The Way with Dino Katsiametis
The Way with Dino Katsiametis is your ultimate resource for navigating entrepreneurship, balancing work and life, and leaving a lasting legacy in the mortgage business. Hosted by industry expert Dino Katsiametis, each episode features insightful interviews with top entrepreneurs, business leaders, and visionaries who share their journeys, secrets to success, and lessons learned along the way. Whether you’re looking to scale your business, lead with impact, or find harmony in your daily hustle, Dino and his guests provide the practical tools and inspiration you need to thrive. Tune in and discover The Way to elevate your life and career.
The Way with Dino Katsiametis
Grit, Growth & the Climb: John Donnelly on Building Leaders in Life and Lending
On this episode of The Way with Dino Katsiametis, John Donnelly, Executive Director of Sales at Service First Mortgage, shares how a 25-year journey in the mortgage industry—and a literal climb up Mount Kilimanjaro—taught him what it truly means to lead, grow, and serve.
Dino and John unpack the lessons behind lasting success:
- From call-center chaos to executive leadership—how grit builds greatness
- The power of servant leadership and creating impact beyond the paycheck
- Turning relationships into real results in today’s mortgage market
- How to find your “why” and keep climbing when business (and life) get tough
- Why systems, mindset, and integrity are the foundation of every top producer
If you’re a loan officer, entrepreneur, or leader searching for inspiration, strategy, and heart, this episode shows you how to rise higher—one intentional step at a time.
Learn from Dino and join the team at https://ethoslending.com/
How can we all find that one thing that's gonna motivate it so much that we all are driving for it? It sounds easy, but it's really not that easy.
SPEAKER_01:Hey guys, it is going to be a good one today. I just finished interviewing John Donnelly, and I gotta tell you, like I really enjoyed this. Him and I both started in the industry around the same time, I think it was 1998. Um, and and we have a lot of the same kind of experiences basically, but we're gonna talk a lot about mindset, a lot about just like what's your why, because that's super important. We, you know, you can't really get to where you need to be if you don't have a why. And then we're gonna talk a lot about systems, because without systems, you're never gonna get there either, right? You can only do so much within a certain day if you're doing it all. But if you have systems and people in place, you're gonna see how you can scale from that point, right? Um, this dude climbed Mount Kalimajaro. So there's a lot that went into there and how he read this book and then went out and walked, what was it, 12 hours or something, 13 hours the the very next day. I'm telling you, this is gonna be a good one. So join us and enjoy the show. Hey, my name is Dino Katsimatis from the Way podcast, and I'm excited today because I got John Donnelly here with us, and we are here to empower, equip, and educate loan officers from the very best in the business. And I'm excited because I I actually want to pick John's brain quite a bit today. I think he's got a lot to offer. So, first, I want to welcome to the show. John, how are you?
SPEAKER_00:I'm great, I'm happy to be here. Excited to have this conversation.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. So, John, listen, you you've been in the business for how long now?
SPEAKER_00:Like 1998.
SPEAKER_01:So all right, so you're a you're a seasoned vet. Um you've lost a little beer in the in the process for that. Your your beard isn't as gray as mine, but it's getting that's happening. So I I think between all of that, the two of us have a lot to offer um to the listeners, right? And and just reading your bio, I I feel like you have the same passion I do for helping people. And and I love the the fact that we could be here today and really just you know go through our history, go through the the things that worked and didn't work, and and then you know, pass it on to the next generation and hopefully be able to help others get to a place quicker than maybe we did, right? Or even have the same success that we had. Yeah. So I like to do that by first asking you who you are today, so everybody can really know like who you are, both personally and professionally. And then I go back all the way to day one where you know you first started because all of us, both of us, right, started exactly the same place. Everybody else did, and and then our journey back to today again. So that's what I really want to get out of you today, is your journey. So, who are you today?
SPEAKER_00:Today, I'm a father, I have two kids, they're both in college. I'm a husband, you know. I've been married um 27 years, 28 years soon. Um, I'm a leader in the mortgage industry of and I'm a coach, I'm a recruiter, and uh, and I'm passionate about helping people. You know, I say cliche of servant leadership, but to me that means I want more for people than I want from them. I love giving back and and inspiring and and and sharing the lessons I've learned, hoping that they can make a difference and and hoping that they can can have more success quicker than I did, you know, probably just like you'd said.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and you know, when I was preparing for this this morning, I started reading through your bio, and I actually just kind of want to do I'm gonna read it, and and there's something that struck me with it, you know, and and I'll say that all of us, right, our our bios, okay, they all say something, they're written in a way, but but I actually I started really digging into yours a little bit and and it feels right for me. Um, but I wanted to start actually picking apart I as we go back and walk through your journey. I want to start picking apart each of these things that I under that I underlined so that we can really touch upon it, right? So that I can I can honestly like be done with this interview and say like he's not fake. Okay, that this is really him. I love you know, all right. So here I'm gonna I'm gonna read it, right? John Donnelly is executive director of sales at Service First Mortgage, where he drives growth through speed, number two, service, number three, uncompromising standards, number four. All of them like really excellent things, right? To to be very successful, both in the business and I think, you know, personally as well, uncompromising standards. If you don't have that, then you don't have anything on the personal side either. A servant leader, which I love at heart. John is passionate about developing top producers, which is what I think we're doing here today, and helping them build scalable, values-driven business that deliver real value to their communities. He recently summited, and I'll give you this hats off, Mount Kilnajero. Yeah, that just being a gym. Yeah, pretty awesome. An experience that reinforces belief that grit, preparation, and perseverance, all three amazing things, right, are foundation of both personal and professional success. Known for his relentless growth mindset, which I love and I want to dig into, and commitment to operational clarity, John equips his teams with the tools, vision, uh, tools and vision to thrive in a competitive market. Beyond business, he is dedicated to mentorship and making a lasting impact on the lives and careers of those he leads, earning a reputation as a high integrity leader who consistently raises the standard for excellence. So you sound like you're pretty awesome here, right?
SPEAKER_00:I think I I I mean, I strive to be that. That's that's it. So, how do we break this down and like you said, and prove that it's not a bunch of words, you know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so that's what I'm actually excited about here because because I I have a feeling we're going to, right? But I want to start with day one, go all the way back to day one, because we'll all be the same, right? On that one day, and and where, how, why, when, where did you get started, right? And then we're gonna we're gonna cross through all the the major milestones, and I want to start picking out all of these things that I just read and find out when they all happened and how they happened.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's really cool. You're the first one to dig into it like that, and and all those words have a story, so this would be great. Um I'll just try to be quick. It was 1997, I think, and my wife had a friend in an accounting department at a company called First Plus Financial here in the Dallas area. They did 100 125 second lien mortgages out of a call center. Yeah, I don't know if you remember this company, maybe, but yeah, I don't remember them.
SPEAKER_01:I I remember the time that those were good times. For those of you that don't even know like what that means, the the banks were lending 25% over the value of your home on seconds, and we were all charging 10.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, section 32 loans. We had to disclose three days before closing and do all that stuff, 10 to 14 points. So Dan Marino was on TV doing commercials all over the country. Yeah, I remember that. He would come through every once in a while and you know, shake hands and part of the deal. So, my my intro into the business was this friend of my wife's was in accounting, said they're hiring salespeople to be in this call center and they're making a bunch of money. And so I just replied because I wanted to make a lot of money and I didn't know a thing about mortgages. And uh, and I ended up getting this job, and it was like the movie Boiler Room, like 100% like this movie. It was they cater in your meals for lunch, they keep you there for dinner, there's fancy cars in the parking lot. It's an eight-story building. It was wild, and it was fun. You know, we had a blast. I would, I was doing, you know, calls would come in off TV ads, and then they would go through these salespeople, and then they would hand the deals off to the little branches in certain states. Well, I worked in this this group where we didn't have branches, they handed them off to us. So I was pro I was handling like 30 to 50 loans, you know, in a month. There were small second liens. I had four or five processors. It was crazy. I didn't know anything, I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know how I was putting people upside down in their house. I didn't, it didn't click with me. I just made a lot of money and had a lot of fun. And then eventually, guess what? They go out of business, you know. Imagine that. And so I moved to Arizona and I worked in call centers for like two more years. And I was like, one day I'm like, I want to be a real loan officer, I want to talk to realtors, and I want to help people buy houses. And so I finally said, Yeah, I'm gonna go down that path. So I learned sales on a telephone and and in first, and then I became what I would say is a referral-based, you know, traditional mortgage banker. So that's my short path.
unknown:That's my short path.
SPEAKER_01:All right, so let's let's do that. I'll I'll tell you, I'm gonna do a little comparison sometimes as we go. I I went the opposite way. I when I first started, it was the same, probably it was the exact same time frame, right? And I and I went into one of these call centers, and you know, and I just I had this like look on my face. I couldn't believe like what I was seeing and what this guy was saying. And and then he saw that, you know what he said to me? He goes, Hey, at least we're not one of these companies that puts um sensors on your chairs to know that you know, to make sure you're at your desk. Yeah, I go this is the kind of shit that really happens in this business. I was I was like, whoa. And and then I found a guy that was a real loan huster and said he'll train me personally, right? And um as it turned out, it wasn't all that great, but but I learned, you know, it was a very small office where it was only three of us, and I learned how to do loans and I learned, you know, a little bit. And and eventually I left, went to another place where it was everybody was suit and tie, uh, Newport Beach, you know, high rise, and we were we were we were doing well, right? Like we was like, all right, this is how you do business. And I I finally learned how to do business. But it took me six months to get my first deal, and I can't help but think sometimes should I have gone into the call center and just like hammered, you know, the the the crazy life for a little while, but made money because in six months, I mean, I was broke, you know, it was really difficult. But I also like the idea of the fact that I had my back up against the wall and I was forced to really go out there and and figure out how to get some business. And and I'd say that, you know, I think just on my personality, I'll probably I probably would have done it again the same exact way, uh, because I love the relationships. I love, you know, the doing business, right? Like the the right way in my eyes. Not that there's anything against leads, but boiler room type style is just it wasn't for me.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I would say I learned a lot about sales and telephones sales. I wasn't one to like lie and exaggerate and not tell the truth. It wasn't that wasn't my style. But I I did learn a lot, but at there's a point where I'm like, this isn't a life for long-term thing for me. I was young and I could do this for a while, but I could not see this as a career. Um, but you got to that point. I mean, probably since you've brought a lot of probably quite a few one officers in, there's this moment of that they all come through about that six to nine month window in the business where it's like they're not making it and they run out of money and they got to determine how bad do they want this business. And and that's the moment, like that's where you soul search it and you decide if you're gonna go forward or not. And a lot of people don't make it through that. But if you can make it over that hump, you're probably gonna have an amazing career in our business. And and everybody has that story. Anybody that's successful in our business probably has that moment somewhere where it was really tough.
SPEAKER_01:What what I always say is like, you know, it is do you have a job or do you have a career? There's a there's a difference, right? Like that was a job what you were doing, now it's a career. So, okay, so you you moved on, right? Like you decided you're gonna go be a uh and I always so I do two things job, career, loan officer, mortgage advisor. Two different two different things, right? So you decided to become a mortgage advisor. And did you even know about mortgages yet? Or were you just selling stuff not knowing?
SPEAKER_00:I did, but I didn't. I knew, you know, I went to I actually moved to Phoenix for four or five years, and I worked from working at First Plus, I worked at the Associates that was bought by City and uh a couple of call centers. I started doing purchases. It was more called subprime back then, you know, what we call non non-Cum kind of stuff today. But so I kind of knew, but I didn't know what I didn't know. I didn't know conventional rate cheats and FHA and VA. I didn't know any of that. I just I just knew I wanted to do it. I wanted to do it so bad, I was like, I'm willing to go take that step and figure it out. And so we bought leads to get started. Like that's stuff that people do today, is they'll go online and they'll buy leads and all that. We were doing that back in 2001 and two. And um, and I use that to supplement, if you will, my um my ability to to have relationships with people to get started, you know. That's how I kind of started. And then over time, finally, you get enough traction that you start to build your business, you know.
SPEAKER_01:So were you were you hitting the real estate agents the most, or did you go financial planners?
SPEAKER_00:Mainly all yeah, mainly realtors, uh a couple of financial planners for sure that I had relationships with, I leaned into, but that was it. Like mainly realtors. That's always kind of been my main focus.
SPEAKER_01:So so let's let's break that down a little bit, right? Because I know there's a lot of guys out there that are like, I I want to do this, right? And how do I do it? And and there's maybe how you did it, and I'm kind of curious, like, okay, I mean, it's been almost 30 years, so you know how how would you do it? Would you do it any different today?
SPEAKER_00:It's almost the same. We've come all through, let's say it's 30 years ago or whatever. What I would do today and what I would do back then, I would I have more confidence today to say this because I've been in the business a long time. Um, I went out and met with realtors and I did a like uh some open house, um, not open house, like uh um um broker previous. We did that, but then one of the things I did that was successful is when when I had a real connection with a customer, I would do a housewarming party for them, and then I would invite the realtors and all their friends and family, and that was really good for me because you kind of go and you you make connections with more than just realtors, you you connect with their friends and family, and then you become the guy that got them the house. So I had good success with that a few times. I don't see that happen. I don't even know if that would happen in today's world, you know, if that's even a thing that would work, but it was different to go and put a little party on and have the realtor and the insurance person or whatever just invite everybody to their new house, you know, and invite their friends and family. That's something I did. Um, and then to like teach classes. I didn't teach classes back then, I teach classes now, and that's the secret to me is being the professional, standing in front of a group. I think that in today's world, we have to leverage our time and market to as many people as we can at once. Going one-on-one to a realtor was real effective 25 years ago because they controlled the business, and it was a different nowadays. You know, if if a realtor has five closings in a month, almost all of them are with different lenders. There's not very many that control the business like they used to. It's hard to find ones that will or that can. And so we've got to be very strategic on on how we spend our time and market to accounts or market to large groups of people as much as possible. That's what I would coach, I coach to that today. So standing in front of a room of realtors and teaching a class is a great way because you become the expert and then you connect with all these people at once. So I would say that still works today. I'm still getting people in classes today.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so so let's do that, right? Let's um let's talk about that. I I always teach people when I'm teaching a younger loan officer, it's like, are you gonna go find realtors and be like, hi, my name's Dino? You know, I do loans super quick, I got great rates, you know, I'm always available, blah, blah, blah, blah, all the same stuff, right? It's like that's they get that call every single day. They're tired of it. What are you going to give them that's of value? And what are you going to give them that's going to help them grow their business? Those are the two things that I always try and get a younger person to think about. What are you gonna what are you gonna do? Why would they choose you? Is it because you're good looking, or is it because you're gonna help them grow their business, right? And and that's what it needs to be. So, you know, let's let's kind of break some of those things down right now and see if we can give somebody some actionable advice on how to do that, right? I mean, well, I'll I'll start with let's just get this out of the way. You better be good at your job, like you, you know, and if you're not, you better have a team that can that can do that for you. If not, you have no business going out there and even trying to get to give value to somebody, right? Because you can't fulfill. So let's let's get that out of the way, be really good at your trade and and then forget about it or get the team to do it. Because if you can't get your phone to ring, you're not gonna make any money for anybody. So now tell me when you're coaching, right? That's some of your stuff here. You like to coach. Um, how are you telling these younger guys or newer guys to go out there and you know and meet people? And how are they going to add value?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think the way you meet them now is you gotta do a little homework on them. Sounds like you've done a you've done a little homework on me, or you've at least read my sheet, right? So you gotta start there. So if I'm gonna reach out to you, if you're a realtor, I'm gonna try to uncover some things about you that I can talk to you about first, just to get in front of you, right? Because it's hard to even get the conversation. I like messaging through social platforms today as a source of a call because you can prove that you've done some work and you have a connection and you can talk about personal things that you see uh to at least get on the phone. And then the next thing is like we have uh we have some loan officers that actually recently we've talked about this that will come in and we call it product vomit. They'll just come in and say, we do all this stuff, but it's not effective for most realtors because they may not even need all that stuff, they may not even care about all that stuff. So you're going in there with like this pitch. And and really the thing that I I would say is you only need to talk 20% of the time in this conversation that you're having when you're talking, when you're prospecting. You're trying to ask key questions to uncover the need so you can position yourself to solve the problem they have, right? And so it's not gonna be the same for everybody, but it could be, it could be they all need leads right now. That's probably a common one, right? We all need leads. Um, but maybe they don't, maybe they just need a lender that will show up at their event or whatever, whatever their thing is, or or a certain way they want to communicate. Um, it just depends on that. And so, how do you know that without uncovering that need um until you learn how to ask the right questions and position yourself, you know, to solve that problem that they have. Otherwise, that what you're just the same as everybody else is how I would speak.
SPEAKER_01:I'm writing that down. Um, okay, so actually, really, really great point. And uh, for those of you that have that are you a Todd Duncan guy?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I bring lots of sales masteries and all that stuff, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, it's coming up by the way. Right here in my backyard.
SPEAKER_00:I live in Dallas, so it's right here.
SPEAKER_01:Are you gonna be there? Awesome. I will see you there. I'm gonna be home as well. So Todd Duncan teaches this a lot, right? The high trust interview. And and it's there's two there's the high trust interview with the people needing the loan, and there's the high trust interview with the real estate agent, who is also your client, right? Like you have two clients, and and I loved what you said, you know, you you don't really need to be doing all the talking, you should probably only talk about 20% of the time. So ask the right questions. And I wrote that down because I want to, I think that's gonna be like a good topic for a blog or for a webinar or something later. I I love that. Ask the right questions because if you don't know what their needs are, I don't think you could probably know do a good job servicing them, right? Or or or actually like probably using some of the the uh the the words that you use here. Um, you know, leader, let's see, uh servant leader um drives growth, speed, service. Like if you don't know what any of their needs are, you can't do any of those things for them. So, guys, you know, ask those right questions because you will see that the majority of them probably all have the same needs, but there's going to be some unique things that come out of a good conversation where you will actually connect with them even more, and you'll find that you have things in common. And and I believe, and and John, you can agree or disagree, when you're working with people that are actually a little more connected to you, that are like you, you will see a lot more success.
SPEAKER_00:Big time, but you and you gotta kind of show who you are a little bit so people can connect with you. I'm a huge, you can see in my background, Kansas City Chiefs fan. And I grew up in Kansas City when I was young, so I've been a fan before we got Taylor Swift and all this stuff. But but but the the the the reason I say this is that when the Chiefs started winning, I had so many people messaging me on Facebook and and texting because they're happy for they knew I was a Chiefs fan because we stung forever, and that was a cool thing to feel the connection of people I barely knew. They're like, I'm rooting for the Chiefs because of you, because I put it out there, I'm a Chiefs fan. They see me go to the games and stuff like that. My family does football, you know. We we all get around and we watch the game and we'll all wear our shirts. It's like our family thing, it's just fun for us, right? And so people know that because I share that. That's not too personal, you know. I'm not showing too much, but people know that about me, and so when you have a connection with people like that, um it's it does make that relationship of just a little deeper, and then you know, it's just like you're saying, you you have to connect with people more than just you do a great job, you know, that's fine, but a lot of people do a great job, and and the other thing that I was thinking, I think this is important, is nowadays you're also asking these right questions because you're trying to determine if these realtors are the right ones for you, also now, because there's a lot of them that aren't. And one of my key questions is like, tell me how you prospect, and that's one of the main ones you got to ask because you because that's gonna reveal everything you need to know. Um, how do they prospect? If they don't have a plan, you know, then you know you might have a a partner that doesn't have a lot of business to give you. My favorite answer ever. Years ago, I went with a loan officer of mine through a meeting, and I I asked that exact question, and he pulls out two phones. He goes, This is my prospecting phone, and this is my customer phone. And I take this phone and I give it to my team, and I make calls four hours a day. And I was like, This is a guy we want to work with, he's gonna have a lot of leads, you know, and that tells you so much. A lot of them they don't know. I don't know how to prospect, or I don't know what I'm doing, you know, or I use my database and I email out. That's not enough.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So uh I'll I'll um a couple things. One, we were talking about connecting and Kansas City, right? Like the Chiefs, everybody knows that about you. I I would say in today's world, when you're on social media, you're just you're doing this and you're going so fast because you know, over the years now you have more and more friends, and you don't even know who half of them are anymore, right? So you're just kind of scrolling, and and you're not even going to connect personally anymore because you feel like you're connecting here, but you're going so fast, you're not even slowing down enough to actually connect with somebody and find out what's important. So my advice would be, and and I when I was producing, I did this a lot with realtors and with um clients. I would always connect with them here, and then I would slow down when I got to them, right? I'd stock them and I'd find out what's important to them, right? So I if if John was my target, I would make sure I knew everything about John that I needed to know. And when an opportunity came, I wouldn't forget Kansas City Chiefs won, boom, you know, he's my first call. If you're doing this so fast, you're it just slips your mind, you don't even care anymore. And I think this world has kind of gotten into this kind of stage where, you know, no big deal. And you know, it's like, no, like slow it down, bring it back old school, and and call the person. And I and I bet you anything, the there's gonna be joy that's gonna come from it from both sides because we are made for connection, like we we really are. That's what we're supposed to do is connect, not just for business purposes, but person to person.
SPEAKER_00:I think I I want to share this story that's right in this vein. So, you know, we decided to kill Manjaro, and so the guy that did it with me, his name's Mark Cable, he's a realtor, and we met at a B and I networking group that I formed in 2010. 2010, I believe it was. And so he um he showed up the second meeting we had. There was three of us that said, Let's form B and I group. You know, we probably know what that is. He was the realtor, and you know, so we did our one-on-one and we didn't know each other, and we both lived in St. John. And so we met and we both said, Yeah, we'll help each other. You know, we're in this group and might as well help each other. We didn't know each other, and then that relationship formed over the years, and then that's cool thing that group still goes today. 15 years later, that's a big B and I group that that I literally will tell you I formed. I I took the initiative to start that thing. I'm not in it. I mean, I put different loan officers in this involved, he's not even in it. But what happened is we became friends because we supported each other so much and we know about each other so much that um about five months, four months before I went up Kilmanjaro, we were having lunch because we just stayed connected, you know, every maybe quarter. I I don't produce like anyway. We were having lunch, and I and he's and I was telling him I'm gonna do Kilimanjaro, you know, he knew, but I'm going by myself. And then and I told him I my buddy that was gonna go bailed on me, and he calls me later that day. He goes, Hey, send me the details on Kilimanjaro. I'm like, dude, why you would never do that? He goes, I'm thinking about it. I go, Why are you thinking about it? Because you I know that, I know you. And he literally goes, I just I just don't want you to go by yourself. And I was like, Really? Talk about a friendship, like it was really awesome. He goes, I feel called to come with you, and I can't really tell you why. It's nothing I've ever thought about doing. I would rather buy a new motorcycle. He's he likes in like riding in the mountains on his motorcycle than to go do this trip with you. But I think I need to go, and dang it, he went. How cool is that? And so that is a relationship that came out of going to the networking event and getting to know people and and and you know going deep with him. But those kind of things are the awesome parts of our business too. They come out of this, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but but you said it right there, you go deeper, and and and if you don't, yeah, you know, I don't think you're ever gonna get to that. that place. And I think it's super important that if you're going to be in this business, you know, you I mean, man, I guess it's tough. It it it if it is in my personality to to do that. I think partially because I'm Greek, like that's just what we do. But but it it needs to be in you to want and care for people. Because if you do excuse me, if you do care for people, like genuinely, it's almost like you can't fail. Right? Like there's there's there's a joy that comes from all that and and it will happen for you and transform, but you have to put in everything from your heart, right? Like you I actually I'll I'll tell a story right now, right? Like I I remember one time I was I was already doing well but I was I was going for this change. I really wanted to transform and I actually came back I think it was um Tony Robbins seminar and and I asked and I asked one of the guys that worked for me like hey man do you do you love our clients? Yeah and he looked at me and he was like whoa like I'm like strong word for a dude do you like our clients and he's like I mean what do you want me to say man I'm just here to get the check and you know I want to get home and I'm like all right but then I started really thinking about it and I was dwelling on it. I'm like how do you not love these clients of ours? How do you not love our realtors? Man realtors are a pain in the ass like how many times have we heard that but you know how much money these realtors have made me I mean how do you not love them? Forget like love. How do you not love these people? They go out and hunt for your food every single day and then they trust you with their paycheck that that's a huge you know trust factor that they're putting on your and you say you don't like them. So I I mean you better change that mindset if you want to be successful. That's that's the first thing I'd have to say to somebody is you know change your mindset and start loving on people and I think you're going to find a whole like different you know set of circumstances opening up for you in a positive manner. And then let's go back to value right like what is your value? Because doing loans is not the value. I know for me when I was really building my business there was there was a couple things that were of three things that were of real value that I gave to the realtors. Number one I created a marketing program a gift giving program where we started gifting to the clients a lot like a lot right and and we co-marketed it with the agents so and no charge to them but you know it they saw value in that because there were presents going out to these people and those caused a lot of referrals so big big piece number one number two I I was like a dog with a bone I would never let something die. If if somebody said I couldn't get this deal to work, I would say let me talk to them. I'll figure out a way to make it work right and I'm not going to say that every time I could figure out how to make it work but what I did that was better than the others is I said give me three months give me six months and I can make this work and and then I would give explicit instructions on what needs to happen step by step by step in order to get somebody there. And and hey if it doesn't work it doesn't work but let's not let it die let's put a plan together right that's a that's that's I think a a a commendable you know um trait of a good mortgage advisor. And number three and and you talk about speed over here right everybody can close the loan in 30 days if if that's your superhuman strength oh my goodness that's average that is average it's it's not even a talking point it's just expected it's expected can you close a loan in 15 days that's that's what'll set you apart from everybody else can you close a loan or can you put a how home in a contract with no loan contingencies because you did such a good job up front that you don't need all that and where I'm going with that you guys is this is this really built my business in a market and you know I know it it changes all the time but I love when the market is competitive and tough because I can stand out in the crowd. Because when it's slow everybody can close the loan in 15 days. Okay fine but when it's busy are you capable of pushing all that other stuff aside and saying I'm going to close this loan in 15 days because if you do that will help that realtor get an offer accepted and I was tracking all these metrics for a while prior to COVID when it got super wild and crazy right it was it was 90% of the time my realtors got their very first offer accepted. 90% of the time and and they would credit me for that win. And the reason why is because their offer stood out in a sea of let's say 10 other offers right now during COVID in a sea of 50 other offers my realtors were getting their first offer accepted 70% of the time to the point where they would tell and and I'm not going to deny it was a little expensive during that period of time strictly because you know it was wild right sub three percent interest rates and I was still closing in in 15 days or less on a purchase on purchase deals they would tell their clients if you're not willing to work with them I'm not going to be willing to work with you. And the reason why they would say is because you're never going to get an offer accepted if you don't between the reputation and what he's capable of putting together that extra quarter point that I was in in rate higher than competition is the cheapest thing you will be able to get because if you don't get this offer accepted the next time you find a house you like the the house is going to be 30 50 thousand dollars I mean that's what it was like at least in South California during that market. What what were you putting like we had we did some of this too specifically but what were you doing when that offer happened that set you apart what was your thing yeah so I still laugh when I hear realtors say you know I call every listing agent when the offer goes in it's like first of all let me ask you this question how many of those listing agents actually answer the phone? Yeah because they don't anymore and that voicemail they don't even bother they I mean they're not going to piece anything together at this point I always did a video now in the old days I would call that was you know before we had the videos and that's what I would do right but then after a while I was like man these aren't even work this isn't working anymore. Nobody's picking up their phone anymore. How am I going to get through to them? So I would do a video and and you know I I I morphed into a couple things but this is the way I would do it today if I was to do this. All too often people get a little scared of the camera and they get and they they lean on other things. So I just talked this to some of my people I'm like listen you know uh when you're doing a video a lot of times we do a screen share and we're doing the background of something and I'm like forget that take all that away one big picture of you and look right into the camera and and talk to that realtor and grab their attention from the very beginning right and you're gonna you're gonna do a couple things here you're going to show some presence and some sh some authority which is important right they have to trust that you know what you're doing and you're marketing because you're now telling this agent who you are and how good you are and you're basically saying without saying it you're gonna be loving the way I do business so much that you're gonna give me business. I always had that in mind every single time right and and then I would start off by you know addressing their concerns. And I would say stuff like hey this you know um you know from ethos lending listen I know you're getting a lot of offers but I wanted to really just show you why our offer is a little bit better. I'm sure you already saw in the contract we're closing in 15 days with zero loan contingencies. And I know there's a lot of guys playing games out there with all that just to get an offer accepted but I'm also willing to offer a$250 a day penalty per diem paid by me personally to your seller if I don't close on time. And the the appraisal inspection I know everybody else is taking 15 days right now just to get appraisals. I'll get ours back in five days. So my commitment to you is that we're going to address all the issues and really the only issue is the appraisal and and the loan piece is done. Like I don't even understand I would say I don't even understand why anybody has loan contingencies anymore. That used to be a thing of the past when people would get all dressed up on the weekend and go into an open house and be like oh I love this house let's let's go talk to the agent and write up an offer then you get your contingencies because then you go get the loan. That doesn't happen anymore. Everybody needs a pre-approval letter just to make an offer so personally I would throw out every offer that has any kind of loan contingencies on it. That doesn't make any sense to me right so I addressed all this stuff. And then I would pop off and do a screen share of the LOS right and I was I was very particular about how I did it. And I would always point out the the credit score first and just say like look obviously you can see you know my client has an amazing credit score right so we're good there. He also has and then I would like kind of circle the debt ratio he also has a great debt ratio and you know the the reason why I'm pointing this out is because the reality is I can go up to 49.99% but I'm also leaving room in my pre-approval here because I know in this crazy market if the house doesn't appraise um it could it could you know potentially be a problem but I've already addressed that with our client and we have this appraisal gap strategy in place so that even if it doesn't appraise that you know we're gonna still be able to manage taking care of this deal. However, just so you know we use a local appraisal management company not one of these big national companies that don't pay their appraisers anything our appraisers are getting well paid and they know how important it is to bring the value in at the purchase price.
SPEAKER_00:Right so I've addressed all of these things and and now done 90% of the time they accept ours we had a small twist where we do we still do today we we have a certificate that goes with offer called certified buyer so we've approved them we've gone through underwriting we're literally down to an appraisal and title you know like there's not much else you need same kind of thing and then we had we just did a 19 day guarantee close up and then we paid up to two thousand dollars same twist you know it's interesting that some of these things we've been we've been thinking about these how can we twist these around and use them in today's market a little bit because the market's different back then it was multiple offers over and some of those talking points we had then are not the same today probably you know yeah it's it's different it's different so use some of that stuff today and and and stand out so well and and like I said right you you use it and you you help your client which is your realtor you help them get the offer accepted you help them look like a king right and and you're you're now the most valuable player on the team because they're not stupid right they know that it was it they got that offer accepted because you were capable of backing it up right so first get to a if I was I was always the master of my domain I had my own team for all the time right like once I started doing closing loans I was like I'm not gonna be part of any of this I'm having my team because I need I need attention all the attention on me right like I'm not gonna deny that that was me but that's what got me to where I was now as the company owner what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to have all that same aggressiveness for everybody.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm trying to teach everybody how to do it. I'm trying to develop the back end and it's you know it's hard man it's not it's not that easy but I'm trying to develop the back end to always think like that always be aggressive always be at a place where you know all that matters is supporting that loan officer to be able to go out and get business because without it nobody's got anything. Doesn't matter that's right you know yeah and and and they're going out and and they're representing themselves and they're putting their name on the line and they're putting our name on the line you know so we better back it up. And and I think it's important. So if you're and I and I don't want to talk crap on on anybody right I mean it you know sometimes it's your fault and you'll blame the company but if you're at a company that can't understand that the back end is there to support you then there's a problem.
SPEAKER_00:If you if you blame your company you're not gonna work there very long because you can't keep doing that and then your realtors say I'm not gonna work with you anymore because your company's bad like you can't work there very long. You got to take ownership in it I've heard I've heard over the years. This also applies I don't I don't have a lot of experience working with home builders but these builders sales reps like that's another place we're getting a lot of business we we're like 60% home new construction right now. The the new the sales reps they need us like like you're talking about they need us to help close those deals they need us to pull that customer in and and we're really a critical partner to them right now because they can they can put us on a three-way on the on a on a call right in front of that home buyer that's sitting there looking at that model home and we can get them off the fence quicker than they can a lot of times because we can give them confidence in the numbers and confidence in the payments you know and help them understand they can buy this house today because the home builder those the sales are they don't know for sure you know they don't have those tools to like really give that confidence and so that's what's going on that's another piece of it today it's that critical moment of getting that contract put together we're the we're a key part of that and you gotta understand how important you are and I don't think uh loan officers realize sometimes that that's their role is to is to be that person that seals the deal for everybody you know I mean we're as we're as as important as the realtor or as the builder sales rep or whoever it is in that transaction.
SPEAKER_01:And and and you know what it's it's also a mindset um in fact it's right in your bio it says known for his relentless growth mindset if your mindset is that I'm below that real estate agent because he gave me the deal right then you're not gonna win you're you're not below him you are right there at the at the exact same place you guys are a team a team a quarterback is you know hey he's the quarterback right he's in charge of the team well no without everybody else there that quarterback is nothing right they're gonna they're gonna tackle him and be done without his front line taking care of him right the receiver can't catch a ball then doesn't matter I agree with you so so we're we're part of a team and your mindset has to be that right and you always have to be with that growth mindset always be seeking ways to get better because things change all the time and if you're complacent because you're doing fine you know what that's just gonna slip away at some point that's gonna just slip away because you didn't evolve into something new you didn't get creative you didn't try something new so don't ever stop trying to grow that's the key I believe the key to it is the key and I think this is something I've been really thinking deep on I was on a call today for an hour about this having a clear vision of where you're trying to go is the most important thing and I've known this and I've had some success with it but when I when I picked personally to go up Kilimanjaro it was really interesting how before that it was a little harder to go to the gym and I wasn't working out as much and I wasn't always eating as healthy.
SPEAKER_00:But when I picked that goal everything fell in place it was easier all those daily things that you do to do your business they didn't matter anymore. I just got up because I had to because and then I put myself out there and I told the world I'm going up this mountain and the reason that mattered to me is because I have integrity on my word and I'm like if I'm going I'm going I was convinced I was gonna go by myself to Africa and climb a mountain because I told people I was going even after my buddy failed and I was and I can assure you I was going but once we're talking about this today like okay I if if my goal is to increase my production next year that's great. But once you get a vision on what that's gonna do for you and that that's what will drive you to do those extra things right like and it's personal for every person. I was just talking to one of our loan officers and he's real big with his kids and I go you've told me for years you want to take a cruise with these kids if you did if you doubled your production whatever that number is if you did 20 million next year or whatever your number is and you took and and you told your kids if you do this you could go on that cruise because you'll have enough money to do it would that be enough for you to do all those extra calls and all those extra meetings without overthinking it yes it probably would be but you have to put yourself out there in this bold action you've have to you have to tell everybody you're gonna do it and that's scary because you might fail. But when that vision gets really clear and compelling man things start happening you know that's that's what I learned personally like I really brought it home my takeaway is I as I've kind of thought about this mountain climb I didn't do it for any of this I just did it to prove I could do hard things and and do something that I thought was a cool adventure but what I've learned is this vision is so awesome and so when it when it's so clear it's amazing what happens and I'm I'm seeking that a little bit right now I'm I'm I did this mountain and I'm looking at my business I'm like how can I get a vision for my business for the growth of our company that that I'm so excited about climate kilomanjaro that just pulls us all to it. They don't even think about the day to day and all the little things you know when that's really clear man things are awesome.
SPEAKER_01:You know I I agree um and something that I find happens when you get in that mindset there's a couple things one we've i you know I'm sure everybody's heard like you move the big rocks first and and those are the ones that matter right so I know just hearing you say all this like I could I could remember times when I was really so focused and the things that happened is is I didn't bog my my memory down my mind down with all the things that I had to do I just knocked them out because they had to get done but I also focused in on what the most important thing was to accomplish that particular goal mission whatever it is that that you want to call it right in order for you to climb the mountain you had to get in peak physical shape and you had to do that by working out and eating. So were you going to let I don't know I'm actually I want to ask did you go to the gym in the morning or did you go in the morning I had to because it was the most important thing you weren't going to let anything get in the way period right that that's exactly what it is. So whatever that goal of yours is if it's business if it's to grow if it's to double your business believe it or not it's really not that hard you you could easily double your business when you put your mind to it and all you got to do is put all the crap aside move the big rocks how are you going to double your business well let's see when was the last time you talked to all of your past clients I mean uh amazing how much money you might make if you just called them right and then how many times have you gone and called all your your realtors that you've ever worked with just to say hi right or better yet just to ask for business and and what have you done to grow the business what have you done to go out and and meet to hunt for new food I mean those are the big rocks you got to do every single day and all the little things just don't matter.
SPEAKER_00:Why is it that like we're about to do you know we set goals for next year. We just I just did a call with a bunch of my LOS on a quarterly business plan that I like to do. But why is it that a lot of them will write down double their business but they don't it's it's like not compelling enough they I I guess they don't have the why behind it. They want to and they want to make that money or they want to do that thing but they don't you know that's I've been thinking about this and some do and I see the ones that do and and they're so convicted and I think the answer is in this extra thing like the the real vision of the goals that's outside of the numbers you know what does it do for them that they're trying to do in their life that's what they got to focus on. You know and I know one of our top producers is uh is I know her her drive is unrelentlessly crazy. And she she she just broke a hundred million that's hard to do in today's market off referrals right like it's crazy.
SPEAKER_01:But when you really sit down and listen to her she has a lifestyle she wants she has some investment properties she wants she has goals and those goals are so important to her the numbers just go because all those numbers just happen i I think that's where a lot of loan officers miss sometimes is they don't get that extra why behind those numbers and then they just don't get those goals I think you're a hundred percent right you know I'll tell a personal story here real quick uh hopefully my wife my wife probably probably will never listen so it doesn't matter she'll only listen in this one episode by the way now one episode yeah probably right uh one one time we were having some problems and we were in counseling and you know it was finally I kind of just let it out I just let it all out right because you know in our line of work we just we're always we're always solving problems we're always taken in it's and sometimes I'm like I deal with more by noon every single day than you're complaining about here like you know but okay cool but let's go so it came out one day and and I didn't even really know it but like you to keep talking about the why and my wife is 12 years younger than I am and I got four kids and I said you are so preoccupied with the here and now which I love and respect but we're also a team and somebody has to worry about the the later and I go I know you don't think about this but I'm 12 years older than you. So most people think about hey how much money can they make so that they can when are they going to retire and can they live out the rest of their life and and then you think well if I and if I live for 10 years longer then I got to account for that. I go I gotta think about you know not only how long am I gonna live but how long are you going to live? And chances are you're gonna live even longer because hey your life's pretty good you don't have any stress right like you're a woman you don't have any stress chances are you're gonna live even longer and then I got four kids and let's just face it as expensive as they seem in the early years it gets way more expensive later. Like way more expensive and I want to be the dad that can help them buy their first house I want them I want to be the dad that can help them start a business right I I I want to be that dad that that can put my kids in a in a line for success not just financially right like I don't want to just give it to them. I want them to work for them I want them to earn it but I definitely want to be able to help them and I want to be able to to make sure that my wife is taken care of after I die. And I and I said it here I'm like you know we have if I die you're you're gonna be in such incredible shape it's ridiculous because the life insurance that you're gonna get is amazing. Like it's it's millions and millions and millions of dollars but if I do live beyond a certain age that life insurance most of it goes away I go so either I need to make enough money so I can be okay living past like I think it was like you know 80 or I need to die just before it so you can get the that extra like five million dollars otherwise five million of it is going away because I lived too long. And I go so you want to know what I worry about you want to know what's going on in my head all the time you want to know why I'm always trying to get that extra deal you want to know why and and it was like that's my why like she doesn't realize how much I do love her and how much I do care about how she's going to live and and and that drives me you know and one time I had this coach tell me ask me the question he said Dino I was having my fourth kid right just just a little baby he's like I just kidnapped your kid he said and I'm not gonna hurt him but you have to give me one million dollars if you want him back and you don't have a million dollars right now you don't have any of you don't you have zero what are you gonna do to make a million dollars and I started thinking about it and then he's like I'm serious tell me tell me what you're gonna do starting right now because I just took your kid and tell me how long it's going to take and and I started thinking about it right like you you can't help but think like all right I mean I can I can even go rob something I don't care if I go to jail I'm gonna get that money and I'm gonna I'm gonna get the kid back. But then I started thinking about hmm would I pick up the phone right now and just start calling everybody yeah I would I'd call all my past clients right now I would not waste a second if they didn't pick up I'd leave a quick message hang up and I'd I'd go as fast as I can calling them would I waste time I'm trying to think of the right word because it's a bad word so would I waste time pussy footing around trying to get to the point no no I wouldn't I would I would immediately get to the point because I don't have time to waste I would get to the point so I loved what he said to me because it it was it was at the moment right where my baby was a baby and I put myself in this mindset that even like my wife would be supporting me. She wouldn't say to come home she would say keep working you know and and and if you could figure out how to get that support because work life balance is important and I can tell you all that you have to figure out how to also not be a workaholic and and not give to your family you can't you can't go all in on one direction right like there's a season for it and for those of you that were around during COVID when it rates were sub three that was a season that could change your life forever you needed to put the time in like that's a season right and I I always told my wife I'm like babe I go it's like I'm a CPA and it's tax time there is no wife that gives her CPA husband a hard time during tax time it's just part of the gig it and when the rates drop we don't know when it is but when the rates drop it's tax time like you got to let me run right and and those are the times where you run but I'll tell you right now that time is coming again and the most important thing you could possibly do right now is get your systems in line because if your systems aren't in place you will not make the fullest to your potential because your systems can't do it. So get them in line that's the most important thing if I could take one One thing out of all of the years that I've been doing is 28 years are systems. Systems are everything. You can't produce any more than you can physically do in a certain amount of hours, but with the right systems and the right people, you can produce 10x that it's so critical.
SPEAKER_00:I you you hit on something that this story about this baby created this motivation, and then your wife would rally around you, and everybody's going toward that. How can you find that thing that's not a pretend story that's real for your family or for yourself? And I've just been thinking about this just kind of this morning, actually. How how can we all find that one thing that's going to motivate us so much that we all are driving toward it, you know, in our family, in our in our wife and our our coworkers or what our team. How can we do that? I don't it sounds easy, but it's really not that easy for a lot of people, you know? It's really not. No, it's not.
SPEAKER_01:You know, you I you know, and this is all a lot of personal um experience here, right? Like you can't tell your wife you're gonna work 12 hours and not have anything to show for it, or tell you, or go work for 12 hours and come back and you're absolutely worthless, right? Like you have to figure out how to do all of it. And I'm sorry if it's difficult. I am, I'm sorry, but hey, that that's just how it goes, right? Like you have to figure out what level you want, the higher the level, the more difficult it is. But but again, going back to these systems, you're gonna work your ass off, but at some point you have to start putting systems in place because you can't work any harder, it's not gonna achieve anything more. Those systems so I'll I'll I'll uh let me kind of throw out some numbers just to explain. When I was doing 30 million a month, I mean uh uh a year as a producer, I was working my tail off. When I got to 60, I was I was working my tail off, but I was more focused. All I was doing was like a certain amount of jobs, right? And then other people were doing. Then when I got to 100 million, I actually started working a little bit less. And when I got to 150 million, guess what? I never worked weekends, I never worked nights. I mean, I I left six o'clock was my time to leave. But and you know, my wife will will say otherwise, right? I mean, you always check your phone a little bit, but I I was very strict, I wouldn't talk to clients unless it was an emergency after six o'clock. Only certain realtors would call me every once in a while when it was an emergency, and they would always start with, I know it's family time, so I'm really sorry. Do you have five minutes? And and I was like, Man, I that's I felt so accomplished that they said family time and I'm sorry in five minutes. Like they it must have been important. I said, absolutely, you know, but I laid down those parameters, and the reason why they didn't need to call me at night all the time is because I handled my business every day before six o'clock. And there was people also that did uh other things, right? So you have to you have to understand that you can get to a hundred million and it'll actually become easier if you learn how to work the systems. It'll actually be easier, you'll actually work less, you'll actually have more time left for your family, and guess what? You'll achieve all of those financial dreams that you have. You can buy an investment property. I mean, shoot, if you're doing 100 million, you can buy one every month, you really can. You know, and and and life gets a lot easier, but put the systems in place. And I know you're probably saying, Well, tell me what these systems are. All right, that's a whole that's uh that's that's maybe a webinar that we exactly should do.
SPEAKER_00:Start reading I always say start with reading the book, The E Myth Revisited. That's my that's my go-to start.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know if you read that book or I I have, and I'm gonna throw out another one right now to um good to great. I I love that book because a lot of us are good, but how do you get to great? And and that's a whole different, you know, animal right there. So uh listen, we're we're going over, so I'm gonna I'm gonna fast track past a lot of stuff because I don't know why I kind of took us off a bit, but I just loved talking to you back and forth like this. Uh so so now um we're at the you know, we've we've skipped probably a good 20 years of your career, your history, right? You uh you are managing and leading and and I think changing lives, which I think is awesome. I love to see that. Um, I know partially because of just how you know our age and how long we've been in the business, it's important to both of us to leave a legacy behind, not not just for our family, but for the the industry. That's why I'm doing this. And and now to finish it off, I got uh I had a couple questions. One, you already answered it, the book, the emyth. Is that your favorite book?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I would say just pick a book right now. I would say the book that's been my favorite recently is of the book called The 12 Hour Walk by Colin Brady. I would I would put that book out there. Yeah. This is this is why I did Kilimanjaro. I read this book called The 12 Hour Walk, and it challenges you to go out your front door and walk for 12 hours, no music, no friends, no dogs, and just go. So I did it. I read I finished the book on a Thursday and I walked out the door on Saturday morning, right? I took action like immediately. I told my wife I'm leaving at 5 30 in the morning and pick me up at 5 30 wherever I'm at, look on life 360. And she's like, You're crazy. Why are you doing this? I walked 30 miles that day. I took 17 pages of notes, and it was a cool experience for me. And I yeah, I realized then I could go up Kilimanjaro, I'm at, and I need to do it soon before I get too old. And and that was where I committed to it while I was on that walk. And so that was the beginning. So cool book, it's inspiring. There's some great stories in it. Colin's a good dude, and uh, if you are looking for your why or something, this wouldn't help you find it, you know. If you're if you're we've been talking a lot about that. Um, but I would just throw that book out there.
SPEAKER_01:All right, and then the last question, I always love answering this question, but right now, at this stage in your life, you know everything you know, uh, you're comfortable, but I'm gonna pull you out of your management type role, your leadership role. I'm gonna put you back into originating, and I'm going to take you away from your family. I'm gonna drop you off. Do you have an do you know anybody in Iowa? I'm gonna drop you off in Iowa, somewhere in Iowa, and and I'm gonna give you enough of an allowance so that you can live, but not enough to you know, to to spread it around or anything, right? You gotta work in order to survive now. What are you gonna do? And you gotta make a million bucks. I gotta make a million bucks. What are you gonna do?
SPEAKER_00:I love it. I'm gonna go with what I know. I'm staying mortgage because that's what I know, right? Um first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna pull the list of all the producers. I'm gonna figure out who they are. I'm gonna go reach out to them. I'm gonna put together some classes, I'm gonna figure out what the community needs. I'm gonna go do everything I know to do today. I'm not gonna be different. Um and how and how are you gonna get them to come to your class? I have to mark I have to partner with my community to get them to class. So, right now we partner a lot with our title companies and we do classes there, and then they also have the connection. The thing is, you got to make sure their classes they want to come to, you know, and then you're gonna call. We're doing an event right now called the Builder Realtor Roundup. We rented Dicky's Arena in Fort Worth. It's it's the large, it's it's the largest arena in Fort Worth. Um, we have 28 home builders coming. With those 28 home builders, we got sponsorships. We're giving$1,000 away every 10 minutes to all the realtors that come. And it's free, by the way. This qualifies for the Guinness Book of World Records largest real estate networking event. Is there what they want sixteen thousand dollars to come validate it, and I don't want we don't want to pay it. Like, it's too much. But but like if you think big and different, you know, you're like, okay, we're we're gonna put all the home builders that we have in a room, and then we're gonna invite all the real there's 25,000 real estate agents in Dallas Fort Worth. Imagine what can happen coming out of this day. You know, for us, you know what we did? We said if you want to be at this, you have to tie your incentives to us for 12 months, home builder. Pretty cool. So now we have incentives tied to us. Now we have all our real estate agents. So I was telling one of our loan officers earlier, I go, dude, if you want to double your business, call every real estate agent in town and just say, Do you know about the big the the builder realtor roundup? You know, let me tell you, let me tell you about this that you you have to be here this day, and here's why. Here's who you're gonna meet.
SPEAKER_01:By the way, all right, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. I'm gonna I'm gonna slow you down here because I need you to go back to Iowa and be uh uh individual loan YouTuber because I want I want everybody listening something that they can actually do, they can't just go give away 16,000 or they can't go give away a thousand dollars every 10 minutes. I love it, by the way. I love it, but tell me what you would do.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I okay, I like this book. This is something new. I've been thinking. I probably would take um the book Never Split the Difference. I would take about four teaching moments from it because it's real sales abilities that you can learn from. I would make a class, I would and I would go around to all the realtors, and I'm probably gonna learn that conversion is an issue, and I'm gonna come say, come learn from me how to convert clients. I'm gonna teach you how hostage negotiators are able to win deals by by increasing conversion. That's different, it's unique, and I'll bet you I can get people in front of me.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. I love that. That's good. All right, guys. I hope you guys enjoyed this show as much as I did. I loved it. Thank you, John Donnelly, for joining us. And um, guys, you know, we're here to empower, equip, and educate you guys from the very best in the business. And I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please like it, comment when you see it in social media. You know, all the algorithms and all how that works. It helps us a lot. And and tell your friends, okay? We love you, and we hope to see you again next time. John, thanks for having me. This is a great conversation.