Stop Hiding Behind Tech: The Truth About Growth in Today’s Market with Natalie Overturf

What actually separates top producers from everyone else in today’s market?

In this episode of The Way with Dino Katsiametis, Dino sits down with Natalie Overturf, CEO and Founder of Ethos Lending, to break down the real drivers behind long-term success in the mortgage and real estate industry.

From starting as a 19-year-old receptionist to becoming a top-producing leader, Natalie shares hard-earned lessons on scaling a business, building elite teams, and mastering relationships in a tech-driven world.

This conversation challenges the industry obsession with tools and automation—and replaces it with a simple truth:

👉 The people who win are the ones who execute, build relationships, and stay disciplined.

If you're a loan officer, entrepreneur, or sales professional looking to grow in a competitive market, this episode is a blueprint for sustainable success.

🔑 Key Takeaways & Bullet Points

• Why relationships—not technology—are still the #1 driver of business
• The real reason most loan officers stay stuck (and how to break through)
• How to scale from $30M to $100M+ by building the right team
• The importance of investing in yourself (coaching, hiring, systems)
• Why discipline and daily execution outperform any “strategy”
• The exact mindset shift needed to grow in a down market
• How to leverage social media + networking the right way
• Why most originators fail to adopt technology effectively
• The difference between a loan officer vs. a true mortgage advisor
• How top producers build consistent pipelines regardless of market conditions

Thanks for listening to "The Way With Dino Katsiametis"  
 For full show notes, links, and extra episode resources, visit dinokatsiametis.com.
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instagram.com/dinokatsiametis | linkedin.com/in/dinokatsiametis
Learn more about Ethos Lending at ethoslending.com.  

Transcript

Dino Natale Raw: Natalie, thank you for joining me today. How are you?

Natale. Rawmp4: I am doing fantastic. Thank you for asking.

Dino Natale Raw: Awesome. So listen, I'm just gonna jump right in here and say, who the heck is Natalie over?

Natale. Rawmp4: Well, that's a great question. So I am, um, well, today I am a mother of twin daughters that are 21. They're gonna be seniors in college this coming fall, which is just insane that it's going that fast. I've been married for t it'll be 28 years, May 2nd, married to my sweetheart. We live in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

Uh, we've lived here since 2009 is when we, we moved here. So we live in north Idaho, kind of to, in the panhandle, uh, almost to Canada, up here in little resort town. I started in the business in 1990. Three and, um, 93. I'm just trying, yes, 93. [00:01:00] I was a college dropout. I had gone to school for two years. I graduated pretty young.

I graduated 17 and, uh, went to college and just, uh, was very poor and wanted to make some money and so I decided to drop out, save some money, and then had some aspirations to go to college, maybe in Hawaii and maybe, you know, do something different. And then I got a temporary receptionist position at US Bank's mortgage Division.

And that's how I started in the business, was as a temporary receptionist. And it happened to be, if you remember, I don't know you, you way later than me, I'm pretty sure, if I recall, yeah, 98. So in the, in the early nineties is when rates had dropped right after, you know, rates had been quite high. And so they were in the mid sevens high, you know, mid, you know, seven a quarter, seven and a half.

And everybody was refinancing. And so they needed a processor 'cause they were at capacity. So they asked me like two weeks after I started. If I wanted to move into processing. And I said, will you pay me more money? And they said yes. It's like, okay, I'll take the job, [00:02:00] I'll do it. So that's how I started.

And I will never forget, I sat in a bullpen, uh, it was like one of those banking centers, you know, you had the desks and I was kind of in the front and then a processor and underwriter in a funder. Like we all sat together and I remember our closer said one time, she's like, I need to get these, and this is paper file days.

Like, you know, the thick files that you, you shipped out before electronic files. And I remember her saying, we need to get all of our loans up to Fannie Mae. We gotta get 'em delivered. And I turned around. I finally like, I was so curious. I turned around, I'm like, who is Fannie Mae? And do we like her? Like, is she, are we friends?

So, and that was kind of my first introduction on Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, like, they just laughed at me. I was very young. I was 19 and. Um, my start and really from there, um, I went to a realtor, sipper, S-I-P-P-E-R, um, sipper and uh, with one of my loan officers, he wanted to take me and introduce me to his agents, and so I went to that with [00:03:00] him and I met a gal.

Dino Natale Raw: classic sales guy. By the way, let's bring the young hot girl to to, to get everybody to wanna come talk to me.

Natale. Rawmp4: Probably back a little bit. 'cause I met this woman, her name was Ray Bir. I mean she's retired now, but Ray Birch and she was with, uh, Pacific First Bank at the time. And we started chatting. She asked me what I did and I told her, she's like, you are in the wrong job. You need to be a loan officer.

And I'm like, well, you pay me more money 'cause that's really all I cared about. I just wanted to earn money to go back to school. And she's like, well, let's talk about it. So she get got my phone number and I was still living at home 'cause I had, uh, you know, I was 19. I was trying to earn money to go back to school.

And I got home from work one day and my mom's like Ray called, she wants you to call her back. So I called Ray, we had lunch and the rest is history. She hired me. Um, I started two weeks later and that was my start into being a loan officer. Uh,

Dino Natale Raw: so at 19 though, you were only 19 when you became a loan

Natale. Rawmp4: I was 19. And I've

Dino Natale Raw: you even get anybody to trust you?

Natale. Rawmp4: it's, it's such a good question.

[00:04:00] For one, I am very tall and that seems irrelevant, but I'm almost six foot tall and. I've always been, I would say, mature for my age. I've always hung around older people. I feel like I carried myself in a way that people were shocked when they found out how old I was. In fact, she wound up checking with HR to make sure it was okay that she even hired me when she found out how old I was.

So, uh, so it definitely wasn't on purpose that they hired me. That, yeah, I was almost 20. So, um, but yes, it was, I was very young in the business and made a lot of really dumb mistakes because I was so young. For one, I didn't know rates would go up, so I did not save any of my money. And, uh, in 94, uh, rates went into the nines and I like, was broke, you know, had no money 'cause I spent it all and kind of had to hit reset.

And, uh, I actually made a video about this. I talk about my, I had just, my husband now was my boyfriend at the time. [00:05:00] And I had gotten offered a job to be an in-house loan officer with John L. Scott in, in the Portland Vancouver market, which was about three hours from us. And it was just an opportunity to kind of go in-house and build relationships and, um, I'd never really worked that way and he loaned me $300 so that I could move to Vancouver and get an apartment.

And, uh, it was a pretty good ROI on that investment. Uh, I would say at this point what money well spent. Um, but that's how I got to Vancouver and that was really what I call my take to in lending where I became very relationship oriented realtors, builders. And I was 23, so a little bit older. Um, it was just a different day though, in that time where you could start out and not, the business has gotten so much more complex, uh, I feel like in the last, you know, 10 to 15 years.

The competitive landscape's a lot different. Uh, I, I don't wanna say it was [00:06:00] easier, it was just different, and I was able to find a way into the market at 23, which I think would be very, very difficult right now for someone that needs to come in. Uh,

Dino Natale Raw: You know, I don't, I don't, not not to disagree with you. I don't know if I agree. I think it was harder back then because there wasn't as much technology. So you really did have to like, know your stuff, right? You, you

Natale. Rawmp4: that's true. That's actually a really good point. That's

Dino Natale Raw: Yeah. And I mean, I remember the way I made my way, right? Like what, how I forged my path was figuring out how to do the tough stuff.

Figuring out how to, how to do something that somebody else failed at and how to do it quickly. And then you do that one time, you win 'em over, you do it again a few more times, and then it's done right. But, but now I see a lot of loan officers that, and man, I, I, I shouldn't say man, right? I. I don't know how they're even doing this job.

I, I, [00:07:00] I look at how they do things and, and unfortunately I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that they're working off their cell phone now and, and they can't function. You just can't function the same way on your cell phone. So we had a situation recently where, um, you know, the, the, the loan was disclosed improperly, the rate lock was done improperly, everything.

And he's like, where's my money? And it's like, you're the one that did this. Come, come to find out that he didn't do it, his processor did, but she was upset because he forced her to do it and, and now she's taking heat for something he should have done. And Sure. You know, sure enough, it's because he was on his cell phone and he couldn't do it.

Natale. Rawmp4: right.

Dino Natale Raw: And I feel like, you know, before. We didn't do that, right? Like we, we were in an office all the time. If we were out, we were out. But we were always back at an office and we had the computer and we had our paper files. And as much as I love technology, there is something magical about, uh, a [00:08:00] folder. Yeah, there you go.

And, and being able to see that top sheet with all the instructions all the time, and the color coding that we processors had. And I mean, I, I thought it worked, right? And, and

Natale. Rawmp4: Well, it did for us. It, I mean, we're in a different generation now and it's interesting 'cause I have 21-year-old twin daughters and one of them is a computer science major, uh, at Columbia. So she's kind of really in the heart and the inflection point of what's happening with technology today. So I don't even really think we've seen the tip of the iceberg based on my conversations with her on where AI and tech is going.

But what, in fact, I, um, I had, I wrote an article for Chrisman, it actually came out today. Uh, ironically enough, it was in the Chrisman commentary. I really do believe that relationship. What will win even in the face of technology, and I agree 100% with you, if we're hiding behind our phone, the text messages, the emails, the laptop, that you won't be in the business in [00:09:00] two years and a year, it's gonna become that much harder.

We're already starting to see a massive separation between the top and the bottom. And you see it, I'm sure, in your company, right? I mean, I saw Barry Habi put out a stat that showed you just to be in the top 50% of originators. The top half, that bottom metric is 5 million a year. So the top, the very bottom of the top 50% is only doing 5 million a year at volume.

So what's that bottom 50% doing? And will they be here? I don't think so. So I think you're gonna continue to see people weed out because they're missing the forest through the trees, which is, the relationship is what matters. It's why, that's why we're on this podcast, right? We're we're building relationships and we wanna do people.

Do, do business with people we know, like, and trust.

Dino Natale Raw: I agree. I, you know, I, I am in love with technology. Like I'm not gonna deny that. And I, and I'm in it all the time and I'm really trying hard every single day to create [00:10:00] something easier, something more, something, all that. But I also, and, and. We, my wife is starting to come aboard, she's jumping onto my train a little bit 'cause she's seeing the, but in the beginning, man, whoa.

She had a lot of like resistance towards it. And she was getting upset at me about,

Natale. Rawmp4: you're talking about

Dino Natale Raw: about AI

Natale. Rawmp4: Ah, got it. Okay.

Dino Natale Raw: technology, right? And, and I'm trying to teach my kids how to lean into, and she's like, whoa, whoa, do not do that to my kids. And, you know, and, and she's like, I need them to learn how to critical think. I need them to learn how to like, you know, trust themselves.

And, and I'm like, I agree wholeheartedly, but you gotta realize this is where everything's going. And I'm, and here's where when we get to, to the technology side, it's like people read the first paragraph of whatever, you know, product they're using and it's like, oh, that's, that's amazing. And they don't even bother reading the rest.

I think that's where you fail. Now I'm gonna go [00:11:00] back to the, the relationship piece of it. I believe if you learn how to use technology properly, not only can you get way more work done in a shorter period of time, but if you do that, you can also allow yourself a lot more free time to actually focus on relationship.

So I believe it's a tool that'll give you back the time to focus on one-on-one or, or groups or family or whatever. I truly, truly believe this is gonna be what's gonna reverse the entire I'm so busy

Natale. Rawmp4: Yes, yes.

Dino Natale Raw: be able to get people back with their family, back with their kids, back with their friends, right back to visiting their mom.

Natale. Rawmp4: I, we're in agreement there. I do think, but I also think on the other side of that, I think people are too worried about making sure they have the latest, greatest tool, because that's not, that's almost deflection. It's not what's gonna get you the business, what's gonna get you the business. It's [00:12:00] getting out in front of your real estate agents, your builders, your calling, your past clients, and your database.

Um, I do a, a Monday success spotlight call for my team every week, and I usually have two to three originators come on and share for five, 10 minutes what they're doing that to have success in the market and. Not one strategy has anything to do with ai other than teaching classes on how realtors and others can use AI to be more proficient and, you know, have higher productivity.

Do I think that'll be the same in a year or two? I, I don't think I can say for sure one way or the other, but today that is not what is getting business, what is, unless you're in lead generation shop, and maybe that's different, but true self source street warriors, we're still needing to be face to face, eye to eye, toe to toe to really build those relationships.

And social media is a huge part of that. I'm a big believer in, in social media. LinkedIn is where I've pretty much gone, you know, for, for my social media presence. And it's paid a lot of dividends for me in helping me build relations. I've reached out to you on LinkedIn, [00:13:00] right? So, um, it's, it's really paid a lot of dividends for me professionally.

Dino Natale Raw: I, I went to a, um, a realtor mastermind, um, probably couple years ago, I guess now. And they had a panel up there of maybe six or seven realtors. Um, all of them high achievers, right? And one by one. How much you know did you do last year? How many units? Dollar volume, right? Like 60 million, 70 million, 50 million, blah, blah, blah.

And then they get to this old guy, Jerry, in my area over here in Orange County, and, and I forget his number exactly, but it's 170 million. Pretty much all the questions were going all to him after that. Like nobody cared about the $50 million guy anymore. I wanna know what you do. And he was over 70 years old.

He was a beast. Just a total beast. And what was interesting was, uh, uh, I'll, I'll fast forward through a lot of the story, but you know, what [00:14:00] technology do you use? And he reaches, he is so like, perfectly dressed in a, in a nice suit. He reaches into his pocket, pulls out his phone, he's like, I got, I got a, a telephone here that isn't plugged into anything.

Like, cool, that's his technology, right? And then they asked him what his social media strategy is, and he is like, I don't face twat or book something. I, he goes, I don't do any of that. He goes, I just talked to people. And, and then his calendar was not in here. He had a, a, it wasn't even a day planner. He literally had probably about 300 pages all put together about this thick in an, in a huge accu clip.

He's like, everything I'm going to do today is right here. Everything I'm going to do tomorrow is right here, and everything I'm gonna do next month is right here. He goes, I know everything I'm going to do to the T for the next 30 days. [00:15:00] Without a doubt, the only time I ever sway off of this is when somebody says I want to sell my house.

Because ultimately that's my number one goal. Everything I do here is to get somebody to say, I want to sell your house. That's the only time I'll cancel anything else to do this. And it got me thinking so much about, um, about all of us, right? Like I, I'm also, uh, a failure at this at times, and I'm really good at it at other times, but it's not spending so much time on strategy and campaigns and, you know, the, the workflows and then this and then that.

It's like, just pick up the darn phone and make a phone

Natale. Rawmp4: That's

Dino Natale Raw: You will achieve so much more. Like, and that's old school. And I don't think that'll ever really change unless you are more consumer direct, right? You're lead based, but,

Natale. Rawmp4: And there'll always be a space for consumer direct that's not new. Consumer direct is always, I mean, how long has Con Consumer Direct been around? It's been around forever, since I've been in the business. So [00:16:00] since they have different strategies, more sophisticated strategies to get to the consumer at this point in time, and, and I do think we do need to adopt te the technology that's available and the tools that our companies are s are investing in so that we can keep up and keep pace with the productivity with.

In fact, I got to see a sneak peek of our agent, our agent AI assistant that will be rolling where, you know, you'll have an agent, AI assistant that'll be able to schedule, calendar and appointments for you, take first phone calls. Like I think those kind of things will be amazing when the two, when the bugs are worked out and they, and they work well, we shouldn't roll that technology until it's perfected if, especially if it's consumer facing in my opinion.

Um, but there's a lot of things that are, I think we're all gonna see in the next. 12 to 18 months come out in that front. But that will just help us to your point, be able to be out in person on webinars, zoom calls, whatever that might [00:17:00] be, to be able to spend more time focusing on the relationship part of it.

Um.

Dino Natale Raw: of that, I, um, just before we started recording, I did a quick, um, loom video on my end just to show the loan officers here the tools that we already have. And even though we have 'em, they're not using them. So I made a really big push early this morning. I was like, listen, I'm turning this feature.

We have, uh, our internal, uh, messaging. It's, it's something called Rome and it's how we just instead of teams or, or Slack or anything like that, right? We do, we use that and it has transcripts available and people were complaining about, oh, it's too intrusive, and I'm like. We don't see anything. These are for you.

And, and one of my, my COO turned it off, right? Like, oh, people are getting upset. I'm like, why are you getting upset? Like, they don't realize how important these transcripts are. So I did a video or I [00:18:00] did a, a message this morning saying, I'm turning it back on. Just so you guys know, you can turn it off if you don't want a certain call or a certain conversation being recorded.

And also, so, you know, I don't get to see any of that stuff, like it's totally your stuff, but here's why it's so important. Everything now for our future is going to be transcripts. So if, if AI doesn't know what was said, then it won't know. So get off of your cell phone. Start using the actual tools that are provided because it's set up for a reason.

These transcripts are super important. Let that be right. And then I said, we got some really cool stuff coming and, and it just won't work for you if you're not doing it. I waited. And then later this afternoon, just a little bit ago, I actually, uh, I went in and I did a client consultation, which I never even do anymore, but I did one last week.

And I was like, all right, I'm gonna test it and I'm gonna do it on video so [00:19:00] everybody can watch how it worked. And, and I usually like old school as I would take all my notes and, you know, and I have a certain pattern that I always do. And, and my LOA always knows it doesn't matter, uh, how bad my writing is, which it's not, but he always knows what it means because I've been doing it the same way for 28 years, you know, and, and, and he's like, if it's there, that's what it means.

That's how Dino works. But my new method is stop taking notes, focus in. Look right, look right into that camera and stare at them and ask them the questions and have conversations with them and, and be like, fully engaged in it and stop worrying about anything else. And, and I said, so what you're gonna have to get really good at is asking questions that'll get you the answers that AI is gonna need and that you're gonna need.

And I said, forget the checklist of what's on the loan app. If you're trying to do that, start taking a loan app by just asking questions, [00:20:00] without asking questions like a, like a robot. Soon as it was over, I created a, a template for my AI and my, uh, as AI assistant. And there it is. It had it all broken down and perfect every like little category.

And I said, now if you want, you can even say, create an email. Give me a needs list. And, and it's, it has, we have that capability now. But the reason why you can't do that is because you're not doing this. Then I said, watch this. Watch how cool this is based on this conversation. Give me what their disc profile is with the confidence score.

And then I said, based on this conversation, gimme their top two love languages and a confidence score.

Natale. Rawmp4: so cool. I would've not even thought to do that.

Dino Natale Raw: and then I said, give me five emails that I can send them right now in a, in a, you know, campaign, [00:21:00] um, based on their disc profile and their love language so that they can hear my message.

And then I got my five emails in a row. So I said to, I said to everybody in this video, I'm like, here's what's coming. You guys forget all the templated BS that's out there. We're talking personalization on everything. Now. It won't know the disc profile, it won't know the love language if you just send somebody a link and say, fill this out.

They're not gonna know that, and they're not even gonna know, it's not gonna know or be able to gauge confidently if you don't even ask the right questions, if you don't engage in good conversation. So what I think everybody should be working on right now is learning how to be a better human and a better communicator.

And, and if you can learn how to do that, you're gonna see magic flowing on the backend. And guess what? That's 30 minutes worth of work that just got cut outta your day.

Natale. Rawmp4: that's right. Well, and you can provide some of that information to [00:22:00] your agent, like birthdays, you know, how many kids they have, like what their interests and hobbies are like. You can capture that information and then go to your realtor and provide that value. Say, Hey, you might wanna know these things about your client.

I mean, there are so many ways that we can make the process more seamless and easier for our client and for us to know them and to share that information with our referral partners and to add more value to our referral partners. I agree 100%. But once again, they've gotta pick up the phone and call their agents and their clients and, you know, not high behind the tech.

But it is, I will say it's the biggest obstacle right now in our industry. When, uh, you know, the average Asian murderer, I think originators late forties, maybe early fifties, I see it kind of bounce around. Is adoption of technology. Right. It will be our challenge. So we have younger people coming in. I have hired some, um, younger originators this last, uh, five years.

I even have one that's in her late twenties and is actually doing quite well. So, so [00:23:00] it's bringing the average age down. They're much more eager to adopt the tools in the tech than some of our, my age originators are. It's harder for us 'cause we've done it one way, uh, for so long, but it's really critical.

As much as I say the relationships matter, you have to have the, the technology on the other side of it to be relevant.

Dino Natale Raw: So, so real quick just to like pause for a second for everybody listening, hope you guys heard all of this because just know I'm in love with technology, right? Na, Natalie's been around for a long time, hugely successful, and, and so much of what she does and what are we talking about? We're talking about old school.

Pick up the phone, talk to people. Heck even go out and visit people. Do not ever neglect this part of the business. And, and if you're a legion person, hey, I get it right? Like. It's totally different. I, I don't even know how to talk to lead gen people, right? Because they don't [00:24:00] call me trusting me already the way that Natalie and I have done business for all these years.

You have to realize it's, there's all, because we've done business a certain way when a new person that doesn't know us comes to us, they already trust us. And, and I can tell you right now that lead gen's great and you can make a ton of money doing it, and you can lose a ton of money doing it. And you can go outta business every single time.

The rates go up and then you can go sell cars and then come right back again. I, I get it. Like all of that's capable of, of doing, right? But Natalie and I have longevity in the business and yes, we also make less money at certain times, but we always have a, um, a, a floor that's not down here. Our floor is here all the time, and all of you can achieve that.

But. Go out and create relationships. Go out and change how you do business, change how you care about people. And truly, I think this is one of the most important things, care [00:25:00] about people. Love your clients, love your referral partners. And, and I've, I used to have a processor one time and I was, I was like, dude, I go, do you love our, our clients?

And he is like, look at him. You know, like, strong word, do you like our clients? Right? And, and, and he is like, what do you want me to say? And at the end of the day, here's the deal. I'm like, how do you not? I go, they, they bought my house, they bought my car. They like raised my children, right? They, they've sent me to Hawaii.

They did all of that stuff. How do you not love them? So whenever I hear loan officers say, can't stand realtors, you know, they're always so pushy and they're this and they're that. I don't have any pushy realtors, none. They're fantastic. And it's not because I I kiss their butt or anything like that. It's because I do my job, right?

If you do your job right and you tell them what they need to know [00:26:00] and don't leave them hanging, guess what? They're not gonna call you and complain. They're not gonna call you and ask. They're not gonna call you and like, ruin your life because you did what you were supposed to do. So change how you do business.

Natale. Rawmp4: Yeah, no, I, I just could not agree any anymore. Um, and realtors, I mean, they're in the same boat we are. They're trying to make a living. They're trying to support their families, uh, and people, I mean, it really bugs me when people say they hate realtors. Realtors control 40 to 50% of a buyer's decision on what lender they, what lender they use, and if they're giving, you know, if they get a client that's got the rocket, um, pre-approval, you know, most agents wanna get them to a local lender because they understand rocket on a purchase is not a great option.

So we, we need agents. They're, uh, they're important to the process. They're important to our business. And it really, you know, I feel like if you're not, you're overlooking the biggest single source of referrals if you're not targeting and focusing on good realtor [00:27:00] relationships.

Dino Natale Raw: Yeah, a hundred percent. So let's, let's go. I think you're 23 years old now. Um, I think right? You're, you're now. When, when did that like transition happen where all of a sudden you were like kicking in, all of a sudden you were getting deals and you're starting to make some money. How old were you at this point?

Natale. Rawmp4: Yeah. So it took, I would say a good two to three years for me to really get momentum, um, in my business. I mean, I remember my first $10,000 check, and this was, I mean, this was a long time ago

Dino Natale Raw: Yeah, that's a lot of money.

Natale. Rawmp4: was a lot of money. And

Dino Natale Raw: Probably more than your dad made.

Natale. Rawmp4: well, and my dad's a nuclear engineer, so my dad never made the kind of money that I've been able to make in this industry, and he's a nuclear scientist.

So, um, but it took probably a good two to three years, I would say, to really get that momentum. And I mean, once you get it, you're just addicted, right? That's the. It's [00:28:00] just the magic thing that happens where you just hit your groove and your stride. But I certainly have been through the ups and downs of this industry.

You know, we had the oh 8, 0 9, you know, crisis, and then, you know, well everything in between. So here we are in 2021 and 20, uh, coming out 21 to 22 and 23. We're not easy markets. So, um, I feel like I have lived like nine lives in this industry. Uh, when I look back, my, my career trajectory really went from, you know, once I kind of had that restart, you know, for my career.

I, you know, was a top producer for a long time. I got recruited by, um, I wound up gonna work for First Horizon Home Loans. I don't know if you remember First Horizon, but, um, they, they wound up being, um, sold to MetLife, uh, during the financial meltdown crisis. So anyways, I was there when that happened, but I became a producing branch manager there.

And, uh, yeah, I mean, I was doing. You know, 30 to 40 units a month, probably, you know, kind of towards the tail end of my, [00:29:00] um,

Dino Natale Raw: All referral based.

Natale. Rawmp4: all referral base, a hundred percent referral base. I had builder, I did a lot of builder business. I had a production team where I had, you know, a couple of juniors on my team that were helping with builder sites.

So I.

Dino Natale Raw: so let's pause real quick. 'cause um, when I think of everybody's journey, there's loan officers that, you know, never get past the couple.

There's ones that get to like five or six and all of a sudden units a, a month and all of a sudden it's like, Hey man, if you just change a few things, you know what, it doesn't just increase by one, it can double, right? You've gotta, you gotta have a system in place. So I want to back up just a little bit to, to help people that are stuck in this.

I, I'm, I'm good and I'm actually making pretty good money, but how do I get to that next level? Right? How do I, I bust over to 50 million and then how do I bust up to a hundred million? So with you to do that kind of volume, you can't do it by yourself. But, [00:30:00] but not everybody knows how to do that. Sometimes they have a really good boss or a mentor and kind of guides them.

Sometimes they just get so overwhelmed. They finally hire somebody and then it gets a little bit easier, and then they, they hit another roadblock and they hire somebody else. But what was your, like, your path at that point? How did you learn how to get past it?

Natale. Rawmp4: Well, I did have some great examples of people around me that I were able, that I saw that were able to take their business to that next level. And I really, I, I, I, when I think back on my journey, I really kind of hit my ceiling of just me and one assistant at about 30 million. And this is back in the day when my average loan amount was probably 180, 200 thou.

I was in a small market, smaller loan amount. So, um, so I had to, I had to kind of rethink it. I really went back, I went to a whiteboard and said, okay, how can I do this? Because for one, I had, I had twins. I was a i, my ba, I had babies at home. I was a new mom, and, uh, with a, with a [00:31:00] young family, trying to balance that at the same time.

And so the hardest thing that I ever had to do was hire a team. That could, I could deploy to be me. And that is the hardest thing for originators, right? 'cause most of us are very controlling of the business and the client experience, and we don't trust other people to do it the way that we're gonna do it.

But what I have taught my loan officers since then is number one, they're never gonna do it like you do it because they're not you. Um, you have to let go. You have to trust, and you have to know, sometimes there will be mess ups, but the best thing they ever did was hired the right team. And you have to do it before you're ready.

And that is very difficult for people because. They want the company to pay for them to build a team, you have to be willing to invest in yourself. If there's one thing that frustrates me more probably, and I apologize to my team, for anybody who feels like this is directed at them, if they hear this, it's not, this is a very generalized statement, is people who want the company to pay for everything.

It's, if you want to grow, be willing to invest. I'll meet you [00:32:00] in, I'll meet you there, right? Like this, let's do this together. Gimme your plan. How are you gonna grow? What is it gonna look like? And if we hire a team member, you know, what's, what's the, what's the trajectory and introduction, but you need to be willing to pay for that.

I think Carl White does an excellent job at this when he, when he trains, um, uh, loan officers is, you know, to what you pay for one assistant versus what you earn when you have that person on your team. So I was willing to invest and pay to build my team. So that was probably the biggest thing. And then hiring junior loan officers, because the only way I was able to do the volume I was able to do was to have a junior loan officer team where.

Because loan assistants aren't gonna sit builder sites. They're not gonna work nights and weekends. You know, those are your eight to five. So I really had to build a great team of, um, and that's almost harder than finding the right assistant is to find a great, uh, junior type team, but they're out there.

And I was able to ha have, I had two really strong juniors on my team that that helped me, but I was, had to give up some [00:33:00] of my comp to give to them, right. To make that work. So once again, it comes down to, you know, investing. It was worth every penny. Every penny. I was able to take vacations, be with my children, not have to work every weekend, you know, make a very good living.

And, uh,

Dino Natale Raw: did you ever at any point go. And get any kind of coaching.

Natale. Rawmp4: I did. In fact, that was really the turning point for me. Um. After I had my twins, I actually, I was a hot mess and uh, I started coaching with building champions. So I would say that was really kind of the turn for me on how I looked at things. Getting coaching is probably the most impactful thing that people can do.

Everybody should get a coach. If you don't have a coach, you're just missing out.

Dino Natale Raw: so I, I brought that up. 'cause number one, you're a coach, um, which I think is great. And, and I think you work with Cindy, right?

Natale. Rawmp4: I do work with, you coached with Cindy for a long time.

Dino Natale Raw: and, and Cindy's awesome. She was on the show as well. Um, [00:34:00] but I, I'm saying this because I want everybody to pause again just for a minute and, and take this as well. Even if you think you can't afford it, I can honestly say you have to figure out how to afford it.

Natale. Rawmp4: That's right. You can't not afford it. You can't not afford.

Dino Natale Raw: afford it. Yeah. It's, it's really for me, and I think Natalie's saying the same thing, it was such a turning point. It was just such a turning point Al already, you know, like I was fortunate enough that I think it was like two years in, I went to my first seminar, Joe Stump by referral

Natale. Rawmp4: Oh, I went to Joseph. I did.

Dino Natale Raw: did. I love Joe stuff. He is still one of my favorites.

Natale. Rawmp4: He was awesome. I put that on my business cards by referral only.

Dino Natale Raw: Yeah. Yeah, I did too. Right. And, and here's what's interesting is way back when three of us from the shop, all of us kind of on the younger side of, of being in the loan business all went to the seminar together.

It was like a thousand bucks. Like it was the first time and I was like a thousand bucks, right? Like it was a lot of money, [00:35:00] but I did it. And, and this is what's really interesting. Three of us went at the same time. We all heard the exact same thing. And one of us, this guy. Had a completely different outcome than the other two.

The other two changed their, um, their, their voicemail, you know, recording like Joe told them to do. That's about it. That's like all they did, right?

Natale. Rawmp4: right.

Dino Natale Raw: it's mind boggling to me how you can sit and learn so much valuable information and you go and do nothing about it. Right? So you guys listening right now, my gosh, right?

Seek coaching. Always seek wisdom. Like just seek wisdom. Constantly read books, get mentors and get coaching and, and you know, I promise you, like that's one thing if you don't have a good coach, hey, you know, it's like picking a bad wife. Okay?

Natale. Rawmp4: One. There's other, there's lots of coaches, there's lots of different co I'm a big fan of [00:36:00] all the, there's so many great co Southwest consulting building champions. Cindy's the defining different, there's so many great coaching companies out

Dino Natale Raw: And, and there's your personality. Whatever your personality is, okay, go find the right coach for you. I

Natale. Rawmp4: fact, I had just hired a new coach. I, I'm still coaching with Cindy, but I'm getting coached on, um, LinkedIn, uh, leadership, some leadership branding, exec level stuff, because I know for me to get better at that, I've gotta have a coach. So,

Dino Natale Raw: who, so outta curiosity, who's, who's this with?

Natale. Rawmp4: uh, rich Ky Ruski, I think how you say it, so he's based out of Ohio, awesome guy.

And he's a coach and that's what he coaches on. So, um, and I

Dino Natale Raw: I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw a little, I'm gonna throw a little shout out to mine. So I, you know, I just started coaching again, and, and this is, and I even coach people, right? But it's like, all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go get a little coaching. 'cause you know why in my role now, I don't need to learn how to do loans better.

And I don't need to learn how to have that system 'cause it's. It's [00:37:00] great. I love my system. I'm still doing loans and I never even talk to people anymore. Rarely. But growing a company is a completely different ball game. So I've been reading a lot of books on, on that kind of leadership, and then I was trying to figure out how to recruit better.

And I gotta tell you, recruiting's tough. It's really hard, right? So I ended up joining, um, I don't know if you know, but like Richard Milligan and Amir Syed Richard's great. And him and, and Amir, there you go. They came together and formed a group, um, part of Go Coaching, which is Amir's platform. And they came together and they have a leadership recruiting thing.

It's just solely on recruiting. And I'm telling you right now, guys, like I, I know a lot, I have a lot of wisdom, but I don't have enough, can never have enough. So I went and I'm learning and I've learned so much from these two

Natale. Rawmp4: Richard is being an incredible coach. I hired Richard in 2020, [00:38:00] um, to be my recruiting coach 'cause I needed help with growth. I was, I felt stalled. And, uh, I saw him on LinkedIn once again. I watched, I signed up for his free, you know, 30 minute, uh, consult call and hired him on the spot. And then COVID happened and the whole world shut down like two weeks later.

So I wound up coaching with Richard through that entire time. And it was invaluable because I was having to learn how to recruit from a remote environment where I could not meet people. And I actually hired a lot of people during that two year period of time with because of coaching with Richard. And to your point, you know, I think mastery, as they say 10,000 hours, there does come a point where you feel like you've hit mastery, you know, and, and.

So I, I like working with different coaches to help me build mastery around different things. It keeps it fun and exciting for me. And so that's why I'm coaching with Rich. I've coached with Richard, um, and just meeting new people that have different perspectives is so invaluable.

Dino Natale Raw: A hundred percent. I, I had a mentor [00:39:00] that, um, told me he had six coaches and he's

Natale. Rawmp4: I've never had

Dino Natale Raw: got a box. What's that? I've

Natale. Rawmp4: at one time. I've never had six. Well, 'cause I had a coach, I had a personal trainer. I had Richard and I had Cindy all at one time. So, so that's the,

Dino Natale Raw: well he also had a guitar coach and a boxing coach, and a personal trainer and, and he had all these different coaches, right? He's like, man, coaches are the best. He goes, you always go find somebody that knows how to do something better than you, just how you get better at it. So lesson number two, everybody go get a coach.

Or if you can't truly afford it, start reading more books. Start calling more people, right? Go ask people if, if, if you can just, if they can be your mentor, just ask 'em. I bet you anything, there's a plenty of wise people out there that are really great and they have a good heart and all they wanna do when they get to this level is actually get back.

I remember, I'm gonna tell a quick story. Um, I used to work with Josh Metal. Do you know Josh Metal?

Natale. Rawmp4: I know Josh, he was in [00:40:00] my master's coach when I was with Building Champions. I know Josh were good friends.

Dino Natale Raw: He's, he is such a stud and. He was always the top guy at the company I was at always. I was like, all right, I know he's good looking and has a great head of hair, but come on,

Natale. Rawmp4: genetics. He looks like he's successful. He's the quarterback. You know, I would, I'll send this recording to him so he, he cracks it. Such a good dude.

Dino Natale Raw: like, come on dude. How do you use so many loans? Geez. So, you know, what I did is I called him one time and, and I said, Hey, you know, can you make some time for me? I just wanna pick your brain. And of course he did. And, and you know, I just asked him all these questions. He told me about everything he did, and you know what?

I'm like, I do the majority of those things, but I don't do as many loans. But there was one thing that he did that I didn't do, and, and that was that one thing, and all that was he said, every day between eight and 10:00 AM I go in my office, I close my door, put my cell phone [00:41:00] in the drawer, and I make calls.

I make calls and I make calls, and I make calls every single day. I do that for two hours, and I'm like. That's a discipline. That's a discipline that I don't have. So I said, I'm gonna do it. Guess what? It took me probably two weeks just to organize myself and get my list together and do all the, and I'm just like, gosh, why is this so difficult?

And it goes back to our initial con conversation about just pick up the darn phone and make a phone call. Right? So I finally did it and I made $25,000 that day. I mean, like, come on.

Natale. Rawmp4: Think about if every loan officer would make two hours worth of calls every single day, it would change their life. It would change their life. Most people are not willing to do it. Or, you know, whatever that is for you, I don't know. But ask yourself, what is that for you? Uh, that you're not willing to do those things?

And that [00:42:00] really is what the separating factor is right now. When you look at the divide that is happening is the people willing to execute over the people who just wanna coast. And like I said, this is not, I'm not trying to be, um, judgmental, I'm holding no judgment around this. Everybody is different, but people wanna know, like you look at the difference between, I mean, Danny Meyer on my team last month closed, I wanna say 50 million per personal.

And he doesn't have a team. This is just Danny and his assistant like. One month last month in March. Uh, Brady Thomas, who works for me, uh, in Oakland, closed 35 million last month. Uh, just himself and his, you know, he is got assistance on his team and then you, then I have loan officers that closed two or three loans last month.

And so like you look at, you hold that up, like here and here. What is the separating factor there? And it does come down to execution and discipline. There really are not a lot of secrets. Um, how people execute on strategies is different, but I guarantee you if [00:43:00] every loan officer that's listening to this decided to put their phone in a drawer for two hours from eight to 10 and make, do nothing but make phone calls after three months, they probably would have a pretty good pipeline.

Dino Natale Raw: They would, and I can tell you what would happen though. They would get so busy that they would stop doing that and they would start handling their business and then three months later they would do this and then go, oh, I gotta, I gotta start doing, and then they, and then they'd do this. That is like the killer man.

That is like, come on, you guys, like you gotta have a system now. And it has to cover all aspects of the business before, during, and after. And I know it's not easy to just do all of it, but start with the before 'cause without the before you get no during, you get no after. Right. And then work your system in the during part and make sure everybody has an incredible experience so that you can feel like you can have a good after.

Because if you don't have a good experience, you really should [00:44:00] just forget it. Like let it go. But if you can give them a great experience, then now they're your client for life. And then have a system in the after campaign that keeps in touch with them. I mean, for me it was, I, I have a gifting program that I do and it's, it's 13 gifts by the time they have their one year anniversary from the time they start and get pre-approved to funding 13 gifts.

But. I don't, when I go on Facebook or Instagram or whatever, I don't just randomly scroll and do stuff. I'm looking for wedding anniversaries, I'm looking for kids' birthdays. I'm looking for people that just bought dogs. I'm looking for opportunities. And, and then boom, I do another gift specifically for that one.

Natale. Rawmp4: That is so smart and strategic and what a great way to use social media, right? People think of social as just posting. In fact, one of my loan officers on my Monday call just shared that. She's like, I'm starting to go. I connect with every borrower when they make application. I go to their social media and I, I friend them, and then I look for those moments and dates so that I [00:45:00] can, yes, it's so smart.

So.

Dino Natale Raw: yeah. And, and you guys like, you know, six month EPOI mean, that, that's the thing, right? You gotta, I, so this is interesting, just, uh, recently we had an EPO and, and I asked the loan officer his, his process, like, tell me what you do, and Sure. Didn't do anything that he should be doing. And I took it as my fault.

Like, why is he not? If I know better, how come he doesn't know better? So I said, I'm gonna teach you what I do. And I said, here's the thing. When loan docs come out, every single loan officer out there tends to shy away from it, sends him out, notary shows up, no questions, hopefully, and then it just funds.

And they kind of let it go. I don't know why. If you're not hiding anything, you're not doing anything shady. What are you afraid of? What are you afraid of with those loan documents? Right? So I told them, I said, listen, just do a loom video. [00:46:00] Line up the loan documents, record first a big shot of just you talking right into the camera, staring right at it, letting them know, okay, we did it.

We're at the finish line. And I know up until now I've been telling you none of this stuff is important. It's just disclosures. This is, this is you signing your life away. So I want to make sure that you understand exactly what you're signing. So here, and then I flip the camera and it's on the screen now, and I started the note.

I'm like, this document, one of the most important documents, and I go through, this is your loan amount, this is your interest rate, and this is, says it's a 30 year fixed. And then the magic number, I think it's number four or five, the magic one sentence. You have the right to make payments of principle at any time before they are due.

Go and I highlight it and I say, this basically states that there is no prepayment penalty. So your golden, however, I just want to, I want to ask you for one favor. If you [00:47:00] pay this loan off in less than six months, then the bank comes back and finds me for their losses. So if you hit, if you win the lotto, throw me a bone and maybe just wait six months before you pay off the house. But more realistically, I said if the rates were to drop. I get it. You should be refinancing and I would never want you to miss out on an opportunity just because of me. So here's all I ask. If the rates were to drop and it was enough to say it was worth refinancing, come back to me. Let's make sure I get this all set up.

And let's just say we were three months in and we had three more months to go. Here's what I'm gonna do for you. I'm gonna go ahead and, and grab this. I'm gonna lock in that rate for 90 days to make sure that you are completely covered. And whatever that cost is per month that you're giving up, I'm gonna go ahead and just give you that money.

Natale. Rawmp4: oh, that's

Dino Natale Raw: I would rather give you that $200 a month than give the bank the thousands of dollars that they're gonna find me for doing this. So if I can just ask you that one favor, I'd really appreciate it. [00:48:00] I don't ever get epos ever. Right? Right. It's a simple little thing you guys, and it's part of a system.

It's a process. Right. So super valuable. If you guys are listening, you should. You should always be in front of something and never behind it.

Natale. Rawmp4: Yeah. That's great. That's great. Very sage advice and people would save themselves some money if they would adopt that strategy for sure. Um,

Dino Natale Raw: and then sure enough, you guys, hey, if six month is the EPO period, how about you set yourself a reminder at the five month mark? Time to check in. Let's see how we're doing. Are we close to a refinance? If we are, let's get it set up right. And then what do you do at the one year anniversary? I mean, I bet you anything

Natale. Rawmp4: have a strike rate conversation with them at that point too. Like if, you know, let's set a rate where we're gonna agree to lock you and have that all ready to go. So we don't have to have a lot of [00:49:00] conversation as well. So I don't think enough originators are doing that with their clients.

They're waiting to like rates drop and then they're scrambling to call. So getting ahead of it and to your point, reminders about like, let's not pay off, you know, make sure we're timing this for after the six months. It's very smart.

Dino Natale Raw: And I bet you anything a hundred every, almost every a hundred million dollar producer out there, I bet you anything, or I bet you they're all doing annual reviews.

Natale. Rawmp4: Yes.

Dino Natale Raw: It's amazing how many people don't do those.

Natale. Rawmp4: It's ama I would say 90% of originators do not do annual reviews with their clients. Maybe

Dino Natale Raw: And what would you say the percentages of a hundred million dollar producers?

Natale. Rawmp4: It's almost without a doubt, they're all doing it. They're all doing it.

Dino Natale Raw: Yep. All right. So listen, we've gone through a lot. Uh, my favorite question of the whole interview is coming up. But before I ask that of you, I'm gonna ask you one more question. What's your favorite book?

Natale. Rawmp4: Oh man. I would say the book that [00:50:00] changed how I think about things that really had an impact on my life personally and professionally was the compound effect. Uh, I saw Darren Hardy speak at a Todd Duncan event probably maybe 15 years ago or so, and, uh. I bought the book, got a picture with Darren, got it autographed and read that book, start to finish.

It is when I started running actually. And uh, I became a runner uh, not long after that. 'cause he tells the story about how to, you know, how you run a mile in that book. I dunno if you've read it. It's just the greatest book. Compounding activities, compounding money, compounding. You know, people, and I tell my daughters this all the time, we so overestimate what we can do in short periods of time.

Like I wanna lose 10 pounds in a week, right? Not realistic, but we underestimate what we can do over longer stretches of time. And people want things now, now, now. And so they'll try something for short periods and then they give up 'cause they don't see the impact and the results versus sticking with [00:51:00] things to see, you know, how those activities compound over time and get them to their result.

I guarantee an activity is more important than results in markets like this. You know, where especially volatility that we have. So yeah, by far, hands down the compound effect.

Dino Natale Raw: You know, I'm so glad you brought that up. I, I loved that book when I read it, and it's been so many years. I'm gonna bring it back up and bring it up again. In fact, I'm gonna, so my dad, um, he didn't spank much, but he, he lectured, I used to call it lecture. He'd just talk a lot and he'd make me listen. And, and way back when he'd make me sit and listen to his video or not, uh, cassette recordings of Tony Robbins, like type people.

Right. I thank him now because I'm like, I love that stuff. And that's why I am so optimistic all the time because he put that into my mind so long ago. So I'm gonna start doing it with my kids at. At a higher level now I'm gonna, I'm gonna go get the compound effects and I'm actually gonna make them listen to it every single night with me.

Uh, so thank you for that. But [00:52:00] now, next question. It's my favorite question. If I took you and I dropped you off somewhere in the United States, let's just call it Indiana, uh, unless you know people in Indiana, I might, I might drop you off in Iowa then. And I told you, you cannot see your family or talk to them until you make a million dollars doing loans.

You know everything you know about loans. You have all the knowledge and the wisdom, but you don't know anybody and you don't have a lot of money. You have just enough to cover your bills and maybe try a few things, right? But tell me how you're gonna make a million bucks.

Natale. Rawmp4: Well, to me, that's actually an easy question. I would teach classes. I would go out and educate realtors and do events and the one to many strategy, I'd use social media, I'd use webinars. I would get in front of as many people as I could at one time and get to know people. [00:53:00] That's how I would do it,

Dino Natale Raw: All. It's not enough for me. You're gonna have to tell me a little bit more. That's a million bucks. It's a million bucks. You gotta give everybody listening. Some more details, some more meat.

Natale. Rawmp4: uh, well, I guess well for, I think today we live in a time that you do have an advantage. I think social media is probably the single best equalizer that's ever happened where we can compete with the big brands and the big boxes and the big banks and we can humanize it. So to me it's education, scaling, using social media for branding, you know, putting yourself out there really 24 7, I mean, really is what it's about.

It's getting out and getting in front of as many people as you absolutely can. And I truly believe that that strategy works 'cause I've seen people do it and have really pretty phenomenal results.

Dino Natale Raw: So it would, it would definitely be one of my strategies if I had to do it. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna put your feet to the fire just a little bit. Um, it's easy to say I'm gonna go hold classes, but how are you gonna get [00:54:00] people to show up? 'cause they don't know you. Right? Like, so how are you gonna go meet these realtors?

'cause I, I can say I'm gonna

Natale. Rawmp4: Well, I'm a big networker. Yeah, I'm a

Dino Natale Raw: you gonna do that?

Natale. Rawmp4: Yeah. You, I mean, you go to events, you join every association, you go to the builder, you know, the builder events. And also new construction is a great strategy too. I should say. I was a big builder girl, so I, I had five, I actually had five builders at one time that I worked with.

'cause you can get a lot of leads from one single source. And I had, you know, a couple of those were smaller builders. But so, but it really is just networking and getting out in front of people, joining associations, meeting as many people as you can, hosting events, inviting people to those, not just always going to events.

So, um, I would. I would definitely say social media. Make sure you're posting and commenting and engaging with people. Make your list of who, the who's who, that you should be. Networking. Go out and meet those people. Reach out, um, and teach, teach, teach and bring value. Right. And I actually listened to, um, your podcast you did, um, [00:55:00] with Richard, and you guys had a conversation around bringing value, whether that's to somebody you're trying to hire and bring on your team, or that's somebody you're trying to do business with.

I did, I interviewed a gal, um, for my success spotlight that's a 40 under 40 agent realtor in Dallas. And she said, we don't want you to take us to coffee. We want you to show us how you can help us do more business. So, um, the, I want you to, I wanna give you my single best script that I think is just the best script to use when you call realtors is I, because every realtor, most good realtors have relationships.

And so, you know, you be the realtor. I'm gonna call you. Hey Dino, how's it going? This is Natalie at CMG.

Dino Natale Raw: Hey, Natalie. I'm good. going on?

Natale. Rawmp4: yeah. I just wanted to see if you would have some time to meet. I'd love to hear about your business and see how I could help you grow your business. Would you be open to that?

Dino Natale Raw: Well, I, I appreciate it, um, but I've been working with the same, the same lender for quite some time now.

Natale. Rawmp4: [00:56:00] Well, that's great to hear. It does not surprise me at all. Great. Realtors have great relationships with great lenders. If I told you that I could help you grow your business where you could close at least three more transactions this year and it would not touch your current relationship, would you be interested in hearing more about that?

Dino Natale Raw: Probably,

Natale. Rawmp4: Yes. There you go.

Dino Natale Raw: probably. So. It better be a good one though, because I get hit up all the time, so this better be good, Natalie.

Natale. Rawmp4: So, well, let's set a time. Uh, we can do it by a zoom call so I don't take time away from your busy day. And I wanna, I wanna show you the strategy. So you gotta have a strategy, which we have strategies that you can teach people how to do it, but if you take the tension out of that, that they're leaving their current relationship, um, that script works all day every day.

So, um.

Dino Natale Raw: let me, let me back that up with a little story. Um, I use this story a lot. My title rep Derek, he's, he's one of my best buddies. Been giving him business for 28 years and. You know, title reps come in with [00:57:00] I, they don't do it as much anymore. Right. But donuts and bagels and, and in the old days, tickets to the Lakers and this and that and, and, you know, they can't do as much of that stuff anymore.

So now they have to like really win you over. But, you know, I get hit up all the time and I'm like, eh, I go, title's never really been a big thing for me. And I go and, and I've been giving Derek business for 28 years, so just, you know, now if, if a title rep came in and said, I get it, man. Like I get it, but I got something that, you know, these other guys don't and I know I can help increase your business, would you be willing to, to listen?

And I would listen. 'cause what am I here for? Every day? I'm here to like, to do business, right? So if his, uh, if his playbook was real and it was good, then here's what I would do. I would go to my friend Derek, outta respect, right? Just like I would expect a, a realtor to do to me. Right. And it's like, hey, I just got hit up [00:58:00] and I, you know, I hate even doing this 'cause we've been so good for so long.

But it sounds pretty good man. And it's just like, I, you know, it's extra business. And here's the thing, Derek's so great, he would either say, I can't do that, and he'd let me go, or he would say, let me have a shot at trying to put that together. Right. So here's what happened is years ago I would, I used to go after all the realtors had great conversations.

I was like, oh, we connected and I wouldn't get any deals. And I was like, the heck, I thought we really connected, you know? And then I finally got my hands on, on uh, MMI and then redder and all this stuff. And I was like, well, no wonder they haven't done any deals.

Natale. Rawmp4: they haven't done any deals. Like what was the last Sta I heard that 10% of agents are doing 90% of the business. I mean, gotta make sure you're calling on people actually closing deals.

Dino Natale Raw: Yep. So all of a sudden I [00:59:00] started pre-qualifying who I would talk to and, and then I would look and I'd be like, eh, they give all of their deals to this one guy. Like, I'll pass because they're so locked in, right? Like, I, I'm gonna go after somebody easier. And then I got so good at what I was doing, and I believed in myself so much that my value add was so good that I was like, I'm gonna go after them.

I know they have a tight relationship, but I, I bet you anything I, if I can show them why they're going to increase their business by working with me, that they'll say, okay. And sure enough, it worked. So the, your, your little like script that you had, guys, don't, don't just say it if you don't have anything, but, but, but get good.

Natale. Rawmp4: yes. Which, you know, we, everybody can craft, A good originator can craft a strategy that you can sit down with a realtor that the, the, the playing field is mediocre for the most part. Most people wanna stay in the [01:00:00] average, right. You just have to do a couple of things really well to, to really rise above where most people are sitting today is honestly the truth.

It, it, you, you don't even have to be that remarkable. You just have to be consistent and have to be willing to make the calls and pick up the phone and go to the meetings and go to the networking events and, and do it. It's the fun part to me, like that's the most fun. I don't wanna be sitting in my computer, you know, looking at, at email.

I wanna be out and about, which I think Muslim officers do.

Dino Natale Raw: When, when I was younger, you know, I, I would, I, I tried so many different things, right? I mean, one of them was like, Hey, let me. Organize your database. 'cause it's not even organized, right? Like, you don't have a CRM, let, let me put one together for you. I'll do the work and then let me help create a strategy that we can reengage with all these people.

I can even call 'em for you or you can call someone, I can call someone to do it together. And, and that was a value add and I got some realtors to say, sure. Others were like, man, I am good. Right? But I got some, [01:01:00] and then I, I tried another technique and I was like, Hey, if I can do this and got a couple more, right?

And then it was like, how about open houses? I'll go to open houses with you. And then sure enough, like I, I mean they only get one person that wants to buy that house. And maybe I get that one person, but I can help cultivate more leads to help you get more buyers from all these people, right? So there's so many things you guys can

Natale. Rawmp4: I call that the trash to treasure strategy, right? You go to the realtor and say, I wanna take your cold leads and things you don't know what to do with, and let me cultivate and market to them and, and keep them warm until they're ready. Right? Maybe it's credit, maybe it's not payment, maybe it's, you know, they're just not ready yet.

So that, I love that strategy and I just, I think it's just such a missed opportunity for loan officers. Like most people are competing for that small 5% of the buyer that's ready to, that's doing something right now versus. Who are all the people that aren't ready yet because the buying cycle is so much longer now, I think it's like people [01:02:00] start looking, it's 18 months typically on average be people between the first starting to look to when they actually buy a house.

So, um, so that's a really good strategy.

Dino Natale Raw: And you guys, one thing I see is I see way too many loan officers that aren't good at their trade. Like truly they don't even understand it well enough. To, to be doing this. And they lean on the company, they lean on their processors, they lean on the systems, and that's great that you have all that. But spend some time getting good at this.

Spend some time understanding the ins and outs of how the loans work and all the games you can play on, on how to, to do better. I'll give you one quick example and then we'll start wrapping all this stuff up. Um, one quick example, a loan and, and I keep saying loan officer, but I have a really big thing in our company about a loan officer has a job and a mortgage advisor has a career, and, and you want to be a mortgage advisor.[01:03:00] 

That's longevity, right? That, that's that next step up from everybody else. So simple, very simple little thing. If you get a client who qualifies and everything's wonderful and he's got a 7 39 credit score, getting a good rate, he's getting a good everything. He qualifies for what he wants. A loan officer gives us this preapproval and says, you're good.

A mortgage advisor says you're one point away from something just a little bit better. I've analyzed your credit report. Here's, if you just paid off this one credit card, your credit score will jump up over 740. And that, that one point gets you this. And oh, by the way, if you've got somebody that's that's got PMI, that one point also doesn't just get you a better interest rate, it gets you a lower PMI factor.

That's a good mortgage advisor. You do that. I guarantee you're gonna get referrals from everybody involved in this whole piece. Right? And you'll have that client forever. Be a mortgage advisor, get good at your job if you didn't even know that that that happened, you got some learning to do, [01:04:00] right? I mean,

Natale. Rawmp4: One last thing on getting people, uh, getting, uh, leads, I guess, or, or converting clients. I heard a stat yesterday and I, this is the second time I've heard it. 89% of buyers go with the first person they talk to. Regardless of rate, regardless of who it is. If they call you and they don't get ahold of you and they call someone else and get ahold of them first, more than likely they're gonna go with that person.

So answer your phone. Answer your phone. It's I, I mean, loan officers, we get busy and we don't answer our phone. We're too busy to answer our phone. We'll just let it go to voicemail. We'll call him back later, 89%. That is an

Dino Natale Raw: It's wild.

Natale. Rawmp4: stat.

Dino Natale Raw: That's wild. And

Natale. Rawmp4: So answer your phone or get somebody to answer it for you if you are too busy.

Dino Natale Raw: so you're at CMG, you guys have a lot more like systems in place and you guys have a lot more like, you know, rules and all that stuff. [01:05:00] Um. On the broker side, it's a little bit more wild, wild west. Um, and, and loan officers get to do whatever they want. One of my biggest, biggest things is I'm like, get off your damn cell phone and get onto a phone system.

'cause with the phone system, it can ring to different people, it can ring to everybody at the same time there, there's workflow. You guys, like, workflow is so important and, and this will not work long term. It won't work. And if you go on vacation, do you really want this to keep ringing or do you want your team?

I, if you don't have a team right now and you're fine with that, okay, whatever. If you're only doing one loan a month, okay, whatever. But if you have aspirations to do more than that, start now. Start with having a, a real system in place. And that includes getting off your cell phone. By the way. You can still use a phone system on your cell phone.

It's just an app. It's just a different app.

Natale. Rawmp4: That's right.

Dino Natale Raw: All right. Thank you very much for coming [01:06:00] on. It was such a pleasure talking to you and getting

Natale. Rawmp4: go on and on. I feel like we could just keep talking for another hour. I appreciate it. This has been so awesome.

Dino Natale Raw: I feel like you are one of the classiest ladies in the mortgage business.

Natale. Rawmp4: thank you for saying that. That's so kind of you. Well, I

Dino Natale Raw: mean, seriously, you carry yourself so well and, and just you've, you've got this longevity in this industry. You are a wealth of knowledge and if anybody wants to reach out to you, I don't know if you're coaching or not, but if anybody wants to reach out to you.

Natale. Rawmp4: Cindy's company, so if people are interested in coaching, I really specialize in growth, uh, recruiting and leadership if people wanna coach with me. So I only take a couple clients at a time 'cause I'm pretty busy day job. But, and I also own a med spa. I don't think I've mentioned that, but I do own a med spa in Coeur d'Alene.

And I, I'm obviously not working at it, but I'm a co-founder of a med spa here. So I do um, I do coach though, if people are interested, I'm, I'm happy to have a conversation 'cause uh, it's, coaching is a passion of [01:07:00] mine. It really is. 'cause it had changed my life honestly. Coaching changed my life, so, and if you don't have a coach, get a coach.

Good coach.

Dino Natale Raw: as that. Well, thank you so much for joining us.

Natale. Rawmp4: Thank you for having me. This was super fun. Love to do it again.

Dino Natale Raw: to do it again. Awesome. You guys, we're gonna have all of Natalie's information in the show notes. We're gonna have it all over social media. Uh, I just wanna thank you guys so much for listening. Thank you guys for, for just pushing us up in the rankings.

I don't know if you guys know this, but. We, um, we, we cracked the hundred in um, apple Podcast in the business category, but that was like a huge, huge accomplishment. We've slipped a little bit recently, so I need your help to push back a little bit more 'cause I need to get back into that under a hundred mark.

But thank you guys. I really do appreciate it so much. It started as just a little like little podcast with, you know, few loan officers and it's turned into so much more. So you guys are the best. I appreciate you. Remember to please like, comment, share, do [01:08:00] all that good stuff that helps us. And also go over to Apple or Spotify.

Leave us a good review on there and we'll see you next time. We love you. Bye.