Episode 28: What Are The Kleshas? How You Can Use Them To Overcome Inner Obstacles

Welcome back to North Node: The Yoga & Astrology Podcast! Today, we’re diving into a profound yet practical concept from yogic philosophy—the Kleshas. These are the five afflictions, or mental and emotional obstacles, that keep us stuck in cycles of suffering. But we’re not just breaking down ancient philosophy; we’re making it real—because the Kleshas aren’t abstract ideas, they show up in our everyday lives, in our fears, our attachments, and even our sense of self.

In this episode, we’re exploring:
✨ What the Kleshas are – From ignorance (Avidya) to fear of death (Abhinivesha), how these forces shape our experience
✨ How they manifest in real life – Why we repeat unhealthy patterns and how we can begin to break free
✨ The astrological connection – Each Klesha resonates with planetary energy, offering a unique lens to work with them in our personal practice.
✨ Moving beyond the Kleshas – Practical ways to cultivate awareness, detachment, and inner peace.

Ultimately, this is a conversation about spiritual awareness. The Kleshas keep us in a fog, but through yoga, self-inquiry, and astrology, we can recognize these patterns and work with them instead of against them.

Let’s dive in.

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You can check out our respective websites and social media here:

Becky:

www.instagram.com/therosealmanac

www.therosealmanac.com

Laura:

www.soulsanctuarystudios.com

www.lauraclaytonwellness.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to North Node, the Yoga and Astrology podcast. I'm Becky, a yoga teacher, astrologist, and businesswoman.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

And I'm Laura, founder of Soul Sanctuary Studios, Yoga Teacher Trainer and Wellness Coach and Consultant. In this podcast, we'll be diving into down-to-earth but deep soul conversations.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

We'll explore how you can connect and stay on purpose with your true North Alignment through the transformative lenses of yoga and astrology.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Each episode is designed to inspire and guide you on your own journey towards self-discovery, self-love, and personal growth. We'd really appreciate it if you could leave us a five-star review at your preferred podcast platform. Your support will help us reach more listeners who are looking for insightful discussions and meaningful connections.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Thanks so much for joining us now. Let's dive in to today's episode. This might sound like a bit of a lofty concept, and you might be like, what on earth is this? But as always, our mission is to make this topic like accessible and understandable in everyday life to our listeners. So yeah, let's dive in. Laura, I feel like maybe you should give an overview like, what are the glaciers? Where do they fit into yoga?

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Yeah, that's a great intro, Beck, because actually in my teacher training, we didn't explore these and we didn't for the first few years of our 200-hour training that we lead. Um, but as I've come to study these, actually, I think they're really important on a daily, like day-to-day basis. Probably one of the things I think of the most in terms of my kind of day-to-day way of being. Um, so the klashas in yoga come from ancient yogic philosophy, which is found in the sutras that we've spoken about before. Um, so Patanjali's yoga sutras, specifically sutra 2.3. Um, and these are five root causes of suffering. That's what the klass mean. They're like the poisons of the mind, they say. So the mental and emotional afflictions that keep individuals trapped in this cycle of ignorance and suffering. And I love that, you know, in Buddhism, there's no kind of blame when people are suffering. There's always just that, like they're confused, they're just confused about you know how the world works and their kind of lens that they're seeing it through. And I think that these, when we understand them, we can really like not feel confused anymore and then let some of that suffering go. So um, if we run through them, Beck, because I think what we found is that there is definitely a direct correlation between these yogic principles and also the astrology that goes with them, and how we could maybe look at that in our chart as well to help us, as they say, free ourselves from um this suffering. So if I start from the top and then you chuck in your astrology, does that sound good? Yeah, it sounds like a plan. Okay, I mean, you also know lots on the yoga, so just yeah, add to whatever I'm missing. So the first one on the list, and they say that you should visualize this like a tree. And so there's the trunk of the tree, and then there's the branches. So they say that the trunk of the tree is a vidya, which means ignorance, and this is a sense of like misunderstanding the true nature of reality. And by that, it's an example, like a modern life example of that might be that believing that ignorance, sorry, believing that happiness comes from external success, so that happiness comes from money or appearance or status rather than inner peace. So they say it's spiritual ignorance, you know, so we become a top of what they call in yoga the Maya, which is the illusion of the material world. So when we believe that that is what is real and that is what is important, then we're confused. And that is an ignorance to the truth of what is important, which is the spirituality and our personal growth, you know, our spiritual development in this lifetime, like what we're here to do is to transform and evolve. So the idea is that if we can kind of cut the trunk of the tree of suffering, so if we're able to become more aware of a vidya and not be so ignorant in the way that, you know, not believe that happiness comes from those external wealth, status, relationship themes, and instead comes from our spiritual connection and development. If we were to understand that, then we almost cut the tree of suffering so that we don't have to experience the other branches that come off it. So that is a really important one. Um, what would you say to that, Beck?

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Yeah, I feel like I know we're going to talk about individual planets, I feel, as we go through and how they relate, but I feel in a way, astrology for me has been the thing that really has opened this up for me even more, you know, because it's like you can see your soul's intention crystallized in this map of the sky uh before you incarnated. So for me, it sort of removes that attachment that you might have to, in a way, to the physical world and believing like that is the only thing that matters. Um and I I I've said this before, but it's like if everyone to do were to do the work on their chakras and their energy centers, you know, that is the thing that we take forward out of the human body when we when we pass into the afterlife, and that's almost the thing that you're gonna judge yourself on, rather than yeah, like you know, you're not gonna care at that point that you had a mansion and yeah, like a Ferrari or something like that. It doesn't matter, so yeah, I think you know it really fits in with that overall framework of astrology for me.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

It does, and it's what you said before as well about you know, if people went to the gym as much as they like worked on their chakras, like how much better would the world be? You know, we like spend so much time working out physically, but how much time do we spend working on ourselves kind of spiritually, um emotionally, getting to know ourselves, and that that's the really important thing. I think that connects so directly, doesn't it, to our episode on appearance and this kind of crisis that we're in with you know, botox and eating disorders and stuff like that. So, yeah, just really hammers home that idea that that stuff is is a confusion, like that is the suffering ultimately. And if we can cut that trunk of the tree and realize that you know, our spiritual development overrides all of that, as that's what we're taking forward, then you know that that frees us from that. Yeah, absolutely. So, what about the planet Speck? How do they relate, would you say, to Avidia?

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Well, I think Avidia, you know, in a way, it is also represents like a connection to the divine, doesn't it? And spirit and beyond. So the planet that represents this is actually the planet that we talked about on last week's episode, which is Neptune. Um, Neptune is the planet that kind of indicates a connection to God, it dissolves boundaries, and ultimately that's what we're talking about with Avidia. You know, if we see ourselves as separate and so um kind of connected to the material world, this is how we end up with so many people suffering in the world, and then you know, you've got billionaires, you know, like that gap is so big. Whereas if if we're more connected to God or the universe, how whatever you want to call it, and whatever is beyond this 3D physical reality that we're living in, then ultimately we're more connected to each other because we all come from the same source. So Neptune represents that, and the other thing that Neptune represents, wherever it might be in your birth chart and wherever it is in the sky, is um illusion. Neptune can represent illusion. So in last week's episode, we talked about how Neptune is just about to move out of Pisces and into Aries on the 30th of March and the shift and the sort of change that will bring. And you know, I would encourage people to go back and listen to that episode around that if they haven't already, but also look at where Neptune is in your chart. Like if you've got a strong Neptune, um, or whatever sign Neptune is sitting is sitting in for you, is going to kind of indicate your connection to spirituality. And of course, Neptune is this generational planet, it spends 14 years in every sign. So for me, I was of the generation of Neptune and Sagittarius, and Sagittarius is like this sign of the spiritual seeker, is very optimistic and it can be idealistic. So, you know, the sign of Sagittarius is the sign of the archer shooting for the moon and Neptune being there for me, you know, probably means that my views, well, I know they are like very idealistic and optimistic, and you know what a perfect world would look like. And you know, there are benefits to that, but there are also uh cons as well, right? Because yeah, you you can just be too idealistic and not realistic about what's achievable right now. And I also talked about in the last episode how Neptune in Pisces generation of children, which is, you know, our children, have the potential to be the most spiritually connected children that have you know walked this earth for 164 years, but it can also mean like the shadow of that we've seen the rise of social media, um online gaming, because Neptune can make us want to disassociate with reality as well, and think about that, you know, through this lens of NVIDIA. If we're disconnected from reality by putting ourselves in a virtual reality, then you know, we're just not facing the suffering, we're not facing the reality of the problem. Yeah, we found a way around it, not suffering, and so this is one of the um wounds that I really feel our children are gonna have to work through as they get older because of the rise of technology, which is you know so prevalent at the moment.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

It's so interesting because we know from some of our previous episodes that we've done when we've been looking at the yamas and the niyamas, like often the work is resolved in kind of wrestling some of this terminology together, like we're not practicing these in isolation of themselves. So you're right, when you look at a video and you go, okay, it's about you know ignorance in the way that we can't believe that the material world is the most important thing, and that spiritual connection is, you know, the way forward. I guess, like anything, we don't want to go into excess in that, and then you know, kind of you're right, live in a different reality. Um, and so for me, this goes hand in hand with uh another one of the claches, which is Devesha, um, which is about avoiding discomfort, you know, and actually facing reality in truth. And it's you know, trying not to kind of numb ourselves from reality um from discomfort and actually, you know, realizing like the way to go is through, you know, is not avoidance. So like this might show up for us in like, you know, like you said, like Netflix or yeah, gaming, just alternative realities, um, avoidance, addiction, substance abuse, because it's just trying to get out of this, you know, the material world. So I guess, yeah, the risk of becoming very spiritual or you know, into another realm is that maybe we lose some of that like real going through it, you know. So those two need to be practiced together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

So yeah, there's this um kind of way of being in the spiritual community where people say, I don't watch the news because it's too depressing. And I get that, you know, I get that it can be hard and it's very fear-based. But I do ultimately think we have a responsibility to know and understand what's going on in the world, you know, because if we don't, we're sort of shut off from that and almost living in an alternative reality because we think, you know, our way of being and the life that we're living is representative of what is going on everywhere else in the world, and that just may not be true. Well, it isn't true, is it? You know, we still have war and suffering. So I think there's a balance to be had there as well. You know, yes, the most important thing that I believe you can do is work on your own spiritual health, mental health, physical health, and um be the best that you can be in terms of walking your spiritual path and your physical path through life, but we've got to do that hand in hand with looking at being realistic about what's going on in the world, because if we were all to just shut down, nothing will change.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

Yeah, they say, don't they, that you can only fly as high as your roots run deep. It's that sense of like, yeah, we can only really like liberate ourselves from the suffering, like through a grounding, you know, not through illusion or delusion of material things or status, but also being with the truth of what's really going on in the world, but knowing that you know our way of thinking is going to get us through that. Um, okay, so that's two of them. So vidya being ignorance, the trunk of the tree of suffering, devesha being aversion, so one of those, avoiding discomfort. We can see that in other ways as well. We can see that in, you know, some of the habits that we can form, like avoiding things that are good for us in terms of exercise, you know, of healthy eating. So yeah, Devesha being aversion, so avoiding discomfort. So the things that are hard for us, but that are often good for us, that it can become a poison if we if we seek too much comfort, basically, if we avoid that aversion too much. Um, where does that live in terms of the planets astrologically, Beck?

SPEAKER_01 15:16

I say there's a few places it can live, but you know, if we're just to even look at your north node path, which is you know the path that you're meant to be walking and stepping onto, we know that kind of integrating the south node lessons and then moving towards your north node is the most challenging thing that is in your birth chart. Um, so if you're hiding from that and not stepping into your purpose or self-sabotaging or too um yeah, too held back by your south node, then it's gonna show up there.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Yeah, because in a way they say, don't they? It's like, so if Devesha is avoiding discomfort, like it's always gonna be more comfortable to do the thing we've always done. So our south node, the way that we've been, is always gonna feel more comfortable than a new way of being, even though that's our north node, so that's where we're supposed to be heading. So it's about that leaning in to doing the hard things, isn't it? You know, do the thing to get the thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Yeah, and breaking patterns and behaviours, even if they they sort of feel comfortable because they're what you know, even if they're not healthy and good for you, right? We see that in people a lot, don't we? You know, and that could apply to like exercise. Yeah, you know, it's much easier to sit on the sofa and do nothing. Um, but it's not the thing that you need to do.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

Exactly, and we see this definitely, don't we, in like the yoga studio? So, you know, a fear of discomfort. So people doing the stuff that they like, which is great, which is lovely, but sometimes isn't completely truth-based. So, what we're trying to work with is like a growth mindset is going not necessarily what always feels good, but what do I need? Like, what is actually going to help me grow? And that that looks different for everyone. So, you know, it's you can't really say, oh, well, you know, a discomfort pose in yoga is a hip opener, because some people might find that like easier to be with their thoughts and be with themselves and easier to be at yin, in which case their growth might be in like more movement-based classes like Ashtanga or Vinyasa. Whereas if you've got somebody who, you know, maybe the discomfort is in being still and they keep going to Vinyasa just to kind of avoid the stillness, and that's where their growth is. So it's about leaning into growth, isn't it? So yeah, I think just looking at Devesha and going, you know, not just trying to stay in our comfort zone, uh, you know, really just moving into what we need to be doing.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah, and the other place that this will show up in your chart is your Saturn position. Saturn represents uh almost like where we need to parent ourselves. It's a planet of maturity and life lessons. And this is why we say like Saturn return in astrology, which is when Saturn has returned back to the place it was when you were born, typically around age 28 to 30. Um, that you kind of become an adult then because you've seen Saturn, the planet of lessons, growing up in every house and sign of your chart. And if you haven't learnt those lessons, like Saturn return comes along and kind of makes you grow up a little bit, and it's interesting, you know, because you have Saturn like in your first house of like self. Um and so what this looks like for you is like there is a lot of self-responsibility there, and there is like a willingness to learn the lessons because you know it's right in your first house of self.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

So yeah, and I feel that one of the things that um you know we can do to move through this, like from a yoga perspective, this fear of discomfort is like is having the hard conversations, right? It's like working with truth and what we've spoken about before, which is a lot of the stuff that I do, which is not easy for other people either, you know. Um, but yeah, just leaning into that, leaning into kind of doing the work and doing the right thing rather than just trying to stay in our comfort zone and kind of living in a bit of an illusion. Um, so quite a reality-based one, and yeah, not uh staying in your comfort zone. So Dvesha being aversion, so fear of discomfort, so moving into that being the way of growth. Um, okay, so then something that can help you with that, actually, I should add, with yoga, is like often breath work can be a really good way through that, as we've spoken about difficult yoga poses, but also breath work and a lot of this as well, like self-study. You know, you know, it's Vadishaya, what we've spoken about before in the yamas and the ni-yamas really come into play here, like studying yourself, really helping you through some of that to start working with truth. Um, okay does so we haven't done asmita. So asmitta, also known as egoism, it's called the I mean trap, because essentially, for me, the quote is always the more I make the world about me, the more stressful it becomes. Right? And we've often spoken about this in terms of like millennial suffering. You know, you see that so literally with like the selfie, you know, the selfie stick, like it all just being really self-focused, and that being a toxin, that being a poison, that being a confusion, that being a root of suffering when we're looking at the glaciers, the roots of suffering. So a smeeter egoism, the more I make the world about me, the more stressful it becomes. So this is about over-identifying with our roles. So maybe I am a lawyer, doctor, rugby player, whatever, and that becoming, you know, really, really kind of fused, over-identifying with your titles, um, with your identity. And another one, like I am my looks, right? So, really, again, just enmeshed, they call it, with um these kind of ways of being. Um, so things that can help with that from a yoga perspective are like heart-opening poses and selfless service, so sever, charity work, so contributions, so just stepping away, getting some space between you, like the importance of self, and actually gaining some perspective on stepping back and going, hold on a second, you know that that is that is a confusion. And that that is not what this life is all about. Um, and you know, like you rightly said, Beck, meta meditation. Do you want to speak a bit on that?

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yeah, so meta meditation is a form of meditation where essentially you're practicing sending love and wellness to firstly you do it to yourself, but then you send it out to maybe someone that you love, then someone you feel neutral about, and then out to someone that perhaps you have a challenging relationship with. And yeah, for me, like this concept is all about kind of realizing people are doing the best that they can with the tools that they've got, and you know, the level of self-awareness that they have as well. If they knew better, they would do better.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

Exactly, yeah. I love that. So, what about from an astrology perspective? Where do you feel like this I mean mine trap comes into play?

SPEAKER_01 22:59

I think you know, different people's charts are going to be different here. But Mars is the planet that generally represents our ego. I mean, it also represents like our drive and our ambition as well, which is of course something that we need. But wherever Mars is can kind of represent like, yeah, that trap of ego if you over-identify with the material world for sure.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

Okay, very good. So let's move on. So if we look at Raja, so Raja is attachment, so this is addicted to pleasure. So this is different when we look at the one we've done before, which is Dvesha. So that is fearing discomfort, so that's staying in your comfort zone, but then raja being attachment and addicted to pleasure. So this is about chasing like pleasurable things like external validation, social media. Yeah. So this one is about chasing external validation, things like social media. Um, so it's like that dopamine addiction that people are talking about a lot at the moment. So trying to avoid that like instant gratification, um, yeah, pleasure addiction, food, relationships as well. Um, so what we're trying to do here is it's you know similar in a way to uh Dvesha in the way that we're trying to not get addicted, you know, not have what they call in yoga like the craving or in Buddhism, this craving being a cause of suffering, like the wanting more of that good thing creates suffering. So being okay without it, so just not getting too addicted to the niceties, really.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Yeah, and we see this again, really to me, it comes back just being over-identified with everything in the material world, and like you know, the world that we live in now is also so much about like fake dopamine that comes from you know, putting your phone on, and then you've got notifications and likes and messages and all of these things, and this is kind of getting trained into our children as well at such a young age, whereas like real dopamine comes from well, for me anyway, like when you feel like you've done something that is in alignment for you, you know, that is the real dopamine, and also being in nature as well, and like really seeing the wonders of the world, because I think you know, like like we've said, there is kind of this tendency in our in our reality and and the world that we live in to be spiritually disconnected, but I think it's also important to really appreciate you know, you are a soul living in a human body, so really enjoying the true beauty of Earth that comes from, you know, like when you go and see a site and you're just like wow, or a sunset, like wow, like that's amazing. Um, and wherever Venus is in our birth chart is kind of shows us like what we value. Venus represents art, beauty, money, love. And every planet has a higher aspect and a shadow aspect, so it's perhaps feeling into you know what are the higher aspects of my Venus placement and what are the shadow aspects of my Venus placement. Um, depending on what house and sign Venus is falling in for you.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

It's funny, this one for me, I feel as well, comes with a need to let go of being liked. So when you spoke about like the real dopamine coming from like growth, and depending on what your growth looks like, you know, sometimes that is having hard conversations, sometimes that is doing the thing that is right for you, and sometimes that means you're going to upset other people. And you know, that not being addicted to like everybody liking you, uh, you know, not needing that external validation, but instead staying true to your path and what you know you're here to be doing, um, and always with kindness, you know, but just kind of letting go of the people pleasing or the needing to be liked on the way so that you can, you know, evolve in the way that you're meant to, right? Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Okay, so um finally on the list we have ab in Vesha, which is the fear of death and change. So, modern example of this being resisting change or clinging to control um or fearing of endings. I mean, we've done a whole podcast, haven't we, on death or rebirth. So we speak about this a little bit in terms of that being a bit of a taboo subject. You know, in the West, like we're not very good or comfortable about talking about death. But actually, you know, they say it's like only when we make peace with death can we make peace with life. Like, because otherwise, so much of what we're doing, you know, is fearing death. Whereas if we can make peace with that and what happens afterwards, then we can live a more liberated life whilst we are here, uh, and a less fear-based life. So, yeah, this one is in yoga great practice, is like surrendering practices. I mean, shavasana, everyone loves shavasana, but what it really means is corpse pose pose. So it is that it's the representative representation of like of death and the cycle of rebirth when we roll over, you know, into fetal position and then we sit up and we're ready to go again. And that is that cycle of life, death, and rebirth, which is represented on the yoga mat. So that's already trying to get us familiar and comfortable with that process. Um, anything you would add to that, Beck?

SPEAKER_01 29:08

No, but I really feel that is such a clever thing in yoga, you know, that it's sort of embodied in that practice that you start off in maybe it's your child's clothes, but your integration where you're coming onto the mat and you know, getting to know yourself and deciding what you want from your practice. It's like your soul entering your body with an intention of how and what it wants to learn in that life, and then you move through your practice trying to keep that intention in your mind. You take your shavasna, your corpse pose, and then you're ready to go again. And that's so symbolic of the process of reincarnation.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

Isn't it just like an absolute representation of the journey of life, right? You know, that intention being north node, if you like, and then all the challenges that get in our way of staying true to that, like the challenges of the poses, and yet the tools that we need to get through them. So, to be able to get through the challenges, we need our breath, we need our focus, like we need a healthy body, we need all of that stuff. Like it is such a representation, isn't it? Um, on the mat. You say as above, as below, on the mat, as in life.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Exactly. And I think, you know, like when we're born, we're not aware of those intentions that we've set at our soul level, right? When we before we incarnate. And so think about that. If you are moving through your yoga practice, like with your eyes closed, you've got to come back to what do I feel in my body? You know, that's why we withdraw the senses in yoga to come back to like what do I feel? What do I need? How is my breath moving? What about if we applied that principle to life and really came back to what is my heart telling me? You know, your heart being that sort of divine connection, you're gonna move through life so much more aligned with your North Node.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

And how does that relate astrologically at the moment? So, I mean, Pluto often representing death and rebirth, right? Where are we at with that right now in the planets?

SPEAKER_01 31:17

So uh Pluto recently moved into Aquarius in November of uh 2024, and astrologers have been waiting for this transit like all whole lifetimes because Pluto takes so long to move signs, it spends like 20 years in a sign. So, again, it's a generational planet. And the thing about Pluto in Aquarius, different planets in different signs mean different things, obviously. But Pluto in Aquarius is said to be exalted, and when our planet is exalted, it's you know, it's not the ruling planet of that sign, but it's like an esteemed visitor to that sign and Pluto, the planet of death and rebirth and transformation. Visiting Aquarius, which is really about collective intention and it's the sign of the visionary, it really is like death and rebirth of the old systems that were have been very self-serving, very short-sighted. You know, they didn't have an awareness of Hasmita, if you like, you know, so disconnected and cut off from that. That Pluto and Aquarius, the quest of Pluto and Aquarius is to really kind of bring that back front and center to return sort of power and equality to everyone and away from this culture that we have where you know the gap between the rich and the poor is so high, you know. So, yeah, the next 20 years for us are so exciting from that perspective. That is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

Um, okay, good. So lots to look forward to here astrologically, and whilst we're gonna be free of all these struggles and poisons of the mind, it's all gonna be in a good place. So, a summary, and then maybe we can share a little bit around how these how like which ones stick out for us personally. So we started with Avidya, which was ignorance, so that is thinking that happiness comes from external success, jobs, relationships, money. Um, the solution to that from a yoga perspective being meditation, self-inquiry, so trying to see reality clearly, and astrologically being connected to Neptune and the illusions, deceiving ourselves and confusion in some way. Asmita, as you just mentioned, being egoism. So uh, yeah, the more I make the mold about me, the more stressful it becomes, and looking at Mars, where that is in your chart for that, and then yoga being lots of heart opening and acts of service, and that meta meditation we spoke about, and then raja being attachment, so this pleasure addiction, so chasing external validation, social media, food, the dopamine hits that we were talking about, um, and Venus being, you know, very focused on desires, so looking where that is, the yoga solution being this practicing contentment, really, like a gratitude practice would be really helpful for that. A parigraha, we've spoken about before, um, being non-attachment, yeah. So practising non-attachment, and then Dvesha, so fear of discomfort, uh, so doing the hard things, yeah, the things that are good for us, having a growth mindset. And we see that through challenging yoga poses, doing the style of yoga that we need rather than the one that we just like, um, having hard conversations with people, for example, and that being associated with Saturn. Um, before, yeah, hard lessons, really. And then finally, Abhivesha, so the fear of death and change. Um, so as you've just beautifully put there about Pluto and all we've got to look forward to with that death of the old way and now welcoming this new way of being, which is really exciting culturally, collectively as well. And yoga, we can really work on surrendering practices there, deep trust, uh, new perspective, and bravery. So, with that little summary, Beck, what one stands out for you? What do you feel the claciers kind of teach you at the moment? What are you working with?

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Hmm, I feel like it all comes back to cutting that trunk of the tree for me, you know, because if you can do that and if you can move through life, yes, being present in everything that you're doing and trying to make the best out of the physical reality that you're living in, if you can do that in a spiritually aware way and understand that, I feel like that's when life changes so drastically.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

Yeah, I'd say similar. I mean, that's definitely one of the things that's helped me the most. I say astrology, you know, having kind of really got to my grips with yoga over the past, you know, over decade now. Astrology's been a really new thing for me to really hammer that one home. Like, I think astrology is amazing, particularly when we're looking at a Vidya because of its spiritual connection. Um, I remember like when I was younger, but like if I'm really honest, I think it's probably the one that I still work with now. And maybe that is part of my placements in my chart but as meter, right? Like, I do get stressed, I'd say quite easily, but I also take on so much that I always have to remind myself, you know, like the more I make the world about me, the more stressful it becomes, and I can see like I've got so much better at that. My capacity I can take on like so much more because it's not about me, like I just get the tasks done and just take myself out of it. Um, but that I think is the one that I feel that creeps in the most, you know. I don't like I'm not really addicted to pleasure, I'm so so disciplined uh in that way, and I don't really have like the fear of discomfort. Like that, those aren't the things that challenge me, I don't think, but definitely they are. I would have more of a tendency to get stressed thinking that you know I need to do everything, I need to control everything.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Yeah, and I think that shows up for you with so many planets in your in your first house, you know. You are meant to think about yourself and make the world about you to a certain extent, right? So I think that's where astrology can be really clever because it can show us like you know, that is the tendency, and even if you cut off the root, the yeah, the trunk of the tree, they can be like a little branch that that grows from somewhere, and I think you know, we've all got these weaknesses in our charts or these tendencies, and for me, you know, I know it's like my view can be so idealistic and unrealistic that yeah, like it's not always practical, and also I think that can make me I don't want to say naive, but I can definitely give trust away too easily because I think you know, my experience of seeing the world and how I move through the world is very different to a lot of people, and it can mean that yeah, I'm not hard enough with people soon enough, you know, with boundaries and things like that. Maybe that's how we work well together.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Like, yeah, I'll I'll basically expect the worst and like cover off every option to make sure it doesn't happen, and then you get your lovely sprinkling of like, I think it's all gonna be okay, and I'm like, Yeah, it's perfect. Um, oh great. Well, thanks, Zec. Nice chatting with you this afternoon.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

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