived a better life. So, yeah, I think it's a very personal subject, and I completely agree, you have to do you, and with this principle of non-violence and non-harm, it is kind of that sense of self first, like put your own oxygen mask on, take care of yourself so that you can take care of other people, so that you can live your life in a way that is optimum and you know, living your purpose.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah, I think something that's actually it came up this evening because I was reading Lenny's story to go to sleep, and it was about pirates, and um they were talking about the diet of a pirate, and there was like these pictures of fish on the page, and actually it was a bit exaggerative, I think. I hope because they spoke about a turtle that they ate turtles. But he said to me, he was like, But mommy, do they eat the fish? And I was like, Yeah, they yeah, they eat the fish, and he was like, But only when the fish is dead, and I was like, Yeah, the fish will be dead, and he's like, with its eyes closed, and I was like, Yeah, it's probably got its eyes closed as well. And then he was like, Oh, but that's really mean. What like did they kill the fish? And I was like, Oh god, where are we going with this? And it's really difficult, isn't it? I think with kids, because I don't I want him to have protein, I actually want him to eat fish. If I tell him that that's a real fish that he's eating, then it might put him off, you know. It probably will put him off because he's four, he doesn't really understand. But it's for me, I'm always trying to kind of relay that like you know, the tigers they eat meat, you know, and it's that cycle of life thing. But I think that's also what brings me peace is that it's always happened, right? And I know there's all these studies that you know, cavemen actually. She ate majority grains and stuff like that. But I think the cycle of life is that, yeah, you know, we did eat animals, and that that's okay. Um, but I also think, yeah, it's just conscious living, which is that kind of non-harm, and that as you say, we don't need to be extreme. I think extremism is harmful in itself, so it's really just about, isn't it, balance what we keep coming back to?

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Yeah, always balance everywhere. And as we go through um these yamas and the yamas, I thought I could weave a little bit of astrology in. And I think the thing to look at with ahimsa, non-violence, is look at where Mars is in your chart. What sign is it in? What house is it in? Mars is the planet of drive and aggression, and it can indicate kind of how we deal with anger, conflict, power. So you can kind of see how that's related to Ahimsa. So someone with Mars at home in Aries in the first house of self, like this is a really basic example, but they're probably gonna be somebody who one of their lessons in life is going to be learning to control their temper. Um, so yeah, what looking at where Mars is in your chart could be helpful, and then for some people, this journey towards Ahimsa is gonna be more challenging than other people, naturally, you know. Like I've got a few planets in Libra, so you know, I'm all about the peace, but not everyone is that way, and so I think you know, when you can look at yourself through your birth chart, it can also, I don't know, give a bit of validation that you know, if this is something that you're struggling with, um, you know, that is your battle to have in a way in this lifetime, and that's okay, like everyone's got their sort of lessons that they're here to learn.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yeah, that's that's the point actually that I was gonna say earlier about because I'm glad you covered that, but this idea that like these are practices and we do all need to practice them, and yet, because of our chart, our birth chart, and our stars, we are gonna find some of these harder than others just through natural tendency, right? Um, and I think that's really important to say because it can be a theme, can't it? And I think that's where astrology is so useful to go, yeah, of course, of course, you find that difficult because XYZ, and it's kind of that like okay, okay, you know, I'm not actually doing anything wrong. As you say, this is gonna be harder for me because of my placements, and actually, this is the lesson that I need to be learning, and that's okay that it's hard, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Yeah, and also it's trusting that you know, the people that you have soul contracts and deep relationships with need the exact medicine in your chart, assuming you know it's not some terrible relationship, but we're all learning off of each other all of the time and observing these things in each other, like we don't live in a vacuum, we're here to see ourselves through different lenses, and you know, the different people that we spend time with can bring out those different aspects of self.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Yeah, so Judith Lassiter, um, anyone who's studying yoga will probably have heard of her, but she she wrote the book. Um, I think it's a year in, but of basically living your yoga. So Judith Lassiter, living your yoga, and it's basically all about you know these principles. And she talks about Ahimsa really nicely, and she just basically said it's about trying not to make an enemy of anything or anyone, um, and not allowing negativity to feed thoughts, you know. And I think we can we're all guilty of that at times, aren't we? Especially like I can get really frustrated with you know, government, society, but actually, you know, it's that kind of drinking your own poison thing. It's that that is harmful, that's harmful to yourself and the energy that you're putting out there. Um, and her kind of antidote was this idea that we meet all things with loving openness, you know, which sounds really obvious, but that's that's a real practice, isn't it? And that's not something that's always going to come easy, but is a really clear kind of directive, you know, just to meet all things with loving openness. That I feel like, okay, yeah, that's Ahimsa, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And anything that you're meeting in someone else that you don't like is usually something hidden and deep within yourself.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Yeah, it's a mirror, isn't it? So that's that's the work, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

That's the work.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

The work. Do the work to get the thing, enlightenment.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

Okay. Let's talk about satiya and truthfulness next, then. So for me, satiya is about living in alignment with our own authentic truth that's gonna be individual to us and speaking and living consciously in a way that reflects uh inner honesty. You know, what do we believe in, each of us? And I think it will be good to talk about this from uh on the mat perspective to start with. So, yeah, you can speak into that if you want.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yeah, okay. I love this one, and you'll you can probably explain later why I'm obsessed with this one a little bit. Um, so being honest with yourself on your yoga mat for me is where a lot of the transformation begins. So the moment we can start being really honest with ourselves, I think things really change in the way that you know, previous to that we might be holding on to like, well, I'm right and they're wrong, and there's almost like a false arrogance there or whatever. And when you're on the yoga mat, you you're faced with a pose, a challenge essentially, that is pretty humbling because a lot of it's really hard and the arrogance falls away, and you kind of go like shit, this is really difficult. And then the questions might be asked, you know, are you pushing too hard? You know, is your self-worth connected to your achievement? Where else is that happening? And these just like truth bombs hitting, and you know, you're then sent another challenge, maybe you're crow pose and armbalance, and maybe you give up, maybe you don't even try. And the question might be, you know, where else do you hold yourself back? Where else do you doubt yourself? Or have you decided you can't do anything before you've even tried? Or and it's just this like for me, if you could kind of drop those bombs and those questions when you're teaching, so that people start to face their own truths. In yoga, you know, you call them these samskaras, these deeply trodden pathways that are like the lies, they are the limiting beliefs, they are the masks that we wear. And I don't feel you can really transform with all that going on. I think the first step has to be honesty, and it has to start with yourself, and the yoga poses do that for you in the way that they just humble you so much that you've got to work with truth, and especially if the right questions are being asked, you know. I mean, it will happen in a faster practice, in the way that you're all the inner dialogue will be going, this is too fast, and you know, start blaming the teacher and all of that, and then you realize that you go to begin class and it happens because it's too slow, and you don't want to be with your thoughts, and there can just be this blame game going on all the time, and then just hopefully at some point the penny will drop that you'll go, Okay, like I need to look at myself here, and then that's it. You know, when we start being really honest with ourselves and knowing that you know the only thing that we control is us, then everything changes. Our way of being just changes because we're more humble and we're more into self-study rather than into blame. Um, so truthfulness on the mat, yeah, it's provoked all the time, hopefully. I mean, I think the risk there can be a risk of like in the gymnastics style classes that actually it just becomes like a hand-stand competition, and then I really feel like we've lost a lot of that work. So I think you know, hopefully, if the physical practice is taught in a way that promotes that, then that's where the journey starts for me.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Yeah, I you mentioned yin a little bit there, but for me, like truth, I believe, for me, anyway, this has been my journey, can really only emerge in stillness and space and silence to be with yourself. And yin gives that, you know, you're in those poses for a few minutes, you might not like where you're you know, that the pose that you're in, but there's no distraction, and is in those moments that you really face like the truth of, yeah, what am I thinking about? What am I being dragged towards? Um, what is my breath doing? All of these things that I think can expose the truth of who you are. Um, and the truth of who you are is like a far deeper question, and I think it was through that practice that yeah, I started to to sort of ask the question you know, who am I beneath the layers of my being because I am not my body because I can observe it, and I'm not my mind, I'm observing my thoughts, and I'm not my emotions because they move through me and I can feel them. So, what you know, what am I? And I think these are questions that yoga provokes to get us comfortable with the fact that you know we're more than just a human, you know, we're a soul. Um, is that you know that classic saying, isn't it, that you're a soul living a human experience, having a human experience, and you know that's the thing. I always come back to this, like it gets you comfortable with death, and if you don't fear death, because you know that your soul is living on, you don't fear anything, and that's the truth for me. Um, you know, just to go straight in there.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

I love I love hearing you speak like that because it's so I think it's really empowering, and it's really nice to hear you speak about death in a way that is not apologetic and not fearful, because I think we need more of that dialogue, and I love the energy that you have behind that. I think you're right in terms of yin, you know, being with yourself and not being able to distract yourself from yourself. Yin is incredible for that. I think it's pretty hard-hitting and hard to get used to. Like a beginner going to yin feels pretty tough. I think interestingly, some people come to Vinyasa, they kind of do the fitness-y bit and then they get to the hip opener sequence and they hold for the first time in a half pigeon and they go, It's about this is hard, you know. The whole time it's been fast in vinyasa, and like I wish it would bloody slow down, and then they get to the hip openers and like I wish it would bloody speed up. And it's like that because it's almost harder, it's harder to be still and in discomfort and interesting. We'll get to tapas later and talk about this to be with yourself and to be with truth than it is to be kind of distracting yourself from flowing from you know, Warrior One, Warrior Two, Reverse Warrior and Chaturanga. Like you can keep busying yourself from yourself, but it's only when you're with stillness that you really can start to spend time considering those questions. And then, isn't it ironic that you know eventually you don't, you know, you can do yin, and then you can do nidra and then you're in meditation, and it's almost like the more advanced you get in the practice, the less practice you do, because ultimately the yoga is in contemplation, it is in ways of being, and I think like what you've spoken about, you know, Becky, you have a great depth to you in your work, is this kind of soul work. My experience wasn't that way, in the sense that I didn't realise really at any point that I wasn't my body and I wasn't my thoughts, so who am I? It was kind of a shallower journey, I suppose, that was you know, whatever conflict I was in at the that time, I'd come onto my mat and I'd go, I'd let go of my perspective and I'd go, hang on a second, which part of this is me? Where's that coming from in me? What's the work that I need to be doing here to change? And really getting to the root of yeah, the root of it, you know, the root of my being and where that is coming from. So, you know, I guess I say that to reassure that if you're not having that experience on the map, that's kind of a realization that I am not my body, which is absolute truth. Maybe you're a stage just before that, which is just coming to the truth of what's going on and the more kind of day-to-day matters of your life is huge. Um, so yeah, I think the physical practice is a gateway into truth, right? Really, because it forces you to be with yourself in silence, and we don't often do that when we're at home, do we? We've got the TV, we've got the radio, we've got we invite people over because we don't want to be on our own, and we're always just distracting ourselves from ourselves. But in yoga, you can't do that, and with the right guidance and feeling like you're in a safe space, that can be the most transformative experience.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Yeah, and I I think also for me, my experience in yin sometimes is that just through being in stillness, if I am struggling with a problem, or you know, I'm trying to make a decision about something, that it is through that stillness and being with myself that sometimes the choice will naturally emerge. So I think it can be a great practice, like you say, to get you out of thinking into your body so that you feel what truth is at a more practical level as well.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Yeah, and then for me, like something that I have found really difficult, and I do find difficult, and they say this is where you can really find the kind of gold in these practices, is where you wrestle two concepts together. And something that I spoke to you before this call about was that I wanted to go in a little bit, and again, not to focus on me, but to hopefully share personal examples so that others might be able to relate and make these subjects really tangible to kind of day-to-day life. So, for me, the battle between non-harm and truthfulness I find really difficult. So, you know, I said to you that I just basically want to speak truth and that I know it offends people, and I can be a bit cutthroat about that, and at times have questioned if there is any form of autism within me that cares so not cares so little about like the impact of truth, but basically places truth so highly that I'm just like, can we just work with this? Like, what's the point in just not being completely honest? Because we're not gonna get anywhere, we're just gonna waste time, and I think that can be a bit relentless, and and so for me, the practice is sometimes in knowing when truthfulness is kind of harmful and not, and then I think there's a kind of a more complex layer, which is what I was thinking about today, driving my car. I'm thinking, well, it's harmful to somebody else to be probably too honest at times, unnecessarily honest, maybe, but then isn't it harmful to self to not express your truth, right? So, like, where do we kind of land with that? And the answer in my research to that question was as you say, in silence, be with yourself in silence and and and land where you land. Knowing that, like this the quote that I found, which was amazing, was realizing that the truth may be bigger than you, and that landed that that was like, okay, yeah, it isn't about me. Um, so it's not about the truth that I need to share. And I guess in that was this idea that maybe the truth will kind of reveal itself anyway. And what I have learned with wisdom, I guess, getting older, is this idea that sometimes I don't need to say anything and it comes out anyway, and that's been really nice. But when I explained that to you about me, you had a really good astrology angle on that, which might be worth sharing, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

Yeah, so Mercury is the planet to look for, or one of the planets to look for when we're thinking about truth, because Mercury is the planet of communication, and it's through the throat chakra, through the voice that we express our truth, right? So looking at where Mercury is in your chart can be really powerful to understand your style of communication and your relationship to truth. And for Laura, um, your Mercury is in Sagittarius in the first house. So the first house in astrology represents your identity, yourself. So, first, you know, that's the first connection really there, that you know, this sense of how you communicate, being a big part of who you are. And then Mercury is in Sagittarius in the first house. So Sagittarius is I mean, it's the truth seeker of the zodiac, it's always looking for truth. It is, if you know what the symbol for Sagittarius is, it's the sign of the archer, the arrow that's aiming high. It wants to find truth with that arrow. And so for you, it's a huge part of your identity. And the thing is with Sagittarius as well, like Sagittarius can be relentless with this, it's a fire sign. Um, and yeah, Sagittarius can be like very articulate on matters of spirituality, but it can be a little bit like double-footed with things as well, like I'm a Sagittarius son, and like I make loads of spelling mistakes when I'm writing and things like that. So it can be like have good intention, but can sometimes be a little bit like clumsy almost, and say things before like it's realised what it's said, like the harm maybe behind it. And I know you've said things like that to me have come up for you before. So and the other thing is um your Mercury is at 27 degrees of Sagittarius, so this is in the last few degrees of the sign. So every sign, we're all a combination of all 12 signs, and every sign is 30 degrees. So when you're in those final few degrees of a sign, it can really represent like a completion energy and a sense of like achieving mastery in it. And you know, I watch you teach on spiritual matters and you know, speak about truth and yoga and all of these things, and Sagittarius is a teacher as well, it's a spiritual teacher, and like you're so articulate and you're so brilliant at explaining these concepts in a way that people really understand, really lands with them, and that's your gift as well. So, you know, yes, like every every placement has its kind of shadow aspect that can be harder to manage, but it also brings huge gifts, and I think it's about understanding that whatever placements you've got, yeah, the world needs your your medicine, whatever you're here to deliver. And you know, like maybe Adam needs some of those truth bombs.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

Yeah, and that's why, God, I love astrology and you, Peggy. Um, because isn't that so reassuring? Like, I hope people listening, you know, this is an example of my placement in terms of truth, but the truth is that whatever your placement is that maybe you feel is quite an extreme version of yourself that you may then kind of feel like apologetic for or maybe shameful for, is that kind of like, no, that's your gift, and you know, trying to make ourselatable in a way really can prevent that gift from getting through. Um, for me as well, it's come with uh like letting go of being liked, um, because you know, being really honest and saying things that people don't always want to hear is not gonna mean that I've got like all the friends in the world, but kind of being okay with that too, you know. Like I did a presentation um, I think it was two days ago, and it was about health, and it was about how you know people don't go to the gym really for health, they go to the gym for appearance. Um, and that you know, generally we're kind of stuck in that cycle of like being stressed, overeating, then over-gymmming because of the calories, and then overeating because of stress and the cortisol. And I was like, it's it is basically because we're we're more interested in appearance than health, and as I was saying, I could feel the energy coming back to me that like they're not liking this, they're not liking being told this truth, and yet I was like, I'm not gonna do it any other way. So if you don't like it. Then that's cool. And that's kind of had to be how I'm like living my life. And it's meant that I've lost friends, yeah, because I can't be bothered with conversations that aren't based on truth. I can't be bothered with superficiality. Like I don't, I don't have the time for it. And that can make me, I think, feel sometimes a bit cutthroat and a bit like I don't suffer fools gladly because I'm just like, come on, like, if we're not going to talk about the truth here, and the what's the point in having the conversation? Um, so as you say, yeah, great the great gifts will come from all of these things in our stars, but not always easy. It's not, you know, there's always gonna be the shadow side of it, and I think for me it's about kind of making peace with that too.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Yeah, I think you have to. It's like you know, you're never gonna please all other people all of the time, but by not being authentically who you are, expressing yourself as you're meant to express yourself, then you're gonna be creating harm essentially to yourself, and you're not meeting your dharma, your moral obligation to do what you're here to do.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Yeah, and we've spoken before, and I think it's probably wise to kind of asterisk this with like the pendulum. You remember, like not swinging too far to the end of the spectrum because I'm always a really catch myself and I will always make myself ask the question was that too much? Was that unfair? Probably after I should do it before, shouldn't I? But you know, like moderating in a way that is still kind but that still gets the truth across, and that's what this is. This is that practice is wrestling between these concepts that that creates this way of living and this conscious way of living, you know? Yeah, okay. Okay, so next on the list, Beck, shall we go? Esther stealing. So, what do you think about this one?

SPEAKER_00 45:58

Oh, I think this is a good one to talk about in context of being on your yoga mat. Um, and for me, Astea on the yoga mat is, yeah, maybe it is where where are you stealing from your practice? Where are you trying to do something that's not there for you right now? Or um, where are you? I suppose this is more non-covetousness, but like where are you stealing from someone else's practice by looking at their mat and what are they doing and comparison? Um you can see it in like where are you stealing from one side of the body to get into a pose in order to, I don't know, like do something like a bind, and so then your alignment is compromised, you are risking injury. So, yeah, I think it shows up in many places on the mat. So I don't know if you want to expand on that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

Yeah, I think I mean that pretty much covers it in the sense that yeah, you can steal from yourself energy. I was gonna say, and it's these do like lead on to each other because when you look at brahmacharya, it's all about that energy, but you can steal your own energy, you know, you can kind of force and push, and you're stealing from yourself in that way. Um, but for me, yeah, a big one, and you're right, that does, you know, it does lead on to that kind of a parigraha, this like not wanting, not coveting, so they kind of go together, but like stealing someone else's practice, you know, basically comparing um yourself. They say like comparison is the thief of all joy, right? So it is that it's stealing your own joy by comparison comparing yourself to somebody else. So I think all of that is true. I think uh for me, to be honest, timeliness is a big one, like being late is stealing someone else's time, and that's for me because being late is a really interesting one, isn't it? It brings up a lot for people, um, maybe just me, speak from eye on that. But yeah, I feel awful when I'm late, and I'm like, why do I feel so bad about this? But it's because you are stealing something from somebody, um, and I think that's really important. I mean, as a yoga teacher, and we have it, don't we, on teacher trainings? Like, people just turn up late and gives a really bad vibe in the group. Um, because it is it's kind of disrespectful when it's stealing from people's time in that way. You can steal people's energy, you know. We all know what it's like to be around what I probably wrongly call vampires, you know. People who really just suck the energy out of you, and for me, that's not you know, you might assume that that's negative people. I don't really have a problem with negativity, and in fact, I'm kind of I'm better with negativity than like toxic positivity. That for me is so draining, it's the truth thing, isn't it? Um, so yeah, stealing other people's energy, other people's time from a yoga perspective, we see this all the time, you know, students hanging around after class because they want more, they want more teaching, they want more of you, you know. And whether that's literally in a class or whether that's on a training, you know, we have to be really strict with our boundaries, and over the years we've become very strict for this reason, you know, like we can't be attending to people in their breaks, it's not fair on other people. Um, on an online training, you know, I've had to be really clear with my working hours because otherwise it's all night, all day, all through the weekends, you know, people with their personal struggles. So, not stealing, being respectful of people's boundaries and not stealing their time and their energy in that way, I think is really important, a really healthy practice. And actually, do you know what the best way to self-reflect in that is when somebody puts down their boundaries? And I see this. I see when I put down my boundaries and training, and I find that really difficult because I want to overgive, right? I have to put my boundaries down and go just reminding you of the T's and C's here, these are our working hours, and like really happy to help at any point within there, but this is outside of that. It makes them do the work, it makes them go, they won't like it. Oh yeah, I need more, more, more. But then hopefully, eventually, it's this like where's this neediness coming from, right? And those are the truths that they want to be working with that sometimes boundaries really force us to do, so it's a really healthy thing for everybody. Um, yeah, what about you, Beck? Anything else on that?

SPEAKER_00 50:23

I think that the thing that I was just scribbling while you were talking was around like how social media steals so much of our time and energy, right? So we've got to be really conscious of that. And you know, for me, like recently, fairly recently, kind of starting a personal brand, you know, one of the things that are is really important to me with the work that I do is that everything I do gives value. So I think that's something to think about as well. Like, if you're if you've got a business and you're sending emails out and things like that, like where are you adding value? How do you bring value to someone else? And I think you know, even as a yoga teacher, how can you bring value? It's kind of the opposite to Esteya, you know, it's like the opposite of stealing is bringing value. And one of the planets that you can look at for this is like see where your Venus placement is. Venus represents um what brings us value, and that's in relationship to somebody else. Um but it reminds us of what our personal values are, and I think if we can stay true to what our personal values are, then you know we're not likely to steal from somebody else in terms of their energy and their time because it's what's true for us. So you know you were talking about kind of timekeeping and stuff like that. If that's something that is like one of your values and you're sticking to it, then you know you're automatically not going to steal that from somebody else, and also you you can sort of learn like that might be one of the things that yeah, triggers you to feel like you've been stolen from.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Yeah, and I think we've touched on this before, but I think also I think what you might be getting at in a way is like the money side of things as well. So the idea that if I overcharge for a course, I'll feel like I'm stealing from them, and I won't be able to be in my power or in my authenticity or in my truth delivering that course if I feel like I'm not giving them the value that they've paid that doesn't feel truthful and that feels like I'm stealing. Um, so I think there's also that idea that you, you know, yeah, adding the value in kind of level to what you're charging is really important. Equally, if you undercharge and then people take the service, for me, they can feel like a resentment of like they've stolen from me. And the only person whose responsibility is to change that is you, right? And I found this kind of with my one-to-one coaching and stuff, you know, there'd be so many hours in the day, and these people would be wanting so much, and I'd have to start charging more because I was feeling resentful of the amount that I was giving for them for the amount that I was charging. That's a red flag for me to go, you've got to charge more because you can't go into this with resentful energy. Um, so I think that there's a really interesting one there around money, which feels quite a literal interpretation of stealing, but actually it's not, it's quite subtle when you're working with like energy exchange and delivering value.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

Um I think also, you know, if you don't charge enough for something, yes, like there's the resentment aspect from you, but I think also if you're undercharging, people don't value what you're doing. And I think sometimes like the investment in something can be the activation. Because, right, you're spending what a couple of grand, two and a half grand or something on a yoga teacher training, you know, if that isn't enough of a like activation to make you show up, not steal from yourself by being late or missing, you know, sessions or not going to practice, teach, whatever it is. Um, you know, whereas if you charged £100 for that teacher training, you know, really amazing, you know, stupid, crazy value, people are not going to value it. Oh, it's only £100. So yeah, like I can just do it again another time, and what you're offering can't be that good if it's only £100. So I think, you know, I think pricing is yeah, it's such an interesting topic. And I know we've got scheduled a whole episode about money. So maybe we should leave that, leave that to go into.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

The only last thing I would say, not on money, but on stealing, is um like so stealing ideas, you know, stealing work, stealing words. Um and like it's I've definitely been pretty painful. Obviously, I did my yoga training pretty early doors, and there wasn't any yoga in Worcester, and look where we are now. Granted, I haven't helped myself because hundreds of those people I've qualified myself and then put them into Worcester and then watch them create the branding which looks identical to the studio, right? And you're like, okay, it's they're hard lessons to take. So it's that our hymn sower is like meet everything with like loving kindness and joy, and knowing there's an abundance, so like some of the fear of that I think comes from this feeling that there's not enough, and there's an abundance, so I've learned those lessons, but it is stealing, it is you know, that I think that's why it hits so hard because it's stealing an idea, it's stealing an energy, it's stealing someone else's work. Um, so I you know, I think that's something else to say. It's always so important to reference people, which we try and do all the time, you know, to credit people for their work and their ideas, and ultimately, like all we are a combination really of other people's ideas, you know. So it's like really referencing those. Nothing we don't own anything, nobody owns yoga. I remember Pratchy coming, doing her teaching was amazing at that. She was like, Oh, this is a cultural appropriation, like, yes, it's great to have you know appreciation for the lineage, but it's like they're thinking that they own it, and and that coming from somebody from India and Rishikesh was such a breath of fresh air because she was like, These are tools to help people, we should be spreading it far and wide, not restricting it because of this fear in some way. Um, so there's you know, a bit in there, one is about not stealing ideas, the other is about abundance, but I think, yeah, it's just about um yeah, having an awareness of whether you're stealing and what that feels like, because ultimately, like with money, the energy and the calm is going to come back around to you. And that is something that I have always stayed really true to is faith in the sense that if I am the creator, I will always be the creator, and I have such like heart in that. Now, when people like copy, I'm like, it's okay, because they're always going to be one or ten steps behind because my brain is the creator, so I'm always ahead of that. Um, and that I hope that's reassuring for people who've have experienced that because it is tough.

SPEAKER_00 57:21

Yeah, I agree. I've had people like literally copy stuff off my website, and I think you know what, like it comes down to the fact that settia and truthfulness is above Esteia, and you can't like fake someone else's frequency. So it's gonna lose its power because it's not truth for that person, and so they can copy, they can do whatever, but if it's your if it's your original work and your truth, it's just you know, you're you're ultimately gonna benefit from that, probably.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

So it's the frequency of it, isn't it? When you say that, I'm like, it's the frequency behind your trick. Truth has such a potent and powerful frequency, and copying just there's no weight behind it, you know, and you can feel that, and like the people smell it a mile off. Like, I always feel a bit sorry for the teacher trainers when they disqualify because obviously they've heard certain teachers, and we've got a lovely variety of teachers now, which is great. I think when it used to just be me, it would be like a lot of me, a lot of like my phrases that I chuck in there, and they're just trying, they're just learning and they're repeating. There's no, like, I would feel no, that's what they're supposed to be doing. It's like having the stabilizers on, they've got to do that. But then always encouraging them like, find your voice, share what this pose has taught you, like, and that's where your power and your connection is going to come through in your teaching. And it is probably years later. I know Emma Jenkins would happily share on this that she's like, her classes have transformed because she found the confidence to speak her own truth and not just kind of do what everyone else said all the time, which makes you an okay, good teacher, but not like outstanding connection. Um, it's a game changer when you can start doing that.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Yeah. Okay. Shall we move on? Brahmacharya. So come on, you can explain what brahmacharya is.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

Okay, so brahmacharya, they used to think meant celibacy. So they used to think, because you've got to remember that Sanskrit and all these definitions, well, first of all, we've spoken before, but Sanskrit was never designed to be written, it was a spoken language, and it was all about you know, the meaning behind the word was how you felt when you were expressing it. So it was nowhere near as literal as like what we do in the West, which is like that's a cat, that's a cat, and you're just like, okay, there's no feeling engaged. With brahmacharya, yeah, context has led the definition of the word to mean celibacy because it's about not wasting energy. That's really what it means. And yet, when we're talking about Sanskrit definitions, you know, a lot of this is coming from kind of monks, and the distraction or the waste of the energy at the time might have been sexual activity, right? So they went, okay, brahmacharya means you know, celibacy, so none of that is happening. And so when we look at these, we can, you know, take them very literally and go, right, well, that must be what I'm supposed to be doing then. And I mean, do whatever you like in that department, but what it actually means is not wasting energy. And I think that's probably a more useful um way to interpret it because we can do that in so many ways, you know, not just in the bedroom, but in every aspect of our life. How do we waste energy? Are we wasting it in you know conflict uh in our mind, in relationships? Are we wasting it in overgiving, overdoing? Uh, you know, there are so many ways that we can waste energy. So it's about just I think that's probably a more helpful definition. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:00

Yeah, it's like it could show up in doing a job that feels like a waste of energy, a waste of time. It's like almost a sense of not contributing to something bigger as well, I think, you know. Um, and I think also if we bring it back to the yoga mat, it can look like not trying too hard, you know, for me. The more that I studied yin um and qigong and things like that, when those practices are meant to be about effortless effort, a sense of in in yin, I always talk about like what's the minimum that you can do to be in this pose right now and feel something going on. Um, and for me that's brahmacharya, it's like the restraint of energy, the not you know, pushing to 110% in everything that you do, because you're gonna get burnt out, you're gonna be exhausted. And you know, maybe that could be linked in some way to perfectionism as well, like this sense of pushing towards a goal all of the time when you know life can also be yes, like goals and having a direction, of course, is important, but also so is being able to live in the moment and enjoy like where you are right now, so it's that sense of the balance of those two things.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

Yeah, and I love like often there's analogies given here to like money, so you know, if you had a hundred you know pounds in the bank, would you just spend it all at once? Would you hold a bit back? Like, and actually, energy management is very much like financial management, and managing your energy, being very good at energy management is actually a skill, and understanding like if you are just overdoing it and then just flat and then needing the external energies, you know, and I see this all the time, we see this in our culture, don't we? With like all the caffeine, all the coffee, all the energy drinks. For me, that's just a sign that there's like a problem in energy management going on. Um, and that is coming from a deeper root of not feeling enough as we are, and feeling like you know, we've got to constantly be achieving and driving and you know, earning or providing, or I don't know, but like becoming very aware of that, bringing that samskara, that you know, deeply trodden subconscious pathway into light, and going, Yeah, my energy management needs some attention, you know. Um, so it's a really big topic, and I think it's so important, especially when we see you know autoimmune diseases and burnout, you know, and like ME and stuff like that, that is just this fatigue. People are just constantly knackered because it's just life is so overstimulating and there's so much demand and it's so expensive, and you know how it's becoming harder and harder, I think, to manage energy. Um, but you know, the answer, let's keep it sort of semi-positive, I think, is it's about self-study, it's about knowing yourself and learning, you know, how to look after yourself, self-care. But something that is a game changer for me are these restorative practices, are these slower, lower impact practices like yoga, obviously, which do replenish our energy, you know. Without massage, to be honest, if I don't get a massage like frequently, that makes a huge difference. Somebody giving me back energy, it makes a really big deal to me, as well as like slower yoga practices. And yeah, okay, coming for a run like movement gives me energy too, but we've got to get good at that. We've got to go, okay. A run works for me in the morning, you know, restorative practice works for me in the evening, but taking your energy management really seriously is so important for your health, as well as you know what you have to give others and the health of your relationships, etc. too. It's all combined.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:03

Hmm, yeah. Yin taught me so much because um, in yin, well, in traditional Chinese medicine, it said that the kidneys hold qi, your life force energy, and it's there's like two types of qi. I'm probably gonna butcher this because I haven't got any notes, so disclaimer there. But it's this sense of qi being like having two bank accounts, one is your like your savings account, and that's got um you know money in it, and then one is your current account, and you're born with a certain amount of qi or energy in both accounts. So you keep spending out of your current account. If you go overdrawn, you have to take money out of your savings account to replenish your current account. And guess what happens when you run out of your money in both accounts? It's like it's game over, like you die. So So, how do you make sure that you're not draining down your savings account all the time? Well, that is management of your qi, your life force, energy, where you're choosing to direct it, where you're overgiving, like making sure you're eating the right foods. Because in Chinese medicine, like there's different types of qi, like there's grain qi, there's qi from the air that we breathe. So it's about breathing properly, um, eating the right food, and yeah, like nourishment of self. So I always like that lens to kind of look at and think, okay, like what is my current account balance at the end of today? And you know, what does that mean for tomorrow or you know, the weekend ahead? And yeah, I think like energy management is a skill that people are not taught, or it's just not talked about, but it's like such a vital life skill.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

Yeah, couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:02

Okay, shall we move on to the next one? Which is a parigraha or non-attachment.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

What do you think, Black? Go for it on this one.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:14

So a parigraha is about um releasing greed and possessiveness. Um, whether that's about material things or I guess it could be like about um emotional attachment as well. So it could show up as um like being really attached to stuff in the material world. Um, so people who yeah, like for me, like shopping addiction is like coming to mind here of like needing to buy all the things to yeah, feel feel something. Um whereas like I'm not saying there's anything wrong with shopping, and I think we've talked about this on other episodes, like it's okay to, it's great to have like nice things go. Like, I have got a Louis Vuitton bag, but like it's not the be all and end all, like I don't need it to be happy or to like live a fulfilling life, so it's this balance again of like having nice things and enjoying the material world and things around us, but without grasping on and like needing it to make us feel good about ourselves, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:39

And this we will lead on to the Niyamas, which moves on to Soutra, and I think the two for me are really closely connected in the sense that I think because I've moved house a lot and knowing like Adam and I's plan is to renovate and move, you know, we moved in here nine months later, like we've sold it again, we're gonna be moving again. Do you know the beauty of that? Because I say that to people and they're like, God, that literally sounds awful. And I'm like, why? I love it. Like we capsule live. Like, I have a wardrobe which has four jumpers in, five t-shirts, and three pairs of jeans, right? And like a couple of summer dresses, and I got rid of everything, gave it all to charity, and I've never felt lighter, happier, like you know, just the less like I've got one little box of Halloween decorations, one of Christmas decorations, like just small all I need is all I need, and it's the most like freeing way to live. And like every time the kids get a bit older, you know, just get give away all of the stuff, right? And then one thing they can have, and then and it's just and I think that's really good for children as well to like appreciate what they've got, but yeah, I think just minimal living is so freeing, and this like hoarding and this greed, and this like cupboards and cupboards and drawers and drawers of clothes and like stuff, I just actually make me feel a bit poorly. Like, I just I would hate to live like that because it must feel so weighty and confusing. I couldn't think straight. Um, so that's what I mean about with um Southern, which we'll move on to in a minute, but is like audliness and cleanliness. Like, I've almost become a little bit OCD in the house, and I have to watch it because it's like I love to sit down at work if the house is tidy, and then I've got such clarity in my mind on like my to do list and what I'm doing, it's just this like laser focus, and I feel like it all just works well together because then when you look at tapas and you look at you know discipline and stuff, you know, there's a reason that Pat and Jolly wrote these of this order because it just flows perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:46

Yeah, and as you were talking, I was just kind of thinking of like how this attachment to material things, like it's a safety thing, it's a root chakra, like over, you know, I don't know what the word is, but yeah, it's like an over-attachment to things, and that is like a root chakra imbalance. That we need that material safety to feel at home here on planet Earth and like we're safe, and you know, so I think it's again like doing the inner work as to like why do you need all these things in order to feel safe? Um, so that's something that yeah, I think more people perhaps need to lean into and think about. Um, where do you think this might show up on someone's yoga mat? Because I'm aware we haven't covered that on this one.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:47

Yeah, that's so true. Um for me, there's always like a list of things that they need to have nailed in their yoga practice, and like you know, so it starts with well, of course, down dog, and then it will be usually crow, and then it will be side crow, and then it'll be headstand, and then it'll be handstand, and then it'll be forearm stand, usually in that order, yeah. And for me, that it's like they're collecting this need to feel like they can do yoga, right? And I had this before, you know, people have like emailed in, I'm interested in doing the teacher training. I can do peacock pose, so I think I'm alright. And I'm like, it's just not about that, like it's just really not about that, and I and so it just as it's not about collecting all the material things, it's not about collecting all the poses either. Um, that's my kind of first interpretation of it, I suppose. Um what do you think, Beck, on the physical practice there?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:53

Yeah, I think it's that, it's not trying to always strive for the next pose. And I think in the practice it can show up as like, say you have a struggle in a pose, and it's then when you move on to the next part of the class, the sequence, whatever you're working on, it's like letting go of that, not remaining fixated on the fact that you couldn't do, you know, whatever pose it was. Because I've seen that as well, and I've taught classes, and then literally you can see it's in that person's mind, and they will come up to you at the end of class and be like, Oh, I feel like I really need you know, this pose breaking down again, and you know, and it's just like let go of it, it's not about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:41

It's hard, isn't it? Especially when, and this is when there's always the right teacher for the right student, because back in the old days, and people used to book a one-to-one, they'd be like, you know, they'd be like, I just want to work on my side crow, so can we have a one-to-one on it? And I didn't really know how to say like no, because why is it so important? And I think that's also the beauty and the irony of yoga is that we've all done it. I've wanted to do that, and I've done it, and then I've done it, and I'm like, okay, what's next? And then I get to the handstand, and then I go, okay, what's next? And it's the irony of it all is that, like, once you get there, you realise it doesn't matter at all. Um, and but it's it's kind of like you can only really fully believe that once you've done it. So yeah, I think it is it is about achieving, isn't it? But then again, what we do on the mat is what we do off the mat, and that's exactly at that point in my life what I was doing with my career. You know, I just want to be there, okay. Yeah, I just want to be there, okay. Now I want to get here, then I want to be there. And it's just this like constantly, yeah, more. It's more the want monster, as Robbie Williams, you know, said that's what it is. I think it's this like letting go of like the wanting more, more, more all the time, and just kind of going, like, yeah, this is enough, this is plenty. Um, which again will lead on to contentment or santosha, right? So I think we are getting now out of the yamas, the things that we're trying to avoid, and nicely coming into the niyamas, so the things that we're trying to work towards.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:16

Yeah. So, first, niyama is saucha, as you uh referenced earlier, which means purity or cleanliness. So in yoga, this can show up in terms of like I think I often think of this as like how we as teachers set out the studio or the room that we're teaching in before we start a class, right? We we have the mats nicely laid out, the props are nicely ordered. It's this sense of alignment and cleanliness and purity and simplicity to the way that the room is set up.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:00

Yeah, exactly. So there's the really literal, isn't there? Um, yeah, orderliness, and and hopefully you do see that in a studio, and it is a clean place to practice, and we're not walking on other people's mats and you know, being respectful of cleanliness and people's space for sure. Um, and also when we're looking at this, it's about um yeah, we can look back to like the Hatha Pradipika, for example, it was all about cleansing rituals. Like, actually, when you look back to the more traditional practices of yoga, it was very much about cleanliness, you know, and these quite extreme like purges in the body that would be done to keep the body clean, um, so that we could practice, but so that we had clear mind. And it's this idea that like the clean body leads to the clean mind. So, again, you know, mental refinement being the focus and like the body being the kind of byproduct that comes with it. Um, but yeah, trying to just keep the mind and the body kind of clean and in order, you know, I say is is like cultivates the calm, I think. For me, anyway, I can't I can't really find that calm. I find it hard to find the calm without that that orderliness.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:14

Hmm. Yeah. And in astrology, look at wherever Virgo falls in your chart because this is the sign that is closely, most closely related to this sense of purity and order and refinement. So if you've got prominent Virgo placements, you know, people say like uh Virgo can be a bit of a nightmare, a bit of a control freak, but it's the placement that will naturally lean into the discipline of cleanliness of self-a-and that you know is also closely linked to perfectionism as well. So for me, with my chart, I'm a Virgo rising, which is like how I meet the world. But the thing is, I've got a Sagittarius son, and my Sagittarius son is a bit more like gypsy queen, free living kind of style. But my rising sign is Virgo, and she likes order and cleanliness, and like balancing those two energies is a hard thing, you know. It's like, and you know, to talk about this, like the shame that maybe I'll feel when around mess and things like that, that is my natural Sagittarian, you know, um heart, really. But my Virgo likes things in order, and the thing is, the more that we can lean into our rising sign, actually, the more it allows the real gifts of your sun sign to come out. So for you, your rising sign is Sagittarius, so it's like I feel this from you. Like people meet you and they're like, Oh, she's like really spiritual, really like easygoing, but then your son is in Capricorn and it takes no prisoners and it is like no order, and you know, we have to have this sorted and discipline. Um so yeah, I think it's funny like sometimes how those energies can can show up, but um yeah, so Virgo, Virgo is a good one to look at, and yeah, and and Capricorn to a certain extent as well, but more from a kind of discipline perspective.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:35

I think I also just to wave a bit, weave a bit of psychology or wave it in. Um, here when I was doing my psychology training, one of the practices, I don't know if you're gonna love or hate this, one of the practices was for perfectionism, which I was actually rife, you know, struggling with that at the time, it was really, really strong. And she brought in the leader, she brought in a donut, each we each had to have a donut, beginning of the session, and the task was to like mush the donut up in your hands, okay? And we were there for three hours because it was like a half-day session, and we were not allowed to wash our hands, and we just had to continue the whole of the session in therapy, working with pens and paper, and all sorts having not washed our hands after like messing a donut up in our hands. I I could have been sick, I was just like, no, we've got to be joking, like somebody just let me get to a sink, like this is unbearable. It was such a valuable practice, and like other things that came off the back of like that for perfectionism was like half make your bed in the morning, half hoover the rug, like half do the dishes. Oh, it's like so difficult. But I think it does also really, if it is getting out of control, like the OCD and stuff, it's a good test, isn't it? Going like, how much are you needing that as well? So, like orderliness again is like great, but like you know, you don't need to be depending on it, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:07

Yeah, and I think also you know, if you're living with someone, is the way that I look at this, like my rising sign is Virgo, like it likes purity and order. And if you live with someone, and that you know, if Virgo rising is like the epitome of this, then you know, my standards for this are gonna be higher than his standards. So sometimes it's like, at what point does his need for cleanliness kick in? And I quite like playing with that. Like for me, I want the dishes done, right? But I know if I leave them till the next day, he will do them because it will kick in at that point. So I think it's like quite an interesting topic, it's quite fun to play with.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:59

It is, it is really interesting. It's funny that you say, like, your innate self is like, did you say gypsy queen? Yeah, I love that because we always joke about how like I'm trying to keep the house tidy and I'll do all everyone's washing and folding or whatever. And then I have gypsy corner, so in always, no matter what bedroom we're in, any house that we'll be in, it's like out of sight, so it's like my side of the bed. But if so, you walk in the room, the room looks spotless. But if you peered over my side of the bed, gypsy corner, it's just basically all my jumpers, all my Jaega leggings, all the stuff that because hanging stuff up, I mean such a bad use of time. So it's funny, isn't it, how we all have these like little we have the gypsy, let the gypsy out every now and then. She's awesome. Pat and Jarlie says about Socher, look more deeply at what the body is. The more you clean it, the more you realise that it's an impermanent, decaying thing. Socher helps break up excessive fixation with your body or the bodies of others. And that's what I was gonna say was that there can be a bit much, I think, socha, and I've definitely experienced this with myself in terms of body like cleanliness and size coming into that as well. Orderliness, orderliness of food, and being too ordered around eating and things like that. So yeah, I think it's a good thing, but I think we've got to be we've got to be careful with it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:25

Balance again. Yeah, okay. Santosha is next then. Santosha meaning contentment. You can talk about this one.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:37

Okay, well, yeah, contentment. So, you know, accepting life basically as it is. Um, and actually, like we were just saying, like, not striving for perfection. So I think it's this one for me is a lot about like acceptance and knowing that, like, yeah, life's not going to be perfect and it's gonna be messy. That's what I was gonna say about Southern, is that we use the phrase get messy. So there's there's that, there's the cleanliness and the orderliness, and then there's also the beauty in like perfectly imperfect and messiness as well. And so for Santosha, yeah, I think it's about kind of embracing that is contentment in exactly what is whatever is thrown at you. Um, yeah, contentment sums it up quite simply for me. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:26

Yeah, it's peace, it's gratitude in wherever you are right now. So you're in a yoga pose, you know, maybe it's a challenging pose. Like, how can you find a sense of peace or contentment in that pose in that moment? I think is what it's about on the mat. And then, yeah, in life, you know, we're faced with those difficult situations sometimes, challenges, like how can you find peace, gratitude irrelevant of whatever the external is mirroring to you in that in that moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:06

Yeah, I think it's funny that Santaceous in the middle, isn't it? Because I feel like it should come quite, I feel like it should be at the end, like contentment, like but yeah. So the next one on the list is then tapas. So tapas, I mean, most directly translates to heat, okay. But what's interesting about this is actually like right effort, so it's about focus or like discipline, if you like. Um and so on the yoga mat, tapas, so we can look at this, that is, you know, the heat. So you could look at a hot yoga practice, a hot yoga studio, the sweating, which it is to a certain extent, is the idea that like the heated practice, the heated breath, so like sealed lips, keeping keeping in the heat is what creates the heat, which boils the blood to purify the blood, right? To like release the toxins. So there's definitely truth in that, in the power of heat being one of the pillars of the practice. Ideally, organic heat, so heat that comes from the breath rather than external circumstance, but you know, each to their own on that. Um, so there's that, there's the literal side of it, that you can create that heat which helps to purify the body and the mind. But something that I was reading about this um was really interesting in the sense that it was about like withstanding challenge. So the heat that comes up when we're like having to stay and hold in something difficult, right? And that creates like the tapas, this like friction, the heat from the friction, if you like, or like that wrestling, and being with that, staying with that. Um, and that's kind of what holding a challenging yoga pose is, right? That's creating that heat, that tapas, that discipline, the holding um commitment to a practice, because there's a million reasons why we'd be too busy and we can't do it, but you know, the tapas, like staying focused and disciplined on that, that right effort. Um, but also, you know, is this idea I think of um like being with difficult feelings too, like staying with stuff, a bit like what we were saying with the truth and holding yin poses, but doing the work to get the thing, you know, is a great phrase. Like, yeah, it does take work, by the way. Like, and that's for me what like tapas is it's like focus, discipline, do it, even though you don't want to sometimes, you know. Um, I think discipline is really, really important, and Ashtanga is fantastic for that. Ashtanga is a very disciplined practice. Um, you know, I it it sometimes it's damaging in the way that it's quite extreme, but I think if you come out at the right time in your practice, like Ashtanga's my favourite style of practice now, um, then I think that can create incredible tap, I suppose, for physical strength, detox, but also mental discipline is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:00

I was just thinking as you were talking. I was just laughing to myself and thinking, tell me you're a Capricorn without telling me you're a Capricorn. Because Capricorn is ruled by Saturn, right? And Saturn is the ruler of discipline, of perseverance, of challenge. It shows us in wherever Saturn is in our chart, shows us where we need to face challenge in life. And through meeting that challenge over and over and over again, it's where we develop that resilience and inner strength. And your Saturn is in your first house of like who you are. And for me, because I'm like tapas, yeah, okay. I mean, like, I I do I do have discipline, I do have willpower and things like that. But for me, where Saturn is in my chart, it's right behind my ascendant line in my 12th house, is behind me. So it's like driving me forward. But I'm like, yeah, you know, if I if I don't want to do something, I'm just not gonna do it. So um, yeah, I just think looking at where Saturn is in your chart can be, you know, it can tell you where where in your life you're meant to build that resilience. And for me in my 12th house, actually, it's about the unseen. Where can I where where can I um develop resilience around the unseen, the subconscious mind? So it's probably quite a lot about uh mental healing, really. Whereas for you, it's like much more part of your identity.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:42

Yeah, it's so yeah. I think if you just describe me, yeah, we've so far we've got like truthfulness and discipline. I mean that pretty much sums me up. Um, discipline is huge for me. I don't need to keep bugging on about it because you've just said that, but I'm very disciplined in yeah, in everything that I do, you know, my exercise, like I run every morning what I eat, like I don't mess about because it's not good for you, so why do it? Like, you know, I don't mess about is basically the bottom line of it. Um, and I have to remind myself to lighten up a lot. Like, there was my newest resolution this year to lighten up. How's that going? Really badly. Here I am talking about tapaz. Um, so yeah, I probably don't need to go into it anymore. But if you're looking for discipline, I got loads. Um, but fun, probably not your gal.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:39

Oh okay, let's move on.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:44

I was feeling so sorry for that. I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:49

No, you're the medicine that he needs. I'm not sure he'd agree, but I like to hear that. Thank you. Okay, what's next?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:00

Uh what is next? Okay, it's another one that I love is uh spedisier, which is obviously self-study. Isn't that the next one on the list, or is that just the next one on my list? No, yeah, it's the next one. Yeah. Okay, so self-study, and yeah, what could be more important? Definitely not fun, that's for sure. Um no, self-study. So this is what we talk about a lot is the samskaras, right? So these deeply trodden pathways in the mind, and it's the idea that when we can study ourselves, you know, that's what leads to greatest change. And I think actually, not that he will ask me, but if Adam Charlie was to ask me, I would put this at the top of the list. I feel like surely this is this has got to be the most important, hasn't it? Is it so learning about yourself is more important than being kind?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:53

It's funny that it's like you know, the fourth Niama, isn't it? Really? Because you could work out a lot of this stuff through self-study. Um, I think when when it was originally written, though, a lot of this was perhaps around the study of spiritual text, which I don't know, maybe there were you maybe it was hard to access those texts, maybe you had to travel to like a monastery a thousand miles away, or you know, where the spiritual texts were kept. Um, or you needed a teacher in order to um deliver the text, especially if it was in Sanskrit, because that was a spoken word. So yeah, so I I wonder if that's why it's a little bit further down the list, and it's through studying those spiritual texts like the Bhagavad Gita, and you know, I think nowadays like there's so many um sort of modern spiritual texts as well that can um be useful. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:00

I feel like almost everything that we've spoken about is self-study. I think we you we've kind of done it enough justice um to understand what that is, but I do I feel it should be ranked higher, personally. Not that anyone cares about my personal opinion on the rankings, but it's so important. I think, yeah, it's it's everything, isn't it? Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:19

Yeah. And you know, like where the moon is in your chart can be a good place to kind of look for this, like your moon is what nourishes you, and like self-study looks different for everyone. Um, for me, um, as well, like wherever your 12th, whatever sign and planets you've got in your 12th house, which is your subconscious mind, can also give you an insight into where and how to go within for self-awareness and self-study. So for me, I just spoke about it. Like Saturn is in my 12th house of the subconscious. So, you know how that shows up for me is like structure around self-study. Like, I've read so many books, you know. I like the structure of astrology and of course, like yoga and things like that, but it's why I have an affinity and um an ability really to kind of uh study and then teach on quite a lot of spiritual subjects. So, yeah, it's it's another place to look in your chart. But you know, I think just self-study in general, you know, everything that we talk about is getting to know yourself, building that self-awareness, because if you don't have that, then you're really gonna struggle to know what your purpose is, to practice these things like um Ahimsa that we've already spoken about.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:54

If somebody was to ask you, because anyone listening might be like, okay, all right, yeah, I'll do it. How how would you suggest somebody actually literally physically practices self-study?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:06

I just think it's different for everyone. I think a really good place to start with self-study is journaling, like a daily practice of like journaling and what came up for me today, and like taking an attitude of like you can control your reaction to everything, like you are responsible for that. So journaling on the things that come up for you on a daily basis, like when did you get angry? When did you get frustrated? When did you lose your shit? When did you feel disappointed? When did you feel shame? All of like perhaps the more negative emotions. Uh, because I'm all about the shadow work with Saturn in the 12th house, like understanding that and trying to reframe it. So for me, yeah, I think you've gotta, it's like um, yeah, you've got to have the awareness of where stuff is coming up in your life in order to, you know, to go in there. What what would you say?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:14

Yeah, the first thing that came to mind was journaling, is what I would say to people. But I think people really struggle. Some people are supposed to really struggle, they'd be like, but like, what do I write down? Like some people find it really difficult just to write about how they feel. Something that I do and I make myself do a lot during the day is a question. I go, is that really true? A thought will come up, I'll get quite attached to it, and they'll go, hang on. And I make myself go, is that really true? That's really for me, that's really useful because it will start undoing my own thoughts, and that kind of forces me to study. Um, you know, and it kind of gets me to the root of where the thing is coming from. So, yeah, I guess that would be like, I don't know, one way of doing it. But it is different for everyone. I mean, meditation is basically self-study, right? If you're if you're not training the mind to stay focused on one thing, then you're reflecting and you're observing where the thoughts go. So just by observing, you know, they say like David Attenborough, you don't always have to get too involved, just literally by listening to this podcast, you've brought it into your awareness, and now you kind of won't be able to not start noticing your thoughts. So it's kind of just trusting in that process, too.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:25

Yeah, and I think it's like go gently with it, like you don't need to read a hundred books if that's not the thing for you to do. Um, you know, maybe you're just really aware that I don't know, you find it difficult to like have vulnerability with people, and so that is something that you want to work on. And the more that you can become aware of that and notice your own patterns, I think it's about pattern recognition so that you can see the pattern that exists, and what can you do to interrupt that pattern? Yeah, you know, take a different action in that in that moment. Like you can't if you keep doing the same things, like Tony Robbins says this, doesn't he? You keep doing the same things, you're gonna get the same results. So, where are you not happy in your life? Have self-awareness around that, realize you're responsible for it, and take some different actions. And you know, yeah, sometimes that can be scary. So, even if you did like one small thing every day, like you know, consistency over time adds up, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:39

Yeah, I remember you said a comment the other day, and like really I was like, I need to do that. You were saying, like, they just need to change their narrative about that, and I was like, Oh, yeah, it's that, isn't it? It's the narrative that we can play out. I don't have time, I don't have time, I'm too busy, I'm too busy, I'm too tired, you know, life's hard, like whatever these limiting beliefs are. This narrative, this kind of music that's constantly playing in the background that is really determining our lens that we see the world in. So just being aware of your own narrative and what impact it's having on your life is huge, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:16

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:17

And that is self-study. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay, the last one. Oh, it's my favorite one. Go on, you do this. This is very much about astrology.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:31

This is Ishvana Pranadana, which means the translation of this is surrender to the divine. So it's about letting go of your need, your ego's need for control. You can't control everything, and it's trusting in a greater power, something bigger than you. Whether that is, you know, if you're religious, it's God, the universe, or just that there is a natural flow and order to life that is beyond who you are. And I think, you know, the thing is we've become so attached to, you know, being human and thinking that we can control everything, that this can be a really hard one for people to get. Um, and yeah, I love the astrology connection with this because through the lens of your birth chart, what you can see is kind of like your soul path. You know, this podcast is called The North Node at the moment, but we might change it. But the North Node is so important, it's like where your soul wants to evolve towards and why does it want to do that? Well, many reasons. Um, and we'll I think we'll do a whole dive into that, to be honest. So I'm not I'm not gonna talk about that in in lots of uh detail right now. But I think for me, it's the one that links all of the yamas and the niyamas together, because if we don't live life ethically um in the right way, in the way that our soul is meant to show up in this human body, but also we don't treat others well, then we might incur more karma in this lifetime. And you know, karma has to work itself out. And when I talk about karma, I don't speak about that in a way of like fear, it's just more a sense of energy that needs to be balanced. It's the universal law of cause and effect, essentially, that every action, every thought, every intention has a consequence which shape our own experience and our future experience. So it's not about doing things right or wrong, it's about energy exchange and the intention behind our actions. So if we're not living life ethically, and yeah, let's face it, like the eight limbs of yoga and the yamas and the niyamas are a great way to great framework in which we can live ethically, then hopefully we're not gonna incur lots of karma, whether that's good karma or bad karma, you know, if you if you want to put labels on it, we want to live in a place of balance and neutrality. And yeah, for me, it's that's one of the principles really of um Ishvara Pranadhana, it's like this trust that we are here to to live this life, to experience it, but to do it in a way of balance and yeah, not not cause harm and damage to the planet, to other people. There's a bigger force at play. Um, yeah. Anything you want to add?

SPEAKER_01 1:42:58

Well, you said it, I think for me, the main word for me is trust, and it has been a huge lesson, and I have lost what I would say faith along the journey. You know, I've mentioned before, but when I fell pregnant with Lenny, I'd always trusted until that point that everything was happening for me. Um, and isn't that mad? Like I lost my dad, and I could still like I could see that there was growth in there, but then when I fell pregnant with Lenny, so not a death but a birth, that's when I really lost my faith because it was not part of the plan. And only now, on reflection, of course, like he's my world, I go, yeah, you know, it was just another lesson, but I can absolutely wholeheartedly trust that everything is happening for me, and even the most challenging things are the lessons that I need to learn. So for me, it's trust, it's this yeah, you know, surrender, isn't it? Basically, it's surrendering to the higher power, God, whatever you want to call it. But I think the hardest thing, and what probably we will leave the message with listeners is now that you kind of understand these principles, the game is wrestling with them and is finding that balance. So for me, like we joked about my discipline and my tapas. So the question for me is always like, right, how can I have that drive and that discipline and that focus? And at the same time, ishvana prani dharma, like just let's just trust and let it be, right? So it's not that we're practicing any of these in isolation, it's that we're trying to find balance, and if we become too tapaz, then you know there will be disease with that, and if we're too like, oh well, just trust and do nothing, you know, then it's not gonna happen either. So it is really now that you have an understanding of these concepts, for me, it's every time I hit like an issue or a decision or something that I'm like, I need some guidance here. This, these are basically my like guidance poles, you know, this is where what I go between or what I go back to, those kind of anchors and reference points to check in with. So yeah, I think it's about trusting, and at the same time, I think it's about um you know needing to take action within that process.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:26

Yeah, I was thinking as you were talking as well, like Ishvana Pranadana like will step in. It's like a fated event will step in when you're not in balance in your life. So, you know, that the whole thing with like falling pregnant, like maybe you were too driven and too focused, and the universe is like, hey, right, we're gonna send Laura a baby because that is gonna be the thing that changes her perspective on the world, it's gonna soften her, whatever, you know. And so it's trusting when those things happen, you know. Like, oh, it's it's one of my greatest sayings, you know. I say it all the time, like trust the universe. Um, and I have had this week, like on a really trivial note, but I've had so much car trouble this week. Well, over the last few weeks, like Steve's car is off the road, he can't drive anywhere. Did he get off the drive? No, it's still on the drive, so it's you know, so I can't charge my car because his car's stuck on the drive. It's a nightmare. And then my my car I took for MOT, it failed the MOT, and the car and the dealership was like, We're not gonna give you your car back because it's a lease car, like the policy is we have to keep it. So I'm like, okay, so then I did like a 30-minute walk back to the office because I was like, ah, like I was just really angry, so I was like, okay, I'm gonna walk. And then I got so I got another car out of our fleet at work, and then I like a flat tire. So I was like, okay, like it's literally the universe saying, slow down, like, and I feel really tired this week, so it's like the universe saying slow down. So today I was like, you know what? I'm not gonna drive anywhere today. Like, I I'm gonna I'm gonna beat you, universe. Like, I'm ahead of you, you're not gonna slow me down today. And I think, you know, I think it's again, it's a more beautiful way to live when you can just see the signs and see the messages that you know the universe is trying to subtly send us all of the time the universe is in conversation with us, and um some people might know, you know, I've invested in some crystal bowls and they cost me like a lot of money, you know. And people are always like, what if you break one? What if like what if you break one? It's really hard to get them insured because that obviously, you know, they do get broken all the time. And I'm like, but it's part of like the deal of being the custodian of these bowls that if one of them is no longer meant for me, required for my personal practice or for sharing with other people, then it might break, and that's okay, like you know, and as part of that, like I have paid for those bowls, but I bought them off a beautiful woman and I've supported her business, and like okay, like the that's in the hands of God of the universe, and that is the lens through which I choose to live my life now. And I wasn't always this way, definitely not. Um but yeah, for me that's Ishvara Pranadana.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:56

I love it. I feel like that's where we should leave it with that all that wisdom and those really practical examples. And you just you do you ooze that, Becky. Like, if I'm honestly, this is so truth, truthful now. If I'm like having a bit of a difficult day or something showing up, I often think like, what would Becky say? And there is just always this like, it's okay. It's like and not just like a flippant, but like trust, like it really is okay, and it's so soothing and reassuring. So yeah, just keep doing that. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:28

Aw thank you. Well, this was a really fun episode to record today, and we will be back really soon with uh our next episode. Thanks so much for listening to this episode. Your time is precious, and we truly appreciate you spending it with us. We look forward to having you join us again soon. So take care, and we'll catch you in the next episode.