Episode 76: Why We Wear Masks | Healing, Spiritual Ego & Authenticity

In this episode  we explore the psychology and spirituality of masking. From people pleasing and identity performance to spiritual ego and autism masking.

Why do we hide parts of ourselves?
At what point does protection become performance?
And how do we begin returning to who we really are beneath conditioning, coping mechanisms, and the need to be accepted?

In this conversation, we explore:

• people pleasing and the fear of rejection
• the emotional exhaustion of constantly performing
• spiritual ego and the ‘healed’ identity
• the difference between authentic healing and performative spirituality
• autism masking and nervous system protection
• yoga philosophy and the layers of self
• astrology, identity, and conditioning
• authenticity, safety, and self-expression
• the courage it takes to be truly seen

This episode is an invitation to gently explore the masks you may have learned to wear with compassion.

Mentioned in this episode

• Yoga philosophy & the koshas
• Spiritual ego & identity performance
• Astrology as a tool for self-awareness and integration

Join Us In Person

Our very first North Node Activation Day takes place on 27th June in Worcester.

A day of yoga, astrology, embodiment, connection, and soul-led activation designed to help you reconnect with your authentic self beyond conditioning and performance.

Early Bird pricing is available until 15th May.

Read more and book your place here: https://north-node.co.uk/activation

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You can check out our respective websites and social media here:

Becky:

www.instagram.com/therosealmanac

www.therosealmanac.com

Laura:

www.soulsanctuarystudios.com

www.lauraclaytonwellness.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Alright everybody, welcome back to this week's episode of the podcast, and we're going to be talking about something that we've often referenced, I think, in episodes gone by, and I kind of can't believe that we haven't done a whole episode dedicated to it because it's a really important part of what we do on yoga teacher training, but also part of our like day-to-day being, I think, when you really understand this concept. So today what we're talking about is the mask, and I'm gonna do a little introduction as to what that means, what is the definition of a mask, and then we're gonna share a little bit about our journey with masks and yeah, what we think about it and how it's affecting people today. So let's start with the definition. So when we look at this from a psychology lens, in psychology a mask refers to a social identity or persona that we present to the world. And it's closely linked to Carl Jung, who described the persona as the version of us that we show to fit into society. So a psychological mask actually helps us belong, helps us be accepted or stay safe, and it often forms in response to early experiences or expectations in childhood, maybe. And it can look like a mask could be a high achiever, a people pleaser, the strong one, the joker, the perfectionist, so maybe somebody who likes to be in control, got it all together. Like it can take lots of different forms, and it's not inherently bad, but I think the challenge becomes when we over-identify it with it, or we feel like we can't take it off, right? And then, or sometimes maybe we don't even realize that the mask is kind of running the show. Um, so what we're trying to do, like always, with these practices, is bring it into light, yeah. Like we talk about, you know, light on the yoga sutras. Whenever you bring something into light, then we can see it, and then we can choose whether we want to make change or not, but we are then living consciously. Um, from the spiritual perspective, and in terms of masks, is including yoga philosophy, it is part of illusion or misidentification. So when we confuse who we are with what we do, feel or think, and the mask is everything that is changing, conditioned, or external. So in yoga, this relates to the distinction between the true self, which is often written with a capital S, and the layers built around it, like ego or conditioning or false identity. And in that way, the mask is not something to fix, but it is something to see through. So we're not sort of ripping it off aggressively, but instead we're just gently recognising that this is something that I've learned to be, but not who I am, right? And trying to really distinguish between those two things. But but more recently, Beck, like you mentioned just before we started recording that this word mask and masking has become quite mainstream recently for a different reason, and I think that's when we look at it through the neurodiversity lens, because masking has a very specific and important meaning in that context, which is the conscious or unconscious suppression of natural behaviour in order to appear neurotypical. And we know that a lot of people are doing this now, so it might be like forcing eye contact, copying social behaviours, hiding maybe stimming or self-regulating movements, rehearsing conversations, and this is all a survival strategy in a world that's not really you know designed for neurodivergence at the moment, and learnt to avoid maybe rejection or bullying or exclusion, things like that. But like with all masks, actually, this comes at a cost, right? So we can always talk about the benefit and the costs of masks, um, and obviously there are benefits in that way of sort of feeling like you're keeping yourself safe and fitting in, but the costs are all often huge, like exhaustion, burnout, loss of identity, um, increased anxiety or depression. So, yeah, so it's sort of there's there's lots of different ways that you can define marks, but hopefully that gives a bit of clarity as to what we're going to go on to talk about. Is there anything that you would add to that, Beck?

SPEAKER_01 5:25

I think it's just a really interesting topic for us to consider in the in the context of yeah, neurodiversity, um, and all these people now that are getting these late diagnoses because they've worn these masks their whole life and not realise they're wearing a mask. So I think the thing is, until I did my yoga teacher training, I didn't even know that I was wearing a mask. And I think a lot of people on our trainings have that realization in the moment, you know, when you read the beautiful poem, don't you? Usually, and when we cover the mask, and yeah, you sort of really see it hit people. So I think also just approaching this topic with compassion, you know, um, because we all do wear masks, uh, and like you said, it's just about being conscious, and once we have awareness around that, we can we can make it a choice or not a choice to to do, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's so important, isn't it, to sort of handle this one with care because we can start to feel quite unsafe when we practice taking the mask off because it's sort of a new identity and can feel quite vulnerable. Um, what has your experience been, Beck, if you wanted to share on that with masks? What's your journey been?

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Yeah, like I said, probably not even realizing that masks were a thing, that I was wearing a mask, um, until I did the yoga teacher training. And I think there's probably a couple of masks that I've worn in adulthood. Uh, the first one I would say is like around being successful uh and identification so much with my work um to the extent as well that it was like it occupied so much of my brain and my energy, so very much over-identifying with that, and I think that comes from a place of like self-esteem and finding because I was good at my job, you know, then you get sort of the uh recognition for that, and then you become even more defined by your job and your work, um and the things that go with that. So I think my ma I think it for me it was making a disconnect that had been there for a long time between like who I was as a person and the roles that I played in life, um and yeah, very much with my job, but then I guess that expanded for me into realizing the ways that I identified myself were how I was useful to other people, so it would be like yes, in my job, but then like mother, wife, and who was I underneath all of those things was a huge journey uh that I went on, and I think the next place that I went with all of that was perhaps and I think this is really common for people when they go on a spiritual journey, is then like wearing the mask of being spiritual and maybe like the yoga teacher, uh and thinking that that meant that I had to look, behave, be a certain way. Um, and I yeah, and I think a lot of people do this, then they'll they'll go down a route. I think we've talked about this before in other episodes, like maybe you start wearing makeup or you know, because you don't need it and you want to be like so authentic, but then you actually start wearing another another mask that is like I identify as a spiritual person, and what I found came with that was like judgment for people who weren't spiritual, right? And I think at that point I went on almost another spiritual awakening and realizing hold on a minute, you know, like I've just fallen into like exactly the same trap that I was in, but in in a different way. Um, and I think the the deeper you go on a spiritual journey, like there are different ways this can trip you up. So then, for instance, like you start learning about past lives and you can identify with those things, but all of it is then disconnecting you from the truth of your human experience now in this body. Um so I think I'll forever be on a journey with the mask, and I think uh and I'm not ashamed to say that or uh anything like that because I I really do think the more we learn things, and I don't know, maybe we do another training or we do something else that we can then identify with the label of that. So I've recently done my Mary Magdalene priestess training, but I'm like very well aware of then just calling yourself a priestess because you've done a training, it feels like another another mask in a way, and so I've really not wanted to do that after this training. So I think the more experience you gain, um, and the more you can shine a light on yourself, the more you can see, okay, like this is another place that I could trip up and this could become a mask. And anyway, with the whole priestess thing, I kind of don't yeah, I just don't really like the authority of those type of titles anyway. And I think sometimes people can do those trainings just to literally get that title, where it was not the reason I did the training, it was to get the knowledge of the sort of the mystery school teachings. Uh, and then at the moment I'm writing a book, and so you know, with that could come the title of being an author. And what does that mean? Like, does that mean I need to change my identity? So I just think there are so many variations of how the mask can show up, and what I've learned is that these are not uh ways that I want to identify myself anymore, uh, and just really observing myself in that.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

So interesting that like reflecting on your journey, and obviously, I've been a part of like a small bit of that. Um, I can just really empathize with what you're saying, and I think what you have like demonstrated so well is first that this is like an endless process, this is not something like there is no destination, you know. I think we are forever evolving, and like we say, don't we? Like the layers of onion, the onion, you know, we're just peeling them back and peeling them back and knowing ourselves more and more and more. And and what I find so fascinating about this work is that you know, it's really is that classic thing, you just cannot judge a book by its cover because you don't know how many layers of the onion like someone has peeled and come back to a certain way of being, you know, certainly not by like appearance. I mean, if I think about my journey in that, like, yeah, I feel like I've gone a whole like 360 in terms of, you know, when I first started my training, I was like very corporate, and then like the pendulum we talk about, like I then swung and was like went like super hippie and like yeah, super natural. And then that's became a bit, you know. I don't know, I've suddenly felt like hang on, am I slipping into like a lack of self-care here? And I've kind of taken a journey back to like somewhere that feels like middle ground to me, but maybe I look exactly the same as I did when I was like corporate, but yet the journey within has been so different, and I think that's where we like it's I love talking to people because you just cannot judge a book by its cover in terms of like how much work people have done on this, and what I love is how individual everybody's process is on this. So when we're working with a group of what, like 20 people on a training, you know, I'll always remember one year we had two chaps together and they spoke of we were doing the mask, and maybe we've mentioned this before, they spoke about like what they did on first dates. They were both, they both wanted to be in a relationship and were not. And one was like Mr. Perfectionist, right? Like all buttoned up, super clean cut, like flawless, and the other was like self-deprecating from the get-go. So it was just like, oh no, I'm useless at this and I'm terrible at that and this, that, and the other. And we were like it was so interesting because both of what those people were doing were trying to protect themselves, and in a way, like both were being inauthentic in some way, because on the one hand, you have one saying, like, I, you know, you can't touch me because I'm perfect, there's no flaws in me, and that was to protect himself. But he put himself so high on a pedestal that, like, either everyone decided that they were not going to be good enough for him, and so he was missing out on connection and relationship, or he was constantly terrified that if he was honest, they'd be so far to fall that he then couldn't be authentic, and if he did have relationships, they were inauthentic relationships and didn't last because eventually you realize that you know no one's a superhero and no one's perfect. So that method did not work, and then you know, on the other hand, you have the person that self-deprecates from the get-go because you know, if they put themselves flat on the ground, there's nowhere to fall, right? You can't hurt me because I'm already hurting myself more than anyone, so in that way I'm safe, right? And it's really interesting how there is not a one size fits all approach to this, it is simply about awareness, as you say, of like, where am I right now on this scale? You know, actually, for that one person, it was about self-deprecating a little bit less and like just being a little bit more honest. Like, actually, yeah, I'm all right at some of this stuff, but like, you know, I'm no good at all that or whatever. And the other person, again, like, no, of course they're not perfect, and like being being honest about what they struggle with. And so for me, it's always like the truth will set you free, but you have to be brave enough to be honest, like with yourself and then with other people. Um, so you know, sometimes we use the example of like when people get qualified a bit like what you're talking about with your priestess training. You know, you'll often see, I see at the end of an email, it's like, you know, Joe Bloggs, PhD, UNT, you this, that, that, that, like, and that the you know, the prefixes at the end of the name just endless because why? Because maybe they're trying to prove that they're intelligent or they're highly qualified, or maybe they're just very proud of everything that they've achieved. And I don't think either is right or wrong. You know, on our training, there would be somebody who would be has maybe never been allowed to take up space or you know, shine or be seen. And so for them, like, yeah, maybe they need to start putting their title forward a little bit and allowing themselves to be seen. And another person that maybe, you know, has been shouting about their titles all their life and actually their balance would be, you know, being okay without that might be a case of taking it off. And so it isn't like one thing is best for everybody, it's a case of where am I on this journey? And honestly, how dependent am I on these things that I'm using to upkeep a mask? And what could I do to practice uh not being so dependent on that, loosening the grip of the mask and how much I need it to be able to live more authentically. Because I guess what I worry about in terms of the dangers of the mask, and is what we see, is what we see time and time again on these trainings and these autoimmune diseases, you know, is burnout, is the body keeping the score, and chronic fatigue, um, you know, ME, all of these sorts of things that can start, we start the body starts to attack itself because it's exhausted. And and there's only so many hours of a day that we can pretend to be something that we're not, and and ultimately, you know, the body's gonna keep a score on that. And so for me, like when people come into the training and they're like presenting as you know, having it all together or perfect or all the other end of the scale, like the red flag for me is like, you know, how how can we bring you back into health? Like, how can we bring you into ease within yourself, like really genuinely feeling at ease with yourself mentally, so that the body then comes into ease physically, and that's where like we move from this is like an interesting conversation in terms of psychology and what we can try to do and try not to do, and then I always feel like it's like it becomes a little bit more serious or important when you go, Yeah, but the body really does keep the score on this stuff, and having a mask is absolutely exhausting, and so I think it's really important work. Um, and it's definitely, I mean, well, I obviously talk about that with passion because that's absolutely what I was doing when I was in advertising, you know, pretending that I was this, I don't know, high flyer, organised, like confident person. And I look back and I was like, my early 20s, a kid, I had no idea what I was doing, like terrified to get the taxi to the presentation, with stand up, present super confidently, but inside was absolutely terrified. Like, yeah, on the outside, I would look like I had it all together and I was that person I was pretending to be, but on the inside, like I felt like a fraud. And I will always remember reading this script that one of the creators had done and just sweating profusely because as I was reading the script and people were watching me read it, I'm thinking they can see that I've got no idea what I'm doing, and I just felt like a fraud all the time. Now, people call that imposter syndrome, and yeah, arguably I could have worked on that to feel like I was worthy to be there, but for me it was alignment. It was like I just didn't want to be doing that stuff, and living more authentically meant that I came out of burnout because I think what I see time and time again is that some people are burning out, not because their diary is packed, their diary actually isn't packed, they're just not living in alignment, they're not living authentically the life that they want to live, and that is gonna burn them out. Um, and that's that's absolutely what happened to me. So, yeah, so many important things that you said there, Beck. And I think like we can really resonate with what shows up on the training in that way as well, can't we?

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Absolutely. And something I was just thinking about as you were talking was how like truth is the highest frequency, the highest vibration that exists is truth. It's higher than love, like on the on the spectrum of frequency. So if for whatever reason we are our vibration takes us away, our work, our life takes us away from truth, then our vibration is gonna drop from its natural frequency. Whether that is because we are wearing a mask or we are misaligned in the work that we're doing, or like you said, often it's not about the diary being packed out, it's just the level of energy that it takes to do something that is not in alignment, then of course there's gonna be a link then to illness, like mental, emotional, physical. We have talked before about how all this is connected, and you did your episode about how the body keeps the score. So, yeah, I think if you are wearing a mask or being forced to wear a mask because you're living out of alignment, then yeah, it does catch up with you eventually.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

And and all sort of perfectly designed, right? Like it's not the body uh like going against you, it's actually the body trying to help you, trying to protect you, trying to force you to slow down so that you can make change, so that you can get back on path, right? Um, and I think obviously we've got our episode on Dharma, which is one of our most popular episodes because I think it's so important for people to understand their true gift, their purpose. You know, the reason that our heart beats without us doing anything is because we are here for a reason. We have got a gift to give. And, you know, by the body just making something hard for us to keep doing just means that hopefully it pushes us onto the path that we're meant to be doing if we can listen to our heart, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Yeah, and we can link that back to astrology, you know, with yourself. Node and your north node, if you are like living out your south node constantly, and it's when you move to your north node, when you think about your north node, it's not about abandoning your your south node, but actually acknowledging it, recognising it as an important part of your chart, and but moving to a higher aspect of embodiment there and moving towards your north node, which is gonna be the thing that feels the hardest. So when I think about my south node in Pisces in the seventh house, if I were to constantly be operating from that place in my chart, which would be about compassion, putting other people first all of the time, listening to other people more than I listen to my own wants and needs and desires, um, and not having boundaries, yeah, like I would not be in a high vibration, I'd probably get sick. And if I am to sort of fulfil my north node, which is in my first house of self, then in some ways it it does mean actually trying on different identities and seeing what fits, but not over identifying with them. Um but you know, my north node is very much about not listening to other people as much as I you know, maybe I have done in past lives, or it's just that energetic kind of propensity that I've come in with in this lifetime to be more inclined to listen to other people than to my own heart, my own thoughts um and my own desires. Yeah, that's that does feel uncomfortable for me to do. Um but the more that you practice it, the easier it becomes, and the masks come about uh because it feels too difficult to move towards your north node. So, you know, like being successful in what I was already doing, which was about being of value to other people, you know, it's very south node. But what if I who am I underneath that? Um, is like a very north node in the first house question, anyway. Uh, but just stop identifying my if I had to kind of sum up what moving away from my south node looks like in this lifetime, it's it's sort of stop identifying self-worth with what other people think and need.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

And I think that's where the astrology in our birth charts are like integral to this process because it can be really difficult. Anyway, this is what I've experienced to distinguish uh like when something feels uncomfortable, is that because it's something that I need to practice and it's good for me, or is it because it's something that I should be moving away from? So, like when I have my birth chart, then I have an awareness of what I should be moving towards, even though it feels hard and what I actually could be moving away from, um, which can be really difficult to feel, I think. You know, when when you're sort of practicing that like feeling what is right for me and feeling what isn't right for me in my heart, when it feels difficult or it feels hard or it feels scary because it feels new and it feels unfamiliar, there can be that tendency to go, okay. I'm just gonna lean away from things, I'm gonna trust how I feel. And actually, maybe that's where you need to be. And I think your birth chart really supports you know some answers on that, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Yeah, it definitely does. Um, I think without it, I would still be searching so much more and trying to make sense of things. So it's definitely allowed me to uh make sense of things in my life and and my direction. And I think also, you know, you've got to be even careful with things like astrology in terms of wearing a mask, because you know, I've heard people say things like, Well, yeah, I'm a Virgo, so that means X, Y, and Z and I can't possibly do that. Like, astrology is just not meant to be used in that way, uh, in terms of it in and of itself becoming a mask and like um reinforcing limiting beliefs. It's like absolutely not. We are all all 12 signs, just in different ways and and different quantities, and it's very likely the thing that you're saying, I can't possibly do that because of X, Y, and Z is in some way like the very thing that you need to do.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Exactly. I think this is all a practice of loosening the grip on like attachment to identities, right? And we see this so often, whether it's your star sign, or you know, whether it's well, I'm a perfectionist, so this, or I'm a control freak, so this, or you know, some people come in and just say the most awful things about themselves, you know, I'm a moody cow, or I'm a miserable this, or you know, I'm a menopause or that. And there's like all these titles, and it's this over-identification with these titles that just feels too permanent and dangerous. And I think you know, that can be in job titles too, you know, when we get attached to being the GP or being the athlete and then the career-ending injury, and then the who am I crisis because we've been made redundant. The whole process is about loosening the grip on the attachment to these identities and yeah, dissolving, dissolving that. I mean, yoga has some really brilliant frameworks. So some of the ancient texts talk about Purusha. So Purusha is our pure awareness, it's the witnessing consciousness, which is kind of what we're talking about. It's the ability to like think about what we think about, to kind of see what we're seeing, like that process of observing self. Um, whereas the Atman is often described as the true self or our soul. So you have this changing awareness and you have the unchanging awareness. So it's like everything else, our personality, our roles, our emotions, our identities, our stories, they're all about what we call prakriti, which is the changing world of nature and experience. Like it everything is constantly changing, and that is the prakriti. Our thoughts change, our emotions change, our roles change, identity change, but something beneath all of that remains constant. The observer, yeah, the awareness that notices. Um, and that's what we often talk about that Purusha, that pure awareness, um, and the Atman is the true self. So, in the in yoga, the journey of life is really just a process of remembering the deeper self. So, rather than becoming so attached to those identities that we accumulate along this lifetime, it is that sort of snake constantly shedding its skin. And it's not that the skin is wrong, it's not that it was a failure, it just isn't permanent. And it's when we come to wrongly assume or we could get confused that this is something permanent about this. So it's all about just yeah, um, non-attachment. And and Jung speaks about this in psychology: that the term persona, which literally means mask. Um, it's the version of ourselves that we present to the world so that we can function socially. So maybe that is the reliable friend or the confident leader or whatever it is. And as I say, they're not bad, they they just help us navigate life, but it's when we over-identify with them that becomes the problem. You know, I am always the strong one, or I am the responsible one, or I am the successful, I am the funny one. It doesn't leave space for all the other parts of you. Um, and then you know, if something becomes a threat to that identity, then it can feel really terrifying because that's sort of the thing you hold on to to know who you are. Um so the goal of psychological growth is individuation, which is about becoming aware of this, these unconscious masks we were, and then gradually integrating them so that we become more aligned with our deeper self, moving closer towards Atman. So I think there's a there's a lot in yoga, the frameworks which can yeah help to support why this is so important too, and like astrology gives us that like, well, what are we working towards in terms of like qualities and you know what should we be trying on that's new and what should we be moving away from or letting go of a little bit? And then I guess yeah, yoga is just that constant reminder that that is constantly changing and that we're trying to get dissolve the grip on any of that being permanent at any one time, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:09

Yeah, and I think if you think even about the labels of things like neurodiversity and autism, I think they're really, really helpful in terms of people understanding themselves. But I think there is a risk with those labels of them becoming limiting as well. Um, and I think it's so fascinating the amount of people that I know, like adults, women at the moment, who are having these late diagnoses of things like ADHD and autism, and it's been proven, I can't cite the research around it, but that women, females um can go through their whole life until you know, sort of late adulthood or later on, you know, maybe when they have their own children um wearing a mask and then with the awareness of autism and ADHD, like realizing that's what what was underneath it all, um completely as a way to keep themselves safe. And it kind of makes sense, right, for that to be a more feminine, uh female trait, you know, with men being the stronger, physically stronger sex, it's another way of women trying to stay safe and making sure that they're liked. So yeah, I've I know this from my day job, my workplace, um, but and people who have confided in me about yeah, sort of what they've been moving through and their level to which this has impacted their whole life, you know, like the need to replay conversations over and over and the planning, rehearsing um that goes on for the conversations that maybe they need to have, whether that's in work or outside of work. Um and this unconscious studying of other people that has gone on their whole life and and then copying that as well, uh, and mirroring so that yeah, they don't stand out, they don't appear as different, and I can just only imagine the exhaustion that is involved with that so that they don't get rejected or misunderstood or judged, and they can hold down like a normal job, a normal career. Um, so there is this kind of phenomenon at the moment of autistic burnout where people are just realizing, you know, getting their diagnosis, whether that's formal or doing the research and thinking, yeah, like that that probably is me. And letting it all go, letting um the mask fully fall, and really not knowing who they are because they've worn that mask for so many years, yeah, is a very um what's the word that I'm looking for? Well, a humbling process, but a process of like having to rebuild yourself again and realise who you are underneath all of that, um, and how switched on their nervous system has been in you know, in that fight or flight mode for so many years, um, and the kind of the physical manifestations of that in the body as well. So, yeah, for everything we said about taking the mask off, I think when it comes to neurodivergency and the things that I've just spoken into, it's really not an easy or simple process to go through. And if you're listening to this and any of that resonates, yeah, like getting professional help to support you around that is yeah, I think really important. And I think there are going to be more people sort of training in like this unmasking process that is happening, and something I think is fascinating about all of this is like astrologically at the moment we are moving into what is commonly called the age of Aquarius, this away age of awakening and consciousness rising on the planet. And I mean, to go fully into the age of Aquarius, we have to move through revolution, which I feel like is what is happening at the moment across the planet, uh, and the uncertainty and the difficulties we face, we're going to have to move through that uh in order to get to the other side of it. Um but the age of Aquarius, when we think about what Aquarius is in terms of what it represents, it really is about the collective, everybody. So Aquarian energy is very individual. Um, and the reason it represents the collective is because it knows that everyone is different within the collective, and that is what forms the collective, so it's about honouring, recognizing, making communities, um, countries, work the whole world work together to support everybody so that everyone has an equal chance, like equality is not the same as like equanimity. So yeah, having this rise in autism, neurodiversity, ADHD, all of those things I'm you know, I'm kind of saying as sort of putting them all together, and I know uh they can vary so differently, but people who are not neurotypical, a rise in these people is like almost like what we need to force change in the world. Because if everyone was neurotypical, things would not change, and so this rise in more children needing uh special educational plans, uh workplaces having to adapt, but just a general recognition of not everyone is the same, even though the systems have tried to force us all to be the same and churn out like this factory worker, like um compliance citizen model, it's just not working anymore. So from a spiritual perspective, and this is just my opinion, and you can absolutely take it or leave it. I think the rise in people choosing or incarnating as with neurodiversity is a massive help on the planet, even though you know the bravery that their soul must have to be living what is a difficult life or more challenging life at this time.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Such an interesting perspective. I think it's so important to zoom out, isn't it? And and have an awareness of what's having what's going on on this macro scale, because we can get so into the micro detail of it. But when I think it's important to keep perspective and zoom out and see these patterns and what's going on and how the world is shedding its skin and evolving, right? Like the one size fits all does not work anymore. The systems are outdated, the schools are outdated, the workplace is outdated, like and yeah, we have to, these changes have to come along, don't they, to force more change and for this whole evolution to move forward. So yeah, not easy, not easy, um, especially in that those transitions and those realisations, but but so important. And I think you know, I don't have experience with neurodivergence at the moment, who's to say that it won't become a part of my life at some point. Um, but I think what I have experienced from the sort of authenticity standpoint in terms of these trainings, and what I will say is like the light on the other side has been so worth the effort in the change and probably the recalibration and sometimes the destabilisation that happens within that process. Yeah, you know, rebirth is painful, like they say, birth is painful, rebirth is can be painful, but my goodness, so worth it to live a life of freedom on the other side. Um, and I do like I use the word freedom often when I'm teaching like the mask module, I'll get the whiteboard up, the flip chart, and I'll draw like that big round wall around the person in the middle. And it's like we put up this mask, we put up these walls to protect us, but what we forget is that they also imprison us, and we can be very lonely when we put those walls up because we just put a wall all around us which doesn't truly let people in. We can pretend and we can be everything that everybody wants us to be, like you said, like useful to everybody, but there will always be that fear of but do they really love me for who I am, or are they just loving me because of who I'm pretending to be, and the fear that no one will really love me if I'm truly myself? And the practice of removing this mask is like I always just like brick by brick, just try and like cross one out and put it on the floor and cross one out and see like the connection that then is allowed to get through, those real connections, when you suddenly realize like I was really myself then, and like I feel like that person genuinely liked me, and oh my god, and how our relationships change and brick by brick those walls, those masks come down, and suddenly we have a community of people who are also brave enough to be authentic that we can have real conversations with, you know, that we don't feel exhausted being around. Maybe we find the confidence to do the work that is our true true calling, and we can just fully lean into like the truest parts of ourselves. Like, I'm not saying that it's easy, but my goodness, I'm saying that it's worth it, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Hmm, yeah, and I think there's something in what you said about like the wall that is built, and why is that built? And I think this is one of the reasons why when you go through an experience like doing an immersive teacher training, or maybe it's something else, but you suddenly realize I've been doing this or behaving in this way, wearing this mask, whatever it might be, because of X person or people or group of people. And so I think there can also be when you're choosing to work with your mask or your personality in that way and being palatable or um whatever it might be, when you start to remove the mask and you stop and you you come back to your authentic self, there can be that realignment with relationships and the people in your life as well, right? We see that too.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Yeah, we always talk about it like dancing a new dance, right? Like suddenly you go home and you're changing your steps and you're just expecting like people to know your new dance moves and know, like you're all gonna be treading on each other's toes for a little while, and that's okay. It doesn't mean that you don't need to dance them anymore, it just means that they need a minute to catch up. Um, you know, or maybe you do find a different dance partner, but like I think it's just about being aware that yeah, we change, don't we? And sometimes we have to sort of manage our expectations around what that means in terms of how that ripples out to the world.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Yeah. And we have something really exciting to share, don't we, on the podcast today? Which is um, we've been talking about this for a while and we finally put something together. So we have um a retreat day coming up quite soon. Um, and we're the idea is that we will run more of these as well. So I don't know if you want to speak into that, Laura, of you know what what it includes and yeah, our coming together on that.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Yeah, for sure. So we are look, we're thrilled with like how much positive feedback we get from the North Node, and we absolutely love recording our episodes and sharing everything that we do with you. And one thing that we've been like really keen to get going is meeting with you in person and having like an immersive day where we can just Discuss some of these topics together and support our community in like working through some of the things that we talk about, like masks. And it just became very obvious that we do a lot of this work on a yoga teacher training, but not everybody wants to become a yoga teacher, but a lot of people want to do this work anyway, um, or at least be in a community with people, you know, supported in a room to spend a day looking at these subjects. Yeah, so it's going to be a day of astrology, yoga, and working through some of these blocks that we talk about on the podcast together with you in person. So we cannot wait to share it with you. Um, if you want to find out more, then we will pop a link in the show notes, have a full read of the description on the website, and we really hope to meet up with you very soon.