How Top Mortgage Advisors Stay Relevant When Markets Break with Ken Perry

Markets rise. Markets crash.
 The professionals who survive — and win — are the ones who build before the storm.

In this episode of The Way, Dino sits down with Ken Perry, founder of Knowledge Coop, longtime mortgage educator, speaker, and industry truth-teller, for a deep conversation about identity, confidence, systems, and leadership in volatile markets.

Ken shares hard-earned lessons from decades in lending — including why misplaced confidence destroys careers, how lack of knowledge erodes trust, and why most loan officers struggle not because of the market, but because of poor preparation and broken systems.

This episode goes far beyond tactics. It’s about becoming the kind of professional clients trust, teams follow, and markets can’t shake.

If you want to build a mortgage career that lasts through every cycle, this is a must-listen.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

• Why confidence is earned through knowledge — not hype
• How misplaced attribution creates dangerous highs and devastating lows
• The difference between coaching and therapy (and why leaders need both)
• Why systems matter more than talent when scaling production
• How ADHD, strengths, and self-awareness can become unfair advantages
• Why “being busy” is not the same as being effective
• How to prepare your business before the next market shift
• Why education builds trust faster than marketing
• How loan officers lose deals to Google — and now AI
• What it really means to act like the CEO of your own mortgage business

Thanks for listening to "The Way With Dino Katsiametis"  
 For full show notes, links, and extra episode resources, visit dinokatsiametis.com.
Follow Dino for weekly clips and mortgage leadership insights on
instagram.com/dinokatsiametis | linkedin.com/in/dinokatsiametis
Learn more about Ethos Lending at ethoslending.com.  

Transcript

Dino Int with Ken Perry: And here he is, Ken Perry from Knowledge Coop. And, and it's not just knowledge coop, right? He is Ken Perry with multiple aspects of life that I respect that he has accomplished and done things. So my goal today is get to know him and let you guys all learn from him. So first, thanks for coming on.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Dude, thanks for having me. I've actually watched some, uh, some episodes of the podcast and, uh, it's awesome. I really, uh, appreciate the time.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Well, I appreciate that. Thank you, man. So let's go. Um, first question, who are you today, both personally and professionally?

Ken Perry Raw Int: Dude, that is such a crazy question. Um, who am I personally and professionally? Uh, how deep you wanna go fast.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Go, go. Go deep man.

Ken Perry Raw Int: I've struggled to figure that out. I've actually, I did, uh, probably a, a good three months worth of my therapy sessions with my therapist. Were figuring out, uh, who I am. [00:01:00] And I'm getting there. So I'm Ken Perry and I am president and founder of a company called the Knowledge Coop.

I'm the father of three and husband of one, and I am, um, yeah, I, the work that I've had to do has had to, I've had to figure out who gets to tell me who I am. So Craig Davis and I are very similar in this. We focus on identity a lot and identity with, with me is like my, my big moment in therapy was when I, I figured out I'm not as bad as you think I am.

I'm not as nowhere near as good as you think I am. But somewhere in the middle is where I exist. And so I'm a guy who succeeds at some things. I know what my strengths are, I know what my weaknesses are, and I plan to my strengths as hard as I can, and I try and get other people to take care of my weaknesses.

So, but yeah, I've been running a company for 23. I'll work coming up on 23 years. I run a podcast called Lessons from Last Time where we interview people who've been through difficult times and talk about how they got through it. We [00:02:00] like to take the power from that pain and then, uh, help share, uh, some ideas that might help other people who are going through similar things.

Um, and yeah, I've run a company for a while and I speak on stages. My favorite thing to do is fly around talking on stages.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: What's, uh, what is your typical. Onstage kind of talk 'cause I, I heard you talk and, and it was at a mortgage conference and quite honestly, it had nothing to do with mortgages.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Nope. No, that was my favorite actually. It's the first time I gave that talk. Um, I don't have a, I don't have a normal, like when people try to, when people call to book me, I always just go, okay, what are you guys trying to achieve? Like, what do you need from me at this point? And that changes over the years that I've been doing this.

Right? It just depends on what's going on in the world. Depends on go, what's going on in a company or it depends on what's going on in my world. So a lot of my stuff, you know, I'm the best and most passionate when I'm talking about something I'm struggling with. And so if I am, if it's, uh, you know, on the personal side, I've been talking a lot about remote work, uh, a lot about, [00:03:00] I mean, I think that's where you saw me, I was talking about remote work and the danger of isolation.

And that's just something I'm super passionate about because I'm scared for people that are isolated and alone and, um. And, you know, it's, it's like smoking 15 cigarettes a day for your health. It's increases your likelihood of early death by 29%, um, to be disengaged, socially disengaged. And so I get passionate about stuff where I feel like I can change lives.

And that's one right now I'm talking a lot about. And then I talk about AI just because I'm, I, I'm a freaking research nut. And so anytime something comes around that I'm like, this is gonna be big. I study, research, figure it out, and then help other people understand it. Um, and then I do, like, you know, I've, for as many years as it, it's been around, I've taught the continuing education classes for loan officers, um, where I fly in, speak for, and I, a whole day on everything from ethics to, um, to, uh, oh gosh, AI's in this year's class, um, any federal laws, I've read all the federal laws related to [00:04:00] mortgage, and I, I know them all like the back of my hand.

So just whatever's interesting and intriguing me at the time.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: So you also said something when I asked, you know, who you are, you went into this, um, pretty detailed explanation. But you also said that, um, you find people, and I I am gonna butcher it a little bit, do you find people to fill in your weaknesses or something like that?

Ken Perry Raw Int: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the, so

Dino Int with Ken Perry: go

Ken Perry Raw Int: me to expand on that? Oh, yeah. So I have a DHD and my A DHD is a big part of who I am. Um, I've had it for, I mean, obviously my entire life, but, um, part of a DHD is kids skill one or two ways, right? So part of my, part of A DHD in general is you're chasing, um, your brain gets bored, your brain's not, um, people think it's, it's a, it's a like.

Hyperness doesn't come from just being hyper. The hyperness comes from my brain's not totally connecting, [00:05:00] right? And so I'm chasing something and I'm trying to catch up with it. And so when people chase, a lot of times they'll chase, um, usually kids with a DHD end up in a lot of trouble. And I, my GPA in, in high school was a 2.67.

My GPA in college was a 2.33. Um, A DHD is not celebrated in schools. It's, it's something that is, um, a problem for people. And so kids go one of two ways, right? A lot of people in jail are A DHD and a lot of people who are CEOs are A DHD. So if you can find the right thing that you can chase, um, a lot of entrepreneurs like me, like I just find stuff I can chase and then those ideas oftentimes aren't thought of by other people.

My brain allows me to think outside of every box you could try to put around me, I'm gonna go figure something else out. Where that is magical is when you have somebody or people who can take that help, help kind of boil it down and go, what is, what does this really mean? And is this really possible? And then they can execute on that and then it becomes [00:06:00] a real thing.

So my ideas are dead until somebody can take those and make them live. And that's what, that's where I, I know my strengths, my strengths are, are super powerful with my A DHD. My weaknesses are also equally frustrating for people. But I've made a living, um, because I've gotten great people to work around me who don't judge me for those things and who don't get super frustrated over those things and can take 'em and go, wait a second.

That one right there, that one's a winner. And can plug those things in.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: guys, I'm gonna bring this back around to mortgage sooner or later, but this is all fascinating to me. Um, okay. A couple things earlier, you also mentioned therapy, and before we jumped on, you mentioned coaching and, and I want to know, are those two different things to you?

Ken Perry Raw Int: Hundred

Dino Int with Ken Perry: do they They are. Okay. So

Ken Perry Raw Int: Yeah.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: I I, I'm going here because I do believe everybody [00:07:00] needs some sort or form of therapy or coaching, right.

Or both. Right. I, I'm a huge believer in coaching. I've always believed in it. In fact, the better I get at something the and, and busier I get, the more it all works. The more I understand that I actually need even more coaching because I'm, I'm constantly pushing myself to get into places that I've never been or places that I want to be.

Best way to do that is through help, right? And, and, and a lot of us do it through reading books or listening to podcasts, but I do believe there's something that's, that's a little bit more grounding and, and, uh, more powerful when you're one-on-one with somebody or even a small group. Uh, but I wanna hear from you first.

What's the difference between therapy and coaching for you?

Ken Perry Raw Int: Huge difference in fact. And, and I have to be careful 'cause sometimes I, I treat my therapist like a coach, um, which is a problem because she doesn't know anything about business, like my business. Um, she knows what I've told her, but that's it. And that's [00:08:00] not what she's there for. So therapy for me is dealing with things that, where I'm struggling through life.

Like I'm, um, when I first went to my therapist, it was, so, this is embarrassing to say, I'm like, look, I've owned the company a lot of years. Eventually I'll have an exit. And so my original therapy was like, how do I make sure that when that happens, I can still be who I am and, and not become something that I don't wanna be?

Like eventually when that happens, do I want to be like, I've just seen people fail hard at life when they come into money. So my initial thought was like, how do I still be me? And within minutes, you guys, the freaking mortgage industry tanked, and all of a sudden I, we're a user base man. We are a subscription service that has companies and individual subscriptions, and when all the individuals leave the industry and all the companies shut down.

You know, we had clients that owed us 150 grand that shut down. We had multiple. And so we lost a lot of millions in the first year of, of the crash. [00:09:00] And so immediately I had to go to

Dino Int with Ken Perry: you say crash, 'cause I don't know how long you guys been around. You mean 2008 or the, the recent

Ken Perry Raw Int: 2008 was way easier than this one. This one sucks. Um, 2000, uh, I started the company to oh three. So oh eight I got through because we only had like three people. And HARP came in and, and saved a lot of people. Loan officers were able to still do loans, whereas this one was just like, there's no business.

Like it just didn't exist. And so with this one, we had to go through layoffs and I never had to go through layoffs on this scale before.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Hardest thing in the world, right?

Ken Perry Raw Int: The worst thing I could ever imagine. And the hard, I mean, it's hard anyway, but also in our situation, everything became about me being a failure. And I started reading about myself.

Some people that had left the company, started just writing what a horrible human being I am, and took it very personally. And so therapy for me then was just her picking me up off the ground when I would just fall apart and I would just, I melted every week for a while. I [00:10:00] would just come in and just be like, I don't even know what to do.

I was just a mess. And so therapy is more, you know, help me figure out like, what part of this is my, like I wanna take blame. I always wanna take blame, right? And I, as an A DHD kid, you get a lot of blame. And so I'm used to it so I know what to do with it, right? And, but, um, but like, what part isn't mine?

Like, how can, so she helped me detach in my head, these are things I could have done. These are things that are just other humans that are dealing with their struggle themselves in a very vicious and, and like painful way, but that's about them. And so that was therapy for me. Um, now my therapy is a lot more dad type stuff.

Um, as a dad, your kids don't, um, you don't know until way later in life what you did right. And what you did wrong. You just try to do your best, but then they tell you when you get older. Um, and there's, there's a movie you should watch. I can't remember the last name. It's Jay something. It's the new George Clooney, um, and Adam Sandler movie.[00:11:00] 

But if you ever wanna know what goes on in my therapy sessions, watch that movie.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: All right. By the way, do you have any girls

Ken Perry Raw Int: two,

Dino Int with Ken Perry: to, uh, so

Ken Perry Raw Int: I have one boy and two girls. Exactly. Exactly. Um, that that movie he talks about, I mean, it's a, it's a, basically a famous, um, he, George Cloy plays a famous movie character, like a famous actor.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Uh.

Ken Perry Raw Int: And it's later in life when he gets to look back at all the things he gave up for that job. And so it took me through a path of like, this is my therapy session for this Thursday. We'll be talking through that movie and like all the things in my family that I gave up to, to be on stages and chase a career.

And so anyway, that's my therapy coaching's way different. Um, I coach with, I'm, I'm allowed to say this, I asked him, I coach with Bill Hart and Bill does not coach, he coaches strictly for Movement mortgage executive team. But he took me on, uh, I used to coach with him, um, and I was talking to him. He is like, lemme just pick you up again.

So I'm his sole coaching client, uh, which is, I'm pretty proud of that. Uh, but [00:12:00] he.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: I sense like pride

Ken Perry Raw Int: I'm so proud. Like, it's like an honor. It's such an honor. 'cause he doesn't, he's a really good friend, but he also, he's walked the path before me. Like you need somebody who's walked the path before you. And he is talked to so many executives and coached so many executives that he knows what it's like to coach an executive.

And so, um, I'm coaching with him now and that's just straight up business. Like how do we structure the business? How do we structure our leadership team? You know, I just, I just took myself outta the role of CEO and put in a CEO. And so I'm not, I'm a member of my executive team now, but I've had to hand over all of the management of the company.

Um, I've wanted to, like, for a long time, I've wanted to, and finally I've done it and it's working. So he helps me more with the strategy of how do we do this, how do we do that? Um, but it's not, um, and of course, just like I said, my therapist is, I've used her as a business coach sometimes. I've absolutely used Bill as a therapist.

Sometimes, you know, he has a son who is doing great but also struggled growing up. I have a son [00:13:00] who's doing great, but also struggled growing up, and so there's just, there's too big, too good of a relationship to not tap into him and his, his parenting stuff too. So there's, there's a middle ground a little bit, but for the most part I keep my personal mental health stuff on one and then my business stuff on the other.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Got it. And, and the reason why I brought that up and, and I guess where I'm gonna bring it back around, right? For, for mortgage and real estate, people listening to the podcast, there's times in life where, um, everything seems like whatever you touch is turning to gold and everything's wonderful. And then there's times in seasons where it's just terrible, right?

Winter, summer type of thing. And, and I, I, I truly believe that highs and lows are, are probably the worst thing in life. Obviously those highs are fantastic, but, but whenever the high is so good, the low is usually 10 times lower. [00:14:00] So trying to find this middle ground. a few bumps and, and you know, ups and downs are fine, right?

As long as you're kind of just weaving like this instead of the big highs and lows. So, so with that said, um, I, I brought this up because I, I think it's super important for loan office for everybody, but, but since we're in the mortgage space, right? For us to always be seeking how to find that middle ground.

And, and when I say that, I don't mean to, to be okay with average. Always seek more, always, you know, keep going for more, but, but seek others that have been there before as whether it's a mentor or a therapist or a coach. And, and I think you can, you can get there so much faster and you'll find that your number one excuse, I don't have enough money, or It's too expensive, you'll, you'll find real quick how fast it pays for [00:15:00] itself.

And, and I, I say this because. I've been through a divorce. I got divorced once. I'll never get divorced again. Um, you know, heck, I'll just say it the way I, I, I usually say it. I'll eat shit before I get divorced again. It's the worst thing in the world. Right. So I put up with a lot more now than I ever used to before, but there's a reason for it.

And, and the fact of the matter is, is usually you come out of it just fine as long as you're trying. So I I I love how you said that. And one of the things where I'm gonna go back to is you said you find people that take care of the, the weaknesses that you have, right. That are able to fulfill that need.

And, and I think that's super important. 'cause I know when I was originating, I was doing everything myself. And, and then finally I found, you know, I got myself a, a personal processor and. I didn't have to share with anybody else. Right. It was just like all mine. I could, I could control, but I was still in control of [00:16:00] everything and, and I was doing everything and, and it worked.

Business got a lot better, things got a little bit easier, but then I finally got a personal assistant and, and then all of a sudden I stopped doing things and, uh, others started doing, picking up the things I was bad at. And I'll, I'll just give a few examples, right? Like I was, I still have a hard time saying it because it's like, I, I was bad at putting together files, right?

Like I could still do it and I still do it

Ken Perry Raw Int: you have a hard time saying that?

Dino Int with Ken Perry: No, just because, like still I hate saying that I'm bad at something and it's stupid. That's what I'm saying. It's stupid. Everybody needs to get over that.

Ken Perry Raw Int: uhhuh?

Dino Int with Ken Perry: the rephrase is, I'm not bad at it. I'm just a lot better at doing something else and I should be doing something else.

And, and it's not that I feel bad, it's just that. I think a lot of people struggle with giving up control or even saying that they're not good at something 'cause they think, right? And it's like, even if, even if you can [00:17:00] do it, somebody else should be doing something and you can get so much further along in life.

And, and then going back to like me being divorced, it's like the money piece. You don't have money to coach, you don't have money for a therapist. Well, I'll tell you what, it's gonna cost you a lot more to get divorced. It's gonna cost you a lot more if your kids don't want to talk to you. It's gonna cost you a lot more when your life starts falling apart because you didn't water where you were supposed to water.

And, and there's this fine like line of, you know, where to put your time and effort and, and one thing I love to say, and it's a challenge for all of you right now listening, what are the five last books you read? And if they're all. About how to make more money. Chances are you're, you're gonna be struggling on this side of the fence a little bit, right?

Like, there's no balance there. And, and I found myself every podcast I listened to, every book I read, every whatever I [00:18:00] was doing was all in one direction. I was like, all right, I gotta, I gotta balance me out a little bit more. So I, I was fascinated with how you opened up and we've gone way further on who are you personally and professionally than I am with any other guests.

But, uh, it's important because that, that speaks to covering your bases. It's, it speaks to watering where you need to get water, you know where the water needs to go. And, and I hope all you guys listening right now can actually take that as really strong, strong advice as to, you know, how you should be leading.

Um, not just doing loans. There's, there's. Doing loans and there's how to get loans and there's how to be healthy and live a, a well balanced life and how to have a happy family and, and all of it has to come together.

Ken Perry Raw Int: When you talk about the, you know, the highs and the lows in trying to find some sort of average, I think we struggle with misplaced attribution. So when [00:19:00] things are going like 2020 and 2021 for the mortgage industry, things are going really incredibly well. And we had, we, we attributed that to just how good we are.

Like, look at this guy, I'm crushing it. Right? And that can give you a false sense of I don't need to do anything more. I'm doing everything I, I need to be doing. 'cause obviously it's working. And then when the market crashes, we have misplaced attribution and then we attribute that to, I must be a failure in life.

I must suck at everything that I do. And we go into this really dark depressive state. And so the goal isn't that we don't have highs and lows. 'cause in the mortgage industry, it's literally never gonna happen. Like, we're not gonna have normal, there's, we've been chasing normal as long as I've been in the business, which I was a loan officer in 1998.

So 27 years of chasing normal, it's never gonna happen, right? So once you can get used to that, then what you can do is go, okay, when it's high, you go, okay, this isn't real. Right? That's the first thing I have to say. And, and how do I make sure that as it drops, I'm safe? And when it's low, you go, this isn't real.

How do I keep my head up and figure out how to get back [00:20:00] to, you know, what is, and so don't attribute any of that to you. 'cause the market does what the market's gonna do. It's a fickle beast. And so get there. So do, don't try to find a middle ground. Try to find a way to grow even when things are good and try and find a way to keep yourself off the floor when things are bad.

You said men's groups or, or, or small groups. Everybody needs one of those too. Like, because, and everybody needs one outside of the industry. Like I, I get it. Loan officer groups are awesome and having like a brainstorming group, we need that. But you also need to talk to somebody that runs a company totally outside of mortgage.

And, and from that you're gonna get stuff like, oh dang, I didn't think about that. So stretch outside of mortgage, but have those small groups that you meet with.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: yeah. I agree. I love that. All right, so let's move on.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Okay,

Dino Int with Ken Perry: wanna know. Yeah, let's, let's, uh, I, so the, the typical next question for me, which usually happens about two minutes later is, uh, [00:21:00] how, why, where, when did you get started in this industry?

Ken Perry Raw Int: I was a bartender in California, a place called Fault Line Brewing Company, and, uh, I graduated, uh, college. I, I told you I had a 2.67, then I got a 2.33 in junior college. I did three years at Diablo Valley College, and I graduated from Metro State, uh, with a 4.0 in my last two years of college because I was taking all communications and speech classes, which.

I loved, like I couldn't get enough of them. So, so anyway, I get outta that. And with a speech communication degree, you can do one of two things. You can bag groceries or you can bartend. And so I bartended and, uh, as a bartender, I was loving it. And then my buddy who I was playing in a worship band with, I was the drummer.

He was a guitarist, and he is like, dude, everybody in my industry's hiring you work for as a title rep. And so Mark Schafer goes, uh, you want me to get you an interview? I'm like, sure. And I met with this mortgage company in Pleasanton, California, and they had a base salary. And I, I had never gotten one before.

Like I'd been a bartender, I'd been [00:22:00] mainly just eat what you kill to kind of jobs. And, uh, with that I had a real base. I had a $30,000 base and I took it. Um, and so as a loan officer broke their records for production, I was a really good loan officer actually. Uh, I just got bored, um, because I am very competitive and when I win I kind of get bored.

And so I had chased the rush one, and then my boss came to me. I'll never forget the day he said. I can, I, I wanna take, take you outta your loan officer job. And I go, why? He goes, you're bored. And I'm like, I'm making you a ton of money. He's like, yeah, but you're bored. And I go, okay, I'm listening. And he said, I can promise you twice the satisfaction and half the income. And I'm like, what? But I trust his name's Sam Hussein. And he goes, yeah, when I hire you as our trainer, we're gonna open 24 branches and I want you to open 'em all for me. And so I became his trainer to open 24 branches across the United States and then fly out and speak and do all these things. And I just was totally in love with it.

[00:23:00] And it was amazing. And, uh,

Dino Int with Ken Perry: that name sounds familiar is

Ken Perry Raw Int: Sam Hussein,

Dino Int with Ken Perry: yeah. What company? Is he still around?

Ken Perry Raw Int: he's, I think he's finally retired. He spent a long time, he was at HR Block Mortgage

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Oh, okay.

Ken Perry Raw Int: I was

Dino Int with Ken Perry: right. Yeah.

Ken Perry Raw Int: So we, uh, Hugh grew up in the old finance company, Transamerica Days, like those companies. So I took that job. Um, then my wife and I wanted to move up to the Northwest, and when we did, uh, Sam said, so I got a job as an account executive for a wholesale lender, and Sam goes, same guy.

He goes, you're gonna go get that job. You're gonna do really well and you're gonna get bored again. Never forget your heart is in training and helping people learn. And I said, okay, thanks Sam. That was his last words to me when I left. And, uh, I got up to, to Portland. Uh, we live in the, kind of the Clark County Washington market, but I moved out there and did great as an ae.

Made a bunch of money and then gave it all up because I couldn't watch it anymore. I couldn't, I, I couldn't stand watching people. I'm a big, I'm a big believer in supporting [00:24:00] your family and how, just how much that means to a lot of people. And I would watch people get into the mortgage industry, their family's counting on them to be successful, and then they fail.

And I can't imagine going home and saying, honey, what I tried to do didn't work. So I'm gonna quit. And so what I did is, as an account executive, I saw how many loan officers had no idea what they were doing, but the market was going crazy, 2000 to 2003 and they're failing or they're committing fraud. And so I, I'm like, I have to stop and go back to what Sam said.

And I started my company in oh three, um, to help people basically learn the industry. So I built myself a one week class on how to do loans from reading credit reports all the way through marketing, through uh, everything. And then I started reading compliance laws and started including that my, like, if you wanna be a good loan officer, you might as well do it.

Right? So I started doing that and then, and then that kind of took off into a speaking career, uh, where I got to fly around speaking all over on, uh, on lots of things, a lot of business development speeches. And it was super [00:25:00] frustrating back then. 'cause I was out there saying the market's gonna crash.

This is in oh 6, 0 5. I'm out there saying, you guys, this is a bubble. This makes zero sense. There is zero chance this continues and everything will fall apart. And I had a few people come up after seminars and go, if everything you just said is true, the world economy's going to gonna fall apart. I said, yeah.

And then they would come at, and I, I don't usually talk about this, but um, a another speaker was just in town saying that there's no way that there's a bubble, that everybody needs a place to live and we're just gonna keep going through the roof. And that guy was making so much more than me telling people things that I believe he knew to be not true.

And I'm there saying, prepare your business for the storm. It is going to come and you are going to suffer. So build it now so that it can survive the storm. I had a guy in San Diego one time fold me aside and he goes, Ken, I dunno if you know this, but you're in San Diego right now. I'm like, I know that.

Like I grew up in California. [00:26:00] And he's like, well, our market doesn't really go down. Like, are you kidding me? What? You need me more than I want anybody? Like, yes, it will. Like, and so anyway, I, that was my frustration as I was telling people it crash. And so I've always done the thing that doesn't make as much money as if I just lied to people.

But it's because I care too much about people that I'm, I, I wouldn't talk to people if I didn't have something to say. And if I have something to say, it's well researched and I want people to listen. And it was, it was hard to watch, man, because I, I had to watch families fall apart.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: so, you were the doomsayer that nobody wanted, that nobody wanted to listen to, but you

Ken Perry Raw Int: I'm a risk guy.

Yeah, I'm a risk guy. I will always tell you where the risk is in anything you're doing. 'cause I don't want you to fail. And I was the guy that was saying, if you don't prepare yourself, it's going to go very poorly. And, and I wasn't, I mean, some people took it really well and did great, but other people were like, this guy's crazy.

There's no way it's gonna crash.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: [00:27:00] So lemme ask you this question. Um, to me there's nothing worse than a doomsday, uh. But, uh, not, not, and I don't mean that in a negative way. I just mean it, uh, it's, it's not in my DNA, like I struggle with listening to negative people. So if it's negative but with a solution, right? Or a preparation for something else or, or just something, then, then I, I can, I can live with it.

I'm better. Uh, but I, I struggle and I hate when somebody just comes on, just starts talking negative all the time,

Ken Perry Raw Int: Oh, it's

Dino Int with Ken Perry: it's about the market or my industry, say, okay. But I also believe that no matter what the market's doing, there's somebody that's crushing it always.

Ken Perry Raw Int: A hundred percent

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Even right now, there's plenty of guys doing over a hundred million during, during the sub 3% interest rates, people reached over a hundred million a year and they were like, I'm [00:28:00] king.

I, I have hit the pinnacle up. Right? And now they're at 10 million.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Right.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Why are these other guys, I mean, I've interviewed so many of 'em, they're all, they're doing over a hundred million. It's unbelievable. So to me it's like,

Ken Perry Raw Int: a, there's a difference between understanding the market and wallowing in it, right? So I wasn't teaching people to wallow. I was saying understand it so that you can win in it. Don't let it control you, but know that it's gonna come because those that were most shocked by the storm struggled to get up, right?

Noah, our greatest example of somebody who planned for a storm, like everybody made fun of him 'cause he's building an arc and they're like, dude hasn't reindeer in freaking forever. And he is like, all right, whatever. And he is like banging on his ark,

Dino Int with Ken Perry: and, and how

Ken Perry Raw Int: he won.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: in preparation, it

Ken Perry Raw Int: I don't remember a lot, a lot. He had to, he had to deal with those people that were saying he was wrong.

And it's like, but if you're prepared and you don't let the, the, the market then control your [00:29:00] emotion, then you win. And that's where, I mean, what a buddy of mine do you know, Ryan Hills? He's a good buddy of mine. He is, uh, the re source tv, but he's a big guy with movement. Um, and he was talking about this may be the top year for many loan officers.

And I was like, what? And this is a year ago. And when you looked at production, the opportunity was there, fewer loan officers, more opportunity, and there's still enough loans for you to actually do if you just pull your head out. And so that was his message. And I was like, that's the best message ever.

Because truly the people that are the best get to win. And, and the people that wallow in, oh, woe is me. There's the business is gone. The, you know, which is the bad habits we created back in, um, in 20 and 21, pick up the phone, answer the, the money. Like it was just too easy.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: So, and that's where I was going with it all. I wasn't, I wasn't trying to be negative towards you being a dos

Ken Perry Raw Int: Yeah, totally.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: you [00:30:00] know, it was what do we do

Ken Perry Raw Int: Mm-hmm.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: preparation? And, and I, I do believe that we have a lot of good times coming right now.

Ken Perry Raw Int: it was really.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: you know, just like I said earlier, when the, when the high is too high, the low is usually too low.

Well, we, we did, we had, you know, I mean the, the refi boom, um, over COVID was so high and it lasted for so long. And I, I still remember a year later I was like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be nuts when it finally crashes. It's just. No way you can do cocaine for a, you know, a week straight and not be out of it for, for over a month.

Right. Like trying to recuperate it was this kinda what it was like. So, so here we are today. The market to a lot of people still sucks, but it's really not that bad. And, and I think you just need to adapt. So I wanted to, I wanted to get advice from you on adapting and, and [00:31:00] also how do you prepare for storms when there is no storm in front of you.

'cause you know, you were insightful enough to see the storm coming. Others just don't even wanna look that far. They're too buried in whatever it is they're doing, that they're not looking out towards the horizon. And, and I think it's important to structure your business in a way that, um, you can weather a storm, right?

Like. Build your house, the foundation on a rock, not on the sand. Uh, so in your opinion, what does that look like for a healthy mortgage advisor?

Ken Perry Raw Int: Wow. Um, so I always go to, to knowledge. I believe knowledge wins over everything. The, the way I was a successful loan officer is, um, I studied the guidelines constantly. I knew exactly, I knew everything about every guideline that existed. Um, because to a hammer, everything's a nail. And so every time I would study a guideline, [00:32:00] everybody I talked to seemed to need that loan.

I'm like, that's so weird. You need that loan too. Like, so I just did a whole class last year on construction lending. So I was building a house and I, I interviewed my construction, uh, or my builder, uh, about construction lending and a, and a loan officer. And so many loan officers haven't done a construction loan in so long.

And they're like, you don't understand. You know, it's this and it's that, and it's this. It's like, well, why not know it? Like, what else are you doing with your time? So I always tell people, schedule your study time. You know, every week you need to be getting better. Study your time, schedule your time to get the knowledge that you need to be confident to walk out there.

Because I believe loan officers suffer from a lack of confidence and it's earned by a lack of research. So you, you earn this when you don't know what you're doing and you freaking know you don't know what you're doing. How can you come off as confident talking to people about the business at all? You know, when I talked to loan officers, I'm like, when I was looking for a construction load, I was talking to some loan officers, they're like, yeah, I don't really do that.

[00:33:00] And I was like the, you remember that old story of the, the priest who, uh, the water, it starts raining and uh, so he goes up to the second floor, it's kinda flooding, and this boat comes by and he is like, priest jump in the boat. And he is like, no, God's gonna save me. And then he keeps flooding and he goes to the third floor and another boat comes by and Nope, God's gonna save me.

I'm good. And he goes up to the top of the building and a helicopter comes. And priests jump in. He is like, God's gonna save me. And he ends up dying and going to heaven. He is like, God, why you didn't, didn't you save me? And God says, I sent you two boats in a helicopter. Like, what else did you want? And I think we see these boats and we're like, nah.

Like people are trying to give you business and you're missing it because of your self. You keep thinking that the market's tough. It's tough 'cause you think it's tough a lot of the times. Um, I always say if, if anybody's doing business, why aren't you? Right? Why can't anybody beat you? Like if you say there's no loans out there and I can show you your market and there were a thousand purchases [00:34:00] in your county, you know, whatever.

The last quarter, how many did you get? Who got 'em? Well, why? Right? It's probably 'cause they were more prepared to make that happen. Um, and then also work on your systems. Everything's systems to me, like I don't build them. I, I, I, I'm tough to get to abide by one, but when I bring in a deal, we know what the system is for that to get from beginning to end.

And so focus on that system. Make sure that it's not broken because it's gonna turn around and it's not gonna be broken, and that's gonna happen really fast. And if you didn't fix your boat before the next storm, or in this case if you didn't fix your boat before everything got awesome again, you're gonna have to watch everybody out there wakeboarding and you're sitting there trying to figure, I got a lot of boat references for you today.

You're gonna be sitting here trying to figure out what's going on. And so fix it now so that when it gets big, it gets, you know, you get to ride the waves.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: So I'm, I'm totally with you on, on the systems. Um, it's, it's what got me to scale my personal business when I was producing with, without the [00:35:00] systems, there's just no way you could do more than a certain amount of volume unless you just were okay with working more hours. Right? There was, it was the only way.

And, um, I used this analogy. I've used it before, but for those of you that didn't hear it, I'll say it again. I grew up in the fast food restaurant business with my dad. And, uh, he was, he was masterful at many, many things. He was just, he was the best mentor in the world and I learned a ton from him. But there was this one lesson, one time and, uh, we were at a restaurant and, you know, we knew the owner and all that.

And, and the owner said, oh yeah, we, we do this much, this much in business. And keep in mind my dad's restaurants were like, top notch. So he had two in particular, he had several, but two in particular over the years that were like iconic and did so much business. It was unbelievable. Right. Now he knows, he knows the business.

And when that person said that to him, he is like, well, that's [00:36:00] fantastic. Right? When we got in the car, he told me, I hope you, I hope you know that wasn't true. And they go, why would you say that? And, and this is where the lesson is. 'cause he said his kitchen. Could never support that much volume. It's impossible for that restaurant to do the volume, he said, because the kitchen just can't produce that.

And, and that to me is a mortgage advisor needs to have a system, otherwise his kitchen just can't produce more than 20 million, 30 million, 50, a hundred. I seriously doubt there's very many people over a hundred million that don't have some killer systems in place. So, so that, you know, what you said was great and, and I, and I'd love to like expand on that so everybody listening says, all right, I need to take a step back in order to develop these systems.

Otherwise there's just, what's the point? I can't do more. And, and with today, with AI where it's at, even, even. My favorite, my favorite [00:37:00] saying, even a moron can, can do it. You, you really can, you can, you can get as creative as you want and, and put something together, but take time to do that because if you don't, you're never gonna get to that next level.

So that's, that's number one that you said. Number two, and I, and, and this is where I'm struggling. I, I don't necessarily agree with you, um, but I'm starting to, I hate saying it one, one thing from my personal business, right? That's like what I always go back to was I actually stopped doing all the other stuff and started hyper focusing on, on basically first time home buyer Fannie Mae type loans.

And, and I did that because my team, my system could do it. The second there was a construction loan or a a, a big jumbo loan with. Five corporations, five rental [00:38:00] properties, and three ex-wives, whoa. Breaks, slammed on everything. And, and then it became a bottleneck. 'cause I was the only one that could look at that file and actually figure out what to do with it.

So I really like hyper-focused on first time home buyers. Fannie Mae. It's predictable. I loved it. And, and my business exploded when I did that. However, and this is where I'm starting to kind of lean a little, um, and, and oh, by the way, and I've always hated with the passion leads, I've, I thought that was the worst thing in the world.

Mine were a hundred percent referral. But if I, if you read all of the, the business books on investing, what's the number one rule in investing? Diversify.

Ken Perry Raw Int: So high. Oh

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Yeah, but diversify. Right. Be why? Because you never know what asset class is gonna take off and which one's gonna dump. And you're kind of, you're protected.

And. And there's a piece to me now that kind of wonders if in the mortgage business we need to do that or not. I'm still [00:39:00] undecided. Um, there's a piece of me that says, no, you don't have to diversify. 'cause the, the typical standard Fannie Mae loan still where it's at, like the bulk of everything. But maybe the diversification comes from, from where you get your leads, maybe a little lead gen.

And this is where I think I'm, I'm leaning now. I've, I've adamantly hated lead. Jen hated it with the passion. But now with ai, I can justify how maybe it's not so bad because you can put systems in place that, that handle the entire lead up until it gets to a point where then you can jump in. So wanted your, your thoughts on, on that commentary.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Yeah. You know, I don't, I, I believe in do what you do best, right? So if I was to, as far as diversifying, I believe with loans, if somebody goes to you for a loan, you have to either be an expert on that product or you have to know [00:40:00] somebody that is, that you can send it to, right? So if you're not doing construction loans and you have no outlet for it anyway, find a great construction lender.

They might send you deals as well. You send them your deals and just keep moving. Um, but even then, you don't lose touch with that consumer, right? When somebody comes to you and says, I need construction. You're like, dude, I don't do construction, and you're probably better off that I'm not gonna do your loan.

'cause I'm kind of not great at that. I've got the greatest person ever. And like, if I'm recommending 'em, obviously they're gonna take care of you. And then I'm gonna set up that cold, that warm call. I'm gonna set up a, a call with you every two weeks and make sure that it's going well. So that if anything goes wrong, I've got your back.

Like I've got you. And so you're staying that person, right? Because when somebody comes to you for a mortgage, like that's a pretty cool thing. You don't wanna be like, oh, go talk to that person. See you later next. Like it's just, you've got time and it's what you do for a living. So, so, but if you do have that product, understanding that product, being able to do it, what if, if you were gonna be an expert on let's say five different products, and I'm not talking about like jumping over to reverse or something like that.

I [00:41:00] believe that reverse is a very specialty thing that I love some reverse loan officers that don't even do front forward. 'cause they just rock those reverses all day long. Um, and so what do you need to give up to be better at those products that, that you're not good at right now? Because lemme tell you, there's too many loan officers doing their own disclosures right now.

And I'm telling you, I have paperwork, anxiety disorder, it's a thing. And when I was a loan officer, if you made me do disclosures, I wouldn't have done loans. 'cause in the back of my mind, a loan leads to disclosures, which means I'm gonna have to do paperwork. And so you have to make it as easy as humanly possible for you to do your job.

And, and I'm finding somebody else to do that. I'm finding somebody else to do all of these other things because if I'm gonna be the expert in the industry. I need to make sure that I am. And by the way, there's tons of people that will disagree. Um, there's a lot of people that don't know product at all.

They're just great with people and people trust them. And so they go to them and they're like, I don't freaking know anything. Go talk to so and so and they've got a strong NF team. The problem is if you lose one of those team members, your entire business could cry, could crumble. And [00:42:00] so in my opinion, you do need to be the one that knows all of this stuff.

Um, to make that, you know, to, to have a successful business, you do need to have that expert knowledge. And it's your goal as a loan officer is to keep people off Google and now off ai, right? The only reason people Google or go to AI is when you don't sound like you know what you're talking about. And so as soon as you sound less than confident about a, a product or an underwriting thing, I'm gonna go, let me double check that.

That seems weird. Um, I'm on this, I'm on this med right now, so, uh, we haven't talked about it, but I just got outta the hospital and this medicine I'm on. The doctor gives me the antibiotic and he goes and prescribing you this. Don't Google it. I'm like, what? And he told me some of the things I would find when I Googled.

And he goes, so don't, it'll keep you up at night. It's a big powerful antibiotic. And I go, cool. You know, I haven't Googled it because I trusted that doctor and I trusted what he said to me. And I know that what I do with stuff, and I have, I mean, I will give myself [00:43:00] that disease, whatever it is, right?

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Yeah, yeah,

Ken Perry Raw Int: I'll have every side effect if I read 'em.

And so, but, but I didn't because I trusted that doctor who said it. If he didn't say, don't Google this, I probably would've. Right? Or if he said, you know, it's kind of a, we'll see, but, but he came off with such confidence and I'm like, I, why would I Google it? Like the guy knows what he is talking about.

And that's the same thing you wanna do as a loan officer, is give them that confidence where they don't have to go Google something.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: I, I tell this story a lot 'cause I, um, I went through a few different CPAs years ago, and I would always, I wouldn't argue with them, but I would, I would question them a lot.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Mm-hmm.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: and then one day I met Oz and, you know, I asked him a question, he answered it. I was like, okay. He didn't even question him anymore.

He just had so much confidence when he said it, and the way he carried himself and, and, and his complete answer. Sometimes his answers are detailed, sometimes they're very short, just done. And I just trust him. I, I know for a fact that he knows what he is talking [00:44:00] about and even though I

Ken Perry Raw Int: But if he would've said, I don't, I don't, I just do cookie cutter stuff, you know, I don't really, like You didn't, you wouldn't trust him. Yeah.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Or, or if he gave me an answer that, you know, I'm an inquisitive guy, I wanna know, but if he gave me an answer that wasn't, uh, confident enough, then I would have to second guess 'em. And, and I would say too many mortgage advisors are not confident enough and why you said it. 'cause they don't even know what they're doing most of the

Ken Perry Raw Int: Yeah. Yeah.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: All right. So what's your opinion on lead gen?

Ken Perry Raw Int: On lead gen being like purchasing leads or on lead gen being like going on and generating leads.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Yeah, no purchasing.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Um, I don't know. There's so many compliance issues with lead gen, but um, with purchasing of leads, I. I think it just depends on you. Like I always, I'm a firm believer in people living in their gifts, right?

We've all been uniquely gifted to do something. And that's something, the more you can find that [00:45:00] gift and then go execute using that gift, the better. And so if you are gifted at being around people, making friendships, you have a huge collection of friends that you're constantly, you know, connected with and you could walk into a real estate office and everybody eats outta your hand, you know, those types of things well then don't like go out and do the work and you'll get deeper relationships.

Lead gen's just a struggle. Like if, if you're trying to purchase leads from people that are in the, the market, there's just no bigger fallout rate. There's no like the, your closing ratio on those things, it's just so much effort for so little reward. I believe in lead gen for call centers. I think any call center without lead gen is not a call center. You need, like, that's how Rocket Mortgage does their business, right? So I believe in it to, to the extent where you've got somebody sitting there, you know, requiring leads to be able to, to do loans and you can bang out some loans. And when you're paying for leads, you can pay loan officers less typically.

Right? But as, [00:46:00] I mean, I had somebody come up in my first year in business when I was training people on how to do loans, and he goes, I'm not really a people person. I don't really connect with people. And I'm like, you should do a different job like that. That's part of the job. Like the, you know, that's why you get the big bucks.

And if you don't have that go underwrite. Um, or, or do something that doesn't require those skills.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: I, um, you know, at Ethos one of the things that, that we've done is we don't officially have a lead gen division. Uh, because I've always just been a self gen guy. I've never even understood it, but, but with AI now in place and. A lot of the tools that are there. I I'm, I'm starting to open my mind to it a little bit and I'm seeing some success 'cause we hired our first few guys, but, but I still think, and, and we're here, you know, for those of you guys that don't know, 'cause I say it a lot is we're here to empower, equip, and educate.

You know, you guys on the way lending [00:47:00] should be done. And, and you said something, Ken, a second ago you said, you know, every, every, you know, mortgage company that has lead gen should have a call center. And, and Yes, but I'm, I'm specifically talking to you guys that are doing loans. You don't have to go work at a place like that where.

You're, you're barely making any money because they're doing it all. You can do it. You can be the CEO of your own self, of your own personal business, whether you're out, meaning real estate agents or you're buying leads, but you have a system in place to handle them. And then you follow up to keep up, keep in touch with them.

Don't be the typical lead gen guy that is just so transactional, and as soon as it funds, it's over. You know, create a database, stay in touch with them. Get referrals from 'em. Like learn from our referral guys that are so good at that. Apply it to this part of the business, and then slowly start converting over.

And then I, and this is where I'm going with my, you know, diversify. You can [00:48:00] start doing both now, because in the old days, if you weren't around to answer the phone, when that lead came in, or make the phone call or, or respond right away, you lost because somebody else was on it. Versus now, AI can just do it all for you and then you can jump in when appropriate.

Right? So, so I'm, I'm totally into it, but I still want all you guys to realize that you don't have to go work at a place that provides all that stuff and does it all for you and, and you're just a body. That's all you are. That's not a career, that's just a job. You know, our industry is so incredible and it can offer you a career and, and, and riches beyond belief.

I mean, you can make so much money in this industry, but don't look at it like a job and don't look at it as a transaction. Look at it as a relationship every single time. Create the systems in place. I mean, here we have this, we call it our always present program because our average client gets between 13 and 16 gifts from the time they get pre-approved to the time they [00:49:00] have their one year anniversary.

And, and I'm, I'm not saying that to brag or anything like that. I'm just saying like there's a system in place for us to get referrals, like develop it. Do what's right for you and your personality, but treat it like a business. Be the CEO of your own company, of your own business. Our industry doesn't mean you have to go out and have your own company.

You can work under a lot of different platforms where you're, you're your own boss. As long as you're compliant, you're just functioning within a platform, and that's totally fine, but it's your business. Act like it, it it, I think one of the biggest struggles I see is, and this is both realtors and mortgage advisors, when, you know, when a a, a real company goes into business, they have a marketing budget, right?

They have all sorts of different budgets in place, and then a realtor or a, or a mortgage advisor step into this role and they just step into it. [00:50:00] It's like, no budget for this, no follow up budget for your past clients. No nothing. You're just like, oh, I'm gonna go meet realtors, or I'm gonna go meet people that wanna buy a house.

I'm gonna go meet what? And, and you just put along, but you don't have a business plan. It's like you're setting up to fail

Ken Perry Raw Int: Totally.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: on that?

Ken Perry Raw Int: No, it's common. I I, I still remember when I was an account executive for a lender, you know, I would go to every conference they paid for me to go to, but I wasn't looking to build my, my stuff outside of that because I was just had an employee mindset and as soon as I started my own company, I'm like, wait, I have to pay for everything I go do.

Then I started thinking, okay, which one of these is gonna build business for me because I'm only paying for it if it's gonna make sense for me in the long run. And then I started looking at it and going, okay, well there's actually some good stuff out there that I could use to grow. And, and so thinking of it like your own business, no matter what in sales, you know, you're only as good as your last month.

And, and you've gotta build it up so that your next month is gonna be amazing and investment in yourself and, and the things that you need to do to get there. It's [00:51:00] huge. I just think you, what that takes is hope that that takes people having that hope and belief that if I do these things, it will lead to that.

Um, my favorite thing to ask in the company that, in our company is what if it works? So if you have a really good plan, cool. What if it works? What will that lead to? Like, you know, if you're, if you're doing a plan that could get you 20 deals a month, well, do you have the support staff, like you were saying, do you have the support team to build that?

Okay. What's your plan for the support team? And start like imagining out, okay, if it works, then we'll do this. Remember Groupon.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Yeah.

Ken Perry Raw Int: They're still there. But Groupon, there was some massive Groupon failures where companies shut down over Groupon because they did this deal where they're like, I'll give half off.

And then you give like half a Groupon, you make no money off that, and you're basically paying people to come, have an experience hoping that they're gonna keep coming back. Well, if you ask yourself, what if it works? Well, if it works, we're gonna sell a thousand haircuts. Sell a thousand haircuts, and we have five people cutting hair.

How long does that take? Like do the math to figure out if it, if it works, what then? [00:52:00] And a lot of companies didn't do that. And so if you can do it in your business planning and say, okay, I'm gonna go do these business building activities, I'm probably gonna get this amount of deals from that. If that works, then that's gonna lead to this, then that's gonna lead to this.

Same thing as lead gen. Do I need to be in an office? Do I need to be answering the phones all the time? So if I get leads, what do I do with that? And I can't tell you how many people, I've fed myself to a lead gen site on insurance and I'm like, call me. The amount of people that didn't call me blew my mind.

So if you're getting leads, what if, what if that works and you get a lead? What do you do? Then? Have it built. Have your plan structured out so that, you know, this leads to, that, leads to that. My favorite thing I do in my business is when I meet somebody and they say, we wanna have you come speak. I go, gimme your card.

And they hold their card out and I take a picture of it and I text Linda, you probably, I did this to you, I think, uh, and I text Linda and I'm like, Linda, I wanna be on this podcast. Make it happen. And then Linda's like, she's like a thousand for a thousand. She doesn't lose. [00:53:00] Um, as far as like getting me speaking gigs, she's always just like, fine, I got it.

I'll follow up from here and then I don't have to do another thing. So, so it's perfect, but build that type of system where it has to be easy for a loan officer to get that lead from the initial conversation to the funding with as little work from that loan officer as possible, as the loan officer can go do more stuff.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Yep. Yep. So, um, I want to start rounding it out so we can get to the end to actually my favorite question, but. I wanna know a little bit more about Knowledge Coop. I think everybody should. Um, it's a pretty cool company. I've looked into it. I've, I, I started watching some of the videos and now I understand why the videos have so much personality.

'cause, 'cause now I know who's behind it all. Uh, but amazing job with that would tell everybody what knowledge Coop is and why they should even use Knowledge Coop.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Yeah, so we. Like I said, we were just a training company up until 2012. 2012. We launched the technology called the Knowledge Coop. So before that it was called Broker [00:54:00] Knowledge Group, built by business in the broker world, helping, uh, brokers get the training they needed. Uh, in 2012, we became the knowledge coop because our technology got launched and, and everybody just started calling us the Knowledge Coop.

It technically was the name of the technology we launched. Um, and so it's a software, uh, that is run by. So enterprises have their own unique instance of the software. We are the intranet, the training portal, the AI portal, the uh, internal messaging portal. So everything in a company exists inside of their coop.

And so then what we'll do is we'll create training and our clients will grab our training and assign it to their people and add their training to assign to their people. And so inside one platform, all of your internal training, all of your internal communications, um, all of that happens there, uh, as well as all of your pre-licensing and continuing education within the mortgage space.

Um, so that's kind of the, the software.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Okay. And I want, and, and afterwards I want to ask you some more questions about it, uh,

Ken Perry Raw Int: yeah.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: just 'cause I have a bunch, but, uh, [00:55:00] but now I want to get to some of the fun stuff. Um, first just your favorite book.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Of all time.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Yeah.

Ken Perry Raw Int: The Bible wins that one no matter what. And, and specifically Ecclesiastes,

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Okay.

Ken Perry Raw Int: meaningless. Meaningless. All is meaningless. It's just a chasing after the wind. Uh, so if I'm going outside the Bible, my favorite book ever is a book by a guy named Tim Sanders, and it's called Love is the Killer App.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Oh yeah, I've heard of that. I haven't, I don't think

Ken Perry Raw Int: my gosh. You gotta read it. It's so good. Um, and he actually, we had him during, during COVID, when we were in lockdown, we did a digital mortgage conference, which was. One of the best things we've ever done. And Tim came and spoke at the Digital Mortgage Conference. He's just a great dude. But love is a killer app is a, is a cool, it's, it's the model for how I do business is, um, just be awesome to people and, and go out there and, and make friends.

And, um, and so that's not, that's a bad summary of the book, but read the book. It's awesome. [00:56:00] Uh, that would be my favorite business book.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: I, I will. Um, so this is actually my favorite question.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Okay.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: If I put the loan officer cap back on you. I said, Hey Ken, I'm gonna pick you up and I'm gonna drop you off somewhere. Somewhere where you don't know anybody and I'm not gonna let you go visit your family or anything until after you make a million dollars doing loans.

Right? You have all the knowledge you have. You only have a little bit of money, just enough to get by, right? Like you can't just throw a lot of money at it. How are you going to make a million dollars doing loans in detail? If you could, like

Ken Perry Raw Int: That's easy. No, that's super easy. Um, I would just, I would, I would educate everybody like that. I would, I would speak to every real estate company I could, um, and provide them with the knowledge they need to be better at their jobs. Um, under respite, I can do it legally. Um, so I would educate as much as I can, be the expert, I gather, brainstorm groups [00:57:00] and say, how are we gonna get through this market?

Everybody? It sucks for everybody. So how do we figure it out as a group, um, team with as many people as I can to build that, that knowledge base and grow the industry in an understanding of where the market is, where it's going, what it's doing next. So that's what I would do. I would just become famous in the real estate world by speaking to real estate people.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: So let's, so I guess, uh, first you're going after purchase business. You're going after referral business, real estate agents. But now let's just get a little more granular with it. 'cause easy to say, but remember, nobody knows you. Why would they let you come in and speak? Like, what's your plan there? How are you going to get, and you don't have Linda to go make that call and book it

Ken Perry Raw Int: Right, right. I

Dino Int with Ken Perry: right?

Like, you gotta do this yourself. And so let's let, let's say for example, do you go heavy into social media so when they look you up, they, there's, there's proof.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Oh, do I have to build it from scratch? Now I don't have all of my social proof.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: no, you don't have all that.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Ah, social

Dino Int with Ken Perry: you're a nobody. You're

Ken Perry Raw Int: Oh my [00:58:00] gosh. Okay.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: And, and the, the purpose of this is anybody new can look at it and say, okay, I can do this.

Or anybody that. Sure they know people, but, but they're not doing much, right? They're just barely getting, and I don't want them to leave the industry. If they can do better, what are we going to teach them? How are they going to do it?

Ken Perry Raw Int: Here's the funny thing. When I first started my company, I, my first speech ever, I didn't mean to be a speaker. My first, my first speech ever. Um, I got that gig because I was having lunch with somebody who's a friend of mine and she said, do you do, do you speak? And I'm like, of course I do.

And she goes, great. What do you speak on? I'm like, why are you asking? She said, we have this conference coming up in the fall. I want, we need a speaker for that. And I said, cool, what do you need a speech on? And they, she said something like compliance related. And I'm like, well, the do not call laws just passed.

So, uh, I could, I could speak on that. It's not for like three months. I could research it by then. And she's like, perfect. And that's how I got my first gig. So the key point for you here is I asked, [00:59:00] what is it you guys need to learn? And then I became the expert on the thing they needed to learn. And I still to this day, am one of the foremost experts in the mortgage industry on that law.

'cause it was my first, and you never forget your first, so ask, I would ask a realtor, I would ask a realtor group. I would ask. Insurance. Like, what is it you need? Like what do you not know and what do you need help with? And, and then work to be that expert for them. Because people, dude, at the end of the day, everybody just watches Game of Thrones.

Everybody just gets home and, and they're not killing it. Most people are not killing it. And so they're not out there researching these things. They need somebody to do that for 'em. A lot of people can't, they, they struggle to research. So that's the piece that I would bring and then grow it from there out.

Like, who else needs to be at this thing? If we're gonna, if I'm gonna come in and talk to your, your, you know, first time home buyers about what that means, who else needs to be there? What other realtors should we pull into this conversation? And that's just 'cause that when we, my first, my new loan officer class, I started it with a credit report, [01:00:00] uh, expert, a appraisal expert, like these people were just friends of mine.

And I had him come in and speak for an hour on their area and all of them built their business in the mortgage industry. My insurance agent built his mortgage business. Through teaching in my class on insurance education leads to trust, which leads to business.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: I'm gonna write that one down.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Oh, awesome.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Education. Say it again.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Leads to trust, which leads to good business. Like once they trust you, it's like, Hey, do you have, I mean, the only reason I did my second speech was because my first one went really well. And they're like, what else do you have? So, but, but again, it's to the gifts, right? My, I know my gift is speaking and so if you're g if you're scares you to death to stand up in front of a group, I'm not one of those who's like, but you can get better now.

You're probably not gonna get better. Like some do, but for the most part, it, that's not it, right? What is it? Um, and I've got, do, I have a friend who does CEO round table type stuff, and he does [01:01:00] succession planning for companies. He's amazing. He can run a group of six people, like nothing I've ever seen. I cannot do that.

I can't have six people in a room and like, I just get stressed out about like, where are we going? Like, but he loves just pulling stuff out of people. And you look at how Daniel Harkavy does something like that. Certain people are just genius at that. Then they need to be doing that as much as possible.

And so find that genius. You've got

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Find that genius. I just did a, a webinar with Craig Davis on locking in Your genius. Uh, do you coach at all?

Ken Perry Raw Int: Never. Nope. I am, I have one, um, one guy that I'm mentoring, when I spoke at Mastermind this year, he came up and asked if I would mentor him, and I'm like, yep, you'll, you'll love this. Before I went on stage, I prayed and I said, God, I just want one person. I wanna change one life today. Bring me that person at the end of this thing.

He walks up to me and he goes, [01:02:00] Hey, I really appreciate what you said. I was talking about winning, isn't numbers winning? Is are you winning at life? Do your, does your family love you? Does everybody around you like, and he came up and he is like, I just, you know, I'm, I'm you like 20 years ago. And I go and he goes, would you mentor me?

And I'm like, yep. And he is like, really? What? And I go, yeah. And he goes, what do you charge? And I go, I don't, I said, I asked God to send you to me. And I can't say no now because this is him answering that, that prayer. So he is like, okay. And so now we, it's a, I love, love mentoring, but I'll never coach.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Why not? You'd be great at

Ken Perry Raw Int: Um, did the same reason I can't join a lot of groups is 'cause I don't have Tuesday at four.

Like I don't have, I, there's no week. I travel almost every week. There's no week where I wanna sit down at a, at a desk and, and, and talk to somebody. The reason my mentoring works is 'cause he'll just text me and be like, Hey dude, we talk. I'm like, yep, let's go. Like, I just can't. Normal normalcy of a schedule of coaching is just too tough.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: You know, my, [01:03:00] my, uh, retirement vision is

Ken Perry Raw Int: What's that?

Dino Int with Ken Perry: so I love boating and I sold my boat, um, earlier this year so I can keep funding ethos lending and, and making a go of it, you know.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Mm-hmm.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: So that, that saying of the best day of a boat owners' lives the day they buy in, the day they sell it. I'm just like, total horse. You know what?

Right. Like so not true. You're just wearing a real boater. Like it's obviously you were, it wasn't the right thing for you. I was so sad when I sold it. Right. I wanted to sell our, our our, uh, vacation property. My wife's like, are you kidding me? Would you ever, ever tell a client to do that? Like, no. She goes, and I'm like, yeah, but the boat, I can make money with the boat.

Like I, I take people out on it Didn't work. I had to sell the boat, but. The vision is to go by a better boat, a bigger boat. And when I'm retired, basically one day a week and, [01:04:00] and I start early, so it's like the 6:00 AM crew shows up, whoever that, whoever I'm coaching, and six, we go out on a harbor cruise around Newport, six to eight.

I I drop that person off at eight. Next person comes at nine, nine to 11, and then I have lunch with the next person. And I just do that like three or four in one day. I call it a day. And that's, that's my vision of retirement

Ken Perry Raw Int: Wow. I could do that on a golf course. I could see, I could see doing golf coaching

Dino Int with Ken Perry: golf coach.

Ken Perry Raw Int: holes. I could see that

Dino Int with Ken Perry: So

Ken Perry Raw Int: then you're doing what you love to do and you're just doing it and, and also doing coaching. I, I do like that idea.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Yeah, I've, I've done that before. Um, I've coached on, on the boat before and it's such a. An environment for somebody to think big and just like Phil Jones, right? Just imagine. And you can do that when you're on the water. You can just imagine what it could look like. And I think that's such an amazing thing, not for

Ken Perry Raw Int: you're being the way [01:05:00] point for people.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Yep. Yep. Well, listen, man, I wanna thank you so much for coming on. That was awesome. Love talking to you. Uh, actually, I'm not ready to go yet, man. I got one more question for you. I got one more last one though. I promise. If you have time, you got time.

Ken Perry Raw Int: I do. Yeah.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Okay. Last one. I, so you and I joined a little, we formed a little group.

Uh, it's our AI fight club as we're calling it, I think. Um,

Ken Perry Raw Int: far.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: yeah, so far, but I'm, I'm geeking out on ai. I know you've geeked out on ai. Tell me where, um, where you're at right now. Uh, some of the stuff you're working on it, you're super excited about or even like. Haven't quite figured out, but you want to just motivate me a little bit.

Ken Perry Raw Int: Um, I'm, you know, what, where we're working in ai, it's more because our company has always been the storage facility for all of your corporate documents, all of your corporate training, all that stuff. Where we're working in AI is making that more searchable using [01:06:00] ai, right? So we're using a tool to, uh, that we've created to basically if you say, you know, do we have Valentine's Day off next year?

It will answer that for you based on your company's policies, right? So, and your company's stuff like that. So that's literally, that's all we're doing as a company in ai, is we're building out, uh, internal communication structures, stuff like that for ai. Um, I'm excited about it in so many ways, just in the way that it's working.

But when I look at it, I, I, I, when I go into anything, I go straight global and then I try to dive in from the global, right? I have to understand the whole concept of what is it we're doing and where can it go? And then, and then dive in and figure out what I'm gonna use. So I have a lot of friends, like we are in a group chat recently where it's like, are we even speaking English right now?

It was so funny. Um, and I have a lot of friends that that's how they do it. They dive deep, whereas I go wide and then I figure out where I wanna go deep. Um, but I'm, I mean, I'm, I'm legit scared of where this is all gonna end, as you saw in the group chat. Um, I don't believe it's gonna be good and in [01:07:00] the end, but I believe from now to then, if you don't study it, if you don't understand it, you are absolutely screwed.

Like if you do not, if you think AI's not, you know, there's still people that say, I tried AI once, it gave me the wrong answer. Okay. Um, if that's you, you're screwed. Like that's not ai, like you didn't do it right. Right. So, so everybody needs to be diving in and figuring out what, what it means for them, especially parents.

Um, because kids know AI more than parents do right now, and this is a very scary time. You know, you're giving a kid way too much in there. Like they've got so much ability within there to do good and to do bad. And it's, it's the worst thing ever when, when managed incorrectly. Just like any tool, it can be used for really good, it could be used for really bad.

And I think there's, there's a danger in the world when it comes to seeing AI as companions, um, and, and starting to build relationships with something that isn't real. [01:08:00] So, and you'll have to burn this when we're done because of it in the future, if it finds out I called it not real back in 2025, it's gonna take me out.

So

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Oh man. I love it. All right, dude. Well thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate it. And anybody wants to get ahold of you? Just Ken Perry, knowledge coop, Google it, ai it

Ken Perry Raw Int: Yeah, or look at my Instagram's a D, adhd, CEO.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: A-D-H-D-C-E-O. I love it.

Ken Perry Raw Int: It's also my license plate.

Dino Int with Ken Perry: Nice. Alright dude, well thank you so much for coming on and you guys, I hope you enjoyed this show. Um, I hope you enjoyed Ken 'cause he is obviously all personality and um, and has so much to say follow him because he is actually quite fun to follow as well and you guys will enjoy every bit of it.

Look up knowledge coop if, if you're a business owner and you want to implement it into your company and don't forget to go to some of these mortgage events 'cause Ken speaks at a lot of 'em and, and he is great up on stage. Like truly he's great up on stage. So [01:09:00] thank you guys. Casey, you didn't know we are here to empower equipment, educate you the way lending should be done and how to just be a good human.

So thank you so much. If you guys enjoyed it, please get on social media, like it, comment, share it, do all that good stuff for us.