Episode 71: What is Joy Really & Where Does It Live In Your Birthchart

What if joy isn’t something you have to chase… but something already mapped within you?

In this episode, we explore a deeper, more personalised understanding of joy through the lens of our personal experiences and of astrology. Moving beyond surface-level happiness.

We also touch on how planetary transits can influence your relationship with joy, not removing it, but refining and reshaping it over time.

This episode is an invitation to reconnect with your natural joy, in a way that feels true, sustainable, and aligned with who you are.

Did you know you can subscribe to this podcast so that it automatically downloads the next episode for you?

You can check out our respective websites and social media here:

Becky:

www.instagram.com/therosealmanac

www.therosealmanac.com

Laura:

www.soulsanctuarystudios.com

www.lauraclaytonwellness.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Alright, welcome everybody. So this week uh we are looking at a topic. I'm here with Becky and we're looking at a topic which has really just sort of occurred to me recently. It's been something that I've been really thinking about, and so I wanted to share a podcast on it. And I was kind of writing about it, and then as always, I get to a point where I'm like, I just need to know the astrology on this. So Beck's gonna share a little bit about how astrology affects this topic too, after I kind of explain how I've got to where I've got with it. So the topic that I want to talk about is joy, and this is like it's not something that sort of suddenly arrives one day when life is finally sorted. This is what I've come to. It's it's not like a reward waiting at the end of like this like perfectly managed to-do list. What I found recently is that it has to be something that we choose, it's actually a shift in values. And so loads of you have listened to the podcast for a while won't be surprised to hear that for a long time achievement has been like at the top of my value list, and and that was that was sort of how I lived my life. I'd say like in my 20s and like pre-20s, I guess. And I think that was just the way I was brought up. Um, obviously my star chart as well, but very much about yeah, my self-worth being connected to achievement. So that got me so far in life and got me like the job that I thought I wanted and all the rest of it. And then when I got sick in when I was in advertising and burnt out and dad passing away, then I realised like health is more important than achievement, right? So that was like a big shift, and yoga really taught me that. Um so you know, if achievement is your highest value, then burnout is almost inevitable, isn't it? Um, and the irony then is that when you burn out you can't achieve anyway, which I suppose is the universe's way of kind of going slow down, right? I think it's the old tortoise and the hair adage, is what I've learned in the years gone by. So over time, like my values shifted from achievement being higher than health, and then like swapped around. So health has been at the top of my list for the past however many years. And obviously, when I talk about this, you know, I've had family in that time, and you know, family's really high on the list, but I also know well enough that if family comes higher than health, then sooner or later you're not good to anyone, right? So the the values has kind of been achievement and then family and then health, and and joy wasn't really even on the list. And I'll be honest and say that I sort of looked at people who were sort of very joyful, you know. I don't know, I sort of get these cartoons in my mind of someone sort of bouncing around having a lovely time, and thinking like maybe they weren't very focused, you know, that we were just sort of very different people, um, and and that was just that. And then recently I've just had quite a big shift. So I think it's it has, I think, been sparked by letting the studio go, but this is why you know I'm so interested to hear about the the astrology involved in it too. But I've just felt so much lighter, um, and the only word that I can really use to describe what I'm experiencing so much more of at the moment is joy. Um, and when I reflect on it, you know, the the irony is that I think joy actually takes care of health. So where I thought this big shift was like, oh, I'm putting health above achievement now, and I sort of looked at joy as this sort of um kind of indulgent thing. Now I'm like, actually, I think joy is the most important thing. I think if we put joy at the top of our list, the top of our value list, and make that our focus, it's pretty hard to be unhealthy if you're full of joy, I reckon. Like, I think that's probably the thing that's going to keep us the wellest. And and honestly, the other irony of it is that I was kind of convinced that if I put joy at the top of my list, like something would have to give, right? Like my to-do list would have to give, my achievement would have to give. And honestly, it's been the opposite. So because I felt joyful, I felt so creative, like all these ideas have been coming to me, I've got energy, like I want to like get to my desk and like create all these things that I've been thinking about rather than just kind of like slogging, procrastinating because it's like a have to rather than a want to. So there has been this like huge shift. Um, and it's and it's interesting, you know. I think that health aspect of it, it's like when we experience joy, like we soften, you know. We've done an episode before on Shadurasucum and about like the importance of not being so strong that we snap, you know, again burnout and actually bringing some softness in. You know, when you're joyful, you're not in fight or flight of survival. So you breathe more deeply, you laugh, you know, we connect better with other people, the stress hormones drop, the nervous system regulates. So it's not just a nice byproduct, it's actually like essential to our well-being. Um, and maybe more importantly, like something that we are modeling. So, you know, our children don't learn from what we say, do they? You know, they they learn from what we embody and from our frequency, um, from our energy. So, yeah, it's just been something that feels like a big shift for me recently. Um and yeah, it's like placing joy above things that used to feel like a non-negotiable. So, you know, where I'd always go for my morning run, you know, I'd work at certain times, and now it's like actually if the sun's shining, or if there's a play date, or if someone wants to go for a coffee, like I'm just gonna do those things. And that is so weird, it like fills me with a fear, like, oh god, but if I don't do the work, or you know, so it feels like really good growth for me because it feels uncomfortable, yet it feels really healthy and like a really good um value shift. But it it's so interesting how much more I'm enjoying, like even my family, you know, like my children, because they're not kind of getting in the way of me being productive. Instead, I'm like, they are the joy, you know, like seeing their funny little teeth when they laugh and like all the little things that they do when they talk about something random. And before I just be like, yeah, yeah, okay, that's cute, but let's get cracking. Now I'm just like laughing with them or playing along with them, you know, like really noticing their little quirks and their smiles, not rushing them. Um, and so it just brings this like sense of play into the house, lightness. Like, obviously, same with my husband, right? Like, I just feel like we are joking again, we're messing around, like dancing in the kitchen, like the home feels different, and that's why I think it's felt so powerful because it's not just something that I've been like, oh wow, joy's really important. I've seen like the ripple effects in the house, and it it almost makes me feel sad for like how long I didn't do that because I think like my energy can be really heavy because it's so like product productivity, it was productivity focused, and like how long and what effect must that have had, and like not trying to beat myself up over that, but just really using that as a useful reminder of how important it is to like try and keep in this mindset. Um, and like I'm really aware I don't want this to be like an all sort of love and light message on the other hand, because like life, of course, is still challenging, stress, grief, responsibility, like that's the thing, none of that stuff has actually changed, you know, apart from letting the studio go, which has been a big weight. There's obviously life is just jam-packed with all the other complexities all the time. So, I guess like what I'm quite curious about is like why now? Why, like, why is it only now? And I think this is like the really important phrase that I feel has been the shift. Why have I only just given myself permission to experience joy in that way? And that is what it feels like. It feels like I've given myself permission to now live joyfully. Um and you know, I look at I look at my husband who is still very, very stressed, going through like I think quite a serious burnout at the moment, even from a nervous system perspective, like he's got brain fog, he can't retrieve words, like he's like really his body is in dorsal, like shut down because he's just in overwhelm and has has been for too long. And like I'm looking at him being like, when will you give yourself permission to like put joy at the top of the list? And like I know too well, like I've known this theory for a long time, and I just haven't given my phyself permission. So, my question, and this is where I got to like always Becky, like, why now? And and what do you think this is? Is it a combination of everything, or is astrology always underpinning this? What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Well, yeah, astrology is always a reflection of what's it's the macrocosm reflecting the microcosm. Um but as you were talking, something else came into my mind as well, which is this energy that we're all in at the moment. Um, we've talked quite a lot about masculine and feminine energetics before on the podcast, and we are in this phase of awakening on the planet where there is this rise of the divine feminine energy. Yes, and and I feel like women have to rediscover it first before men. And I was just thinking how beautiful it was when you were talking, because you've said before you know, this image of you with your floaty dresses and being, you know, all feminine, and and like this feels like the first step to embodiment of that because I think to embody joy that is a very feminine principle because you've got to be open to receive it. So if you decide that you're too busy and you're focusing on being productive and all of those things, which are kind of more masculine qualities, then you're not going to be open. It's like not having your shop open, isn't it? You're not gonna be open to receive the customers, but in this case, you're not gonna be open to receive the joy. So I think part of it is the rise of the this feminine energy that's kind of sweeping through the planet at the moment, and we're all realizing how much we've exiled the feminine qualities of being human, let alone being a woman. So I think then you know you talk about Adam, and it's gonna be even harder for him. He's a man, like he feels like he should be being productive and successful. So I think, yeah, you kind of modelling that for him is really, really powerful. And yeah, with your birth chart, you've got so many planets in Capricorn, right? So it's like wherever we've got a big concentration of planets is where our soul like wants us to go to school in this lifetime. So your soul's like PhD in all the Capricorn things, but of course, you know, that's like your natal chart, but then what we have are the planets still moving through space and then uh activating certain parts of your chart, so you're still gonna get your PhD in you know, Capricorn, Capricorning through life of like long-term success, achieving goals, uh financial success, and things like that, which are all like those Capricorn qualities. Um but with some of the planetary transits that have happened in the last couple of months, they are activating your fifth house, which is Aries, which is the house of self. I am is Aries energy. And we've just had Saturn and Neptune move into Aries, um, which are like adding some quite potent energy to your fifth house, which is about joy in a child, our children, you said creativity as well. So, yeah, I think, and everyone is going to have Saturn and Neptune just having moved into Aries, but it depends where Aries falls in your chart, right? So for me, Aries is my eighth house of like the underworld, other people's money as well, and like financial transactions, um and like going on a more deeper, intimate journey with yourself. So that you know, that's the part of my chart that Aries has activated and going on a journey with that. But for you, it's the fifth house. Um, and then I guess for anyone who's feeling like, all right, you know, what what where does joy show up in the chart? I think the fifth house is a really good place to to look for that. What planets have you got there? And what sign rules your fifth house? So for me, my fifth house is ruled by Capricorn. So it's like the joy and the creativity often comes through my work, or there's a desire for me to turn my creative endeavours and the things that I enjoy to do into work, which has very much been like my pattern. Um yeah, and and always feeling like I'm building towards something like creating a I don't know, like a body of work or like building skills has been really important for me. Whereas I think for you with a fifth house of Aries, which is a fire sign, it it is about the joy of being alive, and Aries is like that raw, primal life force energy. So, how can you activate it? Uh, and often it's the simple things like you know, I think moving to the sea has been so good for you, but yeah, being on the beach, being outdoors, um all of those kind of things, and uh another thing that's really interesting about the birth chart is yes, the fifth house about inner child creativity, joy, but then the ninth house is about adventure, travel, like our bigger life plans, maybe that are gonna bring us joy in the longer term, or like they're the dream, you know, what's the dream, what's the um what's my belief system in this lifetime and where's it going to take me? Is ninth house, and then your first house is like your sense of self, and the reason that I'm sort of talking quite quickly about the first house, the fifth house, and the ninth house is they're always in the same element, so for you that's fire, but for me it's earth, yeah. And I I just think you know, your ninth house is Leo, which is about making bold choices, and I know you've talked about moving abroad and like very heart-led um energy, and Leo is also about being the main character, so you know that's gonna be a probably a decision in your family that you will lead, you know. And then with your first house being Sagittarius, like Sagittarius is the optimist, um, often big ambitions, and yeah, like shooting for the moon. So you've got all of that energy in those houses which in different ways are about joy and sense of self because I think for me, like feeling joy is really about feeling alignment and and things, yeah, okay, we have struggles and challenges, but when we're in a state of flow, uh I would sort of equate that to being in joy as well, because you're not looking at your watch all the time and thinking about oh my god, I've just gone to work and you know it's only 20 past nine and I've got to be here till five o'clock. That's not being in a state of joy, but if you don't look at your watch and it's you know 20 to 5, you're like, wow, where did the day go? Then yeah, I think that's often a good sign that you're in alignment, you know? Yeah, the joy doesn't have to be like skipping around and like with a massive smile on your face, it can be that at in moments, but I think joy to me anyway feels more like satisfaction that I've got things balanced and aligned and had maybe you know, woven in rest and ticked all the boxes that I want to tick without it being like about being productive, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Yeah, I think for me, like when you were talking, you're right. So much of it feels like this like maybe a new level of trust, just maybe a sense of like actually if it's sunny and I do the gardening, like the world's not gonna end, you know, and that I might be I might yeah, be more open to receive because I'm not grasping, like, you know, I'm trusting. And yeah, I guess that's something that doesn't happen overnight, right? It feels like a change in values, but I wonder how much of it is consequential as to like, you know, how long I ran the studio and what I've learned, and then I just kind of go, right, I pushed for so long, and now I'm like shifting into an era of like just trusting that what I have learned and what I'm passionate about, you know, that I'll receive in a different way, and that's okay. Um, yeah, so it does feel it does, you're right. It's alignment and it and it's trust, I think. Um so it's interesting, I suppose, for people listening then, Beck, what do you think? Do you think it's a combination of like timing when planets shift, or do you think it's something that you can cultivate from a mindset? What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 19:50

I think you're what you have in your chart is going to give you a natural propensity for, I don't know if you want to call it joy. It could, you know, because if also if you have like a lot of challenge in your chart, we all have some challenge, but if you've got a lot of um challenge, for instance, I have Saturn in my first house, my sense of self. And Saturn can bring restriction. And I've been writing recently, actually, uh, for the book that I'm writing about how I always had that kind of I'll be happy when mentality. And Saturn is like delayed gratification. So I was never, as a consequence, I was never happy with what I looked like, with my weight, with how much money I had in the bank, whatever. You name it, I wasn't satisfied with it. So for me, there isn't, and having Capricorn rule your fifth house means you're quite a serious person, you know. Um and then the thing is with having Saturn in my first house is like you mature into that energy. So then in the latter, you know, say beyond 35, maybe like after my Saturn return, and then maybe when I'd had my first child, I don't know, something around that Saturn softened, or I matured into it, and I had a realization partly through finding yoga was one of the tools that helped me do it. But yeah, about feeling joy and yeah, because how I'd kind of functioned up until that point is actually feeling quite numb a lot of the time and not really feeling my feelings at all. Uh because I was so focused on work and all the things that I had to do. Um so for me, like the first step was feeling my feelings. So I think to answer your question, you know, there's gonna be things in your chart that mean you have an a more natural ability to find joy. And I think we talked about this when we did the happiness episode. Do you remember where you were saying only a certain percentage of um whether you are able to feel happy or not? Some of it is genetic, and some of it isn't it. 40% is genetic. So maybe that's like the 40% that shows up in your chart or something. Um, because as with all of the planets, we can start to access the higher frequencies of those planets, but maybe we've got to learn some lessons to get there. Um, and then the transits themselves are gonna cause us to feel different things. Um so for you, it's like where Saturn is at the moment is in just gone into Aries in your fifth house. So you know, Saturn can be about restriction, but actually Saturn is not very uh at home in Areas, it's kind of the opposite air energy because. Aries energy is like fire and fast and beginnings, and Saturn is about slowing down restriction. So the two energies don't go together very well. So it feels like that Saturn, in a way, is allowing you to understand this kind of maturity around joy that you have to choose it. And so therefore you're you know you're you're able to access it. Um but yeah, it's gonna depend for other people like where Aries is. But you know, the sort of benefic planets are planets like Venus uh and Jupiter, so whether they wherever they're activating in our chart uh are gonna bring us different things as well. Venus very much relates to things that you might naturally associate with joy, like love, art, beauty, money. Uh so if you know Venus is activating a certain part of your chart, like maybe it's on your sun or something like that, then I don't know, you might something might happen that brings you joy. Um, and again, if Jupiter is causing some positive aspects with your natal chart, again it's uh it's gonna maybe bring good luck or abundance or opportunity. Um, and every 12 years as well, we have our Jupiter return. I've got mine this year, yay, in the summer. So this is where Jupiter returns to the place it is in your birth chart, and that's like almost like it's like your Jupiter birthday type thing, which is said to be uh like an auspicious time when you go through that. So yeah, I think astrology can definitely play a part, and I've read for people before, and like it's always quite tricky when you're reading for people and you can see like I don't know, maybe there's a Jupiter aspect happening, and you're like, this could mean they could get pregnant, but you don't always know where people are, so you have to kind of tread around it and see if they bring it up, and it's always a bit of a dance, but yeah, I've predicted a couple of pregnancies, which has been quite cool. Um not planned with your Jupiter return back, no, not for me. Yeah, so yeah, there are there are loads of ways that you can see sort of the reflection of the planets. Um and looking at looking at it through the lens of joy is actually like a really nice thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Yeah, I love the phrase you always use is like co-creation, isn't it? Yeah, you know, and it's this, and that's what I love, and sometimes I can get confused by that. I'm always like, oh, is it the chicken or the egg? And it's like, you know, which came first? Am I thinking it and astrology shows it? Is astrology doing it, and then I'm feeling it? Like, how you know how how does this work? And and yeah, I think that co-creation idea is so useful, and what we always say is like astrology is the map, right? And yoga are the tools. So for sure, without having done the work and through the challenges, like I don't know if I'd be feeling it in the way that I'm feeling joy now, but at the same time, yes, like the planets are obviously yeah, giving me a propensity to be more receptible to that. Um, because I think it's it's that thing, isn't it? Like I previously I was just like, right, once everything gets done, then of course, of course, then I'll like I'll then I'll be happy, just like you're saying. But you know, the the problem is, isn't it, that the important things are never done, like there's always more to do, there's more to carry, there's more to achieve. So, in that way, like joy will always be postponed indefinitely, and that's definitely where I was, right? Like, sure that I'll feel it one day, but just like it's not now. And then what's so weird is like there's so much on my to-do list, you know, and yet I'm like, no now, I think now, because otherwise never. Like, and it's funny, you know, psychologists call it the productivity trap, don't they? Where the nervous system becomes wired for constant doing, um, and the brain just begins to associate slowing down with guilt. So, like, even if we did have an opportunity for joy, maybe we'd actually struggle to kind of let ourselves feel that. So, that's yeah, the two go hand in hand, don't they? Because even if the planets are all aligned, and yet I, you know, like a lot of the work I'm doing at the moment is my in my trauma therapist qualification, is it's all about this. It's about like life is about, you know, putting your nervous system at the top of your wellness list, like look after your nervous system and like not feeling guilt and guilt being attached to shame and shame being where trauma lives. And so, yeah, it's probably, of course, a combination of everything. Um, there's also a theory called socio-emotional selectivity theory, which basically suggests that as we become more aware that time is finite, we start to prioritize emotionally meaningful experience over status or productivity. That feels like a bit of a wisdom piece, you know, that you just you do reach a point in your life where you go, actually, life is too short, and there's there's one thing knowing that saying, and there's another thing feeling that, isn't there? Um, where yeah, joy just becomes more valuable than achievement. And yeah, I as much as I'd have liked to have thought that I lived my life that way, like the truth is I didn't, and so yeah, maybe it is also just an age thing, isn't it? That you just go, actually, my kids are gonna be this age for this long, like, and just really trying to to make the most of that and kind of fight against the propensity to achieve that feels a bit like the old way, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Yeah, I think I mean I could always be busy all of the time, and it's difficult when your fifth house is ruled by Capricorn because there is so much joy in work for me that like it, you know, it is people are always like, How do you do everything that you do? And I'm it's just because I love it and I get joy from it, or I wouldn't do it. So that can be like knowing when to start for me, because you know, I I'm I'm just enjoying writing or whatever I might be working on. Um, but at the end of the day, like your human needs care as well. So this is like will be when I don't exercise or things like that, is because I'm so wrapped up in what I'm doing. Um but yeah, looking after the human is kind of one of the things that we we have to do, or you won't have the longevity to do all the things that you want to do. Um so yeah, I do think it is a wisdom piece as well that you could work anytime, but on a day, especially in the UK, right, where the sun's out, like go for that walk or go play on the beach or whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yeah, yeah, I think that's exactly it. So, yeah, I think permission for me, permission is like the word that kept coming to mind like give yourself permission, like permission to laugh, permission to play, permission to rest, to stop proving worth through constant effort, you know, and trust, trust, like be open to receiving. Um, and maybe that shift isn't external, you know, maybe it's not about waiting until things become easier, maybe it's an internal in terms of the moment that we decide that we're allowed to experience joy now rather than later. Um, and yeah, I think the beauty of it is that it's not contained, is it? Like it ripples out. And my goodness, don't we need more of that right now in the world? For sure.