Leads Are for Losers? Steven Ross Explains What Actually Builds a Business

In this episode of The Way with Dino Katsiametis, Dino sits down with Steven Ross, author of Doors Open When You Knock, to break down the mindset, discipline, and consistency required to build a long-term referral business in real estate. 

Steven shares how he built his career by knocking on more than 125,000 doors over 16 years—even though he considers himself introverted, antisocial, and completely unsuited for traditional sales tactics.

This conversation goes far beyond door knocking.

Dino and Steven dive deep into:

•  Why consistency beats talent 
•  How trust is built over time 
•  Why most agents quit too early 
•  And what it really means to become a professional worth hiring 

If you’re a realtor, loan officer, entrepreneur, or sales professional struggling with lead generation, burnout, or inconsistency, this episode delivers practical frameworks and timeless sales wisdom that still work in today’s market.

🔑 Key Takeaways & Bullet Points

• Why Steven Ross believes introverts can become elite salespeople
 • The real reason door knocking still works in 2026
 • How knocking on 125,000 doors transformed his communication skills
 • Why consistency matters more than charisma or talent
 • The hidden psychology behind trust and relationship building
 • Why most agents fail before “the magic” happens
 • The importance of doing hard things repeatedly
 • How to overcome resistance, procrastination, and excuses
 • Why building relationships beats chasing transactions
 • The difference between being an “asker” vs a “giver”
 • How to create a business that gives you both income and freedom
 • Why referrals outperform paid leads long term
 • The mindset required to survive commission-only sales
 • The role discipline plays in long-term success
 • Why face-to-face interaction still dominates digital communication

Thanks for listening to "The Way With Dino Katsiametis"  
 For full show notes, links, and extra episode resources, visit dinokatsiametis.com.
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Learn more about Ethos Lending at ethoslending.com.  

Transcript

Steven Ross Raw

Dino Steven Raw. Final: [00:00:00] All right. As promised, here he is, Steven Ross. Thanks for joining me. My pleasure.

Steven Ross Raw: My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Dino.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Thanks for having me. So I have to admit, um, the title of your book caught my attention, and, and I wanted to get you on here so that we can go deep into why you wrote this book, what it means to you, and how ultimately is it going to help, um, every- everybody in the, uh, in the real estate industry grow their business, right?

And even, dare I say, have a better life while they're doing more business, right? So before we get into your book, which is Doors Open When You Knock, I love that title by the way, um, I wanna, I want everybody to know, who are you? Who's Steven Ross personally and professionally?

Steven Ross Raw: Yeah. Well, Dino, I'm the worst type of person to be a real estate agent because I'm introverted. I don't work nights or weekends. You can't find me online. I don't do parties or events. I'm a little antisocial. And yet here I [00:01:00] am, 22 years in and, you know, I built my, I built my business knocking on doors. I knocked on over 125,000 doors as a real estate agent.

So I knocked on doors for 16 years, both in California, where I'm from, and then in Colorado when I moved here at the end of '08. And, um, you know, this is a business about talking to people and I, as I described, right, I don't, I don't wanna do any of this stuff to go talk to people, but I didn't wanna fail, and I had three little kids to feed, so I was gonna figure out a way to make it work.

And, um, I forgot what you asked me, but that's kind of my, in a nutshell, you know, what you need to know about me.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: kids. Are

Steven Ross Raw: they're all grown. I-- At the time we're, at the time we're recording this... So I got my real estate licensh, license in LA, in California, March 15th, 2005, and my third child was born six weeks [00:02:00] later. Right? So in a commission-only business, I had three little kids under the age of five and, um, but I sucked at whatever you needed to do to, to feed those kids and, right, and at the time we're recording this, I'm leaving in two days to take my, my, that same daughter for her 21st birthday to Italy, is fast-forward, right, 21 years.

Um, and so I raised-- The, the book really is about what does it take so the doors open when you knock, but the subtitle is "A Handbook for Boundless Opportunity and Freedom." So it's like, how do you really maximize your business and yet still have a life?

Dino Steven Raw. Final: I love that. You know, I gotta tell you, my, my dad, um, told me a long time ago, y- he's like, "Son, listen." He goes, "If you wanna make more money, it's pretty simple. All you gotta do is get married." And he goes, "You wanna make [00:03:00] more money? Have a baby. You wanna make more money? You guessed it, have another baby." So not...

I have learned over the years that not everybody steps up to that. And, and my dad's caveat was, "A good man always steps up to that." And it's funny you say what you said, because, um, I forget what year it was now. Gosh, 20, uh, 20, 2014, I think. Um, my wife was pregnant with my fourth kid, and this is after the 2008 debacle and, you know, losing everything, and I'm just like...

I'm, I'm like sitting here. She's excited. I'm nervous. I'm scared as heck, thinking, "I'm never gonna be able to retire. It's like it's never gonna happen," you know? And but it threw me into a tailspin that ended up being the best thing that ever happened, and the reason why is it because it forced me to think more [00:04:00] long-term as opposed to just here and now today.

And the reason why is because I thought, "Man, I got another, another 18 to 20 years that I gotta figure out." Uh, so what I did is back then, the, the bu- the big buzzword was millennial, right? And, and it was like, "These millennials are gonna change everything. These millennials don't like to buy normal houses.

They, they want this, they want that, like amenities and yada, yada, yada." So I started reading up on millennials, and I started deciding that I was going to change my, my entire business model around. I had been in the business for, you know, quite a few years already at that point, and my client was kinda like at this level, right?

Like good clients, higher price points, um, no issues, no nothing. And I decided I'm gonna start back down here with first-time homebuyers, and, and that's gonna get me another 20-plus years in this industry. And it was really the best thing I [00:05:00] ever did, but it also... What I loved, and this is the kinda the challenge for everybody, is it forced me to look at my business model as a whole.

And, and sometimes we just start realtors selling houses, loan officers just trying to sell loans, kinda take whatever you can take, and, um, and you just close as many loans as you can. But that's not the, that's not the business model. Like what's your business model? And I think it's important to really like dissect it and, and work within the confines of it, because I do believe riches are in the, the niches and, and you could do even better when you're hyper-focused on something.

I'm not saying that you gotta stay in a box all the time, but, but I do believe even little boxes are abundant, you know? So, uh, I've learned over the years that it's also a lot easier, life is easier when you're not trying to do a million things. Right? So, [00:06:00] just my own little thing of something I went through when I had my fourth kid, but it did, it, it, it started me on this, on this, you know, new plan, and I had to relearn how to talk to first-time home buyers, which was really good for me, and I ended up really loving it.

Um, and I found out they were extremely grateful people because it was exciting to buy a house again, right? And I, and I also learned that it's one of the most nerve-wracking things known to man, right? It's, like, written, divorce, buying a house, and starting a new job, I think are, like, some of the, the craziest things that people go through.

Well, I, I studied it, and I realized the reason why buying a house was so nerve-wracking for people and, and so stressful... Do you, I'm gonna ask you this question. Do you know why? In my, my personal opinion, do you know why that became the most stressful thing for people?

Steven Ross Raw: Um, I don't know, but I'm-- it feels like you're leading me to the 30-year note [00:07:00] that they were signing.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: No. Because realtors and loan officers sucked at doing their job. That's why they were so stressed out. Uh, it's like no wonder everybody you know had a bad experience because the lender didn't close on time, and the realtor was so fixated on that commission check that they were more stressed out than anybody, and they caused un- unneeded panic in the entire, like, process of buying a house, as opposed to it being the most joyous occasion and, like, this really amazing time in their life.

So, I decided at that time to turn all this stuff around and make it that joyous occasion again, make it an event that they can celebrate. So, just like that, once I did that, business skyrocketed because I didn't do it, I didn't, it wasn't as, I didn't create that chaos like everybody else. back to you.[00:08:00] 

So tell me, tell me why you wrote this book

Steven Ross Raw: Uh, well, let me think. When I first started writing this, it was 20-2019, 2020, so that would've been 15 years in the business. What I noticed is

Dino Steven Raw. Final: I,

Steven Ross Raw: kind of what you were just saying, it's really hard to show up consistently over time. And what got in the way for most people, was just my observation, is that there's just too many things that took them off track.

And so the book is like, how do you stay on tr- how do you show up consistently year in, year out? And so there's 10 chapters, and really each chapter is something that if you don't get clear, is likely to take you off track. And it was really kind of like It's like writing the itch. It's like if everyone could just do these things, they'd have a lot more peace and calm and consistency in their business.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: I'll tell you what, I [00:09:00] have a lot of questions to ask about the book, but before we do, I wanna go back to day one. Uh, we already know you got your license when you had three kids under five years old going commission only, and you weren't a outgoing type of personality. Like,

Steven Ross Raw: Still not.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: made you want to g- get into this business?

I would think that'd be the scariest, worst thing in the world for somebody like you to get into.

Steven Ross Raw: mean, I was leaving consulting and I was a CTO of a startup and, you know, that was '05. And, and I lived in LA and you know LA and you know what it was like in '05. There's all these people making money and I'm like, "These guys are knuckleheads. Surely I could do this." You know? Which-- Yeah, exactly. I mean, which is what everybody says.

And my kids were little. I wanted to be-- I didn't wanna be on a plane, I didn't want a long commute, I didn't want [00:10:00] 14-hour days, I didn't wanna be up all night writing emails. And I thought, "Well, this is a great business that I could expand my skill set and be home every night to raise my kids." That is why I got into real estate.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Yeah, and, and out of curiosity, what did the first, let's call it, six months look like for you? How did you, how did you get indoctrinated into real estate?

Steven Ross Raw: I don't remember the first two months. I remember May of 2005. That's when I was, I was with Coldwell Banker and you used to, you used to have to do fast start, which was two weeks of training. I remember being on the second week. It was in Woodland Hills on Ventura Boulevard, and the second week they brought in a coach and, um, and he yelled at us all day.

His name's Steve Schuil, and he was one of the inventors of real estate coaching. And, uh, and he said, " It's a very simple business. Knock on heads, knock on doors, pick one." And I'm like, "Come on, man, I'm a UCLA grad. I've worked on Wall Street. I'm not knocking on doors." [00:11:00] But like I knew I wasn't, I was already not gonna make it.

Like knocking on heads, going out and talking to people wasn't gonna work for me. And it took me about another month or so to start knocking on doors, and I think I started like in June of '05 and I knocked on doors from June '05 through October 2020.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: that, uh, I wanna play, um, because you're talking about this. I think it's gonna be great. Yeah.

Steven Ross Raw: Well, that's, that's what you get for, um

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Hold on here. Let me see. So I,

I- 

Steven Ross Raw: question, man. Like, it was not that hard. I got... Well, let me say it a different way. It became very clear to me what needed to be done. It didn't mean I loved doing it or was any good at [00:12:00] it, which is a different discussion.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Okay. So after you went through this, uh, training, so to speak, did you immediately go out and start knocking on doors?

Steven Ross Raw: So no... Well, it took me about a month. What are you

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Just to get a-

Steven Ross Raw: what are you trying to find? Let's, let's... 'Cause I could see you want your, you're adamant about getting this played.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: point. I, I am. It's killing me here.

Okay, hold on. I'm gonna... I gotta find it. Um, oh, okay. I'm in the right folder now. I can, I can get there a little faster. So I, I'll give context while I'm looking. I went to a Tony Robbins seminar, um, called Business Mastery a long time ago. And, and I have to admit, I, I really did like it. Um, it was like 10 grand, which was a ton of money back then.

But he had a ton [00:13:00] of great people there, uh, that I got to listen to, a lot of stuff that I learned. Um, here it is. And, uh- And this one particular scene, let me turn it up, Tony Robbins was asking questions. People were, you know, raising their hands, and this guy that happened to stand up to ask a question was a real estate agent.

So I immediately turned on my, my recorder thinking, "Oh, this, this is gonna be fun." And there's a little profanity here, so plug your ears if you don't like listening to it, because Tony Robbins, you know, does this. And he was talking about knocking on doors. So listen to this.

Steven Ross Raw: Right.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Don't do it as a follow-up.

Don't do it as a marketing tool. Do something for your community that will touch your community that doesn't cost a lot of money, but people get out of it what really needs it. Everybody says, "I'll give you service." Everybody says that, but what the fuck have you done? All you've done is knock on doors and ask for shit.

Stop being a fucking asker and be a giver. [00:14:00] So bottom line, right, is stop being a fucking asker and be a fucking giver, is what he said. And, and the reality is, right, it's like I- I've, I've knocked on doors, but only to experiment with this one idea that I had one time. So I went out with my realtor and knocked on doors. It was the only time I've ever had to knock on doors.

But I learned an awful lot in a three-hour period. You, you get rejected, and, and you tweak a little bit. People don't answer, you get frustrated, but you keep going to the next one, right? And, and what I realized after a few of these is, like, every single door I went to was littered with real estate agents' publications and fl- flyers and, you know, cards and all sort...

Literally, every door had a bunch of stuff. There was all these agents that were doing it. So even door knocking, I would say because it's difficult, knocks out probably 98% of all the realtors, but there was still 2% that were [00:15:00] doing it all the time, and then they were just littering there. And then I couldn't help but g- I...

Like, this Tony Robbins thing stuck in my head. Stop being a, an asker and be a giver. So I retweaked everything, and a guy asked me, he goes, "Well, what's in it for you? Why, why would you do this? What..." And I'll give context. There was a lot of condo complexes that were not FHA approved, and, and I thought, "Well, shoot."

I did a little research. Same community, condo complex A over here is FHA approved, and a- the... And back then, average was going for, like, $650,000. Condo complex B, very comparable condos, literally two miles away, comparable everything, going for, um, about $580,000 instead of 650. The only thing I can think of is the buyer pool had less people here because it was not FHA approved.

So I [00:16:00] thought to myself Well, shoot, I can get this thing FHA approved. I, I know how to do that. I, I have a person that I, I've given... But why don't we turn it into a bigger project? So I put together this entire marketing campaign. Um, I forgot what I called it now, but it was something with FHA approved condos, right?

And I had, like, this form, and we, we had these beautiful handouts made, and we went around to every house, and we knocked on the doors and said, "You know, do you realize that we can grow or we can, uh, increase the value of your home by 15% just strictly by having you be FHA approved?" And, and a lot of people didn't even know what that meant, right?

But it's like, your board, your HOA is not doing the paperwork necessary. But what we're willing to do, because it's, it's confusing, it's a lot of work and a little expensive, but we're willing to do all that for free. But we need enough signatures. We're trying to get enough signatures from the community, at least 10% of the [00:17:00] community, that wants us to do it.

Otherwise, we're not gonna spend our time and money to do this. And, and it was interesting, right? Because I figured if somebody signs that, that's a great lead. That's somebody that's probably interested in, in selling their house here within the next two years. Then I also did a little more research, and it said that in that particular community, on average, people bought their house and two and a half years later they sold.

And I thought, "Ooh, the turnover there is great." Like, that's the perfect first-time home buyer, right? They, they buy it, a little over two years, they sell it, they move up. A real estate agent could kill it in here. Like, absolutely kill it, right? The turnover rate, the... You can become the prominent real estate agent.

But how do we get in? How do we infiltrate and, and beat the competition? Well, number one, I remembered what Tony Robbins said, is like, instead of just asking, let's give. So this is what we're giving. We're gonna give you a 15% bump in equity right out of the [00:18:00] gate. So when the guy asked me, it just so happened I looked down to think what I was gonna say, and I saw all these flyers from real estate agents.

I said, "Well, as you can see, um, all of these real estate agents have littered your front porch. I'm not gonna do that. I'm here because I want to give you something of value. And when you ask what's in it for me, on the flip side, one day when you're ready to sell, I hope you don't think about any of these people, and you think about the people that just made you an extra, you know, $80,000 or whatever it was."

And, and just like that, I was like, "I did it." I flipped it from being a asker to a giver. And just like that, man, it started, like, kind of working, right? And we were able to get all these names of people in the complex. It was beautiful. It's a great idea. All from knocking and trying stuff, you know? But

Steven Ross Raw: Yeah. Uh, I

Dino Steven Raw. Final: line, be a giver

Steven Ross Raw: My-- It's a, that's an excellent story. I wanna go back to where you [00:19:00] started, which is number one, there's not that many people actually knocking, okay? People send a lot of stuff, but they don't, there's not actually that many people knocking on doors. But the second thing is, you did it one time.

I did it for 16 years. And this is not about making you wrong, this is for the anyone listening. You-- Most people wanna hear, "I wanna hear one trick that's gonna work and make me a bunch of money, as opposed to investing in something that's gonna make me better for the long run." And I was not there to get people to list their home with me.

I mean, that did happen. But what I was there to do was build relationships, which is a give. And most people, many, I don't know about most, but I would say most, but let's just start with many, that it's a short term, "I, I need to make a sale." If it's not gonna turn into a sale or they'll go to the [00:20:00] doors, it didn't work.

How many doors did you knock on? 30. I mean, like the perspective is, is off.

Sorry, I didn't-- I know that's not where we were going, but I didn't wanna leave that point untouched, 'cause it's a critical point.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: statistic, but, you know, there's, there's greatness around the corner and most people give up before they, they make it around the corner.

Steven Ross Raw: Every time, every time I wanted to quit, "Ah, it's not going well today. Oh, that person was a jerk. I'm just gonna finish this block and go home." But you know, that wasn't my commitment. Like, you know, usually it was a time limit or a number of people I spoke to or I, I, I did it a number of different ways.

Every time I didn't quit and went the next block, there was always magic. [00:21:00] Always. Always.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: do you think door knocking is still viable, like as the

best 

Steven Ross Raw: I don't know about the best way. It's an effective way to be in front of people. I mean, if you're a new real estate agent, what else are you gonna do to learn the market faster? And if you're, um... I'm not saying loan officers can't do it, but for a real estate agent, how else are you gonna learn the market faster?

Just not. Just not.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: there, is there a strategy in door knocking? It, it, it's not easy. You didn't have that

Steven Ross Raw: that's

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Self-proclaimed magnetic, uh, outgoing personality. Why were you [00:22:00] successful with it? Just sheer numbers, or did you develop a, a technique that worked?

Steven Ross Raw: kind of a tricky question. Uh, trying to think of the answer that's gonna make a difference. Um,

it was consistency over time, and yes, I did get better. So I was not very good in the beginning. I was very good at the end. But I was good at building relationships. I mean, I kinda already had that. Like I, you know, I, I know Taha, very funny, Steven's an introvert, he doesn't do praise or event. You know, I, I do that, which is all true, but I'm not inept either as a communicator.

And the oth- and so over s- I mean, I wasn't bad [00:23:00] before But after 16 years of knocking on doors, you get really good. I mean, you don't have to get good. I got very good at talking to people and the nuance and figuring out how to create relationships literally from nothing. But it doesn't-- But though anyone listening who's not gonna knock on doors, if you're a loan officer and this doesn't apply, you're knocking on doors, it, that is a metaphor.

You gotta go out and be in front of other people, whether it's referral partners or borrowers. And many people just don't have enough reps to get themselves better at building trusted relationships.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: So let's, let's talk about that for a minute. I've, I've always been a referral-based self-gen guy. So I, I say to some of my loan officers, you know, like it's different because I already [00:24:00] have trust built in from the very first phone call. They-- 'Cause they were referred to me by somebody else, so they, they already trust me.

So I can approach this a little differently. And then I see some of my self-gen guys, I'm sorry, my lead gen guys that are buying leads out of MoneyTree or various places, and I think to myself, "Man, that's a tough call," because how do you create trust in a short period of time? They're on, on guard, you know, because they already don't trust, but yet th- even though they're the ones reaching out, they don't seem to trust right away.

And, and then if I take this back to door-knocking, you know, you're interrupting somebody unannounced at their house How do you develop that trust? Like let's give somebody actionable, you know, steps as how to develop that trust. And, and is it done right away through some sort of connection or is it done because you keep showing up [00:25:00] to that same house every week?

Steven Ross Raw: Yeah. Well, that was a lot. We could do another 45 minutes just on that. So, uh, but the answer to the very last piece of your question is, it takes time, right? Trust happens over time. When you met your wife, where did you meet your wife?

Dino Steven Raw. Final: was instantly attracted to me and she instantly She wasn't

Steven Ross Raw: ready to get married on day one.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: one. Yeah, I had to ask her out a few times. She

Steven Ross Raw: She was not ready to get married on day one, and so no one is willing to commit to you really on day one. Just take that as the case. I mean, uh, every now and then it happens like as a miracle 'cause someone comes in your open house or whatever, but for the most part, the relationship takes time. So part of the doors was just consistently showing up at people's doors gave me an opportunity to develop myself as someone that they can count on, 'cause I was doing something hard [00:26:00] And then it was what kind of conversation am I having with them?

Am I there to-- It goes back to what you said when you were on those doors. Am I there to get something or am I there to contribute something?

Dino Steven Raw. Final: liked what you said there, you know, like, give them a reason to see that you are someone they can count on because you are doing something hard. I think people shy away from, from doing hard things. I was just, uh, I'm, I'm rereading the book The Compound Effect. That's

Steven Ross Raw: Yeah, great.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: great. Great book, and he's talking about when he was a kid and his dad, uh, loved doing hard things and, you know, and it taught him that lesson.

And when you do hard things, you know, good things come of it most of the time. But the consistency piece is, you know, you, you, you lift [00:27:00] heavy weights, that's hard, but it doesn't do anything unless you consistently do it, right? So it's the same thing. Door knocking's hard, but it doesn't work if that's all you do at one time and you're done.

And I... And the other piece too that I never really thought of just because I was, I never had a door knock as a lender, but I counted on my realtors to go door knock. But do- saying you're gonna go door knock every day, but door knocking a different community every day doesn't do the trick either, because you don't get to build a relationship with the same people. That's interesting. Hold on, I'm just taking some notes

Steven Ross Raw: Yeah, when I was-- When I came to Colorado at the end of '08 to say the beginning of '09, the market was not right for working a neighborhood. I was just trying to survive. So-- And there was a lot of bank owned stuff, so I was opportunistic. I looked for where I felt I could do it, [00:28:00] you know, where I could find a client who wanted to do something now.

But-- And it worked in that market. But once we came out of that, it was very clear that the name of this game is relationships, and to make my job easier is I should be going back to the same neighborhoods and build relationships with people so that they knew me. And, you know, so it really wasn't until 2014 that I started repeating.

But for 2009, '10, '11, '12, '13, I bounced around a lot.

I forgot where we-- I was just filling time where you were taking notes. Um, forgot what we were, what we were talking about.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: of the, the book a little bit more. Um, I know the title says a lot, but, you know, let's start with why. What, what compelled you to write this book?

Steven Ross Raw: Uh, it was what was missing, right? So you've heard other people say [00:29:00] You know, they, they scratch their own itch. And so for me, I just felt this was a great...

testament's the wrong word, and framework isn't the right word either. But it was just, it, it was what got me through 15 years and continues to get me through consistently showing up. And I feel like consistency is such a missing piece in real estate, both on, b- on both sides. So that was the first piece.

And, um, right, no matter how good you are with people or how good an LO or how good a real estate agent you are, if you don't have any clients to work with, it doesn't matter how good you are. And you only have clients by going out and generating your business. W- however, that doesn't mean necessarily knocking on doors, but [00:30:00] metaphorically, what is your door-knocking?

It's not you sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring. And so the book is how to get people to show up consistently. And the book still stands, and it still stands outside of real estate. I gave it to an entrepreneur friend a couple weeks ago, and I said, "Just read chapter three." And she texts me, which is on resistance, and, uh, she texts me the following Monday.

She's like, "I read it, you know, picked it up, couldn't put it down. It was just the inspiration I needed to get into action." And, um, so yeah.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Tell me about chapter three

Steven Ross Raw: At some point you've gotta just decide-- Well, Steven Pressfield talks about this universal force called resistance with a capital R,

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Wait, say that again? I didn't hear it.

Steven Ross Raw: resistance, and he uses it with a capital R, not the lowercase, like it's a thing, like it's a [00:31:00] universal force. And I remember reading "The War of Art" like in '06, or I think it's when it came out, and I immediately saw all the things that were in the way of me getting into action.

You know, printing my postcards and like, oh, there's a typo. I gotta go back to the office and reprint them so I don't go to the doors that day. Or, you know, my kid is sick, or my wife needs me to stop and p- you know, all just the just nonsense that happens. Or I left my sh- my shoes aren't-- I have a blister, or it's hot and I don't have a hat for my head.

You know, I did have hair back then. You know, just, I could just see, wow, look at all these ways I create excuses not to go do the thing I'm supposed to be doing. And it's just a form of resistance. And it's everywhere. It's when I s- you know, when I don't feel like writing or when I don't, you know, it's always there Like [00:32:00] gravity

Dino Steven Raw. Final: a thing I, I read a while ago, I don't remember what it was called now, but it talked about, uh... Ha, it was actually another Tony Robbins thing. Uh, and, and he was talking about chunking and putting things together, right? And, and then he talked about how going to the gym first thing in the morning, if you have in your head that you wake up, you get ready, you go to the gym, that's three things. But other people have to make a list for everything. Wake up 6:00 AM, brush teeth, pack bag, have a snack, drive to the gym, [00:33:00] work out, shower, get dressed, drive to work. You've, you've pretty much have overwhelmed yourself, and you don't end up going to the gym because you've overdone the, the, the mere, you know, simple things.

Like, brushing your teeth is just a thing you do. You don't have to list it anymore. Like, we learned that. Tying your shoes, we've learned that, right? Like, it's not something you have to do. And, and people tend to overthink everything and create such a, like, pile of bricks on their shoulders that they end up just not doing anything I think door knocking's probably one of those.

For me, it was cold calling. Um, I think it was just last m- just last week, we had, uh, or two weeks ago, so we had, uh, Josh Meddle, um, on the phone or on the podcast, and he was talking about how he would make calls, outbound calls, like a madman during a period in his career. He actually said he still [00:34:00] does, where it, it's just, you don't work on other things, you don't return emails, you don't even look.

You just make calls. And Chet Holmes wrote a book one time, The Ultimate Sales Machine, which I thought was really good, and it was the same thing. It was like, if you have enough business, then you don't need to be calling for more than two times a day. If you don't have any business, all you need to be doing is calls every single day for a minimum of eight hours.

Like, there's nothing else you need to do other than get business. And, and realtors and loan officers, same kind of thing. Whether you're out door knocking, making phone calls, whatever it is you're doing, you have to be connecting with people. And, and in today's world, I, I won't deny, I think there's a piece there that's a social media strategy as well, 'cause you...

I've seen, I've seen people effectively connect with people when social media's done right. So I'm not gonna knock it, and I, and I do think that in today's world, you [00:35:00] can even, you know, you can touch thousands of people in a short period of time, as opposed to how long it would take to touch, let's call it 300 people door knocking.

Um, but I think it's just a strategy, and it's just one of them, and there's nothing like face-to-face. There's just nothing like it, whether it's on the phone or in person, ideally in person. Next best is video virtual conference, and then phone call, a- and then social media. Um, so yeah, I, I'm, I'm all about that.

I, I think everybody should do the hard things early in their career, because things will get easier after that. And, and, uh, here's a quick little story. One time when I was a young'un, um, I, I was busy. I, I did well. I did all the hard things, and I had ba- I had, back then I had my big whiteboard, you know, and I had lines, tapes creating lines, and had all my clients and where [00:36:00] they were at in the process, and it was always so impressive to look at it.

Number one, it kept me organized. Number two, it felt good to, to see names on it. And, and I always had it full. And then I had this little board off to the side that was, like, my waiting list to get on the big board, 'cause I had gotten so busy. And then one day, the little board was empty, and my big board was only about 70% full.

And even though that was still a lot for most people, I was starting to panic. And, and I was like What is happening? And I remember I told, you know, everybody, "Don't bother me until this door opens again." And I went, I closed the door, and I started making calls. I didn't think about who I was gonna call. I didn't think about...

I just started calling. And I opened the door probably two or three hours later, and I had three new deals. And, uh, one of the younger guys came in and asked me, "How'd you do that?" A- and I go, "What do you mean?" He goes, "How did you go in there, close the door, and walk out with three deals? [00:37:00] Did you... Or did all three deals come from people you called, like randomly, all of a sudden they need a loan?"

Like, no, actually, none of the three deals that came in came from the people I called. But I think it's God's way of rewarding me for doing the hard stuff. Like, "Okay, you deserve it now. Thanks for, thanks for putting some effort in." Right? And, and all too often we just sit there and wait and expect without actually doing any of the hard work.

So I've been enjoying this conversation. Um, is there anything else you want to, you know, relay to, to people? A little motivation, a little something

Steven Ross Raw: Um, I mean, I would just say, um, you know, what you're just a little pointing to is like the universal p- uh, stirring the universal pot, right, of action, right? So when you're in action, you usually have a much better chance of, of creating something. Like nothing happens without action. And so the, this book, "Doors Open When You Knock," is all about how do [00:38:00] you stay in action.

And the book I'm currently writing is how do you, how do you be a professional worth hiring? And I wrote these 13 virtues, and it's delving into You know, the question is like, well, what is, what does it mean to be a professional worth hiring? And so what does it mean to have clients that wait for you to come back from vacation and are happy to pay you your fee and will only refer work with you?

And when you have high-- when you have clients like that, your business actually is pretty easy because you have high trust, you have high collaboration, not a lot of arguing, and things go faster and easier. So if you want to do more business in less time, create better relationships. And so that's what this book is about, and the title of the book is called "Leads Are For Losers: Thirteen Profess- the Thirteen Virtues of Being a Professional Worth Hiring."

And, uh, [00:39:00] I'm not saying don't buy leads or do whatever you want, but in the end, in the end, if in the long run you want a database of clients, 'cause that's how you do more business in less time. It's not from leads. So, uh, you know, I would just say keep a lookout for that. Obviously, I stand by the first book.

Um, it's still incredibly relevant, um, but keep an eye out. It'll be-- I'll be done later this year or beginning of next year.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Awesome. And we're going to have your book, Doors Open When You Knock, on our website as well for anybody that wants to read it. Um, I'm assuming it's also on Amazon if anybody wanna- It's on Amazon, change it. It's

Steven Ross Raw: It's my voice. If you don't like my voice, don't listen to it. Just read it.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: it. Just read it. Uh, before I let you go though, I have two more questions, and the first one I think is easy.

Uh, aside from your book, uh, what is your favorite [00:40:00] book?

Steven Ross Raw: I mean, I would say the book every real estate agent and loan officer should read would be this book, uh, "The Full Fee Agent" by Chris Voss and Steve Schull. I was part of the group of agents that came up with that material. Um, so I would definitely say that's a required reading. But I would say, um...

Well, this is such a tough question. Um,

probably my favorite book is, uh, "The Greatest Salesman in the World" by Og Mandino, 'cause it's one of the first books I read when I became a real estate agent. And right, it was written in 1962 or something like that. I don't remember what year it was written.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: it called? The

Steven Ross Raw: Oh yeah, have you not read this book? Oh man, yeah, you gotta read this book.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: really got to read this [00:41:00] book. Okay. I'm gonna pull that one out. Greatest Salesman in the World.

Steven Ross Raw: By Og Mandino. There are so many other great books, but that one just-- When my Son was in Australia for a year and he was out selling door to door and in front of public markets and it was really hard. I remember pulling out a page from that book and reading it to him. Uh, so I, I s- that's a great book. So you got two, sorry.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Sorry. All right. No, it's good. Um, and then the last question is, if I pulled you out of your comfy little home in Colorado, dropped you off somewhere in the United States where you don't know anybody, you still have all the knowledge you have. You don't have any real money. I give you an allowance just enough to pay your bills and have a little bit towards trying to work through a strategy, and you had to make a million bucks before you can come home and see or talk to your [00:42:00] family. would you do that?

Steven Ross Raw: I just... Am I gonna sell real estate?

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Yes.

Steven Ross Raw: I just knock on doors. I'll just

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Just straight up every single day out there knocking on

Steven Ross Raw: Yeah, 'cause I'll learn the market faster and I will bump into business 'cause I know what to do. I'm just that good at talking to people that I know how to do this and it's just the fastest. It's not that the other things wouldn't work, but like once you know the market, you know, 'cause if you go into a country club and you don't know any of the market, you don't know the market then it's not that you can't be effective but it'd be helpful to do both.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: What about, what about working open houses?

Steven Ross Raw: But no, I just don't like open house, me personally. Remember, I don't work nights or weekends, so I don't wanna do open house on the weekend. But if I had to I, I have done it. But I would knock to promote an open house so that I, there's gonna be more people [00:43:00] there.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Back then they didn't have Fitbands. Uh, any idea how many steps you would take in a day?

Steven Ross Raw: I think I tried to calculated it. Um, I think I walked between two and five miles per day. I think it was like two and a half to five miles per day.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: How many days a week? You did it five days a week? Five

Steven Ross Raw: yeah I get like 120 to 150 days a year. Yeah. It's a lot of days man.

Dino Steven Raw. Final: Yeah. Well, listen, I, uh, thank you for joining us. Thank you for, uh, the book you wrote. I can't wait to, to read it, as well as I'm gonna pick up The Greatest Salesman in the World, so I appreciate that suggestion. Um, and for all you guys listening, if you wanna know more, just go over to dinokatsiametis.com, and you'll be able to get all the show notes and, uh, and all the things we've talked about, the links to the books, and all that.

Uh, in the meantime, I wanna thank you because you guys have really helped this podcast grow a lot more than I ever thought it would. Um, I- and I'm not that kinda guy, 'cause I [00:44:00] always think highly, but this thing actually grew, so really do appreciate you guys. Thank you so much for all the, um, the comments and the likes and just the, uh, the sharing that you do of it.

It means a lot to me. I really appreciate it, and we'll see you on the next one.